#ml writer criticism

[gale-gentlepenguin]

What is your opinion on the comments from the writers about the season 5 finale and the finale itself?

So I should say that the only comments I’ve seen (from the translation ) and this ( post )

My opinion on the writers and their commentary regarding the finale.

I do understand why they did the things they did.

Limited resources and wanting to utilize what they had.

I totally agree with their use of Piano Lucky Charm.

I think the fight the physical fight with Monarch and Bug Noire is phenomenal.

I can tell a Lot of effort went into planning this season out.

And as a Writer I can respect the references, nods, foreshadowing and jokes that were put in.

Fang using Kung fu is a hilarious image and it’s my favorite shot outside of monarch having a piano dropped on him.

People can say they like the ending, and if they do, awesome. I’m glad that you can enjoy this ending that I don’t.

So let’s have that put at the forefront

That is everything positive I have to say regarding the commentary and I will be going into detail on my ‘Problems’ below. And yes I will be getting angry.

(You have been warned)

I absolutely LOATHE their explanation on how they justify their ending.

Everything about it makes them sound pretentious and arrogant. They sound like they think they are being so clever with an ending when the ending is actually a fucking punch to the face of ANYONE that cared about having a resolution to this arc.

If the writers were so keen on having us CARE for Gabriel’s little arc. Why not take that Kwami’s choice special and replace it with a two episode arc of Gabriel, Emilie and co getting the miraculous? They can’t say budget because they could use flashbacks or the re-enactment from Representation.

And my goodness, the mental gymnastics it takes to say “Gabriel put down his other rings which means he lost” NO IT DOESNT. He is making his wish, he won. Why the heck would he need them after?!

“His wish is vague, so we don’t know what he wished for.” I DONT CARE IF HE WISHED FOR FREE ICE CREAM FOR EVERYONE ON EARTH! HE WON BY EVERY METRIC! It’s unsatisfying, it’s gross, and it feels all kinds of wrong to the point that my soul as a writer feels personally insulted.

The arrogant pretentious Pricks don’t even realize they left Ladybug in the losing position once again! She’s going to have to suffer the consequences of the wish. Not the person who died VINDICATED.

In the words of Brooke from one piece

“Death is never an apology.”

But she got the miraculous back? Yea, AFTER the villain got what he wanted. Adrien never finds out about any of this, Marinette is left gaslighting and hiding things from him, just like usual but now MORE people are keeping things from him.

All of this writing just end up with a cool final battle scene and then take a metaphorical dump all over it because their peak in character development is outfit changes.

The ending isn’t unsatisfying because it’s meant to be. It’s unsatisfying because it made 5 seasons of watching ML pointless.

And I didn’t think I could hate the finale more than I do. BUT THE COMMENTARY somehow made it Worse!? I don’t know how the f*** they did it.

But knowing their intent and knowing this ending was always intended makes VOLTRON’s ending SEEM serviceable. And yes I know how bad that sounds and I FUCKING MEAN IT.

[m3nt4llyr4v3d]

I think it’s fascinating how both the narrative and the in-universe magic system punishes only the teenagers for acting terrible and never the adults.

The universe of Miraculous has an evil transformation, for one, and that transformation only starts killing the user if they’re not an adult. If you’re an adult, the universe itself doesn’t really care

And we all know how the narrative treats its teenage antagonists compared to adult antagonists (Chloe’s treatment compared to her father’s/Gabe’s)

I don’t think I’ve seen anything like it before

[motherofplatypus]

The funniest thing about thomas and co watching the finale and explaining stuffs while they're at it is that they made it worse by a long shot. It's like beating a dead bush with a dead horse while digging their own graves.

Explain that Mari is actually aware that Gabe is Monarch? Doesn't explain why she's going to his house without Chat to beat his ass.

Jokingly saying that Jagged's crocodile is important to the fight? Nice joke, but care to explain where this whole Kung Fu trio and pet plot came from?

Said that they had planned that Chat won't be in the final fight with Hawkmoth since the beginning? Good job, his character turned out has always been this worthless.

It was Amelie at the end and Emelie stayed dead? Good to know the last 8 years of her irrelevance actually became irrelevant.

Said it was actually Marinette's win? Of course when the villain finally achieved their goal it is the hero's victory.

They actually believe that Gabe is a hero? Hooray, so glad they actually believe that the terrorist who has no qualms nor remorse for physically and mentally beating his own son that he enslaved for his own business is a hero.

