#mlb criticism

[teamoon7]

Onde Zoe se encaixa? Nos que são adicionados, mas mal participam da série? Ondine, Zoe e Wayhem (não sei porque, mas não gosto dele)

Acho que ela definitivamente não faz parte dos que mal participam hasuahsa os roteiristas adicionam ela no plot sempre que podem, até o marc (e a maioria dos meninos), alix e afins se encaixariam mais nesse grupo que ela

Eu encaixaria ela no grupo junto com kagami, luka e felix: personagens secundários que não fazem parte da miracuclass, mas têm grande relevância em certas partes da narrativa (mesmo que não apareçam muito, quando aparecem eles são o foco de coisas importantes basicamente)

Eu também detesto o wayhem... ele é basicamente um fã obcecado que a série finge que é de boa. Ele era a oportunidade perfeita pra mostrar comportamentos tóxicos de fãs e fazer a marinette aprender com as próprias ações, percebendo o quanto as ações do wayhem são desconfortáveis pro adrien (e, consequentemente, entendendo que as dela também são erradas). Mas mesmo com o adrien (obviamente) ficando super desconfortável com ele, fizeram eles virarem amigos, então assim fhghsajfgsa acho uma péssima "lição" pro público

A ondine é ok? Ela quase não aparece pra dar pra fazer um julgamento... mas definitivamente foi muito paia o quão rápido ela perdoou o kim pelas merdas que ele fez com a marinette, considerando que ele sequer tinha reconhecido o erro até aquele dia e que ele SIMPLESMENTE CHAMOU A MENINA MAIS TÓXICA CONHECIDA DE LINDA E PERFEITA NA FRENTE DA NAMORADA. Esse mano definitivamente não merece ela e seria bom de quebra mostrar alguém sofrendo as consequências pelas próprias ações, mesmo que se arrependa depois (pra mostrar que você pode sim se arrepender, mas as pessoas têm direito total de ficarem chateadas com você e quererem se afastar, e que se você só se arrepende pra não perder isso, você não se arrependeu de verdade)

Agora, sobre a zoe... compartilho da opinião bem popular de que ela só foi criada pra substituir a chloe. Porque assim, é bem óbvio que foi por isso. Existia uma época perfeita pra introduzir ela, caso fosse pré-planejada: no arco da batalha das rainhas. Poderiam fazer o arco de "tentativa de redenção" da chloe muito melhor e de forma muito mais natural, dariam um contexto de uma possível rivalidade (pelo ponto de vista da chloe, que acharia que a zoe ganha mais atenção da mãe por viver em NY) e relação mais interessante, e deixariam claro desde cedo que a zoe era uma portadora em potencial. Não só isso, como tinha um enorme potencial em explorar a relação da própria zoe com a mãe, e mostrar que ela também era negligenciada mesmo vivendo no mesmo país que a mãe, coisa que poderia ser interessante tanto pra ela quanto pra chloe. Mas mesmo que ela não tivesse sido criada só pra essa "substituição", isso só comprovaria a incompetência dos roteiristas em introduzir bem a personagem, então assim hasauhduasds acho que seria pior

Mas bom, minha opinião sobre a zoe tem 2 pontos principais: a personalidade dela e o que tiveram medo de fazer

