#part of this story is that Star Wars was having a similar parallel ship war discourse with the ethics of shipping rey/o

[thatgirlonstage]

Having been in the Vo/tron fandom from very shortly after S1 first aired and having stayed at least adjacent to it for the whole long slog up to present day is a curse for many reasons but also because it means most every time I see people try to explain the origin of the anti movement I have to cringe at all the things they are confidently getting wrong

And I’m not going to say anything, I did not save receipts or document this whole stupid phenomenon because it gave me a headache then and it gives me a headache now and I am simply not interested in being your discourse historian

But I am just standing in a corner like

[nobodysdaydreams]

Since posting on the potential for the Sequel Trilogy (especially in regards to Leia and Ben's arcs between TLJ and TROS), @myfairkatiecat has asked me for my thoughts. I apologize in advance. There's so much I don't even know where to start. I suppose the best place to start is my thoughts on TFA and TLJ:

I liked the force awakens. It was the first Star Wars movie I'd ever seen. I wasn't planning on getting into Star Wars, because like most people who didn't grow up with the movies, I still knew all the twists, all the memes, and all the quotes. What was the point in seeing it? I knew it was good, but it was hard for me to feel the magic of seeing it for the first time when I'd seen so much out of context already. But the force awakens was new. I know a lot of fans at the time were like "this is a cheap new hope remake" and sure, it had a similar plot structure, but it also introduced a lot of new ideas, characters, and concepts, and I think it succeeded in it's two goals: 1) Offering the beginning to an excited new story that could go in a number of interesting and cool directions. 2) Capturing what was so good about Star Wars in a way that would bring in new fans. It not only succeeded, but it completely knocked it out of the park, at least for me. I remember sitting in the theater, before the movie was even over, and thinking to myself "Dang it. They did it. I didn't think they'd do it, but they actually did it. This is the start of another hyperfixation. Maybe one of the worst I've ever had." I knew 100% that the moment I had free time that this was going to take over. And it did. I appreciated the other movies so much more after having had the experience of watching a Star Wars movie unspoiled that captures that feeling. This brought me into the fandom. It might not be everyone's favorite movie, but I loved it.

The Last Jedi was actually good, but it made one fatal mistake. Two if you count the fact that they skipped all the Ben and Leia stuff, but I forgive them for that because it's not like they could see the future and knew Carrie Fisher was going to pass away. If they knew that, I think they would have written a different script. But I liked most of it. The force dyad stuff was incredible. I was in that theater completely in awe because I gotta hand it to them: I would never in a million years come up with the force dyad stuff, and it's better than anything I could have thought up with on my own. 1000/10. Amazing. Fantastic. So what then is my problem with TLJ? Finn. Especially because he was right where he needed to be. They could have even done his arc in a lazy way, and I would have still accepted it. All they had to do was have him panic and rescue Rose from Hux, accidently connecting him to the force, and then he could suddenly be like "woah I'm force sensitive." All they had to do was have him find some files on where he came from and info on all the stormtrooper brainwashing so that we could continue to explore the mystery of his past instead of pretending like it doesn't matter. For heaven sakes, he was right there on the ship. We saw a hologram of child Finn in Force Awakens when they were going over his file. Phasma could have offer him information about himself or his past in exchange for his freedom or betraying the rebellion. Not to mention Finn's discovery his force sensitivity would have parallel Rey discovering she's a dyad AND her not receiving any answers about her past, which would that tied the movie together thematically. That plotline was right there on a silver plater, it was the obvious choice, the easy part, it baffles me that they fumbled it, especially when the stuff they did with Kylo and Rey completely knocks it out of the park. I've probably watched the scene of the two of them fighting in the throne room the most of any Star Wars scene. But I don't think I've ever gone back to rewatch one of Finn's scenes from TLJ. But I could have and that frustrates me so much. I left the theater of TFA being like "Dang. They got me. I'm hyperfixated now.", and I left the theater of TLJ feeling kind of conflicted. On the one hand, the force dyad stuff was one of the best things I'd ever seen. But on the other hand, I wanted more out of Finn. The Rose and Finn kiss came out of nowhere for me, and it made me worried they were gonna waste time in the third movie with an unnecessary Rose, Rey, Finn love triangle then ended with Finn and Rey together (turns out I did not need to worry about that. They had plenty of other ways to waste my time. But I'll put my thoughts on the romance plotlines in another post because...romance wasn't the biggest draw for me anyway, and my takes on it are a tad more nuanced than "love it or hate it with everything in my soul" which seem to be the only two options). But my other worry was that they didn't seem to know what they were doing with Finn. They also have a lot of "Main characters" to keep track of now. The OT trilogy had the classic "Leia, Luke, Han". Now we have Rey, Poe, and Finn, but Rey and Poe didn't meet until the end of the second movie, and also we have Rose now, and then we have Kylo/Ben and his whole dyad bond, he's much more of a main character than dark mysterious villain. In the OT trilogy, was Vadar conflicted? Sure, but we as the audience didn't fully know that until the end, we didn't need to spend a ton of screen time following his internal journey. But we did need that for Kylo/Ben because of everything they set up for him. With all of that, plus Carrie Fisher dying (which would likely force them to rework a lot of their plotlines), I did have concerns going into TROS. But, since they blew me away with the force dyad stuff, I held out hope that they wouldn't fumble it. Sure, I saw the negative reviews. But everyone was crying about TFA and TLJ too, and I enjoy those. So I held out that hope until the end.

And...well... I have thoughts on TROS too. But I'll save those for another time. Also: I know things can get heated in the star wars fandom, and while I welcome engagement and it's totally cool if you hated TFA, loved Finn's TLJ arc, and hated the force dyad, (different opinions are fine!) please don't hate on my posts and please be respectful. Thanks! 🥰

[ahsokathegray]

The Clone Wars Venator names and the meaning behind Ahsoka’s Tribunal

So I know The Clone Wars show has been over for nearly 3 years now (wow) but I came to this daunting realization recently and had to share. I’m not even sure if this has been discussed already.

All through the show, we are introduced to a handful of Ventator-class Star Destroyers. Each Jedi and their respective Admiral belongs to one. For example:

Anakin → the Resolute

Obi-Wan → the Negotiator

Mace Windu → the Endurance

Plo Koon → the Triumphant

…and Ahsoka → the Tribunal

Now, I’ll get to Ahsoka’s venator in a minute.

As for the rest of the ones we’ve been introduced to, they are mostly named after a defining characteristic of the Jedi in which they belong (if Kenobi’s is any indication, I mean c’mon I don’t even have to explain that one). The only exception is Plo Koon’s ship, which I’ll cover towards the end.

With the Resolute, however, we can begin to draw some lines and connect the dots. Anakin continuously proves in the movies and in the show alike how determined and resilient he is during the war. In Ahsoka’s own words from Rebels:

“He rarely lost a battle”

Anakin is unwavering, strong, and the poster-boy of the Jedi/the Republic’s leading defenses for a reason. He’s the Chosen One and if he’s firm about anything it’s taking down the Separatists. I feel like this one pretty much speaks for itself.

Where Mace and the Endurance are concerned, it creates a perfect parallel to Anakin. The literal definition of endurance is the ability to withstand and overcome hardship without giving way. Mace isn’t Yoda’s number two without reason. Mace Windu is the exemplary Jedi in every way and what the Order wants their Jedi to strive to embody. Whether you like him or not, he follows the rules as he should. If Tales of the Jedi showed us anything, it’s that he rises in rank because he’s the cookie-cutter version of what a Jedi should be. He’s everything that Anakin, as the Chosen One, should try to manifest. But he doesn’t, and thus enters in the tragedy of Anakin Skywalker. This is just one small detail among many that allude to his eventual deviation from the path of the Jedi. Anakin ends up unable to endure the ultimate hardship he’s been faced with in Revenge of the Sith. He’s forced to endure the rest of his life without Padmé and in service to an evil he can’t overcome.

Then we arrive at Plo Koon, whose venator is the Triumphant. It gets destroyed early on in season one, but still plays a large part in the episodes it’s in. It acts as an element of foreshadow in the struggle against Grievous and the Malevolence. Despite losing the ship itself, Master Plo, and the Wolfpack survive.

While this doesn’t necessarily fall in line with our established pattern, it does highlight a key point in his character’s story in the whole of TCW. It simply acts as foreshadow for a very memorable moment in season 1 of the show.

Now, this brings me back to Ahsoka and the venator she is given in season 7. Tribunal is not a word than describe any one person. The definition of the word is a court of justice. In war, tribunals are established to try individuals who are accused of war crimes and crimes against humanity.

With that out of the way, let us backtrack to her arc at the end of season 5. Ahsoka was wrongfully accused of both bombing the Jedi Temple and for murder, finding herself kicked out of the Order for crimes she never committed. The tribunal, in this scenario, was both the Council and the official trial that Padmé and Tarkin were present for. She is prevented from continuing on as a Padawan. And when asked to return, Ahsoka willingly chooses to instead walk away from everything she’s ever known. She turns her back on them, just as they did to her.