And that's not including how they don't explain how people become Miraculized despite it not being akumatization, or how Lila isn't affected by the nightmare, or why Gabe unified Tikki and Plagg in Deflagration instead of making the wish despite it doesn't requires him to unify them.

And those were from two episodes alone. Imagine if they had to explain other episodes, like Evolution and Derision. How deep can they dig their own grave?

[eddo-tensei]

This will never not make me laugh

In case you don't know what this is, this is all the sightings of Socqueline Wang in Season 5. Aside from her debut, she only had like two cameos before her big moment in Derision's flashback where she turned out to be this super important figure in Marinette's life...and then she just disappears from the season altogether after the flashback is over. Right after we find out how she got suspended, she just stops showing up for the rest of the season. She doesn't even appear in the present of the same episode or even cameo in the background in episodes afterwards. She's just gone. It's like after they showed her getting suspended and this epic farewell scene between her and Marinette where she rips off the Majesta speech from Alya (Because why not steal one more thing from Alya?), they just treat it as though she isn't in Paris anymore even though we saw her two episodes ago still helping her friends. All this does is serve to prove that Socqueline's entire character is just to provide tragedy for Marinette's backstory and nothing else. I can't even say this is salt for Socqueline because this feels like the writers throwing her out as soon as she apparently fulfilled her purpose in showing Marinette having a big sad because of mean old Chloe. She doesn't even appear in the background of Revolution in protest of Chloe, which you think she would considering how much she hated Chloe. It's an instance of them just creating a disposable character purely just to prove a point and instead of keeping her in the cast, they just throw her into the bin because she doesn't serve a purpose anymore. More people hate Chloe now and that's all that matters to the writers. Screw actually developing this character who's supposedly a great figure in one of our main character's lives. As far as the writers are concerned, she already fulfilled her purpose in the narrative and that's infuriating to me because of how utterly manipulative it all comes across as.

Is this irrational? Am I too upset at the treatment of what's basically a minor character in this show? You be the judge.

[ilikekidsshows]

I'm not sure if people still remember but I have always been in the camp that Chloé was a jerk who got what she deserved in the season three finale of Miraculous, a failed hero. When season four first started airing, I also believed that her character regressing in season four could be a reasonable reaction to what she went through in said finale, because she did not have a good time and her lashing out in hurt made sense.

Then season five had the characters talk at length about how Chloé's trauma doesn't excuse her behavior (with Mylène parroting stuff Astruc has said to Chloé fans on twitter if the true source and targets of this part of the episode aren't obvious), in the same season where Chloé traumatizing Marinette is used to excuse Marinette's less likeable behavior. Chloé is made responsible for Marinette's character flaws while also being 100% responsible for her own character flaws when both of their character flaws are stated in-show to be caused by trauma caused by another person. The double standard is obvious.

If I'm going to look at 'Rocketear' and call it out on its character assassination of Nino, I need to look at what the writers did to Chloé and call it out on being the exact same thing. It's not often you see a villain character get character assassinated, but it sure happened here. Chloé might have been a jerk, but she was never whatever seasons 4/5 turned her into.

[haru-rain]

Did the writers of Miraculous Ladybug ever wonder why Chloe is more loved by fans than Lila when they're both "mean" ?

The truth is, the writers only have themselves to blame.

You showed us a vulnerable Chloé. And every time you put her in the spotlight, even when she's acting mean, she has such funny lines that we just want to laugh.

Lila, on the other hand, is never around and when she is, she has such plot armor that you just want to hate her. It's so frustrating to see that everything always works out for her. Even when things don't go her way from the start, they always end up going her way. We can also add to this that nothing cultivates in us empathy for Lila.

[lostinbooks14]

Miraculous: Tales of Ladybug and Chatnoir would've been so much better if the writers gave both Ladybug AND Chatnoir powers essential to defeat an akuma. Imagine,

Ladybug- Creation- The Miraculous Ladybug power which recreates all that shouldn't have, but was, destroyed.

Chat noir- Destruction- The power to purify akumas which allows the weilder to destroy what shouldn't have, but was, created.

Ying and yang, good luck and bad luck, creation and destruction, perfect balance.

They both would've used their powers for good because, as Tikki and Master Fu and all those wise, ancient beings point out, destruction is just as important as creation, dark is just as important as light, bad luck is just as important as good luck (which would've been such a cool theme to dig into but gods forbid the writers ever use this show's full potential).

[new-kit-on-the-block]

Miraculous - The watered-down significance of akumatization

(This is an analysis, but it's also a sort of rant. So there's a lot of text underneath the cut. Just a fair warning.)

