#ned reveals jon as Rhaegar’s son before he dies

[myimaginationplain]

I've found that when it comes to discussing who has the best claim to the iron throne and/or the Targaryen dynasty, there's often this implicit assumption that when Jon finds out about his true parentage, the knowledge will inevitably leak to the general Westerosi public. People love to theorize about whether or not the Northerners would continue to support Jon if his being Rhaegar's son came to light, or if he would be pushed as heir to the iron throne over Dany & Aegon, & I'm just like...how would any of them find out about it? Why would any of them find out about it?

I feel like some people believe that when Jon finds out about R + L = J, he'll, I dunno, send out news letters about it or something? Publicly renounce his status as Eddard Stark's son? I don't exactly understand what people think Jon would do with the information, but anything less than keeping as tight a lid on it as possible would be very out of character for Jon. Guys, we're talking about the same guy who purposefully gave a young mother the wrong baby. He's not gonna be cavalier about this.

The only people we can really be certain he'd feel the need to tell the truth to are Arya & Sansa. We know that Bran is likely to already know the truth himself by then through his greenseer tree-god bullshit; Rickon, even if he is found & taken to Winterfell by the time the other siblings reconvene (which I find highly unlikely), would probably be considered too young to trust with information like that.

Daenerys is also an extremely likely candidate for being one of the few people Jon would tell, although this is variable, as it depends on what sort of relationship you believe she & Jon will have by the time R + L = J is revealed. I for one am betting on she & Jon already being involved in some capacity by the time he finds out, thus making her one of the people he'd tell. But if you're in the camp of people who think they'll be enemies by then, he probably wouldn't tell her in that scenario.

Sam is furthest down on the very short list of people Jon would probably tell. I think it's likely, seeing how much he trusts Sam & leans on him for support. But still, it's not a sure thing.

So, including Howland Reed (who has successfully kept the secret for ~17 years now), that makes just 6-7 people who would be privy to Jon's parentage. None of whom would have much motivation to go screaming about it from the hilltops in any scenario where they're still behaving like themselves. (If any of you bring up show!Sansa here, then I'm gonna beat you with a hammer. Don't be a hypocrite; if you can acknowledge & accept that literally every other character was wildly ooc in Season 8, then do the same with Sansa. Betraying Jon's trust after swearing not to before a heart tree is just as ooc for book!Sansa as purposefully burning Kings' Landing to ash would be for book!Daenerys.)

Even in the event that Jon rides a dragon, I think that can easily be explained away by lying about Jon's mother. "Oh, why can I ride a dragon? Not many people know this, but my mother was actually a Lyseni whore. You know they have some Valyrian blood in them. She died in childbirth, though, which is why my lord father took me in." Who's gonna call his bluff on that? Ned's resolute silence on Jon's mother would absolutely work in his favor. The historical precident set by Nettles & others like her means that Jon can 100% just say his mother was the daughter of some unknown dragonseed or something.

IMO, the real question we should be asking is, if Jon were to have children, would he ever tell them the truth?

[nightswatchdisbandmentera]

Ned's Tower of Joy dream is an interesting case study on how GRRM employs the three part revelation strategy. Because Ned's questioning of the kings guard and their subsequent answers basically falls into:

Q: Why are the kingsguard at the Tower of Joy? They could be anywhere else but they're here? Why??

A: They are there to fulfill their duty to the king.

See, Ned asks them three questions that get to the heart of revealing why the kingsguard are present where Lyanna (and Jon, per RLJ) are. Because if the kingsguard's primary duty is to protect the king, and if each set of question and answer reaffirms that the KG at the tower were doing their duty, then we can discern that Rhaegar's son is the king at that moment in time. Each question and answer reveals more information than the last, which falls into the three part strategy as observed by GRRM's editor, Anne Groell.

[...] I’ve realized his three-fold revelation strategy, I see it in play almost every time. The first, subtle hint for the really astute readers, followed later by the more blatant hint for the less attentive, followed by just spelling it out for everyone else. It’s a brilliant strategy, and highly effective.

How this strategy plays into the ToJ dream is that GRRM starts with

planting a little seed of doubt by questioning the kingsguard's whereabouts

then he follows up with bringing to attention the fact that they have not yet sworn fealty to the new king

then finally spelling it out that their presence here rather than elsewhere signifies that the king is close at hand - in the very tower where this confrontation is taking place

For the astute observer who has figured out that R+L=J, this is a very important piece of information regarding Jon's status at the time. Because he has so far been introduced to us as Ned Stark's bastard. But now, this sequence of information plays into the larger theme of Jon being presented as a hidden king.

So let's take a more detailed look at how this plays out in the dream once Ned confronts the ghosts of the kingsguard.

P.S: Ok, I lied. Ned actually asks them four questions. But four is not so nice a number as three so whatever. The point remains.

Q1: Three other kingsguard were fighting with the crown prince at the Trident. Yet these three remained. Why?

A1: Their duty was not to go to the Trident but to remain at the ToJ

“I looked for you on the Trident,” Ned said to them. “We were not there,” Ser Gerold answered. “Woe to the Usurper if we had been,” said Ser Oswell.

This first set means to establish a timeline. We know that Rhaegar was last at the tower (well, that is before he went to Kings Landing and then to the Trident). Rhaegar even took three other kingsguard to battle with him: Jonothor Darry, Barristan Selmy, and Lewyn Martell.

These three kings guard at the ToJ should have gone with Rhaegar because after all, it's their duty to fight for the king and his cause. But they were left at the TOJ. And we can assume that this was per Rhaegar's orders as GRRM himself confirms that if Rhaegar told them to stay at the tower, then they would've had little power to disobey him.

But Rhaegar died at the Trident. So why did they choose to remain? And even though this conversation is happening within a feverish dream (thus opening up the possibility that these words were not the actual ones that were exchanged in real history), it still seems that by the time Ned got to the tower the kingsguard already knew of Rhaegar's demise.

So why did they remain?

Q2: Jaime Lannister, a member of the kingsguard, was in King's Landing slaying their king. Why were these three not there to avenge Aerys? Isn't their primary duty to protect the king?

A2: Aerys is dead, but the kingsguard still has to do their duty which is to remain at the tower.

“When King’s Landing fell, Ser Jaime slew your king with a golden sword, and I wondered where you were.” “Far away,” Ser Gerold said, “or Aerys would yet sit the Iron Throne, and our false brother would burn in seven hells.”

Once again, the language used here suggests that they knew of their king's demise. They did not go with Rhaegar to the Trident, and then Rhaegar died. Who knows how fast information travels, but these three still chose to remain at the tower despite his death. Afterwards, they did not make an effort to find Aerys, nor did they make an effort to go and avenge him once he was dead. They swore an oath to remain at the tower, and that is exactly what they did.

But with Rhaegar dead and with Aerys dead, they're now running out of excuses to remain at the tower. Though they may be fiercely loyal to the vows they swore to their prince, they also have a primary duty to obey their king and they could've performed that elsewhere. Especially now that there's a new king in town...

Q3: Ok, their king is dead and the entire realm now swears fealty to a new king. All the knights, honorable and dishonorable, have bent the knee. But what about them? Why are they here?

A3: They have a duty to remain at the tower. A duty they fulfill as members of the kingsguard, and one that cannot be transferred easily.

“I came down on Storm’s End to lift the siege,” Ned told them, “and the Lords Tyrell and Redwyne dipped their banners, and all their knights bent the knee to pledge us fealty. I was certain you would be among them.” “Our knees do not bend easily,” said Ser Arthur Dayne.

What's interesting about this is that they seemingly reject Robert as their king. It's a reaffirmation of their first answer to Ned's first question. "Woe to the Usurper if we had been [at the Trident]”. So Robert is not their king. But the primary duty of the kingsguard is to serve the king. Their behavior so far gives the impression that they are fulfilling it. But it's rather strange, isn't it. Who are they fulfilling their duty to if not Robert?

And Ned knows this. If they reject Robert as their king, who else is there to support? Rhaegar is long dead. Aerys was slain by their own sworn brother. And Rhaegar's son and heir met his end at the hand of Gregor Clegane. Their duty is sworn to the Targaryen line, but it has been snuffed out. So why are they here?

But Ned asks a final question that is, in a way, a nail in the coffin. It answers the question: they serve the king but which one?

Q4: Fine! Robert is not their king. And Rhaegar, Aerys, and Aegon are dead. Well...there is Viserys, who would have been Aerys' heir after Rhaegar. He's not dead. So why are they not with him?

A4: They do not go to Viserys because their duty as kingsguard(!) is not with him.

“Ser Willem Darry is fled to Dragonstone, with your queen and Prince Viserys. I thought you might have sailed with him.” “Ser Willem is a good man and true,” said Ser Oswell. “But not of the Kingsguard,” Ser Gerold pointed out. “The Kingsguard does not flee.” “Then or now,” said Ser Arthur. He donned his helm. “We swore a vow,” explained old Ser Gerold.

This is the final revelation and it answers the key question in all of this. The kingsguard performed their duty by guarding their king at the Tower of Joy. They are not serving Aerys by remaining there. And they are also not doing Viserys, who is currently at Dragonstone, any favors. Whatever vow they swore as kingsguard relates to the ToJ. And we know (per RLJ) that the two people at the tower are Lyanna Stark and Jon Snow, Rhaegar's last surviving son and heir.

We're given two key pieces of information with the last two sets of question and answer in regards to the kingsguards performing their duty by guarding Jon at the tower. First when Arthur Dayne says that, "our knees do not bend easily". Of course, they do not bend for Robert the usurper as we already know...

...But, the start of the dream features a very important detail.

Ser Oswell Whent was on one knee, sharpening his blade with a whetstone. 

Ser Oswell has already bent the knee. And he means to fight for the king he has sworn a vow to since he is preparing his sword.

Then we have Ser Gerold 'pointing out' (thus bringing attention to) the fact that though Prince Viserys and Queen Rhaella are still alive and under the protection of a good knight, they are not under the protection of kingsguard. The kings guard does not flee - they stand their ground and fight for their king. And this is again asserted by Ser Gerold who reminds Ned that “we swore a vow.”

So we have a three four part revelation that the last stand at the ToJ involved protecting little Jon who, at that time, was recognized as king by the three knights.

This doesn't end here. Jaime's ASOS dream also has him confront ghosts of the pasts and the question of oaths comes up, as it did in Ned's dream. The two dreams intersect when the topic of the kingsguard's duty comes up. And we see that as it was in Ned's dream, the three knights at the ToJ were fulfilling their primary oaths to protect (and die) for their king.

“I swore an oath to keep him safe,” [Brienne] said to Rhaegar’s shade. “I swore a holy oath.” “We all swore oaths,” said Ser Arthur Dayne, so sadly. [...] “He was your king,” said Darry. “You swore to keep him safe,” said Whent. “And the children, them as well,” said Prince Lewyn. [...] “I never thought he’d hurt them.” Jaime’s sword was burning less brightly now. “I was with the king …” “Killing the king,” said Ser Arthur. “Cutting his throat,” said Prince Lewyn. “The king you had sworn to die for,” said the White Bull.

Once again, we have the affirmation that the kingsguard swear vows to protect their king even if it leads to their deaths. And as we know, all these kingsguard died during Robert's Rebellion. Three died at the Trident with Rhaegar, fighting for their king's cause. So why are the other three who were at the ToJ lumped with them?

Of course, this is Jaime's conscious. And his relationship with Dayne, Hightower, and Whent is very different from Ned's. But the point remains that as the narrative suggests, they too died for their king. They fulfilled their oaths to completion. But the king they died for was not Aerys or Aegon or Viserys. Their king was a tiny babe - Jon Snow.

Though this feverish dream is part of a much larger reveal (that is R+L=J), Ned’s conversation with the three kingsguard plays into one of the key motifs in Jon Snow’s arc - that is his identity as the king. Not a king. But THE king.

What makes the three part revelation so interesting in this passage is that not everyone has figured R+L=J out. But to the astute observer, this key passage is just another piece of important evidence that plays into the hidden prince trope that RLJ falls under. And not only that, it yet another instance of Jon being recognized as the true king by the narrative.

[asoiafcanonjonsnow]

Snow Bros: The Parallel Journeys of Simon and Jon Snow

Simon Snowlock Art: Credit || Jon Snow Art: Credit

It’s not a secret that George R.R. Martin was inspired by the fantasy series “Memory, Sorrow & Thorn” when he was writing ASOIAF. Here is what he has said himself on the subject:

"Tad’s fantasy series, The Dragonbone Chair and the rest of his famous four-book trilogy was one of the things that inspired me to write my own seven-book trilogy."

Source

The premise of “Memory, Sorrow & Thorn” is the political turmoil in a country after the King dies while in the far North, supernatural creatures are about to destroy mankind. Sounds familiar, doesn't it?

We won’t list here all the similarities between those two series (which are a lot, mind you!) because the focus of this meta are the parallels between Simon Snowlock (MS&T's Main Character) and our Jon Snow.

Both start their series as fourteen year old boys who are unaware of their true royal lineage. Simon’s father was a descendant of Eahlstan Fiskerne King of the Hayholt. Rhaegar Targaryen was the son and heir to King Aerys II Targaryen and through his father, he is the descendant of all the Targaryens that ruled Westeros.

Simon’s father was already dead by the time he was born while his mother lived long enough to name him (his real name is Seoman, by the way!) before she died in her childbirth bed. Similarly, Rhaegar died at the Trident before Lyanna gave birth to Jon. Lyanna lived long enough to ask her brother to protect her son “Promise me, Ned” and perhaps to also to name him? There is a lot speculation within the fandom that Jon was given a different name by his mother. "He was no Aemon Targaryen." (wink, wink) Perhaps a Targaryen one, befitting a son of a Targaryen Prince?

Simon lived his whole life as a kitchen boy in the Hayholt’s castle, like Jon lived his as a bastard of Winterfell. People in Hayholt’s castle called him “Ghost Boy” and interestingly enough, that’s the name Jon choses to give to his beloved Direwolf, 'Ghost'.

At the beginning of the first book, both characters are forced to leave their childhood home and their story is heavily intertwined with the supernatural creatures of the North.

Both boys have powerful, magical dreams. Simon has his prophetic visions and Jon has his wolf dreams, and some prophetic visions (him seeing Benjen dying), the crypt dreams that haunt him.

During Simon’s fight with an ice dragon, he gets a scar to his left eye and also a lock of white hair and he is said to be “marked by the dragon”. Jon already has a similar scar but he doesn’t have a lock of white hair. Could he possibly acquire that post his resurrection as a hint for his true lineage? Simon also gains the nickname “Snowlock” because of his hair and well that sounds too similar to Jon’s surname.

At some point in the series, Simon falls into a coma state being between life and death. A little girl, Leleth, is showing him visions of the past, while princess Maegwin sacrifices herself transferring her energy to him so he can return to his body. For all we know, Jon is dead by end of ADWD but it’s obvious that Martin is far from over with his story. Could he possibly enter a state between life and death where someone (Bloodraven perhaps?) will reveal to him the truth of Robert’s Rebellion aka the secret of his birth? Also, Melisandre believes that she needs to sacrifice “two kings to wake the dragon” what if she does that believing that she will gain a stone dragon hidden within the Wall but instead she wakes the son of the dragon, aka Jon Snow?

