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jbuffyangel · 4 months
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The Love We Deserve: Arrow 2x06 Review (Keep Your Enemies Closer)
This is the episode I knew the writers were going THERE with Olicity. I wasn’t sure about endgame. I certainly did not know how Oliver and Felicity’s story would unfold, but “Keep Your Enemies Closer” confirmed we were in this, fam. We were in this all the way.
2013 Jen's live reaction:
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Let’s dig in…
Olicity
The first scene immediately sets up this juxtaposition between Felicity, Oliver and Isabel and it carries through the episode. It’s not a love triangle. Isabel doesn’t matter enough to warrant a point on a triangle, but they use her (quite effectively I might add) to show Oliver and Felicity are anything but “just friends.”
Isabel is bitching at Oliver for whatever-he-failed-to-do-this-week and Felicity is trying to get his attention for some arrow (Roy Harper) related business. Initially, she tries using “Mr. Queen” in a very boss/employee way, but ultimately is fed up with being ignored and yells “Oliver!”
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Isabel barely tosses Felicity a glance, but Oliver ends the Co-CEO argument to leave with Felicity. Trust me when I say, Isabel clocks this decision.
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Source: @okmcintyre
Oliver and Felicity join Diggle in his search for Lyla Michaels. She went to Russia to search for Deadshot and now she’s missing. Oliver uses a Queen Consolidated subsidiary in Moscow as their cover story and use of the company jet. Unfortunately, Isabel tags along. She believes Oliver is meeting with their overseas partners behind her back. Once she discovered Oliver didn’t have any meetings planned with their subsidiary in Moscow, her accusations shift to Felicity.
Oliver: I’m not this person you think I am.
Isabel: That depends.
Oliver: On what?
Isabel: On if I think you used the corporate jet for a weekend of fun with your assistant.
Oliver: Excuse me?
He does his very best to look incredulous at the idea of hooking up with Felicity while on a romantic weekend in Moscow. I really wouldn’t put Russia on my Top 10 list of romantic getaways. Tahiti made a lot more sense, but whatever. The point is – Oliver’s feathers are immediately ruffled. Did I see him blushing? Oliver lies all day every day both professionally and personally, but this line of questioning has him quite tongue tied.
Isabel: A blonde IT girl all of a sudden gets promoted to be assistant to the CEO? There are only two ways that happens. One is nepotism and she doesn’t look like your cousin.
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Source: Paigeota
It absolutely should be happening, Oliver.
Isabel: What were her qualifications aside from an abundance of short skirts?
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Source: Paigeota
This scene is incredibly important because A) it’s hilarious and B) this is the first time Arrow has addressed OUTLOUD Felicity Smoak as a love interest for Oliver Queen. Everything up until now has been gazing, fervent glances, shoulder touches, soft tones, sexual innuendo and the electric chemistry between Stephen Amell and Emily Bett Rickards. But Isabel puts her money on the table and flat out accuses Oliver of sleeping with Felicity.
We, the audience, know Oliver and Felicity are not having sex (much to our horror and disappointment), but Isabel presents the one question we’ve been dying to ask Oliver – does he WANT to sleep with Felicity? And his answer is… glorious.
First he laughs, uncomfortably, like this is the most INSANE line of questioning to ever take place. Keep in mind this man was tortured on Lian Yu for information about bombs, planes, the location of a Chinese archer and Japanese soldiers bones from WWII. But nope, Oliver is shocked – SHOCKED I TELL YOU – that anyone would ever think he’s having sex with Felicity. Methinks he doth protest too much.
But Oliver trips up at the mention of skirts. He stutters his way through defending Felicity. It is damn near gallant of him to argue they are an appropriate length. No ma'am, the skirts are not too short. Not for Oliver Queen!
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We can chalk this up to Oliver being a flesh and blood heterosexual man. The day they stop looking is the day they die. But this is the first time anyone has asked Oliver if he is sexually attracted to Felicity. He blushes, laughs, protests and stammers his way through his answer like a 13 year old boy.
Also, it’s extremely important to remember one episode prior Oliver was rejecting Laurel Lance in her apartment hallway after she tried to kiss him - his primary female love interest. Then the very next episode, the writers are crafting a scene forcing Oliver to address a romantic relationship with Felicity.
Is it a funny scene? Yes, but the real win for Olicity shippers is the question is being ASKED. The answer is even better. Yes, Oliver has noticed the skirts and the spectacular legs that go with them. You don’t say that about a character who is going to remain a platonic, comic relief Girl Wednesday.
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We are so far from done. Diggle infiltrates the Russian prison where Lyla is being held while Oliver and Felicity meet up with Anatoly to purchase a Russian police car as part of their escape plan. Felicity is extremely anxious about Diggle, so Oliver offers her some witty banter and a shoulder touch as reassurance.
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When the Russians try to fleece Oliver he threatens to make their children orphans in Russian.
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It’s all very Bratva Oliver and menacing, but with Felicity he makes a little joke and winks! One could say his demeanor is quite light hearted – dare I say flirting?
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Source: Paigeota
Oliver returns to the hotel and has a drink with Isabel. Bizarrely, he brings up Felicity again – unprompted. He couldn’t wiggle out of this line of questioning fast enough and now he can’t stop bringing it up! Pick a lane, my dude.
Oliver: Does everyone really think that Felicity and I are…
EXPLAIN THE DOT DOT DOT OLIVER! LET'S BE SPECIFIC!
Isabel: No. Just everyone who works at Queen Consolidated.
My kingdom to hang out by the water cooler in that office.
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More with the loud chuckling. Nothing to see here but friendship. Look at all the friendship. Hardy har har.
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Isabel: You don’t seem like the kind of man who has female friends.
That’s the understatement of the century. Putting Oliver’s sexual partners aside for the moment - Felicity is in a unique position. Oliver doesn’t have a lot of friends let alone female friends. Felicity is also the only female in his life who knows he’s the Arrow. Has he told her everything about his past? No, but relax. We’re only on Season 2. 
Oliver has shared quite a lot with Felicity in a relatively short amount of time. He trusts her (as much as he's capable of) and Oliver does not trust easily. Felicity is the only woman Oliver can be completely and authentically himself with. This makes her more than unique – it makes Felicity special. I think Oliver understands that and he approaches their friendship with reverence. He toes a very strict line with Felicity – for a very good reason which he will reveal later on in the episode.
