#palworld vs pokemon

[crocsanddocs]

oh

[wild-saber1337]

THE DRAMA CONTINUES XD (artist: drawmandude)

Ok the drama with pokemon and palworld is ridiculous, in my opinion palworld is a great game that is legally distinct from Pokemon and yes some pals look like certain pokemon but that's the point they are poking fun at Pokemon by not copying them but the pals are inspired by them, it's the same argument you can make about Voltron and power rangers they have multiple robot animals that combined into a bigger robot so dose that mean power rangers ripped off Voltron no it doesn't.

[mr-rogers-blood-stained-sweater]

Seing more drama on palworld of all thing because its hitting its 2 week playerbase drop off that every steam game hits and more people are using it as slander. I understand palword had an unusually hard drop but its the second most played game of all time on steam AND IT DOESNT HAVE FUNCTIONING MULTIPLAYER this is to be expected people are finishing the game and the devs havnt gotten pvp or multiplayer fleshed out yet cause its 3 people. I understand SOME of the plagarism arguments especially that palworld took HEAVY artistic inspiration on some of the pokemon but to this date there has been no actual evidence of models lining up or polygons matching, it has to overlap 1 to 1 it cant just "fit inside" thats silly, objects dont always have set ratios and sizes when modelling.

TL:DR please watch this video by a youtuber i really like who will explain it in better terms. https://youtu.be/wmudV7_CvNE?si=i0CixtVWwBcdJd6P

[koco-bean]

reminder that if you like p/a/l/w/o/r/l/d every single character from pokemon hates you

[cloudedskies29]

I'm a huge Pokemon fan n all, and i do think some of the criticism towards Palworld is completely fair & founded but..

Palworld is so enjoyable, and recent pokemon games haven't even come close to being this fun. Not even legends arceus, which i really enjoyed. Even other pokemon "rip-offs" suffer from this issue of turning into this repetitive boring experience. Palworld hasn't had this issue for me because holy shit. what the fuck. leafeon 2.0 has a gun

[creativemaniacshenanigans]

Greapdragahog

A Fusion of: Negasus (Yo-Kai Watch), Snapdragon (Plants vs Zombies), Jolthog (PalWorld), and Greavard (Pokemon)

Element: Shady, Wind, Vanguard, Neutral, Normal, Ghost, Dark, Ground, Psychic, Fairy, Fire, Electric, Ice, Water and Rock

Capabilities: Pickup, Fluffy, Chomp, Tornado, Negasus Waves, Negasus Curse, Hanging In, Dragon's Breath, Combat Training, Stronger Breath, Cell Activation, Ability Awaken, Fighting Power, Fire Dragon Breath, Jolt Bomb, Hooligan, Musclehead, Ferocious, Burly Body, Brave, Lord of Lightning, and Lv. 1 Generating Electricity

Resident to: Poison, Bug, Water, and Enemy Inspirits

Immune to: Normal, & Fighting

Natural Diet: They're Omnivores

Related to: Neighogavard, Shiny Greapdragahog, Shiny Neighogavard, Coldcrystal Greapdragahog, and Coldcrystal Neighogavard

Natural Habitat: Caverns, Dungeons, Grasslands, Nearing Rivers, Forests, Ruins, Mountains, Snowy Areas, Pirate Areas, and Shopping Districts

[wet-toast-slime]

Breaking it to you, but PalWorld is also its own game with its unique quirks. So maybe stop cluttering up the tag with your unwanted hate and let people have fun.

my dude if you even looked at my tags you would see i didn't tag it as palworld of any kind but my rambles and my own opinion. also does not stop palworld's devs from having a palgarism problem ✌️

you do you, never said palworld sucked nor does it detract from the fun ppl have, but you also need to be critical about things you love too. both things can exist

[infinitepurity]

gotta scream about palworld

[changeling-droneco]

I know there definitely are rip-offs in like, palworld, but poketubers will really look at a generic blue dinosaur and go "thats a pokemon rip off thats amaura" like no its just a generic blue dinosaur

You vs the man she tells you not worry about

[crocsanddocs]

[feministmetalgreymon]

The reality behind the Palworld vs Pokemon contreversy

I have been a lifelong Pokemon fan. And one thing I have observed is there are two kinds of Pokemon fans.

One type of Pokemon fan is what I call the sane fans. They acknowledge Pokemon is one game in a long line of monster taming games. They may like or prefer Pokemon over other monster taming franchises but they acknowledge those franchises legitimacy rather than dismissing them as Pokemon clones and rip offs.

