#originally he's not romantically involved with her bUT OK this is a different version of my oc

[cruxxio]

bless all the writers who's been feeding me with theo/yn/mattheo contents I'm craving for more✨(pose ref)

[kohakuxrin]

What Sunrise could have done

According to some interviews, the reason Yashahime was created was because the anime producer Suwa Michihiko demanded a continuation, which was an unreasonable request because after 12 years of various headcanons and fanfics following Inuyasha’s conclusion with the unlikely chance to get a sequel since Takahashi tended to just start a new manga once she concludes one and never made a sequel to any of her other works, it could hardly meet everyone’s general expectations.

However, Sumisawa and the Sunrise staff did not try to think of something that everyone would easily accept like they claimed.

- They knew that the relationship between Sesshomaru and Rin was perceived differently by fans. Rin was fond of Sesshomaru and he cared for her, but it was not necessarily romantic feelings they were displaying and Takahashi never remotely implied in the story that their relationship was or would become romantic whatsoever. And yet they depicted them as a couple and in a controversial way as they seemingly picked the youngest age possible for her in order for her to keep her childish voice tone and for their children to be born before Inuyasha and Kagome’s daughter, which makes it even more awkward. How can we not find this repulsive? Isn’t it obviously awkward to many for an adult and a child whom he looked after and who was obedient to him to become romantically involved? Especially since it was aimed toward a younger audience, it goes without saying: not only it’s immoral to portray an underage-adult relationship as normal and beautiful, it can also be dangerous.

- And after a most satisfying conclusion to the original story, to have Inuyasha and Kagome imprisoned in a secluded place for about 14 years, depriving them of raising their child who is sold off by her teacher to pay off her debt and literally becomes a slave struggling to pay for her freedom, and to waste such an amazing character with a great look and great abilities by treating her as comedic relief and frequently shunting her in favor of Towa and Setsuna, despite the three of them having been framed as a trio… They didn’t think it would be a massive bummer for those who were satisfied with the end of the original story to see the original protagonists who had already gone through a great deal of hardships and their child being trashed like that? It’s obviously necessary for what was last seen in the original work to have lasted for a continuation, as conflict is an important factor for a story to drive it forward, but that doesn’t mean it has to be devastating.

How on earth is that something everyone would be ok with? It’s plain obvious that they simply took the liberty to write something of their own vision, not really taking into consideration the fandom.

So based on what Sunrise and Shiina did (I find Shiina’s version to be better than Sunrise’, especially about the Youreisei (Grim Comet) which was given a better appearance and an origin), all the while using some ideas I came up with, here’s an idea of what they could have done that I believe could have most likely pleased the majority of the fans:

To begin with, it was stated that Inuyasha had concluded with no single thing unanswered, yet: Other than being stated to be 1000 years old and the Bone Eater’s Well having been constructed out of its wood in the first movie, the Sacred Tree of Ages had not been explored and it was not explained why the well connected between two eras.

Therefore, since the Tree of ages was an important element in Inuyasha, especially for being the place where Inuyasha and Kagome first met, I thought of this:

Instead of being daughters of Sesshomaru, Towa and Setsuna are daughters of a female demon who was affiliated with the tree of ages. The twins would be presented as mysterious half-demon twins and together with the daughter of Inuyasha and Kagome who had first met at the tree, they would form a trio of half-demon girls whose parents had a history with the sacred tree of ages, whose origins would be revealed as they venture.

And here’s what I thought so far for the mother of the twins and the sacred tree of ages:

The mother of the twins was a good-hearted demon who, during the Heian era, fought Kirinmaru who had a vile ambition, and defeated him, although he swore to return in around 500 years. (It could be that Kirinmaru wanted to use a chunk of the Youreisei which he had repelled, to activate the windmill of time to take back his daughter Rion which a piece of Youreisei nonetheless took away from him. But he had to fight the mother of the twins who was the guardian of the windmill, and not only was Kirinmaru defeated, but the fragment had lost its power. So Kirinmaru had to wait for the Youreisei to return for the chunk to regain its power)

Not too long after, she met a human male with whom she’d conceive her children, but both would suffer a tragedy leaving the twins orphaned. (It could have been that her pregnancy weakened her, and Zero took the chance to attempt killing her to have out of the way for when Kirinmaru would return. And she succeeded in mortally wounding her, by first killing her husband to render her so angry that she wouldn’t think carefully, although she managed to drive Zero away. She was ready to die and join her lover but eventually struggled to stay alive at least until her daughters were born, and she died after giving birth to them)

Someone placed her daughters in the sacred tree where they remained asleep and didn't age, and would wait for them to reemerge around 500 years later to defeat Kirinmaru again. They were released 15 years prior to Kirinmaru’s return so they'd be old enough to accomplish their duty, and the one who waited for them put the barrier in the forest around the tree and watched over them without letting them know of his presence. (I actually thought of Yotsume, instead of being an enemy, being the one who placed the twins in the tree and watched over them all the while using his illusion techniques to keep them from leaving the forest and not let anyone find them, since he reminds me of the owl in The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time)

The reason why Inuyasha did not age while he was sealed to the tree and why the bone-eater well made from wood of the tree connects to around 500 years later would be explained as the origin of the tree of ages is revealed while the mother of the twins was alive, or the way the twins were placed in the tree to reemerge around 500 years later would be the reason.

  Now, considering how the fans could interpret the future following Inuyasha’s finale for themselves, imagine the various interpretations, especially for the most prominent characters: What if some picture Inuyasha and Kagome having not just one child? What if some picture Miroku and Sango having more children? What if some picture Shippo growing up? What would become of Rin? (I picture her becoming a doctor running a clinic in the village of demon slayers: https://www.tumblr.com/kohakuxrin/647638096456859648/as-i-re-imagined-yashahime-with-towa-and-setsuna?source=share)

So I believe the best option is an adventure without involving the original cast (Inuyasha, Kagome, Miroku, Sango, Shippo, Kirara, Kaede, Sesshomaru, Jaken, Rin, Kohaku, Koga, Ayame, Ginta, Hakkaku, and also Gyokuto, Kin’u and Hisui). It would have most likely been disappointing for many fans not to see what the original cast became, but I believe it is better than being likely upset with how they’d be portrayed.

Only the first episode “Inuyasha Since Then” would feature them as a throwback. I’d add a little scene with Koga, Ayame, Ginta and Hakkaku since they were prominent characters (my idea of a scene would be: some wolves report to Koga that something is going on in Kaede’s village but he assures Ayame that he won’t go for Kagome because he accepted that his responsibility lies in his leadership in the wolf demon tribe, and he thinks “Dog Turd, Kagome is your responsibility, so you’d better assume it well!”)

And as it gave an opportunity for Noriko Hidaka to also return to the cast like all the original cast’s seiyus did in “Inuyasha Since Then”, the spirit of the sacred tree of ages depicted as a sentient being with a mind and will of its own which borrowed the appearance and voice of Kikyo seemed alright to me.

Then the rest of the story would be with only new characters (Towa, Setsuna, Moroha, a substitute leader of the Demon Slayers and some members, Jyubei, Takechiyo, Yawaragi, Yotsume, Four Perils, Riku, Zero, Kirinmaru, Demon Mother and Human Father of the twins...) and some characters from Inuyasha whose involvement would most unlikely upset anyone (if they are well portrayed) would be involved (such as the Higurashi Family, Myoga, Totosai, Hachiemon, Sesshomaru’s mother, Bokuseno, Hosenki II, Master of Potions, Jinenji, Shiori, Royakan, Mimisenri, Nazuna, Sayo, Koharu, Taichi…)

All those who appeared in “Inuyasha Since Then” would not appear again during the Yashahimes’ adventure and whatever became of them would not be revealed, although a reason for the absence of most would be required. It could be that shortly before the trio assembled, Inuyasha and the others had to leave to a faraway place to take care of a situation of which as much help as possible was necessary, which would possibly mean that even Sesshomaru and Koga went along. (That situation could be the Youreisei, because Kirinmaru waited for it to return to have its chunk regain its power, and would not try to repel it again. And they had to be at a specific spot where it would appear, and had to prepare themselves for it). And those who seem not likely to participate in that situation like Kaede would not be seen by not having her village seen/involved.

Moroha was raised by her parents and it would not be said that she is their only child, to leave the possibility that they had more children if some fans prefer.

And as a finale, I though of this: Moroha had received a letter from her parents saying that they dealt with the situation without any casualty, but Towa and Setsuna wouldn’t meet them and return to the Reiwa era together for they’d be faced with making a quick decision of which era they wanted to remain. They say goodbye to Moroha who later sees her parents having made their return (their respective seiyus would speak but their faces would not be shown (like in Pikachu’s vacation: Ash and his friends were not fully seen)). Inuyasha rejoices at eating ramen again while Kagome reads a letter from her family that Moroha brought back. After reading it, Kagome wishes to send them a letter back and Moroha tells her that there is a way. In the present, Towa and Setsuna surprise the Higurashi family with a chest containing a letter from Kagome. They reveal that they discussed with Moroha and thought of having Kagome write a letter and bury it in a chest within the Bone Eater’s well in case they would not meet, which made it as if the well worked one last time, and they waited to reveal what they thought of after unburying it to avoid any disappointment if nothing was found. Kagome’s words moved the family to tears, and much to everyone’s surprise, she also wrote words for Towa and Setsuna, saying that although they didn’t get to meet, there was no hesitation in writing to her adopted nieces with whom her daughter had an adventure and she hopes they are happy to be adopted in her family who preserved the sacred tree of ages of which their mother was affiliated with. Then as Yashahime’s theme goes, both families in both eras celebrate for the Yashahimes at the same time.

[compacflt]

okay so something I love in what you've written is the running thematic element of how the "lack" of a character is treated as its own entity/character, not only with Goose--how he’s the “center of the universe” as you say--but also with Sarah. Idk if I just focused hard on Ice’s childhood/adolescence the entire time reading because I’m obsessed with how you wrote him, but the way there were bits and pieces thrown in about her as the story unfolded (Tom's pot-smoking era, the way they grew up so different but had a similar childhood, the unreturned letters and phone calls--also, Ice seeing Chorus Line on Broadway alone was so silly I loved it. Iceman Kazansky: pilot by day, musical theater fan by night. why was he so interested in fucking Chorus Line of all musicals.) but she never actually made an in-the-flesh appearance makes the entire fic, and Ice’s characterization, so dynamic and moving. Like Ice didn’t grow up as a sad little kid with no siblings and some evil overbearing Admiral father that turned him into a Navy-regulated cog in the machine; he had a sister (and grandmother?? A hipster Woodstock grandma?) who loved or at least cared for him a long long time ago, and her presence left a very visible mark (both emotionally and career-wise) on him no matter how “ice cold” he made himself. And in the very very beginning of WWGATTAI, he and Mav were bro-talking about their families and Ice was all like “grr I might as well not have a sister” because he’s secretly Popeye he was grouchy and young and Sarah had stopped talking to him, but then 9/11 happened and he kept trying to get in touch with her just to make sure she’s okay, and then they finally get to talk at the end of Debriefing and it's like...he's reached the top and he's become the person he's always wanted to become, but he's still the exact same. He wants his sister. He's “The Iceman" and can probably run the Navy on his own, but he’s also just someone’s little brother that used to smoke pot with all the other California hippies. He misses her but he can't talk about it.

Also, you didn't just shoehorn her into the story as a character that would be the Tom Kazansky Version of Carole-and-Goose (or as Ice's wife LMAO) and I loved how you gave her personal depth and a purpose/life outside the story while still adding to Ice's characterization through giving him another person to (a) care too much about and (b) shove into his closet of skeletons because the relationship he has with them is breaking some sort of federal regulation. I hope this all makes sense hahaha, but anyway I loved Sarah and how you treated her. It was so entertaining/heartbreaking to watch Ice wrestle with how the main three people he loves are his communist sister, a male romantic partner who is also a subordinate he bails out of sticky situations constantly, and the son of the man he was involved in the death of. crazy stuff.

ok this is so funny & I love this so much because… it wasn't really how I was thinking about it at the time & I'm so glad it comes across as much warmer than how I originally wrote it... okay like i could explain everything but muh “death of the author”…… eh fuck it okay. I’ll put it under a cut so you can choose not to watch me auto-fellate. another long post, sorry. 

so, on Sarah. 

I should start this post by saying straight off the bat that she’s literally just a self-insert for me, the author, as a leftist who lives in New York and would not give someone like Tom the time of day, so I could feel better morally/ethically about writing Top Gun fanfiction. So, there’s that. But she (just like everyone else in this fic) is just a tool to get across information about Ice and the story as a whole, and there’s a reason she was introduced in chapter one (two if you’re reading on AO3 i guess. no prologue, wtf is up with that AO3 you guys need to fix that). I wanted to convey a shitload of information at the start, especially because I was posting semi-weekly and wanted people to know what they were getting into because it’s a slow burn.

To summarize what happens in chapter one:

Goose is dead. 

Ice and Maverick kill some MiGskyites in addition to killing Goose and it cements some weird fucked-up hyperinterdependent relationship between them. 

No, this does not make them instantly friends. They are still fundamentally different people who dislike each other’s outlook on life.

Ice kills some more Soviets and becomes Maverick’s equal, though still not in rank/honor. 

Ice writes to his sister Sarah, who doesn’t answer. 

Ice hooks up with a girl, but finds that he can’t relate to her as much as he did before the experience of TOPGUN. Also, he can’t relate to women at all.

Ice tries to visit Sarah, and is rejected.

Ice sees A Chorus Line on Broadway by himself.

Ice and Maverick talk to each other as semi-equals, and Ice explains that his sister is a Commie who will never talk to him again. He also explains that he wants to get to the top because he thinks it will make him a good man, or that he can make the Navy better because he himself is a good man. Maverick says, yeah right bozo.

So we’re 5,000 words into a 90,000-word fic and already you know the following:

This entire story and everyone in it revolves around Goose’s death and who gets the blame for Goose’s death. 

Ice and Mav are brought together not because they like each other, but because the experience of killing both their friend and their enemies has made it impossible for anyone else on Earth to understand them to that same extent. From the first word, they're already both so fucked-up it really is each other or nobody.

This is gonna be a sloooow burn.

Ice and Mav might end up as superior and subordinate, but they are fundamentally equal ("you can be my wingman anytime/bullshit you can be mine"), and start out as equals. They are now directly responsible for the same amount of death.

Sarah is Ice’s sister, so Ice is definitely not getting married to a woman in this fic. Good news for everyone scared by the slow burn.

Ice had previously had fun with women, and still wants to marry a woman because it "follows all the rules," but after meeting Maverick/the whole TOPGUN experience he finds them annoying/unrelatable. He can’t relate to women at all and doesn't believe this woman when she tells him she loves him because he himself has never been in love with a woman. He is gay.

Ice sees A Chorus Line on Broadway by himself. He is gay. 

Sarah will not be in this fic, and Ice is a categorically lonely man who is isolated from anyone who could possibly help him talk about how he feels. 

Sarah is a Communist who rejected her military brother, not the other way around, so this is a leftist fic from a leftist perspective, but about conservative men whose conservative personal and political opinions will be repeatedly challenged by the end. This is not a pro-Navy story. 

As a corollary to that, the ship for Ice to “be a good man” has already sailed. He’s gonna try his best to be a good man—emphasis on man—throughout the story, but he’s already failed from the very first line. 

And Ice steadfastly and stubbornly refuses to be honest with us or himself about how he feels about any of the above.

So you basically have everything you need to understand the rest of the story. Now you (reader) and I (author) can meet each other in the middle on equal terms, and the real story can actually finally get started in the next chapter. It’s a lot of information. Which is why it’s not written very well and the pacing is fucked. 

But yeah I just used “Sarah” as an expository tool to help first-time readers understand the political lens of this fic from the get-go, so we don’t have to have a lot of hand-wringing when Ice becomes a war hero of the Persian Gulf War or anything like that (though in my a/n for chapter 5 i did admittedly do some hand-wringing. i gotta delete those a/ns). So, Sarah becomes kind of a weak stand-in for Ice’s political guilt. She’s only mentioned four times besides chapter one, i think—once when Ice is with “Laura” (he is still incredibly guilty about all the people he killed & feels like he let “Sarah” down); once with 9/11 (he still thinks about “Sarah” often enough that she’s the first thing he thinks of when the country has been attacked [still haven't decided if this is the real Sarah though]); once when he’s getting high with Maverick (he is constantly reminded by the brass of the ways in which he is not a good man); and once at the end of “Debriefing,” where they actually get to talk to each other—because he has finally “snapped out of it” and left the Navy.

This fic wasn’t meant to be my sorta-kinda-but-not-really-anti-military soapbox preaching, though, which is why Sarah’s hardly in it at all. It’s a D-plot. Maybe even an E-plot. All in service of the Icemav A-plot. That end scene has a couple different purposes, actually. The second is that Sarah, who at this point is pretty much just a stranger, becomes a receptacle for Ice to prove that he can finally be honest with himself and others about his relationship with Maverick. And…that’s pretty much it. I did do more with her in my Slider one-shot but i honestly dk if that’s getting posted at this point (ITS ROUGH) so im not gonna talk about it now. 

But—that was all Sarah as a symbol, which is very un-fun. Sarah as a character is kind of a blank slate, but how Ice thinks about her/misses her is not, as you said :) I’m wary of posting headcanons that are dependent on my fic, though I do have many, because I feel like that’s not really the point of headcanons… “compacflt!Ice-specific headcanons…” idk that seems a little self-aggrandizing even for me. But, yeah, I guess I would characterize my Ice’s childhood as not greeeaaat, because his dad apparently died in Vietnam when he was like eight and his mom apparently died in a car crash when he was twelve (which is why he’s such a good driver [ch 8 notwithstanding DO NOT DRIVE 120 ON I-5]), but also not, like, abusive or anything. Raised by his grandmother (in the Slider one-shot, which I might as well spoil for you since I’m feeling quite hopeless about it, Slider kinda helps Ice deal with her death in the second year they’re at the Academy together, and it’s how their friendship really starts) who might have been hippy-ish and encouraged him breaking the rules, but also he & his sister were very very impacted by the death of their father at war. This is getting kind of deep into it, and I’m just kinda making it up, but I think there was probably a lot of strife between him and Sarah when he was gearing up to go to the Academy/getting his recommendations etc., like actual arguments and screaming matches—yes, she’s disappointed in him, but more than anything she wants to keep him safe so he doesn’t die like their dad (relevant for ice/rooster later)—and he ended up losing her, so it made a deep, deep impression on how he handles (avoids) confrontation about serious stuff like this when he knows he's gonna lose… my ice has a confrontation issue, obviously. but so does canon. see him "apologizing" to maverick for goose's death in the movie for another example of this. bro is struggling.

But thats just me makin shit up so whatever.

But that’s me just makin shit up so whatever.

[cappymightwrite]

What draws you to incest ?

*sighs* Ok, here we go. I'm a real card carrying Jonsa now aren't I?

Anon, listen. I know this is an anti question that gets bandied about a lot, aimed at provoking, etc, when we all know no Jonsa is out here being all you know what, it really is the incest, and the incest alone, that draws me in. I mean, come on now. Grow up.

If I was "drawn" to incest I'd be a fan of Cersei x Jaime, Lucrezia x Cesare, hell Oedipus x Jocasta etc... but I haven't displayed any interest in them now, have I? So, huh, it can't be that.

Frankly, it's a derivitive question that is really missing the mark. I'm not "drawn" to it, though yeah, it is an unavoidable element of Jonsa. The real question you should be asking though, is what draws GRRM to it? Because he obviously is drawn to it, specifically what is termed the "incest motif" in academic and literary scholarship. That is a far more worthwhile avenue of thinking and questioning, compared with asking me. Luckily for you though anon, I sort of anticipated getting this kind of question so had something in my drafts on standby...

You really don't have to look far, or that deeply, to be hit over the head by the connection between GRRM's literary influences and the incest motif. I mean, let's start with the big cheese himself, Tolkein:

Tolkein + Quenta Silmarillion

We know for definite that GRRM has been influenced by Tolkein, and in The Silmarillion you notably have a case of unintentional incest in Quenta Silmarillion, where Túrin Turambar, under the power of a curse, unwittingly murders his friend, as well as marries and impregnates his sister, Nienor Níniel, who herself had lost her memory due to an enchantment.

Mr Tolkein, "what draws you to incest?"

Old Norse + Völsunga saga

Tolkein, as a professor of Anglo-Saxon, was hugely influenced by Old English and Old Norse literature. The story of the ring Andvaranaut, told in Völsunga saga, is strongly thought to have been a key influence behind The Lord of the Rings. Also featured within this legendary saga is the relationship between the twins Signy and Sigmund — at one point in the saga, Signy tricks her brother into sleeping with her, which produces a son, Sinfjotli, of pure Völsung blood, raised with the singular purpose of enacting vengence.

Anonymous Norse saga writer, "what draws you to incest?"

Medieval Literature as a whole

A lot is made of how "true" to the storied past ASOIAF is, how reflective it is of medieval society (and earlier), its power structures, its ideals and martial values etc. ASOIAF, however, is not attempting historical accuracy, and should not be read as such. Yet it is clearly drawing from a version of the past, as depicted in medieval romances and pre-Christian mythology for instance, as well as dusty tomes on warfare strategy. As noted by Elizabeth Archibald in her article Incest in Medieval Literature and Society (1989):

Of course the Middle Ages inherited and retold a number of incest stories from the classical world. Through Statius they knew Oedipus, through Ovid they knew the stories of Canace, Byblis, Myrrha and Phaedra. All these stories end more or less tragically: the main characters either die or suffer metamorphosis. Medieval readers also knew the classical tradition of incest as a polemical accusation,* for instance the charges against Caligula and Nero. – p. 2

The word "polemic" is connected to controversy, to debate and dispute, therefore these classical texts were exploring the incest motif in order to create discussion on a controversial topic. In a way, your question of "what draws you to incest?" has a whiff of polemical accusation to it, but as I stated, you're missing the bigger question.

Moving back to the Middle Ages, however, it is interesting that we do see a trend of more incest stories appearing within new narratives between the 11th and 13th centuries, according to Archibald:

The texts I am thinking of include the legend of Judas, which makes him commit patricide and then incest before betraying Christ; the legend of Gregorius, product of sibling incest who marries his own mother, but after years of rigorous penance finally becomes a much respected pope; the legend of St Albanus, product of father-daughter incest, who marries his mother, does penance with both his parents but kills them when they relapse into sin, and after further penance dies a holy man; the exemplary stories about women who sleep with their sons, and bear children (whom they sometimes kill), but refuse to confess until the Virgin intervenes to save them; the legends of the incestuous begetting of Roland by Charlemagne and of Mordred by Arthur; and finally the Incestuous Father romances about calumniated wives, which resemble Chaucer's Man of Law's Tale except that the heroine's adventures begin when she runs away from home to escape her father's unwelcome advances. – p. 2

I mean... that last bit sounds eerily quite close to what we have going on with Petyr Baelish and Sansa Stark. But I digress. What I'm trying to say is that from a medieval and classical standpoint... GRRM is not unique in his exploration of the incest motif, far from it.

Sophocles, Ovid, Hartmann von Aue, Thomas Malory, etc., "what draws you to incest?"

Faulkner + The Sound and the Fury, and more!

Moving on to more modern influences though, when talking about the writing ethos at the heart of his work, GRRM has famously quoted William Faulker:

His mantra has always been William Faulkner’s comment in his Nobel prize acceptance speech, that only the “human heart in conflict with itself… is worth writing about”. [source]

I’ve never read any Faulker, so I did just a quick search on “Faulkner and incest” and I pulled up this article on JSTOR, called Faulkner and the Politics of Incest (1998). Apparently, Faulkner explores the incest motif in at least five novels, therefore it was enough of a distinctive theme in his work to warrant academic analysis. In this journal article, Karl F. Zender notes that:

[...] incest for Faulkner always remains tragic [...] – p. 746

Ah, we can see a bit of running theme here, can't we? But obviously, GRRM (one would hope) doesn’t just appreciate Faulkner’s writing for his extensive exploration of incest. This quote possibly sums up the potential artistic crossover between the two:

Beyond each level of achieved empathy in Faulkner's fiction stands a further level of exclusion and marginalization. – pp. 759–60

To me, the above parallels somewhat GRRM’s own interest in outcasts, in personal struggle (which incest also fits into):

I am attracted to bastards, cripples and broken things as is reflected in the book. Outcasts, second-class citizens for whatever reason. There’s more drama in characters like that, more to struggle with. [source]

Interestingly, however, this essay on Faulkner also connects his interest in the incest motif with the romantic poets, such as Percy Bysshe Shelley and Lord Byron:

As Peter Thorslev says in an important study of romantic representations of incest, " [p]arent-child incest is universally condemned in Romantic literature...; sibling incest, on the other hand, is invariably made sympathetic, is sometimes exonerated, and, in Byron's and Shelley's works, is definitely idealized.” – p. 741

Faulkner, "what draws you to incest?" ... I mean, that article gives some good explanations, actually.

Lord Byron, Manfred + The Bride of Abydos

Which brings us onto GRRM interest in the Romantics:

I was always intensely Romantic, even when I was too young to understand what that meant. But Romanticism has its dark side, as any Romantic soon discovers... which is where the melancholy comes in, I suppose. I don't know if this is a matter of artistic influences so much as it is of temperament. But there's always been something in a twilight that moves me, and a sunset speaks to me in a way that no sunrise ever has. [source]

I'm already in the process of writing a long meta about the influence of Lord Byron in ASOIAF, specifically examining this quote by GRRM:

The character I’m probably most like in real life is Samwell Tarly. Good old Sam. And the character I’d want to be? Well who wouldn’t want to be Jon Snow — the brooding, Byronic, romantic hero whom all the girls love. Theon [Greyjoy] is the one I’d fear becoming. Theon wants to be Jon Snow, but he can’t do it. He keeps making the wrong decisions. He keeps giving into his own selfish, worst impulses. [source]

Lord Byron, "what draws you to—", oh, um, right. Nevermind.

I'm not going to repeat myself here, but it's worth noting that there is a clear through line between GRRM and the Romantic writers, besides perhaps melancholic "temperament"... and it's incest.

