#p: Fandom Commentary

[eldritchdemigodskywalkers]

i just saw THIS ice-cold take in the notes section of a "which star wars character should have an abortion" poll:

#shmi not being pregnant would have solved a *lot* of problems

which… NO????

because here's the thing: at NO point did palpatine's plans to take over the galaxy hinge on the existence of anakin skywalker.

the ONLY reason he decided to gaslight gatekeep groom that child is to have him as a Trophy to symbolize the "triumph" of the sith over the jedi, the dark side over the light.

…okay, so let's say, for the sake of argument, that anakin really had NOT been born, for whatever reason. THIS would be how it would have probably gone:

the phantom menace would have gone similarly to canon at first. but even Assuming that padmé, her handmaidens, and her jedi protectors manage to leave tatooine alive, there would have been no one to blow up the trade federation warship. naboo would have been devastated. palpatine would have become chancellor anyway.

and in the aftermath, it's very likely that the clone wars would have started several years early, as early as A Decade Early with the naboo blockade.

order 66 would have still happened: it's in the chips (or if you go by legends canon, in the indoctrination), and anakin had nothing to do with any of that. there would be no vaderkin to lead the purge, so there might be more jedi survivors, but that's about it.

palpatine would still be able to make himself emperor through his expert political maneuvering: he didn't just sit on his backside for 10 years as chancellor while anakin was still in jedi training in canon, after all.

and assuming that the "chosen one" prophecy holds true, No One Would Have Been Able to Stop Him.

so what problems WOULD anakin not being born have "solved", per se? in terms of overall galactic history, he's barely more than a footnote in the history books anyway… save for his final act of self-sacrifice to yeet his abuser out of the land of the living.

(and if you Insist on going by disney canon, even THAT got negated, so what would be the point anyway?! just incapacitating palpatine enough so that someone ELSE can deal the final blow?! witch, please, i Know star wars is pain, the entire Fandom knows that, but can't you just let the poor man who has never breathed a full day free in his life have a SINGULAR W in his life for ONCE?!!?)

and even then, that's not counting all the other, smaller acts of GOOD that anakin did throughout his lifetime that DID have a lasting impact on others' lives but might not have made the history books, Especially before his fall: he was a good kid who helped his community and family and friends and even strangers (even while literally enslaved and having nothing to his name), he was padmé's life partner and safe space to be (and find) herself and be happy, he trained ahsoka into a reasonably functional adult, etc.

all of that might not have necessarily happened had anakin not existed. even if it Could have happened, it would likely have been much harder than if he Had been there, and a net zero impact on the galaxy is still a relative positive compared to an overall negative impact. heck, -10 is still a more positive number than -1,000 on the number line.

TL;DR: palpatine's galactic sith domination plans did NOT depend on the existence of anakin skywalker, but the cosmic agenda to stop palpatine DID. that's why anakin was born as "the chosen one" in the first place. that is Literally the POINT of the OG saga.

[torchickentacos]

Okay, I've spoken to several of you who like both of these things and I need to know how deep this runs because it's an 'if I had a nickel for each time this thing happened, I'd have (x) nickels, which isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened (x) times' thing-

[ame-alone]

how can you not tell the difference. why would you think the names were interchangable. when has ANYONE from the real world called him that.

[meattruck]

Ngl even tho I've like been online for a long time I actually don't know what "old fandom culture" or w/e was like. Either I'm bad at socializing even online or maybe cuz I've never been a popular artist....

But also im not really into like....modern things i think so uh....

[littlestpersimmon]

I read "Clarissa" by Samuel Richardson today, and the novel was not nearly as amusing as the author's response to how people who read the book responded to it- (wanting Clarissa to be with the Bad Guy)- so the author in turn upped the ante to prevent proto shipping from occurring by making the two main characters worse. (Clarissa more "pious" at preserving her innocence, and Lovelace by making him even more into a sexual deviant), because the author felt that the greater themes of the story was lost on an audience that wanted gratification more than a dude moralising to them. I do think the book was an incredibly chauvinistic view on women's sexuality (literally published in 1748).. I also think of this early.. dare I say prehistoric Fandom is interesting to see, because Fandom today is largely unchanged. A story ending on a note that people find personally unsatisfactory doesn't make it a bad story, but a lot of the narratives do get lost under Fandom fun- an example at the top of my head is with Cait in Arcane turning into a fascist,- a story point that becomes tragic under the lens of shipping, much like how the narratives in Midsommar, an interesting look at how white women in their isolation can turn to white supremacy, is lost under a more superficial "revenge on a shitty boyfriend" storyline.... pointing that out is interpreted as "hate" by a vast majority of Fandom!

It reminds me a bit of Anna Haifisch's hijacked comic, "here's the life I always longed for", and someone added a response- "and I will make it mine-" where a huge chunk of the internet populace mistakenly think of the two panels as made by the same artist;

the additional panels recontextualizes the artist's original intent, the commentary on feelings on being an outcast in societal isolation becomes muddled under something that soothes, something that makes one feel good rather than sit with the uncomfortable feeling of watching someone's seclusion. I mean when you view the comic this way, that someone could just take those feelings from a creator and make it into something else because that someone else's pain made you uncomfortable.. feels, almost shallow, in a way. I wonder if all frivolous joys in fiction will always be at the cost of stories being lost in exchange for instant gratification :p I love the novelties of Fandom and fanfic, but I also like putting and pulling it apart trying to understand the ways people absorb a story.

[bitchslapblastoids]

hm yeah I think the rpftourney was a momentous once in a lifetime scenario and that galvanizing their involvement was just obscenely funny and iconic and the platonic ideal of vindication on a big cosmic scale

but it was unique; an opportunity unto itself, and I don’t want this space to tip towards the direction of seeking d&p’s broader approval, engagement, and endorsement. it’s a slippery slope that I think changes the culture of fandom tremendously. Twitter is its own panopticon, but that’s esp true in phandom space, bc so many twitter phannies are hyper-aware of dan and phil’s eyes landing on what they do. so they end up (consciously and subconsciously) tailoring their jokes and commentary to the possibility that dan and phil might see them, and they jump on people who they fear stray from what would be an acceptable representation of phandom if that were to happen.

I think it changes the tone of things from being here sharing in ideas, thoughts, reactions, & creative endeavors for an audience of ourselves and one another to instead (at least partially) sharing those things for an audience of dan and phil themselves

Obvs do what you want but I do think phannie tumblr stands so strong on its own without their direct involvement in our little universe. Perhaps even because of their lack of direct involvement, and because we aren’t concerned with getting their approval. Let’s not let the rush of the rpftourney obscure the bigger picture here.

(This is about bwafgeo in the phlit and also about how easy it is to tip down a slippery slope within fandom culture, something that is holding onto its homespun scrappy diy community-driven foundations by a thread in today’s digital landscape)

[08-1fm]

ೀ KPOP SHIFTING ASK GAME — fondant dr

i wanted to answer the entirety of @axylotls's ask game :P i already answered some here and here so i just copied and pasted them lol, i also skipped some that i didn't feel like answering >_<……

[👤] — let's start off simple: who are you? what's your stage name? are you in a group or are you a soloist? are you known worldwide or are you your fandom's little secret?

nixen ellis (three middle names: serafina roxanne lovette) :P my stage name is nixie, i pretty much only use this for my idol activities while i use my real name for my acting work and anything else. i'm in a four membered group! i'm not really known "worldwide" per say? fondant as a whole isn't necessarily mega-super-ultra-popular, if i had to compare, i'd say we're similar to stayc in terms of popularity.

[ 🫧 ] — if you're in a group, who are your members? what's your relationship with them? if you aren't in a group, who are your closest idol friends? how did you meet?

dorothy (leader, main rapper), yurina (main vocalist), and jiwon (lead rapper) ^_^ we're all very close (so much so that our fans were surprised that we were once very awkward around each other)

[📂] — what are some drastic measures you've had to take to avoid spreading rumours? does your company implement "weird" rules? are there any times you've had to stay professional when you were close to losing control?

hope for the best 🙏🏽💀💀 i'm not the best at knowing what will and won't cause rumors and i'm pretty unfiltered (but not uncouth!!) so.. if anyone has a problem with whatever i do i honestly probably won't even see it if it's just what random people are saying online (and not an actual Actual issue) bc i never look myself up online believe it or not

for the rules part: notttt necessarily? the thing about our company pulp culture is that our ceo is pretty laidback and lenient about pretty much everything. fondant had a bit of a struggle being formed since pulp had trouble finding trainees (i was literally officially added to the final lineup 2 months before we had to debut) so enforcing rules was kinda the least of their worries. also our ceo is 31 so since she's kinda close to us in age she just assumes we know what we should and shouldn't be doing anyways so 🤷🏽

and for the last part: no, and i hope it stays that way because i do nawt trust myself to keep my mouth shut

[🎧] — what are your favourite songs to perform? how about record? is there a song in your discography you absolutely loathe but the fans love?

THERE'S SO MANY……

perform: yogijogi, turnon, sugar rush, forgive me, jingle★bell★rock, supersonic, chaeri, passionfruit, viola, ttyl, drums of death, crazy, spring breakers, jet, time slip, and trampoline

record: forgive me, lucid dream, blur, supersonic, weakness, chaeri, drums of death, forever, tears, high horse, papillon

for the last question, i don't rlly have one! i like our discography :P

[📽️] — are there any embarrassing moments that live on the internet forever? what prompted it? has it become an inside joke among your fans and members?

i do nawt have any embarrassing moments i REFUSE!!!!!!! my one moment that could be counted as somewhat 'embarrassing' is that when we were promoting left right we were on a variety show and i had to do aegyo and i very much did not want to do it so i kept complaining and at one point i'm like "i'm turning 19 it's not even gonna be authentic anymore" (#NIXIELOGIC) and then jiwon, out of nowhere mind you, goes "nixie, aren't you an actor?" bc of my background in theatre predebut and that kinda gagged tf out of me!!! i had to just get my silly ass up and just do the damn aegyo bc at that point..