The other type is the insane Pokemon fans. These are the people who will insist, despite evidence to the contrary, that Pokemon is the first and only original monster taming game. And accuse any monster taming game of being a Pokemon rip off. If a monster taming franchise looks like it might be become popular they immediately lie about it and slander it. And if it doesn't become a "Pokemon Killer" they deride it as a failure that wasn't as good as Pokemon.

I have seen these insane Pokemon fans attack any monster taming game including franchises that predate Pokemon like Shin Megami Tensei and Dragon Quest. When Tem Tem came out they swarmed social media with accusations that Tem Tem was just a lazy Pokemon clone. And now they want people to take them seriously when they call Palworld a Pokemon rip off. Yeah sure.🙄

Palworld isn't even in the same game genre as Pokemon let alone being a Pokemon clone. Palworld is a survival crafting game with a monster taming mechanic. The Pals you tame aren't just used for fighting like in Pokemon. They are also used for chores like crafting, farming, building and gathering resources. The only similarities Pokemon and Palworld shares is a small number of vaguely similar parody designs.

The only thing that has changed is that now that the Pokemon games have declined in quality. Fewer people are willing to take the insane Pokemon fans seriously. When Game Freak released Pokemon Scarlet and Violet and it was a broken buggy mess. That was a wake up call to the Pokemon fandom. They realized that blindly worshipping a billionaire dollar corporation was a bad idea. And so they started trying other monster collecting franchises like Digimon, Nexomon, Cassette Beast, Dragon Quest Monsters and now Palworld.

They realized that they were missing out on a lot of good games by worshipping Pokemon and insisting it's the best just because it's more popular. And that's when Palworld came along.

You want a monster taming game where you fight alongside your monsters. Palworld has it. You want to use your monsters for more than just fighting. Palworld has it. You want a large and challenging open world. Palworld has it. You want to play with your friends. Palworld has it. You want to build a base and watch as your monsters perform tasks. Palworld has it. You want creature breeding mechanics that aren't slow and tedious grinding. Palworld has it. You want deep creature raising sim mechanics. Palworld has it.

Despite all of the attempts to accuse Palworld of "plagiarizing" Palworld. Palworld has improved drastically on the Pokemon formula and has added more interactivity and depth to it. This is why insane Pokemon fans hate Palworld. They can't argue that Palworld has worse gameplay than Pokemon. So instead they make the issue about "originality".

"Originality" has nothing to do with how good or well done a game is. But it works as a distraction from debates about quality. By making the Palworld debate about originality they don't have to discuss how broken and buggy the Pokemon games are. Nor acknowledge any of the improvements and advances Palworld has made to the monster taming genre. Instead the debate becomes about who did what first.

The reality is it doesn't matter who did what first, what matters is who did it best.

[ultravioart]

The hangyu fan design stealing was disproven, but this Mega Delphox design that predates Palworld absolutely was lifted from a fandesign to make the Pal Wixen.

I will not be reposting the artists fan design, please click the link and give eyes/credit to the original fanartist!

Pyroaura98/EtherealHaze made this Mega Delphox fan design art prior to 2014, but this post was made in 2014. Either way it predates Palworld (announced 2021).

And this is the Pal design Wixen

Many fan made megas for Delphox include a hat, but Wixen is obviously taking from the design EtherealHaze made because:

-The red hair strands flow into the red hat, a very unique/distinct design element of the EtherealHaze's fan design.

-The red hat incorporates the ears into it as red, just like EtherealHaze's design (most other fan designs for mega delphox leave the ears seperate and a different color)

-The orange triangle chest fur.

-The white paws INSIDE the 3d red sleeve holes, just like EtherealHaze's design.

And for reference, this the official Pokemon Delphox: note no 3d sleeve holes and black paws.

It is unethical for larger companies like Pocketpair to use designs from smaller artists without consent and compensation.

TemTem received legal permission for the viral fakemon platypus line from the original artist.

Palworld did not receive legal permission for the fanmade Mega Delphox design.

Just to make it clear, Pokemon themselves have made parody designs of other series monsters, and in the monster taming genre MANY games parody eachother, so I don't think Palworld parodying official Pokemon is inherently bad. It also is pretty much impossible to financially damage Pokemon with parody as Pokemon is one of the richest IPs in the world.

However, Palworld making parody of small artist's fanmon designs without consent and compensation is not ethical.