I have a problem with the way that the latter seasons of Miraculous handle akumatization.

There's a pretty basic rule of thumb when it comes to writing the bigger moments of your story:

If something is a big deal, let it be a big deal.

Seasons 4 and 5 don't always do that.

Let's take a look at what I mean.

These are screenshots of the three separate occasions that characters have broken out of akumatization in seasons 4 and 5.

Take note of who these characters are and their importance (or lack thereof) to the overall plot.

On the one hand, you have Alya and Nino, the two main characters' respective best friends. It's only natural in a show like this for these two to be strong enough to break out of akumatization, it makes the main characters look like they definitely chose their friends right.

And then you have Alix's Redditor conspiracy-theorist older brother.

Why is he one of the big three who managed such a significant feat like this?

It's not like he's been shown to be particularly strong-willed. In fact, one could argue that he's even less so than most other characters due to how much further he fell into the rabbit hole of Lila's manipulation than anyone else.

His gullibility and irrationality are the entire reason he gets akumatized in the first place.

And he doesn't ever play a significant role after this, either. The only other time that he even had so much as a speaking role was the other time he got akumatized way back in season 1 for not being allowed to sacrifice someone to the Egyptian gods.

Now, these aren't the first times that people have fought back against Hawkmoth while being akumatized. But they are the first times that they've successfully broken out.

Pixelator questioned Hawkmoth's authority over him, and in response, Hawkmoth did something with his hand that started causing physical pain to Pixelator, reinstating his control over his akuma.

The only other time an akuma victim fought back was Robustus, which was a special case because he rebelled against Hawkmoth by using the specific abilities that were granted to him.

Neither of them even tried to escape akumatization.

Akumatization has always been set up as something powerful. Something that takes the worst parts of you and amplifies them to the point of no longer being capable of rational thought.

We never end up questioning why people don't try to resist akumatization if they know that they might end up hurting people. We already know the answer. It's because they can't.

Even Ms. Bustier, possibly the character who hated akumatization the most at the time, couldn't avoid becoming akumatized despite her best efforts.

So three separate people breaking free from their akumatization should imply that Gabriel's control over his victims is getting weaker, which would be a very big deal.

But nothing is ever done with that. After Alix's brother, nobody ever broke out of akumatization again. The ability to do so is used as nothing more than a plot device in these few episodes.

Another thing is that, if anything, Gabriel's grasp over his victims' emotional state should be even stronger.

His akumas are canonically more powerful than before, to make the lucky charms that Ladybug hands out stop working against him.

If bigger and more powerful akumas don't make his hold on people even stronger than before, then the entire arc of Ladybug realizing that she can create charms to prevent people from being akumatized more than once, and Hawkmoth's counter-arc of nullifying her efforts by simply creating bigger akumas was all just a complete waste of time.

After Guiltrip, I assumed that they were building up to Rose being able to break out of akumatization through her naturally positive nature alone, and then they would have an arc of her teaching others how to do the same.

Suffice to say, neither of those things happened.

Rose's "inner voice" that she's apparently had in her head this entire time doesn't serve any actual purpose other than to make her worthy of the pig miraculous.

To be clear: I don't have any issues with Rose's invisible illness never being mentioned at any point before Guiltrip. That's the entire point of an invisible illness.

My point is that Rose's ability to break free from negative emotion-based mind control is an extremely important ability that was never even so much as hinted at before or even brought up again any time after Guiltrip.

So, once again, it's just an extremely important one-off ability that doesn't matter and doesn't affect the stakes whatsoever.

These seasons keep throwing moments at us that should be very big deals but are never treated as such.

Now let's compare all of this to an actually good akumatization-related scene.

When Chloe successfully rejected akumatization.

When this happened, it was huge, and it felt like it too.

Not just because of how impressive the feat itself was, but also because of where Chloe was in her character arc.

Chloe was under the impression that Ladybug might never let her be Queen Bee again. Full stop.

She had potentially permanently lost a privilege that really mattered to her, Lila was starting to get inside her head, and she was becoming mean to Sabrina again.

By all accounts, Chloe should've been in the stage of her arc where she started to revert back to her old self. The old Chloe would've accepted Hawkmoth's words without a second thought.

If this was the conventional Zuko-style arc that so many writers try and fail to replicate, this would've been the scene where it seems like she may not actually get redeemed, and would fall back on old patterns of hers. Which is an interesting enough arc on its own.

But we instead have a girl who doesn't have any way of truly knowing better, has no good role models, and is close only to people who enable her worst behaviors. And she chooses to be good.