Isabel: Underneath that swagger, I see you pretty clearly. You’re intelligent, driven and lonely.
Isabel reveals she doesn’t buy Oliver’s bad boy routine and instead believes she shares a lot in common with him. We can take this conversation one of two ways – 1) two people connecting over vodka and a shared ability to speak Russian or 2) Oliver is working Isabel to keep the real reason for this trip a secret. Bonus? He gets laid in the process.
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Clearly, I’m going with option 2. He feeds her a line about loneliness in Russian and Isabel practically races Oliver back to the hotel room.
Mercifully, we don’t have to watch them have sex. Oliver is pressed for time because they need to save Diggle, but Isabel is fine with the wham bam thank you ma'am. Oliver thinks he left enough time, but as he opens the door to his hotel there stands Felicity just about to knock.
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Oliver left Isabel undressed and in his bed, but the woman finds her clothes with lightning speed when she hears Felicity at the door and purposefully makes her exit then.
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If Isabel bought Oliver’s “we’re just friends” speech then doing this would not be necessary. Isabel wants Felicity to know they slept together. Regardless of what people at Queen Consolidated think, Isabel knows there’s more going on between them than Oliver will admit. She wants to hurt Felicity. Isabel is marking her territory and I would encourage you to listen to Stephen Amell’s thoughts on why. #Cosigned.
However, this is NOT information Oliver wants Felicity to know. He is so embarrassed he can’t even look at Felicity as Isabel walks out the door.
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Felicity is stunned. She’s actually speechless. Oliver tries to offer up some feeble explanation, but he doesn’t get very far. 
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Felicity immediately makes a joke to alleviate the tension, but as she turns we can see her hurt and anger.
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She cannot fathom a reason why Oliver would sleep with this woman. Whether or not Oliver heard Felicity’s remarks – he grimaces because he knows he screwed up. BIG TIME. It is so awkward and painful.
But again, the viewers must ask a fundamental question – why is this scene being written like Felicity caught Oliver cheating on her? Oliver is single. Isabel is single. Felicity is single. Nobody is dating anybody. And yet, the Arrow writers make it clear Felicity is hurt by this encounter – like she’s been betrayed.
As for Oliver, he absolutely did NOT want Felicity to know he slept with Isabel. He knows it will hurt her. This shows Oliver is somewhat aware Felicity has feelings for him. Congratulations, Oliver you’re not a total pine tree.
What’s more telling is Oliver’s reaction. He acts like Felicity caught him doing something wrong. If he didn’t return Felicity’s feelings then her opinion wouldn’t really matter. It’s never stopped him from dating or sleeping with other women before. And this is just a one night stand. Not even – it was a quickie. But Oliver is ashamed. This makes him look bad. Generally speaking, when you have romantic feelings for someone you don’t want that person to see you hooking up with someone else. It sends a very mixed message.
THIS IS NOT HOW YOU WRITE A PLATONIC COUPLE!!!
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Felicity Smoak wears her heart on her sleeve. She can’t let it go. It’s not just that Oliver slept with someone. It’s that he slept with ISABEL. The woman who is trying to steal his company. Her bitchiness is embedded in her DNA, so Felicity’s work environment probably less than fun. Felicity cannot stand Isabel and Oliver slept with her. HER. 
Felicity: Over 64 million women over the age of consent in Russia and you sleep with her.
But this time it is Oliver’s turn to make a joke to deflect. The entire vibe is couple’s fight.
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Source: Paigeota
But Felicity is not joking when they get home and she’s tired of the mixed messages. So ask the question point blank. God bless her. No sexual innuendos, stammers, deflections, furtive glances or unspoken truths.
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 Source: Paigeota
Oliver’s initial response is kind of flippant to be honest.
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 Source: Paigeota
He gives Felicity a very generic “It just happened,” which is the exact non-explanation cheaters use. Sex doesn’t “just happen.” It’s a decision. Oliver made a choice and Felicity is trying to understand why because maybe if she understands then it will hurt less. Even worse, he says it didn’t mean anything. The problem is it meant something to Felicity. Take it away Willow Rosenberg.
Xander: We were just kissing. It doesn't mean that much.
Willow: No. It just means you'd rather be with someone you hate, than be with me. - BTVS "Innocence"
Truly one of the most devastating lines in television history delivered by an equally heart wrenching performance by Alyson Hannigan. What Felicity is truly asking Oliver is not, “Why her?” but rather, “Why not me?”
Felicity’s disappointment in Oliver’s response is palpable and feels very similar to their scene in 1x12 when she asked Oliver if she could trust him. She didn’t want a flip answer then and she doesn’t want one now.
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Source: Paigeota
Oliver lowers his voice into his gentle Felicity tone and says, “Hey,” so she’ll look at him again. The real intimacy between them is revealed in a single word. He cannot wiggle out of this, so Oliver is approaching her question, and pain, with the reverence she deserves. Felicity closes her eyes for a moment before she meets Oliver’s gaze again, like she’s steeling herself against whatever explanation is coming next. This time the answer will be honest, but it will hurt more.
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Source: Paigeota
Oliver speaks hypothetically of course, in an attempt to discuss what he feels for Felicity without really discussing it. It keeps their friendship in this little protective bubble as Oliver takes an infinitesimally small step over the strict line he has drawn between them. Oliver feels life as The Arrow, and his proximity to danger, prevents him being in a loving relationship. He slept with Isobel because he doesn’t care about her. Oliver won’t be with Felicity because he does care about her.
What is MONUMENTALLY IMPORTANT about this scene is Oliver acknowledges the elephant in the room for the very first time. He feels more than friendship for Felicity.  Does Oliver Queen love Felicity Smoak? Yes. Is he ready to admit that to himself - let alone to her? No. Oliver believes his love endangers Felicity. He cannot lose her, so he will not allow himself to love her. As frustrating as Oliver’s answer is it’s not difficult to understand why he feels this way - especially after losing Tommy.
Felicity gives a little nod like this was the explanation she expected, but still needed to hear. Despite the hypothetical, they both know Oliver is speaking about her. Rather than a meaningful relationship, Oliver has resigned himself to a life of loneliness. He may have hook ups and one night stands to fill his bed and relieve an urge, but he withholds access to his heart. This is not just about Oliver’s refusal to truly love someone. It’s also about his refusal to allow anyone to love him in return.