It is interesting to mention here that Simon ends up the series as King of the Realm despite the fact that he was never among the candidates who fought for the Dragonbone Chair. He is the unlikely King. Likewise, gaining a throne couldn’t be further from Jon’s current mindset. However Jon, thanks to his Targaryen lineage and King Robb’s will, could end up becoming King of Westeros or King in the North. We are not saying that alternative endgames don’t exist for him, but him ending up as a King isn’t a far fetched theory, either. In case he does end up King, he could either rule alone or be a co-ruler together with his wife. After all, Simon - the character Jon’s was inspired from- was aided in his ruling duties by his wife Queen Miriamele.

[reginarubie]

The update was wonderful as expected. And already sets the stage wonderfully for how delicate the peace within the realm truly is. Although I do wonder how long Ned and rhegs has been dead for? I assume rhegs died first then Ned meaning Aegon has been king for a while before sending Jon north to fetch a hostage I mean bride.

Also why didn't ned contact his sister after Jon was born?

Hi nonny,

thank you! THANK YOUUUUUUU!

Actually, to answer some of your questions, you should have a look at the new chapter — Addendum —Tyrion — and see what has been going on in the last twenty years in the court at KL.

With a Northern bride at his side and a half Stark son to his name, Aegon could solidify the peace that Rhaegar had strenuously built. He could stabilize the Realm, or he could doom it. (...) Tyrion would make sure to be on the victorious side. Always.

So, has the tension been building for years inside the Royal family, and even more, around them for how fragile the peace Rhaegar built actually was, just as you supposed. More will be revealed as the story continues!, so stay tuned!

As always thank you, sending all my love ~G.

[adecila]

Oh i want one fic, "one", were ned says yes to cersei and becomes joffrey hand and cerseis lover 😭

Oooh this would make for a fun AU. Unfortunately saying yes to Cersei would be a bit ooc, but a good author with the right set up could make it work 😏

So petitioning the capable nedsei writers for this one 🥺🥺🥺

[cappymightwrite]

What are your thoughts on Ned Stark ?

Hi!

I have conflicted feelings on Ned. Probably just below Stannis, he's the Westerosi man most in need of therapy, in my opinion. Actually, that's an interesting comparison — Ned and Stannis, which I know has been commented on before. They're alike in many ways, in terms of reserve etc., which makes the fact that Robert saw Ned as his true brother all the more painful to Stannis (though of course this is never explicitly stated). But anyway, back to Ned.

There's certain things I struggle with in regards to Ned, even though I understand the reasoning behind his actions, or rather, inaction. So, it makes thinking back on him in a wholly positive and fond light somewhat difficult, as I suppose it must be for Sansa in a way, as well as for Jon, once his parentage is revealed. I don't wholly dislike him though, I actually value him a lot, I just take issue with:

Him never apparently trusting Catelyn enough to be honest about Jon's parentage (+ the way he avoids telling Jon, to some extent)

No matter how loving they were... there is this unresolved (and now forever unresolved) barrier at the heart of their relationship, an unequal exchange of trust, which was within Ned's power to lift, to make fully mutual. But he didn't. Now, he had his reasons, self-sacrificing and seemingly honourable as they may appear, and certainly the narrative required this secret to be kept. But even so, in terms of how I regard his character? It rubs me the wrong way because he never gave her the opportunity to sympathise and fully understand him, he cut himself off from that. And yeah, maybe it might not have improved Jon's situation all that much, but he never gave Cat the opportunity to think of him differently, in a way that wasn't dictated by the social mores of their world:

It had taken her a fortnight to marshal her courage, but finally, in bed one night, Catelyn had asked her husband the truth of it, asked him to his face.

That was the only time in all their years that Ned had ever frightened her. "Never ask me about Jon," he said, cold as ice. "He is my blood, and that is all you need to know. And now I will learn where you heard that name, my lady." She had pledged to obey; she told him; and from that day on, the whispering had stopped, and Ashara Dayne's name was never heard in Winterfell again.

Whoever Jon's mother had been, Ned must have loved her fiercely, for nothing Catelyn said would persuade him to send the boy away. It was the one thing she could never forgive him. She had come to love her husband with all her heart, but she had never found it in her to love Jon. She might have overlooked a dozen bastards for Ned's sake, so long as they were out of sight. Jon was never out of sight, and as he grew, he looked more like Ned than any of the trueborn sons she bore him. Somehow that made it worse. – AGOT, Catelyn II

"It was the one thing she could never forgive him" — yeah, me too honey! Ok, sure, we don't know for sure if Cat might have "overlooked" Jon's uneasy place in their household "for Ned's sake", if she knew he was actually her nephew — the world would still believe him to be Ned's, so to outward appearances the awkwardness is still there. And yeah, we don't know if she could have "found it in her to love Jon", but the truth certainly would have made it far more likely! But Ned decided that it had to be this way, that only he could participate in carrying this secret. So, I hurt for Cat AND Jon really.

I get why he doesn't tell Jon the truth. I understand his warped logic, how the trauma of his past informs this sort of self-punishing mentality of I must keep this honourable promise made of love till the day I die even though to the outside world it will appear as a stain upon that very honour... and to punish myself further for failing Lyanna I will never unburden myself to anyone, this is my cross to bear alone. I understand that, it's very manpain-y. But the problem is... it doesn't just punish Ned, it punishes Cat and Jon, and his other children too! Because they are by no means blind to this elephant in the room of their parent's marriage, and it's hard to rationalise:

He looked at her uncomfortably. "My aunt Allyria says Lady Ashara and your father fell in love at Harrenhal—"

"That's not so. He loved my lady mother." – ASOS, Arya VIII

Your father loved your mother, but he also had a child with another woman, whose identity he would never talk about. Your father loved your mother, but his dedication to this secret ultimately trumped being fully honest and open with her. It's hard not to feel that Ned's present came second to making up for the "sins" of his past. This is why he desperately needed therapy, lol, because (to take a line from my Byronic Hero meta) Ned's "traumatic past informs his present life," and to the detriment of that present life and those present relationships as well. But hey, that's the tragedy.

Also, I think his whole I'll tell you the truth when I next see you to Jon is really sketchy, because when exactly might that be, Ned? An avoidance tactic if I ever saw one. But really, I don't think he'd be emotionally equipped to have that conversation anyway... he might have said he'd tell him someday, but deep down, I'm sure he hoped he may never have to. And then he conveniently dies, taking the secret with him (or so we think)!

Allowing the death of Lady

Bran's wolf had saved the boy's life, he thought dully. What was it that Jon had said when they found the pups in the snow? Your children were meant to have these pups, my lord. And he had killed Sansa's, and for what? Was it guilt he was feeling? Or fear? If the gods had sent these wolves, what folly had he done? – AGOT, Eddard IV

"And for what?" Yes, quite. I don't really have much to say on this... I think this passage speaks for itself. There's probably some other things I could talk about, but those are my main two gripes.

That being said... what I value about Ned are his words of wisdom

The thing about Ned, for me, is that despite the unmaliciously meant pain he inflicts on his loved ones (which I do understand the reasoning behind, the trauma that informs it etc)... he's still ultimately a figure of hope to me, a notably flawed, but no less significant, ideal within the narrative too. And I think you need that — we need the memory of Ned as readers, and so do the Starklings. So, I love him more for what he represents, rather than his parenting and lacklustre husbanding skills. I value the fundamental truths he emphasises through his words, and the legacy of those words, embodied within his children.

For example:

"Let me tell you something about wolves, child. When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives. Summer is the time for squabbles. In winter, we must protect one another, keep each other warm, share our strengths. So if you must hate, Arya, hate those who would truly do us harm. Septa Mordane is a good woman, and Sansa… Sansa is your sister. You may be as different as the sun and the moon, but the same blood flows through both your hearts. You need her, as she needs you… and I need both of you, gods help me." – AGOT, Arya II

Honestly, people can "squabble" about which Stark sibling is more important, more this, more that, till the cows come home. But that's what it is... "squabbles", and it misses the mark completely about why the Starks are the heart of the series. They are the Starks, plural. They may be different from one another, but they are "pack", and come winter, (TWOW, to be exact), once reunited they will "protect one another, keep each other warm, share [their] strengths", because those are the values Ned taught them.

These are the things to remember, despite all the hellishness. This is why Ned's death wasn't in vain, it wasn't an edgy twist, or the first whiff of grimdark... because his legacy didn't end with him, it lives on, it is felt throughout the series, right up until the most recent book:

"Be that as it may. My father sat where I sit now when Lord Eddard came to Sisterton. Our maester urged us to send Stark's head to Aerys, to prove our loyalty. It would have meant a rich reward. The Mad King was open-handed with them as pleased him. By then we knew that Jon Arryn had taken Gulltown, though. Robert was the first man to gain the wall, and slew Marq Grafton with his own hand. 'This Baratheon is fearless,' I said. 'He fights the way a king should fight.' Our maester chuckled at me and told us that Prince Rhaegar was certain to defeat this rebel. That was when Stark said, 'In this world only winter is certain. We may lose our heads, it's true… but what if we prevail?' My father sent him on his way with his head still on his shoulders. 'If you lose,' he told Lord Eddard, 'you were never here.'" – ADWD, Davos I

I love this line so much, and I love that it comes from Ned, that just as we are gearing up to head into the darkest parts of the series (because Winds is apparently going to be very dark)... we have this light, this hope, this "what if we prevail?" And it's connected to this repeated refrain about the certainty of winter — "in this world only winter is certain" vs. "winter is coming" — which is closely tied to Ned as a character. So, yes, "winter is coming", but don't be decieved into thinking that that spells disaster, that no warmth can be found, for there is always darkness before the dawn, just as there is always a winter before the spring... and in the winter the wolves shall "keep each other warm", they will "prevail."

In conclusion

Whatever his flaws and mistakes, and there are several, at the end of the day... I will love Ned for giving us hope, for reminding the readers, and characters, of what is really important — to take strength from your loved ones, to give them strength in return, and to not give into despair, no matter how harshly the snows might fall and white winds blow. Yes, it's not certain whether they'll live, but likewise, it's not certain whether they'll die either... and that's where you find the hope, the light against the grim dark.

So, for me, he's a character who makes my heart sink, but then he makes it swell again. That's the duality, and it's a choice which you put most stock in... I'll choose the hope he inspires every time ;)

[une-nuit-pour-se-souvenir]

random thoughts on jon connington’s chapters

The last time I read this was over four years and  I had a different take on Aegon, so I was curious to see on what changed with a second read.

----

The Lost Lord  ~ ADWD

Sansa and Aegon

Alayne II (Sansa II) ~ AFFC

When Robert dies, Harry the Heir becomes Lord Harrold, Defender of the Vale and Lord of the Eyrie. Jon Arryn's bannermen will never love me, nor our silly, shaking Robert, but they will love their Young Falcon . . . and when they come together for his wedding, and you come out with your long auburn hair, clad in a maiden's cloak of white and grey with a direwolf emblazoned on the back . . . why, every knight in the Vale will pledge his sword to win you back your birthright."

The Lost Lord ~ ADWD

"We have gone to great lengths to keep Prince Aegon hidden all these years," Lemore reminded him. "The time will come for him to wash his hair and declare himself, I know, but that time is not now. Not to a camp of sellswords." (...)

"The plan was to reveal Prince Aegon only when we reached Queen Daenerys," Lemore was saying." (...)

The prince wore sword and dagger, black boots polished to a high sheen, a black cloak lined with blood-red silk. With his hair washed and cut and freshly dyed a deep, dark blue, his eyes looked blue as well. At his throat he wore three huge square-cut rubies on a chain of black iron, a gift from Magister Illyrio. Red and black. Dragon colors. That was good. "You look a proper prince," he told the boy. (...)

Sansa and Aegon are supposed to reveal themselves by washing the dye out of their hair and wearing their house colours, in an event that involves a wedding with someone that will facilitate claiming their birthright.

However, Aegon said “fuck that bitch Danerys” and getting married, revealed himself somewhat (to the Golden Company higher-ups only) wearing his house colours and went back to Westeros to reclaim his birthright on his own, unware that his cousin from his mother’s side is coming to him to offer aid in the war.. Aegon washing his hair of the blue dye and doning his armour will only happen wieh he sets foot in Westeros.

Likewise, we can draw a parallel scenario for Sansa and considering the “Sansa is grey girl who flees from a marriage” it all fits, Like Aegon, Sansa syas “fuck that bitch blonde Bobby B Harry and getting married, like Aegon she wears a grey cloak, and like Aegon she’ll be meeting her cousin and eventually claim her birthright.

I somehow doubt Sansa will be getting an army that soon, but in the show she got the Wildlings (via Jon, who can be seen as “sellsword” type of warriors) and the Vale army. In the books, there’s the mountain clans both in the Vale (loyal to Tyrion, whom she’s married to) and the north mountain clans (those that protected Bran because he is Ned’s son and joined Stannis also because of Ned and his daughter).

Another thing of note is Aegon ended up cutting his hair but dyed blue once more, so this may be true for Sansa as well. She may cut it shorter (a parallel to her sister Arya as well) but keep dying it for awhile still. Such, she may reach the Wall and meet Jon as a brunette (a parallel to Jeyne Poole as well as  Alys Karstark).  ETA: Likewise Aegon only revealing himself by washing his hair and doning his armour when he invades Westeros (his birthright), Sansa may only wash her hair and done her armour when the northern campaign starts.

Regardless, This is a smart choice because...

Cersei IV ~ ADWD

The queen bristled. "I most certainly have not forgotten that little she-wolf." She refused to say the girl's name. "I ought to have shown her to the black cells as the daughter of a traitor, but instead I made her part of mine own household. She shared my hearth and hall, played with my own children. I fed her, dressed her, tried to make her a little less ignorant about the world, and how did she repay me for my kindness? She helped murder my son. When we find the Imp, we will find the Lady Sansa too. She is not dead . . . but before I am done with her, I promise you, she will be singing to the Stranger, begging for his kiss."

The Lost Lord ~ ADWD

"His because they're bought and paid for. Ten thousand armed strangers, plus hangers-on and camp followers. All it takes is one to bring us all to ruin. If Hugor's head was worth a lord's honors, how much will Cersei Lannister pay for the rightful heir to the Iron Throne? You do not know these men, my lord. It has been a dozen years since you last rode with the Golden Company, and your old friend is dead."

Cersei’s attention on Aegon is also a parallel to Cersei’s attention to Sansa, interestingly enough Tyrion is mentioned in both instances. Cersei’s attention on Sansa also come attached with the “singing the Stranger for a kiss”, which is interesting because if “Sansa is the Grey Girl” theory holds to, the guy she’s running to for protection is in fact.... dead or close to (the Stranger is their god and in the show... the episode was aplty named, the Book of the Stranger).

The bells tolled for all of us that day. For Aerys and his queen, for Elia of Dorne and her little daughter, for every true man and honest woman in the Seven Kingdoms. And for my silver prince. (...)

He had grown fond of Lemore, but that did not mean he required her approval. Her task had been to instruct the prince in the doctrines of the Faith, and she had done that. No amount of prayer would put him on the Iron Throne, however. That was Griff's task. He had failed Prince Rhaegar once. He would not fail his son. 

Let me live long enough to see the boy sit the Iron Throne, and Varys will pay for that slight and so much more. Then we'll see who's soon forgotten.

