#ml writers suck

[m3nt4llyr4v3d]

Most pointless episode in Miraculous by far, imo, is Ephemeral. You might think it’s the fillers, or the boring episodes, but no, this episode left me feeling the most hollow

Why?

Well every single thing that happened in that episode could’ve and should’ve been prevented by one inclusion: Luka.

You know, the boy who literally found out Ladybug and Cat Noir’s identities beforehand, and whose inclusion in the plot makes me frustrated to no end because why isn’t he doing anything?? Why is he going along with this when he already knows??? Just lie and say you’ve already traveled back and got the info, or travel back anyways when Ladybug wasn’t responding which you should’ve assumed would happen because you know exactly who she’s looking at right now! Why was he even there at all???? The entire episode is rendered void because of the circumstances of him being there, and not a single episode had gotten me that upset before (some have come veeeeerry close)

(I’m hoping the episodes were out of order, or it was established that Ephemeral took place at an earlier date than Wishmaker and I end up looking like an absolute fool, I’d rather have that than a gaping hole of a plot)

[iwasbored777]

Now you're gonna call me mean and idc you should but I'm glad that now I see people actually complaining about how toxic F*ligami is cuz when I was complaining most of them said I'm just biased and they romanticised it but this ship couldn't be worse I don't know what the writers were smoking so I'm glad to see other people pointing out how wrong everything about it actually is

[mystic-myrtille]

What are your thoughts on Felix being redeem?

.... I'd hardly even consider Felix's arc a redemption arc.

First off, it just proofs to me how blatantly misogynistic the writers are by "redeeming" yet another male character who has done bad things in the past without suffering from any real consequences they'd deserve while still pretending that the female baddies like Chloe, Lila and Audrey's only personality trait is evil. It's just right in your face, the writers aren't even trying to hide it. Peak misogyny

Now coming back to Felix specifically, where was the moment he started to question the bad thing he had done? When did he show remorse? When did he decided to actively change and work on himself to become a better person? Where was any of that?

He had sexually harassed Ladybug and has never said anything how he shouldn't have done that or apologized. He never had a moment where he questioned if maybe it's a bad thing that he didn't tell anyone, especially Adrien, the truth about Gabriel. He never thought about how him giving Monarch 16 miraculouses in exchange for 1 might kind of count as helping a terrorist. He had teamed up with be big bad evil more than with the heroes of the show and he hasn't questioned his morality. A. Single. Fucking. Time. Therefore he didn't do anything to deserve forgiveness from Ladybug. Heck, he didn't even ask for forgiveness. Where is the redemption???

And the writers excuse it with "oh he actually has a different goal because he really cares about sentibeings and wants to free them all!! What an amazing guy!!" ... So? Just because he had two angsty scenes with sentimonsters being treated bad suddenly makes him good? That's what would convince LB and CN to welcome him into their team? You expect me to buy that?

Like that's a general problem with the show. There's no structure anywhere, characters have relationships with each other that don't allign with their back story or other aspects of their relationship because nothing is properly built up. It's just random shit happening that doesn't fit together. Felix's character is all over the place and I really don't know what he is supposed to be? I'll give him credit for getting shit done and actually doing something to move the Agreste plot (which is really a thing Adrien should do if the writers weren't so obsessed with going helicopter parent with him). When he's on screen, there's progression that the show normally lacks. But he didn't have a redemption arc.

He just hooked up with Kagami bc sentimonster support each other and now bc Kagami trusts him Ladybug has to do as well. Because why give male characters a challenge and make them work hard to be worthy of Ladybugs trust?

[coffeebanana]

from now on if you're going to reply to my speculation posts with negativity you're getting blocked because i don't have time for the salt i just want to enjoy my silly little show (affectionate)

[wolflover2426]

I still think one of the worst things Miraculous Ladybug did is retcon the lucky charms that prevent anyone from being akumatized ever again. Like, it would have been more fun to have different akumas that aren’t the same characters we all know already and instead they decide, “You know what, the lucky charm is too op. Give villain a power up to counter it,” thus rendering the lucky charm obsolete.

They could have at least let Ladybug make the charm stronger and resistant to the powered up akuma (I refuse to call them megakuma, the name sounds dumb) and it would be an endless back and forth of these two strengthening their power to counter each other and it would have been more entertaining than what we have gotten.

[tex-now]

New challenge. Watch Guilt Trip Of ML Season 4.

I did?? Like a while ago?? Did you not read the disclaimer orrrr

Also. In all seriousness. Guilt Trip also isn't done very well in terms of dealing with a character having a disability, with it being like "yeah, she doesn't NEED all this help even though she has a disability cause disabled people aren't fragile and helpless" which is a good message but it's not done well. And it also just makes Marinette look like more of an ass in retrospect because she was only willing to accommodate rose cause they're ~friends~ and rose is good so she can't be lying about her disability! Unlike that super liar Lila who is definitely lying >:( because she's evil >:( (and yes she was lying and the only reason why is so Marinette can have an excuse for her horrible behavior)

Also juleka tells rose's secret without her consent to the entire class (not cool) and rose is also a common archetype of a character who "has a disability but that won't stop me from living life to the fullest!" Except it's only brought up in this episode and never acknowledged again because MLB doesn't know how to write characters with disabilities.

Oh and also they do that stupid thing where they only really focus on how sad their poor loved one must be, having to worry about them all the time :( /s which is a very common and quite ignorant thing that always happens when writing disabled characters.

It's not a good episode. Like. At all. The only thing it does is make Marinette look like the worst type of ableist person and prove that the writers should not be allowed to touch this topic ever again.

I'll be honest I don't think it's marinette or juleka's fault that they do such fucked up things because it's obvious that the writers are trying to frame their actions in the right and act like what they're doing isn't fucked up.