A personalidade dela consiste boa parte em "ser boazinha". Na maior parte do tempo, isso é tudo o que ela acaba sendo: uma personagem que faz coisas boas. E isso não é nem um pouco interessante de assistir, afinal, é meio que... mais do mesmo. Mas grande motivo dela ser mais detestada que outros personagens que sofrem o mesmo problema de pouca personalidade pra mim é, basicamente, toda a questão da forma como introduziram ela pra substituir a chloe (e, no mesmo timing, a forma como transformaram a chloe em alguém 100x pior), coisa que DAVA pra fazer direito, mas não souberam fazer. Até conseguiram fazer algo mais legal com ela em escolha dos kwamis e em uma cena aqui e ali, mas no geral, ela só não é uma personagem tão interessante de assistir. Também vejo muitos falando que "ela é melhor que a queen bee como heroína porque conseguiu usar bem o miraculous muito mais rápido", mas, honestamente, pra mim essa é uma das PIORES coisas que acontecem no quesito roteiro. Quanto mais rápido um personagem recebe um miraculous, menos desafios ele enfrenta, e mais querem enfiar na sua cara que ele é "naturalmente bom nisso". E, igual a grande maioria dos portadores, não tem graça nenhuma em ver alguém lidando TÃO bem com um poder que recém conheceram. Isso tira a magia em boa parte, e deixa as ações dos heróis serem só... mais do mesmo. E, de novo, a forma rápida que a marinette entrega um miraculous pra zoe faz parecer que ela só deu pra primeira pessoa que viu, e fica completamente forçado considerando há quão POUCO tempo ela conhece a zoe, e fica óbvio que tão tentando fazer o público gostar dela. Agora, isso quer dizer que a chloe receber um miraculous da ladybug não foi forçado? Não... mas vou comentar sobre isso no post sobre a chloe.

Mas a grande questão é: existe uma parte da personalidade da zoe que seria diferente da maioria dos personagens, e que tinha bastante potencial: a necessidade que ela sente de mentir pra se readaptar. E ela demonstra essa atitude em principalmente dois episódios, o introdutório (em que ela mente até perto do final) e se não me engano gabriel agreste (que ela mente pro jean sei-lá-oque). Mas é POUQUÍSSIMO tempo mostrando isso, sendo que é o atributo mais interessante dela... e, honestamente, eu *acho* que é porque eles associam isso a algo ruim. Pros roteiristas, ela mentir o tempo todo seria algo ruim (afinal, a lila, próxima antagonista principal, tem como característica principal as mentiras), e NÃO TEM como fazer uma personagem que eles querem que seja amada pelo público e seja considerada boa fazer coisas ruins, né? Por isso o ""arco"" em que ela mente pra se adaptar durou TÃO pouco. E foi justamente isso que jogou fora o que a gente podia ter recebido de melhor dessa personagem. A grande questão é que Miraculous NÃO sabe escrever bem personagens moralmente cinzas, e isso vale até pra personagens como o félix: mesmo que o personagem esteja fazendo algo ruim, eles SEMPRE vão ressaltar ou o lado ruim, ou o lado bom de uma ação de um personagem. Os personagens sempre vão estar ou certos, ou errados, e a gente nunca vai ter uma dúvida levantada intencionalmente sobre uma ação ser certa ou não, porque eles SEMPRE querem demonstrar, mesmo que no mínimo possível, se uma ação é certa ou errada. O que eu quero dizer com isso é: como eles não sabem escrever muito bem personagens bons com atitudes neutras (sendo lidas de fato como neutras), e como eles consideram mentira uma ação ruim (não só pra lila, até em muitas cenas da marinette, adrien e afins) no geral, acho que eles não quiseram muito seguir com isso. Se eles tivessem criado de fato um arco dessa nova personagem, onde o próprio público não saberia totalmente as intenções dela e os outros personagens fossem aos poucos descobrindo mais dela (sem aquela cena toda forçada no final de esmagadora), seria algo MUITO mais interessante de assistir e ela seria uma personagem muito mais interessante. Não só isso, como acho que levar essa característica dela pra frente poderia levar a muitas interações interessantes: tanto ela quanto a marinette mentindo pra esconderem quem são de verdade, ela mentindo pra se adaptar enquanto a kagami detesta mentiras desse tipo num geral, e principalmente: ela mentindo pra se adaptar e a lila mentindo pra ganhar atenção. Todos esses paralelos tinham grande potencial pra serem explorados, e conseguiriam de forma completamente NATURAL irem aos poucos introduzindo ela mais e mais na narrativa se escrevessem ela como uma "rival" da lila em sua essência: não alguém que quer acabar com mentiras, desmascarar elas ou que odeia elas, mas sim alguém que TAMBÉM mente, mas aprendeu (ao longo da narrativa) a não fazer isso "pro mal", e que sabe identificar essas mentiras da lila e, acima de tudo, mentir pra EVITAR as situações caóticas que a lila cria. A lila tá mentindo? A zoe não vai tentar desprovar as mentiras, mas sim COMPLEMENTAR elas de forma que a marinette e/ou outras pessoas não sejam prejudicadas. O que a lila vai fazer? Dizer que é mentira? Sendo que tudo que ela mesma falou também é? A dinâmica podia ser incrível, mas infelizmente foi uma característica quase que abandonada da personagem.