I grant that the obsession that Jon Connington has for Rhaegar Targaryen is milder and more honourable, compared to the obsession Littlefinger has for Catelyn Tully, but the fact is this is yet another parallel between Sansa and Aegon. They both have mentors with an unhealthy obsession with one of their parents and hate the other, which they project onto the kids. Last, but not least, both mentors are passing off as parents of the children while they remain disguised under a false indentiy.

However, as Sansa will have to run from Littlefinger’s toxic shadow, I suspect Aegon will do much the same. I have suspicions. Sansa escaped Littlefinger because of Jon, as he took the role of protection. No matter how people see the ship, the fact is Jon is a lot like Ned V2 (at least, that’s how Littlefinger will see it and he hated the man) but the truth is Jon is Ned’s nephew and Sansa’s cousin from his mother’s side.

Likewise, Aegon is about to meet Arianne Martell, who’s the niece of his mother Elia Martell, which makes them cousins from his mother’s side. Elia Martell, whom Jon Connington... hates, often speculated in fact that he was in love with Rhaegar Targaryen himself. The symmetry of all this, not only the mentor’s obsession with the children but also the love / hate hey have for their parents.

Connington’s wish to see Aegon crowned and the giant chip he has on his shoulder for not being recognised. For the former, I have not found any reference to Littlefinger wanting to sit the Iron Throne in the books, but this was basically his goal in the show. To be king with Sansa by his side. For the latter, well that’s the drive of his character, he’s a social climber seeking recognition.

Sansa VII ~ ASOS

I will tell my aunt that I don't want to marry Robert. Not even the High Septon himself could declare a woman married if she refused to say the vows. She wasn't a beggar, no matter what her aunt said. She was thirteen, a woman flowered and wed, the heir to Winterfell.

The Lost Lord ~ ADWD

"Why should I go running to my aunt  [implied marriage] as if I were a beggar? My claim is better than her own. Let her come to me … in Westeros." 

Eh. Same energy. They are not beggars and they know their birthright, they will not be forced to marry someone they don’t want to to facilitate it.

----

TL;DR: I think these concurrence between Sansa and Aegon suggest that Aegon is real, but also glimpse into their characters beyond their toxic mentors and their ascencion to power. It will be interesting to watch their common points in future events, even if by the fact that they’re different genders and that makes PLENTY of difference in ASOIAF.

Jon and Aegon

Jon II ~ ASOS

A few tents were still standing on the far side of the camp, and it was there they found Mance Rayder. Beneath his slashed cloak of black wool and red silk he wore black ringmail and shaggy fur breeches, and on his head was a great bronze-and-iron helm with raven wings at either temple. Jarl was with him, and Harma the Dogshead; Styr as well, and Varamyr Sixskins with his wolves and his shadowcat.

The Lost Lord ~ ADWD

The prince wore sword and dagger, black boots polished to a high sheen, a black cloak lined with blood-red silk. With his hair washed and cut and freshly dyed a deep, dark blue, his eyes looked blue as well. At his throat he wore three huge square-cut rubies on a chain of black iron, a gift from Magister Illyrio. Red and black. Dragon colors. That was good. "You look a proper prince," he told the boy. (...)

I personally ignored Aegon because I started with the show and didn’t know he was a (living) character until I read the books. I wasn’t even all that convinced he’d be particularly important. So I always looked at Jon’s interactions with Mance (associated with black + red) as "preparation” for Jon’s internactions with Daniella.

Hoewver, that changed when show!Cersei took over some of book!Aegon role: sitting on the Iron Throne, the Golden Company, and loved over Daniella in the last to final episode. It seems to me now that Mance can also (at the very least if not all) be seen as “preparation” for Jon’s interactions Aegon. As said, Mance  dresss in a black and red cloak which associates him with Targs, the cloak being “copied” by Aegon. Mance united the notorious “give no fucks about authority) wildlings under one idea (run from the Others), while Aegon united a sellsword compay (sellswords are untrustworthty).

Moreover, it’s my conviction that Jon and Aegon are probably going to war against each other for a time (this is illustrated by what I believe are their respective dragons and a natural consequence if Aegon sits in King’s Landing while the Starks declare Northern Indepdencen), until they sommehow make peace (in case of Mance and Jon it was because of the Others, but for Jon and Aegon it could be their fire counterart, Danerys).

TL;DR: I think these vague connections between Mance and Aegon are rather interesting and may be “preparation” for Jon and Aegon’s intereactons will involve war AND peace. Interestingly, Connington’s next chapter feaures battle.

[ladystoneboobs]

You lied to me! My uncle is my father! My father is my uncle!

as a companion to my previous post, here are the thoughts i've had cooking about ned/jaime. most discussion about them focuses on honor and judgement, which i'm bored with by now, so this is about their familial relationships and emotional life. i haven't really seen that talked about.

let’s start with their sisters. we know ned/lyanna had a good relationship and he was devoted to her after her death, but before that he failed her when she tried to express her concerns about robert. in trying not to take sides and offering feeble reassurances (saying robert loved her isn’t even technically a promise he wouldn’t cheat or otherwise not be a good husband. imho more a hope that lyanna could learn to love robert despite his flaws like ned did.), he effectively sided with robert by ignoring lyanna’s feelings. a mistake he made up for as she lay dying, listening to her and promising his support against robert, a promise he kept to the letter with a secret he took to his grave. jaime has more the opposite relationship with his sister, an unhealthy relationship where he was too devoted to her, willing to murder anyone for the sake of their love. the turn in their relationship comes when jaime starts seeing cersei’s serious flaws more clearly, and then refuses to keep offering her his unhealthy kind of support, even when she needs him most.

because of these relationships, both men are uncle and father to the sister’s offspring. jaime is both by blood while ned was an uncle by blood but even moreso a father in spirit, adopting his nephew under the pretense of fathering a bastard and raising jon as one of his own kids. ned not only loved his nephew as his own son, he kept him closer and treated jon better than most lords would treat their actual illegitimate children. by contrast, jaime has to lie about not fathering cersei’s children instead of the other way around, not even allowed to hold them after witnessing their births. it’s not even clear how close he was to them as just a regular uncle. it seems he only started to re-think spending time with tommen and myrcella after his relationship with cersei started to sour. ned’s fatherly relationship with jon was based on his love for lyanna, but jaime’s chance at fatherhood was ruined by the illicit nature of his relationship with cersei.

next, while ned may not have been in the habit of “going away inside” the same way jaime did, both have a habit of repressing traumatic memories. we know he never liked to talk about lyanna after she died, and that the echoes of her death were very painful for him, never recalling the full context (obviously for r+l=j mystery but also in-character because of emotions). he blacked out the moments immediately after she died and only knew that howland reed must have found him at some point. the oft-cited line about rhaegar targaryen not visiting brothels is preceded by one about it being the first time in years he’d thought of rhaegar, (his possible secret brother-in-law), the man who impregnated ned’s sister and left him with the secret burden of raising lyanna/rhaegar’s child as his bastard son instead of his nephew. i think ned made an effort to only think of jon as his and to ignore the more painful true circumstances of jon’s conception. for jaime, i think he made an effort, conscious or not, to not think much about his mother, with the coldly indifferent way he thought of her sudden happening soon after she caught him and cersei in some inappropriate behavior and tried to keep him away from cersei. even when he dreamed of joanna the word mother was never used, and after he awoke, he gave no conscious thought of the vision he had of her. and while jaime may not have the same reasons ned did to keep his rebellion secrets (such that people always question why he never revealed the truth to anyone before brienne), i’d say it’s a similar problem where the trauma of all his time with aerys ate away at him but he didn’t know how to deal with it without re-living it. he was drunk when he told cat about aerys’ stark murdering, and feverish when he told brienne about the kingslaying. i doubt if he could tell either experience in such depth while sober and clearheaded. jaime is shown to be haunted by his early kingsguard time almost from the start of pov, but how to relieve that wound without experiencing pain along the way? the same is true for ned, who had promised to keep lyanna’s secret, but it was a promise that fit his natural inclination, not wanting to think about lyanna on her deathbed, and not speaking much about her, even unrelated to her death in childbirth. i believe ned too wanted to be able to unload his burden and would have felt some relief at doing so, but he lost his chance to tell jon, the person who most deserved to know. he couldn’t even do so in written form after varys set his terms for sending a message.

what i really think jaime/ned have in common is an impressive ability to compartmentalize when it comes to the people they love. jaime’s is more obvious with cersei and tyrion. he’d been caught in the middle there ever since he stopped cersei from abusing tyrion in the cradle, yet his sympathy for tyrion didn’t change the way he felt or thought about cersei, just as tywin and cersei’s hatred for tyrion did not stop jaime from loving him. it was only when cersei accused tyrion of joffrey’s murder and asked jaime to outright murder tyrion that he had to make a choice between them, as if realizing for the very first time that his family loyalties were in conflict just as much as all the vows he swore, a division which was ultimately impossible to sustain. 

for ned, this compartmentalization is most at play in his love for robert and lyanna. the line in his first pov chapter about robert loving lyanna even more than ned himself seems fine on first read, but is actually wild to me when knowing the full picture, not just r+l=j, but also what an inadequate friend robert proved to be to the starks and how little he actually knew or understand lyanna. i’m sure she would very much disagree about the notion that the would-be husband she ran away from, the man who made her afraid for the life of her son, somehow loved her more than the brother who knew her her whole life and then kept her son safe for years after her death. after everything at the end of the rebellion, robert’s “dragonspawn” comments and ned’s promise to lyanna, ned still wanted to stay loyal to both of them. and loving each one separately meant still believing in robert’s love for lyanna while keeping lyanna’s son safe from robert. even though ned never budged from keeping his word to lyanna, i think the (completely separate) baratheon-loving part of him still wanted to believe lyanna could be wrong about robert, hence his disappointment and downright disbelief whenever robert spoke of killing dany, as if the murder of targ kids was an entirely new subject between them. a similar dynamic is at play in his love for jon and cat. when catelyn said jon couldn’t stay with her at winterfell without ned and that it wouldn’t be good for him if did, ned acted surprised, shocked even, to hear her say so. yet in the same chapter earlier, cat thought about how there was nothing she could say over the years to get ned to send jon away, which suggests the subject had already come up several times between them without any change. she may not have asked about jon’s mother again, but i think she wanted ned to know exactly how she felt about living with jon and her feelings about that matter should have been as clear as robert’s about the targs. and those are the only arguments we know they had about jon, no sign ned ever spoke to her about the way she treated jon. scaring her (!!!) into not asking about jon’s origins was just about keeping the secret and did nothing to make jon’s life easier. all he did was pray for robb/jon to grow up as brothers and for cat to forgive him and give over it, hoping that she’d magically change her mind like he did with robert, and ignoring his family dysfunction (or trying to) the way jaime did. ned’s objective of keeping jon alive and under his care at winterfell was more important than jon’s actual happiness and comfort in their home. which leads me to my next point...

if anything, ned kept his promise to lyanna too well, not telling jon anything, even details that would not reveal r+l=j. even if he still felt jon was too young to handle the full truth, the least he could have done was tell jon his mother loved him. and i see absolutely no reason the poor boy couldn’t even have been told whether his mother was alive or dead. even with cat, he could said something without going into jon’s exact parentage, like that jon’s mother died in childbirth and that’s why he felt such obligation, that he wasn’t in love with jon’s mother and never wished he was free to marry her instead, that he meant to raise jon with robb but this would never affect the succession, etcetera. remember, the conversation about jon’s mother must have happened fairly early in their marriage, before cat’s bad relationship with jon was established, when she was still an innocent party herself. this does not excuse her reaction and later treatment of jon, she’s still responsible for her own choices, but the point is none of that applied back then and ned could have handled things better from the start if he really wanted this situation to work, especially for jon’s sake. (i tend to think ned would have handled everything better if he actually had fathered a bastard.) the fact that there isn’t a rational justification for all of this is part of my belief that his silence was as much about his trauma and how painful it was to even think about it as it was about his promise. 

jaime has the opposite problem with his paternity secret, never accepting the full danger of that truth for his children. he begrudgingly kept his silence and his distance on cersei’s instruction, willing to murder to keep the secret, yet he was relieved once it was out with stannis’s letter. he thought robert’s death was enough to solve their problem, and that the lannisters were then free to practice sibling marriage as the targs did, for both himself with cersei and joffrey/myrcella too. when he wanted to tell his surviving kids the truth he thought it was as simple as asking tommen whether he’d rather have a crown or a father, as if royal titles were all that was at stakes rather than their very lives, and as if a 8yo child could be trusted to make that choice and understand what it meant (consequences jaime couldn’t understand as a grown man). ned was so much better at living a lie that no one questioned it in-story and jaime thought sexual fidelity was the one area where he could claim more honor than ned. really, the difference was that ned knew how to lie when he really needed to and the fact that he lied so seldom helped make people ready to believe him. neither man really wanted to lie and would have much preferred an honest life.

lastly, while i don’t wanna focus on honor/morality, this final part also concerns ned’s family life. most would say the say the starkest (ha, pun intended) difference between jaime and ned is willingness to murder children, which jaime already demonstrated twice with bran and arya. but then there’s theon. there’s much arguing that ned would never actually kill theon, just as there’s argument about the sincerity of jaime’s baby-in-a-trebuchet threat, but in both cases it’s a bit beside the point imo. unless ned explicitly reassured theon that the threat was empty and that he’d never hurt him, theon had good reason to fear and believe there really was inherent danger in his fostering. (and edmure had reason to fear one of his family’s greatest enemies, working with the freys.) we know that reassurance didn’t happen as it should have been mentioned. why wouldn’t ned at least bluff about killing a kid to keep the peace when that was the entire purpose of theon’s (forced) wardship? an arrangement which only failed because of balon’s lack of love for his son, not because ned cared for theon too much. aside from ned generally upholding the traditions of his society, wanting to keep balon in check, and also valuing peace/safety over happiness/comfort with jon, i’d say the final proof comes in jon’s pov. jon told the northern clansmen that they could trust his willingness to kill wildling child-hostages for any misbehavior of their parents because he was ned’s son, which shows just how credibly the implied threat to theon was perceived among ned’s peers. jon didn’t have a private monologue aside about knowing ned would never actually kill an innocent child. i’d say that discounting theon’s conflicted feelings about ned as unfair and/or ungrateful is like saying edmure should have known better than to believe jaime’s threats, in that either case would be victim-blaming and a serious misreading of the situations of those hostages. 

[tomakeitbeautifultolive]

Defending Jon Snow’s Honor

Re: "Jon Snow is Trash": Because if you accept the season eight depiction of Jon Snow as credible, then you might as well admit that Daenerys was mad all along.

Disclaimer: This is not a defense of Jon Snow's actions in season eight, but a refutation of his portrayal.

To begin, we must confront the elephant in the room: In season eight, the character of Daenerys Targaryen was butchered both literally and figuratively. It was such a brutal and heinous maiming of her character that by the end of the series, it was impossible to suspend disbelief and accept the inane and illogical choices of the writers.

But when you then turn around and insist that Jon Snow has always been "trash"—it's no different than the people who insist Daenerys has always been mad. The hit job on Jon Snow was, admittedly, a bit more subtle. But it was a hit job nonetheless. Do not let two talentless writers convince you that Jon Snow, at any point in season eight, acted within the bounds of his established character or even within in-universe show logic.

Because he didn't.

