#most the characters I can name got either retconned to not be aroace. or the fandom fights tooth and nail for them to not be aroace

[cosmicredcadet]

"Why is all aspec representation in media AROACE rep?" and is the aroace rep in the room with us right now?

[arotechno]

Jughead (2015), Aromanticism and Representation Part 1: The Mark Waid Fiasco

So, here’s the thing.

I was going to finish my arc-by-arc reread and review of the Jughead reboot. I was! But that was nearly a year ago now, and I kind of got distracted with a busy summer and moving and then a bunch of other stuff got in the way. And so really, I was going to finish. But the truth is, the last volume is either not super interesting for me to talk about or it’s the Mark Waid bit that I just really didn’t want to go through the trouble of getting screencaps and doing analysis for and so on. But I’m also not done talking about Jughead (I never will be) and I said before that I had some more overarching commentary I wanted to eventually put out, so here we are. So let’s talk about representation. Namely, I want to talk about the differences between Zdarsky and North’s portrayals of Jughead’s aromanticism. But in order to do that, we have to address the elephant in the room. We have to talk about Mark Waid.

First, a brief summary of volume three, just for context, since I never got around to it: Ryan North finishes off his run with a relatively lighthearted short arc where due to Jughead fucking up in a video game bet, the gang is forced to treat Reggie like a king for a week and do everything he says. They end up starting a really terrible band, things get out of hand, Jughead accidentally uploads a public video of them that implodes all of their social lives… it’s fun and goofy and can be basically summed up as Jughead Experiences Consequences, Wacky Hijinks Ensue.

The last two issues of the Jughead reboot ever released were written by Mark Waid and Ian Flynn. For the sake of focusing on the source material itself, the final arc consists of Sabrina accidentally casting a spell that makes everyone obsessed with Jughead. The problem is, since Jughead is super aroace and touch averse, this very quickly becomes a very uncomfortable situation. Now, I actually don’t hate these last two issues, and it’s not like Waid and Flynn retconned Jughead’s orientation or anything as drastic as that. The problem was with how the storyline was promoted and sensationalized prior to these issues even being released, and with Waid’s attitude in general.

I can’t find any record of Waid’s tweets about this because he deleted them all. Literally, I’ve searched his profile and all of his tweets from 2017 after January 5 are gone, or else Twitter is glitching like crazy. But there is this one that he wrote in reference to Trump not long before his Jughead run was announced, and uhh…

I don’t know how to explain why this is bad, but it made aspec fans very nervous to see this kind of behavior and then find out that Waid was picking up Jughead, an aroace character.

Further alarm was raised when the synopsis for the new storyline was announced. It originally read as follows:

“Sabrina the Teenage Witch tries to do something nice for Jughead, but it ends up creating a comedy of errors in which he is the most desired bachelor in town! From the new writing team of Mark Waid (Archie) and Ian Flynn (Sonic the Hedgehog).”

This was… concerning, to say the least. A cover art in which Jughead is depicted surrounded by women and grinning was also circulated, which made a lot of aroace fans very uncomfortable (though it should be noted that this was an alternative cover, and not the one drawn by Derek Charm that ended up in the issue):

Once issues 15 and 16 were eventually released, things kind of died down a bit, at least from where I was standing. Like I said, the storyline as it actually appears in the comics is not really all that bad. As a basic plotline, I don’t find it particularly problematic; however, the issue that I still have with it to this day is that it doesn’t feel like it was written or promoted for aspec people to enjoy. It was a storyline about borderline sexual harassment that was played entirely for laughs for a straight audience, right down to the way it was described in the initial synopsis for issue 15. Zdarsky and North, in different ways, both wrote with what I felt was a great deal of care and attention paid to making sure Jughead’s orientation was portrayed respectfully without being his entire character. I don’t know what role Ian Flynn had in all this, because all of the criticism and back-and-forth that eventually got deleted seemed to be focused on Mark Waid—but needless to say, issues 15 and 16, while not bad writing, feel a lot more careless than aspec people deserved.