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He's taken bullets that hurt less than this.
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In the end, it’s Felicity’s response that truly packs the emotional punch. She believes Oliver deserves better, regardless of his way of life. He deserves more than empty affairs and lonely, dark and violent nights.
There is so much this man cannot forgive himself for and the guilt is overwhelming. Oliver believes he has no right to happiness. Loneliness is his penance.  When all you experience is pain and loss it can be difficult to imagine a life without it.
"We accept the love we think we deserve." - Perks of Being a Wallflower
Oliver hurt Felicity deeply by sleeping with Isabel.  They both know it. He continues to hurt her by drawing this line in the sand between them. Yet, in the face of that pain, Felicity dreams a life for Oliver that’s more than the one he’s resigned himself to. It is forgiveness, compassion and unconditional love in action. He does not feel worthy of Felicity Smoak, but those are the lies Oliver’s guilt tells him. She knows the truth.
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Source: Paigeota
The stunned look on his face says it all - no one has ever told Oliver Queen he deserves to be loved. 
John Diggle
Contrary to the previous six pages, this is actually a John Diggle focused episode. And boy, does he drop a bomb on Oliver and Felicity.
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Oliver didn’t immediately recognize Lyla’s name, which is fine because I don’t think they’ve shared a scene. Felicity reminds him Lyla is John’s ARGUS girlfriend and I had whiplash at that status update. Girlfriend? When did we get to girlfriend? I feel more comfortable with super spy sexy time friend.
Diggle lowers the boom. Lyla Michaels is his ex-wife. SAY WHAT??!
Felicity: Explain that sentence.
Honestly, how do Oliver and Felicity not know this yet? What do they talk about in the bunker? It can’t always be about crimes and arrows. Sharing is caring OTA – embrace it.
Diggle: We couldn’t figure out how to stay married without a war to fight.
Diggle and Lyla were married while on tour in Afghanistan, but divorced shortly after returning home. Lyla joined ARGUS and Diggle went back for another tour.
Diggle and Oliver hook up with Anatoly (!!!) and he informs them Lyla was trying to break into the worst prison in Russia on a tip that Deadshot was being held there. Unfortunately, she was captured. It hasn’t been a pleasant stay given how battered Lyla is looking.
The only way in Gulag is to be a prisoner, so Diggle volunteers. Oliver balks at that, but Diggle needs him on the outside make the moves necessary for an escape. Also, Lyla is Diggle’s woman and he's going to save her, damn it. SWOON. Find you a man with a hero's complex. They make divine husbands. I speak from experience.
Anatoly provides enough drugs to land Diggle in prison for 400 years. Oliver and Felicity are nervous about this plan. In one of the sweetest moments between Diggle and Felicity, she gently kisses him on the cheek and wraps his scarf around his neck. It’s a good luck kiss, but everyone is clearly worried it’s a goodbye.
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Of course, once John is inside he runs right into Deadshot. He sure is easy to find for a globetrotting criminal mastermind. Deadshot knows where Lyla is being held and wants in on the escape plan in exchange for her location. After Deadshot kills Anatoly’s guard, John has no choice but to team up with him.
Lyla: You came for me.
Diggle: I always have and I always will.
This is what stellar ships are made of folks. This is the content we're here for.
Of course, Oliver and Felicity rescue Diggle, Lyla and Deadshot, but the pinnacle of the episode for John is when they dump Deadshot on the side of the road. They’ll help him get out of prison, but not out of the country. John holds a gun on him – ready to pull the trigger to avenge his brother’s death, but he can’t do it.
Deadshot: That’s the thing about honor, John. You can’t turn it on and off.
What a great line! I love that line!!! It’s so fully encapsulates John Diggle’s character. I’m sorry I know he’s a killer, but between Deadshot bringing Olicity together with the ridden computer and this moment with John– I’m really starting to like this guy.
Deadshot offers John some additional information about his brother’s death. A thank you for not killing him I guess. He asks John how he thought Andy was killed.
Diggle: You shot at a client that Andy was protecting and you missed.
Deadshot: I don’t miss. Your brother was the contract.
Diggle: Who would want to kill Andy?
Deadshot: I don’t know their names, just an alias. H.I.V.E.
The plot thickens! I’m sure all the comic fans were excited about the introduction of H.I.V.E. I was clueless, but with a quick Google you’ll discover H.I.V.E is a terrorist organization. So, this means one of two things, John’s brother was an honorable man who ticked off a terrorist organization or Andy was not as honorable as his brother and ticked off a terrorist organization. This adds a layer of complexity the Diggle vs. Deadshot storyline desperately needed. It was running a little stale.
Diggle: You know me and Carly broke up because I couldn’t love her and hate him at the same time.
Lyla: I’m honored to be the exception.
Diggle: Lyla, you were always the exception.
Ok, I’m onboard the SS Dyla. Let’s get remarried. I’m ready.  
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We go from the Dyla love scene directly to Olicity’s final scene in the office. This is not a mistake. John guides Oliver on his path. This also includes his romantic life and one of the ways Diggle guides Oliver is by example. Dyla always points the way.
Stray Thoughts
This is the first episode we meet Amanda Waller. She’s loyal to Lyla Michaels and knows about Oliver and Diggle’s vigilante operation, so she’s arriving on the scene as a fully formed bad ass.  
Diggle refused Anatoly’s vodka. Based on the look Oliver gave him I’m guessing that was a very bad idea. Drink the vodka, John.
“I wouldn’t mind a drink.” I mean honestly the boys could be so sexist sometimes. Felicity likes booze too!
“I will take care of her.” Snort. Yeah, I’ll bet Oliver.
Isobel immediately jumps to the conclusion that Felicity is sleeping her way up to the top. Way to be supportive of your fellow female coworkers and fighting that glass ceiling together, Isobel. This just makes her more evil in my opinion.
Sara left town. That’s fine I need a break from the Lance drama.
Quentin lets Roy go because he's working with the Arrow too, so I'm counting Lance as part of the team.
No Laurel. Hallelujah. Did you even notice she was gone? Nope. This character lifts right out.