Pocketpair is a larger company taking from someone who cannot legally fight back. Pokemon can sue Palworld if it really is an issue for Pokemon, but EtherealHaze cannot do so with the same ease because good lawyers are extremely expensive, and the legal battle can be very time consuming and stressful for just one person.

TDLR; This post is meant to inform consumers about the products, I am not defending Pokemon nor Palworld nor TemTem, only aiming to inform about practices I feel are unjust. Palworld devs lifting from fan made fakemon without legal consent and compensation is unethical. If you still wish to play Palworld, please consider pirating Palworld instead of purchasing/playing online (release sales and online player numbers are used to get investors for the company/game).

Additional issues with Pocketpair's behavior towards AI and NFTs:

Pocketpair has previously published a party game that hosts an unethical generative ai art model. And no you are not 'spotting the ai art vs hand drawn art'-- that is disinformation.

In this party game every player during a round uses ai to generate images based on a given theme, except one imposter player that has to guess the theme. Then the group tries to guess which ai image was created with the imposter prompt. This game profits off of hosting an unethical generative ai image model.

Why is this generative ai model unethical?

Generative ai image models like Stable Diffusion, Midjourney, etc, are trained on open web data (scrubbing the entire internet, uses private info/copyright/NSFL content -- article linked discussing what kind of illegal NSFL content Midjourney, Stable Diffusion, etc has been trained on. Images of warcrimes also are used in such datasets.)

This is absolutely unacceptable and should not be supported. Datasets can absolutely be made without illegal content, truely twisted people were unwilling to make ethical datasets with legal free to use images.

Also in general, big generative ai model dev (be it text, image, etc) is notorious for abusing workers. It often exposes grossly underpaid employees to traumatic materials with no proper mental health care. Link. You can read many articles about this issue online. For reference, government intelligence workers have therapy for the traumatic content they view, so even if its ai generated, constant exposure to traumatic content is not to be taken lightly. Workers are real people.

Additionally, Pocketpair social medias have flirted with NFTs, and the CEO of Pocketpair is a founder of a cryptocurrency company called Coincheck. NFTs are scams (you purchase the receipt, not the actual item, and all NFTs loose monetary value) and if that wasn't bad enough, NFTs, Crypto, and in general Blockchain infrastructure waste a shiton of resources via proof-of-work processing, you might as well be pissing oil into the ocean. Link. That is not ethical.

It does not appear that the game Palworld itself uses unethical ai, nor has it stolen actual pokemon 3d model topology, BUT the EtherealHaze fakemon design has been lifted from without legal consent, which is enough for me to drop the game. Furthermore, I cannot trust Pocketpair as a company to not introduce unethical ai and NFTs into Palworld in the future, due to the company's past behavior.

Whether you continue to play Palworld is up to you, but as I said before, please consider pirating the game instead of purchasing or playing online, since the stats can be used to get investors for the Pocketpair company/Palworld game.

[clowngames]

Do you feel like talking about game development?

https://youtube.com/shorts/0w3hnaUo-50

I can't speak on Palworld as a game because I haven't played it, watched any footage of gameplay, or seen any trailers, but I can aggregate some commentary by gamedevs I've talked to along with some research I've done to confirm we're not all just making shit up.

Palworld is Pocket Pair Inc.'s second major release, and it's an Early Access game while their first game is still, also, in Early Access.

The banner from their other Early Access game, Craftopia, is this:

This doesn't bode well for Palworld's future. Note that it is February at time of the screenshot taken, and more distressingly a "bugfixing update" is worth celebrating 4 years into Craftopia's development.

They have two previous releases which are an AI-art-based social deduction game and a gacha card game. There's no nice way to say this, but the types of games in their portfolio bring to mind an amount of startup capital that makes the Early Access model unnecessary. In particular, there's no circumstance in which a game dev company simultaneously needs the early return of the EA model and also has the resources to split their studio off to make a second one. The reason they're using this model is as a metric of gauging interest to figure out how to divide their resources according to demand and to show to their investors that they're doing well.

Finally, they're working on another game at the same time as Palworld and Craftopia: Never Grave - a metroidvania roguelike with visuals similar to Hollow Knight and the capture mechanic of Super Mario Odyssey (complete with throwing your hat at enemies to possess them).

All of this paints a pretty clear, if cynical, picture of their business strategy. Pocket Pair is simply making other people's video games, but faster.

To be clear, I'm not accusing them of plagiarizing. I think Palworld is pretty distinct from Pokemon in fairly obvious ways, in the same way that Craftopia is distinct from Breath of the Wild. In addition, both games are borrowing game mechanics and ideas from more than one game each.