In the final two episodes of season 7, a similar event unfolds. Despite having walked away, despite not being a Jedi, Ahsoka comes back and is still grouped in with those who are to be executed when Order 66 is given. She’s accused of treason against the Republic by Sidious’s words alone. Once again, Ahsoka is wrongfully charged with something she did not do, looped into a category in which she no longer fits. This time, it’s not the Council or the Republic that handles her trial. A trial isn’t going to be held at all. She’s indicted with the crime and offered no possibility of proving her innocence. She has no opportunity of choice here. A choice has been made for her. She’s sentenced to a death by execution at the hands of her own men. Men who, like the Jedi, no longer have control of the situation. Men who are sentenced just the same, stripped of the ability to do something about what the government says is so. Therefore, making the Tribunal exactly what it is — an unjust “hearing” that deems the Jedi responsible of war crimes they never had a hand in. The Tribunal declares Ahsoka to die, taking the 332nd, the Jedi, and the remains of the Republic down with it.

(TL;DR) Naming her venator this is ironic, as it foreshadows what we already know to be true — that a war tribunal that will not be held, that this will not end justly for anyone involved.

When hearing “the Tribunal” now, it just holds such a heavy, formidable, devastating weight unlike it did before.

So yeah, share my pain.

It’s like poetry, it rhymes.

[kaypeace21]

When did they compare Will and El to Leia and Luke? I love that comparison and honestly they are and Mike is Han.

There's a bunch of starwars refs :)

in s2 kali teaches El to lift a train with one handed telekesis. Similar to yoda trying to teach luke to lift the ship - with one handed telekesis. Kali (yoda) makes el (luke) see an illusion of their father- papa(Darth Vader). Mike yells "its a trap" to el- the line was said to luke . We have in s4 - el being told by owens she's "our best hope". Which is a parallel to when luke is talked about: " that boy is our last hope". In the season 4 part 2 teaser- Brenner says el isn't ready power wise to leave, but she goes anyways to rescue her friends. Similar to luke being warned by yoda that he's not ready (power wise) to go save his friends yet (but going anyways). El also says "get out of my head" to another psychic , kali (this line was said by Rey to kylo,another force user). In s2,while with kali, El also strangled a bad guy with her powers (using 1 hand) which is a darf Vader ref. But unlike him, she stopped.

We also had both henry and Will be called "wizards" who are "sensitive". Aka a reference to starwars- being "force sensitive" = having powers.

And in s1, dustin mentioned the lando betrayal when on the walkie talkie with Hopper: which may have been foreshadowing for Hopper later telling Brenner- El's location at the school .

And I mentioned this other point a few years ago (the Will/leia parallel)- here. But I'll repeat it :). Mike at the end of the s1 writes a d&d story for Will. We know it's for Will because Will said to Mike "it's a 7. The demogorgan it got me". And the story is about defeating a 7 headed monster. In the end, the prince was so happy and grateful- he had a medal ceremony for our 3 heroes. It echoes how at the end of the first starwars film: there was a medal ceremony for the 3 heroes. And princess leia gave medals out -including one to han (who at the medal ceremony winked at leia) .

I mean (at the end of s1) mike literally replaced a girl who nerdy boys fantasized about (princess leia)for a prince (who was a stand in for Will).meanwhile at the end of s1 mike says el "was like a yoda" when dustin tries to claim she's like a wizard (something Will is hmmm).

It's a little suspish given the fact mike is a huge star wars fan: having a yoda doll and millennium falcom. Him and his friends even gave Will star wars toys for his bday. Cough mike's subconscious is outing who he actually sees romantically XD

And yeah, all 3 do parallel han, luke, and leia. Will even says he's El brother - so both el/Will may be force weilding siblings (who weren't raised together /look like twins- kind of like luke and leia). Everyone also expected luke (el) to "get the love interest" simply because he was the main hero. But ... we know how that went. Love triangle with 2 siblings involved too . Just... the st love triangle would be less weird (than star wars') for obvious reasons XD

[letteredlettered]

I have such weird feelings about the season finale of Strange New Worlds. On the one hand, I feel like it was clever and interesting and really celebrated the fact that Pike preferred peace and diplomacy. On the other hand, because Pike's peace and diplomacy failed, the ultimate message is that sometimes wiping out your enemy brings about the best future? Which is not a message I love taking home, especially from Star Trek.

But I gotta say what really bothered me is the way it pitted Pike and Kirk against each other--Pike as the quasi-pacifist (I say quasi- because he’s never claimed to be a pacifist and will totally fight if he has to; I’m trying to say that he wants peace; I’m not being sarcastic) and Kirk as the one who thinks the ends justify the means. Kirk does pursue the Romulan ship in the TOS episode, Balance of Terror, unlike Pike in the SNW episode, Quality of Mercy--I get that, but I'm just not sure that this is a meaningful parallel to draw.

For one thing, the speech that Pike gives to his crew in this episode about seeking peace is very similar to Kirk's speech in Corbomite Maneuver. Kirk might not be a pacifist, but he cares deeply about peace and avoiding war and believing that we can work together to understand each other and find peaceful solutions--at least, TOS often tries to convey that Kirk cares about those things.

Which brings me to my main issue. TOS was made in the 60s during a Cold War, and it is special for the way it attempts to address war: it shows that war is complicated, that sometimes hard choices need to be made--which is part of what Balance of Terror is about--but I would argue that more often than not, it shows that war is a bad choice to make. Both the Klingon episodes are about narrowly avoiding a war that neither side necessarily want. Many other episodes are about diffusing situations--often Kirk diffusing situations--that are needlessly violent or bellicose.

Part of SNW seems to be saying aren’t we better now? Because it highlights and features a character who cannot and will not choose war--but imo, it feels a bit like trying to take a moral high ground above TOS. But, okay. I prefer Pike’s approach, so fine, if you want to take a moral stance against TOS, in this case, I agree that SNW is showing us a better way to live in this world. But if you’re going to do that, at the expense of TOS, why would you then show that the just and merciful thing to do will fail and ruin the universe?

Look, I get sometimes justice and mercy fail in the real world. I get that sometimes you have to do something a little not-great for the great good. But I am so fucking tired of this message, this being the hero Gotham needs and not the one she deserves, this Jack Bauer on 24 it’s okay I torture people because I save many more people. I don’t care if sometimes it’s even fucking true; it’s just the only message anywhere in media these days; the message never seems to be if you’re actually trying to do the right thing you can, sometimes, be successful in getting people to come to the table and agree on something that can work. And we have to believe that is possible sometimes. We have to.

But this SNW episode doesn’t seem super interested in that message, despite how deeply it seems to want us to love and laud Chris Pike. Why? What was the point?

ETA: Also minor quibble but The Menagerie Part 1 very clearly states that Captain Pike is no longer captain of the Enterprise in 2266 because he was promoted; his accident happens after that. They could have at the very least say that Pike changing his own future also meant he turned down the promotion for some reason; why retcon this way when it’s just not necessary to tell the story you’re trying to tell?

[hamartia-grander]

HI LOTUS thanks for always being so suportive ily hope you're having a nice day <3

thoughts on the first to eps of obi-wan ? 👀👀

HI SISSI I LOVE YOU!!! I am actually having a very nice day, thank you. I hope you're well <333

Obi Wan Kenobi spoilers ahead!!

Ohymyiddoduddu oh my GOD. I love this show. I LOVE this show. I was not prepared to be so invested in it as I am now. I finished the eps and was vibrating with excitement.

First and foremost. I'm in love with Reva. She's so cool and badass and I love her voice so much??? She has such a nice voice. And I really really hope she gets a redemption arc, because 1. She freaking deserves to be loved and cared for, and 2. [Jedi: Fallen Order spoilers] we almost had a great Inquisitor redemption arc with Trilla but then she was killed off for shock factor. I'm still so pissed about that. She deserved better, and so does Reva.

There's lots of little things I love too. The fact that Obi Wan got Luke that toy ship. That Obi Wan gets a little snack for his Eopie every day. That Owen didn't sell him out. That Bail Organa reassured Leia and knocked out every one who tries to say that adopted kids aren't legitimate. That baby Luke escapes responsibility at every chance to pretend he's flying a ship. That baby Leia absolutely murdered her cousin in a verbal throw down, like full on K.O., total devastation, I was dying.

Baby Leia oh my God. Finally she gets the spotlight. And her dynamic with Obi Wan was so cute and lovely and heartbreaking at the same time. When he said no to the gloves and then .2 seconds later bought her the gloves, I was dying laughing. This man. And how she literally is both of her parents like. Big cry. I love her so much.

I always liked Obi Wan as a character, he was never like my top 5 but I definitely liked him. With this show I feel like we're getting more parts of him I've always seen, but not enough of yk? And I really appreciate it. We get to see his caution and wariness as a hunted jedi on the run, but we also get to see his kindness, how perceptive he is, his connection with other living beings, and how even though he keeps going, everything is weighing down on him and he knows it. It's refreshing to see this side of him, both the revered former jedi and the weary man still so full of love despite everything he's been through. I love him sm.

I also loved all the parallels in this of Obi Wan to Rey. Idk if it was intentional, for any reason, or if its just star wars' natural "poetry" as they say, but they were pretty blatant parallels that I loved. Obi Wan making his instant bread and sitting and eating it outside his living space just like Rey did in TFA, Obi Wan burying his lightsabers in the sand like Rey did in TROS. And then of course, Obi Wan having his repetitive, structured life - a life he lived for others - interrupted by a greater calling outside of what he's grown used to that he's hesitant to pursue at first but once he does, he does so with full passion and commitment, similar to Rey's story. It almost makes me wish they'd had Rey be related to him somehow, even though I know that wouldn't really make any sense lmao. It's just nice to see the similarities. And I also love Rey Skywalker very much.