There’s this whole weird subplot where Moira’s lawyer wants Thea to dump Roy because he’s a felon and it makes Moira look bad. Sure, Roy Harper is the problem. Not the 500 people who died. Even Moira thinks this plot line is ridiculously stupid and gets these crazy kids back together. Can we be done with the Theroy breakups? I’m tired. Find these two an actual storyline.
Slade: I will not be the reason something happens to you.
Shado: When I care about someone there's nothing I won't do for them.
Slade is in rough freaking shape after being burned over half his body, but he gets snuggle time with Shado so it isn’t all bad.
Never trust a Russian woman. Has Oliver ever seen a movie?
Flashback Sara betrays Oliver and gives Ivo the location of Slade, Shado and the soldier bones. Let's go with Stockholm syndrome to explain this insanity. Or she's just completely terrified of Ivo. Either works. But still - dick move Sara.
Why does David Ramsey wear shirts? It’s really a crime against humanity.
Listen to the Watchover podcast reaction to 2x06!!!
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schrijverr · 4 months
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Why Her?
s02e06: Keep Your Enemies Closer. Introspection of why Oliver slept with Isabel brought upon by Felicity asking why he did it.
On AO3.
Ships: pre-slash Olicity
Warnings: implied/referenced dubcon
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“Why her? I mean, besides the obvious leggy model reason,” she asks, the hurt clear in her voice. She can’t understand why he’d sleep with her, this woman who has been mean and rude to not just her, but to Oliver as well.
Oliver gets it. He does. Isabel Rochev is not a nice woman, not even pleasant either. She always has an angle she’s working, a way to use you and discard you after. She doesn’t care, she has a ladder to climb.
Despite what it looks like, Oliver isn’t being an idiot about it. He knows that Felicity thinks it is mostly because of the leggy model reason, but it isn’t. However, he doesn’t know how to explain to her why he did it. Not without revealing pieces of himself that he’d rather keep to himself.
He can’t tell her that Isabel accused him of sleeping with Felicity, of only giving her that promotion because she slept with him. As if Felicity has nothing else to offer, no talents that earned her a promotion. As if she isn’t right there by his side every single night protecting him.
Oliver wanted to protect her from those rumors the second he heard of them, because protecting Felicity has become one of his priorities in a scarily little amount of time.
But he doesn’t think she’d appreciate hearing that sleeping with Isabel would be a way to confirm that he didn’t go on this trip to sleep with Felicity. That it isn’t like that. That Felicity has earned her place there on professional merit.
He has been using his body to protect friends, to protect himself, long before Yao Fei and Slade Wilson taught him how to fight.
When he and Tommy drunkenly kissed at a party and gay rumors starting floating around that might get Tommy into hot water (not to mention Oliver himself), he was on the cover of a gossip rag three days later, plenty of models on his arms. He made sure one of them sold the story afterwards too, performed the hell out of that orgy.
How when old lady Duchard started getting handsy at one of the balls with Max Fuller who was clearly uncomfortable, Oliver turned her into a conquest. It’s not that bad if it’s his own design and she clearly didn’t care who she lured back as long as they were under twenty, but enough of an adult for her to not end up in court.
And when Thea started getting sexualized at the ripe old age of twelve, he punched paparazzi in the face. High publicity and Laurel not finding out about his cheating, because he actually loved her and didn’t want to do that to her. Not yet at least, not then.
Felicity can’t know these things about him. Can’t know that he slept with Isabel to protect her, because using his body is the only way he knows how. He knows what he looks like, he knows he can be charming, it’s just another asset and he’s happy to use it to keep his friends safe.
She’ll probably be upset if she knows. She’ll make him never do that again. But she doesn’t get that he doesn’t mind doing it. For him sex is just like a good work out, or a nice conversation. It’s just an action, nothing special. He enjoys sex the same way he enjoys good food. Not a necessity, but nice to have.
Sleeping with Isabel had never been his plan, but with the information he had, it was the best move to keep Isabel away from Felicity and the situation under control. Oliver likes it when he has a situation under control.
So, he goes with bits from the truth, since he’s always been bad at lying to her, showing her the pieces she expects to prevent her from searching for the pieces he wants to stay hidden. “It just kind of happened. It didn’t mean anything.”
Felicity looks upset by that. He never meant to upset her, he did it to make Isabel stop thinking about her like that. To keep her happy. Of course he failed at that.
“Hey,” he finds himself saying in a soft tone, unable to let it go. More honest than he has ever been with her or himself, he says: “With the life that I lead, I just think that it’s better to not be with someone that I could really care about.”
She looks at him for a moment, then nods, more to herself, before spinning her chair, getting up, circling him.
He stands there for a moment, taking a deep breath as he closes his eyes. The regret washes over him, but he doesn’t call out. Doesn’t set the record straight.
It wasn’t a lie when he said that not being with her was better. He can’t risk having that and messing it up. Despite who he is trying to become, he still carries so much darkness, while she is brightness personified. He doesn’t want to risk holding her when his hands are best at breaking.
Sleeping with Isabel was better. She is hardened to the world and he doesn’t care if he holds her too tight and leaves a few bruises on her hips. Sleeping with Isabel is just an action, sleeping with Felicity will be so much more, and he doesn’t think he can handle that. He is only good at using his body, he isn’t good at the everything else. And Felicity deserves everything else.
So, he lets go off all that regret and tries not to flinch when Felicity says: “Well, I think you deserve better than her.”
Because maybe he does, maybe he doesn’t. Whatever it is, it was the best tactical move at the moment and just because he might deserve better than Isabel, doesn’t mean he’s worthy of someone like Felicity.
All he can do is watch her walk away and wonder: why her? Why did he have to meet someone as incredible as her? And why can’t he hold onto her the way he wants to? Why does he keep messing up when all he wants to do is keep her safe? Why is she the amazing IT specialist that has gotten caught up in all of this? Why not anyone else?
Why her?
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sarah-cam · 2 years
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torn between wanting to see an adorably nervous olicity-esque first date or jump right into sneaky sex-nanigans 🤔
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veroniconique · 1 year
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Love Drug, an Olicity fic
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"The first few weeks on the road, Oliver and Felicity are barely on the road. It can’t be called traveling. They drive, sure, off into the sunset or into the sun depending on the time of day, but they aren’t driving anywhere. They’re changing the location of their continuous sex marathon."