The problem is the writing not the characters themselves. Their personalities get pushed and pulled in the direction that the plot needs to move forward. I know I sound like I think Marinette sucks but it's not her it's her writing. Does that make sense

Edit: Juleka actually only told Marinette and Adrien about rose, so she didn't tell the whole class, it was Marinette who had notified everyone of rose's condition, contrary to what i remembered. Apologies on my part

[pruneunfair]

Women who deserve better, both in story and writting. *Spoiler warning*

Isabella de Mare

Shes who I think of when someone asks me which character has the most wasted potential. She's a horrible human being with no other qualities but that was fine because she was set up at first as this conniving mastermind behind it all, her whole monologe about not putting all your faith in men was pretty badass and she even knew Ceasre would fall out of love with her eventually, girl just wanted that power. Unfortunately authors didn't want her to be smarter or even as smart as the FL so they dumbed her down into a spoiled green tea bitch with a low intelligence stat.

Rhyse Sinclair

Honestly she's one of the better green tea women I've seen, I like that instead of her immediately trying to mess with Edith she's trying to be her friend and actually does a good job playing the role of the sweet saint while dropping hints of her new rotten nature. I think she was originally a sweet girl who wanted the best for Edith until the Author started to influence her more and more.

Iris Van Conrad

Correct me if I get something wrong cause i just started reading this one. While Iris is annoying and just the typical punching bag designed for the FL to basically say "I'm not like other girls." I kind of pity her, she's getting humiliated every which way. In the beginning the FL pours wine on her for insulting her dress and a comment said that was classy? That's literally the opposite of how to handle a situation with class, she's not hard to dislike but not hard to like either, I want to hope she'll become a real threat but it's unlikely

Rashta Ishka

Ah, the iconic Rashta and probably one of the most famous green tea bitches. This girl was done dirty by both the story and the writting. She's the anti-sue to Naviers Mary sue. She was a slave sold by her father, was taken advantage of by one of her masters and got pregnant, her child was then taken from her by her master and he gave her a dead baby he claimed was hers and that's only a slice of what she goes through.

Nobody really likes her, she's regarded as a stupid slave who barges in on the empress, Sovieshu happily takes advantage of her to try to make Navier jealous and her only friend is manipulating her into ruin, all while any chance at her being complex is destroyed by the writers who turn her from a smart grey character/Villainess to another wicked punching bag to be used as a stepping stone for Navier and Heinrey.

Aisha

Basically Rashta but even worse. She never succeeds in any of her plans or schemes and is always one step behind the girlboss protagonist Robelia. Aisha exists to be the "other girl" fans can make fun of. The moment the protagonist shows up, the ML (who I'd beg to differ is the sole conflict and not her) ditches her to be with Robelia now that's she's "interesting" leaving Aisha to basically throw childish tantrums as she fails to be better than the FL and worse yet, the writer justifies Alexandros cheating and is viewed as misunderstood while Aisha still a pick me concubine who's only personality is trying and failing to win over Alexandros.

Minthe

The only one who's not from a manhwa. Minthe is proof to me that no one on webtoon really cares if your a mistress just as long as your the protagonist. She is one of the few character in lore olympus written with acknowledged flaws and reasons to be upset, Hades gets in an emotional affair with Persephone and apparently she's evil for not sucking it up and being reasonably upset, she's often a victim of prejudice by the other characters and is literally called "nymph trash". Even the fans would ridicule her for being upset and getting in the way of the creepy ship between Hades and Persephone to the point of bodyshaming her and being overly happy when Persephone turned her into a plant. In the end Minthe gets a half-assed arc and leaves the story forever.

Diane Poitier

One of the other well written women in historical manhwas. She's treated pretty badly by everyone including her brother and the Emperor who she tries desperately to keep by her side and she wrongfully takes it out on the protagonist Adelheid but whats different between her and other concubines in other media, Diane was there before Adelheid so it gave a reason why she was defensive (not an excuse but a reason). Seeing her break down when Adelheid actually cared about her broke my heart and really showed just how little worth outside of the Emperor she really has for herself and makes some pretty nice character development for herself and died realizing she blamed her problems on the wrong person.

[neerons]

Hi! How are you doing? I wanted to ask if you know some stories that are similar to MK. It can be another game, manga/webtoon, or even movies/series/dramas. I want to read or watch a similar story with an interesting plot and deep stories, but not too complicated. The storyline has to be logical/coherent and well written. The characters must be strong and have interesting personalities, good developments and if possible, good relationships too. I don't have a particular theme in mind, but I'd like some romance in the story (the two lovers are equals). If you have some recommendations or if someone else has some stories to share, I'm interested! Thank you ❤️

Hi! I'm very good thank you. I hope you're doing well too ❤

I'm not going to help out much when it comes to other games, webtoons, movies or series as what I play, read or watch in these categories don't really fit Masquerade Kiss' universe.

Anyone is welcome to leave recommendations as well. Try to tag @ himawari ⬆ for visibility so your comment can be seen

MK is pretty unique so not everything I recommend is even 50% close to being similar to MK, so I mostly rely on core details that match.

However when it comes to mangas/animes, there are ones I can instantly think about, and some others that have similarities as well. Some of them don't involve romance but I tried to think of ones who do.

Black Butler

If you're looking for something similar to Kei's route, let me introduce you to my favorite anime and manga ✨ Black Butler/Kuroshitsuji ✨

It doesn't involve the romance you're looking for, but the story is deep, linked to religion and a sexy demon butler, with one of the main characters (Ciel) having a very similar past to Kei. It's actually the only one I can think of that is so similar to MK overall, but it's definitely darker.

It involves the same things we see in Kei's route in general: rejection of religious faith, demons (but here an actual one), philosophy about what being a human is, child abuse in a religious setting, being left as an orphan, and another thing very similar to Kei that I will not spoil as it is a big plot twist in the manga. (But tbh I wouldn't be surprised if the writer in charge of Kei got inspired by Black Butler)

(However, keep in mind that if you watch the anime, you need to look up the episodes that are adapted from the manga so the plot stays coherent (the anime has some parts of S1 and S2 that were invented, and you should avoid watching those, unless you want to, if you want to understand the actual plot)

The Apothecary Diaries

The romance is not completely established yet even in the manga, as it is slow burn. However the FL is extremely interesting and strong, intelligent as well as very funny. The ML is equally as good, and both have a very interesting relationship.