I think it's very impactful that the moment Obi Wan opens himself up to the force after 10 years of hiding, he finds Anakin. Obviously he closed himself off from the force so as to not be easily traced, but I like to think a part of that was also that he didn't want to reach out in the force and not find Anakin. I recently started reading the Ahsoka novel by E. K. Johnston and Ahsoka was in a similar situation. She hid from the force because she felt vulnerable, and afraid they'd find her, but also she said she dreaded reaching out in the force and feeling everyone she loved, gone. (cause she thought Anakin and Obi Wan were both dead.) So to see Obi Wan's hesitant belief, and the fact that he immediately finds Anakin, makes me think maybe he dreaded that too, maybe he was scared of not feeling anyone he cared for, because that meant they were really gone. And his love for Anakin, as a brother, mentor, father figure, and teacher, just transcended all obstacles, and even though he saw Anakin fall to the darkside, he still loves him, he will always love him, and he's both relieved that Anakin survived and terrified of what he's become. It's so fucking heartbreaking and I love it.

The only thing I'm kinda iffy about is the Grand Inquisitor? He can't actually be dead, because we see him in Rebels, which is about 4 years after Kenobi right? Idk the exact time but it's definitely after. So there's gotta be some way they like save his life or something. But with how they ended it I almost fear they're going to retcon his rebels presence or something. I really hope they don't do that and I won't assume until I see it, but it would be upsetting. I'm expecting there to be some deus ex machina of sorts and we find out he's actually still very much alive in the next ep. Fingers crossed fhdjsjss.

But yes I so loved the first two episodes and I'm SO excited for more. How did you feel about the show?

[belladeum]

(ro) accord + 4, 5, 10, 13 - for the fic ask meme!!

Aaa thank you for asking!!! Accord is my post-Rebels Star Wars fic ft Thrawn/Eli/Nightswan for those who are interested

4: What’s your favorite line of dialogue?

Dialogue not so much - mostly cause there's not a lot of talking between our boys at the moment - but I really adore this lil bit from Ch3 when Thrawn sees Cygni for the first time post-Batonn:

He couldn’t understand, and for some reason the first thought to pass through his still-hazy mind was that surely if Cygni had survived, he would have known. He would have been the first to know, perhaps the only one to know. Why hadn’t he known?

5: What part was is hardest to write?

I'm still writing the dang thing so uhhh the all of it still to be written! Chapter 6-9 is giving me pains just trying to figure out pacing and the um "meta" narrative I want to include somehow but yeah! I'm trying to get out of this funk and back into writing ;;

10: Why did you choose this pairing for this particular story?

I chose my throuple because I love Nightswan and he deserves to be alive and happy and also full of angst and also have two boyfriends. Nightswan/Thrawn is good bcs narrative foils, parallels, equals, rivals, the drama and frought tension of enemies to friends to lovers and Nightswan/Eli is good because I started shipping it one day and realised there's such potential there cause 'Swan is like Thrawn and could easily play a similar mentor role in an AU but also imagine these two bonding over having to deal with Thrawn's Shit TM all the time (and also Eli clearly has a type and Swan fits it). Thrawn/Eli I need not explain (they were roommates). But most of all I chose this ship because I can. Though, would you believe me I initially planned Accord as a Thranto featuring Third Wheel Nightswan fic? Ridiculous. Don't know what I was thinking.

13: What music did you listen to, if any, to get in the mood for writing this story? Or if you didn’t listen to anything, what do you think readers should listen to to accompany us while reading?

Oh man I have a selection of songs that fit all three of these pairings. But as a general guide for Nightswan (who is the driving force and main POV of this fic) his vibe is Mumford & Sons, Kaiser Chiefs and Marina and the Diamonds (esp Electra Heart era). All the chapter titles are based on song lyrics which either are just a pun on whatever happens in the chapter, or have some emotional resonance with it.

[thinkingisadangerouspastime]

I hate to be an asshole, but I see this a lot and I'd like your take because while we have differing opinions on some things, your metas are spot on (and I binged half your stories last weekend, oops) and I know you'll be straight up with me on this. What "chemistry" between Zuko and Katara? I keep seeing that and not getting it? The chemistry when he roughed up her grandmother and threatened her village? The chemistry when he tied her to a tree and violated her boundaries? (1/3)

The chemistry when he hired a trained assassin to stalk her good friend and if collateral damage happened, oopsie? The chemistry when he stabbed her in the back after she was nice to him in the crystal catacombs? The chemistry when he demanded that she accept him? Or the chemistry when he showed he didn’t know her at all? The chemistry when both of them were grossed out being thought a couple? Or is it the chemistry when he saved her and Katara couldn’t wait to kiss another guy? (2/3)

I dislike r/eylo from Star Wars fandom. I think it sends the wrong message. But as much as I hate it, there was chemistry there from the first. Rey is attracted to him and Kylo is attracted to her. They don’t want to be, but they are and it plays out in the next two movies. There was none of that in ATLA and I can understand z/ks saying it but other people? What am I missing? Where am I not looking? I’m not even that huge on Katara/Aang but Zuko/Katara chemistry where? (3/3)

Obligatory disclaimer: this is my personal response to anon’s questions and my personal thoughts on Zvtara’s chemistry. I’m not going to put this into the main tags - much less the Zvtara tag! - because while I believe this is a genuine question, I don’t doubt there’s at least one person out there who will misconstrue it as “hate” because the A:TLA fandom is, uh, aggressive in its ship wars lol. However, if I have any Zvtara shippers following me, I encourage you to reblog this post with your own thoughts! Please refrain from sending your commentary on anon unless you’re going to be friendly about it, lol; I like to keep my blog positive and welcoming! Thank you :)

Firstly, I am EXTREMELY flattered that you enjoy my metas so much and binged half my fics!! I was grinning so gleefully as I read that part of your asks,, y’all are too sweet to me. 💛

Okay. Moving on.

So, the main question here seems to be this: What chemistry exists between Zuko and Katara in A:TLA?

Short answer? None, in my opinion.

Longer answer? For all the reasons you outline in your asks, I do not perceive any romantic chemistry between Zuko and Katara within the series run of A:TLA. Note the qualifiers: “romantic” and “within the series run.” I’ll try to break down what I mean!

“no romantic chemistry”

For one, a romantic interest with anyone in the Gaang would have undermined Zuko’s entire redemption arc, full stop. Yes, I mean anyone. For Zuko to have joined the Gaang because of romantic interest* would have been… counterproductive. Zuko joined the Gaang because he realized - to put it very simply - that the Fire Nation was wrong. He realized how he’d been indoctrinated since birth. He realized that he could help the Avatar (instead of trying to, uh, kill him lmao) by teaching him firebending. He realized he could help Aang defeat the Fire Lord and bring peace to the four nations. Zuko realized he could help end the war. He could help break the cycles of violence and abuse that had in part made his own life so miserable. For him to join the Gaang because of romantic interest? Completely takes away from all of that. A key theme of A:TLA is dismantling imperialist power, propaganda, rhetoric, etc. Zuko’s decision to fight against Fire Nation imperialism is crucial to his redemption. He could not have been redeemed without making that choice. Thus, if Zuko had joined the Gaang because of romantic interest, it would have been completely counteractive to his redemption.

(*That is, the relatively popular [? I think?] implication that Zuko and Katara’s moment in “The Crossroads of Destiny” was romantic-coded and thus Zuko should have joined the Gaang at the end of Book 2 because he had romantic interest in Katara and she in him. I genuinely am clueless how people interpret that moment as romantic - like to me it’s honestly heartbreaking! Katara offers Zuko tentative sympathy only for him to stab her in the back minutes later - so if someone would like to share some thoughts, please feel free to do so!!)

On a similar note, for Zuko to take the lightning for Katara at the end of the series because of romantic interest would also undermine his redemption arc. Please note: this does not mean Zvtara shippers cannot interpret the Agni Kai as being romantic-coded. Of course they can! That’s what fanon is for! Transformative works! But in terms of canon, Zuko did not try (and fail, rip) to redirect Azula’s lightning because he was romantically interested in Katara. (I mean, in terms of canon, Zuko and Katara were both romantically interested in other people, too, so… Moot point, lol? But I digress.)

Zuko taking the lightning is about him learning to earn forgiveness and accept unconditional love from his family (both Iroh and the Gaang). It is a selfless act, and it directly parallels Zuko’s selfish act in “The Crossroads of Destiny” to stand silently while Azula strikes Aang with lightning, thus becoming complicit in Aang’s death. The point of his “sacrifice” is that Zuko would have taken the lightning for anyone (and don’t get me wrong - the moment is doubly powerful with Katara, as she’s a primary protagonist!). Zuko did not attempt but fail to redirect the lightning because it was Katara he was protecting; he took it because it was the right thing to do. Zuko has learned to differentiate between “right and wrong” on his own. To at last put others before himself. To make his decision about romantic interest? To make Zuko’s most selfless act in the series (not to mention one of his only 100% selfless acts!) about out-of-the-blue “romantic love”? That not only lessens the impact of his decision, but it is also reductive to Zuko’s entire character and arc. There’s no romantic chemistry there.

Again, of course, fanon exists for purposes such as interpreting Zuko’s failed misdirection of the lightning to protect Katara as romantic. Go wild!! I’m talking strictly about canon.