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chenfordsrollisi · 2 years
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New Fics: 11/1/22 - 1/21/23
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ambelle · 2 years
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I think the WA fandom at some point was all about sex scenes too because they were comparing the amount they got with the Olicity fandom. Thing is they may have had more sex scene ms than WA , but their relationship was nowhere near as solid. WA had the childhood friends to lovers trope going for itself. DK IMO is just as solid and they’ve known each other far less.
I do remember that from when I was part of The Flash fandom. The show just never really did sex scenes so it was never something I expected would change. Who knows why they went with the family-friendly tone because other Arrowverse shows sure didn't. It was strange but I did enjoy WA as like a wholesome couple.
Later seasons they barely let them act like a couple any more. Sort of right after they got married everything got oddly distant. I feel like DickKory can be the best of both worlds. Like they'll respect and love each other whether they are friends, being wholesome, or being horny LOL. That's pretty unique if you think about it.
Olicity was definitely a toxic mess. So was Delena on TVD. Chuck/Blaire. I noticed that on the CW. The couples that had the most sex scenes always had the most problems as if the writers were trying to punish the woman or something. IDK big ole side eye to the CW.
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becomingpart2 · 3 months
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why do you think steroline ended up being so much worse than cangel and clois? because I ship Clana and Bangel and I dislike clois and cangel and thought that they were bland and lacking in chemistry and I thought they were better off as friends and trying to push something romantic just didn’t work, but I didn’t HATE them the way I hated steroline. I think it’s because steroline involved so much manipulation and guilt tripping. like first Caroline guilt trips Stefan for moving away to deal with the pain of his brothers death, than he discovers she had a “thing” for him and when he talks to him about it she guilt trips him AGAIN for leaving and implicitly guilt trips him for not returning her feelings. Than her mother gets cancer and dies and during her cancer and after Liz dies everyone is like Stefan you have to reciprocate to make her feel better. Than she turns of her humanity and the narrative seems to blame Stefan because if he reciprocated her feelings she wouldn’t have done it. Than she forces him to turn off his humanity and they have sex under really gross and honestly dubiously consensual circumstances given that she forced him to turn it off. Than they get their humanity back and everyone is shipping steroline. Than finally after a season of guilt tripping and manipulation Stefan says he has feelings for Caroline, but it’s so obvious she’s his second choice after elena. see with clois and cangel i didn’t like the ship and i thought it was obvious that Clark and Angel loved Lana and Buffy more, but i didn’t hate it, it didn’t make me rage. maybe it’s because i found lois and especially Cordelia much more likeable than caroline. honestly if anything steroline reminds me more of Clark/chloe than clois, (and i HATED Clark/chloe) because that relationship did involve Clark being manipulated and guilt tripped over not returning Chloe’s feelings. although if anything steroline is worse because at least Clark/chloe was never taken seriously by the show and never really got together (and honestly Caroline is the Chloe Sullivan of tvd and that is NOT a compliment). so i guess steroline is more like olicity because olicity is like if Clark/chloe became the main ship of the show (not that steroline was ever the main ship, that was always delena from season 4 onwards, but steroline was a major canon ship in the way Clark/chloe never was). although i honestly don’t think even olicity is as bad as steroline because Oliver was far more into felicity than Stefan was into caroline, and far less into laurel than Stefan was into elena (and honestly felicity is nowhere near as bad as caroline TBH). (tbh this is why i found candy’s insistence that Oliver/laurel was the tobin and Oliver/felicity was the Ted/prop and later Ted/tracy ship pretty questionable, because even thought felicity definitely fell for Oliver first I’d say he ended up loving her more than he loved laurel, and i don’t even like felicity or olicity). anyways I’m sorry this got so long, i have a lot of opinions about this lmao.
Hahaha no need to say sorry! I like seeing this comparisons and analysis for why some ships worked better than others and why we hate some more than others LOL
I was trying to find a post I made a while ago where I compared steroline and cangel and explained why cangel didn't bother me as much but I couldn't find it (I'm starting to think maybe I never posted it? who knows lol). But honestly, you summed it up pretty well. The issue with steroline is that it was really forced all the way through it, even in the text lol. Like caroline was really acting like the female version of a nice guy lmao. She was entitled and she blamed stefan for not reciprocating her feelings, for not grieving in a way that was accomodating of her, for not including her and for not reading her mind and realizing she was in love with him LOL
And then what's even funnier is that the text supported her, they really painted stefan as being the one in the wrong. Not saying he didn't act like a dick when he was grieving damon's "death" but come on! And this behaviour coming from caroline is actually a pattern, she used to do the same thing with tyler.
Cangel is more tolerable and even likeable to me because it didn't have any of that. Sure, the chararacters also pushed angel towards cordelia but I'd say that was after angel had already realized he had some feelings for her. Cordelia is also more likeable than caroline to me lmao and the fact that she doesn't spend her time whining and brooding over angel or actively guilt-tripping him into reciprocating her feelings is a big part of that lol.
I also have the impression that both cangel and clois are ships that read more like the classic romcom situation with two adults building a clumsy romance whereas steroline feels like petty high school drama like "i'm gonna make the popular guy fall in love with me" type of shit lol
And yes I agree about olicity even though I never watched that show, that's the impression I get.
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fortressofserenity · 1 year
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She's not me
As I said before about Felicity Smoak, she's not a character who's relatable to other women. Think about this, her job is very white-collar and has married a white-collar hottie herself. That's not to say women can't be rich and marry rich men, but even if they marry rich people not all of them are going to be 10s. Bernard Arnault is the world's richest man, but he's not a particularly handsome man. He's not a sex symbol and neither is Elon Musk.
The men who get paid to be looked at, that is the world of modelling, are handsome but not that well-paid and well-known. So they're not 10s either, so the chances of marrying a billionaire hottie would be really slim. Even most athletes aren't that rich either, some don't even become athletes due to bad experiences with people. So the chances of a Felicity Smoak marrying an Oliver Queen would be really slim.
I actually think most women are more like Cathy, just as most men are Irving in some way or another. They're not particularly very hot, nor are they rich and talented. Or at least nowhere as sexualised as Oliver is in Arrow, which makes Irving a more attainable love interest. Many male models are sexualised, but not a lot of them are particularly rich nor are they well-known. Many athletes are attractive, but they're not too sexualised.