Her worst fears are starting to come true, nobody seems to have any care or respect for her, and a smarter and more experienced grown man is using all of these negative emotions against her to mind control her. And she still chooses to trust the process and work to gain back Ladybug's trust. Exactly like Ladybug told her to.

The one time she was given really good advice, it stuck with her.

This is the moment that flat-out confirms that Chloe can be redeemed, and actively wants to be better.

Not only did she not get akumatized, she almost made it look easy.

But the show still makes it perfectly clear that this wasn't an easy feat by any means.

She was visibly exhausted and scared after the akuma left, breathing heavily like she almost just drowned.

But the important part is that she did it. She didn't get akumatized. And she is shown to be rightfully proud of this fact.

It's also interesting to note that no other character has ever broken out of akumatization, mid-akumatization.

In the seasons to come, several people would be breaking out of akumatization after they had already been akumatized. But Chloe is the first, and only, person to reject akumatization before it even took hold.

That's how you give a moment like this the emotional weight that it deserves, by letting it stand on its own and not bombarding your audience with the same scene played out by several other characters.

Chloe was the only one to do this, and that shows that she could bring something special to the team if she actually got the chance to be a heroine again. It makes us consider the possibility that her stubborn and argumentative nature might actually end up being a silver lining. She can still be herself while saving people. In her own way.

She can be a hero. She can become a better person. And she doesn't have to change a thing about herself.

It would be a really nice message to send.

Which just makes it all the more disappointing when it doesn't amount to anything.

If the point of her character was that she could've been better, but became worse instead, that would've made for an interesting sort of tragedy.

But that's not what it is. I know that's not what the writers intended because if that were the case, then Ladybug would've probably had some lines about how much potential Chloe had, and how well she was doing before she went back to her old self.

We don't get any of that. What we get instead is the show and characters acting like Chloe was always as bad as she is in seasons 4 and 5.

She never actually liked Adrien. She was never kind to her father or Sabrina. She never wanted to get better.

And that's just not true.

Sorry, the main point of this post was to showcase the difference between important moments that were given the appropriate emotional weight, and those that weren't. But I just went off on a bit of a tangent there.

God. Even when this show gets something right, it gets like ten other things wrong.

Anyway, TDLR: If you want a moment to be significant, let it be significant. Let it make big changes that actually matter. Don't be a coward who's too afraid to change the hierarchy of your story in any kind of way that matters.

If you want a moment to have an impact on your audience, give it time to breathe on its own, and don't repeat it for at least a little while after.

And for God's sake, if an ability is a big deal, then don't let some unimportant side character that no one cares about also have that ability. It just makes it seem like it's not.

[xhanisai]

You can talk about how much you enjoyed the film without bashing the show and you can talk about how much you love the show without bashing the films.

Of course, everyone has the right to voice their opinions and express that they disliked this or that.

But you look hella stupid when you're making ignorant takes and saying stuff like "omg astruc's writing is so shit lollllll love the film" or "the film gives us what WE want unlike the show lollll"

Both are different with their own sets of restrictions and budgets and having different creative teams and direction. The show is still ongoing and has not finished whilst the film can only rely on becoming a hit so that they can continue and flesh out the story in sequels.

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

Adrien is Marinette's Therapist, NOT her Boyfriend and it's Gross

Mental health struggles are no joke and, if you have those struggles, then you absolutely need a partner who will support you through them. That's why, at face value, Adrien supporting Marinette with her PTSD and anxiety is very sweet. It's what a good boyfriend should do. The problem is that Adrien is being written like her therapist, not her boyfriend.

Adrien has his own struggles with depression, loss, and paternal neglect. Yet none of these struggles are brought up once Adrien and Marinette get together. Instead, the relationship is all about her needs and struggles even though this season ends with Gabriel's take down, meaning that focusing on Adrien's issues would have made more sense from a narrative perspective. How much more powerful would the final have been if Marinette really understood Adrien, Emilie, and Gabriel's relationship?

But why do that when we can make everything about Adrienette instead? Why bother to mention Emilie when Marinette is a much better point of conflict between Adrien and Gabriel? After all, if we did that, then Adrien would have a life outside of Marinette and that would be, well, sigh, let's get into it, shall we?

In Derision, we learn that Marinette apparently doesn't have some form of anxiety or ADHD or any of the other things that people have theorized over the years. No, vanilla-Marinette is a totally relaxed, go-with-the-flow non-planner who only started planning after Chloe, Sabrina, and Kim gave her PTSD. Does this insult her character and make no sense? Yes, but let's not get into that. Let's just accept the retcon and look at the fallout of Adrien knowing that his new girlfriend has massive trauma that's mainly focused on romance and controlling situations.