I recommend this one especially for the "equals" part you're looking for, but the era they're in in this universe doesn't fit MK's. But the story is quite deep and not that hard to understand

Spy x Family

This one is linked to spies and assassins, and family life in general in a cold war setting. I realize as I'm writing this just how much I suck at doing these masterpieces justice btw.

Anyway, the characters are extremely good. The story, with all its comedy and funny moments, is also quite profound as you have characters start to understand what love is (kind of similar to MK as well in this aspect?) and well, it's about ✨ spies ✨ I like to compare the MK Boss and Twilight (the ML) as they're incredible at their work.

The romances are not well established as well in this one but they're slowly building.

The era is also a bit different, but it's not too shocking

Kaguya-sama: Love is War

This one is also a funny one. The FL and ML and side characters are all amazing and well written. It's an elite high school setting. It's not dark like the others ones I've mentioned and is more of a comfort anime/manga.

I think the characters' banter can be similar to what we're used to see in MK, and it's a lovely, although frustrating at times, slow burn

7th Time Loop: The Villainess enjoys a carefree life married to her worst enemy!

I almost tired my fingers out typing that title, but this anime has a really good romance with a very independent, strong, intelligent and capable FL, with a strong, cold but actually tender ML.

Not the same era as MK again, but it's another one with both leads being equally as good and having a good relationship (although it's not easy at first). The FL's belief in justice and her kindness are also similar to our lovely MK MC as well.

I don't know if you have already watched or read those, but that's mostly what I could think of. Sadly, I have yet to find one very similar to MK's glamour, sensual, funny and dark vibe myself but I hope I helped you a bit, and if I didn't, then I'm sorry and I hope you'll find something good!

I guess the Mission Impossible movies that the MC loves so much are actual inspirations for MK? So you might be interested in those if you haven't watched them.

The movie or series about Hannibal Lecter with Mads Mikkelsen for Kei's route as well? Although I haven't watched it myself so I don't know if it was an inspiration, and it's gore, so be careful with the warnings

I could recommend you French romantic movies that MC would enjoy and that would be similar to MK (as MK heavily implements French references in its content), but I won't be able to guarantee there'll be a translation for you to understand, so I'm giving up the idea

Thank you for the ask, and have a lovely day/night ❤

[flightfoot]

The word "fanon" doesn't mean a lot to me. Fandoms are big and diverse. No one has the full picture.

But YOU are the exception. You seam to know every aspect of the MLB fandom. Or at least most of it.

So when you reblog a post about disliking a fanon Verizon of a character I noticed.

Do you want to elaborate on that?

Honestly I was mostly thinking about Chloe Bourgeois. I was gonna elaborate in the tags, but well... honestly, even in this case, it's not really the fanon version of CHLOE that's the problem. Which is why I didn't elaborate on it at the time, because it didn't totally fit.

Thing is, I do like Chloe, and I especially like versions of Chloe that follow off of the earlier seasons of ML, when it looked like there was going to be more to her, when there are hints of her having these insecurities because of her awful parents and just wanting to be recognized. With her being a mean bully, but beneath all of that being deeply hurt and trying to fill in the holes left behind by her parents' neglect or disdain. With her desperately trying to earn Ladybug's approval, approval that she couldn't get from her own mother. With her not thinking much of most other people, but going far to help the few people she cares about. So stories where she's still recognizably herself and still can function as a classic mean girl bully if the story calls for it, but with more to her, where she's treated as a person beneath it all still.

I'm not so fond of stories just giving her a straight-up personality replacement, where she's Chloe in-name-only, and she turns into a nice person off-screen with little explanation. I don't hate it, but it also doesn't feel like Chloe, and takes away what could be a really interesting character development arc. It's okay, but not my jam.

The stories I hate are the ones that do either of these types of things (especially the second one where she just gets a straight-up personality replacement) and then the other, canonically nicer kids are made worse, with Chloe and Alya basically swapping personalities. Everyone knows how much I hate Alya, Adrien, and the rest of the class being bashed, and Chloe and Alya having swapped roles just showcases the intense double standards of the writer, and is incredibly frustrating for me since it makes me leery of Good!Chloe and makes me want to vent about people making Chloe into a nicer person when that's not actually my central problem with the trope. So I have to try and take great pains to convey that I like Chloe being good, but doing it at other characters' expense, especially with how Alya in particular ends up getting targeted in these cases, is not cool.

I still remember when I briefly filtered out "Chloe Bourgeois Redemption" on AO3 because of a fic that started demonizing Alya out of nowhere by making her be mean to Chloe, and that was the only tag the fic had at the time that was even remotely associated with salt. I took out that filter soon afterwards because I do really like fics that redeem her, but dammit, BECAUSE of how those good and redeemed versions of Chloe are used, I'm often leery when I see her treated too positively and it sucks to have that knee-jerk reaction.

[tenebraevesper]

It makes me laugh how some say that Lila is the best villain in ML when in reality she is the worst (all the villains in this series are terrible, Felix being the most decent).

Absolutely agree!

Here's my deal with Lila - I feel like she lacks proper motivation and presence as a villain. She is at best a teenage bully who uses lies and manipulation to get what she wants, and considering how her classmates lack the braincells to verify whether what she says is the truth or not, it makes her so frustrating as a character.

She is supposed to have this villain presence, but when you pick her character apart, she is pretty much laughable. In a story that is written better than MLB, she wouldn't last long since her lies wouldn't be believable. For example, all of the illnesses she listed in real life would need a doctor's note to be verified. Her claims of meeting famous people (Prince Ali, Jagged Stone, being Ladybug's friend) could be easily debunked by having the main cast just ask those people whether they know Lila (Rose is friends with Prince Ali, and Marinette is Ladybug and has connection with Jagged Stone), but nobody thinks about it. Even Alya, the self-proclaimed ''I verify my sources'' journalist doesn't even bother to ask Ladybug nor Marinette about Lila's deal, despite knowing that Marinette hates her. Her having multiple identities and mothers ranges from ridiculous to ''WTF?! were the writers even thinking?!''. It's that bad.