E é por isso que eu discordo bastante de todos que falam que "a zoe não serviria pra nada na narrativa em qualquer situação, e por isso devia ser removida por completo". Ela poderia servir sim e, inclusive, tinha MUITO potencial. Existia um universo onde os arcos de zoe e chloe seriam perfeitamente combinados, um afetando o outro, mas com ambas personagens ainda sendo elas mesmas e tendo seus próprios arcos individuais. Por mais que a zoe tenha tido uma introdução que deixe claro o motivo (ruim) da existência dela, AINDA tinha como transformar ela numa ótima personagem. Mas como sempre, não foi o caso, e temos o que temos atualmente :/

[motherofplatypus]

The funniest thing about thomas and co watching the finale and explaining stuffs while they're at it is that they made it worse by a long shot. It's like beating a dead bush with a dead horse while digging their own graves.

Explain that Mari is actually aware that Gabe is Monarch? Doesn't explain why she's going to his house without Chat to beat his ass.

Jokingly saying that Jagged's crocodile is important to the fight? Nice joke, but care to explain where this whole Kung Fu trio and pet plot came from?

Said that they had planned that Chat won't be in the final fight with Hawkmoth since the beginning? Good job, his character turned out has always been this worthless.

It was Amelie at the end and Emelie stayed dead? Good to know the last 8 years of her irrelevance actually became irrelevant.

Said it was actually Marinette's win? Of course when the villain finally achieved their goal it is the hero's victory.

They actually believe that Gabe is a hero? Hooray, so glad they actually believe that the terrorist who has no qualms nor remorse for physically and mentally beating his own son that he enslaved for his own business is a hero.

And that's not including how they don't explain how people become Miraculized despite it not being akumatization, or how Lila isn't affected by the nightmare, or why Gabe unified Tikki and Plagg in Deflagration instead of making the wish despite it doesn't requires him to unify them.

And those were from two episodes alone. Imagine if they had to explain other episodes, like Evolution and Derision. How deep can they dig their own grave?

[nixthelapin]

I think the writers totally missed out on using Alya and Lila as foils for both being foxes, but using the power of illusion and misdirection in very different ways.

Lila: using emotions and threats to set a trap for LB (and CN, but she’s got that personal grudge)

Vs. Alya: using her intelligence/cunning to get out of a trap (and get LB out too)

And just in general being very different people:

Lila’s entire character is that she’s a liar who will do anything to avoid the truth, while Alya is the investigative reporter who uncovers truth.

Lila as someone who hates and is out to get both Marinette and LB vs. Alya who loves and supports both

I just think they could’ve done a lot more with this, especially since they made both girls a fox character, specifically surrounding the Fox Miraculous (I know Lila never had the real one, but she did pretend to for her akumatization)- that’s not nothing!

But nah, instead Alya just becomes brain dead around Lila, believes all her lies without question (no matter how stupid or nonsensical), and doubts everything her best friend tells her when it comes to said lies. Wasted potential.

[stanlunter]

"Adrian and Kagami broke up bc Kagami didn't like silly Adrian, his real personality!"

Litterally Kagami with Adrian:

They really had to turn Kagami into ooc and destroy all her development only to make Adrinette canon, while ladybug/marinette was litterally the one who hated Chat Noire being silly and unserious

[prisi]

I think writers/creators should keep in mind that not just because you dislike one of your characters means you should throw all of their development and potential out the window and give them unsatisfactory treatment in the narrative.

Good nigths.

