#moash crit

[eternally-tired-cryptid]

(Preface! Moash crit is tagged as #Moash crit bc I do not personally say the f-bomb, and I want it to be easy for folks to filter if they don't wanna see.)

This post isnt really like. Actually Moash crit. More of a dive into my thoughts on Moash and more into the bickering I see over whether Moash kicked a child. For me personally this isn't even one of my main reasons for disliking Moash, but I'm not gonna get into that unless people genuinely want to know.

Ok so here's the actual text. "Moash shoved aside the weeping prince with his foot."

So like. Idk maybe y'all are joking and I'm missing it but. When I say Moash kicked a child, I mean he shoved a child with his foot, which for a 4/5/6 (?) Year old is going to knock a kid over if they're standing bc like. Yes they're big enough to do stuff but balance is still harder for them than for adults.

I think some people see kicked and think drop kick? Or like, that the kick threw the kid across the room. I don't think it did, just out of the way, forcefully, whilst watch his dad die.

Idk but I keep seeing people seem to view this moment totally different and then bickering abt it (the stuff that gets thru I have all Moash discourse filtered tbh), so I thought I'd toss this out there

[kingjasnah]

you guys are so funny I feel like the cosmere tag went straight from moash crit to hey look a new fictional dude we know nothing about that we are going to bully out of the series

[cosmereplay]

Welcome to the tumblr cosmere fandom! Here's a list of common tags. I encourage you to use these tags to find the things you want and block what you don't want! Fellow tumblrinas feel free to add to this list:

#cosmere, #brandon sanderson, #cosmere fandom - general or wide ranging cosmere stuff

#cfsbf (cosmere fandom still best fandom) - for heartwarming stuff

#cfswf (cosmere fandom still worst fandom) - angst fics, complaining about other fans, hot takes from Brandon

#cremposting memes and such

Series tags! #Stormlight Archive, #Stormlight archives, #the Stormlight Archive, #tsa, #sla. Similarly, #Mistborn, #Mistborn era 1, #Mistborn era 2.

Spoilers! People are pretty good at tagging their spoilers. If you want to avoid spoilers for a book, block "book title", "title spoilers", and "acronym spoilers" and that should help you stave off the worst of it. Ex. #the lost metal, #the lost metal spoilers, #tlm spoilers. For a series, #mistborn spoilers. I've seen #secret project 1, #sanderson secret projects, #ssp1 spoilers, etc for the Secret Projects.

For characters, you might find different things by using first name only, full name, name plus topic. Ex #Shallan, #Shallan Davar, #Shallan fanart. For characters with common first names and no last name like Lift, use Stormlight as the last name, #lift stormlight. Same with #vin mistborn. Hoid's name is #hoid cosmere, of course ;).

Fanart! #stormlight fanart, #mistborn fanart, #arts arcanum

Fanfic! #stormlight fanfic, #mistborn fanfiction, #cosmere fic, #cosmere RP

Shipping! Here are some common ship names for your finding or blocking pleasure - #Kadolin, #Shalladin, #Shakadolin, #Syladin, #Kalinar, #Stormthorn, #KalMoash, #Rlainarin, #Kalarin, #Ravani, #Navaniel, and a lot more. You might also come across this format: #Kal x Moash, #Kaladin x Sigzil, etc.

Days of the week! #Moash loving Monday, #Rlain Rlendsday, #Thaidakar Thursday, #Mistborn fortnite friday

#zellionsweep if you want to pursue scholarship of the Zellion reveal and associated tumblr lore

Discourse! #discourse, #sanderson critical, #fan critical, #cosmere critical (sometimes shortened to crit), #moash discourse, #fuck moash - heavier discussions of important topics in the fandom

Sex stuff! #cosmere kink meme, #cosmere kink will turn up older writing prompts and short fics. #stormlight kink meme is a newer tag!

Some tips:

You can put spaces in tags!

If you add commentary in the tags, your followers, and anyone who looks in the tags specifically, will see your comments. Tags don't get reblogged unless someone likes them enough to add them to the post via screenshot or retyping them.

Add alt text to all images you upload, whether it's art or screenshots or memes. Because of Tumblr's ability to have longer text posts, it's also reasonable to add image descriptions to reblogs if the original image doesn't have alt text. Reblog and tag described posts with #described, #image description, #id in alt text, #alt text, #cosmere described to make it easier for people using screen readers to find it. Tag undescribed images with #undescribed or #not described so people using screen readers can block it.