The very next episode is Intuition. In it we see Marinette calling Adrien to show off her ability to do things without planning (or, at least, with less planning) and it's clear from context that this is an exercise that they're doing:

Adrien: Well... (his phone rings) Fancy that! Marinette! I like spending time with Marinette. (picks up his phone) Marinette: (on-call) Guess what I'm calling for: nothing! Can you believe it? I'm calling you randomly, totally out of the blue, for no reason at all! Adrien: So you didn't write down everything you might need to say to me based on everything I might say to you? Marinette: Not at all! Well... I did. I really tried not to, you know, but it was too hard! Anyhow, I limited myself to fourteen possible conversations, including this one! Adrien: Congratulations! Marinette: (on-call) Thank you! Adrien: And did you prepare questions for science class? Marinette: (on-call) Not-a-one! Not even for the live video conference we're doing with Max's mom on the super awesome Tsurugi space jet! I, Marinette, will improvise questions, unpredictably, without planning anything!

In the context of the show, this conversation is deeply concerning and I don't know wtf the writers think they're doing. There is no way in hell that a 14-year-old should be guiding his girlfriend through a therapy session or therapy exercise unless he has the guidance and approval of a trained mental health professional.

Seriously look at what Adrien is doing in this dialogue: Marinette tells him that she's called him without planning and he doesn't just say "that's great!" Instead, he asks if that's true, congratulates her for her mild improvement, and then prompts her to talk about another situation where she would plan things out. In other words, he's asking about the therapy homework that he's clearly given her or that they've decided on together. It's also clear that this isn't their first discussion on the topic because he's very comfortable knowing what to ask about to see if she's done her homework right.

Why was this homework chosen? Who knows! It certainly wasn't picked by someone with training! A therapist wouldn't tell you to avoid planning for a school assignment (something that we've never seen Marinette overplan before, but once again, we're ignoring the retcon). This scene would arguably be inappropriate for an established adult relationship, but a nascent teenage one? Absolutely not.

My SO and I have both done therapy and seen wildly unbalanced relationships. This conversation threw massive red flags for us on both fronts. This is not what a healthy relationship looks like. This is not a give and take. This is why you need a therapist to at least guide you through this type of situation or you will set yourself up in roles where person A is not getting their needs met because the relationship has an established dynamic where person A is the giver and person B is the taker.

This is especially true for a young relationship that's just getting its feet off of the ground. They're supposed to be in the honeymoon phase! More established relationships are better able to handle phases where one person needs more support than the other which absolutely happens and is totally normal. However, when those things happen, it's vital for the supporting partner to have their own support since they can't get it from their partner.

Miraculous denies Adrien this suport. In the very next episode, we get this:

Adrien: I've always seen Marinette acting funny in my presence. I thought that was just the way she was. I thought it was sweet. I thought it was just her charm. But now that I know it's because she loves me and she freaks out about telling me, I feel bad. Because it means that this whole time she's been uncomfortable around me, and I haven't done anything to help her. Kagami: But you didn't know. Adrien: It doesn't take away from her suffering. I just wish she could feel more at ease when she's with me. Otherwise, one day, it'll be too late and she'll give up. Kagami: What can I do to help, Adrien? Adrien: Thanks, but it's not up to you or anyone else to help. I'm the one who's gotta do something.

No! Adrien, you are not equipped to deal with this solo. Ask Kagami to help! Ask Alya to help! Ask Marinette's parents to help! There are times when it's okay to involve others in your relationship and this is one of those times! This isn't even a relationship issue! It's a mental health issue! I know we're flipping gender roles here, but it's not somehow cute or healthy just because a guy is trying to "fix" the girl for once. No one should try to take on that task. This is what therapy is for.

If therapy is not an option for financial or other reasons, then yes, sometimes you have to struggle through and loved ones can help, but in TV land? Especially aimed-at-kids TV land? Show the ideal scenario! At the very least, show a support network! And I mean actual support, not Kagami asking to help and Adrien shooting her down! Writers, you are making Gabriel's dislike of Marinette valid! You are making it so that she is dragging Adrien down! Stop doing that!

Adrien deserves love and support, too. Adrien deserves to be romanced. Adrien deserves more than a kiss and an "I love you" that he had to fight to hear! He never even gets one of the presents from Marinette's chest. She did more to woo him before they got together and it's such pathetic writing.