Lila is pretty much a black hole of bad characterization, sucking in all of the side characters into it and making them look worse. She certainly could've been written better, but the way she is now, she is an anomaly that rose as a villain because the writers have no clue how to write a proper manipulative villain.

And because teenage girls are more evil than terrorists, we can't forget that part.

[mari-the-tortured-poet]

BUT CAN WE TALK ABOUT THE IMPROVEMENT???

i’m in TEARS after the ml paris special and i wasn’t gonna post on this acc but i actually have to now because it was so good.

first of all, hats off to the writing team for FINALLY FIGURING OUT HOW TO WRITE COMPLEX CHARACTERS! even more so REALISTIC CHARACTERS WITH DEPRESSION!!! the movie gave me hope with adrien’s personality change but this just absolutely took the cake. seeing claw noir physically break down over losing his mother was such a 👌👌👌 moment. likewise with shadybug losing it over the life she never knew she could’ve had. both VERY REALISTIC REACTIONS TO GRIEF/TRAUMA.

and beyond THAT, we peek under the smiley happy shiny pretty sunshine boi surface of our adrien. even since season 4, the writing has improved so much. the characters are well-formed, with reasons to why they are who they are, and are still being shaped into new people. like y’ALL, if you’d told me that marinette would turn into one of the most complex characters in the whole show, i would have laughed in your face and told you to suck eggs.

AND ARE WE GOING TO TALK ABOUT THE WHOLE “SUPREME” DEAL BECAUSE WE WERE ROBBED- THERE BETTER BE A SEQUEL OR A SPINOFF OR A CROSSOVER EPISODE BECAUSE I’M SO INVESTED IN THAT UNIVERSE NOW, WE NEED TO SEE MORE OF FATHER FIGURE BETTERFLY WITH HIS TWO NEW CHAOS CHILDREN BECAUSE YESSSSSSSSS

in conclusion, the ml paris special was AMAZING representation, the writers deserve a raise and a hug, and i will be the one sucking eggs. thank you.

[galactic-glamour-girl-posts]

RANT : ML Season 5's Ending

I don't post about Miraculous much, but I need to get this off my chest.

WARNING :

Salt. Just...all the salt.

Chloe:

I don't like Chloe, she's a horrible person and hogged a lot of screen time throughout the show that could have been given to other characters, such as Nino. However, I find it disturbing that they decided to send a teenage girl to live with her abuser, with absolutely no friends; meanwhile her father, who only deciding to put his foot down last minute, gets to quit the job he's always hated anyway (even though he's abused his power before, and not just for Chloe's sake) without being called out for how he spoiled his daughter AND the adult magical terrorist gets a statue.

Not to mention Felix, a teenage boy who also has done terrible things, basically gets away scot-free. Remember when he basically tried to kill EVERYONE except for four people including himself, remember when he tried to force himself onto Ladybug, remember when he gave all the miraculous to a terrorist, remember when all it took to "redeem" himself was to emotionally manipulate someone in a vulnerable state into watching a play to convince her to solve the problem he caused for him (btw I can't believe Kagami came up with that plan and revealed Ladybug's identity behind her back, what the heck?) I get that he was abused, at the end of the day he's an abuse victim doing literally anything he can to gain the freedom he never had, but if he gets sympathy after all of that, what about Chloe? She was abused, she was neglected. Felix not only is seemingly forgiven and "redeemed", but still gets to be a permanent miraculous holder. When you combine that with how the narrative treats Gabriel and Andre, it looks like a sexist double standard...probably because it is.

Chloe sucks but that isn't entirely her fault. Andre spoiled her rotten, Audrey was a horrible influence when she wasn't straight up neglecting or verbally abusing her, Miss Bustier coddled her and Damocles let her get away with pretty much anything (although in their case I guess the mayor would've prevented them from letting Chloe face substantial consequences), Gabriel (and Lila) manipulated her multiple times. I'm not absolving Chloe of all blame, but she's 14. Leaving her with her abuser is horrible. That isn't cathartic, it's cruel. I'm not even asking for a redemption, I just think this "punishment" is too much.

Gabriel (and Tomoe too I guess):

Let's talk more about Gabriel. Gabriel, the abusive father, the magical terrorist, the guy that spent some of his final moments manipulating a teen, not only gets to make his wish, but also gets to be remembered as a hero. Statue included. Never mind that pretty much all of Adrien's classmates knew he was a terrible father at this point, they all clap and cheer when it's revealed he's getting a statue. The whole world is lied to and told the Alliance rings were hijacked by Monarch and that Gabriel sacrificed himself whilst trying to help stop him (I don't blame Ladybug for that though, I'm solely blaming the writers here). And we're supposed to be fine with this because he misses his wife and "tried to be a good father"? No.

An abused teenage girl is supposedly terrible beyond redemption, but an adult abuser is essentially outright vindicated by the narrative (the person he abused is tricked into thinking he was a hero, and Paris is basically a utopia post-wish). What a horrible message.

Remember, this may not be the end of the show, but this is the end of Gabriel's Agreste's story, and what an unfitting end it is.

Oh, and Tomoe gets away scot-free by the looks of it, because of course. Maybe she'll get comeuppance in a later season, but I'm not gonna defend the finale because of what a future episode might do, especially when this would've been the perfect time (and this goes for the possibility of Gabriel's secret identity being revealed to the public too).

Adrien:

I think Adrien is easily the most overrated character in the show. He's constantly coddled by the narrative, tends to "inspire" Marinette to be more passive and forgiving than she should be, and is incredibly bland (or at least he was until they started pushing just how angry he could get and how entitled to Ladybug's love he could feel, which I guess is something, but that something sure isn't pleasant); but you're telling me he doesn't get to have a legit passion beyond knowing he loves Marinette, to be involved in the final battle, to find out his dad is Monarch OR even that he's a sentimonster? He needs to know his life is tied to that ring and that he should be careful with it. This isn't "protecting him" (he's not a baby, if Felix eventually came to terms with being a sentimonster so can Adrien), if anything it's the opposite. Not letting him know that is dangerous! If not Marinette, Felix? Kagami? Nathalie? No one's going to tell him?! I hate to say it, but by robbing him of his agency and deciding they know what's best for him, they're being controlling over Adrien too; and no, I don't think that's "interesting", not after five seasons of Adrien already being controlled by someone else.