[🥣] — what are your most viral moments? what are things fans can expect and rely on you for? outstanding performances? always looking your best? witty commentary on a variety show? keeping it "real"?

anything from our livestreams tbh. also my tweets probably…

for the second part of the question: i'd say keeping it real! i don't like sugarcoating things when it involves me, my group, or my fans. if i think something just sucks i'm saying it

[⛓️] — how do you handle hate? whether that be from non-fans or jealous colleagues. do you fire back? do you write a diss track? or do you take the high road because you know you're above them?

i don't see it lol. i do not look myself up PERIOD bc having instant access to everything anyone is saying abt you is a nightmare scenario sawrry……

even if i do see hate, i just go on about my day tbh.. i know not everyone isn't going to like me, and i know there's a chance that nothing i do will do to change that, so i don't think it'd be healthy for me to stress out over shit like that lol

[🫐] — what is your representative animal? or perhaps it's a simple emoji? do you have a representative colour and/or symbol? what do these represent within your group and/or concept?

fondant has representative objects, mine are headphones :P there isn't an actual reason behind this (like lore reasons, for example) other than group identity and the objects themselves don't really have an actual meaning either

however, my unofficial representative animal is a rabbit 🐇🤓

[📞] — have you ever done something behind your company's back? they told you specifically not to do it, yet you did it anyway? were you caught? how did fans react?

no, i do not like being scolded 💔 if i was given an actual valid reason to go behind my company's back i would do it but i wouldn't just do it for the hell of it yknow 😭…

the only thing that could qualify as me going behind my company's back is spoilers. we're allowed to spoil some things for upcoming projects and whatnot but not too much, yknow? and i probably overdid that maybe once or twice. however our ceo spoils more than all of us combined so 💀!!!! i do not know why this woman has a twitter account (when she already has a BLOG) but someone needs to take it away from her NOW bc why on earth are you posting behind the scenes stuff for a comeback that wasn't going to be announced until three months later

[🖇️] — we all know k-pop is very well known for its ships and duos... are you involved in an iconic pairing? how did this start? is it a natural friendship [ perhaps more . . ] or a forced pr stunt?

me and my gf ningning 😁🤍… the reason why us as a pairing got somewhat popular in the first place is bc at an award show we did a special stage of espresso by sabrina carpenter together ^_^ and then after we got together (march of this year) we just wouldn't shut up about e/o 😭 we literally bring up each other at whenever we have a chance like even if the og convo had nothing to do with the other person… we haven't publicly revealed our relationship but we're not being Necessarily Secret About It either so. it's really just speculations rn and my fanbase doesn't really care like they're just like "good for them" and they just kinda move on

as for dynamics inside of fondant, my most popular pairing would probably be me and yurina (roommatez <3), it gained popularity bc whenever we both have literally nothing to do when fondant isn't promoting we just go live together :P

[📰] — is there anyone in the industry that you really can't stand? someone who gets on your nerves no matter what they do? what happened between you two? is there a happy ending in sight?

nah, i don't really have a ton of friends in the industry anyways so.. LMAO

[wreathedwith]

Beautiful Possibilities: The Abbey’s ‘Beautiful Possibility’ series through a fandom studies lens

I’ve been reading Faith Current’s Beautiful Possibility series, a new serialised piece of writing – also available in audiobook/podcast format – on accepting the possibility of an explicitly romantic relationship between John Lennon and Paul McCartney, and an assertion of the wider ramifications for our culture at large that the acceptance of this could possibility offer.

This series has not yet concluded, and my writing here is offering neither a line-by-line critique nor an examination of the plausibility of the series’ central premise. Rather, what I want to consider at this point in time comes from a perspective different to that of the series’ author: that of a long-time active participator in fandom.

The Beautiful Possibility series’ interplay with mythology intrigued me, especially in part 1:3 (which is the part I will be focusing on here) because of my interest in fandom studies. Unlike most stories that we would consider ‘folklore myths’, two members of The Beatles are currently living real human people (and the other two aren’t exactly denizens of ancient history). For those four men, and for a relatively small inner circle of other people, The Beatles is a deeply personal story. The Beatles is also, of course, a shared story retold endlessly, well-known – at least in its fundamentals – by millions the world over.

What’s also a shared story? Absolutely anything fandom gets its hands on. By the author’s own admission, she “[doesn’t] really fit into either” (Part 1:3) mainstream Beatles studies or the fandom side of things, and so, naturally, Beautiful Possibility is not written from a fandom studies or fandom participant perspective – nor does it claim to be.

There are several aspects Beautiful Possibility that caught my attention from the perspective of a participant in fandom. The first is its anonymising and obscurating citation of fandom, by referring to it as “countercultural Beatles studies”. This is protective of fandom in a way that I personally appreciate (i.e. from those who are in no way familiar, immediately dismissive, and would come by on any clickable link solely to gawp and laugh), yet also serves the purpose of protecting (that is, legitimising) the author’s own work, primarily by reducing any even very hazy link between Beautiful Possibility and works clearly delineated as fiction – even if those same writers are also digging up genuinely new information and factual analysis.

It was also a pretty surprising approach to me: the general concept of ‘fandom’ has massively mainstreamed and, to a degree, commercialised over the past decade or so. Although RPF continues to often receive (and/or require) special or additional protection, perspectives on RPF have continued to shift. (For an up-to-date overview of the history of RPF and the state of things today, read The RPF Question by Sacha Judd (Fansplaining).)

To be clear, the majority of my active fandom participation has been RPF, and I’m personally very much of the ‘lock it all down and keep it solely to its intended audience’ school. And yet I’m also buoyed by the increased accessibility of fandom, and the kind of genuinely exciting and vital research that is being carried out by fans: not only am I thinking here of the Beatles RPF crowd fitting things together that have previously remained unjoined, but also the fandom-to-scholarship pipeline (with academic community engagement!) and getting to experience other fan’s original research that I enjoyed as part of the fandom for AMC’s The Terror and its attached true story.

A second example of something I found distinctly ‘unfandomy’ in Beautiful Possibility 1:3 was this commentary on edited photographs of John and Paul together:

Unlike writing about the lovers possibility, the fake “kissing photos” are without question unethical… The fake photos hurt John and Paul and the ability of serious researchers to prove the credibility of the lovers possibility.

I would say that it is of course helpful for these to be clearly labelled as manips (aka “fake photos”) just as fic is identified in its own context as a fictional work – to help me build my own personal narrative interpretation and understanding, I want to know if a photo is real or not. However, I don’t agree with the sentiment expressed above. I understand that we are far beyond the days of photoshops posted to LiveJournal and well into the horrifying era of GenAI infecting everywhere, but providing that the manip is labelled as such it in no way hurts “the ability of serious researchers” to prove anything, at least any more so than lines from fanfiction breaking containment and being presented as genuine quotations from real people (which sometimes happens). This sentence also results in a strongly implied separation of fans and “serious researchers” into two entirely separate categories, when they can often be one and the same. (For more on The Beatles RPF in a fandom context specifically, both now and then, check out The Beatles Live! by Allegra Rosenberg, also on Fansplaining.)

Sources that are especially potent for fannish interpretation and transformative works also require an absence or some remaining ambiguity, but that absence is not a necessarily a “wound” (as the distorting of John and Paul’s story and the refusal to acknowledge the damage of this distortion is characterised by Beautiful Possibility). That absence is something to be filled in, elevated – marquetry, kintsugi – something that for whatever reason the source material didn’t include but did (probably unintentionally) nevertheless leave space for.

The part of Beautiful Possibility 1:3 where I most acutely felt the absence of a fandom perspective is the following:

As I opened myself to the possibility of John and Paul as a romantic couple, I could feel a part of me that had been numb for as long as I could remember come alive with a new sense of hope and creative energy and a deep effervescent joy — not unlike the feeling of falling in love. The possibility of a romantic affair between John and Paul quite simply set my life and my soul on fire, and this feeling has stayed with me for over three years and counting with no sign of fading away.

To me, this glow is what I’d call ‘fandom’ – it is not unique to John and Paul and by now I’ve felt it many times over. I, and many others, have also felt (and made) the comparison between how one feels falling headfirst into a new fandom and falling head over heels in love with someone.

The author does not need to be all things to all people, and of course one person’s unique perspective yields a unique body of work. But it is this section where it feels most relevant to bring in a fandom-familiar perspective, because the near-total uniqueness of John and Paul and The Beatles and their impact on the world is a central pillar to Beautiful Possibility’s thesis. The wonderful feeling the author has written about experiencing is felt by many – about John and Paul, but also about many other narratives and other characters.

Myth and folklore aren’t important because of what percentage of the total characters or story may or may not be real. They’re important because they tell us stories that have stuck around and been reinterpreted many times over. Antimatter was theorised to exist before it was proven because it explained a gap, because nothing else would make as much sense as its existence. There isn’t even that level of a leap of faith here, because the love between John and Paul on at least some level is clearly evidenced, but the attraction of proving the veracity of romantic feelings is often that there is nothing else that is as good or as all-encompassing an explanation. It can’t heal the world, it can’t conquer death, but it can heal those affected, it can make sense.

Even if you believe John and Paul were in romantic love that was in some way consummated, even if this is somehow one day proven beyond reasonable doubt, it is already far too late: they cannot be joined back together. It’s a mystery that can only be solved after the fact, with a modern lens: and therefore it’s not John and Paul that’s helping. Like many mythical protagonists, John and Paul are, and will only become more so, archetypes newly reinterpreted in the light of our own times.

Fanworks can bring John and Paul together, and that is in order to heal our fannish hurt and satiate our desires, but reality is left untroubled. And that’s okay. The noticing in and of itself is to heal more widely in some sense – to convince the sceptics, to satisfy through the resolution of a mystery – but only up to a (lance tip) point.

Beautiful Possibility’s perspective proclaims John and Paul, the ultra-famous white male geniuses, as the “lifeforce love” source – transgressive but subversive – forming the foundation of a myth that, should we recognise its reality, can offer salvation for us all. The fandom studies perspective, and probably the folklore studies perspective too, would say that it is our veneration and continued reinterpretation of the story that gives it its continuous power, whether or not the events within that story ever really happened.

The Beatles without their attendant cultural veneration would have remained in the past as echoing music in an empty room. The ruinous nature of the fruitless quest for the Holy Grail for those who come to believe in its genuine, literal existence is to be found in that definite article: ‘the’. Only one. How could it ever be possible to find one small object in the entire world? What if the belief that there is one best or ultimate source of anything as important as world-healing love is just as limiting?

Modern-day fandom as it stands would barely exist without the modern consumerist culture it centres around and interacts with, and yet (as per good old Henry Jenkins) by its very nature fanfiction also counteracts, is “repairing the damage” of corporations’ control of contemporary myths, thereby intrinsically rejecting the assertion that there is one single correct, centrally-controlled, true narrative. There are many, simultaneously. All of them can feel true. Or none of them. And then you can go and write your own.

Of the thousands of fandoms that there are, every fandom has its source – a novel, a movie, the publicly available personas of a group of real people – but finding one of these sources is not the end of our quests. It’s the start.

[the-conversation-pod]

The Untamed Episodes: The Second Life

AND WE'RE BACK

In Part 2 of our Untamed discussion, Ben, NiNi, Shan (@lurkingshan) and Bookworm (@neuroticbookworm) talk about our love for Jiang Cheng, our hatred for Meng Yao/Jin Guangyao, and why we will always hold out hope for more Chinese BL.

If you missed Part 1, you can check it out here.

Timestamps

The timestamps will now correspond with chapters on Spotify for easier navigation.

00:00 - Welcome 00:55 - Intro: More Notes From The Future 01:45 - The Second Life 09:23 - The Second Life: The Fallout of Wei Wuxian's Choices 16:52 - The Second Life: Meng Yao's Dastardly Deeds 26:52 - The Second Life: The Tragedy of Wen Ning 32:35 - The Second Life: Two 'Fools' 37:41 - The Second Life: Various Random Musings 48:18 - Page to Screen (and Audio, and Anime, and Stage, and…) 56:59 - Afterlife: The Impact of The Untamed on BL and Fandom

The Conversation Transcripts!

Thanks to the continued efforts of @lurkingshan as an editor and proofreader, we are able to bring you transcripts of the episodes.

Please send our volunteers your thanks!

00:00:00 - Welcome

NiNi

Welcome to The Conversation, the Queer Media And Brown Liquor Podcast.

Ben

I'm Ben, the media critic.

NiNi

I’m NiNi, the VIIBs queen.

Ben

And we are your drunk Caribbean uncle and auntie who are sitting on the porch in the rocking chairs.

NiNi

We’re here to talk queer film and dramas, with a special focus on Asian QL.

Ben

So if you like to dive deep into queer stories…

NiNi

If you like cracked out takes on art and commerce in queer media…

Ben

If you just enjoy simping for attractive people…

NiNi

We believe in simping!