[eddo-tensei]

This will never not make me laugh

In case you don't know what this is, this is all the sightings of Socqueline Wang in Season 5. Aside from her debut, she only had like two cameos before her big moment in Derision's flashback where she turned out to be this super important figure in Marinette's life...and then she just disappears from the season altogether after the flashback is over. Right after we find out how she got suspended, she just stops showing up for the rest of the season. She doesn't even appear in the present of the same episode or even cameo in the background in episodes afterwards. She's just gone. It's like after they showed her getting suspended and this epic farewell scene between her and Marinette where she rips off the Majesta speech from Alya (Because why not steal one more thing from Alya?), they just treat it as though she isn't in Paris anymore even though we saw her two episodes ago still helping her friends. All this does is serve to prove that Socqueline's entire character is just to provide tragedy for Marinette's backstory and nothing else. I can't even say this is salt for Socqueline because this feels like the writers throwing her out as soon as she apparently fulfilled her purpose in showing Marinette having a big sad because of mean old Chloe. She doesn't even appear in the background of Revolution in protest of Chloe, which you think she would considering how much she hated Chloe. It's an instance of them just creating a disposable character purely just to prove a point and instead of keeping her in the cast, they just throw her into the bin because she doesn't serve a purpose anymore. More people hate Chloe now and that's all that matters to the writers. Screw actually developing this character who's supposedly a great figure in one of our main character's lives. As far as the writers are concerned, she already fulfilled her purpose in the narrative and that's infuriating to me because of how utterly manipulative it all comes across as.

Is this irrational? Am I too upset at the treatment of what's basically a minor character in this show? You be the judge.

[crimsoncosmic]

So, apparently, an adult supervillain whose been terrorizing a city for years, rarely actually shows remorse for his actions and is also a neglectful and controlling parent because of the “death” of his wife is “sympathetic” and “redeemable”

but a teenage girl whose a bully because she has an abusive mother who constantly belittled her and can’t even remember her own name that she so desperately wants the approval of and a father who just spoils her to death, who showed remorse for her actions at times and was actually on the road to changing and becoming a better person after becoming a superhero before it was taken all away from her at the last second is “irredeemable” and “absolutely evil”.

Thomas Astruc’s logic is absolutely ridiculous.

[new-kit-on-the-block]

Miraculous - The watered-down significance of akumatization

(This is an analysis, but it's also a sort of rant. So there's a lot of text underneath the cut. Just a fair warning.)

I have a problem with the way that the latter seasons of Miraculous handle akumatization.

There's a pretty basic rule of thumb when it comes to writing the bigger moments of your story:

If something is a big deal, let it be a big deal.

Seasons 4 and 5 don't always do that.

Let's take a look at what I mean.

These are screenshots of the three separate occasions that characters have broken out of akumatization in seasons 4 and 5.

Take note of who these characters are and their importance (or lack thereof) to the overall plot.

On the one hand, you have Alya and Nino, the two main characters' respective best friends. It's only natural in a show like this for these two to be strong enough to break out of akumatization, it makes the main characters look like they definitely chose their friends right.

And then you have Alix's Redditor conspiracy-theorist older brother.

Why is he one of the big three who managed such a significant feat like this?

It's not like he's been shown to be particularly strong-willed. In fact, one could argue that he's even less so than most other characters due to how much further he fell into the rabbit hole of Lila's manipulation than anyone else.

His gullibility and irrationality are the entire reason he gets akumatized in the first place.

And he doesn't ever play a significant role after this, either. The only other time that he even had so much as a speaking role was the other time he got akumatized way back in season 1 for not being allowed to sacrifice someone to the Egyptian gods.

Now, these aren't the first times that people have fought back against Hawkmoth while being akumatized. But they are the first times that they've successfully broken out.

Pixelator questioned Hawkmoth's authority over him, and in response, Hawkmoth did something with his hand that started causing physical pain to Pixelator, reinstating his control over his akuma.

The only other time an akuma victim fought back was Robustus, which was a special case because he rebelled against Hawkmoth by using the specific abilities that were granted to him.

Neither of them even tried to escape akumatization.

Akumatization has always been set up as something powerful. Something that takes the worst parts of you and amplifies them to the point of no longer being capable of rational thought.