What is the show even trying to say? That Adrien needs to be controlled because he can't handle his emotions? Forget about giving him time or a good support system, he just wouldn't be able to handle it? If it was just his nightmare that'd be one thing, but Chat Blanc seems to indicate this is legitimately what they're saying. Why is this show trying to portray an abuse victim as someone who's dangerous and needs to be kept under control? Not just dangerous, but ultimately more dangerous than his abuser, since Gabriel made his wish and everything turned out fine (and at worst maybe one innocent person would have died/fallen into a coma had his wish not changed), but in "Chat Blanc" EVERYONE other than Chat died.

It does not matter if he finds out in a later season; it doesn't change the fact that his family is willingly lying to him and potentially endangering him by doing so, all for the sake of his abuser. Sure, you could argue Gabriel emotionally manipulated Marinette, but what's everyone else's excuse? I don't care if it leads to "interesting conflict", a) it's a conflict they've done before (Ladybug keeping secrets from Chat Noir), I'm not gonna praise the show for repeating itself, b) don't tell me telling Adrien the truth would've been "too sad" for the show to do but Marinette having to keep her mouth shut about Gabriel for the rest of her life (or even temporarily) is "interesting angst" (at least try to hide your favouritism, besides it's never even implied she feels guilty over this), and c) it's not like it will have a satisfying payoff, after all, it didn't last time. Even if Adrien does find out, Gabriel's not around anymore, so chances are Marinette will have to suffer the consequences of that, not Gabriel. That's not satisfying.

Like...Gabriel may as well have been related to Marinette instead (not her father but her uncle or something). Why not? Remember when he was her favourite fashion designer? (Don't worry if you don't, the show doesn't either.) Maybe have him become her mentor, imagine how much more of a personal impact Ladybug and Monarch finding out each other's identities could've had on both of them.

Why even have the main villain be related to the deuteragonist (giving him a closer connection to the main villain of the show than the actual main character) if you were just gonna side-line him in the final battle and rob him of any sense of closure? Whatever drama they can squeeze out of him finding out who Monarch is (IF he does) won't be nearly as interesting as it would've been to see Chat Noir confront Monarch, face to face, knowing that he's his father. Adrien might not even remember Gabriel being abusive at all, it's not made clear. But if he doesn't, all that time spent on Adrien's relationship with his father, building up a big confrontation between them? Wasted.

Remember how season 4 ended? How it built up Ladybug and Chat Noir working together to retrieve all the Miraculous back, after a season of them being more distant?

What a joke.

Is he the deuteragonist, or a trophy? The show can't seem to decide.

Marinette:

And then there's Marinette who, in a show that supposedly wants to empower young girls, doesn't even get to defeat the main male bad guy. After multiple seasons with her as the main lead, after multiple episodes where she's apologised or made to feel bad for either completely justifiable reactions or things that straight up weren't her fault (remember when she was made to say she was "out of line" at the end of an episode that was supposed to be about racism and police aggression?) meanwhile other characters rarely apologise to her in return, we don't even get the satisfaction of seeing her truly defeat the person that's caused her so much grief.

Seriously, she went through so much in this show; between the class consistently siding with Lila over her (btw turns out Lila basically had nothing to lose the whole time because she had multiple identities, yet another unsatisfying conclusion to a conflict), being forced to become a guardian, losing all the Miraculous, etc, and for what?

She failed. That's not me being too harsh. She may have influenced Gabriel to change his wish (emphasis on "may have", I'm pretty sure that woman was originally Emilie but in that case Nathalie being healed doesn't make sense), but her goal was to prevent the wish in the first place.

And why did they have to make her look like a fool? Felix's play spelled it out for her that Gabriel is Monarch, she even realises that he referred to the day she lost the Miraculous, but from the way it's presented she only figures out Gabe's Monarch after seeing him de-transform? Why did she think giving him a another chance would turn out well? She tried that all the way back in season 2, and it didn't work. Marinette is kind-hearted but she has her limits. You're telling me Lila crossed a line but Monarch could maybe be reasoned with? Why? Because he has a sob story?

Marinette is strategic and quick-witted. She's not an idiot.

Gabriel gets to make his wish and everyone else (who am I kidding, just Ladybug) has to clean up after him. Not only that, Ladybug does him a favour and ensures everyone is tricked into believing he was a hero. If anything, Chat Noir, the main male superhero, landed the killing blow.

Great. Just great. How empowering.

Bonus nit-picks:

--Did everyone on the planet seriously forget that the Adrien and Kagami in the Alliance rings aren't real, they're virtual simulations? That wasn't a secret. How did they fall for Gabriel's fake plea?

--If they were gonna put the girls from the specials and Future!Alix on the poster, they could've have them do more at least.

--Okay, Luka training with Su-Han was random but I guess since he was a temporary Miraculous holder it kinda makes sense...Penny and ESPECIALLY Jagged though? Nah.

--Ivan was the first person to EVER be akumatized then saved by Ladybug and Chat Noir. So with that in mind, surely he more than anyone would trust that they'd never kidnap two virtual innocent people, and would join Alya in reminding everyone else how they were always there for them, in a touching moment that brings the "first arc" full circle...oh.

--Look, Marinette is very talented, and I realise she had the book to help her but...I'm sorry literally HOW did she fix the Miraculous? Gabriel needed high-tech, presumably very expensive, machinery to re-shape them.

Final thoughts:

What makes this all sting so much more is that, wasn't season 5 supposed to be the original ending, just in case future seasons didn't happen? All seasons after this one are basically bonus seasons. So originally the show ended HERE. The last we would've seen of Chloe was her crying, trapped with her abusive mother. For all we knew Adrien would've been living a lie the rest of his life, looking up to his abuser. Gabriel is never fully revealed as the monster he truly was and is honoured as a "hero". Marinette literally gets stabbed in the back (well, it was her stomach, but you get the idea). There wasn't even a reveal, Ladybug and Chat Noir would've just never found out who the other truly is I guess.