Ben

Tune in!

00:55 Intro: More Notes From the Future

Ben 

And we're back. We're gonna continue with our huge two part episode on The Untamed. We finally bullied NiNi into watching it. We got her into the booth with Shan and our good friend Bookworm. I really hope you listened to the last episode because we're going right into Wei Wuxian's second life. 

NiNi

The second life is so much fun. There's some stuff we talk about in here that I could have continued talking about forever. 

Ben

No more beehive commentary from you right now. 

NiNi 

No more beehives, but I just want the world to know that I love Jiang Cheng. 

Ben 

Ah, that poor boy. What a hot mess of a man. Angry purple man. 

NiNi 

My angry purple dream boat, how dare you. 

01:55 The Second Life

Ben 

On to the second life.

Shan 

So this is after Wei Wuxian is resurrected, 16 years after his death. The Jin clan is now holding the most power in the cultivation world. They have the chief cultivator position. Jin Guangyao has had a meteoric rise to power in the time Wei Wuxian has been gone. His father has died. He has gotten married. He has an heir. 

We also have a whole new generation of junior cultivators along for the ride with us, notably Jin Ling, the son of Jiang Yanli and Jin Zixuan. Lan Sizhui, whose identity is a mystery that's not very well concealed. [laughs] Although, we did not mention our beautiful A-Yuan in the first life, just know that we love him dearly.

Ben 

There's too many things to mention. I didn't even go off on an extended period about Madam Jiang beatin’ the shit out of people.

Shan 

I know, right. 

[all laugh]

NiNi

She was such a bitch, but she came through when it mattered, my God.

Shan 

There's so many characters here, but please know that we love them all dearly even if we haven’t gotten the chance to talk about them all. A-Yuan is very close in our hearts.

Ben

We would just be screaming his name for like five minutes.

Shan

Yes! [laughs] So Lan Sizhui is who we come back to in this new timeline and Lan Jingyi is also around, his best friend—his lifelong bosom companion, you might say. 

Major storylines in the second life. We, of course, have Wuxian getting resurrected in Mo Xuanyu’s body, although in the show it's just the same actor the whole time because they didn't want to do that to us mentally, which I appreciate. He is supposed to settle his grudges as part of that spiritual agreement for his resurrection. So he is pursuing the folks who harmed Mo Xuanyu. The big mystery unfolds with trying to figure out the last grudge that he holds. That aligns with unraveling the big mystery of the hidden foes from the first life.

Jin Guangyao, aka Meng Yao, is the villain behind most of the horrible things that happened in the first timeline. And also getting up to all kinds of other noxious shit like marrying his own sister, killing his own son because he's an incest baby, murdering his father via a gaggle of prostitutes, fucking him to death.

NiNi 

That's a thing that happened, people!

Shan 

Yeah, real normal stuff over there. And recruiting a number of folks to do his dirty work, including villains Su She and Xue Yang. He is a half brother to Mo Xuanyu and responsible for a lot of what he went through, as well. So he's just all up in the business. He also murdered Nie Mingjue and tricked Lan Xichen into being complicit in all of that. 

While that's happening, Wuxian is reunited with Wangji. They are following these clues.

Ben 

I'm sorry, we have to be clear that, like, by following the clues we mean Wei Wuxian wakes up. It's like, “Wow, this place sucks. Whoa, where'd that arm come from? All right, let's put this arm in a bag. Well, the arm’s pointing that way. I guess we're going there now.”

Shan 

That's only in the book, bestie.

Bookworm 

So, in the show it's actually just a sword spirit. 

Shan 

The book is way more gruesome. There’s, like, body parts, it’s a whole thing. The show is a little simpler.

Ben

Okay, yeah, they use a sword but it’s literally like, “oh okay, I guess we’re going east? All right.”

Shan

[laughs] Yeah, the sword points them in the direction they should go to follow some clues.

As Wangji and Wuxian work together to follow the sword spirit, unravel the mystery, the juniors are along for the ride. There is a very devastating arc in Yi City where they meet Xiao Xingchen and Song Lan, who we had briefly encountered in the first timeline, and unravel a whole plot about them being tormented by Xue Yang, who is fucking evil. Very much a fan favorite arc, I think.

Bookworm 

It is the best arc and this is also the most tragic arc.

Shan 

It's quite sad.

Bookworm 

Nobody knew what was going on. Everybody got tricked into it. 

Ben 

The Yi City arc is pretty brutal because we basically see how Meng Yao has orchestrated these complex events to torture and murder people he doesn’t like. Xue Yang does the same thing to two roaming cultivators—not boyfriends—which culminates in him turning one of them into a puppet akin to Wen Ning and then driving the other one to death by making him commit evil acts unknowingly. Which is… diabolical.

Shan

After the Yi City arc, that is when Wuxian and Wangji discover the truth of Nie Mingjue's death, which was very intentionally perpetuated by Meng Yao. By unraveling that, they caught on to his whole evil shit. This all culminates in a confrontation at Guanyin Temple where Meng Yao is fully unmasked, Nie Mingjue's corpse rises and is really out for some revenge—which, fair enough, I would be too. Jiang Cheng confronts Wei Wuxian after learning about the golden core transfer that he never consented to. And we finally learn that Nie Huaisang was actually the one who was behind Wei Wuxian's resurrection and orchestrated this whole mystery plot as a way to get revenge on Meng Yao for murdering his brother. 

While these plot things are happening, there are a couple emotional arcs going on. There is, of course, the continuation of the Jiang family drama and the tension between Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian, which is now complicated by the involvement of Jin Ling, who is Wei Wuxian's nephew and has grown up an orphan because of Wei Wuxian's behavior. Jiang Cheng needs to learn the truth about Wei Wuxian giving him his core. And they have to kind of work through all of their emotions about that, which don't come to any kind of satisfying resolution, because how the fuck could they?

And then finally, there is of course the reunion second chance romance between Wuxian and Wangi. Honestly, their adult romance is so great. Wuxian is resurrected. He immediately reconnects with Wangji. He's having some fascinating mix of memory loss and obliviousness that is his signature and some just emotional denial about the feelings between them. Wangji is having none of that. He is very clear on the fact that he is in love with this man, sticking to his side like glue and not letting anyone hurt him again. So they are traveling together while they solve this mystery. They're having all kinds of very fun ship moments, lots of cute stuff happening. Wangi's getting drunk a lot. 

Ben 

There's a piggyback scene.

Shan

There's definitely some piggybacking happening.

NiNi

There's a definite wedding. I mean, these guys have gotten married like at least three times in the show.

Shan 

Right, exchanging of chickens, very important stuff. [NiNi and Shan laugh] And, of course, standing together publicly in this second life in a way that Wangji was not able to do for Wuxian in the first life. He declares himself very much unambiguously on Wuxian's side in front of all the other clans. He does not give a shit anymore. 

And then of course we learn over the course of this arc that Sizhui is A-Yuan and that Wangji rescued him after Wuxian's death, brought him into the Lan clan and raised him. Wow, what a fuckin’ man. 

They end on an ambiguous note because this is a censored cdrama. [laughs] So instead of the book ending, which involves them getting married and fucking in a field, we get Lan Zhan—very out of character—deciding to become the chief cultivator [laughs] and Wuxian going to travel alone and them having an ambiguously implied reunion right at the very end of the show. But we all know that they got married and had a lot of sex. That's what happened. 

So, yeah. That is the second life in a nutshell.

09:33 The Second Life: The Fallout of Wei Wuxian's Choices

NiNi 

There are two or three really big things that stand out for me, in this arc. One is just seeing Wei Wuxian's regrets. He's looking back at his life like, wow, maybe I shouldn't have done that like that. Or, wow, I was such an arrogant kid, I should have thought about these things in a different way. You see him having regrets as he sees the outcomes of the choices that he made in his first life. 

Alongside that, the choices that he made in his first life have made him kind of a folk anti-hero. He's now the scary story that parents tell their kids about, “Be good or the Yiling Patriarch will come get you.” He's wearing another face, so people generally don't know it's him. So he gets to hear how people are talking about him 16 years later. And he's realizing, “Fuck, I was evil.”

Shan 

He's like, “I did kinda do a genocide. That was my bad.”

Ben 

We really should not downplay that this man literally killed thousands of cultivators.

Shan 

He sure did.

NiNi 

Thousands of people out of anger and arrogance. I mean, you saw how it built up because he really was just trying to mind his own business and everybody kept poking him, but he still killed thousands of people ‘cause he got mad.

Shan

These other clans that hate him, it's for a reason. It's ‘cause he killed all of their family members. It's not some minor petty grudge.

NiNi 

Well, in this arc, but when they hated him before, it was because he had power that they wanted and he wouldn't tell them how he got it.

Shan 

Yeah. In the second life, his reputation is in tatters and people hate him because he killed everybody they love. Which is fair, in my opinion.

NiNi 

It's absolutely fair, completely fair. Totally understand that. 

So that arc is a really interesting arc for me because it carries through all the various relationships. It carries through his relationship with Jiang Cheng because at the end when Jiang Cheng is like, well, what am I supposed to fucking do with this? Okay, you saved my life, but also, hi, got my entire family killed.

Shan 

Fully.

NiNi 

Am I supposed to thank you? I don't know what I'm supposed to do with this.

Shan 

Jiang Cheng was spitting nothin’ but facts in that temple.

NiNi 

Nothing but facts. He was a hundred percent  correct. And he's stuck in this place now because he loves Wei Wuxian. But at the same time, basically his family opened their home to this man and he got them all killed.

Ben

Objection!

Bookworm

Thank you, Ben. 

Ben 

Wei Wuxian did not murder the Jiang clan. The Wens did, and they were going to do it anyway. Wen Chao's active abuse of the hostages was a prelude to them eventually getting killed. When he left them in the cave like that, he intended for them all to die. Wei Wuxian is not the reason why the Wens sacked Lotus Pier. Madam Jiang may be mad because she believes that her husband is probably Wei Wuxian's father, unconfirmed.

Bookworm

Uh-huh.

NiNi 

Pretty much, yep.

Ben

But like, that boy is not the reason why the Wen Clan went on a tear to slaughter their way to more power.

Shan 

That's true. But he is culpable for Jiang Yanli’s death and that is the one that hurts the most.

Ben

Yes, that part he is.

Bookworm 

I also want to make it clear, like, she ran into a battlefield. That woman gave a month old child to somebody and then she just ran into a battlefield. [laughs]

Shan 

Listen, no one's saying Yanli was the smartest bulb. We're not with some of her choices, but NiNi's point, from Jiang Cheng's point of view, is correct.

Bookworm 

That's true. The facts and the emotions that he was spitting at that moment was very true. 

The reason why the story is so compelling is that you have all of these people who had taken very personal losses and they have very personal emotions that are connected to, basically, a political war for power. What are the motivations behind the people who ultimately want to be at the top? What will they do and how will they manipulate the narrative to just achieve that? If they get a scapegoat, all really good. I'm not saying that Wei Wuxian didn't do all of those things. He killed a whole bunch of people, and he was a dumbass who refused to talk to anybody. 

Ben

I'm just being clear that my client, who did kill thousands of people, [all laugh] did not specifically kill his own clan. He shot the sheriff, but he did not shoot the deputy. All right, let's be clear here.

[NiNi laughs] 

Shan 

Let's get back on track, folks. We got a lot of content to get through. 