So that pretty much summarizes why romantic interest with anyone in the Gaang would have been detrimental to Zuko’s redemption, hence why Zuko doesn’t have any canon romantic chemistry in the Gaang. It just ain’t there! It would have screwed over his arc! And again, because of all the reasons you outline, I cannot comfortably interpret any romantic chemistry between Zuko and Katara within the series run of A:TLA. Personally, romantic Zvtara would have been too sudden, too unexpected, and too… well, as I said: uncomfortable. Why would Katara have romantic interest in a guy who’d hurt her so many times? Who she’d only just forgiven? Why would Zuko have romantic interest in Katara, a girl he barely knew for most of the series? Especially when he already had feelings for a childhood friend? I, personally, just don’t get it.

But. You know what Zuko and Katara do have in canon?

A phenomenal platonic bond.

It develops very late, admittedly; Katara has only forgiven Zuko for the last five episodes of the series (5 out of 61… Katara was only on good terms with Zuko for 8% of the series, lmao). But Zuko and Katara are very, very similar personality-wise, so it follows that (eventually) they’d be great friends! Yeah, Zuko acts like an entitled dick for a good portion of “The Southern Raiders” lmao, but he ultimately respects Katara’s decision to spare Yon Rha (love that scene so much 🤧). Katara recognizes that Zuko is trying his best (if sometimes falling short) to redeem himself and earn the Gaang’s trust, and she also understands how - while she is completely justified in her anger! - holding that hatred close to her chest isn’t good for her. So she offers him a third chance (and honestly, Zuko should be forever grateful for that lmao!).

So what can a strong platonic bond lead to? Well, if it’s in your taste, a romantic relationship!

“within the series run”

As aforementioned, I don’t see any romantic chemistry between Zuko and Katara within the series run of A:TLA. I think Zuko has hurt Katara in too many ways - and again, she has only just forgiven him by the end of the show - for there to realistically have been any blossoming romance between them. I think romantic interest for anyone in the Gaang would undermine Zuko’s redemption. I also think M@iko and K@taang are well-implemented romances into A:TLA, so romantic Zvtara would not have fit into the narrative. (Doesn’t mean someone has to ship them!! I just mean they made logical sense and had narrative purpose within canon. That’s all.) But again, Zuko and Katara have a great platonic bond. So while I don’t see romance within the series run, I can understand why people might be attracted to Zvtara in post-canon!

Post-A:TLA (disregarding LOK, which I haven’t even seen lol) Zvtara has some solid potential. I’m personally intrigued by the idea of how they’d navigate their relationship amidst all the politics! Basically, any relationship with a strong platonic bond can have potential for “more.” That’s why people ship T@ang, that’s why people ship Zvkaang, Zvkka, M@ilee, etc. So while Zvtara may not have romantic chemistry within the show - in my opinion! - they’ve got one of my favorite platonic bonds, so I can totally get people wanting to explore that bond in post-A:TLA and possibly translating it to romance.

So for some people, then, it might be less about “chemistry” in A:TLA itself, but more how their relationship could grow and change after the end of the series!

Quick sidebar: I mentioned that while I do not interpret the final Agni Kai as romantic, I’m fine when other people do. It’s fanon! Ain’t no big thing! But also, Katara has forgiven Zuko by that point. I, personally, am not comfortable with reading any of Zuko and Katara’s TSR-and-earlier interactions as romantic because of the imbalanced power dynamic. Example: I don’t think Zuko tying Katara to a tree and manipulating her with her mother’s necklace was romantic, and I don’t like the resulting implications when people do treat it as such. Zuko was still so indoctrinated by Fire Nation propaganda… Yeah, from Book 1 to about halfway through Book 3, I personally don’t feel comfortable shipping Zuko with anyone outside of the Fire Nation. Pre-redemption Zuko was not the most fun person to be around if you were non-Fire Nation.

But as I’ve said, these are all just my opinions! Again, if I have any Zvtara shippers following me, please feel free to reblog with your own thoughts! I would love to know where the idea comes from that Zvtara had chemistry within A:TLA, since I personally don’t see any romantic vibes (though platonic chemistry, of course, abounds.)

(For the record, I don’t know anything about Star Wars, which is why I haven’t brought up R.eylo, lol.)

TL;DR - To me, there isn’t any canon romantic chemistry for Zvtara. Narratively, I think it would undermine Zuko’s arc. Logically, because of how Zuko treated Katara for 92% of the series, I personally cannot interpret any of their interactions as romantic. But their platonic bond? Beautiful!! Thus, if people want to explore post-A:TLA, fanon Zvtara, I am all for it.

[marahope-things]

I think the similarities that people are finding between Adora/Catra and Mara/Light Hope are less to do with the relationships being the same internally (as in, in terms of the dynamics between the two characters) and more to do with the fact that their stories deal with a lot of the major themes of the show, because the two pairings embody a LOT of the major themes of the show between them.

I don’t think it’s an accident or any kind of misrepresentation that the two relationships have parallels, but as someone who enjoys Mara/Light Hope A Whole Lot, while being pleased but more or less happy with how Catradora is presented in the show and not feeling a need to go beyond that, I want to unpick why, and what some of those differences are.

Partly because I think people make broad, thematic-level arguments about why a pairing is attractive to them, and for me, there are a lot of intra-relationship or interpersonal dynamic elements that have more bearing on why I like a ship. And it’s hard to frame in a positive light, but with Catradora, they already engage with some relationship dynamics that I’m a huge fan of (namely, rivalmancy, childhood-friends-to-lovers, and enemies-to-lovers).

The big similarities I see people picking up on are: The mind-control thing, and the "you deserve love too"/"you’re more than what you can give to other people" exchange.

And these are extremely valid parallels! They touch on two Extremely Core messages of the show! They’re very real! And you’re correct—those parallels do mean something about Mara and Light Hope, about their importance to the show and its message. Mara and Light Hope embody many of the show’s core themes, and I am glad people are starting to write about that!

But I find myself sometimes feeling like that’s… not quite the reason why I like the pairing. Y’know?

So, with the caveat that this is just my feelings about the pairing, and probably literally everyone who ships either Catradora or Marahope has a different opinion than me in some way or other, I want to discuss the major differences between Catradora and Mara/Light Hope as I see them.

Because we started liking these ships before we saw the themes that they’d be used to embody in the end, right?

Breaking it down

What Adora and Catra have is a rivalmancy, essentially—especially when they’re first introduced.

Even when they’re on the same side, they have a competitiveness to their dynamic, and part of what drives their split is that Catra, on some level, resents Adora for getting all of the things that she wants, but can’t have, because of (basically) Shadow Weaver—and then abandoning both it and her. It’s a rivalry between peers, fellow soldiers, and there’s a colossal amount of abandonment issues and emotional trauma involved as well. They’re also both close to the same age.

And they were raised together. They spent their formative years extremely close, and their split has a lot in common (probably intentionally) with painful adolescent splits that happen as people grow up, change, grow apart, and (sometimes) come back together. It’s quite moving!

Mara and Light Hope aren’t peers in the same sense; you get the sense that they started out more like co-workers, and their eventual split only happens because Light Hope has their mind wiped and their ability to choose taken away from them (Catra, on the other hand, makes a lot of choices that put her and Adora at odds, often intentionally). The two of them work together and depend on each other, and they become friends, and their roles are complementary. Literally neither of them could do the other’s job, and they depend on each other’s skillset and resources to stay safe and fulfill their own duties effectively.

So they meet as fully-formed (relatively) people in a professional context and become closer, rather than being together for those formative years and undergoing a separation as they change and discover they don’t fit the same way they used to.

There’s also an implication that Light Hope may have trained other She-Ras in the past. I don’t know how long Mara expected her tenure as She-Ra to be, but it seems like that could be a lifelong commitment, once she’s been chosen. If so, then that could imply that Light Hope’s "age" (though I don’t know if that’s something anyone would even keep track of for an AI, because they weren’t supposed to change and “grow” like a person) is on the scale of centuries by the time she meets Mara.

And even if you headcanon them traveling to Etheria together immediately after Light Hope was minted, they’re still not really anything like Catra and Adora in their dynamic. The development of their relationship has a lot more in common with interspecies or human-AI relationships in sci-fi—Terminator, Andromeda, and Killjoys come immediately to mind.

I’m also intentionally including platonic relationships here, like John Connor and Uncle Bob in Judgement Day, too, because this is such an established trope, and touches on some of those Core Sci-Fi Questions that exist in the genre—about the nature of life, consciousness, sentience, individuality, and choice. It’s not just in a romantic context that you see humans and AIs ruminating to each other about what beauty is, why people find flowers “pretty”, what it means to have free will, to feel emotions, or to be an individual. Hell, you can even include Data from Star Trek in that list.

But it is also something of a trope for AIs to "fall in love" or develop special bonds with humans that they work particularly closely with, or for humans to fall in love with AIs (sometimes they go more Pygmalion with the latter and cast the human as the AI’s creator).

Which brings me to the core trope being engaged in Mara and Light Hope’s relationship, one that Noelle has actually alluded to in their remarks during the "Exit Interviews" streams:

Relationship makes Light Hope more than their intended purpose.  

Memory and programming

In one of the streams, Noelle states that the writers’ room made the decision that something about Etheria "broke" the people who have tried to conquer it, and kind of made them part of itself (God this show has Star Wars all over it). He uses several examples, including Hordak.