But look, is choosing to explore the incest motif...well, a choice? Yeah, and an uncomfortable one at that, but it’s obvious that that is what GRRM is doing. I think it’s frankly a bit naive of some people to argue that GRRM would never do Jonsa because it’s pseudo-incest and therefore morally repugnant, no ifs, no buts. I’m sorry, as icky as it may be to our modern eyes, GRRM has set the president for it in his writing with the Targaryens and the Lannister twins.

The difference with them is that they knowingly commit incest, basing it in their own sense of exceptionalism, and there are/will be bad consequences — this arguably parallels the medieval narratives in which incest always ends badly, unless some kind of real penance is involved. For Jon and Sansa, however, the Jonsa argument is that they will choose not to commit incest, despite a confused attraction, and then will be rewarded in the narrative through the parentage reveal, a la Byron’s The Bride of Abydos. The Targaryens and Lannisters, in several ways excluding the incest (geez the amount of times I’ve written incest in this post), are foils for the Starks, and in particular, Jon and Sansa. Exploring the incest motif has been on the cards since the very beginning — just look at that infamous "original" outline — regardless of whether we personally consider that an interesting writing choice, or a morally inexcusable one.

Word of advice, or rather, warning... don't think you can catch me out with these kinds of questions. I have access to a university database, so if I feel like procrastinating my real academic work, I can and will pull out highly researched articles to school you, lmao.

But you know, thanks for the ask anyway, I guess.

[alexiethymia]

A Case Study on Vanitas’ Character: On Vanitas’ Two Conditions

Since they’re animating the What is Love? episode next (episode 7), I couldn’t help but want to talk about that chapter. [spoilers for anime-only watchers!]

Vanitas has two conditions for Jeanne: 

1) She mustn’t drink blood from anyone else but him.

I admit that like Jeanne, it’s easy for me to fall into the trap of thinking Vanitas is a better guy than he is because of certain biases. Let’s admit it, this part was plain blackmail, and yet for some reason, with what we know of Vanitas now, there are also different ways of seeing this scene. 

Vanitas is ‘blackmailing’ Jeanne, but at the same time that blackmail is actually him also offering a solution to Jeanne’s problem. AND YET, HE DOES IT IN SUCH A WAY SO THAT JEANNE NEVER HAS TO FEEL LIKE SHE OWES HIM. More to the point, he does it in such a way to ensure that Jeanne continues hating him. In other words he, in his own twisted way, is doing a nice thing for Jeanne, while ensuring that she never likes him for it. Now I’m not saying it’s a purely altruistic thing, but I still think that Vanitas is drawn to Jeanne because she reminds him of himself back then. If so he knows precisely how to get her to receive help albeit through manipulative means. 

It’s not a purely altruistic thing. He states it so himself, what he gets out of it is the ‘divine feeling’ Jeanne sucking his blood gives to him again purposefully painting himself as a pervert so that Jeanne wouldn’t like him for helping her. But if we are to believe some theories that it’s not actually as enjoyable as he himself paints it out to be (I digress, but I think he’s being honest here. He strikes me as having a bit of a masochistic streak in him) (I digress from my digression, but theory time, what’s his bases of comparison?? Who besides Luna and Jeanne have drunk from him??), then there’s another dimension to his condition of ‘you must drink blood, only from me’. If he’s just in this for the feeling it gives him, then why word the condition that way? He’s never stricken me as possessive of Jeanne despite his words of ‘I want to possess all of you’, and as he’s stated, he doesn’t want Jeanne to love him back. I think this is just another case of his ‘use me’ mindset rearing its head again. He’s said it to Count Orlock, and we know that it started since his time with Dr. Moreau. It is definitely, definitely, unhealthy, and I believe it’s also coupled with his slight suicidal tendencies. If worst comes to worst and Jeanne ends up going out of control and killing him, he seems not to care. 

Going off tangent here, but another one of his contradictions is how ruthless he is at surviving and yet how careless he is with his life, especially when it comes to people caring for him. He’d rather be left in the snow than have Jeanne take care of him as repayment for him protecting her, or when he got angry at Noe for protecting him from Ruthven.

But at his core and as Luna stated, Vanitas is a kind child. It’s developed in an unhealthy way, but he’s quite self-sacrificial. It’s fine for Jeanne to use him so that Jeanne has a focus or outlet. At least when the craving for blood gets to be too much, Jeanne knows there’s someone she can drink from, which helps her so that she doesn’t lose control and lash out against Luca for example. And on Vanitas’ side, it seems like it’s fine for him to be put at risk so other people don’t have to be, and on Jeanne’s part too, it also helps her from further hating herself if she ends up hurting other people. 

In other words, his condition is both a selfish and selfless one, yet he paints it to be blackmail. It’s not an entirely good thing for him to do, because there’s definitely power play involved, but it’s also not as scummy as it is initially presented out to be with what we now know of his past. 

2) For Jeanne to call him by ‘name’. 

There are so many things going on here that I just can’t help but ramble about it. Firstly, I’m really interested in how this’ll be translated in the anime. Did Vanitas say call me by ‘Vanitas’, or call me by ‘my name’? Because if it’s the latter, then couldn’t Vanitas also mean (although not fully consciously) that he wants someone to call him by his true name like Luna did before he inherited the name ‘Vanitas’? (And I will just die if in a future chapter, Jeanne and Noe do end up getting to call him by his original name).  

Second, there are slight parallels and contrasts with this arrangement he has with Jeanne and with the one he had back then with Moreau. Obviously Moreau is trash and took full advantage of ‘No. 69′. He exercised all the power. In this case, Jeanne is hesitant about hurting Vanitas despite how aggravating he is towards her. She doesn’t want to drink his blood at all. Moreau was a human. Jeanne is a vampire, and despite physically being superior towards Vanitas she changes her demand into a plea or request for Vanitas to keep her secret. (And whelp that’s when she sealed her fate, because she apparently triggered Vanitas. Don’t worry though Jeanne, you’ll get your payback soon enough). Vanitas was completely without power before, so faced with a similar situation this time around, I think part of him let the power get to his head, causing him to partly take advantage of Jeanne (he’s a complete sadist AND a masochist). He has complete agency this time around. Sure he’s once again offering himself with the expectation of pain and at the risk of his life, and he’s also doing this for another person, like with Misha, but unlike with Dr. Moreau, the power is on his side this time around. 

Going off tangent, that’s one thing that Vanitas and Jeanne have to work on. Balancing power and agency. I get where Vanitas is coming from, surrounded by vampires as he is, and with his past too, but he has to realize that caring about and loving someone isn’t a matter of power. You don’t lose when you love and care. You don’t surrender power. You don’t have to take away someone’s agency or exercise your own power for you to manage to do good things for the people you care about. He has to manage that balance - likewise with Jeanne, Noe, and Domi as well. 

Going back. Since he has full agency in this case, it’s his decision to offer himself to Jeanne in this way, he doesn’t want to be dehumanized while doing so. He’s had enough trauma about that already. Despite how he words it, it’s actually a somewhat equivalent exchange between Vanitas and Jeanne. He offers her blood as a way for her to keep her sanity, but she can’t be removed from it, she has to look at him properly and consider him a person with full agency and choices, and not just as ‘that human’. 

And looking at their faces - Jeanne’s is an incredulous one as if to say, ‘that’s it?’ It’s both an easy and difficult thing for her to do. Meanwhile, for Vanitas, I’d expected him to look goading, but he just looks patient and soft. At least in this instance, I don’t see it as him forcing Jeanne to do something she doesn’t want to do - just an unexpected moment of wanting to be known and treated as himself. 

LISTEN HE IS FULL OF CONTRADICTIONS OK. We’re led to believe that all of his interactions with Jeanne until the moment he realized he fell in love with her was just him teasing her, but I believe he was already in the process of falling in love with her slowly. I’ll go so far as to say that he was the one who fell in love first, but he just interpreted it as his being ‘excited’ by her. In other words, the words he said (’I love you’) which we thought was a lie was actually the truth, albeit a truth he didn’t realize much later. 

Why do I think so? It’s because he revealed certain moments of vulnerability or sincerity with her or about her without any of the teasing, as represented by the italicized dialogue. It’s the same case for when he said he didn’t want to trod on her foot with Noe, or when he happily grinned and he said forthright Jeanne was the side of her he liked best (or when he promised he’d kill her). 

This is just an example of his contradiction. He never wanted or expected Jeanne to fall in love with him, and sure this could just be his wanting to push boundaries or test limits, being the chaotic person that he is, and yet, wanting to be called by name is a desire to form a genuine connection. 

He could have just remained as ‘that human’ to Jeanne while interacting with her. After all, what could stop him? He also had the first condition in place to make sure they’d continue to interact. And yet, he refused (like how Noe refuses to be ‘that vampire’ to him). 

Like Luna said, as long as he didn’t close his heart, he wouldn’t be alone. Even if Vanitas thinks it burdensome or wants to be ‘free’, it seems that he still does long for connection - romantic, platonic, or otherwise. 

And this is why I ship them, even in this instance so early on in the manga when arguably the dynamic wasn’t at its healthiest. It’s because of their background that draws them to each other and allows them an understanding of one another. It’s because of that desire to know more about each other. It’s because of that genuine care and wanting to form a connection with each other, despite part of them rejecting it because of their issues.

Do I think they’re good for each other? Yes. Admittedly, they have so much to work on, but I believe that they push (Vanitas with regards to Jeanne’s blood addiction, and Jeanne with Vanitas in his moment of vulnerability) because the both of them tend to be self-destructive if left to their own devices. It’s just that their version of care for each other is aggressive. They’ll have to find that balance though eventually. On Vanitas’ part he also has to be inspired by Noe that the kind of salvation a person wants may not be the best possible outcome, especially for those left behind. I’m not sure what Mochizuki sensei’s end message is suppose to be, but death I don’t believe is salvation.   

tldr: Vanitas is a self-sacrificial idiot who longs for connections under layers of self-loathing (but he’s still an asshole), and VaniJeanne is a good ship which had the foundations laid down from the beginning. 

[snarky-art]

Musa and Aisha in their enchantix! I still haven’t figured out how I want the wings to look but that’s ok I think.

Info on their relationship in my version of Winx Club below!

So when Aisha arrives at Alfea in season 2, it’s pretty much the same as in the original show. She doesn’t really know what to do. Anne was the only person her age she had ever really interacted with. The rest of the time she was pretty isolated and surrounded by adults. She has trouble figuring out exactly how to act around the winx and is really scared of messing things up.

Musa is also used to feeling like that. She has a lot of separation anxiety and fear of abandonment which she had manifest in the defense mechanism of not letting people get close so she couldn’t get hurt. She’s gotten better at handling it though ever since joining Alfea and getting a super close knit group of friends. As a result though, she can understand best how Aisha is feeling and is able to help in little ways the others can’t.

Musa does the most to make her feel more comfortable and at ease (the others do too but it just hits a little different coming from someone who really gets it, ya know?) and as a result they become much closer much faster. They find themselves talking more openly about their fears and insecurities and experiences when they’re alone and a they just end up having a really strong bond.
In my version of this, Musa and Riven did get together at the end of season 1, but they breakup around ¾ths of the way through season 2. They realize it just isn’t really healthy for either of them and they both bring out the worst in each other. They both have some insecurities from previous relationships and just their family life in general (Riven’s mom abandoned him, Musa’s mom is dead and her relationship with her father is pretty strained although it does start to get better after the concert episode in season 2), so Musa is the one who ultimately takes the initiative to break it off. They both aren’t happy and Riven takes it especially hard, but Timmy talks some sense into him and he starts working to get better around the end of season 2/beginning of season 3.

Another reason Musa breaks it off is along with realizing how much worse she feels with Riven and along with how much worse she is as a person with him, she has a moment of realization where she just goes “oh, but with Aisha, I DO want to be better, and I trust her so much more completley,, oh no.” and she’s basically like “now we don’t have time to unpack ALL of that right now” but along with ending her relationship being better for both Riven and her, she needs to think some stuff about that over.

Musa is in denial about liking Aisha for a while and tries to stifle it and convince herself it’s nothing or that it’ll go away. This isn’t because she’s having a Gay Panic or something though (in my thing she’s bi and has had partners of other genders before). The panic comes from at this point, Aisha is one of the closest people in her life despite them only knowing each other for about a year and she doesn’t want to ruin something good (cue abandonment issues). Musa handles this physically by being more shy and easily flustered and also by eventually talking to the winx about it. Tecna ties but in my thing, Tecna is borderline Aromantic (demi is what I’m thinking of for her, still haven’t figured it all out though) so she’s not very good at giving advice for it, but she’s happy to listen. Flora gives soft advice and a listening ear, ever the romantic, and Stella is too but she’s much more loud (she also feels bad about trying to hook Musa up with so many dates and her and Riven broke up now that she knows Musa was having a crisis the whole time, granted the date with Jared was a good thing since Jared and Musa became good friends so Stella won’t apologize for that one and Musa decides that’s fair), and Bloom is pretty awkward with relationship stuff so she does the “are ya winning, son?” approach to all of this. Musa appreciates that they’re all trying though, despite the various degrees of success.

Aisha doesn’t really talk to anyone about her feelings for Musa, which she realizes she has shortly after gaining her enchantix. During the first attack on Alfea in the their third year of school, when she sees her enchantix for the first time, and how sure of herself she was about doing what she could to save Galatea’s life and save all the ancient texts and tomes, she’s like “yup that pretty much confirms everything for me.”

In my version Aisha is a lesbian and she’s known for a WHILE. Anne was her first crush and she also liked some of the princesses and nobles that she would meet or see at the many fancy diplomatic meetings she would be dragged to. She’s very secure in her sexuality and romantic attraction (homophobia isn’t really a Thing in my version per se, but there are some concerns about lineage in upper circles for royalty and leaders, since not all queer couples can have children biologically and sometimes adoption is hard depending on the circumstances, ESPECIALLY if there is a form of magic that is needed to be transferred from one member of a family to the next member and it isn’t a guarantee or even possible for some magic to latch onto someone and become apart of their core if they aren’t biologically related). Aisha hadn’t mentioned it to her parents though. Her parents and her don’t have the most open relationship due to the very controlling and stifling nature of both the court her parents rule over and just their general demeanor which leads to the next issue: arranged marriage on Andros, which is something her parents still partake in, and that really makes both Musa and Aisha feel like their hearts are being grabbed and twisted. Once they tell her, she’s about to tell them but they leave soon after telling her because they have stuff to do and also they would rather speak to Aisha once she’s “calmed down some.” The next time she has time to tell them, shit with Valtor starts to hit the fan and it gets put on the backburner.

By the time Nabu shows up, it’s pretty rough. Once Aisha realizes who he is she’s mad because of course she is, this is the person she’s expecting to be with. Nabu is understanding of this, and gets it completely, especially since he originally lied about his identity. Aisha does take a breather though and they talk it out some. He wanted to see who he was arranged to marry like in the show, and Aisha says she honestly never wanted to see him, and he laughs and says that’s fair. They do end up having a “best bros” dynamic though eventually. AIsha tells him about Musa, and he says he’s so sorry about this whole thing and eventually they do meet up with their parents like in the show and they talk to them about everything finally and their parents tell them that the arranged marriage isn’t necessary in the end. It works out and Aisha and Nabu do a sickass secret handshake they made and all is well. The relationship between their kingdoms is also really strong regardless of marriage too due to their eventual life long friendship.

Aisha also eventually talks to Flora some about how she should go about asking Musa out and about whether or not she thinks it would be a good idea and Flora and Chatta (ESPECIALLY CHATTA) are doing EVERYTHING they can to not blurt out that Musa hasn’t been able to shut up about liking Aisha for over a year and a half at this point. 

Over the season their relationship continues to get stronger. 

TW: talk of e*ting disorder. Please skip this paragraph if that is triggering to you. I will have the next paragraph start with -paragraph over- so skip to that if you would like

I also have a thing in my version where Musa struggles with an e*ting disorder some just do to anxiety and insecurities and that was one of the ways those things ended up manifesting (that’s how it was for me and I’ve put a little bit of myself into each of these gals and pal (Tecna is nonbinary in my version and although they’re fine with being perceived as a woman and is cool with she/her pronouns and general slang terms like “gal,” “dude,” “bro,” etc., they still prefer overall being acknowledged as a nonbinary person by people who don’t know them very well (all pronouns are cool with them also. This stuff I just mentioned is how I am as a nonbinary person and I thought it fit Tecna too). This is why I have her looking a little thinner in my earlier sketches, since those take place in season 1 and 2. Aisha goes out of her way to help her however she can and Musa feels guilty but eventually Aisha just tells her to accept the help because she cares about her, she knows that Musa wants to get better (she started wanting to really work to stop skipping meals in the middle of season 2 and being less afraid of putting on weight. Her relationship with Riven wasn’t helping her mental state and this was around the point where she realized things probably weren’t going to get better unless she worked really hard on both herself and with setting better boundaries. Aisha was the only one to know about her skipping meals more than was healthy as it ended up coming out on one of their many late night heart to heart convos they like to have) and because it isn’t taking a toll on her mental health, and she promises to let her know if it does (Aisha also learned more about healthy boundaries during her time with the winx way to go, queen). They do meal preps together, get a healthy workout routine that doesn’t involve Musa dropping dead from exhaustion every time, and they get help pamphlets and Musa ends up seeing a counselor on campus to get some help and by the middle of season 3, things are a lot better, and while it’s still something that Musa is going to struggle with off and on during her life because that’s how this stuff tends to work, she has the tools to help herself better and she also has a really good support system and knows therapy is still an option if she needs it after her time at Alfea. The rest of the winx find out eventually too and are, of course, super supportive and proud of her.

-end paragraph-

The main takeaway from that paragraph is that Aisha and Musa are very close and supportive of each other and that I mention Tecna is nonbinary (all pronouns acceptable, although tends to prefer they/them)

Along with that being yet another huge thing that relates to them wanting to help each other grow and become better people, they just end up realizing that if they could choose a day where they could choose anyone to spend time with for the whole time, it would be each other.

By the end of their third year at alfea/the movie (unsure which yet exactly, but it’s in that time frame) they get together and they stay together for the rest of everything:)

[dropoutparty]

ngc ramblings part 3- chapter 5

here we are at part 3!!! sorry this one took so long, i originally was gonna make this post include entropy and extus (along with finally talking about face in depth) but it was so fuckin long that im splitting it into 2 different posts! the next part isnt done yet but im like almost halfway done so it shouldnt be too much longer until its out! also before we get into this one:

tw for: death, animal death, and suicide. pls take care of urself and don't read this if those things are triggering for u <3

ok lets get on with the post

at the start of entropy zach doesnt waste any time getting right to the point. this place is bigger than the other planets so far, and zach says the music this time around is a melody that “started out normal but then got distorted” played by a violin sounding instrument. even tho i do sometimes forget that this is supposed to be a creepypasta im not surprised that he said it made him feel depressed and unnerved lmao. anyways, this planet has all new level types in it!! no reused ones!! ok now this is epic. the bosses this time around are megalon, battra, and mechagodzilla, but itll be a good while before we get to those guys because this chapter is long as hell holy shit?? buckle up babez <33 now, before i get into the meat of things as usual im gonna talk abt the planet name! entropy basically means “a lack of order/predictability or a gradual decline into disorder” and that's very accurate to this part of the story. at this point, red is pissed off and is getting desperate, which means from here on out things are going to be getting more intense and more unstable. this world is the turning point in the overall story, basically.

now with that out of the way, zach first goes to the worlds quiz level as usual! this time something was different. usually, in the quiz levels there would be goofy ass music playin in the bg (specifically the GH1D0RA cheat music, if you wanna like listen to it ig?) but from here on out its been replaced by the music from the games password screen, which zach called creepy earlier on in the pasta. im gonna glaze over the quiz again this time, but when we get to the next planet ill talk about all of the quizzes in depth all at once. basically all you need to know for now abt what happens here is face asks “do you like mothra?” and when zach picks no (after going on a tangent abt how mothra sucks lmao,, bro i swear im good at the game my controllers just messed up /s), face enters bastard mode and goes “TOO BAD!” and boom now zach cant play as anyone but mothra. zach is pissed for now but little does he know this is just going to become an even more epic gamer bc of this,, youll never get better at something if you never try and all that.

after that, zach moves on to the first level type- the forest. immediately zach gets an eerie feeling from this level bc he has some kinda fear involving forests at night (i can think of a reason why but ill have to talk abt that later just to be sure). hes also not feelin great about being forced to play as mothra, so the pressure of it all is def starting to get to him by now. the music in the forest is woodwinds followed by slow, rhythmic drums and chiming bells. must have been some ominous woodwinds and bells bc it made him feel like he was intruding somewhere he shouldnt be (oh rlly?? u dont say,, everything up until now has been fine /s). getting into the level itself, eventually zach comes across some weird deer-like monsters just vibing and scares them away when he gets close. later in the level he finds more of these weird deer along with a sloth-like creature on some of the trees and some raptor dudes killing some of the deer. zach shoots one of the raptors but thats about it. nothing really happened in this level but zach noted that he didnt feel like he was playing a video game, but instead it felt more like he was exploring a forest in another dimension. thats interesting for reasons ill ~get to later~ (yall must be so tired of hearing that by now omg,, i know im tired of saying it at least. i was gonna wait until after replay to talk about things but i severely underestimated how long this whole project would be, so i might make a post for the “more on that later” stuff before i get into replay. let me know what u think i should do).

anyways, the next thing zach checks out is the first tv screen level so far. these levels just play an animation with some music in the background, and theres a different animation per level. this time around the animation is of a kid with a beaver(?) head licking a lollipop and the music is the GH1D0RA music that the quiz levels used to use. the only thing of note here is that zach says he had a shirt that looked just like that when he was a kid. after that, were off to some of the weirdest fuckin levels in this whole thing imo- the hourglass levels. these levels have an entirely brown color palette, with grandfather clocks standing in the background (the level appears to be in like a hallway or something) and various time measuring things floating in the air. the music is the same as the board (ig cosby just didnt feel like thinking of what theme this place would have lol). after a little bit zach was rlly happy to see actual enemies from the normal game show up! these are basically like aircraft, tanks, etc. thats not the main attraction here tho, bc this level has its own unique mechanic! this mechanic is the colored hourglass items you can pick up. there are three of them, a blue one that slows time down and makes enemies from the past appear, a red one that speeds up time and makes enemies from the future appear, and a green one that made the time flow normally and spawned enemies from the normal game. zach found the blue one first, which caused a bunch of prehistoric enemies based on real animals to show up. after that he found a green one and fought normal enemies again, and then he found a red hourglass. the future enemies here look like aliens to me, and zach says that one enemy reminds him of something he saw in a book once. eventually, a special future creature showed up and zach was suddenly in a boss battle! or a mini boss battle? that description is probably more accurate. this guy doesnt have a face, and he can only attack by shooting a beam from his face, it sure does look cool! after zach beat it tho, he was off to the next level type, which is basically a toxic waste dump.

zach called it grungy and inhospitable, with the music being a synth ambient loop that made him feel dizzy while he listened to it. this is important because this is the first instance of the game making zach feel something *physically*, not just psychologically. all of the enemies here are mutated to some degree, with him first seeing green mummies with bird skulls coming out from vats of toxic slutch and a brownish cow skeleton monster with spider legs. later zach comes across a deer from the woods, drinking some toxic slutch (delinchous). zach got close to it to try making it stopped but suddenly some enemies came out of nowhere and scared it into running right off a ledge and into the slutch. rip :pensive:. after that zach found more mutated enemies (i.e some things with tentacles and some other deformed thing with human teeth) before he finally gets to the end of the level, where theres another miniboss waiting for him!! this ones a toxic sludge monster with a whale skull who attacks with a mouth projectile and by charging into you. the monster sank into the slutch and thats all for this level babeyy!

the next level is another forest, but this time its winter! its still at night, but this time zach doesnt feel off put, which he mostly attributes to the music. he describes it as a gentle, calm song that almost sounded romantic. the entire first segment of this level had no enemies in it, but dw this level is interesting i swear. the next segment starts out just as empty as the last one, but this time its silent. that is, until the music from “unforgiving cold” starts playing. yaa you remember that place!! i think i said it was less interesting than i remembered but its interesting again now bc it was foreshadowing these levels!! anyways soon after the music started up, zach started to come across tons of frozen bodies of the deer from earlier. some were mutilated, some werent, but they were all frozen and covered in snow. eventually zach does come across something living though, a sloth creature from earlier! its just vibing when suddenly the winter versions of the raptors from earlier rush in and fuckin obliterate the sloth thing. those things just blindly try killing everything in sight, and even start fighting themselves before zach finally gets to the last part of the level.

now this is where shit starts to get crayzay. this part opens up to a big empty field with a full moon and the nice music from earlier back. despite the nice music tho, zach immediately starts feeling dread and eventually he finds a lake. the lake comes down from the sky and starts to crack like an egg, a humanoid figure curled up in the fetus position dropping into the lake below and the moon halves disintegrated. this spawned the moon beast, the hardest challenge zachs had to deal with so far. after he finally defeats it, the screen goes to black and the name “melissa” is on screen, written in red. after that, the screen then says kys. the word kill then fills up the screen, layering over itself until it forms a picture of reds face. its now that we finally get to hear abt the whole melissa thing (which makes it sound like shes been mentioned in the pasta before this but thats not what i mean lmao). to summarize, zach had a middle school gf named melissa (also bro middle school?? wadda hell) who often went into “episodes” where she would stare off, expressionless, before trembling and putting her face in her hands. she and zach hung out in a field at night a lot but one night she just stared at the moon the whole time before running into traffic and dying.