Well not to the same extent as male models get, but many sports fans tend to be straight men so there's no way they'll sexualise athletes. If anything, they might either merely admire them or even identify with them in some way. Comes to think of it this way, many men are like Irving. They are attractive or interesting in some way, but not particularly so sexualised. Irving could be intended to be handsome, though not sexualised for some reason.
But it still makes him more attainable as a love interest than Oliver Queen will ever be, not just statistically but also anecdotally though that could be due to factors that keep the Cathy cartoons nowhere as risque as Arrow got. I can't help but wonder whether if Olicity became such a thing because it's so reminiscent of romance novels, in the sense that Oliver Queen is this brooding super-rich hottie.
Okay not all romance heroes are like this, but the way Oliver Queen is portrayed is romance novel bait. The fact that Oliver is very sexualised, while Irving isn't says a lot about the sort of audience who gets attracted to him. As I said before about Irving and Cathy, their romance tends to be rather grounded because they themselves are rather grounded. They're not rich, talented nor good-looking (or at least sexualised).
They're ordinary people, so their romance is more attainable. Whereas in many romance novels, many (if not all) are predicated on chasing the unattainable. Not all romance novels are like this, but it's not uncommon for them to sexualise rather unattainable men. Especially if they're billionaires, that makes Olicity more potent because it's built on chasing the unattainable. Irving, despite being dark and handsome, is too much of a boy next door to satiate their appetite.
I can imagine some of you liking Felicity Smoak more than Cathy, the titular heroine of the Cathy cartoons. But it doesn't change the fact that Cathy and Irving are more attainable than Felicity and Oliver are, if because many more people are like them in some way. Felicity Smoak isn't an everywoman the way Cathy is, but that's me being more biased towards Cathy. I think what endears me about the Cathy cartoons is how attainable the heroes are.
They're quite ordinary, not too sexualised. They're pretty much the men you actually know in some way or another, whereas with Oliver he's way too sexualised and idealised to be attainable by many cishet women. Likewise not a lot of women are like Felicity, they're more like Cathy in the sense of juggling between family, love, career and trying to look as good as possible.
That's my Cathy bias showing, but you should know how I feel about Arrow based on what little I've watched.
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jbuffyangel · 8 months
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So Many Girlfriends: Arrow 1x17 Review (The Huntress Returns)
We were a little light on Oliver and Felicity content last episode, but “The Huntress Returns” makes up for it. A good deal of the episode is focused on how Oliver feels about Helena and McKenna, but ultimately shines a bright spotlight on how he feels about Felicity.
Let’s dig in...
Olicity, Helena and McKenna
Will Oliver Queen’s real girlfriend please stand up?
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Just kidding. I think too much is made of how many women Oliver dated in Season 1. Technically it was only two… well three but we’ll talk about the third later in the season. This is not an exorbitant about of dating for a single man. That said, we’re juggling three out of the four in “The Huntress Returns” so things feel a bit crowded.
This episode primarily focuses on how Oliver feels about Helena. She’s back after discovering her father cut a deal and will be placed in witness protection for offering evidence against the east coast families. Helena will not allow her father to have any kind of life because for her there is no life after Danny.
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Helena can’t go up against the Starling City Police Department alone and wants Oliver to help kill her father. We get sucked into another “revenge versus justice” argument between the two of them and honestly I am trying hang with my boy here. Oliver believes what he is doing is justice and not revenge, but he is splitting the thinnest of moral hairs.
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I’ve done the mental gymnastics to follow his point in previous reviews, and I won’t repeat myself too much, but every time they argue about this I find myself agreeing with Helena. Oliver is dangerously close to the hypocrite line, but ok sir. You only kill when necessary (although I don’t remember every person crossed off the list being killed in self defense) and only when it serves justice (but Oliver has anointed himself judge, jury and executioner so it’s HIS kind of justice – that doesn’t actually make it justice.)
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Moving on. Helen extorts Oliver into participating by threatening Tommy.
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First, Tommy finds out Oliver is a superhero and then he gets beat up by a girl. This has been an emasculating couple weeks.
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It’s Diggle that asks the all important and completely obvious question.
Diggle: Oliver if you didn’t still have feelings for this girl you would have thought of a different solution than letting her extort you into killing someone.
Oliver: What do you want me to do? You want me to kill her?
Diggle: I think you would have a long time ago if she looked more like me than the T-Mobile girl.
Diggle is never wrong. Exhibit A: the T-Mobile Girl
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Normally John advises Oliver to stay his hand, but he’s worried Helena will drop a dime on both of them. A concern Oliver shares, which is why he hasn’t handed her over to the police.
Oliver does finally admit to his FEELINGS. He’s still holding on to whatever idea of Helena he has in his head. He believes this idealized version is the true version. This is a mistake Oliver makes a lot with women – Moira, Thea, and L*urel. Each of them have faults, some more glaring than others, but he stubbornly ignores them and believes in the Snow White version instead. It’s patronizing and keeps Oliver from seeing the women he loves as human beings – with imperfections just like him.
Oliver keeps telling Helena, “This isn’t you,” when it very clearly is her. Oliver’s hero complex means he believes everyone can be saved, but when a person refuses to change and chooses the darker road again and again, then you must believe them. Saving someone is an illusion. No one can be saved unless they want to be saved. We must all make that choice for ourselves. We must choose our salvation.
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Helena’s return shines a glaring spotlight on how little we know about McKenna after several episodes. Oliver and McKenna haven’t progressed much past a few dates and some lukewarm kisses.
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Arrow ramps up the heat with a love scene, but it feels very perfunctory - like they must have sex to count as a relationship. Something to check off the list before McKenna is shipped off to The Land of Forgotten Characters.
This is exactly what happens when McKenna gets caught between Oliver and Helena's show down. Helena shoots McKenna, which fractures her femur. She is moving to Ocean City to live with her sister and rehab for a year.
Oliver makes a valiant offer to visit and do the long distance thing. He cares for McKenna, but I couldn’t help but feel this offer came from a hefty dose of guilty. Of course, Oliver is going to blame McKenna’s injury on himself.  He even says he’s responsible for her – not that he loves her. McKenna can see that Oliver’s feelings are not long distance level and she dumps him.