And no, I won't put any of this under a cut. Let the sheer length of this post serve as proof, itself, of just how dirty David Benioff and D.B. Weiss did Jon Snow.

The Real Jon Snow

While the writing on Game of Thrones suffered the further the story strayed from the books and from its original creator, George R.R. Martin, season seven—for all its faults and imperfections—still seemed to follow the natural progression of the story. Everyone still felt more or less in-character, particularly Jon Snow and Daenerys Targaryen.

So, that's where we'll start. To me, season seven Jon Snow is the rough culmination of exactly where I believe his story arc will lead—and it's a great season to help showcase his qualities.

Regardless of any personal preference for characters, in season seven, Jon Snow and Daenerys Targaryen are equals. She is a queen and he is a king.

When they meet, she appeals to her power and her claim by inheritance in order to convince Jon to bend the knee. Of course, it was never going to be that easy. Jon's a stubborn man and he has no reason to put his blind faith into well, anyone.

It is only upon revealing her true nature—her selflessness and willingness to use her power to help others—that Daenerys earns not only his respect, but his heart.

To say that "Jon Snow was always trash" is an insult to Daenerys and her judgment.

Dany's love for Khal Drogo was born of adaptation, to make the best of a situation she never asked for. Unlike Jorah Mormont, Jon's devotion to Daenerys had nothing to do with her looks. Unlike Daario Naharis, Jon's devotion to Daenerys had nothing to do with her power or status... and everything to do with who she is fundamentally. Jon Snow pledged to fight for Daenerys based on the content of her character rather than her beauty.

Further, Daario Naharis really stood face to face with Daenerys Targaryen, the Mhysa, and said "fuck the people". Meanwhile, it is Jon Snow's mysterious scars that prove he and Daenerys harbor similar ideologies—demonstrating that Jon is willing to stop at nothing for his people—even if it requires giving his own life.

Many have called Jon Snow "stupid" for exactly this, completely missing the point that there are qualities that deserve to be held in higher esteem than self-preservation or cleverness.

Compassion.

Self-sacrifice.

Humility.

Dignity.

Honesty.

When Jon Snow declares his loyalty to Daenerys in the Dragonpit in front of everyone—this is yet another moment people like to point to as "stupid", yet...

"I'm not going to swear an oath I can't uphold. When enough people make false promises, words stop meaning anything. Then there are no more answers, only better and better lies."

Jon Snow's integrity is more important to him than lying just to save his own hide. After all, he tried that once before, and the only thing it resulted in was heartache and regret. Jon Snow more or less asserts that a life wherein he must pretend to be something he isn't—isn't a life worth living.

This is as profound a revelation as it is bold.

Whether or not you agree with his convictions... Jon Snow's moral foundation is as unyielding as Valyrian steel. It is no wonder that this was the man who ultimately won the heart of Daenerys Targaryen. A man whose favor cannot be bought or exploited.

One fundamental change in Jon Snow's character from page to screen, however, is his ambition. This emphasis on his reluctance in ruling becomes an unfortunate cornerstone of season eight. But if Jon Snow's book counterpart—the one who dreamt of becoming Lord of Winterfell, of conquering and leading men into glory—lacks this hesitation, and instead, takes leadership so seriously that he only celebrates becoming Lord Commander with one gulp of alcohol... then what impact could his ambition have on the story?

Upon learning that Jon is Rhaegar's son, it's easy to jump to the conclusion that he'll suddenly start vying for the Iron Throne. But if Jon Snow pledges himself to Queen Daenerys in the books, then we have every reason to believe his word is as good as gold. Jon is not a man who takes his oaths lightly. Nor is he a man who is easily manipulated.

Jon Snow deciding to swear fealty to anyone is momentous.

Take, for instance, Stannis Baratheon. Jon's 'father', Ned, pretty much died in support of Stannis' claim to the throne, so he approaches the boy and appeals to Jon's deepest desire—the first thing he can remember wanting—to become a Stark.

All he had to do was say the word, and he would be Jon Stark, and nevermore a Snow. All he had to do was pledge this king his fealty, and Winterfell was his. All he had to do ... was forswear his vows again. And this time it would not be a ruse. To claim his father's castle, he must turn against his father's gods.

This is not an easy decision for Jon Snow. He spends a great deal of time considering the offer from just about every angle one can. Admittedly, it's hard to showcase deep internal reflection on a television show, so we didn't really get to see that process for Jon on screen. But it's always been apparent that two men of privilege—David Benioff and D.B. Weiss—struggle in writing from the perspective of a bastard. Fundamentally, they cannot fully inhabit Jon as a result, because they've never experienced a lifetime of unprovoked contempt, resulting in an unfortunate lack of depth in Jon's translation from page to screen.

Even so, we do get some insight into the depth of Jon's character in season seven when Theon Greyjoy says to Jon:

"You've always known what was right. Even when we were all young and stupid, you always knew. Every step you take, it's always the right step."

In turn, Jon replies:

"It's not. It may seem that way from the outside, but I promise you, it's not true. I've done plenty of things that I regret."

So, by the time that Jon must decide whether or not to accept Stannis Baratheon's offer, he does so with the consideration of future regret. It is in a reflective moment that Jon decides that his greatest desires are not worth the moral expense.

And so, Jon refuses to betray his father's gods, and remains a Snow.

The Kinslaying Problem

Speaking of gods... Way back in his wildling heyday, Ygritte recounts the tale of Bael the Bard to Jon Snow, in which she reveals a curious detail:

"The gods hate kinslayers, even when they kill unknowing."

While you could make the case that this foreshadows Jon as a kinslayer regarding Daenerys... considering it was their kinship that drove a wedge right through their relationship in show canon, it's safe to say season eight Jon knew full well he was kin to Daenerys when he killed her. So what else could this quote mean?

The "kinslayer who kills unknowing" probably won't refer to Daenerys at all—but the mysterious figure known in the books as the Night's King, of whom all records have been destroyed, his very name forbidden.

But... Old Nan insists we do know his name. At least one of them:

"He was a Stark, the brother of the man who brought him down."

Keep in mind that it's Bran she tells, not Jon. And her words even echo the kinslaying element between these mysterious and legendary figures in and around the North.

Interestingly, one of the most prominent kinslayers in the story is the one who, in season eight, ultimately convinces Jon Snow to murder his queen. And somehow, it takes virtually no effort on Tyrion's part to persuade Jon Snow to commit not only regicide, but kinslaying (whatever happened to "The man that passes the sentence should swing the sword"?)

This may mean nothing in the show, but in the books it's reiterated over and over again we're told how accursed such an act is. And we have a pretty good example that it might be true. Rickard Karstark warned Robb Stark prior to his execution by the Young Wolf's hand:

"We are kin, Stark and Karstark. Old gods or new, it makes no matter. No man is so accursed as the kinslayer."

And we all know the fate that befell Robb Stark.

The Incest Problem

Speaking of kin... let's talk incest! While there's no question that on earth, discovering you've been copulating with your aunt might be a cause for surprise... In Westeros? It's not even considered incest. No, not even in the North, where we're given two examples of uncle-to-niece pairings:

"In Westeros incest is only applied if father lays with daughter, mother lays with son, or brother to sister, and the children of such unions are considered abominations. The views regarding marriages between an uncle and a niece (or an aunt to a nephew) might differ between the Faith and the old gods. In the north, Serena Stark had been wed to her half-uncle, Edric, while her sister Sansa Stark had been wed to her half-uncle Jonnel Stark."

In the original draft of the story, Jon was supposed to have a romantic relationship with Arya Stark—his cousin by blood, but who, for all he knows, is his sister. Seeds of this are still scattered in early chapters of ASOIAF, as illustrated by the sheer tenderness of their relationship in A Game of Thrones.

For years, Arya Stark was the only woman who treated Jon with respect. It's no wonder that his feelings for her have always bordered on romantic (and let me make a clear distinction here—I said romantic, not sexual). Considering that it was George's original plan, it's pretty safe to guess that being a willing participant in an incestuous relationship is not necessarily out of character for Jon Snow, as was predetermined by the man who created him.

Jon Snow is a polarizing character for people who love Targaryens and hate Starks—and vice versa. Whether or not you like it, Jon Snow is a Targaryen. And thus, the Doctrine of Exceptionalism applies to him, which states:

"The Targaryens wed brother to sister as the Valyrians had always done, and as the gods had made them this way, it was not for men to judge." 

While the show canon did next to nothing with Jon Snow's true Targaryen lineage—never forget that the entire reason David Benioff and D.B. Weiss were given the rights to Game of Thrones was that they could correctly answer the question "Who is Jon Snow's mother?"

An incestuous scandal was the best that the lackluster show writers could come up with. And to then accept that the only reason George R.R. Martin penned this central plot twist in his medieval fantasy story exclusively to create some modern-era incest drama is, frankly, insulting.

David Benioff and D.B. Weiss are creatively barren. As barren as... um, Daenerys apparently?

To further exploit the show's lack of logical reasoning—it turns out that, yes, according to show canon, Daenerys was barren the whole time. While Jon doubted the validity of Mirri Maz Duur's claims... he was wrong. And Daenerys was straightforward with him that their union would produce no offspring. And apparently, despite all the wasted dialogue used to foreshadow, she was right.

This means that even within the boundaries of the show's broken logic, the anti-incest angle never held water.

So... if season eight Jon Snow's rejection of Daenerys is what ultimately causes her to "snap", yet it's unlikely that book Jon Snow will feel the same strong aversion about their relation... will she "snap" at all?

The Execution Problem

When it comes to the 'old way', Ned Stark has taught his sons well, Jon Snow among them:

"We hold to the belief that the man who passes the sentence should swing the sword. If you would take a man's life, you owe it to him to look into his eyes and hear his final words. And if you cannot bear to do that, then perhaps the man does not deserve to die."

When Jon encounters Ygritte, he can't bring himself to kill her despite the command to. She reminds him of his sister, Arya—the girl he loves the most in all the world. And so, he asks Ygritte to yield. Jon Snow, simply reminded of a girl he loves, cannot bring himself to kill Ygritte.

Later, we directly witness Jon applying Ned's logic to his execution of Janos Slynt. After advising Janos on how best to achieve a quick death, he says:

"If you have any last words, now is the time to speak them."

"Please, my lord. Mercy. I'll … I'll go, I will, I …"

No, thought Jon. You closed that door. Longclaw descended.

Like his father before him, Jon advised Janos to speak his last words. And upon hearing them, deemed him fit to die.

This is Jon Snow's execution style.

We see it repeated even in season six when he executes his murderers:

"If you have any last words, now is the time."

Patiently, he waits for each of his four murderers to speak before letting them hang.

This is Jon Snow's execution style.

Alternatively, we see another style of execution when it comes to Jon Snow's own murder, as carried out by Alliser Thorne. Let's just go ahead and refer to this style as dishonorable and cowardly (two qualities that we've now established that Jon Snow does not possess).

Jon Snow was led, unarmed, into a false sense of security—where he was then cornered and stabbed in the heart by his enemies, left lying in a pool of his own blood.

The change in Jon Snow's execution style to suddenly emulate the way in which he was murdered is a cold-blooded betrayal of Jon's character.

But back to Janos.

On the surface, Jon Snow made a snap decision to execute Janos Slynt for disobeying a command—though if we're being honest, it was more-so because Janos was an entitled and sniveling Lannister loyalist that couldn't be trusted, or, a clever political move to ensure Jon’s future safety as Lord Commander.

Jon then severed the man's head as he cried and begged for his life.

You expect us to believe that this man...

...would be bothered by the execution of attempted murderer and traitor, Varys? A man who openly suggested they collude and commit treason?

While the above gif looks a little more like the Jon Snow we know, it’s not. Especially considering the writers tried their hardest to make us believe Jon Snow is incapable of dishonesty and lying, even by omission, he neglects to tell Daenerys of Varys’ treasonous ways. He cannot lie to his siblings or to Daenerys about his Targaryen identity, yet he can omit a very troubling piece of information regarding one of the allies of the woman he loves and is pledged to. What?

Further, compare the execution below with the above gifs of Jon Snow's two executions. He even shows more satisfaction in the deaths of the lives he’s taken than Daenerys did. Varys surviving means Dany’s life will forever be at risk. Not only is Varys an oathbreaker, but he attempted regicide by poison. Having Jon Snow judge Daenerys for this action is a blatant double standard that makes zero logical sense.

And speaking of attempted murderers... Let's discuss Randyll Tarly.

Randyll Tarly is no stranger to Jon Snow. Sam told him all about his father way back in episode four of season one:

"You're almost a man now, but you're not worthy of my land and title. Tomorrow, you're going to take the black, forsake all claim to your inheritance and start north. If you do not, then we'll have a hunt, and somewhere in these woods your horse will stumble, and you'll be thrown from your saddle to die. Or so I'll tell your mother. Nothing would please me more."

So, you're going to tell me that Jon Snow is suddenly perturbed by the execution of a man who both threatened to murder his own son and who betrayed his liege lord?

To fight alongside the Lannisters, no less?

According to the books, this is what Jon Snow thinks of the Lannisters:

"It's death and destruction I want to bring down upon House Lannister, not scorn."

And in case you missed it, this is how Jon Snow punishes those who betray their liege lords:

Maybe you’re itching to argue that it’s Dany’s execution style that is the problem. That perhaps, 'death by fire is heinous and cruel! Beheading and hanging and punching someone to death are all "merciful" deaths!' Because, stupefyingly, that's a popular argument for those that (also stupefyingly) defend Randyll Tarly.

That argument might work if not for the fact that Jon instructed his men to launch flaming arrows at the Battle of Castle Black, thus using fire as a means to kill.

The Arya Stark Problem

We've already discussed Arya Stark a little bit in terms of her deep bond with Jon Snow... but in order to truly show how out-of-character their reunion was, we need to backtrack a little bit.

Upon gifting her Needle, Jon and Arya have this exchange in the books:

"And whatever you do..."

Arya knew what was coming next. They said it together.

"...don't ... tell ... Sansa!"

Not only do the pair have an understanding which excludes their sister or trusting her with sensitive information... when Arya is caught with Needle later on, this happens:

Arya chewed her lip and said nothing. She would not betray Jon, not even to their father.

And when Arya attempts to shed her identity at the House of Black and White, she can't bring herself to part with Needle, because:

Needle was Jon Snow's smile. The Many-Faced God can have the rest, she thought, but he can't have this.

Arya Stark refuses to part with the physical representation of Jon Snow's smile.

For the most anticipated reunion in the entire show, it fell flat. Don't get me wrong, it was exhilarating to see Jon Snow and Arya Stark embracing after being apart for a decade—and Kit Harington and Maisie Williams did their absolute best with the poor dialogue they were given.

But this was not the reunion of two characters who survived some of their toughest challenges by merely recalling the memory of the other. Jon and Arya shared a bond that nothing could tarnish—not even time. A bond that no one—not even their fellow family members—could penetrate.

The nerve of the writers making Arya Stark, one of the cleverest characters in the books despite her age, say that Sansa Stark is the smartest person she's ever met? No. For one, Arya Stark did not need to live as a bastard in order to empathize with them—which means that even as a little girl, she possessed wisdom that is years ahead of her elder sister's.

Much like Jon Snow, Arya Stark is not a character who is easily persuaded by the opinions of others. Which is why she and Jon are close at all—she never once believes the stigma attached to his bastardy, because it's so blatantly obvious to her that his character simply doesn't fit the rhetoric.