I don’t think Mark Waid is an awful person and my intention isn’t to restart the discourse or “cancel” Waid by posting this. I think he’s a deeply flawed person and kind of an asshole who wasn’t the right person to write Jughead and treated fans very disrespectfully in response. I think he’s a coward for deleting the evidence, and I’m disappointed that issues 15 and 16 were the last that we ever got, but at the same time I shudder to think what worse damage he may have done in later issues had he been given the chance. This is the exact opposite of how I feel about the Zdarsky and North arcs, and I want to talk about that more in a later post (that one will be more fun!), but for now I felt that I could not get into a deeper commentary on aro representation in the Jughead reboot without addressing Mark Waid first. It felt disingenuous not to.

Anyway, before I go I just want to add that when I went onto Mark Waid’s Twitter, I found out that today, by complete coincidence, happens to be his birthday. So I hope he enjoys this gift of continuing aro rage. <3

And if any of you happen to find those tweets (or anything else pertinent to this discussion that I missed), please let me know!

[langwrites]

Tag Game: 10 Questions:

Rules: Answer the questions, then create 10 more, and tag people.

Tagged by: @owlsofstarlight

1. Would you date any of your ocs?

Hmmm.

You know, given that I’m the cause of all their misery, ultimately, that would be a terrible idea.

If I had to choose (and not die), hrm. Well, Naviyd. Probably.

2. What kind of poster(s) would your oc have on their wall?

Naviyd has his father’s rather inaccurate, theistic world maps on his wall. They’re stitched somewhat haphazardly among more accurate records, diagrams, and a wonky drawing of what might someday be a pulley system.

And one nice sketch of a family of four, made by Khalil when he was six years old. It’s more aspirational than accurate, but Naviyd kept it there throughout his son’s entire absent adolescence.

3. If your oc found a time machine, would they use it? for what?

He’d probably tell himself to fight Zahara for custody of both twins.

4. Do any of your ocs have a catchphrase? If so, what?

Naviyd doesn’t see much point. Dude used to basically kill Kaltekan generals as a sacred mission, and he sure wasn’t going to make a career of that by sticking around and monologuing.

5. Tell me about one of your ocs hobbies.

Naviyd studies maps and architecture—which is why Gabilan is a lot more cavernous, winding, and mazelike than its squad design would imply—and spends his free time hunting from horseback with a bow. He does it mainly to keep his skills sharp.

If he wants to have fun, he finds someone and strikes up a friendship if he hasn’t already.

6. What inspired one of your favorite ocs?

I couldn’t choose. So, you get four.

Naviyd was inspired by...hm. Basically, I read a section of a Dungeons and Dragons Monster Manual (probably 3.5) and spotted the entry on copper dragons. My next thought was, “I’ve gotta have one of those.” Several more thoughts, several years, and one quick jaunt through CYB later, and Rikuto back-retconned his way into Naviyd’s personality, resulting in what he is today.

Oceanus was half-inspired by a wacky combination of Edward Elric and this dude named chaos (all lowercase) from Xenosaga. His affinity for storms is derived from a combination of my attempts to make a sorcerer character (D&D again), and the powers of Darker than BLACK’s Agent November 11 and BK-201/Black Reaper/Hei. He, too, has been through a lot of revisions to soften and sharpen different parts of his personality, until we get the procupine we have today.

Alena, for her part, is pretty directly derived from the powerset displayed by Tsunade back when I was first watching Naruto in like…middle school? She got a fancy coat from some bolt of inspiration I can’t recall now, and her personality ended up just being like… What I admired about people who could keep their kindness and strength in tough times. I think I read a few pretty dark stories the year I really worked nailing her personality down.

And finally, Lumina. Hoo boy. Originally, she was just a derivation—the spare, the younger twin, the goof to Alena’s mother’s stern nature. And over the years, Lumina went from the mere mirror to a stone-cold badass the more I read about some real shitty common tropes—the idea that a woman’s strength was always derived from a man, or that a queen couldn’t rule on her own, and so on. I thought, “Fuck that and the horse it rode in on,” resulting in this terrifying paladin who was just always good, regardless of what others thought.   