The reason that Jiang Cheng's arc is so compelling is because, if you think about things from his perspective… like, wow, what the fuck happened to this kid? He was a teenager when his home was destroyed and his parents were murdered in front of him. His brother then—from his point of view—abandoned him, left the clan, to go protect a different family. Adopted new siblings that he prioritized over Jiang Cheng. Never explained himself. Started doing evil shit. Would not tell him anything about why he was doing these things. Ultimately started a battle that culminated in the death of their sister. And then jumped off a cliff. That is what Jiang Cheng's brother did to him, from his perspective. 

And so, it is not hard to understand why he both loves and hates him in equal measure, why he struggles so much to understand him and why he wants to forgive him, but he can't. And Wei Wuxian can never make it right. He made these huge mistakes that they can never come back from. They will never be able to trust each other and be close again.

Ben 

My favorite thing about Jiang Cheng is the emotional core of why he's so mad at Wei Wuxian is Wei Wuxian will never let him be useful. Jiang Cheng feels like he got no credit for getting them out of the cave. He loses his core because he was trying to save Wei Wuxian. He thought he was gonna die, and he doesn't get to have a noble death. He gets turned into a mundane person. 

Then Wei Wuxian helps him get his core back so he can continue to be a cultivator. But then something's clearly wrong with his brother, he then disappears. And they find him again. He's trying to rebuild his clan. Wei Wuxian is supposed to be helping him, but it's clearly not the same. And he can't get through to him. Basically every time he thought he was doing something for Wei Wuxian, Wei Wuxian was doing something for him. But he constantly feels undercut by the brother he admires’ own excellence and ego. Like, he feels like he is forever playing second to Wei Wuxian and he can't ever get over that because now he has Wei Wuxian's core. And he knows that now by the end of the story.

Shan 

Oof. That's some, like, real mind fuck stuff.

NiNi 

Now he's stuck wondering if all the things that he's been and done since then are because of him or because he has Wei Wuxian's core and therefore because he's Wei Wuxian. So he doesn't ever know if he's good enough, now.

Ben 

Exactly.

Shan

My God. Jiang Cheng, they will never make me hate you.

NiNi 

Never, never!

Bookworm 

Never.

Ben 

I understand that angry purple man.

18:13 The Second Life: Meng Yao's Dastardly Deeds

Shan 

I feel like Bookworm should talk a little bit about the way the Meng Yao and Nie Mingjue and Xichen stuff plays out in this arc, ‘cause I know you have a lot of strong feelings about it.

[Bookworm and Shan laugh]

Bookworm 

All right, let's get to it.

Ben 

I really love when I can hear her getting all of her notes together. 

Shan 

She's getting organized.

Ben

I have to organize my slide deck.

Bookworm

I got notes! All right, so in the second arc, we only start by knowing that Nie Mingjue died this horrible death and we have this mystery of his sword and the sword spirit and leading them around. They're just solving the mystery of this murder who, at the time, they did not know that it was a murder. It comes to heads when they go to the Jin headquarters and solve this mystery by basically having Wei Wuxian turn into this tiny paper man and go and perform—I think it's called Empathy—on Nie Mingjue's severed head that is in Jin Guangyao’s secret closet. I cannot believe there are people who defend this man. [laughs]

We get flashbacks of Wei Wuxian finding out exactly how Meng Yao manipulated Xichen into bringing Nie Mingjue and all of them into this sworn brothers pact sort of thing, after the war, and how he used that to slowly erode Nie Mingjue's composure using tainted music. And finally it breaks him. He runs away and the official account is that he is lost, but we know that Jin Guangyao cut his head off with his own sword and then just keep it in his closet. Like a very normal person. 

The way this is revealed, you see all of the major players trying to understand what actually happened and why Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian chose to kind of have this confrontation with this man. And you can see how he pulls the thread in that scene so well. He orchestrated the action where Wei Wuxian pulls out the sword that was sealed because he lost his core and reveals his identity to everybody in attendance—who are all, we have already established, super mad at Wei Wuxian for killing all of their loved ones. And then you see him kind of imply that Lan Wangji has been seduced into helping Wei Wuxian. 

Ben 

He didn't use a homophobic slur, but we heard it.

Bookworm 

Right! Everybody kind of zeroes in on what Lan Wangji is going to do at this moment, and even Wei Wuxian expects him to remove himself from Wei Wuxian's side. He was worried about what this could mean to the Lan sect itself. So he was like, okay I’m just gonna fly solo from here. But it culminates, of course, with Lan Wangji standing by Wei Wuxian and declaring openly that he is gonna walk the single plank path in the dark till the end with him. Which is just, ah, so romantic. 

Jin Guangyao, he has basically very successfully isolated somebody who has a stellar reputation in the cultivation world within a matter of minutes. He questioned his motivations and he wanted that person to declare his allegiance. And when that person was forced to do it, that's it. That was almost a surgical precision of political strategy. That was insane.

Shan 

It was a real showcase for his skill set.

Ben 

On his back foot, he really won that entire encounter.

Bookworm

He did. That was a fight that Jing Guangyao a hundred percent won. I think at that point, everybody wanted to fight them. But obviously, we know that nobody's going to fight Lan Wangji.

So they then flee. We still have, like, two more showdowns after this, which is where he ultimately loses. But this one, Jin Guangyao a hundred percent won. Even if the cultivation world doesn't know that he was a villain at this point, we as an audience are very clearly shown that this was a man who can talk his way out of anything. That is exactly what he has done for so long, for almost 20 fucking years. He has talked his way to the top of a cultivation world. Like, he has risen from being an illegitimate child to the top position.

Shan

His methods are never to get his own hands dirty. His methods for framing Wei Wuxian in the first life, his methods for continuing to do his dirty deeds in the second life are through these villainous dudes that he recruits into his cause. Su She, who is a former Lan cultivator who has a lot of bitterness that he plays on. Xue Yang, who is another one of Jin Guangshan's illegitimate sons. The illegitimate sons are just all over this story. 

The way the story unfolds—and this is, I think, one of our probably biggest critiques of the show—they eventually end up pinning a lot of what Wei Wuxian ostensibly did in the first life on Su She as a second demonic cultivator who was controlling people when we thought Wei Wuxian was. That's a change from the book to the show. It's a change I hate a lot.

NiNi 

I think about it this way. If Wei Wuxian wasn't doing what he was doing, he wouldn't have created the cover that Su She had to do what he did. So I still blame it on Wei Wuxian.

Shan 

Yeah, I'm with you. I think the show wants to let him off a little bit, but I will not be doing that.

Ben 

I think one of the things that I find compelling about Meng Yao is because of his starting line, he will never be as powerful as someone like Wangji or Wei Wuxian or any of the other clan leaders and named characters in this story. It doesn't surprise me that he ends up teaming up with people who for whatever reason also cannot achieve those kinds of heights. Like, Su She’s just not as good as Wangji and he's envious of him. And he hates that Wangji won't acknowledge him. He hates that Wei Wuxian won't even remember his fucking name. 

Shan 

Wuxian every time: “Who are you?”

[NiNi laughs]

Bookworm 

It's so good!

NiNi 

So amazing.

Ben 

It's notable that the three of them who form this little evil trio all hold specific grudges about the way they feel disrespected. Everybody Meng Yao has killed, he kills because at one point or another, they called him the son of a prostitute. And he's like, “Well, I'm adding you to my list.”

Shan 

Fuck you, then. [laughs] You gonna die.

Ben

Mingjue originally shielded him and elevated him based upon his actual ability and merit. And Meng Yao took out one of his grievances in the middle of a battle and got caught doing it. That's when Mingjue turned against him.

It's the same thing for Su She. Like Su She wants to have his own clan be acknowledged after Cloud Recesses is destroyed. You can see this man's like, “now's my chance!”

NiNi 

But he just sucks. 

Ben

He does! 

Shan 

Yeah, he doesn't have the skills.

NiNi

He just sucks!

Ben

Even the Lan juniors are like, “You are bad. You do not know how to play your instrument.”

NiNi 

The fact that they use the fact that he sucks to hide him in the story as a villain until the very end. Like he's playing the song to attack wrong. But everybody just accepts that because he sucks, right? So of course he's playing the music wrong. He's playing it wrong on purpose, but everybody else just thinks that he sucks at it. Him sucking is how he hides in plain sight. I love that so much.

Ben 

Meng Yao's whole group is shittier versions of other people. Like, Su She is a shitty version [NiNi laughs] of Lan Zhan and Xue Yang is an insane shittier version of Wei Wuxian.

Shan

[laughs] It's true. They're like the sad little copycats who will never have glory.

Ben

That's what I think is so compelling about it. Like, how much of the story would have been solved by people just not being rude to Meng Yao.

NiNi

He would have found another reason.

Shan 

I gotta say, I don't think murder is a proportional response.

[NiNi laughs]

Bookworm 

Right. Exactly.

Ben 

How much is my finger worth? All of their lives! [all laugh] All of them!

NiNi 

Oh my God.

Bookworm 

[Xue] Yang was a fucking unhinged serial killer. Holy shit.

NiNi 

Psychopath.

Ben 

Let me tell you, that actor is my favorite of the whole series. I love his ridiculousness the whole time.

Shan 

That's a bold statement. My favorite actor in this is definitely Wang Yibo, who did so much with so little.

Ben

I'm being a little bit facetious there. Of the side characters—

Shan 

Fair enough.

Ben

—of the supporting characters, he's my favorite because they were like, what's the direction? “Just serve cunt.” “Got it.”

[all laugh]

Shan

And he's serving cunt, but we cannot overstate that he is by far the most fucked up evil dude in this story. What he does to Xiao Xingchen and Song Lan is disgusting.

Bookworm 

My god, yes, let's talk about that.

Ben 

We're gonna get into how evil this man is. But when he talked to Wei Wuxian, he's like, “I need your help with this sort of stuff.” And Wei Wuxian is like, “What the fuck? Why would I help you with that?” He's like, “Well, you started all this shit. What is your problem, dude?”

[Ben, NiNi and Shan laugh]

Shan 

It actually is really funny. He says, “come on, be my mentor.” And Wuxian’s like, “no, no, this is not what I'm doing. This is not connected to me.”

NiNi 

I would like very much not to be a part of this particular narrative.

Shan

Exactly!

Bookworm 

No!

Ben 

We have to talk about Wei Wuxian reflecting. “Is this the company I've collected? Hold on.”

Bookworm

Exactly! Like, holy shit, if this man thinks that I would help him, what does that say about me and my actions so far? 

Shan 

What have I been doing? Exactly.

Bookworm

Yes! What have I been doing?

30:56 The Second Life: The Tragedy of Wen Ning

Shan 

We haven't actually talked yet about what Wei Wuxian did to Wen Ning, and we should.

NiNi

Oh man. The tragedy of tragedies.

Ben 

So Wei Wuxian learns from Wen Qing that the Wen remnants are basically being tormented and experimented on by the Jin clan, who are trying to understand Wei Wuxian's demonic cultivation. When he arrives at this site, he loses his shit, sees that they've killed Wen Ning, and then revives Wen Ning as a puppet—that's the term that they use for, basically, his zombies—and sends Wen Ning on a tear beating the crap out of people. After which he tries to develop a method to restore Wen Ning's consciousness, but he has forever trapped this originally very kind boy in a perpetual state of undead. And he will forever be at the control of anyone who can produce the proper tunes to force him to go beat the shit out of people.