I'd be willing to bet that Jon's incredibly loyal sister would trust his judgment in pledging himself to Daenerys. And I won't for a minute believe that the girl who said to Gendry...

"I can be your family."

...would suddenly regress into intolerance, particularly not at someone else's behest.

I won't believe for a minute that the girl who said...

"The woman is important too!"

...would turn around and suggest that the woman who provided her armies, dragons, and resources to save the North should then be discarded afterward.

I won't believe for a minute that the girl who makes allies and friends everywhere she goes would turn around and argue that allies aren't important.

I won't believe for a minute that the girl who named her direwolf after the warrior queen Nymeria, the girl who said...

"He killed the slave?" That did not sound right. "He should have killed the masters!"

...wouldn't at least give the person she loves the most in all the world, Jon Snow, a few minutes to explain why he supports and believes in Daenerys.

Lastly, there is absolutely no reason to believe that Arya Stark would ever betray Jon Snow. It is an insult to one of the purest and tenderest relationships in the entire series to suggest otherwise.

The Winterfell Problem

Even on Jon Snow's AWOIAF Wiki page, he is described as "quick to sense a slight", as well as observant, "a trait he developed on account of being a bastard".

Yet, during the feast following the Night King's death... Jon Snow is suddenly portrayed as oblivious all in service to the plot to alienate Daenerys. Jon Snow's sudden disinterest in the woman he spent season seven so intently studying was both frustrating and compromising to his character traits.

After all, the most impressive leader Jon Snow has ever witnessed followed him into his homeland to save his men for nothing to gain (and in fact, to sacrifice her own men and resources), not just for the man she loves—but because it's the right thing to do.

The writers really expect us to believe that this man, who turned Janos Slynt's insubordination into an example of what happens to men who openly disrespect him and his orders...

...is going to suddenly sit idly by while his own people make a fool of him by disrespecting his chosen queen, and by extension, him.

Don't let the writers believe for an instant that he would stand for it.

Taking a step further back, what in seven hells was going on during that battle?

The betrayal to Jon Snow's character is the most glaring during episode three of season eight, in which the writers really decided to sideline the most talented and quick-thinking swordsman in their cast (next to Furdik—who, by the way, was also sidelined).

Jon Snow conveniently forgets virtually everything he learned from defending the Wall in season four and reclaiming Winterfell in season six. The King in the North who travels all the way to Dragonstone for not only dragonglass, but in hopes of gaining the help of the queen and her armies is really going to let one of those armies gallop head-first into the army of the undead with metal weapons? Jon Snow is the first character in the show to learn that regular weapons don't work against wights!

And while it may not be Jon Snow's fault that the trebuchets managed to make it to the front line of all places, he certainly would've pointed out the flaw in that decision. As well as the placement of the trenches—which physically severed the troops from the safety of the castle upon retreat. Retreat, if necessary, would be a priority for Jon Snow especially, as he, above everyone else, knows that every fallen man means one more undead soldier they must deal with.

And speaking of the trenches...

To add insult to injury, the writers really decided to add a shot of Jon Snow sitting idly next to the trenches on top of Rhaegal, a dragon that he was just using to light the dead on fire, as Melisandre struggled to light them with magic:

What? You mean this Jon Snow?

The Jon Snow that once used his quick-thinking to discover that fire kills wights... doesn't think to use dragonfire to light a trench on fire? Come on.

And since when has Jon Snow ever balked during battle? Of all the characters, he's one of the few who actually understands what the Night King is, how big his army is, what the odds are, and what it's like to be in the midst of not only battles—but ones that are going really poorly.

Yet at Winterfell—the place he fought so hard to reclaim and that he reluctantly went south to rally support for in order to protect it—he suddenly has no idea what to do? He's historically one of the most quick-witted and innovative fighters in the entire show, if not the most.

And speaking of battles...

"We find our true friends on the battlefield"

Whether or not you agree with the writers' choice to have Sam attempt to persuade Jon to commit treason against his queen... I just cannot accept that Jon Snow willingly turns away from his oldest friend in a moment like this:

Even in the most hopeless of situations, Jon Snow won't hesitate to save someone he loves. Like when he tried, against all odds, to save Rickon.

Even with complete strangers, Jon Snow has shown his gallantry.

As well as his aptitude for forgiveness.

Whether or not Samwell Tarly offended Jon, he would never leave him to die. Their principals may no longer converge the way they once did... but never forget that when, in the books, Chett suggests Thorne should kill Sam for being weak, Jon speaks up on Sam's behalf:

"Lords are gold and knights steel, but two links can't make a chain. You also need silver and iron and lead, tin and copper and bronze and all the rest, and those are farmers and smiths and merchants and the like. A chain needs all sorts of metals, and a land needs all sorts of people. You can't hammer tin into iron, no matter how hard you beat it, but that doesn't mean tin is useless."

The Night King Problem

Speaking of the battle for Winterfell... By denying Jon Snow the climax to his story arc—squaring off with the Night King—and instead, granting that honor to Arya Stark (who has no relation to anything happening north of the Wall in either book or show...) it disrupts the natural conclusions for both characters.

Jon Snow and the Night King had unfinished business—at least, that's what all those long and intense stare-downs seemed to indicate. Even in the books, the only POV chapters that mention the Night's King are Jon, Bran, and Sam.

Kit Harington was very gracious when trying to explain why he would've liked to get the killing blow:

"I was a bit pissed off, only because I wanted to kill the Night King! I think I felt like everyone else did, in that it had been set up for a long time, and then I didn't get to do it."

But even in all his graciousness, Kit points out that it's been set up for a long time. And you know what George R.R. Martin has to say about changing your plan mid-stream:

"If you planned your book that the butler did it and then you read on the internet that someone has figured out that the butler did it and then you suddenly change in mid-stream and it was the chambermaid who did it? Then you screw up the whole book because you've got this foreshadowing early on and you've got these little clues you've planted and now they're dead ends... and you have to introduce other clues and you're retconning. It's a mess."

Yet... The fact that Jon Snow vs. the Night King made sense was exactly why the writers chose not to do it!

"We hope to kind of avoid the expected and Jon Snow has always been the hero, the one who's been the savior. But it just didn't seem right to us for this moment." 

Sure, Arya Stark killing the Night King "subverted expectations" (I'm so sick of typing those two words together at this point, but it's impossible not to do when trying to discuss season eight)... but at what cost? The cost of any emotional impact.

Just like virtually everything else in the last season. 

(As an aside, if the writers really felt Arya Stark was the right person to land the killing blow, they should've had Jon lose the swordfight and before the Night King is able to finish him, his ride-or-die sister comes flying out of the darkness to save his life. The audience gets what they were promised and Arya still gets to be the hero in a way that not only makes sense, but fits her character…)

Of course, the showdown with the Night King was not the first major plot point that was teased over the course of the series to be ultimately robbed from Jon Snow.

Nor would it be the last...

The Prophecy Problem

To claim that Jon piercing Dany's heart with a quick sneak attack has any resemblance to the legend of Azor Ahai is a gross oversimplification. Let's take a look at what the legend actually says:

"He summoned his wife. 'Nissa Nissa,' he said to her, for that was her name, 'bare your breast, and know that I love you best of all that is in this world.' She did this thing, why I cannot say, and Azor Ahai thrust the smoking sword through her living heart. It is said that her cry of anguish and ecstasy left a crack across the face of the moon, but her blood and her soul and her strength and her courage all went into the steel."

Yes. Daenerys was stabbed in the heart. That is the only similarity her season eight murder bears to the above legend.

Where was the declaration of love? Where was the permission asked? Where was the consent given? There was no cry of anguish and ecstasy—there was a gasp and a gurgle. Dany's life was not given in exchange for anything, it was simply taken. There was no transference of courage or strength—just a quick and (troublingly) unimpactful "shock" death.

Of course, it's important to point out that Azor Ahai is never even mentioned in the show. And while The Prince that was Promised was mentioned (as late as season seven)... So far as show canon goes, this prophecy meant absolutely nothing in the end.

That makes two of us, Kit.

Jon Snow (and Kit Harington) Also Deserved Better

Aside from George R.R. Martin, the man who knows Jon Snow best, Kit Harington, was overcome with heartache, disbelief...

...and frustration upon reading the treacherous turn his character took in the season eight script.

David Benioff and D.B. Weiss completely neutered Jon Snow's character.

Figuratively and well, maybe literally? Year after year, they have shown themselves to be petty and spiteful with various cast and crew—from Kit Harington to Ian McElhinney to Alexander Siddig to George R.R. Martin, himself.

Remember that stupid dig at Jon Snow's penis size upon his resurrection? Just a dumb joke, right?

Or was it?

It was sure important enough for them to go on record with major publications and clarify that, no, it wasn't just a joke, but canon! Pay very close attention to how it's worded:

"He just had the look. The brooding intensity; the physical grace; the chip-on-the-shoulder quality that we always associate with extraordinarily short people.

There has to be some downside to being Kit Harington, right? It's impossible not to like him. Maddening. The one thing we can do is saddle his character with a tiny pecker."

This isn't about Jon Snow's penis. It's about taking Kit Harington down a peg. Not only did they give Jon Snow a canonically "small penis", they had to give Daenerys lines about how he's "too little for her", to poke fun at Kit's height. You know, because he's apparently "extraordinarily short".

Utterly juvenile.

Much like with Tyrion Lannister, Jon Snow's cleverness far exceeded that of the men who were in charge of writing him—and they failed to replicate it. And so, the further Jon Snow strayed from his creator, George R.R. Martin, the further his IQ dropped until, by season eight, he was reduced to a bumbling idiot shouting at dragons and saying little more than "muh queen". Why? Because if you're actually an idiot, you cannot write a clever person.

As for the books, Jon Snow's true fate remains to be seen. And for as much as I don't want to get my hopes up for a better ending, I cannot ignore that Jon Snow's foreshadowing just doesn't point to futility, and that if it does—George R.R. Martin sure put in a lot of work to convince us otherwise.

As the man, himself, recently said:

"People know an ending—but not the ending."

It is as much an insult to Jon Snow to have Daenerys descend into spontaneous madness as it was for the fans who loved her. Over the years, Jon has proven himself to be a great judge of character—and this was the man who assured Daenerys, in her most vulnerable moment, that she does deserve to be the queen of the Seven Kingdoms.

After all, there’s just no denying their similarities as characters:

"From the very beginning, Jon and Daenerys' stories have paralleled and contrasted each other, with both starting from a position of weakness and insubordination before ascending into leadership roles. Both had to maneuver their way through the difficulties of power while maintaining their sense of justice, and in doing so, had to face many hard decisions along the way. Both were mocked, attacked, and betrayed for doing the right thing. Both reached their low points and were figuratively reborn at the same time, both coming out stronger as a result." -Brandon Jacobs

If you loved Jon Snow prior to season eight, you were never wrong or misled, nor was your judgment unsound. I hope that, somewhere in this post, there was at least one example that reminded you of why Jon Snow was able to win your heart in the first place. Writers who don't understand the most fundamental qualities of a character should not be given the power to rob you of your love for them.

I am willing to bet that like me, and like all of Jon Snow's fans... you know him better than the two men who were granted the honor of writing his television canon. An honor they proved in season eight that they never deserved.

Please do not grant these two incompetent writers and poor storytellers the power to turn you against one character while praising the other, especially when both were ruined beyond repair or recognition.

Forgiving Jon Snow as a character ≠ condoning what he did in season eight, just as forgiving Daenerys Targaryen ≠ condoning mass genocide.

Like Daenerys, Jon Snow deserved better.

[ladyandtheghost]

How “The Dany-Show” ruined GoT at the core: 3-point system

1. Sansa vs. Cersei: 

How is it possible that we had a million reunions - many of them involving secondary characters for fluff and fan service with zero impact on the plot - but these two women who had so much drama, so much unresolved business, never saw each other again? This is where you would have found the good story to tell and a major plot strand to resolve: the conflict between the Starks and the Lannisters. This is what started it all, this is where it should have ended. This is the story they should have focused on. 

So why didn’t they? 

Because Game of Thrones was already dead and gone and the series had become The Dany-Show and nothing but The Dany-Show. 

Every character, every story arc, everything had to be directed towards Dragon Barbie and her drama. So of course there was no time or space for anything that was not related to the The Dany-Show. Basically a black hole that sucked all the great storylines and characters into its dark void. 

Massive loose plot strands like the Stark-Lannister showdown were left to rot, because it was far more important to show off that CGI budget for gratuitous dragon shots and inane conversations between secondary character including sex jokes on the main. 

There was literally more screen time allotted to the dragons than to Cersei...

After four seasons of Sansa and Cersei constantly referring to each other and the day they would meet again (willingly or not), it’s scandalous that they shoved so many characters back together for pointless reunions that were more or less blatant fan service (Bronn and the Lannister boys, really?!) but the big conflict, the personal drama that was playing out between Sansa and Cersei - that had actually taken on political dimensions now - did not even get a single scene? 

Wrong choice. 

I mean can you even imagine how Lena and Sophie would have acted the shit out of their reunion, because I can and it makes me furious that we were robbed of it. When two characters have so much unfinished business, so much foreshadowing and so much history that still isn’t resolved, the least you can expect is to give them at least a half-assed resolution - but we did not even get that, because it had nothing to do with The Dany-Show. Because all the characters have to only think about Dany and relate to Dany and if there is to be a conflict between female characters, it has to involve Dany and no one else. 

Poor Lena deserved better than to be reduced to playing a two-dimensional shadow of Cersei Lannister who was little more than a prompt giver to The Euron Greyjoy Side-Show (because sex jokes!) 

Also Bonus fuck-up: the prophecy of the YMBQ? Cersei died in the arms of Jaime, if anything Dany’s attack had given her back the one person/thing she cares about. So how exactly did Dany rob her of “all you hold dear” when Dany’s attack caused Jaime to literally drop Brienne like a hot potato, declare his undying love for Cersei and run back into her arms for his final moment? 

Before that, Sansa had already “taken” Jaime into her services together with Brienne. He’d actually switched sides to serve “another queen” (just not Dany) and at least this prophecy made sense for two seconds but of course the YMBQ had to be Dany because it’s The Dany Show, whether it makes sense or not...

They just didn’t care anymore, did they? 

2. Little...who?: 

So we have half a dozen characters rolling up to Winterfell who knew Littlefinger and his dirty business, and Arya, Sansa and Bran are about to go: 

Only for some reason: NO ONE asks. 

There is not a single reference to the fact that the Stark kids found out that Littlefinger is the mastermind behind 90% of everything that has happened since S1 and that he was executed for this. It’s like it never happened and he never existed and neither did all the important plot points before S8. 

Did Jon ever find out that Littlefinger betrayed Ned and conspired with the Lannisters to bring down the Starks? 

Did Tyrion ever find out that Littlefinger framed him at the Purple Wedding?

Did Varys ever find out that his nemesis was outsmarted and defeated by three teenagers?

Nope. Nope. And nope.  

Ain’t we all?

A character who’s been hailed as MVP by a huge part of the fandom because he knew how to network and play the game™ that is advertised in the title like no other, isn’t even mentioned again. One of the most popular theories re: S8 was (ridiculous as I found it myself) “Littlefinger isn’t dead” because many people felt he was still important to the story and there was also a lot of unfinished business with other characters he was connected to...Jon, Varys, Tyrion, Cersei, Sansa...