Hordak, however you feel about him, develops a sense of individuality that makes his re-assimilation into the greater Horde impossible. Like Light Hope, he remembers things he isn’t supposed to, and on being presented with a physical reminder of Entrapta and his relationship with her, Horde Prime’s conditioning begins to break down.

Over the course of her arc, Mara comes to realize that being She-Ra means something more than her superiors have told her, and on realizing what her superiors are doing to Etheria, concludes that She-Ra, and all of Etheria, are being exploited and need to be protected from the First Ones. So, by betraying the First Ones (breaking her oath to them), Mara fulfills her role as She-Ra.

And Light Hope falls in love with Mara, something she was never supposed to be able to do. In the end, it is the memory of Mara that allows Light Hope to break through her programming long enough to allow Adora to destroy the Sword.

I know I brought up how AIs gaining sentience and self-will is a trope within sci-fi, but the best recent example that I can think of off the top of my head (and the reason I was able to articulate this at all) is actually The Good Place, with Janet.

In The Good Place, successive reboots are the in-universe mechanism that allows Janet to grow and change—but it’s her relationship with the other core characters that shapes who she becomes and what she believes. In fact, if she hadn’t been stolen and rebooted so many times in the first place, she never would have become who she did at all.

So: Like the rest of the cast, relationship makes Janet more than she was originally intended to be. Relationship makes Janet whole and fully alive. Light Hope’s story is, um, a bit more tragic, but I think the comparison works.

Catra and Adora, on the other hand, are dealing with a separate problem(/s): Catra’s pain and abandonment (and Adora’s self-abandonment) as a result of what they endured growing up, and the angst of childhood friends growing up and growing apart. It fits very squarely within the parameters of She-Ra as a kids’ TV show.

To boil it all the way down, their relationship *is* the problem. And it takes the whole show to fix it.

What’s suggested by the (sparse) textual evidence on Mara and Light Hope is that their relationship followed a more well-worn sci-fi path: By becoming friends with Mara, Light Hope learns how to be in relationship with another person, how to make her own choices, go against her programming as needed—how to have fun and appreciate beauty and being. Her falling in love with Mara is, metaphorically, her learning how to be alive in the world. Through loving Mara, she gets a glimpse of a world beyond being someone’s instrument, someone’s tool.

That’s part of what’s so heartbreaking and beautiful about them: In the midst of a situation that’s that’s built on deception, concealment, and coercion, where both of them appear to have been lied to or denied the entire truth by their superiors, where Mara, Light Hope, and the entire planet of Etheria are considered expendable by their superiors as long as they get their shiny weapon, Mara (who seems to understand that there’s more to life than duty and heroism) creates a space for Light Hope that is free from the constraints of her programming, to a degree. And as a result, Light Hope changes.

If Light Hope is a villain for her role in all of this (and this is complicated by the fact that she’s a programmatic being created for a particular purpose), then loving Mara is part of what makes her redemption possible. Her relationship with Mara makes her more than a weapon. In fact, it breaks her as a weapon.

And there’s certainly elements of that in Catra and Adora’s relationship, but it’s not the throughline that it is for Light Hope and Mara until you get to season 5—a full three quarters of the way through the show.

Love also doesn’t play as positive of a role in Catra’s redemption arc, really (where her parallels to Light Hope would be the most obvious), both because her villainy is something she explicitly chooses, and because her internal conflict and pain regarding her feelings for Adora are so much a part of her villainy. It only becomes redemptive in Adora’s struggle with the Failsafe—i.e. when we get back into the world of the First Ones, where most of the themes of "destiny" live.

So yeah. That’s the breakdown. I want to get into the individual tropes, but I’m going to have to save that for another day.

[dgcatanisiri]

I’ll stand by this and die on this hill.

Whatever merits The Last Jedi has - and before you start debating me, I’m not saying it doesn’t have them, just that this outweighs them - it fails as a part of the ongoing narrative. It may be a fine standalone film, but as movie two of the Sequel Trilogy, movie eight of the Skywalker Saga, it fails to connect itself to the rest of the story, existing more in isolation than in concert. Rian Johnson’s Star Wars is VERY different from JJ Abrams’ Star Wars, a clash that makes it all too clear that Rise of Skywalker - and the Sequel Trilogy in general - was doomed to fail from the moment it was decided NOT to maintain the same writer across it.

It shifts gears, taking moments that were played for drama in the previous film (or films) and playing them for laughs. 

It drops plot paths, with Rian Johnson explicitly saying that he didn’t use the Knights of Ren because they “didn’t fit” the story he was telling. Or the fact that, if the movie is taking place shortly after TFA, then where is ANY mention of Starkiller, the massive superweapon and installation that the Resistance just blew up?

It demotes Finn, the character who was the lead male of the last film, to a “comedic” c-plot that ends up going in a cul-de-sac, one that even the film’s defenders have said could have been cut and nothing be lost. And, in particular, this is noticeable because the plot of TFA moved BECAUSE of Finn - without Finn, Poe doesn’t escape, Rey doesn’t get off Jakku, the Resistance doesn’t go to Starkiller and destroy it. TFA hinged on Finn. TLJ treats him like a vestigial limb it can’t sever.

(No, really, based on what TFA establishes, FINN is the counterbalance to Kylo Ren - Kylo is a scion of a powerful line of Force users, Finn didn’t even have a NAME until TFA began, Kylo is the face of the First Order, Finn was a faceless stormtrooper, which is why the moment he first takes off his helmet means so much, Kylo was raised by heroes of the Republic and turned to the First Order, Finn was raised by the First Order and turns his back on it... The thematic parallels between them are ALL FUCKING OVER TFA! But TLJ wants him to go away, and there’s no chance for him to rebuild that plot momentum in Rise of Skywalker.)

Also on the level of connection to the previous film... Why the HELL is a coma patient stuffed in a storage closet, rather than the medbay with doctors monitoring him? And he’s then repeatedly tazed by Rose, which is again played for laughs. Finn’s injuries are played as a joke.

With Finn’s demotion, it elevates Kylo Ren, the villain, an explicit parallel to neo-natsees (because the Empire ALWAYS had its roots in natsee imagery, and the First Order is explicitly drawing on those, just like neo-natsees), into the lead male position. 

Rey ends up reduced to his prize - over the course of TFA, her interactions with him were, in order, him rendering her unconscious and kidnapping her, torturing her, killing her mentor (his own father), and grievously wounding Finn, the first person in her life who came back for her, which was part of her driving characterization in the previous film. Her motivations are reduced to proving to Luke that she won’t be like Kylo Ren, and then trying to get someone she has no motivation to genuinely care about to redeem himself.

That “redemption,” I say again, is being offered by her after, again, she was kidnapped and tortured by him, she watched him kill Han Solo, who she saw as a paternal figure herself, and he put Finn, someone she’d already come to care for and who was the first person in her life to come back for her, in a coma. What motivation is there for her to TRY to redeem him? And if you want to say “Force Bond,” then that means that something is forged between her and Kylo, without her consent, that makes her care for him, actively manipulating her mind, and this just... happens.

The whole “Rey’s parents” thing is also a problem because it is ignoring HER reaction - it’s all about subverting the audience’s expectations, without caring about how she as a character responds. She never needed her parents to be a Kenobi, a Jinn, a Skywalker, whoever. They didn’t need to be somebody to the audience, they just were people she needed. Even the idea that they were drunks... They were the drunks who gave birth to her, who left her behind, and she wanted just to know why. 

And why should anyone even believe that Kylo Ren would know that they’re just nobodies when it’s been like three days since they even met - none of his informants could have chased down any leads to the point of determining this in that time, if he even WAS looking for them. So by the same measure of “how does he know this?” is the question of “why should she believe him?”

It does not explain Luke’s change of character in near enough detail - this is a character who refused to kill DARTH VADER, his father, a man he barely knew, only really knowing him as the great boogeyman of the Empire, and yet I’m supposed to believe that he would actively attempt a premeditated murder of his own nephew, who he would have known all of said nephew’s life, for what he MIGHT do? There NEEDED more of points B and C to connect points A and D here.

Also on the subject of Luke, in the last movie, it was explicit - Luke had vanished and left a map behind. Why would you leave a map to a place you intend to run away to and be forgotten and die? 

This movie, indeed, SHRANK the galaxy far, far away to ludicrous levels - the Resistance is in the fringes of the New Republic, yet Canto Bight, a major casino resort hub of war profiteering, is a casual jump away? Also, if the Resistance fleet couldn’t jump there, how can a small ship like Finn and Rose’s do that? Doesn’t the fleet need every vehicle and every drop of fuel? Rey’s gone after Luke, to a planet forgotten by the rest of the galaxy, her training pretty clearly taking place over days, at least, if not more. And yet simultaneously, the ticking clock of the Resistance’s fuel running out happens, and she still manages to arrive in the midst of their escape? This timeline is a goddam mess.

Rian Johnson explicitly said that he wanted Holdo to be flirtatious with Poe. And told the costume designer NOT to dress her in the uniform befitting an admiral. Right there, you lose me on Holdo being in the right during the mutiny - we have an existential threat to the Resistance, and she’s dressed like she’s going for drinks with Senators and apparently supposed to be flirting with Poe. 

And I’m giving this its own bullet point - they actively changed the language of the film to try and frame her as more in the right. She was redubbed after the fact to have different dialogue and tone with Poe, while leaving his side of the conversation alone, seemingly to portray him more as a hotheaded maverick when what we’re seeing is him responding to the existential threat they are facing. I HAVE to address this, because they changed what the characters are reacting to after the fact to push a narrative of Poe being wrong, when he WAS acting in the Resistance’s best interests throughout.