Shan

This is another thing that Wei Wuxian does without the consent of the person involved. He turns Wen Ning, who is a very gentle, loving soul, into a weapon, basically. He turns him into an indestructible ghost puppet who Wei Wuxian uses to perpetuate violence and who other people, we learn, can use to perpetuate violence. One of my biggest criticisms of the story—not just the show, but also the novel—is that it never unpacks what a violation that is on Wen Ning.

NiNi 

Basically, if he hadn't done what he did to Wen Ning, Jin Zixuan would still be alive.

Shan 

Yes, and Wen Ning would not be holding the guilt of having murdered him.

Bookworm

The Wen Ning situation is extremely tragic, but also there are two things that protected the Wen prisoners of war when they were sequestered in the Burial Mounds. One was the Yin Tally, the power of demonic cultivation or whatever. And the other, even though he was not intended for that purpose, once he was resurrected and once he was given the consciousness back and once people understood that he could be a weapon, I think it also protected them a little bit more. Around a year or so, they were able to survive on that mountain. And I really don't think in such a politically tense period, it would be possible to do that without a very obvious threat that they can just sort of unleash on people. It also backfired so spectacularly because his control can be just transferred to whoever wants to take it. 

The Wen Ning that we saw before he was transformed, this boy who tried to help everybody, was so sweet and very shy. Even when he wanted to learn things he was just sequestered. He was secluded, he didn't really interact with people because he knew that the Wen clan was not the greatest. You take that character and you turn him into basically just a walking nuke. 

Wei Wuxian: do first, think later. One of the things that really gets my goat is that after the massacre at the Qiongqi Path, he had the fucking audacity to go after Wen Ning. He woke up and he was like, “You murdered these people.” I will never forgive that man for that moment. I was like, what the hell are you talking about? OOF!

Shan 

It was brutal. Wen Ning's accidental murder of Jin Zixuan is what caused the entire Wen clan to turn themselves in and be exterminated. It is what led to Wen Ning being basically imprisoned and his mind taken over while Wei Wuxian was dead for 16 years. He was locked up with bolts in his fuckin’ head. They were experimenting on him. When Wei Wuxian was resurrected, he did liberate Wen Ning. But from there, Wen Ning had an extraordinarily lonely existence because he's the only one of his kind. His entire family is dead. 

And so, it was nice to see at the end him get some measure of peace by being reunited with A-Yuan again, finding Sizhui and being able to travel together and bond over their dead family and their connection to each other. But Wen Ning is indestructible and immortal and he is going to live a very lonely life. I wish the story had actually unpacked that in any way or Wei Wuxian had ever reckoned with his choices and how he harmed his friend.

NiNi 

To me the tragedy goes even further because the reason that Wen Ning is so protected at all by Wen Qing and others in the beginning is because he's already been hurt. When he was a child, he's already been attacked spiritually by, like, this fairy statue or whatever. So he's already weak. And in some ways it feels like Wei Wuxian thought that maybe he could make him strong, but he just ruined him even more. He does make him strong in a way that he wasn't strong before, but the tragedy of it is that he's a sweet, sweet kid that he turns into a monster. And Wen Ning never blames him for it. He is loyal to him till the end. 

Ben

Yeah, but again, how much of that is because he's been turned into a puppet or his natural tendency? We'll never know. 

Shan

We’ll never know. I love Wen Ning.

Ben

A lot of Wen Ning mentioned in this section, good job everybody!

38:07 The Second Life: Two “Fools”

NiNi 

If we’re talking about tragedy we gotta talk about the tragedy of Meng Yao and Lan Xichen at the end, because oh my god, he ruined that man. He destroyed him.

Bookworm 

All right, let's go! Round two!

Shan 

This is why I do not buy interpretations of canon that claim Meng Yao truly loved Xichen, because—

NiNi 

He did not.

Bookworm 

Mm-mm. Mm-mm.

Shan

—you do not do that to somebody you love. Absolutely not.

NiNi 

He loved that Lan Xichen loved him, but he did not love Lan Xichen.

Shan 

Exactly.

Bookworm 

He loved the influence that he had on Lan Xichen. He was so over the moon happy that he had this very influential man that he could just control and do whatever the fuck he wants with him.

Shan 

So this all culminated at Guanyin Temple when Nie Huaisang tricked Xichen, basically, into thinking Meng Yao was attacking him from behind. Xichen automatically activated his sword, stabbed Meng Yao. Meng Yao on his way out as he was dying, chose not to comfort Xichen, but instead to guilt trip him for killing him and not saving him. 

NiNi 

Walked down the fucking sword. He pushed the sword in deeper!

Bookworm 

He sure did.

NiNi 

Bitch!

Shan 

Brutal stuff, Xichen destroyed. We know that after this, he went into seclusion for several years to try to recover from the emotional blow of this happening to him. And that is how it was revealed that Nie Huaisang was the one behind all of this to get revenge for his brother.

NiNi

Xichen, man. Oh, my god.

Shan 

He’s tragic, but let’s talk about Huaisang. Oh my God, what a good reveal.

Bookworm 

Yes, let's talk about the only person who's really good at politics and only wanted to use it for own reasons, not for grabbing power or anything. I mean, it was implied at the end that he would rise to the top. That man knew how to play the game. But he would have just minded his own fucking business if nobody murdered his brother.

Ben

He just wanted to draw his porn and play with his fans.

Bookworm 

Yes! Yes!

NiNi

Gaslight gatekeep girlboss. That's what he was doing.

Shan 

He wanted to sit in the background gossiping, listening, collecting tea just for fun. But no, these bitches had to go murder his brother, and then he had to get involved.

Ben 

He understood what he was up against and his plan is really elegant and it works because he understands his friends. He knows that if Wei Wuxian comes back and you give him a little mystery to solve, this problem will sort itself out. [NiNi laughs]

Shan

He’s like, just point Wuxian at it! 

Ben

He's just like, all I need is to bring him back and Wangji has to find him first.

Bookworm

That’s it. 

Shan

And he gave them little nudges along the way to help them find the clues that they needed. He found and set up witnesses to be discovered. He was gathering all of the tea and making sure to strategically place it around where Wangji and Wuxian could find it.

Bookworm 

Do we see Nie Huaisang at the confrontation when all of this was unmasked by Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji at the Jin headquarters?

Shan 

He was not in the room.

NiNi 

He's not there. 

Bookworm 

See, so he saw the goddamn mess Jin Guangyao was able to make of that situation and then he was like, “you know what? I'm not gonna leave this to you bitches anymore.” And then he showed up at both the Burial Mounds and at the temple and he played both of those situations to how he wanted. He was like, “Su She, what are you doing? Why are you being weird?”

Shan 

The great thing about the reveal is when you go back and look at earlier scenes, he is in the background of so many crucial scenes where he is gathering information totally unobtrusively. You don't even notice he's there, but he is.

NiNi 

I notice, because I notice the fan. I always see the fan.

Ben

It's in the past too, like he's one of the people who picks up on the intensity of Wangji and Wei Wuxian's relationship. He doesn't have any aspirations about it, but he's clearly aware of it ‘cause he watches it happen.

NiNi 

Not just watches, I'm pretty sure that he showed Wei Wuxian the porn that he then shows to Lan Wangji. 

Ben 

He did.

Bookworm 

He did!

Shan

And there was that whole segment where he was tagging along on their date, bein’ a third wheel.

Bookworm 

That was so funny.

Ben 

He is relying upon them to help him achieve his ends here. But, like, they were also his friends.

Shan 

That is probably one of my favorite mystery reveals in drama. Very good shit.

Bookworm

Excellent. I remember being just gobsmacked with my jaw on the floor when I read the books and got to the reveal. Yeah, I just blacked out and my ears started ringing. I flashbacked everything that happened for the last five books and tried to figure out. It was so good. 

This is exactly why this show has really good rewatch value. Once you know all the information, you see from episode one how all of them connects. It's so satisfying.

44:14 The Second Life: Various Random Musings

NiNi 

Let's do the best moments in the second life in reverse. So, Ben, you go first.

Ben 

Wen Ning revealing the history of the core to Jiang Cheng. Honestly, the entire set of reveals around the end of the Yi City arc and the reveals at the Lotus Pier, because you get to see how fickle the politics of this era have been. As soon as some folks come forward with some information, everybody's like, “Oh my goodness me, oh no.” 

And I really love the confrontation where Jiang Cheng’s being a bitch again and Wen Ning is like, “I've had enough!” And reveals everything that's going on and you see how devastated Wangji is about this too, with him finally piecing together what was wrong with Wei Wuxian all this time. 

I also really like Wei Wuxian mentoring the juniors in Yi City. Because he's actually good at it. And it makes you sad for what Jiang Cheng was hoping he would get out of Wei Wuxian. Because Wei Wuxian actually is good with young people and good at teaching them stuff.

Shan 

He would have actually been a really good head disciple.

Ben 

Yeah, and it's what he wanted. He genuinely had no designs upon Jiang Cheng's legacy. He really wanted to just support him. He thought that maintaining the dynamic that their fathers had was going to be the best thing of his life. Which is what's so sad about it all.

NiNi 

I think my favorite moments actually are moments within those scenes that you're talking about. When everything goes down at Lotus Pier and Wen Ning spills the tea, there's a moment when Lan Wangji asks, “Was it painful?” And I just fucking broke. He's just found out that this man essentially sacrificed himself for his brother and never told anybody. And he's remembering all the times he got on his ass about it. And all he can think is, “Oh my god, did it hurt him when they did this, when he took out his core?” I was ruined, absolutely fucking ruined. 

And then the time that I giggled, I had a great time, is in the Yi City arc, when Lan Wangji is fighting Xue Yang and Wen Ning is fighting the puppets. And Wei Wuxian is like, well, what am I supposed to do? And then he sees the kids and he's like, “I can do that.” That was a great moment for me as well. 

But then my ultimate moment, and I've been obsessed with this moment since I saw it, is when they're back at Cloud Recesses after they've fled the Jin clan and Lan Xichen is hiding them. And he's talking to Wei Wuxian and Wei Wuxian is starting to think a little bit about what Lan Zhan means to him. And then Lan Zhan walks up, hair down and soft, with two bottles of Wuxian's favorite liquor. They should not be drinking in Cloud Recesses because it's one of their 3000 rules or whatever. He don't care. He loves his man. He missed his man. This man could get anything that he wants. So he comes up with two jugs of the Emperor's Smile and his hair all soft and sexy. And I'm like, “oh, they gone fuck tonight!” They did not, but they should have.

Shan 

[laughs] In our hearts they did.

Ben

Bookworm, favorite moments from the second life?

Bookworm 

One of my favorite movements is the one that I already talked about, the whole confrontation at the steps of the Jin manor when Lan Wangji says that he will walk the single plank path with Wei Wuxian. The reason why it's one of my favorites is, that line is the culmination of 16 years of regret. Lan Wangji was introduced to us as this extremely repressed and extremely by the book, follow the rules guy who grew up in this clan whose politics also seem to be, “We are not gonna do anything unless it becomes a direct and very visible active threat. We're not gonna get into the machinations of the dirty politics stuff. We're just gonna stay above it all.” And then this man sees how not commenting, not acting and letting it become a monster which they can then fight has consequences. And how him not questioning and blindly following all of those rules, how his entire upbringing basically led to the death and complete destruction of the love of his life. And then he had 16 fucking years in solitude regretting all of his actions. Then we finally see Wei Wuxian come back and we see the political world wanting to do the same thing once again to Wei Wuxian. He was like, “Bitch, no, not this time.” And he goes for it. That was such an amazing line and the whole arc of how it came about is why it's one of my favorites. 