Instead, Littlefinger himself, his death and every plot point he was ever involved in was simply erased -  because Littlefinger and his relation to these characters had nothing to do with, i.e. did not contribute to...you guessed it...The Dany-Show and therefore POUF, he never existed...

3. R+L = who gives a f***

But you know, these are minor grievances compared to the fact that Jon’s character was not only dumbled down and turned into a complicit in genocide...

Jon’s parentage story arc - you know, THE big revelation and PLOT TWIST  - was turned into a side note, a five-minute mini drama that was more about how this will affect poor little Dany and her feelings. 

They gave us scenes of Dany waxing on about how Jon’s being the one true king stresses her out because she wants the throne and what she expects him to do about it - but they ROBBED us of the moment Jon tells the Stark siblings that he is not truly their brother, but their cousin. 

Because who cares about how Jon feels about this and his “siblings” coming to terms with the fact that:

their father Ned Stark had kept Jon a secret from everyone 

that he had not fathered a bastard and betrayed their mother

but saved the one true heir, at cost of his honour, 

they lived with the Targaryen crown prince and raised him under everyone’s nose...

No, no, the important thing is how Dany feels about it all and how it affects her. 

After the huge build-up, the theories, the overt foreshadowing,  even more infuriating - after throwing poor Elia and her children under the bus and making Jon legitimate...

After literally EVERYTHING in this series leading up to the moment when everyone would know who Jon Snow truly is...it had no effect on the story whatsoever, besides contributing to Dany finally revealing the full extent of her insanity (which was only a matter of time anyways)

Heir to the Iron Throne? Targaryen Prince? Rhaegar’s son? PTWP?

The point is: Drama for poor little Dany because her nephew doesn’t want to fuck her anymore is the actual heir. 

You can’t even say that it led to her advisors finding out and betraying her because that is something they should have done ages ago, at the latest when she burned the Tarlys. It gave them a legitimate alternative option, yes, but it was not the first time they thought she needs to go...

At least R+L=J served one good purpose: it rubbed Dany’s nose in it that she is not special at all. She is NOT the last Targ, nor the “princess that was promised” - and it was never her destiny to rule, she was only ever the “aunt” of the prince. 

Sadly, this is again ALL about Dany and her feelings and how everyone else reacts to her in light of the news that Jon is Aegon. 

So R+L=J is not even about Jon in the end, it’s just another element of The Dany-Show. And once Dany is gone, it’s like R+L=J also got erased (just like Littlefinger and the Stark-Lannister-conflict) 

...because let’s just send the Head of House Targaryen and last of his line beyond the wall again just because the murderous army of the mad tyrant, whom he heroically freed us from, demands it...and of course we have to wrap up the last five minutes of this shitty episode. 

Conclusion: 

D&D just REALLY didn’t care anymore once The Dany-Show was over and it’s painfully obvious to see. The good news is that all of these plot points that got erased/dumbled down/ignored^^ are things that are important to GRRM, which gives me hope for the last books at least...

[dwellordream]

On the other side of Sansa IV, Sansa is once again referring to Jeyne as a ‘child’ for her tears, albeit for a very different reason. Before, Jeyne was distraught over seeing Ser Hugh killed before their eyes. Now, she’s distraught over the fate of her father, despite Sansa’s attempts to reassure Jeyne that Cersei will let her see him again. Sansa admits that she herself was terrified two days earlier (and still is, judging by the way her fingers ‘feel thick and clumsy’ as she struggles to dress herself for her meeting with the council) and was locked in this tower room with no idea what was going on outside, though she could hear men being killed all day long.

After the first day, Jeyne was thrown in the room with her, claiming Sandor Clegane broke down her door with a warhammer and presumably had her brought here. Despite her current irritation with Jeyne, Sansa and her did try to comfort one another that first night, and went to sleep ‘cradled in each other’s arms like sisters’. Tellingly, Sansa is not thinking about Arya right now, either because she genuinely has forgotten about her sister, or because she is actively avoiding thinking about what might have happened to Arya, since it’s obvious something terrible has happened to Ned and Septa Mordane. Sansa has been asking repeatedly to be allowed to see Cersei all this time, though her pleas have gone ignored. Interestingly, the Lannisters don’t ring the bells officially announcing Robert’s death to the city as a whole, until after they’ve dealt with the last of Ned’s soldiers and are certain their hold on the throne is secure for the time being. Sansa doesn’t know Robert was injured during the hunt, or at least doesn’t know he was mortally wounded, and wonders if he was murdered (he was, just not directly). Sansa worries Joffrey may be dead as well, and for her father, since she has no idea where he is or what’s happened to him. She dreams of siting beside Joffrey on the throne that night, dressed in gold, while everyone pays their respects. This is the role we’re going to find Cersei in this chapter as the queen dowager, intending to rule through her son. When Boros comes for her, Sansa notes that he now wears a Lannister broach on his Kingsguard cloak, an obvious declaration of loyalty to Cersei, not the Baratheon regime. Cersei initially told Sansa she was being locked in a room for her own safety, but is frightened as Boros leads her out Maegor’s Holdfast, seeing a corpse in the moat. When she realizes the council is all in black mourning clothes, she feels a sense of dread, despite already knowing Robert has died. Cersei’s gown in particular stands out to her, black with rubies like tears of blood down the front. Also, interestingly, in Targaryen colors, and possibly a pointed reference to Rhaegar’s armor during the battle of the Trident. Cersei is annoyed when she realizes Jeyne was locked up with Sansa, obviously worrying Jeyne may have already told Sansa the truth about the Lannisters’ actions, though fortunately for her Jeyne also had no idea what was happening, and even if she had, Sansa probably wouldn’t have believed her. Sansa begins to feel real alarm when her questions about Vayon, Jeyne’s father, are ignored, Cersei instead passing Jeyne off on Baelish, who will ‘find a place for her’ that’s ‘not in the city’. Jeyne is to be told that she’s being taken to see her father. For Jeyne, this is just the start of being sex trafficked by Littlefinger and kept as a backup pawn in case the Lannisters need her for something, but Sansa has no idea what’s going on, and her sense of alarm only grows. She seems to sense Cersei isn’t being truthful in the least, trying to reassure the queen that Jeyne ‘hasn’t done anything wrong’ and is ‘a good girl’, but Cersei dismisses her concerns, and reminds Sansa of how much she and Joffrey ‘love her’. This praise temporarily appeases Sansa, who is so relieved at the thought that Joffrey loves, up until the council explains to her that Ned is a traitor, and show Sansa the letter Ned meant to send to Stannis, offering him the Iron Throne. Despite this ‘proof’ Sansa refuses to believe her father would ever do such a thing, and begs them to let Ned explain things. Cersei twists this into telling Sansa that they know she is innocent, but her father is a traitor, and she must prove her loyalty, as she already did by telling Cersei about Ned’s plans to send her and Arya from the city. Sansa now reveals that she snuck out to do so that morning before the Lannisters moved against Ned and his household, believing it was for the ‘love’ she bears for Joffrey, and explaining that Ned wouldn’t listen to her questions or complaints. She initially wanted to ask Robert himself to command Ned to let her stay, but decided she had a better chance of success with Cersei, and ‘poured her heart out’ to her. Then she was taken and put into her locked room, and the fighting began a few hours later, while Ned was oblivious she was even missing in the first place. The council’s cooperative gaslighting and manipulation of Sansa is pretty sickening. Varys, Pycelle, Cersei, and Littlefinger all work together to guilt and mold Sansa into denouncing her family then and there, as Cersei reminds Sansa that ‘the blood will tell’ as Arya’s did when Nymeria attacked Joffrey. Sansa protests she is nothing like Arya and doesn’t have Arya’s ‘traitor blood’, begging them to consult Septa Mordane... who is already dead. We then hear that Sansa is the best reader and writer in the family, or at least better than any of her brothers, even Robb and Jon. Still, she balks at the idea of writing to her family that her father is a traitor, and Pycelle warns her that it ‘will go hard for them if you don’t. Sansa offers to talk to Ned, even as Cersei dangles the prospect of marrying Joffrey before her, and Cersei turns on her in an instant, telling Sansa a loyal girl would not want to speak to a traitor. Sansa begins to cry, begging to know if Ned has been harmed, but no one will tell her what may happen to him, only that it’s up to Joffrey. Sansa then decides her only chance to save her father is to plead his case with Joffrey, who may then go easy on him, and that if her family rebels, her attempts to save Ned from execution and eventually have him pardoned will be ruined right off the bat. With this in mind, she hesitantly agrees to write the letters as Cersei commands.

When she is brought back to her room, Jeyne and her clothes are gone, but the room feels ‘colder’ without her presence. Sansa decides to read her favorite stories to distract herself, and then, as she is falling asleep, realizes all at once that she never asked about Arya’s whereabouts or safety.

[margoshansons]

N+A=J, Azor Ahai, and Dawn

Look, before you go and crucify me for presenting and actually believing this theory, just hear me out. I’m not here to convince you or bash on your theory, so please don’t do that with mine.

These are just my opinions and while proof for R+L is stronger and is probably what will happen in the books, I do think that people are missing out on the awesome potential for N+A.

This is not an attempt to prove it. There are people with more dedication and more time on their hands who have tried. I’m only here to discuss why I like this theory from a narrative standpoint better than R+L=J

TLDR: Jon is Azor Ahai and making him a Dayne gives him access to Dawn, cool warg magic, and the potential to be the Sword of the Morning, which I think is pretty sick.

So let’s go!

1. Jon Snow’s Narrative Arc 

Jon Snow is arguably the main character of ASOIAF, with Bran and Daenerys joining him as other main protagonists of the series. And it’s no secret why. 

All three have very distinct, very important relationships to Magic. 

Daenerys has her dragons, Bran is the Three-Eyed Crow, and Jon Snow’s whole storyline is about preparing for the next Long Night. The war against the Others.

It’s been that way since the beginning. We get small bits and pieces of it here and there but once Othar attacks Mormont it’s finally revealed to us and Jon that there are bigger things beyond the wall than wildlings. And we know that this is a complete surprise to Mormont and the other men of the Night’s Watch. 

We also know that there is little written about the Others in Westeros at all, seeing as Sam isn’t able to find much on them when he travels to the Citadel. 

This leads to the Great Ranging which leads to the Battle of the Fist of the First Men, which leads to the mutiny, which leads to Jon betraying the wildings which leads to the Battle at the Wall, which eventually gets him elected Lord Commander.

My point being, Jon’s storyline at this point has been spent 100% in the North surrounded by magic. There is no indication of him going south, no indication of politics beyond strategy and Stannis, no indication of him doing anything except planning for a battle against the Others and trying to save as many people as possible. 

IN FACT! The reason he gets shanked is because he momentarily forgets his duty and puts the same people he promised to save in danger. 

Up until Jon gets the pink letter, he never thinks about going south, but then “Arya” is in trouble and he puts NW and wildling men at risk. That is why he gets stabbed, that’s why they say “For the Watch”

Because in doing so he not only forgets his vows, but also the cause the men had pledged themselves to. 

Now, all of this next bit is speculation based on what I personally think is going to happen and why I think Jon being Ashara’s son makes for a better narrative. 

We know several plot points need to be resolved regarding Jon. I personally think he warged in Ghost, and then Melisandre will give him the last kiss as a priestess of r’hllor, which resurrects him like Beric Dondarrion.

Now, interesting thing here. The last kiss is a common funeral rite for the religion of the R’hllor and there’s another name for it as well.

The last kiss is a rite practiced by the red priests of R'hllor. When a follower of the Lord of Light dies, priests fill their mouths with fire and breathe flame into the deceased, as they believe that fire cleanses and is a bright gift. Harwin and Thoros of the brotherhood without banners refer to it as the kiss of life. (Wiki of Ice and Fire)

So, a kiss of life that is related to fire, that’s interesting. You know what else is interesting? 

The exact circumstances of Jon’s death. It’s very different than what happened in the show. The show scene was quoted as being “a bad guy killing a good guy” while the books made it much more morally grey. 

The most interesting part of Jon’s death, however, is Bowen Marsh sticking the dagger in Jon. He’s not only the first person to deal a mortal blow, but GRRM describes in detail how much Marsh is weeping, and how tragic this end really is. 

Hmmmm, is it just me or is this starting to sound familar?

Flames, saltwater, wow this is really starting to remind me of something, but I can’t quite put my finger on it....

*stares into the camera like I’m on the office*

He’s being set up to be reborn amidst salt and smoke!

And now we get to my main part of the theory (took us long enough) but before that happens I need to make one thing very clear. 

The Prince that Was Promised and Azor Ahai are NOT the same person. 

Yes, Melisandre refers to them interchangeably, but no offense, she’s wrong...like a lot. 

And while we know that Rhaegar knew about TPTWP, it was highly unlikely he knew about the Others, because as stated above, there is little to no information about them in Westeros and they haven’t been seen since the Long Night. So I really don’t have any idea why Rhaegar would think his son was destined to destroy beings that didn’t exist. 

He got the details of TPTWP from Valyrian scrolls, and based on the info we have, Valyrians never interacted with the Others.

Azor Ahai on the other hand, is prophecized to directly battle with “the Great Other” which Mel connects to the Others (although this isn’t confirmed). On top of this, here are the two prophecies of Azor Ahai and TPTWP

TPTWP

born of Aerys and Rhaella’s line

born of salt and smoke

prophecised by a bleeding star

has a song of ice and fire

“the dragon must have three heads”

will deliver the world from darkness

will wake dragons from stone

Obviously this is exclusive to Targaryens, and Rhaegar was even thought to be the Prince that was Promised, but I think this applies to Daenerys or Aegon more than Jon even with R+L.

Especially considering Rhaegar used the song of ice and fire line on Aegon before even thinking of Lyanna. 

Azor Ahai:

will show up after a long summer

born or reborn amidst salt and smoke

born or reborn after “stars bleed” and “the cold breath of darkness falls heavy on the world”

will draw forth a burning sword named Lightbringer

will ultimately fight against the Great Other

There’s no mention of dragons, songs, or anything else that most people use to interchange the two. Now the reason I bring this up is because if Jon turns out to be the son of Ned and Ashara, then he not only has a claim to Winterfell through Robb’s will, but he also can claim Dawn, the Dayne’s ancestral sword. 

Dawn is a unique sword in the fact that its not made of Valyrian Steel but it’s just as sharp. It’s blade is described as “pale milkglass” and it’s a two-handed greatsword wielded by the Sword of the Morning. It was forged from the heart of a falling star and is the entire origin for House Dayne. It’s even said to glow.

The intesting thing about it? Only a Dayne can wield it. 

It’s not passed down from father to son like most Valyrian Steel swords, but is instead given to the knight most worthy of possessing it. 

GRRM has always emphasized the importance of Swords, especially Valyrian Steel swords. But I think what’s so interesting about Dawn is that we get its history in the very first book, and Arthur and Ashara Dayne are some of the only named Dornish characters we get from that time period.

(Also, just a fun fact, George has said that if he could wield a sword it would be Dawn, so do with that what you will)

I think that Dawn is Lightbringer, and the fact that George hasn’t given much information about the Daynes (a relatively minor house) when asked, makes me think that they play a much bigger part in the endgame than we think.