We never end up questioning why people don't try to resist akumatization if they know that they might end up hurting people. We already know the answer. It's because they can't.

Even Ms. Bustier, possibly the character who hated akumatization the most at the time, couldn't avoid becoming akumatized despite her best efforts.

So three separate people breaking free from their akumatization should imply that Gabriel's control over his victims is getting weaker, which would be a very big deal.

But nothing is ever done with that. After Alix's brother, nobody ever broke out of akumatization again. The ability to do so is used as nothing more than a plot device in these few episodes.

Another thing is that, if anything, Gabriel's grasp over his victims' emotional state should be even stronger.

His akumas are canonically more powerful than before, to make the lucky charms that Ladybug hands out stop working against him.

If bigger and more powerful akumas don't make his hold on people even stronger than before, then the entire arc of Ladybug realizing that she can create charms to prevent people from being akumatized more than once, and Hawkmoth's counter-arc of nullifying her efforts by simply creating bigger akumas was all just a complete waste of time.

After Guiltrip, I assumed that they were building up to Rose being able to break out of akumatization through her naturally positive nature alone, and then they would have an arc of her teaching others how to do the same.

Suffice to say, neither of those things happened.

Rose's "inner voice" that she's apparently had in her head this entire time doesn't serve any actual purpose other than to make her worthy of the pig miraculous.

To be clear: I don't have any issues with Rose's invisible illness never being mentioned at any point before Guiltrip. That's the entire point of an invisible illness.

My point is that Rose's ability to break free from negative emotion-based mind control is an extremely important ability that was never even so much as hinted at before or even brought up again any time after Guiltrip.

So, once again, it's just an extremely important one-off ability that doesn't matter and doesn't affect the stakes whatsoever.

These seasons keep throwing moments at us that should be very big deals but are never treated as such.

Now let's compare all of this to an actually good akumatization-related scene.

When Chloe successfully rejected akumatization.

When this happened, it was huge, and it felt like it too.

Not just because of how impressive the feat itself was, but also because of where Chloe was in her character arc.

Chloe was under the impression that Ladybug might never let her be Queen Bee again. Full stop.

She had potentially permanently lost a privilege that really mattered to her, Lila was starting to get inside her head, and she was becoming mean to Sabrina again.

By all accounts, Chloe should've been in the stage of her arc where she started to revert back to her old self. The old Chloe would've accepted Hawkmoth's words without a second thought.

If this was the conventional Zuko-style arc that so many writers try and fail to replicate, this would've been the scene where it seems like she may not actually get redeemed, and would fall back on old patterns of hers. Which is an interesting enough arc on its own.

But we instead have a girl who doesn't have any way of truly knowing better, has no good role models, and is close only to people who enable her worst behaviors. And she chooses to be good.

Her worst fears are starting to come true, nobody seems to have any care or respect for her, and a smarter and more experienced grown man is using all of these negative emotions against her to mind control her. And she still chooses to trust the process and work to gain back Ladybug's trust. Exactly like Ladybug told her to.

The one time she was given really good advice, it stuck with her.

This is the moment that flat-out confirms that Chloe can be redeemed, and actively wants to be better.

Not only did she not get akumatized, she almost made it look easy.

But the show still makes it perfectly clear that this wasn't an easy feat by any means.

She was visibly exhausted and scared after the akuma left, breathing heavily like she almost just drowned.

But the important part is that she did it. She didn't get akumatized. And she is shown to be rightfully proud of this fact.

It's also interesting to note that no other character has ever broken out of akumatization, mid-akumatization.

In the seasons to come, several people would be breaking out of akumatization after they had already been akumatized. But Chloe is the first, and only, person to reject akumatization before it even took hold.

That's how you give a moment like this the emotional weight that it deserves, by letting it stand on its own and not bombarding your audience with the same scene played out by several other characters.

Chloe was the only one to do this, and that shows that she could bring something special to the team if she actually got the chance to be a heroine again. It makes us consider the possibility that her stubborn and argumentative nature might actually end up being a silver lining. She can still be herself while saving people. In her own way.