NOW its finally later!!! were not done with entropy yet, but this is the end of part one of entropy so i wanna just take a little break to talk about things so far. this planet is FULL of symbolism and foreshadowing. to start off, i think a lot of the questions face asks at the beginning foreshadow things that happen. some examples are “is time slipping though your fingers?” which could allude to the time levels, “do you have any regrets?” which i think obviously foreshadows the whole melissa thing, “is it safe to go out at night?” and “do you find it hard to sleep at night?” both follow the same kinda theme, which i think relates to how the melissa incident happened at night, specifically out at night. i dont think the forest levels have anything too important in them, other than to introduce the presence of an innocent, harmless creature that doesnt deserve what happens to it later (aka the deer things) which might symbolize melissa. more evidence for this symbolizing melissa comes from the encounter with the deer in the toxic dump and the winter forest, where in the former zach tries to stop it from hurting itself but is too late, being forced to watch it die, and in the latter the same innocent thing from earlier is found dead close to where the real incident took place. the two big themes to keep in mind here are death and time, more specifically the past. most of the enemies here are either made from bones or kill other enemies, there's a dedicated time level referencing things that zach remembers seeing at one point (aka that one alien zach recognized), the beaver head had the same shirt as child zach did, it all connects to zachs past and the death of melissa. as for the moon beast, its the most obvious reference for reasons ive already explained. i dont really know what the moon cracking open and dropping a curled up human into the lake could mean other than some other thing melissa related, but i *do* think that the fact that the moon beast is the most difficult thing zach has faced so far is symbolic of the fact that the trauma from this event has followed him throughout his entire life, and its something he struggles with daily. it could even be the reason why he said no when face asked if he could sleep easily at night. the moon beast also has some black fur around its neck, which i think is meant to represent a tire track, referencing and/or mocking the way melissa died.

its so cool how this entire part of the story builds up to and foreshadows the bomb it drops at the end of the part, giving people something to look back on. a lot of ppl say that as soon as the melissa stuff gets introduced the story goes down in quality, and i do somewhat agree with that sentiment, especially if they want the story to actually be scary, but i think the direction the story goes from this point on is so unique and cool. it does follow the whole “theres a ghost in the game” troupe (even tho it was probably seen as a spin on that originally) but it doesnt do the same cliches as so many other gaming creepypastas do and it really takes the concept and makes it its own. i just think its neat,,,

anyways im done gushing abt this story, lets get on with part 2 of extus!! basically zach has a fuckin panic attack and, after taking a few minutes to calm himself down when its over, he decides that he has to finish the game now because if he doesnt its just going to haunt him for the rest of his life. zach has now realized that the game is “alive” and can somehow see his thoughts and memories, so understandably hes pretty freaked out by it at this point. when he keeps playing, the first thing he does is check out another tv screen level. this time, the animation is of a fish dude just kinda standing there with his mouth flapping open and closed and the music is the neptune board music from the original game. the only reason i can think of for why this is here is maybe the game is mocking zach for the panic attack he just had (bc when u have a panic attack you feel like you can barely breathe, if ur lucky enough to have never had one before and u dont know) but thats abt it. its probably just a random goofy thing cosby threw in there.

anyways, the next actual level is the first labyrinth level. this time around, its a gold labyrinth specifically. the music in these levels is a slow, ominous drum beat with female vocals occasionally coming in and (basically from here on out) the monster zach plays as is now half the size it used to be. i think this shows how zachs feeling at this point, like this whole thing isnt just being a big strong monster and beating up enemies any more, he feels small and scared and helpless in the face of something potentially dangerous that he doesnt understand maybe his confusion about the game is the reason *why* theres so many labyrinth levels here in the first place. anyways im getting ahead of myself. personally, i think the aesthetic of the gold labyrinth is very similar to the green temples back on trance. while trance had a more circular and soft theme to it's architecture and sculpture, entropys is much more square or rectangle oriented. despite this, i think that the golden mazes at least are another religious kind of building, and the architecture is just different because theyre two different cultures who just happen to worship the same spiritual figure (aka melissa. did i say that earlier? i think i did,, if i didnt well the religions worship melissa, not knowing she's a dead human or anything. probably).

moving on, zach notes how the gold labyrinth would probably have been impossible to navigate as any of the other monsters, so turns out face being an asshole was a blessing in disguise after all huh? anyways this place is full of weird gold monsters, lava/fire traps, and stone faces (both in more of an easter island head style and in the regular feminine headshot weve seen so far). zach comes across two feminine heads, one that is more adult looking and pure gold, and another one that looks much younger and whos eyes have red irises and blue scleras. this statue apparently looks a lot like melissa did on the night she died, so zach leaves it pretty quickly. i *think* this is the first time we see the color blue associated with melissa? if it isnt sorry abt that, its been a couple days since i worked on ngcr so ive forgotten some of the smaller or more subtle things by now. GOD i keep getting side tracked ANYWAYS eventually zach finds a non-gold enemy and sees it get picked up by like an arcade crane claw. hes curious so he follows the claw, only to see the monster be put in a big gold cauldron and walk out the side of it as a gold monster.

gonna be honest, no idea what the hell this could mean. like? theres been no themes of corruption or good things becoming evil so far so this just kinda. exists,, yea idk lol. im not part of like any discord servers or anything so all this theorizing and analysis has just been me, maybe getting some small ideas from like random youtube comments or something, so if something ive said so far has been unanimously disagreed with somewhere i dont know about it. thats also why this isnt really a definitive or comprehensive analysis (even tho im trying to be as comprehensive as i can).

anyways zach finds the exit soon after and hes on to the next level type (there's so fucking many of them ik dont worry weve almost gotten to all of them now), the indigo cliffs. the background of these levels is similar to the blue mountains from trance, but now the moon and clouds from the toxic dump background is also here (and colored indigo to match). the music here is just a deep rumbling noise. the first “enemies” he sees here are just a bunch of multicolored little guys coming out of a hole in the ground and jumping off a cliff. were continuing the death theme yall!! anyways zach continues, flying over some more weird creatures (tho some of them just look like dinosaurs lol) before he sees a bunch more of the multicolored guys out and about but this time theyre getting grabbed by birds!! wadda heel!!! zach comments on how the multicolored dudes seem eager to die and thinks maybe the moon has something to do with it (like melissa dude wat!!!! that's crazy /s). at the end of the level there were some more multicolored dudes just walking into a creatures mouth so zach attacked the thing and killed it and the levels over yay!

now its time for the bosses babeyy!!! first zach fights battra (basically an evil moth kaiju), the music is varans theme. battra starts off in his larvae form, where he basically just fought by running into you and shooting stuff at you. while fighting this form, zach noticed that the game buffed mothra because his gamer skillz were too cringe lmaoo. he beats the larvae form and battra goes into his second form, where hes basically a stronger clone of mothra (misogyny). zach fights battra and has fun doing it (for once,, good for him) and he wins yay! next hes fighting megalon (a big beetle/bug kaiju), whos music was gigans theme. im tired when im writing this so ill just give you zachs description of how he fought: “strong, persistent, but dumb”. after this, zach checks out the last tv screen of entropy. this time, it shows a big buff guy with a sack over his head hit a womans head with a sledgehammer while shes tied to a table or something. the music for it was the password theme. i think this is probably here because red is getting angrier? like this guy is still here after i triggered his ptsd?? what the hell!!!

anyways before we get to the last boss we have one last level type to get through- the shadow labyrinth. at this point, zach starts to feel drained because no shit sherlock you just had a panic attack and youve been playing this game for fuckin several hours at this point of course youre fuckin drained. anyways zach enters the shadow labyrinth, which is a black recolor of the gold labyrinth. the music is “evil ambience” similar to unforgiving colds music but distinctly different apparently. there werent any enemies so zach just kinda wandered for a while until the lights turned off, darkening the whole screen and (secretly) spawning tons of spooky enemies thatll chase and hit mothra in the dark. eventually the lights came back on and zach started scrambling to the exit. when the lights turned back off, zach was able to find one of the melissa looking statues and stood next to it. it warded off the monsters while the lights were off, so zach was safe. i think this shows 2 things: 1) its a little more validation for my “religion in this world worships melissa” theory and 2) it foreshadows the way melissa wants to protect zach at the end of the game. zach beat the shadow labyrinth a lot faster than the gold one so were done with all the stages now!! now theres only the last boss and red and were done with entropy!

the last boss is mechagodzilla, but when zach starts the level, normal godzilla is there instead!! its whatever tho bc soon the disguise is gone and its just pretty much the normal mechagodzilla fight (but now hes got a gay beam). at about half health tho, mechagodzillas sprite breaks into pieces like gezoras did way back on earth and reforms into not-mechagodzilla. even tho it looks uncanny (and the usage of the face statue on the front is probably there to further mock zach bc melissa) zach beats it p easily and now its time for the chase. ba dum ba dum thats the sound of a chase.

as usual tho, before i get to the red chase its time to talk about entropy as a planet!! i think the best way to describe the layout is “a big forest with a toxic waste dump in it takes up half the planet while the other half is a large religious temple/labyrinth with a dangerous underbelly”. there doesnt seem to be any intelligent life there now (its all dead by now probably) but there was at some point at least because imean the huge labyrinth is there dude!!! i dont have much to say for this section tbh bc i feel like i've already said everything i wanted to, so its time for the chase ig!!

basically the chase with red here takes place in a labyrinth level bc of course it does. this labyrinth, however, seems to be made of some kind of organic matter. is it flesh? organs? nondescript viscera? idk but it's pulsating and bloody. also this time red has wings too!! anyways, basically zach avoids red throughout the maze, red breaks through one of the walls with his big alien tongue, and zach gets to the end of the maze. nothing crazy happens at the end of this chapter (i think it was crazy enough as is) so thats the end of that and now its time for the penultimate planet- extus.

[youngbugandtonystank]

how would you rewrite spideychelle in ffh and/or hoco?

I’ll answer this one with this ask:

I was reading your answers and... why is zendaya not mary jane w?? when you said it i never really thought about this because i was more excited about infinity war and the avengers but now... its the last spiderman movie and we know nothing about her character? i thought she was supposed to be something new and big like z said? whats going on??? 

Well, first of all, I would give Zendaya the original title of Mary-Jane Watson, I still believe it was racist not to give her this position. From what I understand, there was a rumor going around (2016) that the reason they didn’t give her the MJ title is because Stan Lee had it contracted that they couldn't race swap Mary Jane or Peter Parker, so they changed her name to Michelle Jones and made a different character while treating her as their version of what is supposed to be a homage to the comic character. The thing is, Marvel fought Sony really hard to get Peter into the MCU (in their own terms), so why not offer the lead lady the same treatment? I’m pretty sure they would do it for Gwyneth or Elizabeth Olsen. Also, the rumor doesn’t make sense because Stan Lee himself said this about the situation: ‘If she is as good an actress as I hear she is, I think it’ll be absolutely wonderful’

Gwyneth Paltrow is Pepper Potts and her character is called Pepper Potts. Scarlett Johansson is Natasha Romanoff and she’s called Natasha or Black Widow. Natalie Portman is Jane Foster and the character is called Jane Foster. Why change Zendaya’s character? 

‘She's not Mary Jane Watson. She never was Mary Jane Watson. She was always this new high school character, Michelle, who we know there's an 'M' in Michelle and an 'M' in Mary.’ - Kevin Feige.

‘She’s not Mary Jane, she’s this weird girl.’ - Tom Holland. 

In every interview, I feel second-hand embarrassment for her when the interviewers ask about character development for Michelle and she has to make mental gymnastics to answer and every time the convo comes back to romance and Peter; how Peter makes her feel, how she behaves around Peter, how Peter’s life is, how her character revolves around him. Even if Zendaya wanted to play the ‘I’m not like the other girls’ quirky loner girl, she could’ve been Mary Jane with that personality too. And what I’m going to share next is just my opinion and nothing is confirmed (just making sure because some people lack common sense lmao) I believe they fooled Zendaya and told her she created this original revolutionary character for girls, where Zendaya in almost all interviews states that ‘it’s ok to be weird, to not be like the other people and it’s fine to be’ etc, etc. But the thing is, that individualism and character traits she’s putting into the character don’t really matter because her character was treated as a love interest only. She couldn’t explore that individual part of her character because she’s written as ‘Peter’s observant’ friend and that is not a trait. Look at what they actually made her believe:

"My character is not romantic," Zendaya replied when asked if she would romance Peter on-screen. "My character is, like, very dry. Awkward. Intellectual. And because she's so smart, she just feels like she doesn't need to talk to people."

"I was lucky because they already kind of wanted to re-create the character and turn her into a new version of what I think maybe the original Mary Jane character represented, and just do it in our own way in this Marvel Cinematic Universe." - Zendaya. (Well, the MCU also has their own version of Peter Parker and they don’t call him Perkin Park; a homage to Peter Parker lmaoooo)

She went there thinking she would have a badass intellectual female character only to end up being the love interest without background, development or storyline. Let’s for a moment compare her to one of the extra characters, like Betty (no offence lmao) or some other decathlon kid; what’s the real difference between her and them? An intellectual is a person who engages in critical thinking; Betty and the other kids are like that too given the kind of school they attend. Awkward? All kids are like that. Smart? lmaooo same as before, they’re in a school full of smart people. She knew Peter was Spider-Man and that makes her special? She said she wasn’t even 100% sure about it and was surprised when Peter confirmed LMAO Betty was suspecting this in FFH, some of his classmates knew something was going on with him to the point one of them thought he was a male escort. There’s no real difference except that she’s playing Peter’s girlfriend. 

And I happen to think all of this is because fans don’t care about that development or the fact that a black character could be a lead lady with an interesting plot (just like they did with Tessa Thompson in Thor, Natalie Portman, Gwyneth Paltrow, Scarlett Johansson, Elizabeth Olsen, etc). She’s been playing this character for 4 years and Michelle has 0 character development, no storyline, no background. How is that something they could use as a way to bring depth into the character? They can’t, because they didn’t actually care about the things Zendaya mentioned, they wanted her stardom and popularity to boost the movie. The fact that people started shipping her with Tom Holland helped to that reputation and promotion.

how would you rewrite spideychelle in ffh and/or hoco?

I would do exactly this: MCU’s what if’s + Michelle Jones is Nick Fury’s niece. Now, THIS is an interesting storyline, where a teenage girl is Fury’s niece, not exactly an agent but someone with a vast knowledge of espionage. This would explain why she was stalking Peter without taking away the fact that she might have a little crush on him and this line;

MJ: I don’t really have much luck when it comes to getting close to people. Um… so I lied. I wasn’t just watching you ‘cause I thought you were Spider-Man.

would’ve been more interesting with that plot in mind. This with the fact that Fury is probably training her to be an agent or to be the next director of SHIELD in the future, not only this allows her to form a much deeper connection with Peter (who is Spider-Man and struggles with a double life and responsibilities) but it would give her character depth, and a particular insight that the other spider-man girls didn’t have (this would attribute to the ‘not like the other girls’). This could’ve been done without removing the personality traits Zendaya wanted in Michelle.

Fury was involved in the second movie and this would allow their weird contract to keep someone from the avengers or related to them in the movies without having to make Happy or any others participate in them. If they wanted an original character they would’ve given her a better position in it but they didn’t, the real reason they changed her name is because dudebros and extreme comic fans couldn’t stand the thought of having a black girl as a female lead in a Spider-Man movie. They wouldn’t dare to ruin their perfect comic book MJ image, which, btw, Zendaya could’ve pulled off as well. 

As Kevin said;

‘And then I think it leaked that she would be playing MJ and then it became a whole headache for Zendaya to have to navigate. It was never a big, 'Oh my God, it's a big reveal!' There are big reveals in the movie. That's not one of them’ - Kevin.

Why should it be a headache for her? Why didn’t they fight for her character instead of avoiding the real problem? lmaoo this is clearly Marvel having fear of a big backlash that shouldn’t exist in the first place. Her skin color shouldn't be a big thing that she has to deal with or navigate through.

This could even allow her character to have a disney+ series to explore more about her and Fury’s family. I hope that No Way Home gives her character more screen time in terms of her independent development but as I’ve said before, I highly doubt this is possible if NWH is the last standalone spiderman movie in the MCU. 

You have Zendaya wishing to see a black Mary Jane; 

Zendaya would love to see a black Mary Jane, even if she doesn't play her. "People are going to react over anything, but of course there's going to be outrage over that because for some reason some people just aren't ready." 

You see this, along with Laura Harrier thinking that she was afraid Disney wouldn’t allow her to be in the same movie as Zendaya because she believed Disney would never handle two black girls in the same movie and still think there’s nothing wrong with the way they handled things? Only because of the typical opinion: ‘these are high school sweethearts, she’s only there to be a cute character and they already have too much diversity in the cast, it’s not that deep’ lmao 

Btw, read this, it’s worth reading: Michelle Jones: A Disrespect to Zendaya And The Mary Jane Character?

[starkerintheparker]

starker reclist - AUs

Hey guys! Welcome to the second part of my personal Starker reclist, dedicated to AUs. Last week I posted my canon-based recs, you can find them here.

I tried to incorporate as many tropes as I could, hoping everyone will find something special within their interests. There are a few a/b/o and underage fics, all properly tagged in case anyone wishes to avoid them. I also tried to highlight soulmate AUs because I reckon it’s a somewhat popular trope. Enjoy! ❤️

Last updated: April 25th, 2020. All new fics added will be marked with ***

• 007 AU by @darker-soft-starker (T, 4k, completed)

Summary: Undercover and bored at an art auction, Tony finds entertainment in Peter Parker.

Review: Look, I’m a simple woman. Daniel Craig has owned my ass ever since Casino Royale and I was reading 00Q and Hartwin before I even shipped Starker. Point is, I like spy movies, ok?! So naturally I couldn’t leave this fic out of my reclist. I you need further incentive, consider this quote: “What, a little late night espionage not romantic enough for you?” Peter retorts, whipping a pistol out from his jacket and aiming it at Tony’s chest.

• 3 Times I Told You I Loved You & 1 Time You Said It Back by @starkeristheendgame (E) background Peter/Steve, Peter/Bucky, Peter/Scott

Summary: Peter Parker confesses his love to Tony Stark three times. Once at ten, once at fifteen and once at twenty. Finally convinced that Tony will never love him back, Peter ventures out into a different path, desperate to find the love he seeks from someone else. But you know what they say about star-crossed lovers.

Review: This lovely fic holds a very special place in my heart. I’m so invested I decided to wait until it’s finished so I can read it all in one sitting. Peter’s longing and heartbreak hurt my poor soul but I trust Jensen to give me that promised Starker endgame - I know it will be glorious when it finally comes.

• A Night on the Town by @scarletmanuka1 (G, 2.3k, completed)

Summary: Nightclub AU. Years after the events of Endgame, Tony has hit rock bottom. The Snap left him crippled, Pepper has abandoned him and has taken Morgan with her, and he's feeling old and lonely. Peter arranges a night out at the nightclub that he works at to try and cheer Tony up.

Review: I love get together fics, especially if it involves oblivious!Tony getting his shit together and going after his man. Seeing him bitter and broken after Thanos was hard, but special kudos to IronBros moments because that friendship is true goals!

• Age of Adeline by @starkerforlife6969 (completed) background Harley/Peter, Bucky/Peter, Wade/Peter

Review: I’d never in a million years think about this movie as a Starker AU but gosh, this is everything I needed in my life and it completely devastated me but I loved every minute of it. As a devoted monoshipper, I was surprised to realize that I got emotionally involved with all pairings, even more so with Starker, which totally paid off. Gorgeous, powerful and heartfelt. God bless SFL.

• assume makes ass for u and me by @pretty-well-funded (M, 1.6k, completed) tw underage

Summary: In Tony’s defense, he was sure the kid was a rent boy.

Review: This 1.6k fic caught me completely off guard and now I’m crying because I need MORE. I love the premise, the dialogue is criminally good, their voices are amazing and I can’t get enough of cheeky!Peter charming Tony with his wit and filthy mind.  

• Bamf!secretary Peter by @starkerforlife6969 (M, completed)

Review: Who could ever resist some corporate espionage drama with bamf!Peter leaving Tony speechless and horny? Not me. I’d read more 30k of this verse because competent, sassy Peter Parker is such a kink, omg.

• Biker!Tony by @starkerforlife6969 (T, completed) Part 1 Part 2 Part 3 Review: Same age AUs are not usually my thing but I can’t resist cute high school sweethearts written by this fandom goddess. Plus, protective!Tony calling Peter “doll” does things to my heart - and Peter’s.

• Breaking Character by @cagestark (E, 8.3k, completed)

Summary: Tony Stark, billionaire, playboy, philanthropist, and spy for SHIELD. Working with another SHIELD spy, the infamous Spider, he will take down an infamous human trafficking ring in New York. But the act they have to put on will demand more from Tony than he ever thought he'd have to give. Not that he minds.

Review: The spy trope seriously needs more fic like this one, because I’ll have bamf!Peter lying back to save his country while Tony freaks out any day. Cage hits the perfect balance between plot building, fantastic sexual tension, clever dialogue and the hottest smut sequence. What a ride! (Pun intended).  

• Curiosity Killed the Cat by @areluctantsblog (T, 1.5k, completed)

Summary: Peter has been modelling in an art school for years. He's used to strangers' eyes roaming his body - clothed or naked - and he knows that it's not him they are looking at. Not him who they are interested in. He's just a model, a tool for their work. And for a long time he doesn't notice the one pair of eyes that, despite seeing him but rarely, is looking right at him.

Review: Very soft and atmospheric, this fic left me in a bit of a daze and it took me a while to realize it was over. Great writing will do that to you.

• Detective!Tony, Graffiti Artist!Peter by @starkerforlife6969 (M, completed)

Review: Oh don’t mind me, just appreciating this author’s talent at writing from the filthiest smut to the softest “Tony saves Peter in all ways that matter” like this ficlet. We stan.

• Eat at Pete’s by feyrelay + glorious art by @peachbabypie (E)

Summary: Peter gives him an unimpressed look, “If you didn’t do your work, then you wouldn’t be able to earn my time though, would you?” Pfft. “Kid, I have more money than god. I can splurge on your delicious pancakes and attention, trust me,” Tony informs him loftily. Peter smiles that wicked, crooked little smile that's just for him. It's not even and perfect like his the-customer-is-always-right one that's more frequently on offer. “I didn’t say you couldn’t afford it. I said you wouldn’t have earned it.”

Review: How can we ever say no to dom!Peter putting Tony in his place and hopefully on his dick + Tony loving every second of it?? Their dynamics are fantastic and that TASTY COUNTER DIALOGUE KILLS ME. EVERY TIME. Check it out and come scream with me: sub!Tony rights :D

• Fire and Ice by LeafyGreenQueen773 (M, 3k, completed) Soulmate AU

Summary: AU where when someone writes on his or her skin, the same thing shows up on their soulmate in the same place as a Mark that fades away in a few hours.

Review: This was the first Starker soulmate fic I’ve read and it made my heart ache so soft and good. Lovely and bittersweet, quiet and painfully honest. 

• Genius, Acrobat, Playboy, Philanthropist by @scarletmanuka1 (E, 28k, completed)

Summary: After Peter's aeriel acrobatics partner, Adrian Toomes is fired from The Avengers Circus Troupe for theft, he is shocked to discover that his replacement is non other than legendary performer, Tony Stark - the man that Peter had hero worshipped since he first learned how to tumble. 

Review: After reading this fic I realized I need more Circus AUs in my life. I could read jealous idiots falling in love while doing beautiful acrobatics for the rest of my days. Original plot, nice character development and I really appreciated how the author inserted little canon things here and there. 

• Happy to Disappoint by @deaded-blush (M, 60k, completed) tw underage, domestic violence

Summary: Adrian Toomes is in quite deep with notorious mob boss Tony Stark. But when Tony comes to collect the debt owed, he's surprised to discover Toomes has an adoptive son. The chance meeting changes the direction of both their lives...

Review: Hands down one of the best Mafia!AUs I’ve ever seen. Read it all in one sitting and by the end I was SHOOKETH and utterly obsessed with this story. Nothing about it is okay so brace yourself for whump!Peter and lots of h/c. Bonus points for an incredibly satisfying ending that will make you gasp out loud.

• Hey Baby, Slip between my Beta-Pleats and get to know my Alpha-Helix? by @starkerforlife6969 and @darker-soft-starker (E, 37k, completed) A/B/O

Summary: Even though Tony can't tell the difference between Manolo Blahnik and Jimmy Choo, Peter really has no other choice. His heat is around the corner, so even though he loathes the party-going, booze drinking, smug playboy know-it-all that is Tony Stark. He'll just have to do.       

Review: I can’t believe life went on as we know it (or did it??) after these two geniuses wrote together. This is the Starker version of “enemies to lovers” we all wanted and deserve, where spoiled-bratty-posh princess Peter finds the perfect balance for his chaotic energy in goofy-unapologetic-charming playboy Tony. Their falling in love is just so tender, so genuine and so good, it’s impossible not to cheer for these two sweethearts through this delightful, carefully crafted story.

• If you let me by @css1992 (E, 12k, completed)

Summary: Peter had tried dating younger guys, but it just didn’t do it for him. They were often too eager, too fast, too rough. Just too young, in general. Not that older men couldn’t be too much, too, Peter learned it the hard way. The man looking back at him from across the room seemed like a good one. He knew he shouldn’t judge a book by its cover, but he was gorgeous. Possibly the most handsome man Peter had ever seen in his short life.

Review: I remember the first time I read this fic it hit me in such a powerful way I cried a bit and was too overwhelmed to do words and tell the author just how much I loved it. But I never forgot this fic or the way it made me feel. It’s so evocative, so sexy, so raw, so heartbreaking, so sweet and so gentle. Great atmosphere, even greater characterization and some of the hottest smut I’ve ever read. Treat yourself and check this out right now.    

• I’ll be Home by @starkerforlife6969 (M, completed) A/B/O

Summary: The story starts when Soldier Tony comes home for a few days, and is introduced to the love of his life.

Review: Will I ever stop reccing SFL’s works? Maybe, but today is not the day. This gorgeous, breathtaking fic attacked me in my own house during Christmas day and made me cry like a baby. I’m a sucker for reunion stories - the longing, the heartbreak, the power of endurance. This fic reminded me that no matter how long or difficult the journey, love will always find a way.

• Little Spider by @stfustucky (iwillpaintasongforlou) (E, 5k, completed)

Summary: Peter Parker is one of the country's best hitmen, known in the underworld as the Little Spider. He spends his days in the lap of luxury with his billionaire fiance Tony Stark, and his nights doing dirty work for various shady characters. Life is good, right up until someone puts out a hit on Tony and wants Peter to pull the trigger. It... might be time for them to have a talk.

Review: Omg this fic was so deliciously good in a totally surprising and sexy way. Bamf!Peter took my breath away with the perfect balance between his two personas. Tony getting off on that sheer power and confidence is a BIG MOOD and my second favorite thing in this fic. The first being the badass power couple they make. 

• love somebody like you (E) by @intoxicatelou

Summary: five times Tony was Peter’s roommate and one time he was his soulmate instead.