And every heartbreak was a yellow brick road Pointing me straight, just taking me home I was never lost I was just passing through I was on my way to you
"On My Way" by Jennifer Lopez
Arrow does not let these failed relationships go to waste. They are pointing us to Oliver’s real destination point. “Return of The Huntress” has a couple of dialogue gems that Olicity vidders have used again and again. More often than not, the writers are not talking about the relationship Oliver is currently in. They are talking about the relationship he is headed towards.
McKenna: The first thing you do is you find yourself someone you never have to apologize to.
It’s interesting that McKenna says this to Oliver right before they make love, but by the end of the episode he is wracked with guilt over her. He actually has to steel himself before going into McKenna’s hospital room because he cannot show what he’s truly feeling. The offer to come to Coast City is one big apology.
This is Arrow’s version of “Love means never having to say you’re sorry” which personally I think is a load of crap.
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If you love someone and you hurt them then acknowledging their pain and apologizing for it is a very important part of forgiveness. You do not get a successful relationship without forgiveness.
I think the sentiment Arrow is trying to communicate is that Oliver needs to find someone who understands who he is and all the various pressures in his life. Someone he doesn’t have to lie to (McKenna/L*urel), but won’t ask him to murder people (Helena). The only woman in Oliver’s life that fits in these categories is Felicity.
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As I said before, this show has the subtly of a jackhammer. Felicity calls as Oliver and McKenna fall into bed together. The camera panning to Felicity’s face on Oliver’s phone while he is having sex with another woman is not accidental. They are very clearly saying which woman Oliver SHOULD be having sex with.
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Oliver leaves McKenna’s bed the minute he finds out Helena has attacked Felicity. This is in my Top Ten if not Top 5 of Oliver rescuing Felicity scenes.
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Source: https://gifyu.com/paigeota
Helena forced Felicity to hack the FBI database for her father’s safe house location.
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Oliver arrives in a panic and calls out for Felicity. He finds her bound and on the floor. It is not often we see the Hood’s feathers ruffled, but they certainly are in this scene.
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Oliver’s voice drops to that soft tone with an “I’m here” and “Hey” as he gently touches Felicity’s face to reassure himself she is okay.
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There are limited circumstances where Oliver allows himself to touch Felicity. He sticks to shoulders for a looooong time, but allows himself something more intimate when Felicity is in danger.
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Source: https://gifyu.com/paigeota
The real tell here is Oliver’s RAGE. He goes absolutely feral when he hears someone entering the office and almost throws a knife at Diggle.
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Source: https://gifyu.com/paigeota
Helena has killed innocent people to get to her father. She knows Oliver’s secret which makes her a dangerous threat to Team Arrow. She subtly threatened Oliver’s family by showing up at the mansion and directly threatened Tommy by almost ripping his arm from the socket. NONE of these actions convince Oliver to kill Helena – until she threatens Felicity. Oliver’s carefully crafted façade which hides the anger simmering underneath is tossed aside immediately. He wants to rip Helena in half with his bare hands.
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Source: https://gifyu.com/paigeota
It’s starting to add up this episode! Helena has been searching for the right pressure point and boy did she find it. Felicity is not just comedic relief. She is not just Oliver’s Girl Friday.  The writers are clearly writing their interactions with romantic undertones and this episode shines a very bright light on where Felicity ranks in Oliver’s life, how much he cares for her, and what he’s willing to do to protect her. Ok sure, Oliver has a lot of “girlfriends,” but there’s only one who truly matters.
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Prepare yourselves. I don’t disagree with this statement.
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Source: https://gifyu.com/paigeota
Happy is not Oliver’s goal right now and I don’t believe he’s anywhere near the vicinity of happiness. If Oliver somehow achieved whatever his current definition of happiness is (which is also in flux) he wouldn’t know what to do with it. Not unlike a dog chasing a car.
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Oliver is trapped in a self fulling prophecy attempting a normal life while living his vigilante life. He laments that marrying the two is impossible because it continually blows up in his face when he tries to merge his love life with his crime fighting.
He couldn’t be honest with McKenna because she’d arrest him. Oliver was honest with Helena, but she desperately needs to be arrested (and requires a good dose of therapy). Whenever the puzzle pieces don’t fit, Oliver throws his hands up in exasperation and says, “SEE? I CAN NEVER BE HAPPY!”
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There is a problem with his math. As Diggle said, it’s about finding the right person. McKenna, Helena, *cough*L*urel*cough* are not the right person, so of course it doesn’t work out. Oliver never really addresses the massive issues with each of these women on an individual level. He sort of just chucks them all into the same love is impossible category.
We know the answer. Hell, I think even Diggle knows the answer at this point. It’s a 5 foot 5 inch blonde ponytail swishing Oliver right in the face. Felicity knows the truth. Not only does she NOT want him arrested, she has joined his criminal enterprise. She is wildly intelligent, beautiful, empathetic, witty and just the right amount of sass and toughness to keep a pain in the ass like Oliver Queen in line. This is the girl you bring home to meet your mother, Oliver.
Just hold her hand my dude!!
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Source: https://gifyu.com/paigeota
But Oliver refuses to allow himself to look at Felicity in that capacity for now, which brings us to the second issue with his math. Oliver doesn’t feel he can be happy. He doesn’t believe he’s worthy of love. He might be chasing after it, feigning some attempt at a normal life, but these relationships blowing up in his face is not completely unwelcomed.
There’s a sense of relief sinking back into the darkness of the bunker. He tried, it failed, and now Oliver can wash his hands of the whole “happiness” thing, which is fine because he doesn’t deserve it anyway.
So, no I don’t believe Oliver’s priority should be happiness right now. He’s nowhere near ready for that. Oliver needs to do an enormous amount of work mentally and emotionally before he is even in the realm of readiness for Felicity Smoak. What he needs desperately right now is a friend who understands him. Of course, Felicity will be the friend Oliver needs because he will never find a life with Felicity without her help.
But bring on all the shoulder touches in the meantime!
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L*urel and Tommy
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Source: https://gifyu.com/paigeota
Soooo Tommy is having some issues with Oliver’s identity.  I always giggle inappropriately when Oliver is so offended by Tommy calling him a murderer. He looks like he wants to say, “Am not! It doesn’t count if they were bad people!”