They have ties to the First Men, which means they were around during the first Long Night and the Battle for the Dawn. This also means that they potentially have the same warging abilities the Starks do, which would only be heightened if they were joined. 

(I have so many theories on the First Men and magic, but that would take longer to get into than this.)

So, if Jon were to be the son of Ned and Ashara, then he could become the Sword of the Morning, which provides interesting imagery when you place it next to “The Long Night”.

It also would create one of my favorite parallels. Ned Stark heads to Starfall to return Dawn to Ashara after killing her brother, The Sword of the Morning. Jon Snow/Stark heads to Starfall to claim Dawn after being declared the Sword of the Morning and Ashara’s son.

Tbh, I just love this theory because magic! And heartbreaking parallels. 

In conclusion, ASOIAF is messy and complicated and won’t be solved with a perfect parentage reveal. I think this one is interesting and while I think R+L=J will be what’s revealed (tbh I don’t mind it as long as they don’t romanticize it), I think there’s just as great a story if Jon really is the bastard of Ned and Ashara Dayne.

Please be kind, I am only a lady who likes cool theories with way too much time on her hands.

[laannie0803]

Ashara Dayne fue hija de Lord Dayne, Señor de Campoestrella.

Ashara es descrita como una mujer alta, de tez clara, con largo cabello oscuro y hechiceros ojos color violeta, extremadamente hermosa.

Tuvo dos hermanos, Dayne y Arthur, y una hermana, Allyria.

Fue una de las damas de compañía de la princesa Elia Martell de Dorne, la esposa del príncipe Rhaegar Targaryen. En 281 d.C., estuvo presente en el Torneo de Harrenhal. Durante los banquetes, Ashara bailó con Ser Barristan Selmy, el príncipe Oberyn Martell y Lord Jon Connington; también bailó con Eddard Stark, pero sólo después que su hermano Brandon se lo pidiera. Según su hermana Allyria, Ashara y Eddard Stark se enamoraron tras conocerse en Harrenhal.

Después de la confrontación de la Torre de la Alegría, Eddard viajó a Campoestrella para informar la muerte de Ser Arthur y devolver su gran espada, Albor. Ashara saltó de lo alto de la torre Espada de Piedrablanca, en Campoestrella, hacia un acantilado al lado del mar. Su cuerpo nunca fue recuperado. Se cree que se suicidó a causa de un corazón roto, pero los rumores también apuntan a la pena por haber dado a luz un hijo muerto, a que fue robada de su hijo recién nacido o a la pena tras recibir la noticia de la muerte de su hermano Arthur.

Poco después, Eddard Stark regresó a Invernalia con un bebé, a quien dio el nombre de Jon Nieve. Esto provocó rumores de que Ashara había sido la madre del hijo bastardo de Eddard y que el dolor de saber que su amante había sido responsable de la muerte de su hermano fue la causa de su suicidio. Lord Stark puso fin a todos los chismes sobre Ashara como la madre de Jon.

Meera Reed cuenta a Bran Stark la historia del Caballero del Árbol Sonriente, que tuvo lugar durante el Torneo de Harrenhal. Le menciona que "... el lacustre vio a una dama de hechizantes ojos púrpura junto con un espada blanca, una serpiente roja y al señor de los grifos, y por último al lobo silencioso... Pero sólo después de que el lobo salvaje hablase a la doncella en nombre de un hermano demasiado tímido".

Edric Dayne le cuenta a Arya Stark sobre su tía Ashara, que murió antes de que él naciera, y que se había suicidado porque "su corazón quedó hecho pedazos". Edric se sorprende de que Arya nunca oyera hablar de Ashara y que su padre nunca haya hablado de ella. Edric le dice a Arya que su tía Allyria comentaba que Ashara y Ned se enamoraron en Harrenhal. Esto molesta a Arya, quien insiste en que su madre era la única a quien su padre amaba. Harwin confirma haber escuchado la historia cuando era joven, pero duda que sea enteramente cierta. Harwin es uno de los que cree que Ashara se suicidó mientras guardaba luto por su hermano Arthur.

Ser Barristan Selmy revela que Ashara se suicidó porque había dado a luz una niña muerta. De acuerdo a Selmy, un Stark la deshonró en el Torneo de Harrenhal. Según esta versión de los hechos, Ashara quedó devastada por la muerte de su hija y avergonzada de cómo Stark la había deshonrado, por lo que se suicidó. Igualmente lamenta el no haber ganado el torneo, ya que hubiera coronado a Ashara como Reina del Amor y la Belleza.

Ashara Dayne was the daughter of Lord Dayne, Lord of Starfield.

Ashara is described as a tall, fair-skinned woman with long dark hair and haunting violet eyes, extremely beautiful.

She had two brothers, Dayne and Arthur, and a sister, Allyria.

She was one of the ladies-in-waiting of Princess Elia Martell of Dorne, the wife of Prince Rhaegar Targaryen. In 281 AD, she was present at the Harrenhal Tournament. During the banquets, Ashara danced with Ser Barristan Selmy, Prince Oberyn Martell, and Lord Jon Connington; She also danced with Eddard Stark, but only after her brother Brandon asked her to. According to her sister Allyria, Ashara and Eddard Stark fell in love after meeting in Harrenhal.

After the Tower of Joy confrontation, Eddard traveled to Starfield to report the death of Ser Arthur and return his great sword, Dawn. Ashara leapt from the top of the Whitestone Sword tower in Starfield onto a cliff by the sea. Her body was never recovered. It is believed that she committed suicide because of a broken heart, but rumors also point to the penalty for having given birth to a stillborn child, that she was stolen from her newborn son or the penalty after receiving the news of the death of her brother Arthur.

Shortly after, Eddard Stark returned to Winterfell with a baby, whom he gave the name Jon Snow. This sparked rumors that Ashara had been the mother of Eddard's bastard son and that the pain of knowing that her lover had been responsible for her brother's death was the cause of her suicide. Lord Stark put an end to all gossip about Ashara as Jon's mother.

Meera Reed tells Bran Stark the story of the Knight of the Smiling Tree, which took place during the Harrenhal Tournament. He mentions that "... the lake saw a lady with bewitching purple eyes along with a white sword, a red snake and the lord of the griffins, and finally the silent wolf ... But only after the wild wolf speak to the maiden in the name of a too timid brother. "

Edric Dayne tells Arya Stark about his Aunt Ashara, who died before he was born, and who had committed suicide because "her heart was shattered." Edric is surprised that Arya never heard of Ashara and that her father never spoke of her. Edric tells Arya that his Aunt Allyria was commenting that Ashara and Ned fell in love in Harrenhal. This annoys Arya, who insists that her mother was the only one her father loved. Harwin confirms hearing the story when he was young, but doubts it is entirely true. Harwin is one of those who believes that Ashara committed suicide while mourning her brother Arthur.

Ser Barristan Selmy reveals that Ashara committed suicide because she had given birth to a dead girl. According to Selmy, a Stark disgraced her at the Harrenhal Tournament. According to this version of events, Ashara was devastated by the death of her daughter and ashamed of how Stark had disgraced her, so she committed suicide. He also regrets not having won the tournament, as it would have crowned Ashara Queen of Love and Beauty.

[vicleesi]

About GoT Episode 4:

First of all, I’m completely exhausted from turning a blind eye to the multiple flaws in the D & D scripts (and it was they who wrote this episode). The strength of Game of Thrones came right from the details thanks to the incredible world that George R. R. Martin created and D & D destroyed. So no, I will not spare you them.

- The beginning was good. I just do not understand why Jon made his speech without looking at the survivors of Winterfell.

- The party dinner was generally good. In these last seasons, Game of Thrones has managed to maintain a good quality in the interaction between characthers. Episode 2 was basically all that and it was good for me. The problem is when GoT starts off for the story  - which is already lost.

- Daenerys’s loneliness was well portrayed. Too bad the series prematurely killed Selmy Barristan, did not it?

- First failure of attention to detail that detracts from the series’ worldbuilding: Gendry Rivers, what? Is he from the Riverlands, by any chance? Bastard born and raised in King’s Landing is named after Waters. His name was Gendry Waters (actually it was just Gendry, since Robert never recognized him as his bastard son). Why change that, D & D? To be different?

- I wish Gendry good luck trying to persuade the Storm lords to bend over to a bastard who does not understand a thing about ruling a castle. But of course the series will not talk about that. At least they did not give Storm’s to Brienne or to Davos (by the way, when the Davos family will show up?)

- Leaving a bit out of order, but taking advantage of feudal politics, what’s going on in Dorne?” D & D mentioned a new Prince of Dorne who swore loyalty to Daenerys. Hi? What? When? Who? WHY??? D & D had the brilliant idea of ​​making the Martells exterminate each other and still reap the rewards of their genius. Dorne remains the worst arc in the series and quite possibly one of the worst book-media visual adaptations ever.

- They also mentioned Riverrun again. What happened to the Riverlands after the Freys all died? Where is Edmure Tully? Who controls Riverrun?

- Writers creating a whole scene by saying that Brienne is a virgin. Not necessary.

- There was not a crippled nephew of Daeron Targaryen. D & D creating Targaryens whenever they want, although there is a well-defined story in the books. (FIRE AND BLOOD)

- There was finally a scene between Sandor and Sansa. It only took 4 episodes to happen. Once again they put Sansa as the product of her suffering, justifying the idiot choices D & D made for her character. Nothing new, otherwise it was a totally forgettable dialogue (I already forgot).

- The Bronn Paradox: If Bronn is not serving Daenerys while the war is rolling, who guarantees that he will receive his castle in the end? Especially considering he was utterly disillusioned with the promises of the Lannisters to the point of being ready to kill his two best friends? In fact, did D & D forget that Jaime himself had offered Highgarden to the Bronn last season?

- Again, as for Gendry, I wish Bronn good luck in trying to establish his feudal dominion over the proud lords of Highgarden who did not even tolerate the right Tyrells, and the Tyrells were an old family and had already been entrenched in there for centuries. Of course, D & D do not care.

- The Paradox of the Wildlings: Why were they known as wildlings? Because they tried to conquer the Wall from time to time and were always looting the North in search of resources and riches. Because their land was a shit, where nothing grew and it was always winter, basically. Now the they finally made it through the Wall and gain access to the best lands, even more with the support of the Winterfell and Starks. What do they do? That’s right: they go back to their shit place because D & D have that same shit on their heads.

- What else is north of Winterfell and south of the Wall are lands with no one, thanks to the King of the Night.“ But the wildlings choose to go back to Castle Black and, by all means, beyond the Wall. Seven Hells.

- I will not even comment on Jon’s scene sending Ghost away.” If it was for him to appear that way, it was better for the wolf to have been m.i.a as before.

- Sam Tarly is a Night’s Watch man. Men of Night’s Watch should not have children. When will anyone say that? Did not Jon even mention it? What happened to Night’s Watch? Why is Sam still dressed in black? If he’s out, why did not he become Lord Tarly?

- The arc of Night’s Watch is going to be without conclusion anyway? Are they gone?

- The army of the living has lost only half its men? It was not what it looked like in episode 3. But okay, D & D create and describe armies whenever they think it’s valid - just like Night’s Watch, apparently.

- As they are doing this season, D & D cut important dialogue scenes because they do not know what to write. In the first episode they cut off Daenerys before she finished threatening Sansa. In the second episode they cut their scene together before Dany could answer the question “What about the North?”. At the end of it cut the scene Jon x Dany in the crypts. Now they cut the scene of Sansa and Arya discovering that Jon is not their brother. Why, man? What is the reason? I’m shocked that D & D did not cut Jon’s reaction to finding out that he’s a bastard of Rhaegar and Lyanna (yes, he’s a bastard, D & D, no matter how many fanfics they write).

- Arya in the first moment: we are a family! Arya in 2nd moment: left King’s Landing, goodbye Winterfell, until never again! and yes she left for good, she said she ain’t coming back!

That was the good part of the episode. Let’s go to the bad part!!

- So you want to tell me that Euron can hit three harpoons in a dragon in mid-flight?“

- So you want to tell me that Daenerys from the sky was unable to see the Greyjoy fleet hidden behind an islet?”

- So you want to tell me that Daenerys never considered the possibility that it was a bad idea to sail to Dragonstone as they knew Euron controlled the seas there?“

- So you want to tell me that Rhaegal was not killed by the zombie dragon brother in the apocalyptic Battle of the long night fighting for the fate of the men’s kingdom only to die in the next episode in a few seconds for Euron Greyjoy’s magical harpoons?

-So you want to tell me how easy it is to kill dragons like that?” It amazes me that Aegon conquered Westeros three hundred years ago.

- Daenerys should have flown directly to King’s Landing and fired at everything after the Rhaegal’s death. Fire and Blood!!

- Jaime returning to Cersei: hi? What the fuck? If it is to join her and not kill her right away, Jaime will be the greatest example of character assassination that D & D has committed since Stannis Baratheon.

- How did Team Dany know that Missandei had been captured? Euron made propaganda, sent in the email?

- Is Varys loyal to Jon Snow? REALLY? What does Varys know about Jon Snow? When did he meet Jon Snow? When did they share at least one scene together? They never talked. Varys never saw him rule. Where do the writers get these crazy ideas?

- Nonsense to be creating intrigue over the marriage between Jon and Daenerys. She will need to get married to have children and continue the dynasty. Who is she getting married to, Hot Pie?

- By the way, there have been marriages between uncles and nieces among the Starks. Brothers Jonnel and Edric Stark married their nieces Serena and Sansa Stark some 150 years ago to try to end a crisis of succession, since their father, Rickon, heir to Winterfell, had been killed in the conquest of Dorne. It would not surprise me if GRRM specifically placed these marriages in history just for this situation that was raised in the conversation between Tyrion and Varys. In fact, marriages between uncles and nieces were not exactly uncommon in our own history. In Brasil, Dom Pedro I was grandson of D. Maria I of Portugal, who was married to his uncle, D. Pedro III, precisely to avoid a dynastic crisis.

- Again the bullshit that Robert’s Rebellion was built on a lie. I imagine the Crazy King burning the Lord of Winterfell and his heir and begging for Ned and Robert’s head did not influence that at all.

- Dany is an emotional woman who’s going crazy. So we need a rational man to help her.

- Dany is an emotional woman who’s going crazy. So we need a rational man to help her!!

- Oh, excuse me if I repeated myself, but this nonsense does not go down. They disrespected Daenerys, disrespected her journey, disrespected even the “girl power” they tried to do last season (Dany, Olenna Tyrell, Cersei and the Martells). The mysoginism of these so-called D & D appearing once more to claim another innocent victim.

- Why did Cersei not kill Tyrion?

- Why did Cersei not kill Daenerys?

- Euron does not suspect anything after Tyrion reveals he knew Cersei was pregnant?“ Since Euron himelf knew only minutes ago?

- D & D really put an end to the apocalypse so we can have Cersei grinning in the last three episodes? Is this serious?

- Euron is Cersei’s puppy. Euron in the series is another completely character , they should have changed his name in the adaptation as they did with the Asha (Yara).

- No turning back with the Night King. D & D make us muggles.

- Finally: where’s the winter ??? It seems King’s Landing is in the tropics.

- Cancel this and the next two episodes. Let GoT finish in episode 3, at least so we would have something minimally satisfying. D & D continue to insult the viewer’s intelligence.