Review: Who doesn’t love some forced proximity mixed with the unbeatable soulmate trope? This plot is the hottest take and my heart cannot handle young!Tony with his brilliant mind and sassy charm protecting and flirting with Peter, unfff feels everywhere *cries in Starker*

• Love Thy Neighbour by @darker-soft-starker (T, 2.3k, completed)

Summary: Tony's new neighbour is kinda weird.

Review: I know I keep saying that same age!AUs are not really my thing but I’m the softest bitch for feel-good, cozy domesticity, and I love how this charming story shows that ordinary life become magical when shared with someone special. I could babble all night about how eccentric and confident Peter seduces our man of science that for once has absolutely no idea of what’s going on - but you really should see it for yourself right now :)

• Mafia Boss!Tony Break Up Make Up by @starkerforlife6969 (E, completed)

Review: Man, this fic was so rude to my heart. The heartbreak, the rough sex, the guilt, the hopeful make up, the gorgeous ending. My body literally cannot take the stress, why are Mafia AUs so doomed and beautiful and more importantly, why is SFL so good at writing them???

• Microcosm Series by @bloomblood (M, 32k) tw underage

Summary: Tony and Peter become each other’s heroes after the Snap, saving themselves before they offer aid back to the world.

Review: I haven’t read many post-apocalyptic fics but this series’s raw atmosphere sucked me in. I adore the quiet intimacy, the slow and tentative healing, and all the silent and complex emotions underneath apparent simplicity. Big aesthetic mood, just as its lovely author. 

• Musechaser by @nightskygardenia (M, 10.5k, completed)

Summary: Eighteen year old art student Peter Parker is desperately searching for his muse, someone who can bring his creative skills to the next level through inspiration. Lucky for him, his next class just so happens to feature a gorgeous model by the name of Tony Stark, a man Peter's convinced is his muse, to the point of staying after class to ask for private modeling sessions.

Review: Another big aesthetic mood, this fic paints a gorgeous imagery. I love the setting, the slow pace and the building anticipation until the sexual tension finally breaks. Peter is adorable and Tony exudes confidence; their voices are spot on and their chemistry is palpable and intense.  

• My Best Friend’s Dad by @darker-soft-starker (M, 17.6k, completed)

Summary: Peter is home for the summer, back from his first year away at college. Having stayed over at Harley's house every weekend since they were fourteen, he never used to think much of his friend’s dad. A few years worth of college experience has Peter noticing Tony in a different way. This time, Tony notices him back.

Review: Turns out that Tony Stark being a dad and a daddy is too much for my body. I worship this fic. I wanna get married to it and have its babies. No words will ever make it justice *sobs* no but seriously, secret relationship is a perfect Starker trope and this one will take you to the edge of your seat until the very end. A+ characterization, lovely build up, infuriating cliffhangers and the wholesome happy ending we all deserve. This is the kind of fic that leaves you a bit depressed once it’s over, because you suddenly realize you’ll never read it for the first time ever again. So get to it and make sure to enjoy every second!

• One Call Away by @readysetstarker (E)

Summary: Tony didn’t need the phone sex gig. He was more than well off, his own sex life was in great shape, but damn, there was just something about listening to someone else get off to his voice. 

Review: Omg who could ever resist sex hotline + daddy kink + identity porn? Dev is coming after our own hearts and bodies with this hot combo. I love the balance between their cute chemistry and the hot phone sex, plus the identity porn is deliciously fun. I was so happy to know this fic is getting longer than the author had previously anticipated because I’m definitely not ready to let it go.

• Open Road by @starkerflowers (E, 2.5k, completed)

Summary: It’s not love, but it’s good. TW: implied abuse (not between Tony/Peter); bruises/violence; panic attack. 

Review: This refreshing not-quite-a-love-story will capture your heart, make it hurt, make it ache, make it hope and finally, make it heal. This fic is so gorgeously written I honestly cannot rec it enough. Yes, it’s dark and angsty, but it’s also gentle, hopeful and deeply evocative.  

• Panty Raid by @starkerforlife6969 (M, completed) A/B/O

Summary:  Imagine Tony being forced to do a panty raid as an initiation for his fraternity. So Tony, keeping up his playboy appearances, sneaks into the omega dorms. And he sees sweet innocent Peter who is so alarmed by the alphas raiding their dorm Tony can’t help but comfort him.

Review: Unf this fic is just too charming and cute, my heart cannot take it. Frat stories are so fun they make me forget my preference for age gaps and realize I could read more 50k of protective young!Tony any day, please and thank

• Pete’s Eats by @darker-soft-starker (T, 9.3k, completed)

Summary: Peter has a YouTube channel where he just drinks wine and teaches people how to cook things if they live in a mediocre apartment. While cooking and drinking he just talks about stuff like memes and school and, most importantly, his undying thirst for Tony Stark.

Review: This is legit the funniest shit I’ve ever read, everybody else can go home. I was already sold on Peter being a relatable thirsty dork, but Tony’s A+++ characterization (for a moment I thought it was RDJ on the big screen) and the identity porn side trope killed me for good. And what a way to go. I’m an angst hoe but I could read this forever and would be okay with it. 

• pondus, pondera by spqr (M, 9.3k, completed) underage prostitution but not between P/T

Summary: Peter sells his virginity for $5,000 when he’s fifteen.

Review: Ugh I’m so weak for the angsty hooker trope, I just love the potential to simultaneously explore whump, mutual pining and gentle recovery. Trust spqr to deliver it all with a carefully crafted slow burn, god-tier characterization and a heartfelt and satisfying get together. This fic is a gem.

• Powerful by @cagestark (E, 4.6k, completed) SIM!Tony

Summary: After finding out about Peter's abusive ex, Tony privately vows revenge.

Review: This fic took my breath away and made me realize that dark!Tony with a soft spot for Peter is everything I need in my life. Precious Peter being empowered by a viciously protective Tony is now my absolute jam, and it was fascinating to see see their dynamics mutually feeding each other’s nature. This fic is gorgeous, sexy and liberating. 

***Red Light District series by @starker-stories (17k, ongoing)

Summary: Everyone knows that Tony Stark is a playboy who has dozens of women passing through his life and through his bed. What everyone doesn't know is that Tony Stark is deeply closeted, longing for something he can't ever have -- a life and a love with another man.

Review: I’m completely in love with this series and not only because it explores the good old hooker trope which I’m very partial to. It’s so well written and atmospheric, if a tad bittersweet and heart-wrenching. Great narrative tension, Tony and Peter’s chemistry is insane, their voices and dialogue are amazing and the smut is looong and scorching hot *chef’s kiss* 

• Samadhi by @starkercrossedlovers (E, completed)

Summay: Tony goes to yoga to try and deal with his anxiety and ends up falling for the instructor, one Peter Parker.

Review: Okay so yoga fics are among my guilty pleasures and I can’t get enough of feel-good fics like this one. Peter’s such a sweetheart, so thoughtful and amazing with Tony. I love it when they take care of each other and find solace together, this fic made me soft :’)

• Single dad baker!Peter and lawyer!Tony by @starkerforlife6969 (G, completed)

Review: I’m not usually a fluff girl but this fic is just too wholesome to go by unnoticed. Nothing hits my soft side harder than a cynical character reaching that turning point that makes them start to believe in love. Fuck yes, YOU SHOW THAT MAN SOME HAPPILY EVER AFTER PETE

• Soft Kitty by @ko-fiandfanfiction (E, 33k, completed)

Summary: Peter wasn’t wearing something Tony would call normal, not that there was anything inherently wrong with what he was wearing or anything. It just struck him as…different. To put it plainly. Tony is not sure what to make of this new development.

Review: For those of you who love some occasional feminization, this is the perfect treat. Soft, sexy and sweet, it combines top guilty, pining Tony with oblivious idiots in love, two of my favorite tropes. Amazing slow burn with glorious sexual tension, infuriating dancing around each other and a very satisfying get together. Bonus points for including the “Avengers living together in the Tower” trope, this is the 2012 team building fic we deserved.

• Solitaire by @darker-soft-starker (M, 29k, completed)

Summary: After a traumatic experience, Tony loses his marriage and his business empire in one fell swoop. At rock bottom, it takes real change to pick up the pieces, to dig himself out of the funk he's been living in. It's not pretty. Along the path of healing Tony meets a bright young man, Peter Parker, who makes the entire journey worth it.

Review: Oh man, this was a tough ride on the soul. Few things hurt me like reading whump!Tony but his healing journey is so beautiful it’s all worth it. Top notch characterization, amazing dialogue, FEELS EVERYWHERE, and a gorgeous portrayal of loneliness, friendship, hope and love.  

• Someone Who Makes you Happy by tuesday (T, 6k, completed) Soulmate AU

Summary: Peter was born with several marks already marring his skin, including an interlocking AES over his heart. A scar-sharing soulmate AU.

Review: This fic is absolutely stunning and it makes my heart ache in all the right places. Great worldbuilding (I LOVE the scarring concept, so unique and fitting to these characters), A+++ Tony characterization (the wit and the self-hate are so spot on I could weep) and a journey full of longing, until they finally get to be on the same page. 

• Splice by Mezzymet (E, 35k, completed) A/B/O

Summary: "He's not...." The doctors polite nature and disposition hadn't been able to mask the odd tone of his voice, like he had been reading someone's death certificate. Only Peter hadn't been on his death bed. "Peter isn't like the other kids.

Review: I keep coming back to this story because it’s such a fascinating and unique take on this trope. Very well thought and put together - the world building is fantastic, the sex sequences are breathtaking, and Tony’s gentle thoughtfulness makes me wanna cry.   

• Stopover by @cagestark (E, 10k, completed)

Summary: A stopover is just a break in a journey. Tony is on the run from the organization he used to kill for, and when he stopped for gas and coffee in the small town of Stopover, IL, he had no plans to leave with anything more.

Review: *sigh* this is the mob boss!Tony fic I’ve waited for all my life. Even more impressive than the delicious smut checking all my kink boxes was the phenomenal build up, the overall urgent atmosphere that surrounds those “on the run”, combined with the gentle wonder of stealing a moment in time to find solace in the most unlikely place. Breathtakingly moving. 

• Student Body President Election by @starkerforlife6969 (T, completed)

Summary: Tony and Peter are competing for Student Body President and a smear campaign takes things a little too far.

Review: GIMME ENEMIES TO LOVERS AND ALL THE HIGH SCHOOL DRAMA. This ficlet is so fun and adorable it will make your heart smile. Great plot idea and the usual bonus points for protective!Tony being a sweetheart. Will have more 30k, pls and thank.

• Such a Softer Sin by @css1992 (E, 18k, completed) background Peter/Norman

Summary: Tony is a self-made man. Peter is a sugar baby – someone else’s sugar baby.

Review: Another fantastic slow burn that hit me hard in the feels. I love it when fics explore the characters’ personal struggles before they get together, and while the Peter!whump destroyed my heart, Tony’s parallel journey of growth took my breath away. css1992’s talent took the good old sugar baby trope to a whole new epic level. 

• Summer Daze by @darker-soft-starker (NR, 4.3k, completed)

Summary: Starker no-powers au where Peter watches construction worker Tony from his bedroom window as the older man works across the street.

Review: Ahh yes, the classic “food as metaphor for love” trope, my absolute jam. This fic is so adorable and endearing, pining!Peter in his wooing mission makes my heart ache and the sweet anticipation is so good. There’s something about this fic that gives me nostalgia; it’s as soft and warm as a summer breeze.

• Tamed by @cagestark (E, 8.3k, completed)

Summary: Tony Stark, billionaire, playboy, philanthropist, and spy for SHIELD. Working with another SHIELD spy, the infamous Spider, he will take down an infamous human trafficking ring in New York. But the act they have to put on will demand more from Tony than he ever thought he'd have to give. Not that he minds.

Review: It’s no wonder this is Cage’s most beloved fic. Bad boy!Tony being all soft for Peter is everything we deserve, not to mention a mesmerizing (and HOT AF) first time together. This fic shows how rich and captivating Cage’s writing is - she’s able to transform that old basic trope into something unique and heartfelt. If you need one more reason to read this, please consider: best first bj ever :)    

• Teacher!Tony wrong number by @areluctantsblog (T) tw underage

Summary: Peter’s using a replacement phone and mistypes Ned’s number asking for help on a physics problem.

Review: I have such a soft spot for this fic! It was one of the first AUs I’ve ever read and I’m completely in love with their dynamics. Peter’s underage but this fic is carefully written and pretty tame, so I’d rec it to anyone looking for the good old “they probably shouldn’t, but then again nothing’s happening” trope.  

• The Bleedover Effect by tuesday (T, 11k, completed) Soulmate AU

Summary: The first time Tony got punched in the face by nobody there, he had a lot of very complicated feelings about it that mostly boiled down to, "I deserve this." A pain-sharing soulmate AU.

Review: Tuesday truly is the queen of soulmate AUs, we have no other choice but STAN. First of all, I adore the concept here - being such a sucker for whump, this could easily become my favorite soulmate trope. As usual, her Tony voice is perfect and his devotion to Peter hits my fragile heart every time. Kudos for the soft and hopeful ending. The series has been discontinued but the sequels are very much worth the read, if you’re up for it :)

• The Catfish Chronicles by @stfustucky (iwillpaintasongforlou) (E, 32k, completed)

Summary: Peter creates a fake profile under the name “Benjamin” trying to catch his scumbag boyfriend cheating. Tony creates a Tinder profile for "Anthony" looking for love late in life. Funny how two geniuses who fight side by side every day can only manage to fall in love after they've accidentally catfished each other. This is... gonna get awkward.

Review: My identity porn thirst might be showing but who cares, I want these two idiots pining after each other in every possible way. This was such a fun and exciting ride! The suspense had me legit freaking out and their get together was lovely and wholesome. I particularly adored how thoughtful and sweet Tony was dealing with Peter’s insecurities, that was handled really well. A treat!

• The Concept of Domesticity by @peters-tofu (E) mpreg

Summary: Tony has accomplished nearly everything he's set out to do, now he wants something different. A family of his own? Sounds easy enough. But he's far too impatient for a relationship, so surrogacy it is. Meanwhile, twenty-two year old college student Peter Parker has just volunteered to be a bearer at an agency.

Review: Can’t say I’m a big fan of this trope but since every rule has its exception, here it is! The only Starker mpreg I’ve ever read is so so good and adorable I can’t help smiling every time I think about it. I just love their dynamics, the soft domesticity, the cute bantering, and the fact that Peter has one baby daddy all wrapped around his little finger but what else is new ;)

***The Date by Neuropsyche (E, 33k, completed)

Summary: Tony has a high society gala and he needs a date.

Review: My favorite fake dating AU so far, this fic is so sweet and wholesome. Confident!Peter is my jam and it was amazing to see their sassy bantering evolving into genuine affection towards each other, not to mention the delicious hot smut with dom!Tony :D 

• The Final Heist by @starkerforlife6969 (G, 10k, completed)

Summary: Tony’s only got one more heist. He does this, he can be retired on an island in the Mediterranean in a month. All he needs is a world-class art forger. (White Collar inspired)

Review: Honestly, the amount of times I’ve mentioned SFL in this list is getting embarrassing. I must have done something really good in another life to get such a talented author writing something inspired by one of my favorite TV shows. I feel like this fic was personally crafted for me; it’s original, romantic, sexy, fun, clever and so very atmospheric. I’m a lucky hoe. 

• The Heart Benefits of Exercise by @areluctantsblog (E, 14k, completed)

Summary: Personal Trainer Tony and Gym Newbie Peter. Peter can hardly keep it together watching Tony demonstrate different exercises and lift weights. Tony is very much aware of the effect he has on his trainee, and after a session, Peter begs to be shown a whole different array of exercises.

Review: This fic was a lovely surprise, very relatable and entertaining. Love myself an adorable Peter thirsting over Tony (can’t really judge lol), especially if it comes with a good amount of pining and hot, kinky smut :D

• Tipping the Scale by JayPendragon (E, 119k, completed)

Summary: Peter has a rhythm. A system. All runs like a well-oiled machine, engineering pun intended. Every wheel of his life is churning perfectly. He doesn’t expect Tony Stark of all people to throw a wrench in it.

Review: Hooker!AUs are my kryptonite, I’m so here for the “fuck first, talk later” and the general pining + misunderstandings + h/c combo this trope provides. This amazing longfic delivers it all with a well-paced, delicious slow burn told from Peter’s POV, which is always a delight to read and makes you fall even more in love with him. If you also enjoy this trope you’re in for a treat!

•  To Catch a Spider by Thekeyandquill (E)

Summary: After the war, Peter Parker left his career as a spy behind to live a simple life in the south of France. But when someone frames him for the theft of plans for a new weapon, he must re-enter his old life and get close to the real thief's likely next target - one Tony Stark. A To Catch a Thief AU.

Review: TKAQ is so skilled their writing should be experienced like fine wine. Amazing research, top notch world building and characterization, and the loveliest atmosphere that makes you feel like you’re inside a movie. Clever, organic dialogue and a sexual tension so palpable you can almost taste it. This is a gem. Make sure to check their other works.

•  Two White, Two Black, One Pink by @starkerforlife6969 (E) poly fic: Peter/Tony, Peter/Steve, Peter/Bucky, Peter/Strange Summary: Peter has three (maybe one day: four) men in his life who mean the world to him. Review: Ugh, this fic is pure bliss. It has legit ruined me for any and all other poly fics. Words just cannot describe how gorgeous, poetic and unique SFL’s writing is, or how deeply it has affected me. So if you enjoy Mafia AUs, poly fics and soft-but-also-bamf!Peter taking care of Tony AND being taken care of by the men he loves, give this a chance and experience transcending storytelling. 

•  Uranium Heart by spqr (M, 11k, completed) Soulmate AU Summary: It’s probably better, Peter thinks, that he doesn’t know who his soulmate is. He wouldn’t want to lie to them about Spider-Man, but he doesn’t think he’d be able to tell them the truth, either.

Review: Be still my heart. This is such a gorgeous fic! Not only it combines two major tropes in a coherent 11k story, but I also appreciate how spqr explores these characters and their dynamics in a very unique and realistic way. I strongly recommend checking their other works, especially Landslide. 

•  Waiting Game by @cagestark (E, 6k, completed)

Summary: Peter hasn't seen Tony in fifteen years. Not since he had their hasty marriage annulled, graduated college, and moved across the country. Their twenty year high school reunion will find them reunited. They've both changed, but one thing hasn’t. Hint: it's their feelings for each other.

Review: This fic literally made my heart BURST WITH FEELS: the whole build up and anticipation, the slow disclosure of their past, the first uncertain moments of their reunion. I also appreciate the powerful and moving message underneath it all, that true healing comes after we overcome our demons at our own pace. A masterpiece.

•  Wooing Peter Parker by Neuropsyche (E, 62.5k, completed)

Summary: Tony and Rhodey dodge the press and sneak into the library where they meet Peter Parker - who immediately catches Tony's eye. But Peter isn't a one and done kind of guy and Tony's going to have to work for what he wants this time.

Review: This is the kind of fic that warms you all over and makes you smile non stop. It has so many elements I love in fic: cute flirting, clever banter, hot sex, soft domesticity, boys being reasonable and talking their problems out for a change. If you’re looking for something light, sweet and honest, this series is a must read!

[kittyanonymity]

Marinette is the daughter of Wonder Woman X Superman

Hey have this!!!! I was inspired by @eve-valution and their wonderful art!

Also like.... It’s really just an excuse for Mari to be ridiculously overpowered tbh; plus.... the aesthetic of this tiny adorable girl accidentally breaking things all the time, and getting super flustered over it. >.> It’s cute, ok? lol

Honestly, my original plan for this was Daminette, and this version is; but I might also make some adjustments for a Timinette version (I love them, they’re adorkable together ok)? I haven’t decided yet. ALSO this is just a basic outline; not the fic itself. I haven’t started the fic yet. Feel free to ask things though!! ALSO THIS AU IS CLASS FRIENDLY!!! 

~ DAMINETTE VERSION~

So in the latest DC animated movies, they’ve been pushing Diana/Clark pretty heavily while implying that despite Clark’s attraction to Diana, he’s still in love with Lois; this is seen pretty obviously when Diana and Clark go on a date, and Lois shows up. Clark immediately puts space between him and Diana and honestly, it’s a little telling. (this is all in stark contrast to the Justice League cartoon from the 90’s/early 2000’s, where Diana and Bruce ((Wonder Woman and Batman)) were shipped pretty heavily) Talk about baby’s first OTP, am I right? XD

ANYWAY THE POINT IS THIS.

Lois and Clark are together, like they’re getting married. (somewhere in the world, Damian is turning one; this is relevant later.) One night, Superman has a ‘moment of weakness’, and him and Wonder woman bang. BOOM! Pregnant.

Diana is rightfully upset, as Clark immediately tells her this was a mistake, they never should’ve done that. He goes back to Lois, and they don’t speak outside of the Watchtower anymore. Diana does not tell him when she finds out she’s pregnant. She goes to Bruce, tells him she’ll be out of commission for up to 3 years.

Bruce is rightfully concerned, but Diana doesn’t tell him what’s wrong. He assures her she can leave; they’ll keep it together out here while she rests in Themyscira. She feels bad for not telling him, but resolves to do it later. Home she goes, to see her mom and the rest of the Amazons!

Her mother is disgusted by Clark’s conduct, but Diana has always wanted to have a child. They know it will be a daughter: it always is, Hippolyta says conspiratorially. The pregnancy is interesting, and many of the Amazons are startled at how quickly their princess can finish her projects. Hippolyta watches on in concern; her daughter has become startlingly creative during these months, and as a previous Ladybug that can mean only one thing.

Tikki will be back in the family soon.

Hippolyta says nothing about this to Diana, not wanting to alarm her daughter.

When Marinette is born with dark hair, and blue eyes there is no surprise. Diana stares at her daughter as if she is the most beautiful thing to have ever existed, and to her, she is. Marinette spends 3 years on Themyscira, learning from her mother, grandmother, and all of her many sisters. She’s an excitable child, with a penchant for marking walls with whatever she can draw. She grasps language easily, and much quicker than anyone would think possible.

But Diana has a duty. She must return to the outside world to assist the league. She thinks of the outside world, how it has taught her, hurt her, but ultimately made her stronger; and she knows that she wants Marinette to have all of that and more. So she contacts an old friend in Paris.

Sabine had left Themyscira many years prior, once Diana had cleared the way for the other Amazons to venture out. She’d fallen in love with a baker, and though the 2 couldn’t have children of their own, they were excellent people. People Diana knew she could entrust Marinette with. Sabine agreed after they discussed it extensively.

Diana would come see Marinette regularly once she was 10, giving the girl some years to mature, and come to terms with her mother’s identity. Diana assured Sabine she’d send any and all support requested, along with letters and gifts for Marinette as she grew. Diana hated to leave her daughter, but seeing as she would constantly be in danger once again, she couldn’t bear to put Marinette through that. Diana tells Sabine who Marinette’s father is, so they can be ready.

Sabine threatens to cut his dick off, which Diana laughs at. Diana and Marinette live with Sabine and Tom for a year, letting Marinette get to know and love them; and then Diana tells Marinette she has to go, the world needs her.

And Marinette just nods, giving her mother a smile.

“I know mommy.”

Good byes and I love you’s are exchanged, and after many tears, Diana finally manages to tear herself away, and she leaves. There is a hole in her heart the size of the Earth, but Diana has a job to do.

This is the world where Marinette lives now too, and she must do all she can to keep her daughter’s world safe.

Clark and Lois get married while Diana is away, and Jonathan is born; he’s only a year younger than Marinette, and 2 years younger than Damian like in canon. Clark is curious as to where Diana disappeared to, asking around, but the only one who knows is Bruce. And when Clark asks, Bruce simply shrugs.

“She told me she’d be gone for a few years. I didn’t press her for details. Everyone needs a break, Superman.”

Clark didn’t like it; he was worried. For her to disappear so abruptly… Surely she hadn’t truly loved him? Clark hates himself as he thinks about it, regret permeating him. He does his best to not think about it.

At least until Diana shows back up, 4 years later, and a little more jaded than she used to be. Bruce welcomes her back with a small smile, and a nod. Diana doesn’t even look at Clark.

And for Clark, it’s enough to just know that she’s safe. He doesn’t blame her for hating him; he kinda hates him too.

Literally none of the League know about Marinette; Diana doesn’t tell fucking anyone.

Miraculous canon happens as normal, only difference is that Lila is fucking gone after the Volpina incident. She’s gone after that, no return, nothing. I hate that girl, and honestly, I just wanna write something where Marinette’s friends love her, without the class drama. I can’t forgive the Miraculous writers for doing that to the students. Chat is still pretty pushy in his pursuit of Ladybug, but not in an exaggerated way. However, it does still cause some eventual complications that he needs to learn and grow from. Minimum bashing should be involved, and it will be centered around pointing out the toxic things he does, and him correcting those behaviors. Adrien is my boi and I love him.

ANYWAY.

When Marinette is 10, Diana shows up to see her. Marinette has known that Sabine wasn’t her real mother; Mari still calls Sabine Maman though cause like… the woman raised her, duh. Marinette loves Diana, even though she doesn’t remember what her mother looks like. Diana always remembers her birthday, and all of the holidays; Marinette has saved every letter, and gift her mother has ever sent her. She doesn’t realize her mother is Wonder Woman yet. Well, at least until she shows up on her 10th birthday. Marinette recognizes her as the heroine instantly, but says nothing; she’s seen movies, she knows secret identities are important!

Over the years, Sabine has kept Diana informed on the progression of Marinette’s… abilities. Look, the girl is a split between the Amazonian princess, and a Kryptonian. God only knows what she’ll be able to do. So far, Marinette has displayed signs of super strength and speed, and most recently flight; she’s got the enhanced senses as well, and she carries ear plugs with her when they go out. Diana is happy to know though, that Marinette has a strong sense of right and wrong. She owes Sabine a great debt of gratitude, and knows she’ll never be able to thank the woman enough for raising their (because yeah, Marinette is theirs now) daughter.

(Marinette goes to school, excited to tell everyone about her 2 mommies and her daddy. Despite Diana not being romantically involved with them…. Yet???? Maybe????? HMMMM)

After Marinette turns 10, Diana makes a point to visit every spring for her daughter’s birthday, and to check in on things. The day of Marinette’s 14th birthday, Diana steps off of the plane, and on her way to the Dupain-Cheng bakery, she witnesses her first akuma. Preparing to step in, Diana freezes when Ladybug and Chat Noir appear on the scene.