She can be a hero. She can become a better person. And she doesn't have to change a thing about herself.

It would be a really nice message to send.

Which just makes it all the more disappointing when it doesn't amount to anything.

If the point of her character was that she could've been better, but became worse instead, that would've made for an interesting sort of tragedy.

But that's not what it is. I know that's not what the writers intended because if that were the case, then Ladybug would've probably had some lines about how much potential Chloe had, and how well she was doing before she went back to her old self.

We don't get any of that. What we get instead is the show and characters acting like Chloe was always as bad as she is in seasons 4 and 5.

She never actually liked Adrien. She was never kind to her father or Sabrina. She never wanted to get better.

And that's just not true.

Sorry, the main point of this post was to showcase the difference between important moments that were given the appropriate emotional weight, and those that weren't. But I just went off on a bit of a tangent there.

God. Even when this show gets something right, it gets like ten other things wrong.

Anyway, TDLR: If you want a moment to be significant, let it be significant. Let it make big changes that actually matter. Don't be a coward who's too afraid to change the hierarchy of your story in any kind of way that matters.

If you want a moment to have an impact on your audience, give it time to breathe on its own, and don't repeat it for at least a little while after.

And for God's sake, if an ability is a big deal, then don't let some unimportant side character that no one cares about also have that ability. It just makes it seem like it's not.

[gryficowa]

Watching videos commenting on miracolous episodes talking about racism is interesting (Especially when I'm older than when I watched them + I'm European, specifically Polish)

Note, if you are outraged by Chloe's defense, I'm sorry, but Europe and the US don't really have the same approach (Which can be frustrating for non-white Europeans)

First of all, the text about sushi… Sushi was created in China and then came to Japan, which means that this particular text by Chloe is not entirely racist, I know, shocking, but Thomas didn't do his homework before writing the episode, so it came out strangely

As for Chloe confusing a Chinese with a Japanese, unfortunately I have an explanation, it is related to the fact that in Europe they speak collectively, i.e. "Asian", so yes, if we assume that Chloe only dealt with Japanese, and not Chinese, it was unconsciously confuses them with each other (I remind you, this is Europe, not the USA, here the topic of racism is more complicated), anyway, I don't believe that she's the only one who confuses Asians with each other, because we're talking about Europe, where such confusion is more "Normal" (however it sounds), why is she the only one? Why don't any adults do this? This is unrealistic and distorts the reality in Europe

Besides, the very fact that the series is written by a Frenchman who has no clue about racism says a lot, hello, you live in a country where Muslims are persecuted (There is a ban on wearing hijabs), so what more can I say about all this?

It's unrealistic that only Chloe confuses a Chinese and a Japanese with each other, older generations should also have a problem with it, because the action takes place in Europe, not in the USA, plus, older generations are more racist than the younger ones (Because the younger ones have access to for information), so it doesn't make sense that none of the adults are racist, Thomas, do you know what country you live in?

So yes, taking the action in France, i.e. Europe, in practice made Chloe's racism seem even more strange, because they could make it seem that she is not the only person in the whole country who has a problem with it, but it is known that Thomas Astruc prefers to pretend, that in his country and in the whole of Europe racism does not happen (And only a white fourteen-year-old child is the only racist… Yes, it sounds bad)

Europe is not the USA, you could have searched the Internet for information about current acts of racism in your country or Europe itself to present them in your series, but you decided to do something that makes no sense because of the place of action which is France, it looks so unrealistic, when you are European and you know the approach of people from Europe, antagonizing Chloe for racism when she is a fourteen-year-old living in Europe (where such racism is more common, because it is not the USA), to punish her for… As a European, she does not have an attitude like Americans and she took bad examples from adult Europeans

Thomas' attitude towards Chloe is even worse for this reason, he forgets that children are not born racist, they acquire this through adults, the Internet and other media (Like the news), throwing Chloe on the pile for being racist is harmful, yes, we should talk about racism and fight it, but hate a child for being a racist, because adults taught her that? A child's mind is still developing, it shouldn't be done, educating children is necessary, so Thomas, you fucked up the whole series