Because his demotion is crap - the Original Trilogy showed the X-Wings and similar snubfighters having independent hyperdrive, there was no reason to keep the fleet there for the sake of recovering them based on the text of the film and the established technology of the setting. Leia could have jumped the fleet and let them rendezvous later. Keeping the fleet there? That was her blunder, not Poe’s. 

Meanwhile the dreadnaught? That was a MAJOR target - It had over 200,000 First Order troops. For a group on the fringe, LIKE THE FIRST ORDER WAS IN TFA, that’s a major loss of personnel and material. And that slow-moving target of the dreadnaught was the kind of target those bombers should have been designed for. And if they were really so valuable that they were all lost against the dreadnaught and it was a major blow to the Resistance, those bombers should have been scrapped for parts long before. So, based on what the First Order was originally established as in TFA, Poe did the right thing. His problem is that TLJ CHANGED what the First Order was.

And, again, with the existential threat of the First Order on their tails, Poe, one of the Resistance’s best pilots AND the guy who blew up Starkiller, should have been on the list of people who deserved to be in the know of the plan - if you’re worried about traitors (which Holdo never actually SAYS), he’s pretty clearly not working for them. So she’s holding over the fact that he lost people on a mission against him, which... I’m sorry, but what the fuck with that, EVERY fighter pilot mission we have seen in the films has led to losses.

And when he does find out the plan - the plan that he asks her, three times, in private, in public, and at gunpoint, to even just tell him EXISTS, not even the details of - he’s completely accepting of it. So the whole conflict exists because she doesn’t talk to anyone about it.

Because, before anyone brings up “she has no responsibility to tell an underling her ideas,” she may not, but there was a chance, right before the mutiny went through, for her to defuse the situation entirely, since, as we see, once he knows the plan, he’s willing to go along with it. And it’s not like Poe was acting alone - there were others in the mutiny, including Connix, who we’d seen in charge of the evacuation, which gives the impression she has at least some position of authority. And she wasn’t filled in on Holdo’s plan either. 

Holdo’s flaw is assuming that, because she is the named authority - explicitly the last link in the chain of command - that all the people under her command should just fall in line. But the Resistance was, like the First Order, reverted into the Rebellion for this movie - in TFA, it was not a military service but a volunteer militia of people who were acting in service specifically of one person, Leia Organa. Not Holdo. So when the whole damn organization formed to follow one person, and that one person is taken out of commission, it NEEDS someone willing to extend trust to take charge. Poe was doing that by wanting to hear her out. Holdo was failing to do that by not even bothering.

Yoda’s appearance is undeserved - this is the same Jedi who, if he’d had his way, would have refused Luke’s training in Empire Strikes Back because he was “too old,” even though that was always the plan, to train the Skywalker child, and, as shown by the prequels, was the embodiment of the Jedi Order’s hubris back in the days of the Old Republic. If anyone deserved to have that moment with Luke, it was Anakin, because Anakin was the embodiment of where the Jedi teachings and values had failed - when your prophesized “Chosen One” ends up being at odds with almost all your expectations of the “model” Jedi, the Force is probably trying to tell you something. But no, Yoda’s the fan favorite, so Yoda appears and undermines his own message of “failure, the greatest teacher is.” Yoda’s failures had as much to do with the fall of the Jedi as anyone else’s, and when he had the chance to learn from it, he was going to pass it up.

By the end of the film, both the Resistance and the First Order are devastated. Kylo Ren is Supreme Leader of a handful of vessels with no real power base, while the Resistance fits semi-comfortably in Han Solo’s old beat up weed van. Meanwhile the New Republic is still in shambles. No one WON. All they got from victory was survival. By this point, they’re BOTH defeated, so... Where even was the story going to GO from here?

Also... That focus on the child slaves on Canto Bight at the end? Yeah, fine enough moment on its own, but... We already HAD child slaves established in this trilogy. Because Finn was taken as a child and conscripted, along with all the other stormtroopers of the First Order. So why didn’t THAT get any attention? Indeed, his infiltration of the First Order is no more than show, existing for like five minutes, rather than... y’know, trying to set up a stormtrooper rebellion, something that, by virtue of his character, should have been a running theme through the trilogy. Yet, see again, “Finn is a vestigial limb the movie can’t cut off” - we know from the DVD, he had A LOT of scenes cut and rewritten, at his character’s expense, after, again, being the leading man of the previous movie.

If this film had been a standalone film, like Rogue One or Solo, one of the Star Wars Stories films, rather than a main series film, I’d say it was a good Star Wars movie. But... As part two of a trilogy, part eight of a saga, it fails to connect to the rest of the story, and that, more than anything, is why Rise of Skywalker was what it was. If you didn’t care for Rise of Skywalker, look at what TLJ left for it in terms of connective narrative tissue, and where the story could go from there.

It might be a good film, but it was NOT a good Star Wars film. And I’m judging it as one.

[twilightofthe]

@nerdgatehobbit Hey! Thanks for the question! Ik you asked this to my main but imma respond on my SW blog if that’s okay?

So whew that’s a big question. Do I honestly think that Dave kept Obi Wan and Padmé and then Anakin and Satine from interacting in the TCW show because they didn’t want shipping wars?

(Remember, these are all just my personal opinions. I do me and you do you!)

Short version? Yes and no. Long version? Under the cut because I can never shut up.

Firstly, I don’t wanna say this was all Dave’s decision. He was one of the top guys in charge of TCW, yes, but he was far from the only one, there was an entire creative team working on the project, and during the time of TCW’s original six seasons Lucasfilms was not owned by Disney yet and George Lucas himself had a very large amount of creative control over the entire show. So I don’t really think it’s fair at all to point fingers at any choices the show made and go “yep that’s completely 100% Dave’s fault alone”.

I also don’t quite think they were concerned about shipping wars in the way ATLA had them. Avatar’s shipping wars were so absolutely toxically rancid that they legit drove me right out of that fandom. I’m still hesitant to come back during the current renaissance because of them. Star Wars, prior to the Sequel Trilogy, never had shipping wars close to that calibre of pure nastiness. The fandom was a godawful cesspool that fought to the death on most aspects of the franchise, this has always been true, but shipping, if I’ve read right, was somehow never really one of those hot button issues within fandom. I don’t think Lucasfilms kept the Clone Wars four apart because they were afraid of fans fighting over ships.

That being said, Lucasfilms HAS always been Very Strict on how they want their characters to be seen, romantic-wise, way back to when they would terrorize Original Trilogy slash shippers back in the 80’s and 90’s with threats of legal action. It’s part of why they were Very Firm in their insistence that they had absolutely nothing to do with all the Luke/Mara Jade EU stuff. You either abided by LF’s canonical romances or not at all in their world. So yes, in the case of Obi Wan and Padmé, I absolutely think the writing team’s decision to keep the pair of them apart was almost entirely so fans didn’t ship them together.

Why do I think this? Because there is no other rational reason why Obi Wan and Padmé haven’t had a single second of screentime in TCW that hasn’t had either Anakin or Satine also in the room as a buffer. Not when Revenge of the Sith EXPLICITLY portrays their relationship as relatively close friends who care about each other. So nope, I genuinely think the show just doesn’t want the fans to consider any other relationship for Padmé besides Anakin.

But why would they do this just to her and Obes? Obi Wan and Padmé both have other friends of different genders, why don’t they worry about us shipping THEM? Well for Obi Wan’s case, it can be excused that he flirts with everyone, so we’re conditioned to think that it’s never anything serious, and none of the other characters are married to the main character of the series. This is entirely because of Padmé’s position. Yes, she has other male friends, but either they’re nonhuman and not conventionally attractive so the series doesn’t see them as a threat, they’re Clovis, who they actively show Anakin going into a jealous fit over, or they’re Bail, who can be excused by the fact that he’s already married and also because he’s never actively shown as in competition with Anakin for anything, so he’s not threatening either.

Obi Wan, on the other hand, is a major threat to Anidala in the show’s eyes. They already constantly make a point to compare him and Anakin in almost every opportunity. Which is strange, the show’s decision to force them into the role of narrative foils to each other when in the movies that isn’t the case at all— Obi Wan is much more of a foil to Sidious and Anakin’s foil is Luke —but yeah, the show very often has Obes and Ani going through similar situations with competing viewpoints— ESPECIALLY their canon romances, and I won’t rant about how the show’s attempted Anidala and Obitine parallels fall apart under scrutiny right now but if yinz want the rant sometime let me know.

Obi Wan also has the canonical ability to charm the pants off of literally everyone he meets. Nearly everyone in canon is in love with him, 80% of the fandom at least is in love with him, and I KNOW most of the crew was in love with him too. Anakin, on the other hand, has a very abrasive personality and is much easier to dislike. The show was ALREADY terrified of the fans not liking or wanting to root for Anakin to the point that they reworked his entire personality to make him more palatable to his critics from the movies. Plus, Obidala fans already existed! Since the first and second PT movies, a big group of people already shipped these two because they already thought Obi Wan was a preferable match to Padmé than Anakin. The studio did not want to encourage this.