Diana recognizes Marinette on sight, and the spots are familiar. She remembers her mother, the stories of Tikki, and the adventures they had, the evils they stopped. She remembers how anxious her mother was during her pregnancy, when Diana could not stop drawing, writing, whatever she could be doing.

Marinette is a pure soul of creation, born of Tikki’s essence, and she is Diana’s daughter, an Amazon, and half kryptonian.

Diana watches her daughter fight, hands clenched at her sides. The Amazon in her demanding she see this through, watch her daughter be the fierce warrior she is meant to be; the mother in her is clawing at her throat, preventing her from speaking with the force of her panic.

And Marinette is an excellent fighter. Diana recognizes many of the moves she used to practice while they were still on the island, and they’ve been refined, polished, and put on display to show the world. It had to be Sabine’s handiwork, teaching her this. Did Sabine know she was Ladybug? No, she would’ve told Diana first thing.

Diana does not intervene, watching Ladybug win, and undo the damage.

Once the akuma is dealt with, Diana follows her daughter as she swings away and finds a quiet place to de-transform.

“My little light, you have exactly 2 minutes to tell me what is going on.”

Marinette jumps a mile, whipping around to see her mother, and then Tikki is smiling, hugging Diana’s cheek.

“Diana! It’s been too long!” Diana gives the kwami a smile.

“Hello, Tikki, mother misses you.”

Marinette is dumbfounded.

Diana explains everything, about how she knows, and why; tells her about Hippolyta, and her connection to the Miraculous. It was the most exciting and stressful birthday yet.

Diana starts making more regular trips to Paris to assist her daughter when she needs the extra help; since Diana is generally fairly good at keeping her emotions in check, it works out. Marinette works extra hard to make sure she keeps her extra abilities in check.

She uses her powers in small subtle ways; using her flight to get a better distance out of a yo-yo swing, but doing it in a way where it’s unnoticeable to the standard eye. Or using her x ray vision to avoid people she doesn’t want to see. She lets herself be clumsy, and careless with her movements in her daily life, making sure none of her friends can ever make the connection between her and Ladybug later on; before Ladybug, she’s clumsy so she doesn’t draw attention to her powers. The only one who knows she has powers is Nino.

It’s hard to explain to your childhood friend why you’re flying after all; he had been there the first time she’d accidentally used this new power. OOPS

All abilities/side effects Mari has:

-Super strength

-super senses (hearing, sight, smell, etc ((is taste usually included in this???? hm)))

-Enhanced vision (x-ray, thermal)

-Flight

-Super speed (bout as fast as Superman if she tries hard enough)

-Ladybug luck

-Martial arts/various fighting styles

-Amazon swordfighting & archery

Side effects:

-Sluggish in Winter thanks to Ladybug things; will hibernate if she gets too cold

-Has bursts of creative energy that keep her up far longer than she should be; usually crashes afterwards; these will stop as she gets older, and gets a better handle on her Ladybug powers.

-Gets sick easily during the cold months

-Kryptonite hurts her, obviously; she gets a wicked migraine, and nausea; usually her vision gets bad too.

Marinette’s personality doesn’t change all that much, really. She’s still undeniably kind, and selfless, always going out of the way for her friends. She’s a bit more vocal about her sense of justice, not putting up with bullies. Chloe gets her redemption a bit early because of this. Marinette is also not afraid to just absolutely throw down and brawl if you’re being a violent asshole. Like, damn. She is tiny, but she will miss you up.

ANYWHO.

With Diana making frequent trips to Paris, it catches Bruce’s eye, and he of course gets suspicious. The French government has been keeping the situation with the Akumas under wraps for about 3 years now, no news escaping the country. Marinette is currently 16, Diana has been helping her deal with hard to handle akumas for 2 years; Damian is 17, and Jon is 15.

So when Bruce looks into Diana’s activity in Paris, he’s startled to find little to nothing about Wonder Woman. An article briefly mentions something called an ‘akuma’ but then there’s no further mention. Instead he finds records of Diana Prince shacking up with a married couple and their daughter.

When Bruce finds a picture of Diana standing with the Dupain-Chengs, his breath leaves him. She is staring at the girl in the picture with such a proud adoring gaze, and he would have to be blind to miss the resemblance. The girl’s age lines up with when Diana left, and Bruce remembers how unusually concerned Clark had been about her location.

He’s the world’s greatest detective, and the pieces are too easy to put together.

SO Bruce Wayne does what Bruce Wayne always does.

Finds a way to get information.

He invites Francois-Dupont to his yearly student seminar, meant to help students get a jump start on their careers. They must prove why they deserve to attend, like all the schools invited, in the form of an essay, accompanied by a video of their school.

Mlle. Bustier’s class is selected as the class to make the video representing the school; Marinette and Alya volunteer to head the project with audio assistance from Nino, while Adrien offers to help with the budget. The class comes together to offer some kind of assistance or another, even Chloe, who goes out of her way to help the class plan. Marinette writes the basic video out, how it should look, what it should say.

But they need a narrator.

The class unanimously votes for Marinette.

“You know us better than anyone, Nette. It’s gotta be you.”

“Everyone knows you here, Mari; you’re the sweetest girl in the school.”

“A WELCOME VIDEO!”

It’s Alya who shouts it, grinning at the class.

“It’ll be a welcome video with Marinette showing a ‘new kid’ around!”

Marinette’s gotta admit, it’s genius; the class agrees, and planning begins in earnest now that they have a better idea for it.

All of their carefully laid plans fall to pieces when their high end camera breaks the day they need to film. Everyone is shouting, stress is high, and Rose is crying. Marinette knows she needs to do something before an akuma shows up, but then she hears a yelp, and she looks over to see a first year stumble back as Kim knocks into her. Marinette’s there in an instant, steadying the girl on her feet, and giving her a smile.

“Are you ok?”

She’s unaware of Adrien watching her with a fond smile, while he elbows Alya; Alya stops yelling at Chloe long enough to look over, and quickly take her phone out, and press record. The classes attention immediately shifts, the tension all but disappearing.

The first year nods hesitantly.

“Y-yes I’m ok. It’s just my first day here, a-and I’m…” The dark haired girl bit her lip, looking at the floor, “I’m really scared.” Marinette frowned for a moment before she smiled, and took the girls’ hand.

“I’m Marinette, what’s your name?” The girl sniffled, rubbing at her eyes.

“My name’s Bridgette.” Marinette nodded, her smile growing.

“It’s nice to meet you. Sorry about my friend Kim over there. He gets a little excitable sometimes.” Bridgette offered her a smile.

“It’s ok. It looked interesting so I wanted to get closer, but I wasn’t paying much attention.” Her eyes fell, and she looked off to the side, but Marinette gripped her hand gently, causing her to look up.

“I can show you around the school if you like. Everyone here is really nice, I promise. We look after each other the best we can, and you can always ask one of us for help.” Marinette gestures to her classmates, who offer Bridgette encouraging smiles. It’d been awhile since they’d seen Marinette work her particular brand of magic. Bridgette’s smile grew, and she finally nodded.

“I’d really appreciate that, Marinette thank you.” Marinette simply waved her off.

“It’s fine! We’ll make it fun!” She turned to her class, missing Alya hiding behind Adrien, still recording.

“I’ll be back in a bit guys. Come find me when you get the camera replaced.”

The camera panned around Adrien’s back as Marinette turned away, and began leading Bridgette further into the school. Alya hurried to catch up, the class following shortly after.

Marinette showed the young girl all around the building, from her homeroom class, and to each individual classroom so the girl would never be lost. And she talked to her, learning that Bridgette had just recently moved there from Italy, escaping her old school and the torment she’d endured there. It burned Marinette to know that someone had been so cruel to such a sweet girl, but Bridgette assured her it was fine since she wasn’t there anymore. Marinette in turn, assured her that no one at Dupont would ever treat her so cruelly. And if anyone did happen to do so, she should come find her immediately.

Bridgette laughed, flushing pink.

“Thanks, Mari!” Bridgette’s gaze grew wistful, “It’s been awhile since I’ve laughed with a friend.”

And Marinette was resplendent in her joy, pulling the girl into a gentle hug.

“We’ll look out for you, Bridgette. You can count on us.” The girl returned the embrace, nodding. After a moment, the two girls pulled back, and Bridgette smiled.

“Thanks for caring, Mari.” Marinette shrugged, giving her a smile.

“You’re worth it, Bridgette, remember that.” She nodded her head towards a classroom, “But you should probably get to class now. I think you’re really late. I’ll have a talk with Mr. Beaumont about why right after my class and I finish this project, ok? Just tell him Marinette will explain, and he should understand.” Bridgette nodded, thanking her again, before kissing her cheek, and heading to her classroom. Marinette watched her go with a smile, and sighed, before turning to head back to her class.

Only to promptly freeze at the sight of them behind her, grinning in glee, Alya at the front, phone held high.

Marinette flushed bright red.

“Guys, what’re you doing?” Alya clicked end on the recording and grinned at her best friend.

“Getting our video of course!”

Marinette was certain she was going to die. Or combust on the spot. God, what if she actually did though, and it was just another damn power to worry about???

Needless to say, she’s embarrassed. But once the class reviews the video, they find it to be perfect. They were able to stay close enough to hear Bridgette’s and Marinette’s conversation, and hear Marinette explaining things to her. Nino took the audio and boosted it in certain parts, and making sure to edit out any personal information the girls discussed during the tour.

The video coupled with the 15 page essay Marinette submits secures their spot in the seminar.

Meanwhile, when Diana hears Marinette gushing about their school being invited to the annual Wayne Seminar, she is immediately suspicious. She finds Bruce within the day, appearing in the Batcave with no preamble; Bruce is waiting for her.

He offers her a drink. And Diana sighs, because he definitely already knows; so she accepts his drink, and they sit.

And they talk.

He asks why she didn’t tell him, he would’ve helped her. And Diana laughs, and it’s surprisingly good natured.

“Bruce, you would’ve killed him back then. Don’t think I don’t know how much you two hated each other back then.” She sighed, “You idiots were finally about to be friends, and if I’d told you what he’d said, what we’d done…” She snorted, “I was quite sure you would’ve killed him.” Bruce didn’t deny her accusations, nor did he accept them.

“What’s she like?” And Bruce watched Diana’s whole body relax, a small smile on her face as she swirled the liquor in her glass.

“She is the best thing that has ever existed for me in this world. She’s my little light, and I will see that this world is safe for her.” Bruce thought of his sons, his daughters, and he nodded.

“And her powers?” Diana’s grin grew broad, and she raised her fist.

“She is strong, Bruce. The strongest.” Again, Bruce nodded, having a drink from his glass as Diana stared him down, “If you hurt her while she is in your care, Bruce, we will have problems. You know this?” Bruce sat his glass down, reaching for the bottle to refill his cup.

“I know, Diana. My intentions are purely curious, I promise you.” He smiled, a small upturn of his lips, “She was the star of their video, you know.”

He shows her the video the class submitted, edited to include the class singing the praises of their class president as an intro, before it cut to some footage taken on a cell phone. It followed Marinette around as she guided a younger student around the school, offering advice, and going out of her way to help the girl. The footage ended with the girl’s blushing face before it cut to an outro featuring the Journalist of the class, Alya Cesaire. Alya had said that since Marinette was writing the essay, she knew her friend wouldn’t include her own good deeds, and since Alya was in charge of the video, she’d take care of it here.

And Diana watched her daughter’s best friend proudly declare Marinette’s achievements, and her aspirations; the good she’d done, and the bad she’d prevented, or outright ended.

Bruce pretended not to notice Diana’s tears.

OOF I DID NOT MEAN TO WRITE THAT MUCH OF THAT WOW

Ok so anyway, trip to Gotham gets secured cause of all that. Master Fu will send Kaalki with Marinette as an assured countermeasure against akumas, and Diana promises she will stay in Paris while Marinette is in Gotham. This assures Marinette that between her mom, Viperion, and Ryuuko they could hold their own until she could get there.

To Gotham! YAY!

They land mid afternoon, check into the hotel, and fucking sleep. That’s it.

Next day, they have a guided tour of the Gotham Natural History museum, which is super dope, and everyone is excited; except for Chloe, because even redeemed she’s kind of a brat. I love her. Marinette meets Tim first in this one. Tim is at the Museum because as CEO of Wayne Enterprises he is donating something to the museum. They bump into each other, and she knocks him down.

Tim is kind of stunned cause this tiny pixie like girl just knocked right into him and didn’t even budge, holy shit. And Marinette is stumbling over her words as she apologizes, and helps Tim up, and wow, that is one hell of a grip for someone that size, what the fUCK. Tim is properly dismayed, but waves off her concern good naturedly, saying he shouldn’t have been standing in the middle of the hallway like an idiot; Marinette flushes brighter, insisting she should’ve been paying more attention.

And then Jason shows up, cause like damn Tim, what the hell is taking you so long?

Looks at Marinette.

Hey isn’t she a bit young for you, Drake?

(in another timeline this would probably be a fun Timinette AU, I won’t lie. hmmmmmmm…..)

Tim rolls his eyes at Jason’s antics, offering Marinette a grimace.

‘Sorry about him, he’s deplorable. Again I’m sorry for running into you’

Marinette laughs it off, shaking her head

‘I’m so sorry for knocking you down. I’ll make sure to pay more attention.’

Tim and Jason leave, Jason offering her a wide grin and a little wave; Marinette just shakes her head in amusement, and catches up with the class.

MEANWHILE, SOMEWHERE ELSE IN THE MUSEUM

Damian and Jon are hanging out; Jon has decided to come and pester him since his school, Metropolis Prep, is also invited to the seminar, and Damian likes his friend, he really does, but *god* he is suffering right now. Jon is making comments left and right, and Damian is about to lose it.

‘Ooh, am I making you mad, Wayne?’

Damian glares at his friend.

‘Stop talking. My head is killing me, and I am *this* close to killing *you*.’

Jon just laughs, and Damian rolls his eyes.

After awhile of wandering around, looking at things, they go get some lunch in the cafeteria. There’s a large group of French students taking up one of the tables, one dark haired girl standing while the others are sitting; there’s a map and a notebook spread out in front of her. Damian watches as she smiles at her classmates, writing things in the notebook, while marking things on the map.

‘Oh, that’s cool!’

Damian looks at Jon, ‘What?’ Jon grins.

‘They’re planning on what they want to see while in Gotham.’

‘How do you know?’ Jon rolls his eyes as they get some food.

‘Damian. I have super powers, idiot.’ Damian snorts.

‘Doesn’t explain your incompetence though.’

Both boys miss the wide eyed stare Marinette is giving Jon from her table.

She hadn’t MEANT to hear him, but when you can hear pretty much everything, eavesdropping is inevitable; doesn’t mean she has to like it though.

Also, wow that boy looks so much like her?? How weird.

She and the class finish planning other places they’d like to go, while Marinette turns the list of locations into Miss Bustier for her to review. They had a basic schedule set up, but their teacher had allowed them to see Gotham for what it was before finalizing things.

After lunch, their tour resumes, and Jon and Damian find themselves along the same path as Marinette’s class. They’ve moved past some of the older cultural items, and are entering the room of heroes and villains. Wax replicas of Batman, all of the Robins’, Black Bat, Batgirl, and various big name villains line the walls. Damian was on edge the entire time, not quite listening to Jon’s rambling.

And well OF COURSE something goes wrong, because you can’t have the Dupont kids go anywhere with no problems.

Two Face steps down from where his figure used to be, unloading his gun into the ceiling. He thinks he’ll have an easy time taking this French class hostage.

He is not prepared for these kids.

Alix and Kim tag team a couple of his henchmen with support from Max who has outfitted Markov with some new tech as well. Juleka (who has been tapped for the Lion Miraculous before) and Rose (who’s used the Mouse) take one down, while Ivan smashes two more henchmen together, shielding Mylene. Alya takes the knees out another one while Nino comes across his jaw with a hard left cross. Nathaniel is in front of Sabrina, shielding her when Chloe comes down hard on the henchman in front of them.

Adrien and Marinette go for Two Face, each of them a bit surprised at how the other moved.

And Damian is shocked stupid, watching this French class absolutely decimate one of Gotham’s finest rogues.

Meanwhile Jon is stuck staring at the duo. Between looking at the cute blonde boy, or the dark haired girl who is *WAY* stronger than she looks; especially if she can throw Two Face around one handed, damn.

And Marinette is more concerned with keeping her friends safe than hiding her abilities, and she probably moves too fast, and uses too much strength; her classmates buy her excuse of her extra martial arts classes outside of class.

Damian however does not.

And then the police show up, shocked to find this group of criminals subdued by a group of foreign teenagers.

The second Damian is out of the museum, losing Jon for a moment in the chaos, he calls his father.

“Why didn’t you tell me there was a meta among that French class you invited?”

Damian can practically his father shrug.

“It’s not my business to tell, Damian. Just talk to her.”

He growled as his father ended the call; the man knew something, he knew it.

And thus begins the chronicles of Damian trying to figure out WTH is going on with Marinette; which leads to friendship. Damnit.

This is where the typical getting to know you Daminette stuff will happen.. Including dates, and identity reveals.

The biggest conflict of this is honestly dealing with Superman when he finds out. Marinette has known who her father was since she was 10 years old, when she learned her mother’s identity; but Diana didn’t officially tell her until her 14th birthday, after the akuma incident.

“No more secrets, little light; I will tell you everything.” Diana had said; and she had.

Marinette is glad to have Tom, because wow her real father sounds like a dickhead.

When she officially meets Jon (Damian introduces them), she immediately realizes ‘well fuck, I have a little brother???? And he’s best friends with the boy I have a crush on, shit.’

Anyway, Superman finds out Diana had a daughter, their daughter, after the trip to Gotham concludes, and he immediately heads for Paris as Superman. He finds Diana as Wonder Woman talking to a young girl in Red with black spots, but Superman is set on speaking to Diana as he lands, and starts striding up to her.

“We need to talk.” Diana stares at him dispassionately as he walks up.

“I have nothing to say to you. Leave.”

Clark reaches out for Diana’s hand, only to have his wrist grabbed by the girl in red; who is glaring up at him fiercely. Wow her grip is tight…

“If you touch my mother, I will decimate you.”

And Clark is reeling, because holy shit, this is his daughter; his and Diana’s blood. And Clark just looks at Diana, conflicted.

“Why didn’t you tell me, Diana?” Diana shrugged.

“Telling you would not have changed the outcome. I have always wanted a child, and she is everything I need of this world. Why would I tell you?”

“Because she’s my blood too! She’s kryptonian!” And the girl growls, and then she is hovering in front of his face, blocking his view of Diana. Her eyes are a blazing blue behind her mask, and Clark realizes: she can fly.

“I may share your blood, Superman, but I am not Kryptonian; I am an Amazon. I am Ladybug. And I will not listen to you berate my mother for her choices. She told you to leave, and I can assure you, I won’t be as nice when I demand your absence.”

And Clark is just. Stunned. Because yeah, that was definitely an Amazonian level threat she just gave him; but he’s Superman, and yeah, she’s his daughter, but how strong could she be? Should he push the matter?

Clark watches as other heroes slowly appear behind the girl; One clad in orange, one in green; A fox and turtle respectively. Then there’s the one in black, green eyes narrowed at him; a feral cat, it looks like. Then there’s the one in yellow and rusty orange, a snarl marring her lips; a Bee?? Or a Hornet?? The final two are teal and red, a boy and a girl; a snake, and a… dragon?

What has his daughter been up to in Paris?

Grief swells within him, and he sighs.

“Ok, I’ll-”

Ladybug screams.

“Hello Superman, I am Hawkmoth.”

And that’ll be the final fight of this fic I think! They’ll beat akumatized Superman (batfam Zetas in to help, and so does Jon and Connor), and then Clark leads them to Hawkmoth’s base, and Gabriel is dealt with, along with Nathalie. Marinette and Adrien will both do university in America, with Adrien learning under Bruce about business along with Damian (the 2 become surprisingly good friends after a point), and Marinette accepted Audrey’s internship while she goes to school in New York. She frequently pops over to the manor to see the Batfam.

I’m gonna work on the Timinette version of this next; that ship is so adorkable and I *LOVE* it

There may also end up being a Jasonette version?? I haven’t decided yet tbh

[oldtvandcomics]

About no-homo friendships between men in the 2010′s

Ok, since I opened that can of worms with the post about Steve and Tony, here are my full thoughts about the way close male friendships have been treated in big screen adaptations in the 2010′s:

Basically, it seems to me that the creators are all conscious of how readily fans would read them as queer, and tried to prevent that by some (more or less) subtle ways that kind of result in the characters in question being less close than they were in the original. So far, I could pinpoint these tactics:

1) Everybody’s favorite Straight Female Love Interest Ex Machina. A character who in his original version didn’t have a female love interest suddenly has one. Bonus point if she was already an existing character in the original. Double bonus if BOTH men are in love with her, which would effectively make them both look more straight without you needing to add any more female characters to the story. While adding in a straight romantic subpolt is not a bad thing per se (personally, I don’t want to see it, but many people do, so eh, go on I guess), the Straight Female Love Interest Ex Machina usually feels fake because she and her relationship with the male character(s) is not enough developed.

Movies that did this include the Star Trek reboot with Spock, Kirk and Uhura, The Lone Ranger (2013) with John and Rebecca, The Green Hornet (2011) with Kato, Britt and Casey, and the MCU actually managed to do this to a canon love interest TWICE with both Steve and Sharon Carter, and Steve and Peggy.

2) "You know this really close and loving friendship that is almost legendary within the Western literally canon? They hate each other now." What it sounds like, instead of being very close friends, the two characters fight and generally barely get along. It is usually implied at the end of the movie that they make peace and kind of become friends, but you still don’t really get to see any of it. A subcategory is when the story, COMPLETELY BY ACCIDENT, is set during the one canon fallout in the friendship.

Like the Straight Female Love Interest Ex Machina this is actually surprisingly common, just think of Kirk and Spock from the Star Trek reboot, Steve and Tony from the MCU, Batman and Superman from the DC movies, John and Tonto from The Lone Ranger (2013), and even Sherlock Holmes and Dr. Watson from the RDJ movies.

3) The plot only just happens to keep said characters apart. Not only don’t they have much serious interaction, they are even barely in the same room together. It’s actually a great strategy, because it doesn’t impact the story itself and if the writing is any good, no-one will even notice unless they are keeping an eye out for it.

The MCU used this both on Steve and Tony and later on Steve and Bucky, Star Trek Beyond (2016) did it with Kirk and Spock and The Last Jedi (2017) with Finn and Poe.

4) When everything else fails, one of the two characters just... vanishes. Not completely, of course, that would be too suspicious. But he is degraded to a secondary character, kept out of the plot and off the screen and this naturally creates distance between him and his friend. It’s 3) taken to further extremes.

See what the MCU did to Bucky, to keep him and Steve apart.

Bonus 1) When the writing for the movie is just so bad that any relationship, friends or otherwise, stops working.

The Green Hornet (2011), who did try to use multiple of the tricks above on Britt and Kato, but in the end failed to achieve success with either of them. They did, however, achieve said effect by being so awfully written that not a single relationship in there feels authentic. Also The Lone Ranger (2013), who, at least to me, was so terribly racist that Tonto didn’t feel very much like an actual person, which can kind of nerf any potential ships involving him.

Bonus 2) Whatever the Heck Supernatural (2005 - 2020) is playing at, more precisely, what they have been playing at since November 2020. I know that they don’t technically fit in this list because 1) it’s a TV show, and 2) it didn’t happen in the 2010′s any more, but it’s hecking weird and I can’t get them out of my head, so here you are.

IDK, maybe I’m just always looking in the wrong direction, but I haven’t seen these patterns discussed anywhere yet. Which is weird, because they would normally fit EXACTLY in fandoms’ favorite discussions: They are about popular ships, and movies working hard on keeping people from shipping them. Which I guess leads straight to homophobia, and how it affects even straight characters and (also straight) men who identify with them.

Because look. I love shipping every single one of the friendships mentioned above, maybe not quite as much as the next girl, sometimes more, sometimes less. But I love even more seeing them as friends, the shipping is just a game for the Internet. These are, first and foremost, friendships. Very, very close and loving friendships between men, that everyone, but most of all Real Life men, would profit from seeing represented on the big screen. Instead, the studios nerfed them to... keep some people from reading it as queer? COME ON, you can do better than this!

The 2010′s has seen a lot of increased visibility of queer identities and of queer reading of media, and the creative forces behind the movie industry are still struggling to figure out what to do about this. Queerbaiting is one of the resulting trends, but the no-homoing of close male friendships is another.

I don’t really have any conclusion to this. In a way, it is necessary to define what the nature of a relationship between your characters is, and that is what all of the points listed above are there for. They are, more or less, working. On the other hand, they are FAR from perfect, and I for one think that it would be very important to find a way of conveying that a relationship is purely platonic WITHOUT making it any less close or loving than it was in the original. I’m sure that they will find a way to do that at some point in the future.

TL;DR: In the 2010′s, movies used different storytelling tricks to make the very close and loving male friendships they were adapting look less close, to keep people from reading them as gay. This resulted in the loss of the kind of close and loving male friendships that they were in the original in 2010′s media. Movies should please stop doing this and find a different way to convey to the audience that their characters aren’t romantically in love.