Another one, this one's subtler. It's all the looks Jiang Cheng gives Wei Wuxian when they get to the Lotus Pier after their confrontation at the Burial Mounds. Like, he stops and looks at Wei Ying and Wen Ning before they enter, like, “Do you really think you can walk into this place?” And then Wen Ning just walks away. Then they get to the main hall and he turns around once again. And he's like, “Do you think I'm gonna let you into the throne room?”And then Wei Ying just sits on the steps without another word. 

That man is so good. Jiang Cheng’s actor.

Shan 

Let's put some respect on his name. Wang Zhuo Cheng is the actor's name and he is fantastic.

Bookworm 

Fantastic. So good. He is such a nuanced character and there's always at least three different emotions that he's feeling at any given moment. Every time it's just a complicated mess of things that's going on in his head and you can see him playing it out. The first time we see him interact with Wei Wuxian after he's resurrected, you see the doubt and you see that he suspects that this is Wei Wuxian. In that scene somewhere, there's a moment where you can see that he is hopeful but he's also just raging. You see that he's so mad and if he finds out that this is Wei Wuxian, he's gonna tear him apart. That's what that looks means. But he's also so sad that is what it has come to. That was his brother and now he wants to kill him, very rightfully so, but you see him just fighting all of those differing emotions inside him and you see it all on his face. 

Jiang Cheng, on the whole, that character is just extremely complicated, extremely tragic and he was played so beautifully.

Shan 

Y'all talked about some of my favorite moments already, but some additional ones that no one's mentioned yet. First of all, let me just give a shout out to second life Lan Wangji and his sense of humor. That man is fuckin’ funny. He is making fun of Wei Wuxian all the time after he's resurrected. It's so subtle, but it's so well done. I love every scene where he is basically mocking him for not remembering things from the past. [laughs] I love every scene where he's teasing him about, “Bitch, I know who you are because you played our love song as soon as you woke up.” But Wei Wuxian never figures it out. He does not understand that that is the reason Lan Wangji instantly knew who he was. I love all of those scenes.

NiNi 

And then at the end he's like, are we ever gonna give this song a title? And he's like, “Bitch, you really can't remember anything, do you?”

Shan 

Come on! [NiNi and Shan laughs] It already has a title.

Bookworm 

Obviously everybody would have caught it at this point, but in the first arc when they were stuck in the cave fighting the tortoise, when Wei Wuxian asks him what is the name of the song, you see him slowly drifting off, you see the scene blurring, but it is very clear that Lan Wangji mouths “Wangxian” at him, 

Shan 

Yeah, he says it. 

Bookworm

Which is is insane. Like how did they get it in?

Shan

I'm gonna give Wuxian a pass for not perceiving that because he was very feverish and passing out when he said it. When he resurrects in his second life, he doesn't know why he knows the song and he doesn't know where it's from. But it's, like, in his soul and he just plays it without even knowing why. That is why Wangji knows who he is immediately, despite the fact that in the book, he's in a completely different body. In the show, he's wearing that silly mask. All of the scenes connected to that are so funny to me. Obviously, there's a lot of comedy in the drunken shenanigans. 

The other part that I like about the second life arc is the moments where Wei Wuxian kind of gives himself away with his fantasies about Wangji. One of the most stark ones to me is, the only memory he has of his parents is of his mother riding the donkey while his dad leads the donkey down the road. And then we see Wuxian orchestrate recreating this moment with Wangji. He gets on Lil’ Apple and he has Wangji walking beside leading the donkey. And the show never actually comments on it, they just show you. It's so clear, like, in his mind, even when he is still not really fully clicked into his feelings, what his fantasies actually are about the life that he wants with Wangji. I love that. 

And then, this all culminates in the ultimate family moment of him realizing who Sizhui is. I fuckin’ love that scene at the end of the show where Sizhui runs up and tells Wei Wuxian that he knows who he is. And it finally clicks for Wuxian that this is A-Yuan. And without Lan Zhan saying a word, he puts it together that Wangji has rescued this kid who he was helping to raise in the Burial Mounds and raised him as his own son. And that he did that in large part for Wuxian. 

You just see the emotions over Wei Wuxian's face as he just puts this together and looks at Wangji. He starts crying. It's such a perfect, happy, joyful moment, him realizing A-Yuan is okay. He survived. He is this kid that he has already come to love as Sizhui, and then realizing that Wangji did that for him. It was beautiful. And then Sizhui clinging onto his leg and just being so happy to be reunited with his Xian-gege from his previous life. Such good shit! 

The show gives it away early on who Sizhui is. So it's not about a reveal there. It's about the emotional culmination of all of them finally putting together who they are to each other. One of my favorite moments in the whole show.

56:32 Page to Screen (and Audio, and Anime, and Stage, and...)

NiNi 

All right, we're three hours. We gotta wrap this up.

Ben 

The only thing I’ll mention in terms of other adaptations, there is an anime version of this, which better mimics the pacing and structure of the novelization. Also, the giggly version of Wei Wuxian that you get in the anime better reflects what I felt like I was reading. Though I do appreciate the way Xiao Zhan approached the character, who realized that all that giggling would be aggravating as hell. He instead does like a very peculiar smirk, which I think is a much better choice for the drama.

Shan

Yeah, it works better on the screen. In terms of story structure, I do prefer the novel structure. Intercutting between the present and flashbacks, it preserves the mysteries a lot better. The show, if you're paying close attention, you can solve everything far in advance because you're just given a lot more information in chronological order that you didn't have while reading the book. So, I do prefer the structure of the book for the mystery purpose. But the show, I think, made the right choices for a screen adaptation.

Bookworm 

We should probably talk about the ending.

Ben

I will say that I don't hate it. Considering the horrors that Twig and I have lived through in queer cinema and BL, they didn't brutally slaughter them or break them up in an unforgivable way at the end of the narrative. I think ending on an ambiguous note is one of the nicest things that this show did for these characters considering the censored nature of this. Everybody who follows any amount of lore knows this is based upon a novel that's way spicier. By not ending on a dour note, I think it makes the curious audience more likely to go read the novels if they want to see what the explicit romance looks like. And I think that's an overall good choice considering the obstacles they were up against. I don't think it's great, but I'm not mad about it. 

The whole show is censored, we know a romance is occurring, but technically one isn't.

Shan 

Bookworm, how did you feel about it?

Bookworm 

Like I said before, I am very used to watching stories culminate in a very ambiguous ending. I've seen so many movies, just ends in a shot of like, I don't know, two people standing staring into the distance. Like Ben said, you are aware that this is a censored BL. That is one of the things that impacts how you receive this ending a lot. 

I read the books first, I could see all of the things that they had to walk around to make this get through the censors but also make an effort to depict the romance in any way they can. When I got to the ending, I will be honest, I started screaming—

Shan 

You did, I was there. It was actual screaming.

Bookworm 

When he stopped Wei Ying, and Wei Ying turns around and they go into the song, I was heartbroken. I was so mad. At that point, I have all the information. I know that they're not gonna end how they ended in the books. But still, it was so heartbreaking to watch this man walk away from Wei Wuxian. It is such an out of character moment. There is no way the Lan Wangji that I read about and the Lan Wangji that was depicted in the show for so long would walk away from Wei Wuxian. 

When we eventually got to the end of the song and Lan Zhan calls Wei Wuxian’s name and he just turns around and we end on this frame where we assume that Wei Wuxian sees him and just breaks into the smile… there was no other ending where the art could survive and get to its audience.

I'm sad that we did not see the actual story, but it was left open to our imagination that Lan Wangji found him again and they're gonna get back together, and I was happy with that.

Shan

Almost every cdrama ends this way. And this includes het cdramas, not just queer ones. Where, if a character has been morally gray, if a character has used magic, if a character has done anything that precludes them from being a perfect, pure person, they're not going to get a happy ending. They're going to get an ambiguous ending. This is just how cdramas work. So, I read the ending as exactly what needed to happen to get this show to air. 

Absolutely, there's no way in hell that Wangji would ever become the chief cultivator because he fuckin’ hates clan politics and he's bad at it. No way that he would ever do this or that anyone would ever want him to. But I recognized that instantly as Chinese nationalism rearing its head for censorship reasons. He needed to devote himself to the state. He had to separate from Wei Wuxian because they weren't allowed to have a happy ending because they use magic and because they did morally gray things. Wei Wuxian had to go and wander the world alone to atone for his sins, quote unquote. These are all really classic censorship things.

I feel strongly that the creators of this show trusted the fans to know why they needed to do these things and to just brush off the pieces of it that don't make sense and understand the real ending. Outside of the trappings of the plot of what happened there, we saw them exchange these meaningful looks. They did a fucking duet together. And then we end on this beautiful scene of Wei Wuxian standing on a cliff playing their song and turning around after hearing Wangji call his name. And smiling as his eyes fill with tears. That is a gorgeous ending. I am so impressed that they were able to work that in in a way that would not preclude the other things they needed to do for censorship reasons.

NiNi 

I'm annoyed, I'm just gonna say it, but I also know why it happens. But the fact that it ends ambiguously is not what bothers me. I really just do not believe that Lan Wangji would ever take over the clan or that he would let Wei Wuxian leave while he did it. It just doesn't fly for me even with everything going on with Lan Xichen. To me they should have just ended where they see Wen Ning and Lan Sizhui off and then they could have just ridden off into the sunset. 

Shan

Yeah, they definitely could not do that for censorship reasons, but I hear you.

NiNi 

I know, I feel like that's the ending I would have been the most satisfied with. Even if the last shot of them was just of them there, standing together and Lan Wangji giving him that look that says we have to part or Wei Wuxian walking away and Lan Wangji standing there, even that would have been more ambiguous to me because I could have spun it in my head as “oh, he's just watching his man walk away and then he's going to run and catch up with him.” But the whole part where he goes back to the clan and he becomes the clan leader, that just doesn't fly with me.

Bookworm 

NiNi, you know what the fix for this is. You just have to read the books. That's the plug.

Shan 

Read the books and a long list of fanfic that I will be sending you later today.

Bookworm

Yes.

NiNi 

Already, Twig has provided, I have read the smutty parts of the books, thank you, Twig. So I have read the full and proper ending and I am quite satisfied with that. And Shan is gonna send me a list of fics, so I’m fine. I'm not a fic girl usually, but in this story it's absolutely necessary. Just too many gaps that I need to fill.

Shan

That's why there are 50,000 fanfics on AO3 for this show. [laughs]

Bookworm 

There are so many fanfics. At one point you read so many of them that you forget what's canon and what's fanon. That's how it goes.

NiNi 

I'm waiting for Shan to curate me a list.

Bookworm 

I do wanna include an earnest plug for the books, though. I think the creators want you to, they've done their best.

Shan 

Yeah, they want you to go there.

Bookworm 

Exactly, they want you to go to the books. And without spoiling much of it, if you want a little bit motivation to go to the books, Lan Wangji only gets drunk once in the show. It happens so many times in the books. 

NiNi 

More than once, more than once. He passes out a few times.

Shan 

He does, but there are more extended drunken shenanigan scenes in the book. There are several.