[moash]

There's no chance Zellion could be a future version of Moash, and that works for me. I can barely take Moash seriously after how he was written in RoW, and I don't think I'll ever be able to take Zellion seriously after the Zellionsweep. If it turned out they were the same character? I might legit have to drop the series. This isn't even Sanderson Crit, it would just be too much for me and I don't think I could ever pick it up again.

why would you tell me, tumblr user moash, that you can’t take moash seriously

[elseweaver]

white cosmere fandom really is like “we feel empathy for systematically oppressed characters.... but only the ‘good ones’ who handle their trauma in a way that doesn’t make me feel uncomfortable and threaten my notions of correct forms of resistance”

[phendorana]

also, this is just a thought i had but it would have been super interesting, instead of the whole assassination plot, if we’d seen moash use his new status as a lighteyes to try and get justice for ana and da through the legal system. while the whole “elhokar is tien” thing is such a stretch, kaladin not wanting to jump to murdering the kind does seem pretty in character for him. and then i remembered that darkeyes of high dahn and lighteyes have the “right of inquest” (which lirin mentions he has in the whole roshone angry about the spheres incident) so i just think that would have been an interesting plot that could have explored the class dynamics and class privilege in a much more nuanced way. it’s also something that kaladin would probably be pretty on board with, so it would have brought a lot of the hidden class tension between bridge four and the kholins to a conflict 👀. the thing i noticed about wor is that dalinar is very eager to model minority kaladin in a way, so finding out that kaladin, despite working for him, doesn’t completely agree with his goals/priorities/morals would probably come as a shock to him. my assumption is that moash would try to invoke the right of inquest to look into ana and da’s murders, which would have possible political consequences for the kholins. dalinar being dalinar would probably try to monologue to kaladin the same way he did in wor to try and get him to dissuade moash, but then kaladin would actually refuse and argue with him about it. the possibilities make me go !!!!!

[mittai]

the good side of the stormlight archive, turtle duck, cute organization

omgggg this is the third time i’ve gotten my pfp mentioned and the second time someone’s mentioned my obsessive tagging system i really DO have a brand 🥺. also re: the stormlight archive thank you i try hear ye come to the dark side where we stan moash and ship navaniel we don’t have cookies but we DO have impromptu sanderson crit nights on the dash 👀😈🍪.

[eternally-tired-cryptid]

Listen shout-out to all y'all who like moash and recognize he is a nuanced and flawed character bc I do not understand the little crowd of moash lovers that are like "he didn't do anything wrong ever and the people who dislike him are stupid" I just. No? And in the reverse props to any fellow people who dislike moash but recognize he is a nuanced character who has done good and bad and the narrative purpose he holds, bc I do not understand the moash haters that are like "I don't like him as a person so therefore he's a bad character" like. He's nuanced and complex!!! You don't have to like him personally to understand his importance to the plot and what his story is and what it means for people!

[eternally-tired-cryptid]

Okay so I really haven’t paid much attention to Moash/Vyre in me reread of Oathbringer or my start of Rhythm of War read through

And I will first admit that my dislike of Moash/Vyre is honestly,,,, not the usual one? From what I’ve seen? For me it is... very specific.

I have like. Personal rules and boundaries and if someone breaks those I will never like or trust them ever again. (The exception being a kid (or anyone) who genuinely didn’t know better broke the rules, they get a chance as they grow up, but I might still avoid having them in my life). Moash, for me, broke those rules. I think there is potential for a redemption arc. I think there’s potential for a tragedy. I’m okay with either.

As long as his story doesn’t involve Bridge Four feeling obligated to forgive Moash. Bridge Four was built on trust and family and oaths. I understand why he did it from his perspective but he still betrayed people who deserved better from him. He still hurt people who trusted and loved him. If they naturally come to forgive Moash, fine. But I really can’t see any timeline where Moash becoming part of Bridge Four again would be healthy for anyone involved.

Another big thing that makes me unable to be okay with Moash is that he kicked a child??? To kill the man he hated... and saw no issues with that. Like. Don’t get me wrong I get why he wanted to kill Elhokar and from a writing standpoint his death was incredible. (His death was a loss of potential and I think it’s far more impactful than anything Elhokar actually would have accomplished). However, Gavinor is an innocent child who just wants his parents, and he gets kicked away before his father is murdered in front of him. That’s absolutely horrible and it seems like Moash saw no issue with the trauma he inflicted on that child (and if he did he decided feeling better was more important than an innocent child).

TL;DR: Moash/Vyre is a very complicated character and I have very detailed opinions on him. I don’t like him and personally never will, but I’m not opposed to wherever his story may be going.

Also I do enjoy listening to other perspectives when I have the mental energy. Though lately I haven’t so I’d prefer this doesn’t spark a discussion. If you have your own detailed thoughts bc of this I’d prefer you make your own post and link this one or something.

[eternally-tired-cryptid]

I don’t like Moash bc he... betrayed the people he cared about and who cared about him. He never took responsibility for his actions and instead hid away. He continued down the wrong path and again wouldn’t even admit to himself or others what he’d done

[kingjasnah]

can't wait for moash to have his redemption arc so i can make more posts about faith from buffy the vampire slayer

[phendorana]

12, 1, 3, 10

12. Is there an unpopular arc that you like that the fandom doesn’t? Why?

answered!