7. What kind of clothes does your oc like to wear?

Naviyd will wear anything that is a) warm and b) looks good on him. In that order. If he has a choice between almost dying of frostbite or impressing a foreign dignitary, he’s gonna pile on those furs and demand Lumina heat the castle somehow, dammit.

He tends to get a lot of his work done while wearing just a plain shirt and pants, slippers, and the biggest blanket he can find.

8. Does your oc believe in love at first sight?

Naviyd used to. It did not pan out at all.

Oceanus doesn’t, at least as far as it pertains to him.

Alena does.

Lumina does not, and never has.

9. If you took your ocs for one story and put them in an au, what au would you choose?

I kinda already did that, by allowing all of these Terramir kids to wander over to CYB. Granted, some of them didn’t have the longest lifespan, but I’m generally content with the way that worked out.

10. What is something your oc is afraid of?

Naviyd is afraid of bears. Does that count?

Siri’s questions:

1.What was the trickiest bits of worldbuilding you have ever done?

Tryin’ to figure out what the fuck was going on with Alanrian politics. They’re a mess of squabbling states, and I still can’t remember why.

And most of the rest of the continents are just kinda...there. Like, the Mishik come from a different continent entirely, as do the Xinfanese, but those aren’t visited during the course of the plot because the thing focuses on stopping an impending apocalypse that the Kaltekan Civil War allowed to happen.

It’s their responsibility.

2.Do you have any maps(you don’t need to post the map)? What was your favorite part of developing your geography?

Cooking the macaroni afterward.

3.Does your story have magic? What are its limitations, if yes?

They do have magic, but the upper limit varies from person to person…and being to being. It’s usually a question of what’ll kill you first. That’ll be your limit. Creatures born in the Dreamscape have an instinctive grasp of magic, though they may not be the strongest, and can generally only cross over to the real world when either stumbling through a random hole or finding a human counterpart to latch onto.

Dragons are… another story. They’re basically mid-tier gods, and they can’t walk the mortal world without a vessel.  

4.Does your main antagonist believe in god?

Well, dragons all do. They have a memory of their ancestors literally meeting the gods, wayyy back in their mythology.

5.Do you have secondary villains?

At least three, yeah.

6.How many words are your drafts?

I have no fuckin’ idea.

7.What is your favorite method of outlining?

Not to do so?

8.Which one of your ocs is queer?(if multiple, mention them all!)

Uh. The ones that I remember off-hand:

Oceanus (demihet bi)

Alena (demipan)

Khalil (aro pan)

Tirane (bi)

Riyaz (aroace)

Mitra (agender aroace)

Lumina (demibiro het)

Naviyd (aro demibi)

9. If you took your ocs for one story and put them in an au, what au would you choose? (Stealing from above cause this was a fun question)

CYB, natch.

10.Which of all the names in all your books, including characters, places, animals etc., is your favorite?

The names?

Hm.

I think my favorite stroke of brilliance was Lumina’s name in the first place. Sure, it means “light” in at least one language, but the fun part is that it’s also an unit of measurement for levels of light. Once I realized I could make a theme, I started spreading it around. Her sister became Luxana, while her older niece is Alena, both of which mean “light” as well. Her family last name, adopted upon being raised to nobility, is also an old reference to how people used to measure light: Lambert. Her sister’s last name now means “fire,” which is, again, a source of light.

And so on and so forth. There’s a theme.

I ain’t gonna tag anyone since it’s late and my brain’s fried. Night, all.

[aromichaelshelley]

[ID: tags which read "#genuinely WHERE? WHERE is the supposed magical aroace rep that is taking up ALL the aspec rep #point me in that direction and no characters who are just ace DONT FUCKING COUNT BUDDY #most the characters I can name got either retconned to not be aroace. or the fandom fights tooth and nail for them to not be aroace #because they never said the words outloud so there for it doesn't count #and other characters are side characters and are characters that can be ignored #like maybe instead of complaining about the nonexistent aroace rep you should be doing something more productive #like genuinely we dont have enough aspec rep to be complaining about too much of it being of one identity". End ID]

"Why is all aspec representation in media AROACE rep?" and is the aroace rep in the room with us right now?