Bookworm

The wall slowly comes down. Wei Wuxian gets slowly just unraveled, trying to understand what the fuck is going on with Lan Zhan, why is he acting like this when he's drunk? Those are my favorite sequences and I hope it convinces you to go read the books.

NiNi 

Between now and May it's textbooks and case studies. After that we'll see what happens.

Bookworm 

I'm talking to the people, NiNi. I'm also in the same graduate school hell with you.

Ben 

Begging the listeners to go read the books.

Shan

Go read these damn books.

01:07:04 Afterlife: The Impact of The Untamed on BL and Fandom

Ben

We're living in the post-Untamed world. This show brought a shit ton of people to BL who had not been here before. And a bunch of people who had not engaged with Chinese daytime dramas, probably ever, genuinely started watching them after this. Despite how the censors may feel about a queer/not queer work being so popular, this show has had a huge impact on many people's willingness to engage with Chinese media. After the addicted stuff, we had basically written off China. And The Untamed, even five years later, continues to be the reason why people keep hoping that the Chinese creative teams will be able to get more stories to us.

The downside of all of this, fans are still super feverish about this. And AO3 ends up getting banned in China.

Shan 

There was, as always happens in fandom, people writing real person fiction about the actors instead of fan fiction about the characters. And Xiao Zhan's fans got very upset about people posting smutty real person fiction about him.

Ben 

We've talked about some of the fan issues with getting overly possessive about the idols and the actors. This is part of what the party cracked down on. After Word of Honor maybe pushed the envelope too far and the ensuing drama after that, we haven't really gotten much big Chinese BL since then. We started seeing more of it again last year, but there are still projects from, like, 2020 that have been shelved that we've been hoping get released to us. 

It's complicated because you can tell that the powers that be want the attention and tourism associated with it, but it doesn't conform to some of their civic management goals. It's not like the Chinese people are any different than everyone else in the world. They eat the fuck out of BL. Like, they're the primary consumers of 2gether. So, I don't know.

Shan 

There's been a real dearth of quality Chinese BL since. The few productions that started to come out last year are mostly being produced in other countries like in Singapore or in Hong Kong. We're starting to see danmei productions and adaptations happening in Thailand or in Taiwan, that's how these things are getting made now. 

Despite that, the fandom around this show is immense. It is not slowing down. The books have been out for 10 years. The show has been out for six years. New fans still find it every day. Create new fan works every day. New meta all the time. New fanfic all the time. It endures. This is a story that has really connected with people globally. It's something pretty amazing to see.

NiNi 

I would like to personally thank Xiao Zhan and Wang Yibo in particular. Because sirs, you did what you needed to do.

Shan 

Amen, sister.

NiNi 

And what you needed to do was break my heart on a regular basis and be extremely attractive while doing it. Good job.

Ben

I'm really surprised by how much the show succeeded. They did not have a lot of money. They were filming in kind of unsafe ways, two people literally died making this show. But it's kind of wild how much genuine talent they got on this production. Like, nobody's really slacking on this. It's a really impressive project considering this is a web drama.

It's hard to really give final thoughts on the show. I just end up incredibly impressed by what they managed to pull off.

NiNi 

I think to close, I will just say a short summary of everything we've just talked about as follows: The Untamed is a story about an itinerant, freelance, accidental genocidal maniac and the man who pays all his bills and defends his life. And it's amazing. And you should go watch it. That's all we have to say.

Shan

It's a must watch, I think, from The Conversation.

NiNi 

What's the point of even rating it? 

Ben 

Yeah, it's not one that I really wanna give a real rating to. Under the Ben scope, it'd be like a 9. Most people should watch it.

Shan 

Yeah, it kind of transcends that ratings thing that we normally do. If you care about BL, if you care about queer media, if you care about Asian drama, you should watch this show. It's foundational.

Bookworm 

This is a very carefully constructed narrative with so many moving parts. And I think that's the appeal. It just gives you so much to noodle on. Don't be scared that this will not be your cup of tea.

Shan

You'll find something to love.

Bookworm

There is so much going on that something will grab you and you will just be forever obsessed with the story. Go watch it or go read it and then come talk to us about it. Tag us.

NiNi

That is going to wrap us up after three hours and 20 minutes of unedited time on—

Ben 

I'm so hungry.

NiNI

—The Untamed.

Shan 

We did pretty good!

NiNi 

I've been chomping on grapes this entire time, thank god.

Bookworm 

I have to go make dinner. 

NiNi

Alright, we out. Say bye to the people, Bookworm.

Bookworm

Bye people!

NiNi 

Say bye to the people, Shan. 

Shan 

Bye, y'all.

NiNi

Say bye to the people, Ben.

Ben

Peace!

[canmom]

Hello! I absolutely love your blog, everything from your festival recounts to animation analysis and programming (one of tumblr's recommended posts was the one where you made your own rasteriser, and I liked your attitude in what I've read so much that I'm gonna attempt to conquer my 3-year-long grudge against using opengl during college and do something similar now that I'm a bit older and have no deadlines :D).

But anyway, I have 2 questions (sorry if there's easily accessible answers, tumblr search is not helping): 1. During your animation nights, does the screen stay black while everyone watches their own video while you provide commentary? I haven't caught any yet but maybe someday! And 2. do you have any youtube channels or just one-off video essays that you like that also cover animation/directors? Or, even programming lol.

Sorry for the long ask have a nice day!

hiii! i'm very touched that you like my dorky eclectic blog <3

For the Animation Nights, I just stream the video over Twitch from local sources on my computer, typically by playing the video in mpv and recording it in OBS. This is obviously not ideal from a video quality perspective, but it's the easiest way to watch video in sync without making everyone download files in advance. Then we all chat in the Twitch chat box (in large part to crack stupid jokes, it's not that highbrow lmao). I've gotten away with it so far!

As for youtube channels, I can recommend...

anime production/history (i.e. sakuga fandom)

SteveM is likely the most sakuga-fan affiliated anituber. He makes long, well-researched and in-depth videos on anime history, usually themed around a particular director or studio.

Pyramid Inu might be my fave anituber - very thoughtful analysis of Gundam, obscure mecha anime and oldschool BL and similar topics. tremendously soothing voice too.

The Canipa Effect does excellent deep dives into the production of specific shows, both western and anime. I appreciate the respect he gives to the Korean animators of shows like AtlA in particular!

Sean Bires's 2013 presentation on sakuga is pretty foundational to this whole subcultural niche, and a great place to get an introduction to the major animator names to know and significant points in the history of anime. unfortunately a couple of the segments got slapped down by copyright but the rest holds up!

animation theory (for animators and aspirants)

I'm going to focus here on resources that are relevant to animation in general, and 2D animation. if I was going to list every Blender channel we'd be here all week :p

New Frame Plus is one of the best channels out there for game animation, describing in tightly edited videos how animation principles work in a game context and analysing the animation of various games. highly recommend

Videogame Animation Study is similar, examining the animation of specific games in detail

the 'twelve principles of animation' (defined by Disney's Ollie Johnston and Frank Thomas) remain the standard approach to animation pedagogy; there are various videos on them, but Alan Becker (of Animator vs Animation) has quite a popular series. I haven't actually watched these but many people swear by them! Dermot O'Connor expands the list to 21. Note that some of the terminology can be a little inconsistent between different animators - c.f. 'secondary motion'...

Dong Chang is an animator at Studio NUT, who produces a lot of fantastic, succinct videos on standard techniques in the anime industry, timesheet notations, etc. etc. Studio Bulldog, a small anime studio, are a good complement; they focus more on douga than genga and are generally a bit more traditional.

programming

big topic here, I'm going to focus on game dev and tech art since that's my field. but also some general compsci stuff that's neat

SimonDev - graphics programmer with a bunch of AAA experience, fantastic explanations of advanced optimisations and some of the more counterintuitive aspects of rendering

Acerola - graphics programmer who makes very detailed guides to a variety of effects with a very rapid and funny 'guy that has seen monogatari' editing style. When he's good, he's really good. His video on water is probably the best one I've seen (though I can recommend a couple of others).

TodePond - the most charming, musical videos about recursion and cellular automata you've ever seen. less programming tutorial and more art in themselves.

Ben Eater - known for his breadboard computer series, a fantastic demonstration of how to go from logic gates up to the 6502 with actual hardware. worth watching just for how clean he puts the wires on his breadboards like goddamn man

Sebastian Lague, Useless Game Dev - both do 'coding adventure' style videos where they spend a few weeks on some project and then document it on Youtube, resulting in a huge library of videos about all sorts of fascinating techniques. great to dive into

Freya Holmér - creator of the 'shapes' library, makes videos on mathematical programming, with gorgeously animated vector graphics. Her video on splines is a particular treat.

There are definitely many more channels I can recommend on these subjects, but I'll need to dig into my history a bit - unfortunately I need to rush out right now, but hopefully that should be good to be getting going with!

[radioregine]

WRITEBLR INTRO xx

hey, all! i’m n.k. :-)

i'm not new to tumblr (have had a few diff accounts since 2011/2012), but i'm new to interacting with writeblr proper. 

ABOUT ME

late 20s

black & queer & disabled 

lifelong writer/musician/creative (in both professional and hobbyist capacities)

finally finishing my degree in creative writing & english! 

ARTISTIC/THEMATIC INTERESTS 

literary fiction, horror, camp, kitsch, diversity, introspection, family/friend bonds (especially nontraditional ones), romance, art rock, nostalgia, technology, diy ethos 

GOALS

connect with the tumblr writing community at large! for a while i was unable to get excited about my non-work, non-fanfic related writing projects. over the past year or so, my passion’s been renewed, and i just wanna chatter with like-minded folks about my longform WIPs, my short stories, etc – and geek over other people’s work here too <3

WIPS 

Dagmar

there’s always something going down in dagmar, an insular coastal community straddling the delaware bay. pragmatic tech geek zeke omezie-fumudoh, 18, prefers to keep her head in her books and projects – deaths and disappearances were common in her parents’ home country, too, after all. when her best friend dodie dies, however, zeke has no choice but to start trying to connect the dots & face the potential supernatural forces at play. 

[this is finna be dark fantasy/horror, romance, mystery, and queer as hell! i got a lot of worldbuilding to do, but a few months ago the twist popped into my head 1st and i’ve been working backwards. i'm sooo excited abt figuring out the narrative path(s) i gotta take]

Dave & The Family Davenport

20-year-old twin musicians dorian & daria davenport are a little s club 7, a little sly stone, & a whole lotta spitfire. as the very first act signed to holliday records, 30-something producer & label founder dave levine considers it his duty to take the family davenport under his wing. they become his pet project – and eventually something more to him. 

[i’m taking this one in a literary/drama direction! thinking found family and music industry commentary vibes. idea came from revisiting big time rush and thinking ‘what would happen if you mix btr + the carpenters + prince + mtv’s making the band??’ (for the record, dave is 100% NOT meant to be a p. d*ddy analogue re: making the band, i'm mainly thinking of the aesthetics of the young artists of color featured on the show)]

Several fun essays about my personal fandom/shipping history (one is about all the diff sites i've used over 17+ years of reading/writing fanfic, another is an old-school livejournal-style ship manifesto that i plan to make into a video! etc etc)

SHORT FICTION 

blank [literary/drama, 300 wds]

fortune teller [literary/drama, 300 wds]

hothouse [horror, 500 wds]

a certain standard of care [horror-comedy/surreal/gross-out, 1k wds]

good bones (or, an exercise in letting go) [literary/dramedy, 1.3k wds]

[writing tag: scorpio the scribe]

hmu if you think we'd get along <3 i need more ppl to follow!