1. What OTPs in your fandom(s) do you just not get?

uhh probably kaladin/shallan especially in ob and before like by and large that just weirds me out like that one paragraph where kaladin is talking abt his crush on shallan in wor is sooo cringe it reads like cassandra clare or something. also y'know the racism. like there is zero chemistry and she treats him like shit at random times!

3. Have you ever unfollowed someone over a fandom opinion?

yeah lmaooo. like moash hate or elhokar apologism or the dalinar is the most honorable person ever crowd. by and large anyone who legitimately tries to defend characters' imperialism, classism, or racism. also people who are weirdly defensive of our #girlboss queens. like i do love jasnah, shallan, and navani as characters, but jasnah was complicit in her family's attempted genocide of the singers. navani is explicitly shown to not only have participated in, but orchestrated and lead the kholin's conquest of alethkar. and shallan also demonstrates incredible classism and racism throughout the series. obviously there's many shades of grey here, and some of these are far far worse than others, but i roll my eyes whenever people get all worked up trying to defend what any of them have done. also people who try to compare that one time kaladin was thoughtlessly sexist to lyn (and may i remind you he instantly got called out and actually had to reflect on his actions! in the text!) to shallan's repeated racism and classism, which goes completely unchecked, and even unacknowledged by darkeyed characters after a point. like you cannot act like kaladin has any material privilege over shallan in the books. or that his casual sexism is comparable to the violent oppression of the kholins & other lighteyes.

10. Most disliked arc? Why?

ok this is easy, it's that #NotAllLighteyes bullshit sanderson put kaladin through in wor, like that guy was being so goddamn restrained in the face of constant microaggressions, but sanderson was like "no actually he just needs to stop assuming the worst of those poor lighteyes <3" like how are you gonna have kaladin come to the bullshit "realization" that some lighteyes aren't racist by having him interact with a bunch of lighteyes who are racist to him lmaoo. like there's two parts to this: first of all, kaladin is perfectly entitled to being wary of lighteyes as a class given that they are all complicit in and benefit from the caste system + slavery, even if the individual lighteye in question hasn't been explicitly racist to him. second, even then the point falls flat because sanderson acts like kaladin is being needlessly rude to a bunch of good lighteyes, when in reality we see those lighteyes microaggressing him in the text. like does sanderson think that kind of behaviour is totally fine and not at all racist? hello?

[phendorana]

every day i get closer and closer to stanning moash like every time i hear moash is too far gone for redemption and “if you want a man who tried to suicide bait another redeemed clearly you support suicide baiting” like ok did you read oathbringer AT ALL did you get anything out of the fact that a literal mass murdering war criminal got a redemption arc in this series. i don’t think the man who suicide baited a guy is the least eligible for a redemption arc. the entire point of oathbringer was that nobody is too far gone for redemption, even a man who violently conquered an entire country and burned an entire town to death. the idea that dalinar’s redemption is fine but moash is too far gone is just like 😐 in what world do dalinar’s years of violent colonization compare to moash doing like 3 acts of evil 🤨

[phendorana]

anyways i have a lot of opinions on how dalinar frames elhokar’s murder of ana and da as a problem of incompetence slash naïveté. his excuse was, word for word, “anyway, do not blame elhokar. he was taking the advice of someone he trusted.” like wtf how you gonna explain elhokar being like “yeah i’ll throw two innocent people in jail for your business” as a well intentioned error? in WHAT way could elhokar have possibly have thought this was the right thing to do? how could you argue that he was misled into doing an evil thing that’s SO OBVIOUSLY EVIL? it’s such a weak excuse tbh, and one that makes no logical sense. i could maybe have given him the benefit of the doubt if the thing roshone asked elhokar to do seemed like an arguably good decision, with unintended consequences that elhokar was too naive to know about, but this isn’t a case of “well he got tricked into doing something bad” because throwing two innocent elderly people into jail to turn a profit for your friend is clearly not something that could be spun as a decision made by someone who was misguided but well intentioned.

[moash]

thinking about how moash’s fate rests solely in brandon sanderson’s hands. sick, twisted even.

[phendorana]

it’s sooo funny whenever i see a take like ‘moash literally suicide baited someone and killed a handful of innocent people obviously he’s a villain and too far gone for redemption’ like ok by that standard dalinar, adolin, and elhokar are literal megavillains. they spent 6 years fighting a genocidal war. i’m not defending what moash did in row, i just think compared to our protagonists he’s objectively done less awful shit lmao. i KNOW sanderson has set moash up on a villain route and i think he’s stupid for doing that.