"At least the show’s songs never fails to please.”

*this analysis is not mine I translated from a brazilian friend

[sepedarodatiga]

I need closure, so I’m going to write about this one last time.

It boils down to admitting that I was completely wrong in interpreting what the story is about. I have to admit that I have been duped into thinking that Jonsa was the main story. I mean, of course the first reaction that I have when I saw the leaks and witness that the leak was real was denial. This can’t be the ending.

But now I think acceptance is coming.

I thought I had GoT (and by extension ASOIAF) figured out. GRRM hides his true protagonist underneath other characters and their stories. First we thought Ned Stark was the detective that was going to solve Jon Arryn’s murder. He died, we were shock. Jon Arryn’s murder was also not that important. Then Robb Stark rises, we root for him and it seems that he is winning. Then the Red Wedding happened. We were shocked. The War of Five Kings falter.

Then season 6 happened and Jon becomes the King in the North, his true identity is a Targaryen prince and an heir to the throne, he’s got hot sexual tension with his redhead Stark sister Sansa who after the parentage reveal will become his cousin. A Targaryen hidden prince and a Stark girl who is a queen material. Poetry. Fairytale. Perfection.

At that time, it suddenly clicks to me, well of course Ned must die and of course Robb must die, otherwise how will Jon the true hidden protagonist can rise and become king? So we expect the story will come to the conclusion for Jon to become the king and marries his love interest and solve all the political issues in the Seven Kingdoms. Because he is the true hidden protagonist, right?

Gosh, I really should have known better.

(I know that I am oversimplifying things with the whole “one true protagonist” thing but I’m just trying to make this make sense somehow. Also this is not to say that Jonsa is not important to the story. It is important, but in the same way Ned and Robb's story is important but it is just not endgame)

When I took that conclusion I forgot about Brandon Stark. The character that Jojen Reed claims as the only thing that matters. The first character that GRRM made when he started ASOIAF. The fairytale that is Jonsa turns out to be just another layer of a very intricate and elaborate red herring to cover up GRRM’s true protagonist Brandon Stark (and to some extent Arya Stark, because she killed the Night King). So of course Jonsa must fall and that fall was brought upon by one Daenerys Targaryen.

I have to laugh to my own argument about Jonsa being the main endgame couple because the very first shot of the Starks was Jon Snow with his brother Bran followed by Sansa Stark with his sister Arya. 

It's the other way around. It's a shot of Bran Stark with his secret prince adoptive brother Jon followed by Arya Stark with her sister Sansa.

I had a tiny bit suspicion when I was working on my jonsa parallel series. They have always been clever with the episode titles. One title that stood out to me was 4x05 - First of His Name. At that episode, King Tommen was crowned and that was the first reference to this episode title. But the jonsa parallel in that episode relates heavily to Bran, and specifically Lysa Arryn brought up Sansa’s uncle Brandon Stark. And of course Bran the Builder is the founder of House Stark. This should have been a clue to how big Bran’s role is, but who would’ve guess if they only give us cryptic clues like this?

Then there was 2x08 - The Prince of Winterfell. Bran along with Rickon was the the Stark princes that still stayed at Winterfell. Bran as the oldest is the one who has authority towards Winterfell. Theon took Winterfell from Bran.

The other brilliant one is 3x08 - Second Sons which refers to Daario Naharis’ company, but it also revolves around Sansa’s marriage to Tyrion Lannister, who is the second son of the Lannister family. Who else is a second son? Yes, Jon (Aegon) who is Rhaegar’s second son and also... Bran. Bran is Ned Stark’s second son.

So I believe that the Starks at the end are where GRRM wanted them to be. I remember a leak that takes the form of five questions and that leak state that Jon’s last scene is the Wall. It also ties in very nicely with the first scene in GoT with Waymar Royce. Yes, this was always to be his ending. Jonsa must dissolves by making Jon a traitor, queenslayer and kinslayer and to be exiled to the Wall.

But does this story with Jonsa as the final and biggest red herring works? As it is now with the show, the answer is a definitive no for me for several reasons.

First the build up time. Ned’s story was given ample time to build up with enough focus, 9 episodes until his death. And Robb’s story was given even more, a whole of season 2 and large part of season 3 until the red wedding. Jonsa was built up in season 6 with their fall starting on episode 3 of season 7. But when did Bran ever became focus of the story. We always thought, he MUST be important, but how, when, why? Bran Stark never rises, he’s always in the background until suddenly in the very last episode, he’s king.... It also doesn’t help at all that he’s becoming this emotionally detached being that we find hard to empathize with. It is just a sad sad irony that jonsa as the red herring is a much more emotionally compelling story, with characters played by actors that happens to spark chemistry to the roof, rather than the true hidden Prince Bran. (And I’m not even going to try to address the cult personality of Daenerys Targaryen that add a complex layer of red herring)

Second, Jonsa never truly happened in the show. We were given subtext after subtext and the culmination never happened. I am inclined to think that in the books Jonsa will happen and pol!Jon is real. The betrayal towards Daenerys Targaryen will be full blown Jon having an incest affair with his sister and he will father a bastard with her (Yes, I am still holding on to that theory because it only make sense given all the clues. And think about it, Bran’s fall was brought by an incest couple Jaime/Cersei and later his rise will be brought by Jonsa).  I think the show just didn’t have the balls to fully materialize that betrayal and either way, the ending would still be the same, Jon exiled at the Wall for killing Dany and Sansa stayed in Winterfell ruling (in my version, with a bastard son named Snow).

The third and most important aspect of why Bran doesn’t work is because his power is supernatural and so his kingship does not feel earned at all. I really don’t know why GRRM is going with this...like....at all, or if he even going with this in the books? But I believe this is the ending that he wanted: Aegon Targaryen kneeling before Brandon Stark.

“You were exactly where you were supposed to be” 

In the end this deceit got me hurt, heartbroken, sad, unfulfilled. But I will never regret to be a part of this lovely fandom that has taught me so much. Seriously, I learn so so much from everyone’s meta and I am forever thankful for that. I wouldn’t have reach this conclusion without reading all of your wonderful meta and I wouldn’t have been able to write shit without you setting the example. So again, thank you and I hope everybody will recover soon!

[multi-fandom-imagines8]

Fate

Part 3

Summary: In the North, you expected them to welcome you, but instead you were met with dislike and glares. Jon informs you about his real parentage and the army of the dead arrives.

Part one, part two.

Warnings: Season 8 episodes 1-4 spoilers.

Word Count: 1906.

You and Jon rode into Winterfell towards the crowd of people standing within. When you arrived at the castle, Jon’s family was waiting for him. He hadn’t seen his brother Bran for 8 years or so. He dismounted his horse, walked up to him and kissed his forehead. Then he hugged his sister Sansa.

“Queen Y/n of House Targaryen. My sister, Sansa Stark, the Lady of Winterfell” he introduced the two of you.

“Thank you for inviting us into your home, Lady Stark. The North is as beautiful as your brother claimed, as are you” you complimented.

“Winterfell is yours, Your Grace” she didn’t seem to like you.

“We don't have time for all this. The Night King has your dragon. He's one of them now. The Wall has fallen, the dead march south” Bran informed you.

Sansa and Jon summoned their Bannermen to the hall to discuss the plan of fighting the Night King. Many of them didn’t like that he bent the knee to you and hardly accepted you as their queen. They argued with him , but Tyrion managed to interfere and remind them of the bigger problem that you have now.

After that, you and Jon walked together outside as the men started preparing for the war.

“Your sister doesn't like me” you remarked.

“She doesn't know you. If it makes you feel any better, she didn't like me either when we were growing up” he informed you.

“I find that hard to believe” you chuckled.

You went to check on your dragons and Jon followed.

They growled softly. “What's wrong with them?” Jon asked.

“They don't like the North” you climbed on Drogon’s back and waited for Jon “go on” you gave him permission.

“I don't know how to ride a dragon” he looked at Rhaegal unsure what to do.

“Nobody does. Until they ride a dragon” you encouraged him.

“What if he doesn't want me to?” He was still hesitant.

“Then I've enjoyed your company, Jon Snow” you smiled. He walked around the side of him and climbed on his back.

“What do I hold onto?” He questioned.

“Whatever you can”you flew high and the dragons kept turning right and left, until you were far away from the people near a canyon.

“You've completely ruined horses for me”. You giggled and walked until you noticed a beautiful waterfall.

“We could stay a thousand years. No one would find us” you wished.

“We'd be pretty old” Jon stated.“It's cold up here for a southern girl”.

“So keep your queen warm” you ordered and he pulled in and kissed you.

Drogon growled softly causing Jon to pull away.

“Don’t be afraid” it was easy for you to say, they’d never harm you. You smiled and continued to kiss in each other’s embrace. Jon opened his eyes to see Drogon still staring at him.

The next day, Jaime was captured and you summon the council to decide his fate. You wanted to execute him and Sansa agreed with you for once until Brienne vouched for him and Sansa changed her mind. Jaime informed you that Cersei’s not sending her army but he intends to fight for the living. You asked Jon about his opinion and he told you they need everyman they can get. You agreed and let him stay.

“Thank you, your grace” Jon existed the hall. He seemed different, distant, uncertain.

Later that day, you wanted Sansa to get to know you and went to speak with her.

“Lady Sansa, I was hoping we could speak alone” you interrupted her conversation with Royce. And she walked with you until you found yourselves at the library.

“I thought you and I were on the verge of agreement before. About Ser Jaime”.

“Brienne has been loyal to me, always. I trust her more than anyone” she informed you.

“I wish I could have that kind of faith in my advisors” you remembered it was Tyrion’s idea to talk to Cersei.

“Tyrion is a good man. He was never anything but decent towards me”.

“I didn't ask him to be my Hand simply because he was good. I asked him to be my Hand because he was good, and intelligent, and ruthless when he had to be. He never should have trusted Cersei”.

“You never should have either”.

“I thought he knew his sister and I had my doubts”.

“Families are complicated”.

“Ours certainly have been” you started to bond.

“A sad thing to have in common” Sansa expressed.

“We have other things in common. We've both known what it means to lead people who aren't inclined to accept a woman's rule. And we've both done a damn good job of it, from what I can tell.And yet, I can't help but feel we're at odds with one another. Why is that? Your brother” you asked.

“He loves you, you know that” she remarked.

“That bothers you?” You were confused.

“Men do stupid things for women. They're easily manipulated” she stated.

“All my life, I’ve been raised to achieve one goal: the Iron Throne. Taking it back from the people who destroyed my family, and almost destroyed yours. My war was against them. Until I met Jon. Now I'm here, half a world away, fighting Jon's war alongside him. Tell me, who manipulated whom?”.

“I should have thanked you the moment you arrived. That was a mistake” she placed her hand on yours and you placed your other hand on top of hers.

“I’m here because I love your brother and I trust him, and I know he's true to his word. He's the first man in my life I can say that about”.

“And what happens afterwards? We defeat the dead, we destroy Cersei. What happens then?” Sansa questioned.

“uhm, I suppose I take the Iron Throne” you weren’t sure as you should be.

“What about the North? It was taken from us, and we took it back. And we said we'd never bow to anyone else again. What about the North?” She reminded.

You sighed and were about to say something to her before the maester interrupted and informed you of Theon’s return.

In the evening, you were gathered in the library to discuss your plan. The plan was to be near Bran, but not near enough that Night King could see you. That way you could trap him and kill him. After done discussing the plan, people started to leave, Jon included.

“Your grace” he hasn’t looked at you all day or said any words other than these. You started to grow suspicious and decided to confront him about it.

After searching for him and not finding him, you asked Bran about his whereabouts and he told you he was down in the crypts.

You saw him staring at a statue of a woman. You walked up to him and he glanced at you and smiled.

You held his arm and looked at the statue “who’s that?”.

“Lyanna Stark”.

“My uncle Rhaegar, everyone told me he was decent and kind. He liked to sing. Gave money to poor children. Actually, you remind me of him, but then he raped her” you were confused as to why he’d do such thing.

“He didn’t. He loved her” now you were even confused more than you were before.

“They were married in secret. After Rhaegar fell on the Trident, she had a son. Robert would have murdered the baby if he ever found out, and Lyanna knew it. So the last thing she did, as she bled to death on her birthing bed, was give the boy to her brother, Ned Stark, to raise as his bastard” he revealed.

You looked at him, slightly concerned as you connected the dots.

“My name. My real name is Aegon Targaryen” he admitted.

“That's impossible” you exhaled sharply.

“I wish it were”.

“Who told you this?”.

“Bran. He saw it”.

“He saw it?”.

“And Samwell confirmed it. He read about their marriage at the Citadel without even knowing what it meant”.

“A secret no one in the world knew except your brother and your best friend. Doesn't seem strange to you?”.

“It's true,Y/n. I know it is”.

“If it were true, it would make you the last male heir of House Targaryen. You'd have a claim to the Iron Throne” you realized and before you could finish a horn blared and you had to leave. The army of the dead has arrived.

Everything was dark, half of your Dothraki army was gone, it looked like you were losing. You and Jon rode Drogon and Rhaegal and tried to fight the Night King who had Viserion, but with the darkness and the storm it was hard for you to see anything. Rhaegal and Viserion fought and Rhaegal got injured, making his landing rough and Jon fell to the ground.

As soon as Jon saw the Night King, he ran towards him but before he could reach him, The night Kong raised the dead and now Jon was surrounded by them, fighting his way out.

“Dracarys!” Drogon lighted them up and freed Jon.

“Bran!” He shouted.

“Go!” You were left on the battlefield alone after many wights tried to climb on Drogon and he flew away.

A wight was about to attack you, but Jorah appeared and killed him. Both of you fought side by side and he died for you then and there.

You came to Westeros to take back what’s yours and to return home, but you’ve already lost a dragon and your best advisor and warrior. The worst part is, it wasn’t over yet. Who knows how much more you’ll lose before getting to the Iron Throne”.

Arya killed the Night King and with it, the great war was won.

At dawn, the bodies of the fallen were gathered and Jon gave a speech before burning the bodies. Everyone had a day to mourn their loved ones.

At night, there was a feast to celebrate your victory. You legitimized the bastard Gendry, son of Robert Baratheon and appointed him Lord of Storm’s End.

“All of it. Go on!” Tormund handed Jon a drink.

“No, not in one go” Jon was surrounded by his friends and Sansa, while you were alone.

“Go on. I believe in you” Sansa encouraged.

“We have to celebrate our victory” Tormund told him.

“Vomiting is not celebrating” Jon stated.

“Yes, it is” Tormund was convinced.

“I saw him riding that thing” Tormund told the others.

“That's right, you did” Davos said.

“I did. That's why we all agreed to follow him. That's the kind of man he is. He's little but he's strong. Strong enough to befriend an enemy and get murdered for it! Most people get bloody murdered, they stay that way. Not this one” he kept complimenting him.

“Yeah, I didn't have much say in that” Jon smiled.

“Ah! He comes back and keeps fighting. Here, north of the Wall, and then back here again.He keeps fighting.

He keeps fighting. He climbed on a fucking dragon and fought. What kind of person climbs on a fucking dragon? A madman or a king!”.

Jon turned his head back and gave you a smile and you returned it.

Never in your life have you felt that insulted or alone. You felt like a foreigner, you missed your mother, Jorah even the Land you were raised in.

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