[lady-feste-pendragon]

so we know there’s a bunch of arthurian adaptations out there. what elements (not from any particular source) do u *have to* keep/remove from ur perfect version?

oh lord, tbh nonnie i am not the person to ask this. I’m not a scholar or anything i just have a special interest. I started answering this originally just thinking about screen adaptations but then i realized you’re just talking about adaptations in general and i had to switch gears soooo

okay these are just my tastes/opinions/observations but non-screen adaptations: you can p much do whatever you want and it’ll be good. Personally i’m not too keen on adaptations where arthur is The Bad Guy (tm) somehow. It feels really inauthentic and gimmicky. make your arthur complicated by all means--the older i get the more i Obsess over Complicated Characters--but like, doing a full one eighty and saying ‘in my adaptation arthur is the Villain’ never goes over well. unless you’re seeing this happen later on in a series and it’s part of character development, in which case that’s fascinating as heck

-also for book adaptations, for my tastes, dig into the side stories and don’t be afraid to get absurd, bc the source material is comic books basically. you can still do sweeping serious romantic epics with v little Comedy but you can also do that while keeping and adapting the silliness that goes into some of the source material. and while you can keep the sort of ‘grumpy kay, rash gawain, tragic flawless lance, flighty gwen” -esque sort of stereotypes and execute them well and the story still be Good, there’s also both a Lot of difference source-stereotypes of behavior and motivation to pick from and it’s good to mix it up. also canon is fake and you can do whatever you want if you don’t find anything you like

-Personally i like stories with a good guinevere so My Ideal Story would have guinevere as an active agent in her own life but who is also a Good Queen, or if she’s not a good queen then with good Reasons as to why someone raised as a princess wouldn’t make a good queen in whatever sort of capacity that Good and Queen are defined by in your world. you don’t Have to do the love triangle (please plEASE by my little ace heart consider noT doing the love triangle) but if you do don’t make it shallow!!! also consider: they all have two hands. just sayin i may or may not have developed a taste for poly stories in the last couple of years 

-beyond that like as far as books or audio formats or what have you i will literally read p much anything. 

-for screen adaptations it gets.......tricky. because so many of them are bad for so many reasons. and caveat i have not seen a lot of them. I mean.....yeah i have seen a Lot of them. but i also follow..................a reasonable number of arthurian blogs and i am Aware that i’ve seen only a tiny fraction of what’s actually available and even Commonly Viewed for people who get reaaaally into the legends with the kind of energy i haven’t had since like. School. (man i wish; in literally everything else i’m happy with my life circumstances in ways i can’t possibly vocalize but as far as motivation goes Take Me Back)

-i’ve just noticed that it’s apparently Extremely Difficult to actually adapt The Arthurian Legends to screen

-so in my humble opinion Stop Trying

-adapt Adaptations. adapt self contained side stories. there’s so much stuff that gets overlooked that makes for An Incredible Story that won’t be made into a movie bc it’s not part of the generic public consciousness of a king arthur story. but don’t try to adapt Arthurian Mythology bc that’s going to blow you way over budget and you’re going to need A Series Of Movies and you won’t get them and it’ll be unsatisfying for everyone involved. So don’t make epics.

-stop trying to be historically accurate or historically ‘edgy’, make more movies about side characters  with their own stories, get creative about setting and magic systems!! if you’re going to be original especially, but i can’t stress this enough, adapt adaptations. They’ve already done the work for you. 

-i know you want to know about what specific ‘elements’ need to stay the same to be good For Me, but tbh my reading is so Wildly Variable that you can Everything differently and i’ll still give it a shot, but for screen adaptations i really only require three things.

make your cast of characters either small enough that you can really dig into their stories (for side stories) or make them broad enough that you can include side characters that don’t get much screen time often while concentrating on whatever larger story you’re trying to tell

show us that you did your research even if you don’t Use it. that’s why i liked the guy ritchie hot mess so dang much and Still love it and watch it today. there are so many little hidden references and easter eggs you can tell someone on board did Research and was in a high enough position to get those little tidbits in

your arthur Has to be On Point. your arthur has to be Perfect ok. You can slub a lot of stuff but if you’re making a king arthur movie your arthur has to be Flawless. you can get away with this if you’re not focusing on arthur himself but even as a side character he needs to Inspire Something in the viewer. He needs to be Recognizably Arthur via source stuff/adaptation material sure but he also needs to be someone the audience Instantly Likes to the point of almost reverence. You need to either start at the point or get to the point in the narrative where arthur says like three sentences and you Instantly Understand why people would pledge service and loyalty to him. You Need to See Him and you need to Love Him. everything else is adaptable. 

[idreamtofmanderleyagain]

princess-nazario:

It's ok, thanks for clearing things up. See, everytime theres a post that might just be different the tumblr-fad! Version you speak or questions how tumblr might be romanticizing them theres always annoying people in the replies saying that theres a version where she wanders down the underworld herself, or that the version where shes kidnapped is...weak or a damsel in distress since it doesnt fit into tumblrs made idea of empowerment?? Its so annoying honestly. I saw this kind of stuff in a lot of posts while exploring the greek myth tag and its just... infuriating. I definitely should ignore them but it seriously makes me kind of sad and angry at the same time? The hades and persephone posts are everything(mostly tumblr-fad!) Version I reread your original post and yes I do agree, tumblr-fad! Persephone does take away a lot of the complexities and archetypes I read you examine. I think Hadestown might portray Hades and Persephone's power struggle well, it doesnt completely ignore the implications its giving off for the sake of some romance. This is what tumblr is doing and it's really annoying. By doing this and reducing the characters here to simple boxes it's taking away your interest in the myth, I think that's what you meant? I think your study of Hades/the underworld being Persephones self, cthonic meaning "spirit of nature within, inner self" while I dont fully understand that's really cool. I especially dislike how woobified and depowered he usually is in the tumblr-fad! Theres a lot you can work with him as the antagonist in a retelling I think. In fact maybe itd be great to have a retelling that explores the power struggle between Hades and Persephone and shows how Persephone gets through adversity and becomes of equal power through oppressive authority? Thatd be really cool. Tumblr-fad! Version is the twilight of myths but kind of the opposite. In twilight, the author itself romanticizes the creepiness and power struggle that might be there between Edward itself(although Bella does have a lot of agency so I think that's why it resonated so much with female readers?) while the Persephone has a various amount of versions, most versions being she was kidnapped/abduction with many meanings and metaphors and allegories to things, and tumblr-fad! Version ignores nuance in favor of their ships. Thanks for being so open and honest about this, I honestly was stressed because I thought my response maybe being immature or uninformed might be irritating or annoying. I haven't been sneaking through your blog or anything like that, I just saw your original post in the goddess demeter tag so I searched up "Persephone" on your stuff since I was curious with what else you might have to say about it. I wish Tumblr could maybe bother to learn something called not everything is entirely not THIS thing or the OTHER and maybe do something different from what Hades and Persephone coming to be known as the peak of all love stories on the website.

@princess-nazario I hope you don’t mind, I copy pasted your last reblog into a new post thread because the last one was getting massive.

I think I’m starting to understand what you’re getting at regarding the perception of victims as “weak,” and it makes a lot of sense. Thank you for clarifying regarding the “damsel in distress” trope because that’s when it clicked for me what you were talking about. I actually agree on that point, I think there is a tendency for pop feminism to kind of portray more vulnerable, sensitive or fragile women as less feminist, so I can see how you’re applying that to your views on how people on tumblr perceive the story of Hades and Persephone.

That said, I think you have a lot of different angles you’re looking at this whole thing from, and that’s great! However I think there’s so many subjects you are trying to tackle here that it seems like you are kind of are only half informed about, maybe from exploring discussions online. I think this is resulting in conclusions that are kind of confused and lacking in more solid foundations, if that makes sense. I think maybe you might benefit from exploring each element further on their own merits.

For example, did you know that there are a lot of different feminist viewpoints on Twilight itself? And not all feminists completely condemn it? In my opinion, there are a lot of things about Twilight to criticize, however there was a distinct element of hatred for the interests and desires of teenage girls involved with how people responded en masse to the Twilight phenomenon. I don’t think you were old enough to be directly familiar with all this at the time. I think a decent primer would be this video from Lindsay Ellis (tho please keep in mind that some of her most recent content is not for younger audiences). It doesn’t cover all angles of the topic, but it does give an alternative perspective in retrospect about the raging Twilight hate that swept through pop culture for a long time:

Also, there is a whole conversation to be had about the concept of “woobification,” and why that word exists, as well as how it is used in conversations about girls and women’s fantasies. The original post I made shows that I have my own frustrations when male villains and darker archetypes are whittled down to something seemingly non-threatening and “socially acceptable” myself (like...turning the beast into the prince in Disney’s Beauty and the Beast), but in my experience, people have often used the word “woobie” to describe any explorations of the vulnerability of these types of male characters when women do so because they find those men intriguing or attractive, and that can get kind of tricky because in many ways, those conversations can harbor a subtle resentment and shaming towards female fantasties, period.

I’m getting the impression that maybe there’s something about Hades and Persephone, or at least the archetypes they embody, that really intrigues you, but you’re not sure what you are supposed to think and feel about it from a feminist perspective. That’s ok, ultimately you’ll figure it out on your own. I can’t tell you what to think about the myths themselves on their own, separate from contemporary feminist media because that’s ultimately it’s own thing, and you can springboard your own perspectives and reimagining off of the original in any way that feels right to you.

 What I can do though, is leave you with some age-apropriate content that I was consuming at your age, as well as a link to a site that explores stories with similar archetypes that Persephone embodies. 

The site is called Girls Underground, and it explores and catalogues stories about girls who go on heroine’s journeys in the “Cthonic” context like I was talking about, as in exploring their own inner psyches through the experience of traversing a strange, scary, magical place. Sometimes these stories involve the trope of a spooky attractive male character who takes on an adversarial role that is sometimes also romantically charged, but not all of them do. I think the resources page may be of particular interest to you because it links to essays on subjects within this genre of storytelling. The Examples page has a ton of other stories not listed here that you can take a look at, however not all of them (but many of them!) are kid friendly.

Movies that I would recommend: 

Labyrinth (1986), which was my favorite film since early childhood, and is the reason I love these types of stories to begin with.

Legend(1985), which doesn’t depict a healthy dynamic, but is a great film and does have a big place in the general conversation about this type of storytelling.

Howl’s Moving Castle, either the book or the film. 

Pan’s Labyrinth is rated R for some gore and violence, and it has scary moments, but I think it’s fine for most teens. The character of Pan is not part of that whole “demon lover” trope because the heroine is a small child, but he takes on a similar role in terms of being a figure that embodies the underworld and thus a major part of the heroine’s psyche.

Honestly, I would consider Disney’s Beauty and the Beast (the original, not the live action remake) a good rendition. It was written by a woman.

Jean Cocteau’s black and white La Belle et La Bete.

Jane Eyre by Charlotte Bronte, or a film adaptation of the same.

Rebecca by Daphne DuMarier, which is what my username is from. I’m fond of the Hitchcock film adaptation.

Honestly, the 2004 adaptation of Phantom of the Opera is...flawed, but it was my introduction to Phantom, and it’s a lot of melodramatic fun. 

It’s worth noting that in a lot of these stories, there are not perfect, healthy relationships depicted between men and women. There is cruelty, there is harm. But in many cases, that does not mean these stories have nothing to say about relationships between men and women, nor does it say that they are solely tales about abuse and we cannot find romanticism within them. Each story has it’s own flaws, it’s own strengths, hold deeper meanings beyond the surface. They contribute something distinct to a rich history of artistic explorations of the dynamics of power in romance and the female experience with our own desires within a patriarchal society.

[homespork-review]

HOMESPORK ACT 5 ACT 1: Mobius Double Plusungood, Part 3

TW: """funny""" sexual and physical assault of a child by another child, extreme bullying, extreme ableism, a very brief discussion of shipping characters outside their canon sexuality.

CHEL: We get some implications of the part of troll culture we ended on last time when a slightly baffled-looking Nepeta, watching through the viewport, updates her SHIPPING WALL. Instead of hearts, some of the hypothetical pairings she’s painted are marked with diamonds. What this means will be explained shortly.

I can’t help but feel it’s slightly creepy to hypothetically matchmake your own friends, but I’m pretty sure the other trolls know at least that the shipping wall exists if not exactly which ships they’re in, and they do live in a society in which it’s stated later that mating is mandatory, so it would indeed be helpful to have at least emergency-doable matchmaking done well in advance and they might appreciate the help.

I’d like to take a moment to note a ship at the bottom row, left of centre; GA/Tavros. Hussie, on his Formspring, later said that GA was “obviously” a lesbian, or anyway was only interested in women, which doesn’t have a specific term for it in troll culture. It’s actually hard to tell going by what’s shown in canon, because she only displays specific interest in girls except for in a complicated case we’ll discuss later, but trolls are supposed to be bi-normative, plus it’s not like the male selection here is particularly inspiring, so, yeah, the evidence we actually see isn't conclusively "obvious". The fandom, knowing this, systematically harass anyone who even muses vaguely about the possibility of shipping her with a boy, even if they don't know about that Word of God. This is why I’m wondering whether the trolls knew about the shipping wall, because if they did, we can presume GA didn’t care. For the record, I’m sex-repulsed ace and have in fact written about.my own imaginary persona fucking (admittedly fucking an opposite sex clone of herself, it was a complicated injoke) and my reaction to someone else writing it would depend on context and reason, so I can imagine her reacting similarly, but not everyone would. A similar thing with a canonically gay male character explicitly on-screen not caring about hypothetical shipping of himself with girls comes up much later; he’s not a troll, but his upbringing was troll-influenced (long story).

BRIGHT: Harassing people over the ships they make content for always baffles me. It’s not like fanart/fanfic for a ship which contradicts canon has any effect on the canon, and playing around with character dynamics (often in a pornographic manner) is a major part of fanfic.

CHEL: On top of all this, gender and sexuality are really shaky concepts to even try to apply to a species which reproduces hermaphroditically. On this side of the fourth wall it’s obviously because Hussie is a not-very-reflective cisgender heterosexual man, and didn’t think about it any further than “girls wear skirts, right?” Plenty of people fanwank up possibilities for how it could happen on the other side. I think we may have to make a “What The Fuck Is Alternian Biology And Sociology” post or two separate from the sporking at the very end.

Discourse discussion over! Next page, we see some of the relevant terminology used in troll culture, though we still don’t get any explanation of what any of the words actually mean, which is a tad annoying for new readers. The context is a discussion between Karkat and Vriska about getting her into the game.

BRIGHT: Specifically, Karkat wants Vriska to get Tavros into the game, leading to this exchange…

CG: WHY DO YOU EVEN HATE HIM, IT'S FUCKING RIDICULOUS. CG: IF ANYTHING YOU SHOULD PITY HIM. CG: ESPECIALLY SINCE YOU WERE THE ONE WHO PARALYZED HIM. AG: I know. I don't really understand it. AG: It's just a really special kind of h8! It never goes away and it doesn't make a lot of sense. CG: THIS IS KIND OF A WEIRD TIME TO BE CONFIDING IN ME ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS OF BLACK ROMANCE BUT OK. AG: Oh god, what? CG: I MEAN IF YOU'RE REALLY IMPLYING TAVROS IS YOUR KISMESIS I THINK YOU'RE BRAYING UP THE WRONG FROND NUB. CG: BOTH PARTIES HAVE TO HATE EACH OTHER EQUALLY, I MEAN LIKE TRUE HATE. CG: MAYBE YOUR FEELINGS COME SOMEWHAT CLOSE TO FITTING THE BILL BUT I DON'T THINK HE CAN HATE ANYONE, IT'S WEIRD, HE'S KIND OF BROKEN IN THE HEAD.

Finally, our long-awaited introduction to troll romance!

And the introduction is an effective one. We now know that there’s something called ‘black romance’, that it concerns hate, and that one’s black-romantic partner is a ‘kismesis’. The conversation also flows naturally and fits the characters having it, rather than being an awkward as-you-know infodump, although brace yourselves, there’s one of those coming up. Thirteen is about right for kids starting to have romantic feelings and being confused about it, not wanting to talk about it is pretty normal, and Karkat lecturing people at a good opportunity is absolutely in character.

Karkat goes on to lecture Vriska about the emotions involved in different sorts of romantic relationships, and wow, it really says a lot about troll culture…

CG: OK, MOST PEOPLE WHO HAVEN'T HAD THEIR LOBE STEM CAUTERIZED ARE CAPABLE OF FEELING THE TWO PRIMARY EMOTIONS, HATE AND PITY. CG: PITY IS OF COURSE JUST THE TONED DOWN VERSION OF THE CENTRAL EMOTION, HATE. CG: AND ALL THE NUANCES OF PITY MANIFEST AS VARIOUS OTHER KINDS OF FEELINGS LIKE WHATEVER CHEMICAL REACTIONS TRIGGER MATING FONDNESS OR THE MYSTERIOUS FORCES THAT ARE BEHIND MOIRALLEGIANCE.

CHEL: It’s never really clear if this is just Karkat’s idea of it or if this is how trolls actually work biologically. Trolls do use the word “love” later on, so I always interpreted it as “pity” being a euphemistic term because “love” in such a warlike and oppressive culture could be exploited as a weakness. Fandom has played it with their love actually being based on a weird form of sympathy/seeing the other as needing protection, which is also plausible.

FAILURE ARTIST: I have played with the pity thing before but in retrospect Karkat is the only one who seems to see it that way. Maybe this is all his fake deep teenager view of romance.

BRIGHT: Vriska makes a performance of how bored she is, but Karkat’s on a roll.

CG: A WELL BALANCED PERSON IS IS GOING TO HAVE A GOOD DISTRIBUTION BETWEEN HATE AND THE VARIOUS PITY HUMORS. CG: HAVING A GOOD BALANCE KEEPS ALL THE EMOTIONS SHARPER, SEE I THINK THAT'S YOUR PROBLEM. AG: Oh???????? AG: I hope you know I already wore out some good note-taking pens today. All the pens. AG: All of them. CG: SEE, MY HATE IS LIKE A FINELY TUNED INSTRUMENT BECAUSE I'M AWARE OF THESE PRINCIPLES. CG: I COULD HATE A HOLE IN PARADOX SPACE ITSELF, STRAIGHT THROUGH TO A NEW REALITY FRESH FOR THE HATING. AG: Hahahahahahahaha, you don't even know how much I'm laughing at this. CG: BUT SEE, YOU'RE TOO HEAVY ON THE HATE SIDE, OR AT LEAST YOU PRETEND TO BE WHICH IS MAYBE WORSE. AG: You aren't reading anything I say are you? You just want to talk and talk and talk. CG: AND YOU THINK YOU'RE HATING UP EVERYONE HARD WHEN YOU'RE REALLY JUST BURNING OUT THAT ENTIRE EMOTIONAL HEMISPHERE. CG: IT'S LIKE LUKEWARM HATE. PRETENDER'S HATE, WITH NO COUNTERPOINT AT ALL. CG: AS SUCH THERE'S NO REAL SUBSTANCE TO YOUR HATE, IT'S LIKE A CARDBOARD MOVIE PROP. CG: WHICH IS WHY YOUR BRAIN IS BROKEN, KIND OF LIKE TAVROS'S BUT ON THE OPPOSITE HEMISPHERE I GUESS. CG: OR MAYBE YOUR BROKEN BRAIN LED TO THE IMBALANCE IN THE FIRST PLACE, I DON'T KNOW. CG: WHATEVER THE CASE IS, YOU'RE KIND OF EMOTIONALLY SCREWED, SORRY TO SAY. CG: YOUR HATE'S TOO DULL FOR A PROPER KISMESIS, IN MY OPINION. CG: AND I DON'T SEE ANYONE CHOMPING AT THE BIT TO BE YOUR MOIRAIL HONESTLY, UNLESS THERE'S SOMEONE OUT THERE WHO WOULD ACTUALLY BOTHER PITYING YOU. CG: AND LANDING A MATESPRIT? HAHAHAHA! CG: SERIOUSLY, LIKE THAT WOULD EVEN INTEREST YOU. CG: BASICALLY ANY FEATURE OF YOUR EMOTIONAL PROFILE THAT USUALLY MAKES SOMEONE VIABLE IN THE REDROM DEPARTMENT MUST BE TOTALLY FRIED. CG: YOUR BLACKROM POTENTIAL'S PROBABLY TOAST TOO.

Whew.

So now we have ‘kismesis’, ‘moirail’, and ‘matesprit’ as terms for romantic partners, as well as the concepts of black romance, red romance, and ‘moirallegiance’ as the relationship one has with a moirail. Troll romance is not going to get any less confusing for a while.

If Karkat’s grasp of psychology strikes you as amateurish, there’s a reason for that: He gets all his knowledge from romance movies.

AG: Hey asshole, stop watching movies for girls.

I think that’s another strike against the ‘girls are the dangerous ones on Alternia’ argument. Romance movies, per this exchange, are both female-coded and seen as inferior -- Karkat defends his viewing choices by saying they’re INTRIGUING SOCIOLOGICALLY, but Vriska isn’t buying it.

CLOCKWORK PROBLEMATYKKS: 42 WHITE SBURB POSTMODERNISM: 33

CHEL: I’m not sure an interest in the workings of romance should be a socially gendered thing in a society where, as it turns out, you have to have an acceptable romantic partner by a certain time or die. You’d think most kids would be trying as hard as they could to learn and put into practice everything they could about it, and you’d also think there’d be better information for them than romcoms.

BRIGHT: Has the mate-or-die part come up yet? I’m not sure when Hussie thought of it.

CHEL: I don’t know if he’d thought of it yet, but it does come up very soon.

BRIGHT: Karkat then moves on to the original reason he contacted Vriska -- he needs her and her mind powers in the game, because he’s just run into a double agent called Jack.

Over on the next panel, Karkat is still talking to Vriska, but he’s glancing back over his shoulder at Jack Noir. His hand is covered in blood, which keeps cycling through a range of colours. The blood, it transpires, is because Jack stabbed him. Karkat is amazingly calm about this.

CG: HE'S COOL, IT'S FINE I DON'T REALLY MIND THE STABBING, IT WAS ALL A MISUNDERSTANDING. CG: WELL OK I'M PRETTY SURE HE MEANT TO STAB ME. CG: BUT I KIND OF THINK THAT'S LIKE CG: THE WAY HE GREETS PEOPLE? AG: This game is so stupid. CG: IN ANY CASE I THINK HE'S PROBABLY ALL STABBED OUT.

This would be ridiculously chill even from someone who isn’t extremely cagey about his blood colour -- and it’s not that Karkat suddenly doesn’t care any more, because as soon as Vriska says she’ll ask Terezi or Jack what colour he’s bleeding, he tells her that he’s out of Terezi’s range, Jack is sworn to secrecy, and Sollux (who’s incommunicado) is the only one who knows how to make Trollian’s viewport feature work. (Given we saw how easy it is to use earlier, I’m surprised Vriska doesn’t try to figure it out herself.)

Over on the next panel, the viewer is now Jack, a few minutes prior to this conversation. Contrary to Karkat’s protestations, Jack stabs him because He's got a pretty sharp tongue and can't seem to keep it sheathed. He is curious when Karkat cares less about the wound and more about Jack seeing his blood colour, which is apparently some freakish mutation. Jack looks at his knife…

CHEL: While it’s not a realistic depiction of the colour, recall that this is the shade of red used in-comic to depict human blood. This reveal probably isn’t a surprise to anyone by now, if you’ve encountered fanart, and honestly it wasn’t a huge mindblowing revelation on my first read before I knew, but I do think it’s a clever little “aha, THAT’S why!” moment. Skilfully done.

It seems he's the only one of his kind with this mutant candy-red blood. An outcast. He thinks he was put on this planet covered in an ocean of his own blood to be taunted. Punished for something. Saddest story you ever heard. Got to do something to shut him up.

BRIGHT: Awww. That’s kind of sweet.

This little interchange gave rise to the ‘Stabdads’ fandom phenomenon, where Spades Slick is envisaged as Karkat’s father-figure. In Homestuck canon, it’s dubious how much affection Slick has for Karkat. He seems more irritated by him than anything else, but that’s about on par for how he treats the rest of the Midnight Crew. On the other hand, it clearly makes a massive impact on Karkat. We’ve seen how important blood colour is on Alternia and how insecure he is about his own; his sudden rush of fellow-feeling towards Jack is understandable, even if it does make him way too forgiving about having been stabbed.

CHEL: Karkat and Jack shake hands, and proceed to be in cahoots. Cahoooooooots. Doodling on the defaced parking ticket from earlier, they draft OPERATION REGISURP.

Your whole team executes the plan along the course of its journey, employing espionage, mind control tactics, political sabotage, vicious interrogations and cold blooded assassinations. Everyone does their part and you begin to learn the true meaning of teamwork, as well as this troll disease called friendship.

Yeah, it actually happening is skipped over with one paragraph, but that’s probably a good thing with all the complexity already going on, and we do hear more details about it. First, we’re reminded of the existence and functions of the Queens’ Rings, the magic rings the queens of Derse and Prospit have which give them traits and powers from whatever the players put in their sprites. The trolls have put their lusii in their sprites, except for Aradia, whose lusus died long ago, so she got in the sprite herself. The Queen could put up with getting bits and pieces from eleven hideous monsters (well, ten hideous monsters and one adowable little fairybull thing oh my gosh it’s cuuuute) tacked onto her, but what she absolutely won’t stand for is the other thing Aradia put in her sprite…

She could not stand bearing the visage of the most loathsome creature known to existence. So vile is its appearance, so contemptible its purpose, all depictions of the creature let alone members of its population are permanently banned from any jurisdiction in the reach of her agents. Those of its kind go by many names, and so does the reviled patron god they herald - THE GREAT DETESTATION, KING PONDSQUATTER, SPEAKER OF THE VAST JOKE, or most commonly, BILIOUS SLICK.

Recall that AR thought of the hieroglyphs in the Frog Temple as “illegal pictography”. We’ll find out later why the Black Queen has such a revulsion for frogs, it’s important. But the important part right now is that she took the ring off. At the time of planning it’s in the ROYAL VAULT.

We briefly see a moment in the future of the Black Queen wrapped in rags, just like the human sessions’ White Queen, wandering the desert as the BANISHED QUASIROYAL, and the caption notes the plan was a success.

However, Doc Scratch appears in the desert in front of her, and it’s noted she was given a new purpose. This, it seems, is the origin of Snowman.

FAILURE ARTIST: I would like if there was some canon Homestuck material expanding on this REGISURP plot.

BRIGHT: Same! It sounds really interesting. One example of Homestuck’s idiosyncratic pacing, I suppose -- we spend pages and pages on trivial alchimeter nonsense, but skip over something more meaty.

CHEL: The Red Team work on that, while the Blue Team battle their own session… or so they think. Yeah, I’m sure you’ve all already figured it out, but the trolls hadn’t just yet. They note that their prototypes are affecting the opposite team’s underlings, and the readers are shown Alternia’s two Frog Temples, one near Aradia’s home and the other near Kanaya’s, each with six pillars outside (one seems to have five, but the sixth is hidden behind the building). Superimposed on each other, the pillars make a full ring of twelve.