Oh, but don't worry. Marinette and Adrien kissed.

That's all that really matters, right? (Never mind the fact that they spent five seasons building up to the start of a romantic relationship, and it will undoubtedly take even more for it to become a healthy one.)

Maybe the ending was originally different. Maybe they modified the ending of the season finale after finding out season 5 wouldn't be the last season. Maybe this will all somehow be fixed later (no matter how long they may will drag it out for).

Or maybe Marinette's blatantly out of character action (she hates liars, and only lied about her identity because she had to, even considering Gabriel's attempts to emotionally manipulate her previous episodes have made it clear she would not lie to Adrien, let alone the WHOLE WORLD, about Gabriel) will come back to bite her for the sake of having something to blame her for next season.

I don't know.

I don't care.

The writing for this show has been poor for a LONG time. I only stuck around because I still found myself having fun watching it from time to time, even as the problems got worse. That, and I was hopeful it would at least stick the landing. But after this, I don't think I can stomach continuing to watch a show that will probably continue to push such awful messages, and with such awful pacing.

Word of advice, all shows have flaws, so feel free to complain when a show does something you think is stupid (I've never found the argument that kids shows shouldn't be criticised because they're kid shows to make sense), but if you're not enjoying yourself because you can't overlook a show's problems, if you don't find pleasure in watching a show...just stop watching it. It's a waste of your time. Don't "wait for it to get good", don't wait for future seasons to clean up a current season's mess, don't continue watching it just because the fandom makes better content. I promise you there are better shows out there that deserve (and need) your attention.

So with that in mind...I don't think I'll be watching what comes next.

[generalluxun]

Was musing on an idea earlier and I think its a realization you had Marinette have in Chasing a Dream.

Basically how, "Beating" Chloe at her own game so to speak does not actually fix anything. They might win for the day, but Chloe's not going anywhere after loosing the class election, being insulted until she storms out has not changed her.

I imagine one can argue about why it doesn't work, be it from the perspective of "You can't emotionally bludgeon or isolate people into being nicer".

But on a "Stops harassing us" level even it clearly doesn't work. & from personal experience that one can, IE getting jumped by four boys at school but making the resulting slug fest messy and unpleasant enough that they didn't both me again. Didn't necessarily stop them all together but it kept me safe which was the main focus at the time.

But as said, that doesn't work on Chloe cos frankly none of them can match the sheer psychological damage her family does to her by winning in contests or insulting her. So pf course she's just going to default to her instinctive "Fight" response and process the whole thing quickly before moving on. She's been getting worse from this for years.

Meanwhile social isolation only serves to steady exaggerate her issues & the divide.

If the goal is getting Chloe to stop, or change then its obviously failed so just as she's "mad" for repeating the same things and expecting success they are are equally "mad" for thinking that this time her defeat or embarrassment will stick.

Now, if they are aware of that and accept it then that at least shows self awareness but if not... Yeah what is the goal and what method could be used to reach it if defeating her does nothing?

Obviously that doesn't mean just letting Chloe do as she pleases, but there's a very wide range of responses between being a doormat and spending every day in a clash of wills so to speak.

Heck, Kagami's handling of her in their first interaction at least seemed effective for a fair bit of time, though again it didn't fix things, it did at least seem more constructive. Meanwhile we actually have seen Chloe response extremely well to certain types of feedback.

Like, not exactly harping on 14 year old's for not figuring this all out, but I do think its an interesting question for maybe an outsider to pose in a sort of "So what's the end goal here? Cos this obviously sucks for literally everyone & makes everything harder, all the time."

Sorry tis got away from me a bit.

No worries! It's a writing based problem you see:

1)The writerswanted to keep Chloé as a ready antagonist. It makes writing the recurring episodic plotlines easier.

2)The writers decided somewhere in S5 to hold her 'accountable' for the way they prevented her from learning or growing so they could keep using her as a recurring antagonist.

It's in the same vein as the choice the writers made to give Marinette an exaggerated crush for 4 seasons so they could milk it for farcical humor, then turn around and pretend it was actual narrative trauma the whole time.

They want to have their cake and eat it too.

In a broader sense, yeah, the ML writers lack the ability to show any problem being solved by more than an end of episode pep talk. Addiction, abuse, even Gabriel's 'defeat' came down to one. If a pep talk doesn't solve it, they're just 'evil'.

[mystic-myrtille]

I'm in a salt mode so lets get into this

One of the biggest problems people had with the L//S is how poorly developed it's been and how less effort it has been put into it, And don't get me started how Adrichat and Maribug barely interact basically making the ship have 0 chemistry.

But then when ships like Lukanette and Adrigami came along, then there's some Toxic L//S stans who bash the characters (and doxx lukanette and adrigami shippers), with their only excuse being "ThEy R iN tHe Way of adr///ette/L//s (Mainly because they're insecure that Lukanette/Adrigami has Chemistry, proper development and effort and their ship doesn't)

I'm so sick and tired of the hate that Lukanette/Adrigami gets.

I'm so sick and tired of the hate that Luka/Kagami gets.

I'm so sick and tired of toxic L//S stans projecting their ship on every. single. damn. thing

I'm so sick and tired of seeing Lukanette/Adrigami shippers get d0xxed, threatened and bullied just because they don't ship the L//S or Adr//ette

Yikes, people doxxed each other because of ships?? For some reason I'm not entirely surprised. I've seen fandoms with super toxic people and the ml fandom sure can be toxic as hell. If you (general) get so worked up about people's opinions about characters from a kids show, you should be denied access to the internet and instead have access to tons grass to touch. But yeah, even just "normal hate" can be frustrating and discouraging, so it's best to just block those people. I completely understand your frustration.