Tommy is not interested in a morality debate with Oliver because he doesn’t trust him anymore - a consequence from all the lying. We’re already on Team Oliver. We know his reasons for doing this. We watched Robert Queen kill himself. We understand our vigilante’s pain, so it’s natural to get a little defensive of him when Tommy is this unforgiving. 
But Tommy has a right to his anger. Oliver has lied. A LOT. He is a killer. This is a disquieting revelation about the kid you grew up playing t-ball with. Not everyone is as cool with murder as Diggle and Felicity. (Tommy does soften on Oliver a little by the end of the episode.)
It’s not all moral high ground either. Tommy doesn’t say it, but Oliver being the sexy and dangerous vigilante L*urel is obsessed with is not scoring him any best friend points.
Tommy is going through all the feelings this week, which means he’s not the most attentive boyfriend and doesn’t have the emotional bandwidth for the latest Lance drama. L*urel’s mother, the OG Dinah, is in town because she believes Sara is alive. Dun dun duuuunnnn!!
SPOILERS!!!!!!
This storyline just annoys the crap out of me. I hate that they introduce this in Season 1. I don’t know if it’s meant to be a red herring, dangle a hook or just to drive us crazy, but it lessens the emotional impact of Season 2.
The first thing Oliver did when he came back was state definitively that Sara was dead. Dinah's picture of someone who looks like Sara is pretty flimsy evidence to contradict the man who watched her die. It feels like the writers are trying to give L*urel and Detective Lance something to do and bring all the divorce drama with Dinah into the fold. Eh. Keep it.
What annoys me even further is L*urel immediately jumps up Tommy’s ass for being distracted and not fully invested in the dead-sister-is-possibly-but-probably-not-alive drama. Good grief woman. Can the guy have an off week? Calm down.
I’m 50/50 on whether Tommy really wants to tell L*urel  that Oliver is the vigilante. Yes, he wants to tell her because that tea is PIPING HOT and he has to be dying to tell SOMEONE. No, he doesn’t want to tell her because of the previously mentioned sexy leather pants problem. It’s really a toss up at this point.
The problem is Tommy is actually a really decent dude who is terrible at lying and L*urel knows he’s keeping something from her. Thanks a lot Ollie. She throws a hissy about Tommy being “a million miles away” and storms off. The seeds of distrust and disappointment are sewn and we shall wait for the impending jealousy implosion to come.
Stray Thoughts
Oliver and Slade are negotiating a flight off the island. Wake me if it’s not a foregone conclusion this plan fails. The dude was stuck there for five years.
Thea wants to get Roy a job. Nothing says love like gainful employment.
Is date number six significant? What happens on date six? I am old and have not dated for awhile.
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Oliver ordering Felicity out of the room was HOT. He doesn’t want her within fifty feet of Helena. I like it when he’s growly and bossy. Source: https://gifyu.com/paigeota
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Roy gets stabbed saving Thea. She kisses him because he’s scared of needles. First kiss cute factor is off the charts.
 “Why can’t you just admit that you still have feelings for me too?” Does anyone else feel like Oliver had sex with McKenna to prove he doesn’t have feelings for Helena? It felt oddly timed.
Listen to the Watchover podcast reaction to 1x17!!!
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dannykay1996 · 1 year
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My top 10 favorite fictional ships (specifically romantic/headcanons acceptable)
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1. Rick Castle & Kate Beckett (Caskett) [started out platonic, blossomed into a romance]
2. Dr. Gregory House & Dr. James Wilson (Hilson) [same sex couple who met in New Orleans, eventually becoming coworkers and disguising their romance as a friendship]
3. Dr. Tempe “Bones” Brennan & Agent Seeley Booth (B&B) [started as friends, became lovers]
4. Clark Kent/Kal-El/Superman & Lois Lane (Clois) [childhood friends who became colleagues and later romantic partners]
5. Peter Parker/Spider-Man & MJ Watson (PeterMJ) [friends since elementary school, high school classmates, and eventual spouses]
6. Princess/General Leia Organa & Han Solo (Scoundress) [latter rescues former from captivity on the Death Star, leading to commanding positions in the Army of the Rebellion and an eventual marriage]
7. Tony Stark/Iron Man & Virginia “Pepper” Potts (Pepperony) [started as coworkers, became friends, and eventually married]
8. Diana Prince/Wonder Woman & Steve Trevor (WonderTrev) [former rescues latter from plane crash, leading to a wartime partnership and eventual romance]
9. Oliver Queen/Green Arrow & Felicity Smoak (Olicity) [began as friends, slowly becoming romantic partners over time]
10. Bruce Wayne/Batman & Selina Kyle/Catwoman (BatCat) [initially foes of each other, they eventually gained a mutual respect and became friends, eventually becoming husband and wife]
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juliesioux · 5 years
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Chapters: 2/? Fandom: Arrow (TV 2012), olicity - Fandom Rating: Explicit Warnings: Creator Chose Not To Use Archive Warnings Relationships: Oliver Queen/Felicity Smoak Characters: Oliver Queen, Felicity Smoak Additional Tags: olicity - Freeform, Olicity AU spec, soul mates, Time Travel, Deep love, Angst, True Love, Love Summary:
this chapter is from Oliver's POV and is the table setting needed for the rest of the story. This one is moving a little slower on purpose. It is a combination of exploring them as older adults and clearing the way for the ultimate direction I am going in.
There is a reappearance of an character I have utilized from the DC Universe, the Sandman from the Endless (the characters created and written about by Neil Gaiman) and a re-connection to the current show universe. Sleep is a huge thing in this particular part of the story, it is an escape, a refuge and a place where truths are shown. For Oliver, it is where he works through his grief and confusion and he has a bit to process.
This part of the story finds them playful, adjusted, inquisitive, loving and full of the complicated emotions we have grown to love in them both since season 1.
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lyricalarrow · 7 years
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Because it’s even better in reverse... 
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yet-i-remain-quiet · 7 years
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more of this
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Oliver & Felicity • Stripped (18+)
Let me see you stripped down to the bone Let me hear you speaking just for me Let me see you stripped down to the bone Let me hear you crying just for me Let me hear you make decisions Without your television Let me hear you speaking just for me ...
new video ♥
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#just look at those heart eyes
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callistawolf · 7 years
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Bunker!sex, moment by moment
Bonus: 
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