So yes, I think it was a combination of the show’s tendency to already try and get the fans to compare Obi Wan to Anakin for everything else plus their insecurity in Anakin’s image and likeability as it was, that they did Not want the handsome charming not-future-evil guy around the leading lady and threatening her canon romance by existing as a possibly better option. So Obi Wan and Padmé got no stories together, just kinda throwing the opening ROTS left them in the garbage ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ The worst part is, there is so many potential places in TCW where Obi Wan and Padmé could talk to each other, like during her investigation into her friend’s murder, during the Clovis arc, bits during the Malevolence arc, the earlier Naboo crisis arcs, even the one time where she’s just hosting a damn party and wants to invite her friends gahhhhhhhh

Anakin and Satine, I also think yes, but this is also a case of half and half because Satine isn’t nearly as major a character as the other three are, and out of the nine episodes she appears in, she only has more than a singular line in seven of them, and out of those seven, only two of them aren’t revolves entirely around building her relationship with Obi Wan. So really, there is a defence for the writers here in noting that there’s not as much room to explore Satine’s character as it is, let alone trying to shoehorn in a scene with Anakin.

Except no, I’m not gonna give them that defence because in the two episodes where she only has a speaking line or less— Obi Wan’s funeral and the Ahsoka and Lux meet Death Watch ep —I can already easily think of ways she and Anakin could have really meaningful interactions in them both. Y’all have already heard my bit on how they could have a real important conversation at the funeral, but y’all HAVEN’T seen my idea for a rewrite of the Carlac ep where it’s a two-parter, Anakin comes with Ahsoka and Padmé to the negotiations on Mandalore, and it ends up with a subplot of Anidala chasing after Ahsoka and Lux with Satine as the put-upon third wheel and we get foreshadowing to Satine being Bo Katan’s sister, so when the reveal happens the next season it actually means something.

So yeah, it was partially because of timing constraints, but it was also DEFINITELY in part because they didn’t want Satine being shipped with Anakin— which ppffffft, if they were brave enough to actually try writing these two in a conversation in-character, they’d understand how much of a not-worry this would be xD —because the show is set on the fact that despite maybe there being other flings at some point, Obi Wan and Satine are each other’s one true tragic love (Or, at least Obi Wan is Satine’s. He’s always had more freedom and decision than she has in this narrative, and that’s always kinda bugged me). So, that means Satine can’t interact with any men unless they’re gonna betray her trust and try to kill her by the end of the episode, because the show needs Obi Wan to have a loyal, steady, good girlfriend because he is a good man.

(And yes, before anyone says it, I have heard the more unpleasant rumors behind why exactly Obi Wan was given a girlfriend in the show, but as I’ve yet to see any official proof of them besides fandom salt, I’m not gonna spread them because those are hefty accusations to throw around).

So yeah, Satine can’t talk to Anakin partially because time constraints, but also because she isn’t allowed to talk to any other nice men besides Obi Wan and her son (no I don’t particularly like the Korkie Kenobi thing, but it is blatantly obvious that that is what the show was implying and I’m not gonna pretend otherwise), and Obi Wan and Padmé can’t talk to each other entirely because the show saw Obidala as a threat to Anidala.

Again, just my opinions and things I noticed, y’all are more than free to disagree and discuss with me.

[travllingbunny]

The 100: 7x04 Hesperides

The first quarter of season 7 is kind of like the first quarter of season 2 on steroids - everyone separated in several groups in different locations, looking for each other and having no idea where the others really are, while the show is doing world-building and introducing information about the main threat, setting up the main story that will really kick into gear later.

The main difference is, of course, that in season 2 we saw all of the characters, pretty much in every episode. But now, Bellamy has been missing since his disappearance early in 7x01 (which, of course, is mostly due to external reasons), and we have been in the dark about Octavia’s fate since she was pulled back to Bardo in 6x13, and have only seen her in flashbacks. Clarke, Octavia and Raven have had episodes centered on them (the first, second and third one, respectively), but there has been no or very little of Octavia in the other three episodes, and even Clarke has taken somewhat of a back seat in the last 3 episodes. 

In the meantime, the B-list characters from the main cast - Echo, Gabriel and Hope - have taken center stage and gotten their own great stories. Hope, in particular, has been the character with the most focus in these early episodes - which isn’t that surprising as the show has to quickly give her all the fleshing out, backstory and development that other characters have had seasons to build. And we’ve gotten new characters - guest stars developed over just one episode or one scene - who have been given enough characterization and sympathetic qualities to make their deaths feel tragic and emotional (Hatch, Dev, Orlando).

No, I don’t think that this is a sign of the show focusing more on supporting characters and sidelining its protagonists in the final season, as some fans have been complaining and freaking out about. I’m sure that the mains will soon take center stage again, which is why their storylines this season are just starting or have been set up - while other characters have been given this early stage of season 7 to shine and get a lot of the story now. Another way those smaller stories feel relevant is that they are full of parallels and callbacks to the bigger stories from previous seasons.

I’m still not sure what relevance the title exactly has for this episode, and I’m not convinced that it is just supposed to be about 7x04. Yes, Hesperides were three maidens in a garden - like Octavia, Diyoza and Hope, and it was the topic of a cute exchange between Octavia and Hope (another Blake sibling teaching kids about the Greco-Roman mythology), but what are the “golden apples” that Hesperides were guarding and that Heracles/Hercules had to steal as one of his tasks? The only really valuable object on Skyring is the Anomaly Stone. But if that it what it’s about, that’s not something that has happened yet. Or do golden apples stand for something less tangible, like family, love, trust? Were Gabriel, Echo and Hope a new Hesperides trio (even though calling Gabriel a maiden in any sense of the word is a bit of a stretch), with Orlando as the dragon guarding the garden, or they thieves? I have no idea. I’m going to wait for the rest of the season to maybe give an answer. Maybe we’ll come back to the story of Hercules stealing the apples. That story also includes Atlas (who literally carries the weight of the world), and I wouldn’t be surprised if he is referenced, too.

Worldbuilding

The biggest takeaway from this episode for me were the really strong hints supporting the theory - which I’ve firmly believed in - that the Disciples are an off-shoot of Second Dawn and that their leader, the mysterious Shepherd, is Bill Cadogan. We learn that Disciples have different levels and that the highest one (?) appears to be “Level 12″ - which is reminiscent of the Second Dawn’s “12th seal”. Orlando prays to the “Shepherd, who delivered us from the fire that consumed the Earth”.

One of the most interesting parts of this episode was learning about the planets connected to the Anomaly (which we have a bit more info on than the characters do, thanks to the opening titles!) - which I’ve covered here. (Yes, the planet which was offline is Earth.) 

There are thousands of Disciples, highly trained soldiers, guarding the “fortress”, as Orlando called it. They are highly trained and dangerous - better fighters than pretty much anyone we’ve met. However, they have apparently never been in a battle - at least not the current generations.  They are preparing for something they call “the last war that mankind will ever wage”/”the war to end all wars” (?). Now, who could this war possibly be with, and why do they think they need Clarke as a weapon to win it? It sure can’t be anyone on Sanctum - Wonkru has dwindled to about 400 people, and everyone from Sanctum (from Prime guards to CoG) are pretty incompetent and terrible at fighting. Unless the war is just metaphorical, there must be some other people on one of the planets... Maybe the Eligius people and the Second Dawn are two different factions after all?

The Disciples are incredibly technologically advanced (which may not be so surprising, considering the fact that - if Bardo time is faster than Sanctum, and I think it must be, their society has existed for much, much longer than 230 years - and they have an amazing SciFi technique called memory capture. Which explains how they knew about Bellamy, Echo and Gabriel in 7x01.

The layout of Bardo - drawn by Orlando - provides a lot of info about the life there: there are living quarters, a galley/mess hall (it’s interesting that they use the word “galley” - which is normally used for the kitchen on a ship, train or aircraft), cell blocks, training quarters, arboretum, and so on; we see the first mention of “conductors” - presumably people who manage the travel via the Anomaly Stone - and the most interesting part: there are cryo labs, and “Shepherd” is mentioned in relation to them. Like everyone else, I immediately thought about it being a way for Cadogan to be still alive. 

Because of that, I’m starting to revise my earlier theory about Cadogan being on Etherea (which I speculate to be the planet closest to the black hole, with the ‘slowest’ time) - but now I think that maybe some other people are there, who may be seen as enemies of the Disciples? 

The Skyring trio and Orlando

The first 3 episodes have had the “Previously on” spoken by different cast members (Eliza, Marie and Luisa), which I feel is going to happen throughout the season. But this is the first episode of season 7 with no “Previously on”.

Instead, the episode opened on Hope’s 7 minute backstory scene. If this was an earlier season and some of the main characters we’ve known from the start were involved, it would take at least an entire episode. But this scene was a really well done montage, with little dialogue and done through visuals and a well chosen song (”Hymn” by Joel Porter), representing 10 years that Hope spent on Sanctum, her budding relationship with a Disciple/prisoner Dev - the first male and only the third person she’s ever met in her life, who became something of a father figure for her, and the one who trained her to fight and taught her about Bardo. We have met Dev before - as a corpse, and it was easy to guess from the state he was in that he was killed by Disciples while letting Hope escape. We don’t know anything about his life before he was sent to Skyring for a 10 years sentence - such as, what he was punished for. Maybe Dev (who was Level 7) was never such a true believer as Orlando. And in that case, it would have been easier for him to decide to devote his life to helping this child find her family. Of course, family bonds forged that way - as the only two people, an adult taking care of a child who’s been left alone - must be incredibly strong. 