But at the same time, the vibe I get is less "taking inspiration from multiple sources" and more "seeing what is successful about multiple sources and combining them with the goal of making something appealing." Gamers like farming, so we added crops. Gamers like third person shooters, so we added that to Pokemon. There's no consideration for thematic cohesion or vision. I think the reason there was a controversy involving the suspected use of AI in Palworld is because there's an evident absence of artistic intent which mirrors the way AI generates images or text.

Pocket Pair Inc. is the cover band of game developers. And with Palworld they happen to have learned the crowd pleasers.

That's not to say there's no artistic value to Palworld, or even that the game isn't worth playing, or fun, or "good," whatever that means. Objectively speaking, making a game that appeals to so many people it breaks records is an accomplishment worth paying attention to, and quite frankly if that were me I'd be pretty proud of myself. But I can't help but think about that post about AAA games all being the same because studios are afraid to take risks without risking capital and then think, Palworld is a manifestation of the same problem.

[jeremy-ken-anderson]

Palworld is more of a ripoff of Rust than of Pokemon.

And if you think it's not a ripoff of Rust...yes. That's correct, and that's the point.

Pokemon does not have a patent on domestication. Getting animals to help you do things was already something that existed! They don't have a patent on "using cute animals in games," or "adding characters to your party by capturing them," or "creatures with elemental attacks."

While Palworld benefits from Pokemon's cultural cachet, the whole-ass game rhythm of Palworld is dramatically different from any Pokemon game ever. Yes, there are moments that are Pokemon-esque, such as entering a new area and immediately getting excited because you've seen a cool-looking creature and want to get it. But you're also managing food, to feed all the creatures you're putting to work. And you've got them, like, mining ore. And you use that ore to build your base. And you expand your functional territory by exploring to new teleport nodes. Yes, you use a ball to catch the thing when it could have been a cage (like WoW did in their near-explicit ripoff of Pokemon) or a box or a, like, I dunno, a seed? A pyramid? There were lots of shape options, and they went with the Pal Sphere on purpose. Fine. But the list of mechanical differences between the games is almost the full list of Palworld's mechanics.

And the guns thing is a clean and obvious point of aesthetic/tonal difference between the properties. In a clear "The Coyote Doesn't Catch the Roadrunner" kind of way, Nintendo has always had a "Pokemon's Universe Has No Guns" in place. Sometimes fans have misunderstood or derided that decision but Nintendo's not subtle or wishy-washy about it.

Also, the action combat vs the creatures instead of turn-based. Like, you can punch WAY above your weight class if you've got the reflexes and patience for it. Which in turn means the raid bosses are a completely different experience, more like large monsters of the recent Legend of Zelda titles or Genshin Impact than legendary Pokemon.

I dunno, I feel like if I had a girl choosing between a vampire and a werewolf to protect her in a verdant postapocalyptic wasteland and people called it a Twilight knockoff I'd think they didn't read so much as the slip cover of the book.

[duckapus]

If Mario was in... Palworld

As we're all aware, whenever Mario gets introduced to anything involving collecting things he almost immediately loses every moral he has. Probably due to being from one of the original Collectathons. Well, this time it's worse, both because Meggy's going along with it instead of trying to reign him in Because Guns, and because the game's mechanics actively encourage several of their worst traits.

Eventually, the duty of knocking some sense back into them falls upon Ash and his Pokemon. Because of course there'd be a Palworld vs Pokemon aspect to this.

[thegreateyeofsauron]

finally caved in and bought palworld, and despite twitter being all "palworld is the most fucked up and evil game ever made" like a bunch of christian pastors talking about pokemon when it first came out the game is actually pretty fucking chill and cute, if i bought it expecting it to be all fucked up and edgy i'd be pretty fucking disappointed.

it's like breath of the wild with fakemon.

also it's funny how you can catch humans with pal spheres but their capture rate is low and when you finally get one after wasting ten spheres they're completely fucking worthless for anything but hogging up a slot in your palbox. they have no special ability, their only attack is a shitty weak punch, and their stats are worse than a lvl 1 lambball. It's like the game is saying "fine you wanted to catch a human instead of a monster so badly in this monster collecting game? well here you go asshole, hope it was worth it." (it's not worth it. i don't even know if they count towards dex completion.)

(also the first thing i did out of the gate was fistfight a lambball and i only barely just won. that really brings home the point of how much it'd suck to be a regular average human in a monster collecting game. guns really are the only thing that gives humans an edge in man vs mon battles, and well, the mons have them too now.)