The fun of getting these two together is letting them do all the stuff they've always wanted to do! Let Marinette bring him macrons! Let him bring her roses! Let her enhance his wardrobe! Let him write her poems! Let them be a healthy, balanced, sickeningly-cute couple! It's fine if she's nervous at the start and takes a while to act normal, but this show takes it to a level beyond teenage jitters and it's not funny or cute. It's concerning.

All of these issues start with Derision's romance-based-PTSD retcon and it was the worst thing they could have done for the Love Square. It poisons the rest of the season and is why I just can't ship these two in canon even though I love what they could have been. They have established such a horrifically unhealthy dynamic that I can't see this ending well unless they get couple's therapy in the very near future and that's not even touching on the baggage that will come from the lies and still unresolved Ladynoir trauma.

As soon as Marinette has romance-based PTSD, she was incapable of being in a relationship until after she'd learned to manage her PTSD. (PTSD cannot be cured, btw, you just learn how to manage it and the symptoms can lessen.) The writers apparently knew that. It's why they gave her a therapist to support her as she worked through her issues and got to the point where she can say "I love you". His name is Adrien. Isn't he cute?

[m3nt4llyr4v3d]

Extreme Adrien salters and Marinette salters aren’t even two sides of the same coin, at this point they’re the exact same side

Both say that their characters are victims of terrible writing, and yet can’t extend that to the other half, their terrible writing is just their character, or rather “____ is the writer’s darling!”

The problem is both Adrien and Marinette (and everyone else but this is about these two) are victims of terrible writing. Not only that, but their bad writing tend to negatively affect the other, and every other character, like the densest black hole trapping everyone within its field. Both need to stay in the molds the writers made for them, and the second they try to expand from that? The literal universe punishes them (ex. Marinette being pushed to be into Adrien from all sides even when she’s trying to move on and Adrien destroying everything the second he finds out anything about his family)

Taking some time away from the show and coming back to look at it from a more overall critical view has shown me how often the writing is literally fighting itself right in front of you. And it’s still losing

[motherofplatypus]

An idea that i don't see people talk about is Chloe being Adrien's sister figure. She had mommy issue earlier than Adrien, then when Emilie was dead, she felt unconscious responsibility to protect and take care of him. All of her affections are all platonic. That's why she hates when Adrien having new friends, bcs they took him away from her. Like, imagine if Chloe has brother complex.

I swear there's a lot that can be explored from their relationship if the writers aren't cementing themselves in "Make everything about Adrienette" and "Adrien is a damsel in distress".

Sigh, another day another wasted potential the show had.

[gryficowa]

Watching videos commenting on miracolous episodes talking about racism is interesting (Especially when I'm older than when I watched them + I'm European, specifically Polish)

Note, if you are outraged by Chloe's defense, I'm sorry, but Europe and the US don't really have the same approach (Which can be frustrating for non-white Europeans)

First of all, the text about sushi… Sushi was created in China and then came to Japan, which means that this particular text by Chloe is not entirely racist, I know, shocking, but Thomas didn't do his homework before writing the episode, so it came out strangely

As for Chloe confusing a Chinese with a Japanese, unfortunately I have an explanation, it is related to the fact that in Europe they speak collectively, i.e. "Asian", so yes, if we assume that Chloe only dealt with Japanese, and not Chinese, it was unconsciously confuses them with each other (I remind you, this is Europe, not the USA, here the topic of racism is more complicated), anyway, I don't believe that she's the only one who confuses Asians with each other, because we're talking about Europe, where such confusion is more "Normal" (however it sounds), why is she the only one? Why don't any adults do this? This is unrealistic and distorts the reality in Europe

Besides, the very fact that the series is written by a Frenchman who has no clue about racism says a lot, hello, you live in a country where Muslims are persecuted (There is a ban on wearing hijabs), so what more can I say about all this?

It's unrealistic that only Chloe confuses a Chinese and a Japanese with each other, older generations should also have a problem with it, because the action takes place in Europe, not in the USA, plus, older generations are more racist than the younger ones (Because the younger ones have access to for information), so it doesn't make sense that none of the adults are racist, Thomas, do you know what country you live in?