As a European, I have more reason to criticize this series for how it ignores the very topic of racism in Europe in order to antagonize a child (Fictional, but a child), if you want to show racism, then use information about it, not create worse versions of racism from the 70s -those from America

I had to describe it because it's frustrating how Americans hate Chloe for racism and they have no idea what it looks like in Europe, instead of bashing Thomas for showing racism in such an unrealistic way, they attack a fourteen-year-old cartoon girl, it's fucked up on many levels

Thomas doesn't know anything about racism, especially in Europe, if he did, only Adrien and Marinette would know it's racism, and the adults, including Chloe, wouldn't see it as a problem because they're fucking adult Europeans and we have unrealistic shit that pretends to be that it is progressive because it talks about racism, but the truth is that there is nothing there, no realism in this topic (Compare to US productions from the 70's, even they did it better…), this episode would be better if it showed real racism, and not the one just to show how stupid Chloe is -_-

Yes, I had to get this out of the way because a lot of people in the fandom are Americans and they look at Chloe from an American perspective, the problem is that Chloe is not American, she is French and that changes the perspective, yes, racism is bad, but remember that in Europe operates on different levels and Thomas Astruc presented it so badly that if you are from Europe, you it hurts

[teamoon7]

Oh também tem o grupo de amigas da Mari: Mylene, Rose, Juleka e Alix

O que mais me incomoda nelas como um todo também é a insistência em QUERER que a marinette namore com o adrien, mesmo que às vezes ela sequer esteja muito afim e deixe isso explícito. Também tem toda a situação de "gangue dos segredos", com elas ficando extremamente decepcionadas (dentre outras causas) com a marinette não contando todos os segredos pra elas- basicamente, num geral não entendem muito o conceito de que alguém pode só NÃO QUERER fazer ou falar algo. E acho que, o principal: se dizem amigas da marinette mas, na hora de acreditar na lila, são as primeiras a virarem as costas. Quanto maior o nível de proximidade de um personagem com a marinette, mais absurdo é pra mim como eles sequer tentam OUVIR o lado dela quando se trata de briga com a lila. Então acabam sendo um grupo péssimo de amigas.

Agora, comentários (bem) pequenos específicos pra cada:

Mylene : A forma como mostram ela indo de "vou lutar contra esse problema" e "tenho medo de tudo" não é muito... gradual? Ambos sentimentos com certeza podem coexistir, mas sinto que existem episódios em que decidem seguir com um (como horrificador) e outros que decidem seguir com outro, como se ela não tivesse as duas partes. Só acho que tinham formas melhores de trabalhar com isso, mas no geral sou meio indiferente a ela, não sei se tem muito a comentar

Rose : Não acho que a pigella foi uma adição interessante pra personagem dela porque simplesmente ela é... basicamente a rose sendo a rose. Pra mim o que mais pode ser interessante pra um novo portador é ele ter que lidar com algum conflito que ele tem com ele mesmo, e a rose não tem simplesmente NADA que entre em conflito com o conceito do porco. Então ela como pigella sequer é desenvolvida, afinal quem tá lidando com um conflito pessoal no episódio é a própria juleka

Juleka : Parece que, sempre que focam nela, tentam repetir o exato mesmo arco... esse é um problema inclusive que a fluttershy de my little pony tem também: sempre que uma delas é foco, parece que só querem fazer elas aprenderem a falar em público, conseguirem ter voz e afins. E claro, isso não é algo que se melhora da noite pro dia, mas sinto que... meio que a forma que abordam todas as situações diferentes é bem similar, e por isso fica algo mais repetitivo do que gradual. Parece mais um reset a cada episódio do que pequenas mudanças com o tempo

Alix : Provavelmente a que tinha mais potencial do grupo de amigas secundário (especialmente considerando que em versões anteriores ela teria mais destaque no grupo). Mas usam ela tão pouco que sinto que até a cena dela recebendo a jóia do coelho ficou muito mais sem graça do que devia. Minhas maiores criticas à "alix" não são sobre ela em si, mas sim sobre a bunnix adulta. Mas sinto que elas são tão diferentes no quesito personalidade que não faz sentido colocar ambas no mesmo barco.