Luka//nette isn't good because they were half canon, it's good because they have a meaningful bond and the root for drama is always outside circumstances and not the fact that they fundementally don't work together. If Mari wasn't Ladybug, they probably wouldn't have split up. That's why I love this ship so much. Besides, they never got in the way of anything. Realistically, no ship can get in the way of a confirmed endgame ship bc, well, it's endgame. So this argument is kind of falls flat (honestly most arguments against Luka//nette I've heard were either not really important or kind of a very outlandish interpretation of their relationship, I don't care about either.)

Heck, even if Luka//nette wasn't the rival ship but just friends in canon who interacted twice, who cares? Shipping isn't supposed to be serious, it's exploring different dynamics between characters and having fun putting them in different scenarios and have them have 6176310278 different first kisses. There's no rule that you have to be on board with the canon ship.

Now speaking of L//S developement (bc now I'm also in a salty mood and I have thoughts)

I and many others have already talked about how s1-4 didn't really do much with them. But I find it funny when people say that s5 did a great job developing they're relationship because... bitch where? I've watched season 5 (I have no self respect) and everything was confusing and over the place and I think that's bc the writers can't make up their minds about which problems the L//S might face actually matter and how they can be solved.

The season starts with Mari making a big deal about how loving Adrien is dangerous because hero stuff. Oh but actually it doesn’t matter, she likes CN now, problem solved! Oh wait no Chat friendzoned her and Adrien is pushing real hard for Adr//nette so they give up their fucking miraculous (in times of crisis I might add), problem solved! No wait, actually the new heroes suck so they take them back, but that’s okay bc being in love and being a superhero at the same time is actually no longer a problem for some reason! The actual problem is that Mari is incapable of expressing herself because she has trauma. And THAT’S the real shit because fucking everybody gets so invested they organize literal dates for them and watch from a distance until they smooch instead of, oh idk, letting them do things their own way. But actually that also doesn't matter anymore bc Zoe just confessed and Mari was so inspired she immediately ran to Adrien. Oh but Adrien is a senti without free will and he goes to england soon whoopsie. Also Gabriel and Tomoe are now Adri//gami shippers because of course we need an arranged marriage deal type of plot. Oh yeah there's also something about Monarch apparently having all the miraculouses but who cares amirite

See what I mean? There's no structure, no actually overcoming problems, it's just random shit happening without any connection to the previous random shit. The characters don't develop in a meaningful way. Mari's only life goal is making one cohesive sentence in front of Adrien and he's kind of just there. I mean he could maybe feel inspired by Marinette's passion for arts and crafts and try out some stuff or he could continue to have no direction in life. Yes, as a teen it's hard knowing what you want to do later in life, but Adrien doesn't even really have actual hobbies he can define himself through. The writers fail not only to develop the relationship as a whole but also the characters involved as people. They could as easily be a situationship where they meed every two days to make out and it wouldn't change anyting. It's just fan service here and there combined with shallow and forgettable dialogue (I think, there wasn't a conversation that stick with me at least) and idk this maybe works as a first love that maybe lasts for a year before they have a dramatic break up and then move on with their lives, But the show tries to sell this idea that the square will actually stay together forever (or have a constant toxic on-off thing bc that's the vibe I'm getting. Plus Bunnyx sort of implied that).

[noelle-holi-gay]

20 Questions for Fic Writers

heyyyy I was tagged by @snarky-wallflower for this thingy, and I don't typically do stuff like this but what the heck! This one looks fun, and I need a small break from finals.

1. How many works do you have on AO3?

Sixty-six! Nice round satanic number.

2. What’s your total word count?

Uhhh... 1,164,238. I think I broke a million back with Dream Come True. Wild stuff! Guess that's what happens when you do this nonstop for like four years.

3. What fandoms do you write for?

Mostly Deltarune these days, obviously, but I also had a wonderful time in the Splatoon and DuckTales fandoms, as well as Miraculous Ladybug, My Little Pony, and a ton of smaller ones here and there.

4. Top 5 fics by kudos

Dare to Dream (Deltarune): A fun little Susie x Noelle romcom that takes place in a divergent chapter 2 timeline where Susie kisseed Noelle on the Ferris Wheel. Also the first fic in my mega-series Dream Come True, a 300,000 word epic that really kind of went off the rails. But don't worry about that! It's just a funny little romcom! Come closer!

F@#!, Marry, or Kill (Miraculous Ladybug): I am so mad that this is up here. This fic sucks. I wrote it when I was fourteen (hence my reluctance to say "fuck" in the title) and it's just the main characters of the show getting caught up in a game of Fuck-Marry-Kill that involves their own superhero identites, but nobody else knows that. It's a good way to leverage the dramatic irony of Miraculous Ladybug, I guess, but I hate that this was my most-kudoed fic for so long. I wrote it over SEVEN years ago. The only reason it got so popular is because back in 2016, the Miraculous Ladybug fandom was a sea of piranhas starved by the seemingly endless will-they won't-they of the show, ravenous for whatever scraps they could get their grimy little teeth on. Perfect example of why popularity doesn't always equate with quality.

People Write Fanfiction About Me? (Miraculous Ladybug): This one is actually good, even if it's also incredibly old. Basically, Marinette finds online RPF of her and her superhero partner that was obviously written by her superhero partner, and they get into a whole meta fanfiction war, and it gets worse from there. I like this one a lot even if it's in an outdated style: I think it's a good take on the identity reveal genre for the ML fandom.

Stealing Kisses (Deltarune): Not much to say on this one! It's a direct continuation of Dare to Dream, still part of the Dream Come True series, though it functions more as a drama than a straight romcom, which is only one of many tone shifts that this series eventually takes. It also contains Locker Biting Challenge (if you know you know), which I think is, to date, one of the funniest bits of situational comedy I've ever written, so it gets special notes for that.

Crossing the Streams (DuckTales): And this is my most popular DuckTales fic, to round out the set! It's a low-stakes / no-magic AU, where instead of going on daring adventures, the DuckTales kids stream FPS video games online, and are, like, famous streamers. I think its popularity was artificially boosted just a tad due to being in-progress when the series finale dropped, but I think it holds up! I had some good fun playing with identity, fame, and hidden relationships.