So yes, taking the action in France, i.e. Europe, in practice made Chloe's racism seem even more strange, because they could make it seem that she is not the only person in the whole country who has a problem with it, but it is known that Thomas Astruc prefers to pretend, that in his country and in the whole of Europe racism does not happen (And only a white fourteen-year-old child is the only racist… Yes, it sounds bad)

Europe is not the USA, you could have searched the Internet for information about current acts of racism in your country or Europe itself to present them in your series, but you decided to do something that makes no sense because of the place of action which is France, it looks so unrealistic, when you are European and you know the approach of people from Europe, antagonizing Chloe for racism when she is a fourteen-year-old living in Europe (where such racism is more common, because it is not the USA), to punish her for… As a European, she does not have an attitude like Americans and she took bad examples from adult Europeans

Thomas' attitude towards Chloe is even worse for this reason, he forgets that children are not born racist, they acquire this through adults, the Internet and other media (Like the news), throwing Chloe on the pile for being racist is harmful, yes, we should talk about racism and fight it, but hate a child for being a racist, because adults taught her that? A child's mind is still developing, it shouldn't be done, educating children is necessary, so Thomas, you fucked up the whole series

As a European, I have more reason to criticize this series for how it ignores the very topic of racism in Europe in order to antagonize a child (Fictional, but a child), if you want to show racism, then use information about it, not create worse versions of racism from the 70s -those from America

I had to describe it because it's frustrating how Americans hate Chloe for racism and they have no idea what it looks like in Europe, instead of bashing Thomas for showing racism in such an unrealistic way, they attack a fourteen-year-old cartoon girl, it's fucked up on many levels

Thomas doesn't know anything about racism, especially in Europe, if he did, only Adrien and Marinette would know it's racism, and the adults, including Chloe, wouldn't see it as a problem because they're fucking adult Europeans and we have unrealistic shit that pretends to be that it is progressive because it talks about racism, but the truth is that there is nothing there, no realism in this topic (Compare to US productions from the 70's, even they did it better…), this episode would be better if it showed real racism, and not the one just to show how stupid Chloe is -_-

Yes, I had to get this out of the way because a lot of people in the fandom are Americans and they look at Chloe from an American perspective, the problem is that Chloe is not American, she is French and that changes the perspective, yes, racism is bad, but remember that in Europe operates on different levels and Thomas Astruc presented it so badly that if you are from Europe, you it hurts

[ilikekidsshows]

hey I figure that you’re probably tired of talking about the Sentimonster nonsense but I genuinely still can’t stand that it’s an actual thing. The wildest thing about it is that I JOINED the fandom because of the Sentimonster theory, actually got excited for it and looked forward to hints, not believing the skeptics or the salters bc it didn’t seem like such a big deal—that is until I saw with my own eyes how SO MANY FANS said with their whole chest that, in “Ephemeral” Adrien HAD to be a Sentimonster or there was no other “sympathetic explanation” for why he didn’t de-akumatize himself or fight off Gabriel.

Seeing the victim blaming in real time was such a punch in the gut—and then they just kept on coming!! It finally hit me how damaging the entire thing because for the show as a whole. If even regular fans that weren’t even known for salting could so willingly disregard and ignore genuine abuse coping mechanisms in favor of magical BS… it was such a dark time. Abuse Apologism and victim blaming in a whole package

Sometimes, when I write about Miraculous, I pretend I'm writing about a show that only had three seasons. That's what the "zagulous fandom" tag is for; it's for posts that are about the parts of Miraculous that had Zag's executive control keeping Astruc in check. I also kinda accepted long ago that my blog's kind of a support blog for people who are against the Sentihuman concept.

When I first heard of the expanded Sentimonster theory, the one that went "all the rich kids are Sentimonsters", I instantly went: "You do realize how making victims of child abuse nonhumans with questionable rights minimizes their victimhood and excuses their abusers, right?" people told me I was making stuff up and whoopsie doo, the writers did exactly that.

Neither Gabriel nor Tomoe faced any consequences for abusing Adrien and Kagami because, after all, since they're Sentimonsters, the real abuse was that they didn't have their Amoks so giving them their Amoks resolves all their problems. The only abusive parent who gets acknowledged as such is Félix's dad, who is dead by the time we hear about any of this, because we can't have abusive parents face consequences for their actions because that might upset people or whatever excuses Astruc's giving for Gabriel's vindication now.

This also minimises all the affects of the abuse on the kids, since they can be handwaved away with: "They were just programmed that way." Kagami's bad social skills aren't because her mother isolated her, it's because she forgot to program Kagami with those skills. Félix's villainous behavior isn't because his mother is overly permissive with him, he was just programmed that way (by the eeeeevil Colt). Adrien isn't a people pleaser because he's repeating his abuse coping mechanisms with his overly controlling girlfriend to keep her happy the same way he did to his overly controlling father, he was just programmed to be the perfect doting son and boyfriend.