The truth was it had always been the same session all along. That your teams were not competing, but cooperating toward a common goal. In the more drawn out form of this adventure's narrative, figuring this out would have been a huge deal. We would have been completely blown away by this stunning revelation. Wow. Same session all along. Really? Huh.

This is what Aradia’s been so mysterious about. She knew. We’re provided with a handy diagram, in case we haven’t been able to keep up.

After watching the phrases MOBIUS DOUBLE and REACH AROUND toggle for a few minutes while in a sort of stupor, you finally snap out of it.

(I just noticed, the Blue Team are the Derse dreamers and the Red Team are the Prospit dreamers. Neat!)

The reader’s attention is drawn instead to the Aquarius and Pisces symbols in the top left, belonging to characters we haven’t met yet, and the narration promises we’ll learn about them soon. Drawing attention again to GA’s Virgo symbol, the narration muses about her.

It will probably be quite some time before you get to be her. It could very well be pages and pages and pages.

Naturally, we jump right back to her.

GA’s intro is long, so we’ll take it piece by piece.

Your name is KANAYA MARYAM.

The Sanskrit name for Virgo is “Kanya”, and it’s also the name of a town in Japan. “Maryam” is the Arabic version of “Mary”, as in Jesus’ mother. It may also be a reference to Marya Zaleska, the title character of the movie “Dracula’s Daughter”.

You are one of the few of your kind who can withstand the BLISTERING ALTERNIAN SUN, and perhaps the only who enjoys the feel of its rays. As such, you are one of the few of your kind who has taken a shining to LANDSCAPING. You have cultivated a lush oasis around your hive, and in particular, you have honed your craft through the art of TOPIARY, sculpting your trees to match the PUFFY ORACLES from your dreams. You have embraced the tool of this trade, which conveniently is the weapon of choice for those who would hunt the HEINOUS BROODS OF THE UNDEAD which crawl from the sand at sunrise to feast on the light and the living.

Couple things established here; trolls are not only nocturnal but actively harmed by their planet’s sun, and undead beings other than ghosts exist. Said traditional weapon for hunting them is a chainsaw, which we can see lying against her bookshelf, a reference to the Evil Dead movies.

It would be convenient if you actually hunted them, but it is of course far too dangerous, every bit as suicidal as attempting to poach the terrible MUSCLEBEASTS who roam at night. So you indulge in your bright fascination with the grim through literature. Just before the sun goes down and you join your flora in rest, you immerse yourself in tales of RAINBOW DRINKERS and SHADOW DROPPERS and FORBIDDEN PASSION.

Rainbow drinkers are, as discussed later on, troll vampires. I don’t think shadow droppers are ever expanded on, but they might be zombies or werebeasts. Troll goths, apparently, are the reverse of human goths, dressing in bright colours and staying up in the daytime, which makes sense for a species who can only safely go out at night.

You are one of the few of your kind with JADE GREEN BLOOD. As such you are one of the few who could be selected and raised by a VIRGIN MOTHER GRUB, an event so rare as to elude documented precedent. She would defend you from desert threats, and though her life would be short, in time you would assure her of progeny.

Recall that the Mother Grub is required for troll reproduction.

You are a SEAMSTRESS or a RAGRIPPER or a TREETRIMMER or a LUMBERJACK, whichever you care to be, and your unique hive is equipped with a great supply of advanced technology to accommodate your interests. The technology and indeed the hive itself were all recovered from the ruins nearby when you were very young. The seed of your hive was deployed on the volcanic rocks beneath the sand with the assistance of your lusus and her remarkable burrowing skills, and you have lived there happily together since. You know the ruins and the hive and everything here that is not sand and rock originated from the world of your dreams. You also know that one day you will visit this world while you are awake. That day is today.

Like Jade, Kanaya has been awake on Prospit for years, and the technology in question is Skaian in origin, so that’s how she knows what’s going on with the game.

Kanaya is prompted to equip her chainsaw, which promptly turns into a lipstick in a Problem Sleuth reference. Like Jade, she has a Wardrobifier, set to randomise, which suddenly turns her black shirt and red skirt into a red leaf-print dress. She takes out the lipstick.

You can choose between your trademark jade or black. Even though a troll's lips are naturally black. But they can always be blacker, and a lady with a true sense of style knows this.

She goes with green, her dress turns into a blue kimono, and she’s messaged by someone with a fuschia Pisces symbol. This person, named cuttlefishCuller, turns out to be rather excitable, greeting her in all caps and following it up with Glub glub glub glub glub!

BRIGHT: This conversation is pretty sweet, with some friendly joking about CC’s quirk (they stick hyphens in front of their capital Es) and mention of their Collapsing And Expanding Bladder Based Aquatic Vascular System. There’s another mention of moirails, with CC saying they’ll have to join the game late to keep an eye on theirs.

It also turns out both CC and Kanaya are having some premonitions of what’s to come! Kanaya is seeing visions in the clouds of Skaia, the same way Jade does, but CC hears whispers from a mysterious ‘she’ who needs her voice keeping down. It’s implied to be CC’s lusus, as both Kanaya and CC are aware their lusii are going to die soon.

Kanaya hopes to be with her lusus as she dies, but looks out of the window to find the Virgin Mother Grub has already passed away, apparently of natural causes.

CHEL: The Mother Grub was seen briefly before; it’s a moth-like creature with a huge fat body the size of a bus, with wings too small to ever lift it, horns the same shape as Kanaya’s, and a skull-like head with big lips. The skull on Terezi’s Doomsday Scale was, we can tell now, a Mother Grub, except quite a lot bigger - presumably a breeding Grub.

BRIGHT: Kanaya changes back into her original outfit, and goes down to live up to her end of the bargain… which entails slicing a hole in her lusus with her chainsaw and pulling out a round object covered in spikes the colour of trolls’ horns, called a Matriorb. Kanaya stores it in her sylladex; she’s using a CHASTITY MODUS, which locks each card away, and the key will serendipitously be discovered when it’s time for the card to be unlocked. These modii are getting more and more esoteric.

Kanaya proceeds to have a conversation with her own moirail, Vriska, which we already read earlier.

You then proceed to have the rest of this conversation we already read, bugging and fussing and meddling through the special and magical union one can only describe as being in moirallegiance with another. At least, you guess that's how you would describe it. Maybe. Troll romance sure is confusing!

Yes, yes it is. (Spoiler: It’s not that confusing once it’s explained.)

Kanaya doesn’t have long to dwell on the conversation, as she’s contacted by caligulasAquarium, someone with a violet Aquarius symbol who she doesn’t seem to think highly of. It rapidly becomes apparent why.

CA: kan make her talk to me do somethin GA: Who CA: your no good connivvin fuckin backstabbin girl crush thats wwho

CHEL: Trolls are supposed to come bi/pan as standard, so why does he need to specify “girl crush”? I wonder if Hussie hadn’t decided that yet when he wrote this part, but I’m not sure.

WHITE SBURB POSTMODERNISM: 34

CA’s gender hasn’t been revealed, but let’s not kid ourselves, we know from how he’s talking that he’s a dude. Nice Girls certainly exist but they don’t tend to get portrayed as so whiny in fiction, plus CC comes off as very girly, and that leaves us with six boy and six girl trolls. Balance and opposites and counterparts are a running theme throughout Homestuck. Not that there can’t be nonbinary characters, as some show up in Hiveswap; just that there would most likely have to be an even number of them, split evenly between the groups of players. Fine by me as a nonbinary person with a thing for balance and even numbers of my own.

Also, note that we’ve seen this guy, or at least his hand and foot, before. This is the litter-hater in the bowling shoes.

GA: Overstating Our Relationship Wont Make Me Feel Very Cooperative GA: Its Paler Red Than That Ok CA: pshhhhhh that is a fuckin laugh and you knoww it evveryone does CA: so help me out tell her to talk to me i think she blocked me you got to GA: Why Do I Got To GA: I Dont Got To And Every Time You Take My Help For Granted I Feel Like I Got To A Little Less CA: wwhatEVVER you are so the vvillage twwo wwheel devvice wwhen it comes to auspisticing CA: you cant let a grudge go by you wwont stick your busy stem betwwixt so get wwith the program fussyfangs

BRIGHT: Oh hey, another troll romance term! ‘Auspisticing’ is the last of the lot, don’t worry.

CA: wwho givves a shit wwhy she blocked me or about my fuckin manners come on youvve got a wway wwith her CA: i figure if youre going to auspisticize any twwo brinesuckers wwho sneer at each other a funny wway you might as wwell make it official and be ours right GA: Your Black Solicitation Just Seems Really Indecent

Funny words aside, Hussie does a good job at laying down context for what auspisticism is here; we now know that it involves mediating between two parties who dislike each other and that it’s a form of black romance. Meshing worldbuilding naturally into the dialogue is something Homestuck does really well at times.

Anyway, CA is trying to get in contact with Vriska because he asked her to make something for him and now she’s blowing him off.

GA: What Is It CA: kan stupid wwhat do you think its a fuckin gizmo to bloww up the wworld or somethin CA: ok wwell not that obvviously CA: but somethin thatll kill all land dwwellers wwhat else wwould i be after GA: Can You Just For A Moment Entertain The Thoughts Of One Untouched By Megalomaniacal Derangement And Tell Me Why Id Want To Assist You With That CA: wwell CA: im not goin to vvery wwell kill you am i that wwould be fuckin unconscionable CA: wwhat kind of friend wwould i be

While CA is obviously a douche, there’s something funny about how over-the-top he is about it and how utterly oblivious he is to the idea that Kanaya might have a problem with a device that would kill all landdwellers, although the humour is inversely proportionate to how likely he is to pull it off.

CHEL: Maybe I’m strange, but I think he’s adorable. I get the impression of a small kid trying to puff himself up to adult size.

BRIGHT: There’s also more romance talk, and this next bit is one I find interesting:

CA: you could either play along as our auspistice and do a little mediating like you wwere fuckin hatched to CA: or wwatch she and me devvolvve into fuckin full fledged kismesisses the kind like you dont get once in ten thousand swweeps CA: you knoww thats wwhat it wwould be there wwould be rainboww rivvers runnin through star systems and all nebulizin like liquid firewworks CA: it wwill be beautiful and heartbreaking all at once CA: you should read up on your history instead of poring through that godawwfull sunny rubbish

I’m going to take a step back from Homestuck itself for a moment and talk about kismessitude as it’s portrayed in fandom. People tend to envision it in a variety of ways -- some see it as a BDSM relationship, some as a way of pushing a rival to be better, some as just straight-up hate-sex -- but most depictions show it as something that only affects the two people involved.

Here, though? CA’s talking about kismessitude as something that’s potentially really damn dangerous, to other people besides those involved, and cites history as a backup -- implying it can really be that dangerous, and it’s not just a teenager’s flight of fancy. (Although, that said, CA is clearly using this to try and get Kanaya in a relationship with him, so how sincere he is is questionable.)

CHEL: Later on we do see a little bit of one of the historical cases he might have been citing. We’ll discuss it more then. Also, I do like him saying “sunny” instead of “gloomy”. Makes sense!

Kanaya tells CA none of this matters, and he sneers about the “purity of the bloodline”. That’s an… uncomfortable turn of phrase, especially since he’s speaking to someone not covered by the “purity” standard, but since it applies to aliens and it’s in a society where that’s hammered into its inhabitants it’s not a Problematykks issue. Kanaya tells him it still won’t matter because their race will be wiped out entirely, and his reaction is remarkably understated:

CA: huh CA: wwell ok HURRY UP AND DO NOTHING: 11

CA says he knows Kanaya doesn’t lie except to herself, surprisingly perceptive for one so puffed-up otherwise. CA might be smarter than he’s letting on? He asks if her clouds told her that; that was the reader’s assumption too, but she says no, she has a different source. Uh-oh. We know what the last source of information was, and it cost Vriska an arm and an eye-sevenfold. CA’s own clouds “hide nothin but misfortune and monstrosities”, so we can guess she’s Prospit and he’s Derse. He goes back to nagging her to tell Vriska to talk to him, and when she continues to refuse he poutily steps off.

CA: you dont wwant to be our auspistice cause you dont wwant to get locked into that sort of relation wwith her i can respect that

Kanaya denies this, and CA says everyone knows, including Karkat.

GA: Its Unbelievable GA: Her Patience CA: wwhat CA: wwhoa wwait wwho GA: Never Mind CA: ok wwait did she talk to you today CA: wwhat did she say CA: or glub or wwhatevver

They’re talking about CC, if it wasn’t clear. Kanaya, in a callback to John’s comment to Terezi, facetiously tells him that she talked about Longing To Touch You Indiscretely and That Shes Basically In The Scarlet Throes For You. CA, flustered, picks up that she’s teasing him, and she tells him the truth, that CC’s just concerned as a moirail.

CA: if youre not savvvvy about howw you define yourself to people CA: you can just splash into the moirail zone before you knoww wwhich wways upwward

I’m going to comment on this attitude in a bit more detail when we get a clearer explanation of what moirallegiance actually is. CA leaves her with some arc words.

CA: being a kid and growwing up CA: its hard and nobody understands

Kanaya heads back to her room, planning to emphatically not meddle but help her friends, and consults her source; it’s fortunately not a Doc Scratch-related one at all. It is, in fact, Rose’s long-forgotten GameFAQ, saved on a server floating in the Furthest Ring, to which Prospit’s clouds directed her. I have to show you the panel for a moment though…

I’m sure there was a way we could see the screen without having it facing away from Kanaya who’s supposed to be reading it.

You can only assume this took place a long time ago. This race is likely ancient, preceding yours by millions of sweeps. Maybe billions! You like to try to imagine the adventures of these players. Were they successful in repopulating their race? Did they manage to protect their matriorb and hatch a new mother grub? Could they hold it together, or were they torn apart by the complex social dynamics, the matespritships and moirallegiences and auspisticisms and kismesissitudes that will surely plague your group along the way? You have little doubt they succeeded with flying colors.

Oh dear, dramatic irony. Kanaya fantasises about a troll version of Rose, thinking she must have been the leader of this supposedly long-ago group.

And yet they appear to have been the only of their kind to have risen to the challenge in a session stacked heavily against them.

Huh. So is this just because Kanaya can’t find more information, or are the four kids in fact the only humans who successfully got into the game? Picking four specifically white-coded kids to be the last of the human race due to supposedly their own competence is… not a good choice. And why the hell couldn’t other people succeed? This strikes me as more of the whole theme of “nobody matters except the people we’re focusing on”. A good lampshading of video game tropes, but in a literary story, that’s the opposite message to everything I’ve ever read, and it’s a creepy one.

CLOCKWORK PROBLEMATYKKS: 43 HURRY UP AND DO NOTHING: 12 WHITE SBURB POSTMODERNISM: 35

BRIGHT: I thiiiiiiiink it’s at least implied later on that there are other sessions going, it’s just that each session is a closed loop of players so we don’t see the others...although if that’s the case, does that mean Earth’s getting hit with meteors from multiple Skaias?

CHEL: That over with for the moment, we cut to Tavros’ house as you take your place as the PAGE OF BREATH in the LAND OF SAND AND ZEPHYR. Vriska, his server player, gets down to the business of building up his house towards the Gate…

… entirely out of staircases.

AT: i THINK THIS, iS, AT: pROBABLY MEANT TO ANTAGONIZE ME,

Okay, this probably makes me a bad person, but I’m crying with laughter at his expression and that line.

It’s more disability slapstick, but here the point of the joke comes off as being more that Vriska is a jerk and Tavros’ reaction is really understated than any reasonable person being supposed to assume Tavros is wrong for not being able to climb stairs. Emphasis on “comes off as”, unfortunately. I’m still gonna give a Problematykks point, and further experience with Hussie’s attitude to disability has soured the joke somewhat, even in just the next couple of pages.

CLOCKWORK PROBLEMATYKKS: 44

BRIGHT: Vriska tries to get Tavros to crawl up the stairs, first by telling him that he promised not to be boring anymore and then by saying that she’s trying to help him get stronger. She caps off the rant by demanding that he apologise.

AT: oKAY, AT: tHANKS, i GUESS, AT: bUT, AT: sORRY FOR WHAT, AG: For 8eing crippled, you ass! AT: yOU WANT ME TO APOLOGIZE, AT: fOR BEING PARALYZED, AG: Yes. AG: Say you're sorry. AT: i DON'T MEAN TO BE RUDE, oR bORING, AT: bUT THAT'S RIDICULOUS, gIVEN, AT: uH, tHE CIRCUMSTANCES, AG: 8ullshit! AG: It's something called 8asic decency and civility you fudge8looded 8oor. AG: Now get down on your useless wo88ly knees and apologize. AT: nO, i DON'T WANT TO, AG: >::::O

Vriska, what the fuck.

Tavros is really great here. He’s obviously not comfortable fighting with Vriska, and repeatedly tries to redirect her into building him ramps instead of engaging. But, at the same time, he holds his ground and doesn’t let her push him around, and won’t let go of solid hard reality in the face of Vriska trying to emotionally manipulate him.

FAILURE ARTIST: And yet people still call him a wimp.

BRIGHT: Vriska retaliates, because of course she does, by grabbing his wheelchair with her cursor and shaking it about. If Hussie left it at that, everything would be unobjectionable, at least in terms of narrative voice. Instead, well…

Now she's done it. She has awoken the mighty inner fury that is... RUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUFIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

CHEL: It just occurred to me to mention that the name Rufio comes from a character in the movie Hook, the leader of the Lost Boys after Peter Pan left, played by Dante Basco. Tavros’ mental image of him is a reference to that character.

FAILURE ARTIST: Dante Basco did read Homestuck, with hilarious results as we will see.

But unfortunately, Rufio is not real. He's imaginary. A fake. Like a made up friend, the way fairies are. You continue to be sad and alone.

BRIGHT: Eurgh.

Let me be clear: Tavros having no further recourse to deal with Vriska’s abuse beyond his visualised self-esteem is a problem for the character, but it’s not necessarily a narrative problem per se. Escapism is a thing. You could get a decent character arc out of Tavros learning better ways to deal with harassment he can’t escape. It is a narrative problem when the narrator mocks it and makes him out to be pathetic for even trying it.

CHEL: I’d consider this to be just Tavros’ own thought process, but, sadly, this kind of narrative sneering at him carries on throughout Tavros’ presence in the comic and the fandom seems to buy into it. Tavros gets a lot of hate for reasons which mostly boil down to him being a male abuse victim; there’s a feeling that he should “try harder” to fight back, despite him being physically disabled and a member of a caste out of sight beneath her on the social ladder and legally permitted to be killed by her on a whim. Might that count as a point for WHITE SBURB POSTMODERNISM, for Huss and the fandom not taking the social dynamics into account for why Tavros can’t defend himself?

BRIGHT: I don’t know if it’s fair to count against the fandom when we’re reviewing Homestuck proper, but we can definitely count against Hussie!

WHITE SBURB POSTMODERNISM: 36

CHEL: It’s also notable that the common fandom interpretation of Tavros is as Hispanic-coded, at least partly due to his Spanish username, and of Vriska as white-coded. That’s probably not helping.

Since Hussie appears to expect us to agree with Vriska that this is funny, I’m adding another to these as well.

ALL THE LUCK: 2 CLOCKWORK PROBLEMATYKKS: 45 IN HATE WITH MY CREATION: 3

BRIGHT: What’s weird about this whole mess is that Hussie doesn’t — yet — try to say that Tavros should be trying to get stronger; his disability is fully acknowledged. I feel like this kind of mockery is usually accompanied by the attitude that disabled people should just get over their disability, but Hussie’s clear that Tavros can’t. Which means he should do...what, exactly?

CHEL: Not have let Vriska disable him in the first place, presumably. Never mind that, you know, she has mind control powers so he didn’t really have a choice in that either. That is, however, an argument Vriska fans actually make. Apparently some of them actually blame him for not flying when she threw him off the cliff, which… well, unpowered flight is a thing that can happen in the comic but he certainly couldn’t do it then.

BRIGHT: ...Apparently I retain the capacity for surprise at how awful people can be. The fuck?

Back in the comic, Tavros fortunately does have one other means of recourse. Back in her hive, Vriska is suddenly prodded in the back with a flying toilet, courtesy of Kanaya.

GA: Just Presenting A Floating Reminder That Tavros Will Need Plenty Of Inclined Surfaces For His Ascent AG: That's silly. I made so many ramps, you wouldn't even 8elieve it. AG: I specifically decided I wanted to 8uild something ugly and 8oring. It is now the land of ramps and yawns. GA: Hes Reported Otherwise AG: That lousy snitch! May8e I should take his computer away so he can't go crying to fussyfangs anymore. GA: Maybe I Should Upend This Load Gaper Over Your Head AG: No, don't! GA: Im Still Learning The Interface GA: It Could Happen Accidentally At Any Moment AG: I'm only trying to help him. ::::( GA: Think Of Another Way To Help

CHEL: Did I mention Kanaya is my zodiac troll? I can only long to reach her heights of awesome. Of course the ability to levitate toilets would kinda help.

BRIGHT: Vriska heads down to her treasure vault and retrieves a pair of ROCKET SHOES. The captchalogue code for these is ‘PSHOOOES’, which amuses me greatly. Vriska sends the code to Tavros, who combines it with the code for his wheelchair to create a flying wheelchair. Now that is a good use of alchemising!

CHEL: Awww!

Tavros flies up to the Gate, and we cut back to him later on, leading an entourage of communed-with imps and ogres to move obstacles and help him solve puzzles. Using his skills well, I see! In another set of ruins the imps load jigsaw pieces of rock into a frog-shaped alcove,

Things, however, don’t continue to go so well, because Hussie hates this poor kid. I do not mean that facetiously. Statements he’s made elsewhere imply he has a hell of a lot of contempt for several of the characters he created, which I don’t understand at all. We’ll go into this after Act 7, but I get the sensation that the characters are merely tools to show off the complexity and meta references, which are the parts he really cares about.

BRIGHT: It’s not unknown for authors to dislike characters they wrote; the great Terry Pratchett reputedly hated his character Rincewind. The key difference is that in Pratchett’s case, the audience couldn’t tell. Hussie, on the other hand, tends to make his disdain pretty obvious, to the detriment of the story.

CHEL: That’s a point. Conan Doyle grew to hate Sherlock Holmes, too. He didn’t, however, set up situations solely to shit on Holmes in his books.

BRIGHT: I think that’s the key. I’ll forgive a multitude of failings as long as the author seems to be treating the characters fairly. That doesn’t mean that good things have to happen to them — plenty of bad things can happen and I’ll enjoy it — it just means that the author has to...respect how the character feels and would behave, I guess.

Of course, respect is Hussie’s antithesis, so.

Also, nothing so far has shown Vriska to be anything other than a (granted, entertaining) bully. I wasn’t around while Homestuck was updating, so I’m not sure when her fandom took off, but it has to be later than this, surely?

CHEL: I don’t know. I wasn’t around till about mid-Act 6.

What was I on about? Oh yes. Tavros is interrupted by Vriska again, who bitches him out for doing things the boring way and seeking the boring lore.

AG: The minds of your consorts are very soft and impressiona8le. AG: As easily manipul8ed as all those imps you've 8een 8ossing around. AG: I have picked apart their tiny little lizard 8rains and seen through all the smoke and mirrors of their riddles. AG: I have gotten to the truth they are guarding. The great 8ig mystery 8ehind this planet. And you know what it is, Tavros? AT: nO, AG: It's 8ullshit! AG: Meaningless, 8oring, fanciful 8ullshit wrapped in flowery poems to keep you guessing. AG: It all leads to one thing anyway, and that's what we should put our attention on. AG: Real gamers cut to the chase. They power through all the nonsense and go for the gold. AG: They cheat, Tavros. AG: It is time you learned to start cheating.

Interesting theory. Tavros thinks befriending his monsters instead of killing them is cheating, and Vriska grudgingly agrees but is annoyed he isn’t killing anything. She claims to have designed a better and more challenging quest for him; he asks after her own quest, and she says she has time because Kanaya’s busy.

AG: Which is just as well 8ecause I was starting to get nannied HARD. WHITE SBURB POSTMODERNISM: 37

Strange word choice for a species raised by animals, but okay. Vriska sends Tavros a map to the next Gate, and he sets off in his little rocket chair. Little does he know.

You proceed through what seems to be your second gate, into the LAND OF MAPS AND TREASURE. The THIEF OF LIGHT lies in wait.

In a callback to our last meeting of Breath and Light players, Tavros crashes through Vriska’s wall and is left hanging upside-down in the rocket chair from the large cobwebs across the room, while Vriska sleeps on a pile of broken eight-balls. Doesn’t look comfortable, but trolls rest in worse places later. Vriska wakes, and Tavros falls head-first onto the floor.

Here is where it gets incredibly uncomfortable, and we have to show it in detail to assign points properly and so that there’s no ambiguity about what’s happening, so if you have any sexual assault, ableism, underage, mind control, or victim-blaming triggers you may want to skip this part. No clothing is removed but it’s very unpleasant to read and the attitude toward it is worse. Seriously, this is Taklamakan Zoo levels of bad.

(This heading below’s not part of the comic, I just put it there so you can skip. The sequence ends with the piece of fanart of Kanaya looking at the sideways screen.)

~*THE ASSAULT STARTS HERE*~

Vriska sits up. She’s wearing a very short strappy white Tinkerbell dress with her sign on it, and what look like over-the-knee socks, a commonly fetishised style of clothing. I remind you these characters are supposed to be thirteen years old. The dress is also the same as the one worn by the fairy in the artwork on Tavros’ desktop background. I don’t know if Vriska had seen that or not.

FAILURE ARTIST:

To be fair she’s just in an actually-more-modest version of what Peter Pan’s sidekick/love interest wears and the socks come off as more dorky than sexy.

Oh my! It appears Pupa Pan himself has flown through your window while you were asleep. How exciting! Surely he is here to take you away on the adventure of a lifetime. He is more dreamy and heroic than you ever imagined. But what's this?? It seems the legendary Boy-Skylark has misplaced his shadow. He is looking EVERYWHERE for it, to no avail. He is having a devil of a time, what with being paralyzed from the waist down and all. He clearly needs your help.

CHEL: Vriska is prompted to Help Pupa find shadow, and approaches Tavros with a nasty-looking grin on her face, while he lies on the floor, gritting his teeth in noticeable pain.

Pupa! You truly are a silly goose. Your shadow has been trapped underneath your useless torso the whole time! Honestly, where else would it be you stupid sack of shit?