Acho que acabou que eu comentei menos sobre elas do que sobre os meninos kkkk mas é porque sinto que elas muitas vezes meio que... agem da mesma forma? E é justamente nesses momentos que elas são mais chatas, por isso não tenho tanto pra falar de cada uma individualmente. Parece que, em todo episódio que elas têm uma participação coletiva, elas agem como uma "mente coletiva" e querem SEMPRE fazer a mesma coisa, às vezes até... perdendo um pouco suas características individuais

(Honestamente eu meio que nem lembro direito de tudo dos personagens secundários hasahdausd então com certeza teve muita coisa que eu deixei de fora nessas críticas, se no futuro eu fizer/pedirem pra eu fazer críticas a episódios específicos, acho que eu lembraria melhor o que não gosto em cada personagem- até porque muitas vezes o que o personagem em questão fez de ruim é algo muito off character e uma crítica que só funciona pra aquele episódio em específico)

[motherofplatypus]

An idea that i don't see people talk about is Chloe being Adrien's sister figure. She had mommy issue earlier than Adrien, then when Emilie was dead, she felt unconscious responsibility to protect and take care of him. All of her affections are all platonic. That's why she hates when Adrien having new friends, bcs they took him away from her. Like, imagine if Chloe has brother complex.

I swear there's a lot that can be explored from their relationship if the writers aren't cementing themselves in "Make everything about Adrienette" and "Adrien is a damsel in distress".

Sigh, another day another wasted potential the show had.

[nixthelapin]

Anyone else think Marinette’s new outfit is just really bad?

I can’t claim to have that great of an eye for fashion, but this just looks like a tacky performer costume to me- the tights, the jacket looking like a fake tux, right down to the tiny bow tie that’s just sitting on her shirt- rather than an outfit an actual person would wear, especially someone who’s biggest dream is to be a fashion designer. And I don’t really think the pink of her shorts go well with the brown-gray leggings, the colors just feel off to me.

I want to like it, I think it has aspects I enjoy, but overall it just doesn’t do it for me and I kinda hate it.

Idk am I going crazy here? I haven’t seen a ton of discussion about her new design, so it’s hard to say what the general opinion is, but even if the stuff I have seen, it’s usually excitement for it, nothing really negative (design-wise, not about the narrative or overall direction of the show lol). But I’d really like to hear what others think about it.

[vennyvenadito]

The Fandom from Twitter scares me

Okay a really hate how Chloe being “racist” is enough for this people to say she is beyond redemption

Like how???

Yeah, be racist is a bad thing obviously but for character bad traits standards this is not the worst crime

At worst she is just ignorant

A lot of bully characters and even characters of her age the have done even worst than her were redeemed, if they can, so she

Also is hypocrite to say her age and trauma doesn’t excuse her but then you excuse Marinette and even Felix for their actions

And I would say it, I think Felix is even worst than Chloe

I’m sorry what???

Look me in the eyes and tell me, the Chloe from season 1 is the same as the 4 and 5 season

Like how???

She was a mean girl but not evil, just mean

And no, the writers didn’t fix her, Chloe suffered flanderization, her characterizations got over the place and acts way to out of character

How can this people say she doesn’t deserve a redemption when the show literally redeems an terrorist, a genocidal, a corrupt mayor and awful parents

If they can be redeem then a school bully also can

And if you still think just because a child is mean they are beyond redemption

Please, don’t have kids 💀

[weirdgirl92]

You know what? I’m gonna say it: Thomas Astruc is just the gender-flipped version of VivziePop!

[burgendee69]

Something I find interesting is how both marinette and adrien fans will say that the other is the narrative's favourite and they're both right and wrong at the same time. Marinette is never allowed to succeed because the writers need to make sales and continue the show because if it weren't for this out of character incompetence, Marinette would have defeated Gabriel by season 2. Adrien is never allowed to act because Marinette needs to be the centre of the story and the writers seem to think that this means no other character gets to do anything.