5. Do you respond to comments?

I--sometimes! Just not very often... Look, if someone asks me a question, or if I have something to actually say in response, or if the comment is particularly touching, I'll reply, but I'm just really bad at taking compliments! It feels very awkward to me to reply to every comment when I would basically just be going "Thanks so much, I'm glad you liked it!" ten times in a row. That's the only reason (<-Definitely doesn't have anxiety)

6. What’s the fic you wrote with the angstiest ending?

I don't tend to do unhappy endings. Cold Case for sure, if it were finished, lmao. Although--I guess you could argue Stealing Kisses has a very angsty ending, though it isn't actually an ending since it's just a sequel-bait cliffhanger. But yeah, I'm going to cheat a little and say Cold Case. It should be finished soon, anyway! Hopefully!

7. What’s the fic you wrote with the happiest ending?

That's hard to say considering the amount of romcoms I've written, but I think I'd actually have to go with the final mainline entry in my Splatoon series, Operation 24, which was The Wedding. It ends on a really sweet and poignant rooftop scene that I think is particularly uplifting, even compared to the endings of my other long-form romance fics.

8. Do you get hate on fics?

Very rarely. I've gotten my share of transphobic comments -- welcome to the Internet! -- but thankfully they've been few and far between. I just delete them when they show up.

9. Do you write smut?

Yes, I have; no, you can't see it :p

10. Do you write crossovers?

I have written at least two crossover fics, so yes! I wouldn't exactly call it my genre, though. They're a little too niche and I like attention.

11. Have you ever had a fic stolen?

Oh boy. Yes, twice; the first was my Fuck Marry Kill fic for miraculous ladybug, which was ripped off and horribly butchered into a terrible version of the story by someone who IMMEDIATELY abandoned it to Orphan Account. Which is wild to me.

But the real creme of the crop was some kid on WattPad who copied large portions of my Operation 24 series, and then changed small and seemingly arbitrary details throughout to be more...train-centric? Like, all the characters would have strange and OOC dialog about trains in the middle of the romance. And then after a few chapters of that it did a total left-hand veer into a Thomas the Tank Engine / Harry Potter crossover that was utterly wild to behold. This whole saga is probably one of the weirdest things that has ever happened to me in my life and I'm honestly more bewildered than mad about it.

12. Have you ever had a fic translated?

Wow, wouldn't that be cool! But no, along with getting a podfic this is one of those big fic-writer experiences that has elude me thusfar.

13. Have you ever co-written a fic before?

Nope! I don't really know how to co-write outside of RP, and I haven't ever really done RP. I'm not opposed to the concept of co-writing, but I think it's sort of difficult to make work with my writing style.

14. What’s your all-time favorite ship?

While I'd love to give the PR-friendly answer of Suselle, I think it's gotta go to Miraculous Ladybug's Love Square. That show has haunted me for seven years and is showing no sign of stopping, and the fuckery it does with its main relationship is some utterly unrivaled Shakespearian nonsense. The way the fandom has built around the relationship is also very interesting, especially the way the fanfic scene has shifted as the show develops and its audience grows up.

15. What’s a WIP you want to finish but doubt you will?

If I want to finish a WIP, I will finish that WIP. The only ones that don't get finished are the ones I don't want to finish. This is the power of believing in yourself!

16. What are your writing strengths?

Dialog for sure--always has been--and also just, like, grammar? I do words good, as they say. I like to think I have a pretty well-rounded writing skillset at this point, though.

17. What are your writing weaknesses?

Definitely descriptive stuff like setting the scene. I have to really work to make sure my scenes are embodied in physical reality, and sometimes I just forget to describe new locations. It's just a fairly boring part of writing for me, so I don't like doing it.

18. Thoughts on writing dialogue in another language?

I took six years of Spanish and have forgotten all of it, so this is unlikely at best. Spanish also uses em dashes instead of quotation marks to denote speaker changes, and while that is very linguistically interesting, it is also very confusing to me, specifically.

19. First fandom you wrote for?

Uhhh... the first fandom I published was Miraculous Ladybug, but I think the first fandom I wrote for was My Little Pony. My MLP stuff is on a different site, and also pretty freaking bad, but it was my first large-scale fic and it really helped me develop my skills and voice.

20. Favorite fic you’ve ever written?

Easy: Dream Come True. That was a monumental journey to go on, and seeing my readerbase follow along as that story morphed and twisted and just kept going and going was such a unique and satisfying experience as a writer. It truly feels unreplicable.

I'm not going to tag anyone because I am a coward, and get horribly anxious at the prospect of @ing people. But if you see this and you wanna do it, use me as an excuse! Say I atted you! Live freely!

Okay good bye. I must return to my endless studies...

[alteanroyals]

since i am seeing so much negativity about ml season 5 (which happens in every single season) i just wanted to spread some positivity and say that i've really been enjoying season 5!

taking ASIDE the release order (which, although it sucks, at this point we should be used to it) i truly think season 5 is really good and one of my fave seasons from the entire show

i am by no means saying it's perfect or praising the show blindly. For example, my main problem is the way the writers treat alya in CERTAIN episodes. Another thing would be Marinette's parents believing that Marinette actually stole those things in Adoration, like come on that was bullshit. The whole thing with Chloe, peeeersonally i don't really mind if i am being honest. I would have loveeed for her to redeem herself but hey i am kinda over it at this point and i LOVE to see Adrien putting her in her place and telling it like it is. (justice for sabrina tho, queen needs a redemption arc and true friends ASAP)

but most episodes this season have given me lots to think about and affect the plot and the characters. Marinette and Adrien's relationship journey is ADORABLE AND I AM LOVING EVERY SINGLE MINUTE OF IT. The characters are getting more depth and development which is awesome and it makes you see them and their relationships in a whole new way. The ever expanding lore??? Loving it. I honestly love the whole Agrestes drama and i need to know more about it, we are slowly getting there.

so to sum up: i am really liking season 5 and i won't shup up about it. if you want to criticize it go ahead, but as i always say, if you hate everything about a show, perhaps it's time to stop watching it and let people enjoy it in peace