Charming. Vriska proceeds to kick him in the head, or at least nudge him with her foot, while he lies unresponsive.

Of course, the secret to reuniting with your shadow is to get up and walk around. And play and dance and frolic! Your shadow will surely join in your gaiety. But it appears Pupa has lost the use of his legs. There will be no frolicking in this young man's future. ::::( Unless...

Everyone knows that just a pinch of SPECIAL STARDUST along with a happy thought will allow any boy to get up and walk again. Everyone knows this because it is in the classic tale, PUPA PAN. Young Pupa flies through the window of a fairy girl's respiteblock, falls on the floor, and has trouble getting up like an enormous pansy. The fairy girl then helps him walk again, and in return, he teaches her to fly, even though she probably already knows how to fly. Because she's a fairy. They fly out of her window together, and have magical adventures for many sweeps thereafter. To be honest, you hardly know a damn thing about Pupa Pan. But you do not care.

Pupa remains as pathetic and useless as ever.

FAILURE ARTIST: The story just keeps mocking Tavros for being disabled.

CHEL: Not to mention for being interested in fairies. Because how dare a boy have a gender-nonstandard interest, or a young teenager enjoy whimsical escapism from an increasingly horrible and guaranteed-to-be-short life.

WHITE SBURB POSTMODERNISM: 39

I might be projecting because the fandom has made me loathe her, but it honestly comes off like Vriska dressed up like this in the first place less to seduce Tavros and more to make sure she thoroughly ruined his favourite thing to hurt him further, especially if the narration is supposed to be things she’s actually saying to him.

The stardust did nothing! Probably because it is just glittery powder with no magical properties whatsoever and is basically bullshit. Because in case it wasn't clear, magic isn't real, and neither are miracles. OR It could just be that Pupa has failed to have a happy thought! Your duty is clear. You will have to MAKE him have happy thoughts. Vriska: Make Pupa have happy thoughts.

He certainly doesn’t seem to be having happy thoughts now. Notice his expression, what we can see of it, looks terrified, he’s trembling, and let’s recall that he’s paralysed from the waist down. Even if he wasn’t, she’s of a far, far higher caste than him, legally permitted to do whatever she wants to him, including killing him if he tries to resist. It’s kind of gone back and forth on, but higher bloods are a few times stated to be a lot stronger than lower bloods, and if they work like humans, they’re in puberty right now, a time at which human girls tend to get taller and stronger sooner than boys. Again, it’s gone back and forth on, but a common interpretation is that female trolls are stronger than male trolls in general and/or have the social power advantage. Let’s also remember that, even if none of those factors apply, Vriska has mind control powers. There is no point here at which Tavros has the advantage, nothing he can use as leverage on her. She can do whatever the hell she wants, and she does.

BRIGHT: We’ve also been explicitly shown that Vriska has little to no respect for anyone else’s autonomy if she finds it inconvenient, and that Tavros is her favourite punching bag, and that his ability to stand up for himself when she gets going is extremely limited.

CHEL: Despite the odds stacked against him, Tavros struggles against the kiss forced on him, and when Vriska pushes him back, doesn’t respond with anything but a look of horror, though she appears to expect him to, as a flickering heart-spade with a question mark over it appears between them. I’m not sure whether that’s supposed to be the thought process of him or her or both.

Vriska hurls him onto the floor with some force...

… and activates her mind control, causing little hearts to light up in Tavros’ eyes.

BRIGHT: Vriska has used her mind-control powers on Tavros before, and when it happened she walked him off a cliff. There is basically no way that her doing it again isn’t going to be a traumatic experience for him, above and beyond the inherent horror of losing control over one’s body.

I’m inclined to think that forcibly altering his emotions is worse, though. Being paralysed was bad enough, but Tavros knows what happened and he knows how he feels about it. Making him fall in love with her is just…on one level, it’s a horrible assault on his autonomy as a person, and on another level, it’s tailor-made to make him doubt himself and believe the encounter was something he wanted.

FAILURE ARTIST: I hadn’t thought that he might now consider the encounter as consensual, which would explain his later reaction.

CHEL: Tavros paws at her legs, making kissy faces, and she looks vaguely concerned. Note the background still depicts wavy blue rays coming off her, showing her power is still active.

Looking defeated, she drops the control and dumps him on the floor again.

I’m not sure what she’s supposed to be thinking in this last panel. Is she feeling guilty? Is she disappointed that he didn’t like her under his own power? Has she just decided he’s too useless to be worth the effort? Any could be true.

BRIGHT: I read that as disappointment that even when he ‘liked’ her, he didn’t act the way she wanted. (And the way Tavros acted is kind of disturbing. ‘Mindlessly pawing at someone’ is not what I’d expect from him if he was legitimately attracted to someone.)

FAILURE ARTIST: The common interpretation these days was she was realizing she wasn’t into boys which okay that’s good for her but she should feel more bad about molesting him.

CHEL: That also makes no sense, because she shows interest in multiple boys later.

I’m also not entirely sure if Vriska had the intention of actually raping Tavros here (in the standard way, I mean, as one could argue that mind control is a form of rape), or just making out with him. The fact that she dressed up in vaguely fetishy clothing isn’t making it look good, though. Yes, she’s very young, but traumatised kids in particular have been known to lash out sexually like that. It’s a way of reasserting personal power, and I imagine it would be more prevalent in a society with no sapient adult supervision. While there are mitigating circumstances involved in their social situation and Vriska not really having ever had a chance to learn better, that doesn’t make this not a horrible thing to do, or not traumatising for Tavros.

BRIGHT: The clothing could potentially be down to Vriska wanting to look ‘adult’ without fully understanding why it looks adult. That does come up sometimes with teens — they want to experiment with clothing because that’s how adults dress, not because they want to look sexy, or they might dress a certain way for dates because that’s the social model they have for How Dates Work.

And if I read it like that, this basically looks like Vriska having the date equivalent of a dolls’ tea party. Which says volumes about how she views Tavros’s autonomy.

CHEL: Good point. Though honestly it would say volumes about same either way!

BRIGHT: I said earlier that Vriska is better than Equius at recognising when other people’s desires conflict with hers, and she is, but that doesn’t mean she respects those differences. She just recognises that they’re there, and overrides them. This is a prime example of Vriska viewing Tavros as something between a chew-toy and a prop. First she kicks him around and terrifies him, then she expects him to be able to get over those emotions at the drop of a hat and respond to her advances — and, moreover, she wants him to respond in a certain way, which Tavros has zero way of knowing. This is the first time she’s shown that sort of interest in him, unless her earlier behaviour was the Alternian equivalent of pigtail-pulling.

...I think maybe that was in fact Alternian pigtail-pulling. Or at least Vriska’s version of pigtail-pulling.

CHEL: That’ll actually make more sense, once we explain what the spade symbol means.

Okay, how many counts does this cover?

ALL THE LUCK: 12 ARE YOU TRYING TO BE FUNNY?: 31 CALL CPA PLEASE: 26 CLOCKWORK PROBLEMATYKKS: 55 IN HATE WITH MY CREATION: 13

It also occurred to me during this sequence to think again about how Karkat contemptuously swears at and hangs up the phone on the injured Tavros. This, at first glance, seems to be very much at odds with the “cranky but caring” impression we’re supposed to have of Karkat… but it fits precisely with Hussie’s opinion of Tavros and how pathetic he is for allowing a much more powerful person to permanently disable him. I know at the moment it looks like I’m not separating the character from the author, but it’ll become clear as we go that that is what he thinks.

IN HATE WITH MY CREATION: 14

Why didn’t we start a FUCK YOU, HUSSIE count?

BRIGHT: It would have ended up longer than all the other counts combined.

CHEL: The actual assault is over now, but there’s one more picture of it. The ramifications must continue to be discussed, so tread cautiously. The actual act is over now, though.

Said ramifications come pretty quickly. Kanaya, having dealt with getting herself into the game and prototyped her own lususprite, decides to check on Vriska.

Ideally she has not gotten herself into too much trouble. And ideally the dramatic irony has not gotten so thick you could draw a dotted line on it with a tube of lipstick and cut it in half with a chainsaw.

Of course, she sees the exact moment Vriska kisses Tavros.

(Fanart source has now been deleted, sadly.)

~*THE ASSAULT ENDS HERE*~

Humorous art aside over, let’s watch Kanaya’s reaction in more detail. She angrily looks at a copy of the Tinkerbell dress, which she presumably sent the alchemiter code for rather than the actual item to Vriska, hence why she still has it.

So THAT'S why she had you make this dress for her??? And you just went along with it like a sucker. Argh, you are such an IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Like Karkat, Kanaya is presented as the caring one, the protective one. The “mom friend” of the group. And yet, she looks at this, in which Tavros is clearly frightened and struggling, and her reaction is to be mad that Vriska didn’t want to wear the dress for a date with her. I’m not sure whether this says more about Hussie’s opinion of Tavros or the social system of Alternia or both, but it certainly says a lot.

CLOCKWORK PROBLEMATYKKS: 56 HURRY UP AND DO NOTHING: 13 IN HATE WITH MY CREATION: 15

BRIGHT: Kanaya has had to corral Vriska on Tavros’s behalf already! Possibly more than once! She has all the information to realise that this is abusive, even leaving aside Tavros’s reaction! Sure, teens can be self-centred, but even so this is egregious.

CHEL: Kanaya’s Grubsprite comforts her and she throws the dress out the window.

Being a kid and growing up. It's hard and nobody understands.

Yes, I’m sure Tavros thinks so too.

Charles: "I know Sir can be prickly, but you have to understand he had a very terrible childhood."

Klaus: "I understand. I'm having a very terrible childhood right now."

-A Series of Unfortunate Events

[bluerazorbirb]

About the Two fathers theory, and why it keeps nagging me

OK, so I caught up recently with the manga, it’s why I haven’t really been able to look this theory up much.

I didn’t think of the possibility of the twins having a different parentage while reading. It’s only when I saw this one crack theory post about Mephisto, of all people, being their potential dad by shape-shifting or something, that I looked at the timeline a little more (and I haven’t saved that post, so I can’t find it, sadly).

Anyway, the way chapter 108 presents the events is disjointed, and somewhat confusing with few time indications, but this may be why some kind of twist could be very well hidden here (along with 106 and 107).

Disclaimer: In spite of presenting the elements here, I’m neutral at best about the possibility that the twins’ parentage isn’t as it appear. I don’t see it as very possible, and I don’t know if it would matter much to the story if it’s even remotely true (perhaps for Yukio’s development, idk). Nevertheless, I’m putting my thought-process here.

Something that one crack theory ‘Mephisto is the dad’ post pointed out was the timing of the pregnancy, and how it doesn’t actually appear to line up with the timeline we’ve been given. As for why that is, let’s examine the events in detail:

(Wall of text incoming, TLDR at the end)

-

We know Satan came back to Section 13 two years after vanishing in the sewer. He came in with his demon army and took the kids and workers in Section 13 hostage. Lucifer and his three Baal followers acknowledged their ‘father’s leadership and offered their assistance. Satan was fine with having the Section 13’s researchers keep making the Elixir, as long as they gave it to him. This also suited the Section 13’s team, because Satan was a precious test subject.

However, True Cross’s Eastern branch’s Asylum being invaded like that forced its leaders to admit the existence of Satan to the other branches, and theses branches sent out exorcists in reinforcement to deal with this new threat. True Cross East still kept the existence of Section 13 a secret. Mephisto also failed to negotiate the release of the Section 13’s children in exchange for supplies (given he was aware that Satan wanted to let Section 13 continue their research, this was likely part of his 'statement’ to the other branches). We don’t know how long this whole thing took, but it likely was only a few hours, since it’s a hostage situation, and exorcists can use keys to travel to True Cross East fast.

The Paladin Abel Franken announces the plan to the outsider exorcists: Satan’s vessel is decaying, he likely only has about a month to live. They will fight and try to take on the fortress during this time.

And so, for a month, they fight. Satan never shows up, but the three Baal do. Many exorcists die (final count is 114 by the time this is over). They are at a disadvantage, because they cannot find where Satan’s HQ is (since it’s in Section 13, and True Cross East is still hiding its existence, and all the nasty clone experiment biz going on in there). By the time the month ends, the exorcists are ready to cave in to Satan’s demand, and send supplies to keep the hostages alive.

It’s when Yuri decides to act. She’s been kept on the site as a consultant after Satan first demanded her presence. While asking her higher up permission to go herself and negotiate with Satan, she learns that Section 13’s leaders are happy with the situation, and have been secretly resupplying the secret lab themselves. They’re just waiting for Satan to finish decaying while using him as a subject. It also means that the outsiders exorcists are basically dying for no good reasons.

Hearing this, Yuri goes behind her superior’s back, and get into Section 13 with the key she had secretly kept from the time she worked inside. Satan guides her to him, and Yuri pleads for Satan to release everyone in Section 13 in exchange for her staying by his side until the end. Satan eventually accepts the term.

We don’t know how long Yuri and Satan stay in Section 13. The outsider exorcists were meant to send out supplies to keep the hostage alive for the next month, but we don’t see that happen. This coupled with Satan’s decay being an issue means the two likely did not stay in Section 13 that long. Perhaps a day or two, at most.

During this time, Satan announces his departure to Eminescu and the people in Section 13, who are displeased by this development. Yuri reconnects with her friend Jenny, and learns that Jenny plans to use the opportunity that the outsider exorcists are here to reveal Section 13’s horrible deeds.

Yuri also discusses her plan to run away with Satan for him to finish his days with her. But the women are overheard. Jenny is killed, Satan and Yuri are captured right as they leave True Cross East, and Yuri shows signs of being sick.

After Satan and Yuri are recaptured, the outsider exorcists are being fed a BS story about Satan’s vessel being found decaying somewhere once the demons left the fortress (the demons left because of Yuri’s negotiation, which is kept secret). The outsider exorcists begin to question if Satan was even here, or if True Cross East is hiding something.

In order to cover-up Section 13’s existence and its involvement with Satan, Mephisto tells them that Satan was invited by Yuri after he bewitched her. He also announces to them that Yuri is pregnant by four to five weeks, and has a Cradle Barrier around her, preventing her child from being killed.

This here is the first issue with the pregnancy. It is possible I’m wrong, but from what info we were given, by the time Satan was recaptured by Section 13, only roughly a month should have gone by from the moment Satan took over True Cross East. In other words: roughly four to five weeks.

If this is so, Yuri Egin became pregnant from about the time Satan resurfaced, and a month before she found Satan and they got together to do the deed.

And it’s not a discrepancy the outsider exorcists would be able to pick on, as Mephisto told them Yuri was the one responsible for inviting Satan to True Cross East’s Asylum a month back. From what they know, she could have gotten pregnant during that time.

As for Shiro, we don’t see him at that meeting, but we do see him discuss Satan’s child with both Yuri and Mephisto, so he’s aware that Yuri is pregnant… however, the paneling of Mephisto and Shiro’s discussion has a strange layout. Specifically this part which happens in the middle of a flashback he has while stealing Kurikara:

Now, why the reaction here? Why not before? By this point, as readers, we’ve already seen the decision Shiro took right after knowing about the pregnancy, so what’s the point of putting such a reaction here? Maybe there’s no significance to it, but even Mephisto’s wording, “Yuri was pregnant”, is a bit unsettling. Perhaps the Japanese version shows something else, though, so this is just speculation.

But that timeline strangeness itself is no proof that Satan isn’t the father, or that two fathers are involved. For one, Yuri does have a Cradle Barrier around her, which only manifests to protect a demon child. Furthermore, Mephisto could have lied to the outsider exorcists about how far in the pregnancy she was. I know this would be harder to pull, because Yuri is under examination, but the Section 13 personnel may be the ones doing the job. And there is one other thing which could point to Mephisto not giving the right estimation for the pregnancy.

…But that reason is also something which points to the Two Father Theory being a possibility.

-

The thing about Yuri, is that she was late in delivering her babies. She was four weeks past her due date. Roughly about a month.

There is a month’s discrepancy with the info we were given about when Yuri became pregnant, and Yuri was a month late in delivering.

This hardly seems like a coincidence to me.

Which brings me to two possible conclusions if we go with the idea that Yuri’s pregnancy should last about the same time a normal pregnancy does. The first is that Mephisto simply lied to the other exorcists about the time of the pregnancy to cover up Section 13’s involvement with Satan, making Yuri the only culprit for the month the exorcists spent fighting the three Baal and Satan’s legion.

The second possibility is in favor of the Two Father Theory: Yuri was pregnant a month before meeting with Satan, and somehow, thanks to demon-power shenanigan, got pregnant again with another child. The reason she was past her due date by a month was so that the other child’s development would catch up with the first.

In this situation, given what we’ve seen so far, the second child is most likely to be Rin, since the Cradle Barrier vanished once he came out. The Cradle Barrier disappearing is also another hint on Yukio being possibly full human by ancestry as well (although the concept of a trade off in the womb would have been interesting).

Like I said, this possibility shouldn’t particularly affect the story, although if it’s correct, then, the fact that very few people in high place ever refers to Yukio as a ‘son of Satan’ is notable. For one, none of the Baal, or Satan himself have referred to Yukio as either a ‘brother’ or a ‘son’ (Satan himself only referred to Rin as a ‘son’, he calls Mephisto by his original name, for example). Granted, it’s as likely that demons just do not recognize Yukio as a family member due to his lack of demon powers, but this is still something to consider.

That aside, it raises the question: who is Yukio’s father if not Satan? The likeliest candidate is still Shiro, for lack of anyone else. It’s where the Two Father Theory falters in my opinion, because, while there certainly are romantic tensions in between Yuri and Shiro, and there is no doubt that Yuri viewed Shiro romantically, we haven’t seen their relationship progress to a point where they would have casual unprotected sex with each other.

Arguably, that’s also where the timeline of the event can be referred to, because the last scene we have of Shiro and Yuri together before Satan returns is when Shiro picks up Shura, and Yuri ultimately refuses to take Shura in, because she’s still waiting for ‘Rinka’ to come back once his body fails. This whole encounter happened six months after Satan bust out of Section 13. In other word, it happened a year and a half before Satan returned (further confirmed by Shura when she speaks of the sole time she met with Yuri, two years before the twins’ birth).

It does mean that, as readers, we’re missing a year and half of potential interactions in between Shiro and Yuri, a year and half when Yuri could have changed her mind about waiting for Rinka and open up to other potential futures. What still makes this a huge maybe to me is that Shura only met Yuri once, so if Shiro ever spent time with Yuri, he did it on his own, without Shura’s involvement.

Well, that’s about it for the wall of text.

TLDR: According to Mephisto, Yuri was pregnant four to five weeks in when she was captured with Satan, and this makes it more likely that she was pregnant before sneaking into Section 13 and spending a few days with Satan in there. But since she gave birth a month late from her due date, Mephisto either lied about how far ahead she was, or Yuri could have gotten pregnant a month later for a second time with Satan somehow, making Rin and Yukio fraternal twins with different fathers.

(Not going into the weird ‘fraternal twins with signs of parasitic growth’ affair, because I’m not knowledgeable enough to comment.)

But, if Yuri was pregnant before she came in, she likely realized the truth about her child when they announced the news to her. And she would know who the father involved was.

Not like it would help if the child has already been labeled as the spawn of Satan thanks to the Cradle Barrier, though.

[littlehollyleaf]

(I had a really long, detailed version of this....... but Tumblr ate it D’: so this is... heavily abridged, sorry!)

Tagged by the ever lovely @castiel-saved-me-from-myself​ <3

pick 10 ships without reading the questions

Interesting... ok!

1. Dean/Cas (obviously)

2. Aziraphale/Crowley

3. Nygmobblepot

4. Foxma

5. Babitha

6. Amy/Rory

7. Nomi/Amanita

8. Eve/Flynn

9. Catradora

10. Cosima/Delphine

1. Do you remember the episode/scene/chapter that you first started shipping 6?

I think I started shipping Amy/Rory during the Venice fish monster ep - cos that was when I felt Amy really did love him back and they had a future together. Before I suspected that her running away with the Doctor was a sign she and Rory weren’t right for each other.

2. Have you ever read a FanFiction about 2?

Only read a handful of Ineffable fic. Overall I’m perfectly happy with the canon alone.

3. Has a picture of 4 ever been your screen saver/profile picture/tumblr?

Yes I’ve had Foxma themed phone backgrounds and a tumblr header :)

4. If 7 were to suddenly break-up today, what would your reaction be?

Disbelief and disapproval. Nomi and Amanita were one of the great constants of Sense8 for me. I think a break up would be out of character for them tbh. Plus it would be denying the black and trans characters a rare example of a happy ending, which would suck.

5. Why is 1 so important?

I wrote such a detailed thing about how DeanCas is not only important to me personally but also how I feel it’s been important for TV/media in general... ugh, tumblr!

In a nutshell - this ship helped me better myself in various ways. It introduced me to fandom,  which boosted my confidence and independence via increased socialisation; it encouraged me to write more, which improved my writing skills; meta discussions educated me on lots of issues, inc. but not limited to abuse, sexuality, gender identit, autism and racism.

I also genuinely believe that the loud and open fandom support of the ship has been a significant help in the ongoing battle for more and better queer rep in media.

6. Is 9 a funny ship or a serious ship?

Serious! Catra and Adora’s relationship is a core part of the whole show, relating to lots of the wider themes of abuse, toxic behaviour, growth and forgiveness. Plus the significance of a same sex romance involving the lead character in a CHILDREN’S CARTOON really cannot be overstated.

(but it is also cute and funny sometimes :p)

7. Out of all of the ships listed, which ship has the most chemistry?

I’ve spoken before about having issues with the concept of ‘chemistry.’ If I ship characters it’s usually because I find the combination of their characterisation and story arcs interesting/compelling. I often don’t notice (or I guess care about?) chemistry.

So I think I’m not qualified to answer this one.

8. Out of all of your ships listed, which ship has the strongest bond?

Agreeing with @castiel-saved-me-from-myself​ here - you can’t really beat the Ineffables millenia long romance :)

9. How many times have you read/watched 8’s fandom?

I’ve rewatched The Librarians 2 or 3 times now. It’s DAFT. But it’s fun. And Eve and Flynn make me feel warm and fuzzy.

10. Which ship has lasted the longest?

Again, as @castiel-saved-me-from-myself​ said - it’s gotta be the Ineffables, both within AND outside of the story, since Good Omens was originally published over 30 years ago and the Zira/Crowley shippers have been going strong all that time. Otherwise it’s DeanCas.

(though idk if Catradora was a ship back when the original She Ra cartoon was airing, or when the original cartoon was made, so it’s possible that is also a contender!)

11. How many times, if ever, has 2 broken up?

Lol at @castiel-saved-me-from-myself​ for getting Nygmob for this one, as their relationship is, like, 90% break up :P

For the Ineffables though it’s basically just the once - when Zira chooses Heaven over Crowley. Not made such a Big Deal in the book IIRC, but in the show it’s the infamous Bandstand Break Up scene.

All other separations are only minor, temporary squabbles imo. Which is what makes the Bandstand scene so PAINFULLY, BEAUTIFULLY, ANGSTY AND EMOTIONAL and why I love it so! 

12. If the world was suddenly thrust into a zombie apocalypse, which ship would make it out alive, 2 or 8?

I figure angels and demons probably can’t be killed by zombies, so the Ineffables are the most likely.

But Eve and Flynn did actually face off against zombie-ghost things in an alt universe during a whole Loom of Fate plot and survived, so I think they’d probably also make it.

13. Did 5 ever have to hide their relationship for any reason?

No, Babs and Tabs were always open about being together, even when Tabs was also in a relationship with Butch.

I might argue they hid the depth of their feelings for each other though, even from themselves, and instead made out what they had together was just a casual ‘friends with benefits’ type thing.

Though Tabs did hide things a little when she sent assassins after Jim cos she blamed him for putting Babs in a coma. She clearly knew her brother would disappprove, which is why she didn’t tell him what she was doing. I guess that kinda counts as hiding her relationship with Babs? She was trying to conceal how much Babs mattered to her?

14. Is 4 still together?

Lol, Foxma were never together (ALAS!). But the show did end with their lingering fondness for each other intact I think.

15. Is 3 canon?

Is Nygmobblepot canon? Rather a touchy question for the fandom tbh.

If we are talking EXPLICIT canon - then no. 

They never got a kiss or a MUTUAL love declaration (and they had a controversial ‘we’re brothers’ exchange in the penultimate episode) - ergo there is not enough, imo, to say they ended the show officially romantically involved.

However, Ozzie DID EXPLICITLY DECLARE HIS ROMANTIC LOVE for Ed, and that was never rescinded. There is also LOTS OF SUBTEXT floating around Ed to imply he reciprocates. Plus they did end the show together as clear Partners in Crime.

So is Nygmob subtextual canon?

I would say yes.

But explicit, CANON canon?

A frustrating no that fandom remains, understandably, critical about.

16. If all 10 ships were put into a couple’s Hunger Games, which couple would win?

I think a toss up between Nygmob and Babitha - because everyone else has too many morals that would hold them back from killing :p

(and since Ed and Oz have both bested Babs and Tabs in the past I lean towards them... but it would depend on when in Gotham canon the games were happening!)

17. Has anybody ever tried to sabotage 10’s ship?

Breaking up Cosima and Delphine was a LITERAL PLOT POINT of Orphan Black at one point, so very much yes! I forget the details (the show got very twisty, with lots of different organisations working on different agendas in the shadows), but I’m pretty sure Delphine was shot because she was protecting Cosima. I remember it BROKE MY HEART and I thought it was a casebook example of Bury Your Gays. But, spoiler: it wasn’t ;)

18. Which ship would you defend to the death and beyond?

Going with DeanCas, because I think that, historically, it’s the one that’s been in most need of defending.

19. Do you spend hours a day going through 1’s tumblr page?

Not anymore I’m afraid. Though 3 or so years ago I used to spend most of my free time on DeanCas and spn meta. Ah, nostalgia.

20. If an evil witch descended from the sky and told you that you had to pick one of the ten ships to break up forever or else she´d break them all forever, which ship would you sink?

Foxma. Because while I adore the idea of a messy, confused ~something between them, in my heart I know that Foxy deserves better :P

I was too tired to bother with tagging the first time I completed this - DEF not gonna bother now!

Play if you want - it’s fun :D