You'll notice how neatly this ties into the crew denying that Chloé was abused in any way ever by her clearly abusive mother. Chloé wasn't made into a Sentimonster, so we can't have her bad coping with her abuse be excused by "Sentimonster programming", so now the writers are just gaslighting the audience and saying: "Chloé wasn't mistreated by her parents which caused her to act to out to get attention (which she literally stated to be her motive in season 3), in fact, she's the one who's been terrorizing her poor, innocent father and he needs to be protected from this naturally occuring evil hellspawn."

All child abuse in this show gets excused.

Of course, now the writers have an added reason to make sure Adrien's abuse gets excused in particular: because they made Marinette benefit from it. As I said, Adrien is repeating abuse coping mechanisms learned from dealing with his father to keep Marinette happy. He's always prioritizing her feelings and never brings up his own problems, and this is good for Marinette, because she can just enjoy having a perfect boyfriend who caters to her every need and doesn't have problems of his own or with the ways she treats him (for all she knows). She's even maintaining this status quo by lying about Gabriel to Adrien, so Adrien won't get upset (and have emotional needs that she would need to help him with). Either we have to excuse Adrien's abuse, or we have to admit Marinette is benefitting from the fact that Adrien was abused, and even taking advantage with the way she makes no effort to improve their communication on her end, preferring to spy on Adrien and lie to him instead of just talking to him like an equal.

The show writers are also allergic to following through on their creative decisions, is what I think. They put all these different victims of child abuse and neglect in the show, and then dehumanized these children in different ways so that they wouldn't actually need to say anything about that abuse they wrote in and they can instead pretend it was never there. This is why I also think that, no matter how much the show's defenders insist the story isn't over yet, we will never be getting a proper resolution to the Sentinonsense.

[gale-gentlepenguin]

What's your opinion on the show's overall disrespect for Cat Noir?

I feel that’s an inaccurate assessment. Because Cat noir isn’t disrespected, at least not in the sense that I’m thinking.

It’s more that Cat noir/Adrien was sidelined for the sake of keeping Marinette the main focus.

The problem being that Gabriel is the main antagonist. This has Adrien linked to basically everything. But he is not the main protagonist, he is the deuteragonist. So how can Marinette/Ladybug continue to be the main character when all the plot points seem to revolve around Adrien?

Simple, push him to the side and keep him in the dark. This makes it so even though nearly everything could be connected to Adrien, he isn’t at the center, he is left a naive good boy. Meanwhile Marinette is learning about the guardians, learning all the truths, taking charge. All to cement that She is the protagonist. She’s the main character.

That’s why Adrien can’t learn the truth, it’s why he can never learn their identities, because the moment it happens, Adrien’s narrative claim hast been revealed.

Now, with Good writing Adrien could still stay as the deuteragonist while having this claim to the narrative. But it’s clear that writers don’t believe that as they want to keep him as the Damsel/Dude in distress that needs to be saved.

Which if done right isn’t a bad thing, if Adrien was actively investigating his family and slowly learning secrets WHILE Marinette was getting her guardian duty on, that would have been fascinating! That would have caused a natural divide where both characters have a focus yet still had agency.

But the writers wanted the final battle to be between Monarch and bug noire. So they worked backwards and that’s how you get this situation.

It fell victim to a style of writing not that uncommon among fanfic writers. Wanting to have a REALLY cool scene and trying to write to get to it.

So to get to your question. It’s not that Adrien/Cat noir is disrespected. It’s more of the writers didn’t really know how to write him in the narrative. His character is good, but to fit their vision they didn’t use him. Which if you consider disrespect, then yes, he has been greatly disrespected.

For me though, he isn’t disrespected, the writers writing him just failed him.

[haru-rain]

I've just watched the interview with the Miraculous ladybug writers about the end of season 5…

Omg I feel like such a clown !

In fact, I realize that the whole Gabriel thing is just an excuse to have a guy who makes a wish that will change the world for the better. In the interview, they say "what we wanted to tell is a revolution of the mind".

But if you're willing to say anything to get to that end, it's normal to end up with a lot of problematic stuff.

The writers also refer to Gabriel as a hero : "He (Gabriel) said to himself, yes, for the sake of my child, I'm ready to give up all this power with which I can do anything I want, but I can't make my child happy" "Which makes Gabriel one of the heroes of Miraculous".

As if all the harm he caused had miraculously disappeared because he helped create this new world lol