[ETA: i prefer to follow/be mutuals w/ ppl 18+ only, ty!]

[lilythelitten]

“Lily!” I hear you all gasp in shock. “You changed your PFP!”

Indeed I did, and here is the full art! Which I had to shrink slightly to make it look good in my profiles :P

Artist commentary below the cut:

Those of you who have read The Case of 100% Normal Feelings (which is my fic with the most hits—thank you, everybody!) will know I HC Irratino as needing glasses. That is pure headcanon, and also pure projection, on the part of me, who both has curly hair and is nearsighted in real life. I also HC he normally wears contacts, but for this art, I gave him glasses because…I could XD The ponytail was done for similar reasons. It’s kind of incredible how just giving him glasses and a ponytail makes Irratino look like a totally different person!

(By the way—if you see any mention of Irratino wearing glasses in other fanfics? That’s not the fandom sharing a single brain cell. That came from me. That is them taking inspiration from me. I’m so proud *sheds tear*)

I’m still not sure about this one, frankly. I feel like the head’s too big for the body (and that the proportions feel off in general), and the hand was an absolute pain. Partway through the sketch, I wanted to scrap the whole thing and start over ^^; But hey, it’s done, and I’m proud enough of it to make it my new profile pic, at least XD (I also said I wasn’t going to draw the ears next time so I wouldn’t have to draw stars, and then I drew him in a ponytail and forced myself to draw the star. I did that to myself. I am not ashamed to admit I used the symmetry ruler to make it look semi-decent :P)

I think if I had to say, my favorite thing about this drawing are the glasses. They came out beautiful, if I do say so myself 😌 Though drawing the folds in his shawl was also fun. As was getting to glitter up his hair tie ^^ Anyway, that’s all from me, maybe one day I’ll reach the hallowed ranks of “likes looking at her own art” XD

[prettyoddfever]

P!ATD on MTV Live (November 16, 2006)

The band was in Toronto for the Nothing Rhymes With Circus Tour so they did interviews & performances for both Much on Demand and MTV Live on the same day. Their current single was Lying is the Most Fun, so they performed acoustic versions of that song.

MTV Live aired at 6:30pm, so the band went right there after doing their MOD appearance. Spencer wasn't at either of those. The band made a joke on MTV Live about how Spencer was "doing his solo project right now" so that kind of became a joke in the fandom for a short time. Here's that moment:

Anyways, here are some pictures from the soundcheck & performance:

The main fan commentary after this performance seemed to revolve around how much Ryan's voice had improved this year. This whole acoustic performance was genuinely gorgeous:

My favorite part of the interview was how they had been trying to save face for Brent & his drug issues for the past several months, but then Jon said "Brent" in reply to the question at 02:19 and Brendon absolutely loses it lol (he'd been through a lot with the Brent drama). And I love how Ryan says a ton while saying very little...

The AFYCSO box set had been released on November 14th so they were promoting that.

The band also did a big actual show that evening too.

[summer-lovin-09]

Do you think Louis has any say in who he’s linked to? I’m really still in shock about this pairing and disappointed doesn’t even begin to describe how I feel. How does he come back from this in terms of general perception of his values?

Whew! This ask was not on my bingo card today lol. I’ll try to answer with as much critical thinking and nuance as I possibly can. <3

Let me preface by saying the following:

If you’re looking for a cut-and-dry reply, I’m afraid I can’t give it to you. I’m a big advocate for gray area; however, I also try not to let bias take control of my discernment. I cannot speak with full confidence on this subject because there is simply so much that I, and the fandom, are ignorant of (not by our own will, but it’s still a fair assessment).

There’s also so much that we could never understand/comprehend. The majority of us are apart of the masses. We are not in the limelight nor have we experienced the claws of celebrity-level closeting. I’m sure, especially dealing with this as young as H & L have, that the level of intrinsic change that had to happen is astronomical. Nobody undergoes/survives this sort of trauma without having to bend their own morals and values/make sacrifices they normally wouldn’t.

Always remember that we are not the victims in this situation. We can make commentary and feel all the emotions, but the repercussions of all of this falls back on Louis. In the end, he’s the one losing the most in this situation. (This is not to say that the sensationalism of conservative politics is not harmful to those affected. I am well aware of why people are upset. I share the same sentiments and concerns. I just don’t want to misplace my anger) ❤️

Onto what you’re actually here for:

I’m hard-pressed to say that he may have some authority in the decision-making process for stunts but not enough that blame (for the result) can be solely placed on him. I think that Louis is given very little control but may have some influence on the direction that a stunt takes him in.

For example, he may be given people that he can choose from, which, therefore, gives him the ability to veto (and possibly select the “lesser evil”)

Or

He may be allowed to make general requests that align with his personal plans. Management then assigns him a girl accordingly. (With their own agenda in mind, too)

Zara, as we know, is very immersed in film/reality tv, so it’s possible that Louis stipulated this aspect of her life to drive forth his own goals (or his sisters’). This is completely removed from her values and merely encompasses her career persona and the connections it brings. I’m speculating here, but it’s likely that he’s not permitted to pick out fine details such as political affiliation.

Essentially, what I am thinking, is that he’s making the best of a shitty situation. Except, he can’t completely contain the backfire.

I know many people have discussed how detrimental this move actually is to him (considering his large Latin American fan base), but I wouldn’t put it past them (management) to lean into the rise of conservatism that is sweeping the major superpowers of the world. I mean, they had no problem painting him as a homophobe. Why wouldn’t they take it a step further and align him with a xenophobe as well?

However, if this is not strategical and it’s just happenstance, I could see this unintentionally being very damaging to his public perception and reputation. It’s hard to say how he would navigate regaining the trust of certain fans. The only thing I can really hope for is that people see past the bs and put their faith in him. Unfortunately, I don’t know that he would ever be allowed to come out with a clear and unambiguous statement that disassociates him from her views.

I repeat: I am speculating. Take my iterations with a grain of salt.

—————————

I end this long-winded reply with a few things to consider:

We have known Louis (in the capacity that we can) for 15 years. In that time, he has proven the type of person that he is. Never has he given me the impression that his heart is full of hatred and bigotry. He has always been the type to stand up for the underdog because he’s been one before. He grew up humbly, and I feel as though those experiences have shaped the way he views the world.

He’s proven himself to be kind and vulnerable with his fans of all nationalities, races, genders, and sexual identities. I feel that a month-long (so far) stunt isn’t enough to convince me that he’s not the very same man he’s always been.

I don’t know the direction that things are headed or the undeniable intentions set for this stunt yet because it’s still so new, so maybe more will be revealed in time, making things clearer. I’m just as lost as everyone else tbh. I’m just putting pieces together where I think they fit best. My best advice is to keep a good and clear head on your shoulders, be critical of the media, and never make firm assumptions with pieces of the puzzle missing.

I hope that this is comprehensive enough for you, anon. I’m so sorry if I rambled or you’re confused with my train-of-thought at any point. Please feel free to send in another ask if you see fit. I understand your frustration, and I’m so sorry that you’ve become disappointed and discouraged. I hope this gives you some peace of mind. At the very least, I hope it gives you something to think about.

Much love,

Lay 💛

[vacantgodling]

story base idea tag

thank u @space-writes for tagging me! i could do this for all my wips but tbh i think i'll just stick to the main three unless other people really REALLY wanna know lol.

Rules: share the original base ideas for your WIPs

the fun thing about my main three wips is that they all have handy dandy inspo pages i made in their powerpoint intros, so:

BETWIXT THUMB & FOREFINGER

the very obvious inspiration for btaf is twilight--specifically bella's pregnancy arc bc that shit traumatized me. its hilarious because, spoiler for everyone, i never actually read the twilight books. i know everything about twilight through osmosis and the bits of the movis and pop culture and video essay's i've watched about it. it was also inspired by my love of history and gothic literature in general--i went on a whole crusade 2023 reading gothic books and it was (mostly) great (still looking at you trilby you suck ASS). but i put wuthering heights as the main inspiration for btaf too bc a bunch of horrible people in a mansion is sorta the crux of that book. if those of y'all know some of the Deep Ren Lore, y'all know i unintentionally got a wuthering heights fandom blog to deactivate when i pointed out that their bait poll was just a bunch of gender essentialist bullshit and that heathcliff's character is p fucking racist /shrug. wuthering heights actually isn't my favorite book in the world and i've liked it even less as i've aged, but as they say--hating something spawns brilliant work or something like that. the final inspo for btaf was actually roe v wade overturning. i wasn't directly thinking of making a pro choice book until i started the whole historical twilight shit, but if i'm going to make an entire book about pregnancy (basically) then its either gonna have to swing one way or the other and like. very obviously i'm going to swing for pro choice. but the choice aspect of the narrative evolved and grew in many many ways that expand beyond just pregnancy and get more into the realm of transgenderisms and body autonomy and all that fun shit. this book is literally just a bunch of metaphors and commentary in a gothic trench coat.

PARAMOUR

its been awhile since i waxed poetics about paramour but best believe i am still unhinged about it. hilariously, the original idea for paramour was a sort of beauty and the beast retelling with a heaping dosage of crimson peak. but then hya became an asshole AUOFXBJCZK and that ruined all my plans (for the better). everything else that i've listed as inspo has been sorta added after the fact, but generally speaking that's where paramour started. it was also supposed to be a ghost story??? like amon instead of being just a butler was supposed to be a ghost who's body was stolen by what became the keeper too LMAO like it was a lot. it actually used to be called “beauty and the crimson hamlet” WAAAY back in the day if anyone remembers that lmao. there was also some hamlet inspo in there too bc of the whole hya had to figure out what was going on with this body snatching ghost pff. either way, i’m glad paramour is where it is Now bc it’s my darling

HE WHO SMITES THE SUN

the original idea was the rape of persephone + the mongols (history) + sibling relationship + transgenderism. and honestly? this is the main story that’s truly stuck to its origins from Day One lmao—i’ve just expanded the worldbuilding, connected it to other wips, and then started conlanging out of my MIND.

so i’ll tag @kudzucataclysm @multi-lefaiye @henrike-does-writing-sometimes @sergeantnarwhalwrites @kiennwrites & anyone else that’d like to do this :3

[whencartoonsruletheworld]

I have to admit the reveal that glitchtrap was the mimic was a p good twist like I vividly remember when hw came out and the fandom collectively went ???

Apparently the Mimic is controversial rn and you know what I'm gonna out myself as a HUGE Mimic fan. I'm obsessed with this little freak. I LOVE the narrative implications of him. I love the commentary on the dangers of AI. I love the metaphor for the cycle of abuse. But at the same time and in contrast, I ESPECIALLY love the fact that it basically became an antithesis to the idea of "cycling the same story over and over." We all thought Willy-boy escaped HELL but no! He's just a normal bitch who's still over there! The Mimic is just a copycat trying to make the original story happen again and the new characters will be fighting to break the narrative cycle. How fucking COOL is that for a sequel villain??? I fucking love it

also.... i dont remember if it was Cori or North who pointed this out to me, but it's pretty sick how the original video game's premise, if you missed the ghost newspapers, was that the animatronics were malfunctioning AI who didn't realize they weren't doing their jobs, and now the Mimic is doing the same thing. The Mimic Epilogues specifically rely on the Mimic not being able to tell humans from endoskeletons. It's so fucking cool