One of the reasons why this scene worked so well and created so much sympathy for a character we see for only a few minutes, is that it told a story similar to stories we have seen before with the main characters. It was a lot like Madi and Clarke, especially the part where the child was initially hostile and the adult had to break the ice (Clarke did it with a drawing of Madi, Dev ate the paint berries that aren’t good to eat - probably intentionally, since I think he must have heard Hope yelling he shouldn’t eat them - so Hope would take care of him). And Clarke’s relationship with Madi was, in itself, something that paralleled Bellamy’s pseudo-paternal relationship with his younger sister. Octavia’s relationship with Hope was also something that made her understand her brother better. And Dev was reminiscent of Bellamy, especially with the knife throwing scene, which is reminiscent of Bellamy and Charlotte. Except for the fact that Hope was not murderous - unlike Charlotte, who was already incredibly damaged. In fact, Hope not being able to kill, freezing and not joining the battle (unlike Madi, who was able to kill to save Clarke - but Madi had been taught to fight and defend herself against Flamekeepers as enemies) that she had been preparing for, was the reason why Dev got killed. 

We still need to see one final part of Hope’s backstory - what happened when she got to Bardo, how she found a “friend on the inside”, how she made a deal with Anders, why the Disciples have orders to kill her on sight. Until then, we don’t know if killing a Disciple to save Echo was the first time Hope has killed someone. But I think it probably was, because it was an important moment for her - a replay of her old trauma, with her not hesitating this time and being able to protect a friend she’s spent years with. Hope has been trying to be tough, but we already saw in 7x02 that there was a lot of vulnerability, insecurity and lack of experience behind that. Echo called her out on not being able to be a killer in 7x02. Based on her experience, Hope would probably agree with Echo’s mantra that “Hesitation is death” (which it was, for the original Echo and not for AshEcho). Her mother probably wouldn’t be too happy for her, since she wanted - pretty unrealistically, unless Hope was to live away from the human race - to keep her away from the kind of life she used to have. Diyoza even kept her past a secret from Hope - before Gabriel put a foot in his mouth in more ways than one and mentioned Diyoza’s past as a Navy SEAL and terrorist (or “freedom fighter”. PoTAto- poTAYto).

As it turns out, the main plot of the episode was a replay and ironic contrast to the opening scene. It was a bit weird that Hope suggested getting close to Orlando, saying “Trust me, I’ve done this before” - as if she had deliberately manipulated Dev to become close to her, which I really don’t think was the case. (I’d also say that it’s weird that Echo - a spy - was not the one thinking along these lines, but had to be convinced by Hope and Gabriel. But the show has always portrayed Echo as a fighter/assassin rather than an actual spy, who gets close to people and gathers intel.) Hope. Echo, Gabriel and Orlando spent 5 years together, and must have gotten at least somewhat close to each other and to him. He trained them, like Dev trained Hope. But they started to get close to him on purpose, as a part of their plan, pretending to be a happy family and hoping he would want to join in. Which proved right. Orlando also felt protective of Hope, like Dev, which they also used as bait. However, he realized he was being played - proving smarter and less gullible than they had assumed - but agreed to everything anyway, somewhat out of loneliness and desire for human contact and relationships (maybe the same kind he had on Bardo with the people he trained). Maybe he was hoping that he could influence them enough, just like they were hoping - or at least Gabriel was - to be able to change his mind and make him less devoted to his faith. Gabriel’s points about false gods and blind faith seemed to strike a chord, but he still stuck to his faith - maybe because this was all he had ever known.

But after 5 years together, at least some of the bonds must have been real. However, everyone kept their own agenda, and the prior bonds remained the strongest - including Orlando’s attachments to the Disciples he had trained. Echo’s main allegiance remains Bellamy, Hope hopes to save her mother and Aunty O, and Echo thinks that they are still not “his (Orlando’s) people”*.   It’s interesting that we saw these people spend time together on screen and get closer, with funny and warm moments, the kind we don’t often get in this show, but they do not seem to be a real family at the end - in contrast to Spacekru: with them, we were told multiple times hat they had become a close family unit, although we never saw that process on screen. So it would seem that bonding worked better during the 6 years of peace and boredom in space, than during the 5 years of peace and boredom on Skyring. (Or did it? I would argue that Spacekru being “close family” was never quite convincing and was only used as a plot device to create conflict between Bellamy and Clarke or Bellamy and Octavia, but that it’s the relationships that pre-dated the Ring that proved to be the strongest.)

* Out of the 4 people on Skyring, Gabriel is the only one doesn’t really seem to have any strong emotional attachments at the moment, after Josephine’s death, and is there apparently mostly for his scientific curiosity about the Anomaly. We only see Gabriel react emotionally when loses his temper, to the point of becoming physically violent to Orlando. (Which is in character - remember that he killed Eduardo in anger?)

Let’s talk a bit more about Echo.

One of the things that struck me about Echo’s interactions with Hope and Gabriel this season is that she has more chemistry with them than we have seen her have with anyone before, especially a lot more than she’s ever had with Bellamy, and that she’s also showing a lot more personality: we see her joking, showing some sass (I would think it’s the new writer - Niylah has also suddenly became sassy and made snarky remarks in this episode - but she’s also had those moments in 7x02), she is perceptive of Hope’s emotional states. Now to be fair, though she never really glued so well on screen with the Spacekru, we did see her joke around with Monty and banter with Murphy or Raven. But, since they have become an item, always becomes incredibly bland around Bellamy - as it his presence turns her into her role as a follower/soldier/servant. It’s not something that Bellamy does on purpose, it’s just the fact that Echo has picked him as her King and gravitates towards him that way. 

In 7x01, her own subconscious was telling her (just as it did in 6x02 during the red sun eclipse) that she needs Bellamy because she wouldn’t have anyone to follow without him, and questioned if her devotion to him is really about love, or about her need to have a purpose (reminding her that she was so loyal to Queen Nia that she betrayed “the man she now claims to love”). In that context, her single-minded focus on saving Bellamy (”I wouldn’t know what to do without him”) sounds less romantic and more unhealthy, something she needs to learn to grow out of. This is the second season in which she has a lot of interaction with a character whose main trait is blind faith and devotion to a master - in season 6 it was Jade, now it’s Orlando. Echo’s words to Orlando - “It must be hard to dedicate your whole life to something that may never come" sounds ominously like something that may apply to herself.

A comparison between Echo and Finn in season 2 has crossed my mind, but to make things clear - I don’t think their actions are similar. Finn became deranged and killed a lot of unarmed people for no reason; Echo is just being herself, once again, repeating old patterns. But the similarity is in the fact that they are obsessed - in a way that may not be too healthy - with saving a love interest, who may end up being not too happy about it. I don’t know if Echo’s actions at the end of this episode will be brought up between her and Bellamy and if he will learn about them - but the facts are that a) he has consistently shown he cares, loves, needs Clarke more and values her take on morality (or her at her best - because Clarke has not always stuck to it in the past, but has started off that way and has been trying to live by it since the end of season 5) as something he tries to live by, and b) he has been committed to “doing better” and not repeating old mistakes since season 4, while Echo is usually suggesting solutions based on killing and violence, which Bellamy almost always rejects, and Echo falls in line, because Bellamy is the leader.

But left to her own devices, even after spending 11 years in peace, whenever trouble arises, Echo tends to fall back to her upbringing by Azgeda and Queen Nia: “Hesitation is death”. While her circumstances have changed so much since season 4, she has remained fundamentally the same in many ways. It’s not that she doesn’t feel compassion (when she has to hurt someone she has some connection to - she looked sad when she was leaving Orlando. Just as she looked sad when she thought Octavia was dead and had to bring the news to Bellamy in S4), but that doesn’t change her fundamental belief in what should be done. Did she need to kill the four unconscious Disciples? That’s debatable. (It depends on whether you think they could have used the Anomaly Stone to jump back to Bardo - even if they had taken or destroyed all their suits - in time to catch Echo, Hope and Gabriel. But this possibility wasn’t even mentioned by Echo and the others.) What’s certain is that she thought she had to: she knew she had to leave Orlando, because he was too upset by the death of someone he had trained (even though, to be fair, Echo had told him something like that might happen); he could have told the Disciples about them; when there is a threat that can stop you, you must eliminate it. She only left Orlando alive because of their bond, but what she did was even worse as it made him commit suicide. 

Again, I don’t know if Orlando could have used the Anomaly Stone to jump to Bardo, or if he really would have had to spend years alone, again, as Gabriel assumed. But I think the main reason for his suicide was the fact that, because he had let himself trust these people - maybe out of loneliness - he had indirectly caused deaths of Disciples he had trained and cared about. In any case, the show managed to make this character sympathetic in such a short amount of screentime, and make his fate really tragic, in a dark twist after an episode that often felt lighthearted. (I felt really sorry for the guy - kudos to the actor, Darren Moore.) Echo, Gabriel and Hope did not anticipate this, so they will probably feel terrible when they find out. And Hope and Gabriel are responsible, too, because, in spite of their objections, they went along with it.

If Hope killing to save Echo was a replay of her trauma with a different outcome, Echo has replayed her own trauma with the same outcome: she had to kill her friend to save herself. And all she has learned from it is that she has to do the same, every time. Only, we can’t blame her for what she was forced to do to save her own life as an abused child. This time, however, she did not kill in self-defense or battle, but afterwards, when the Disciples were already unconscious. Her betrayal of Orlando also recalled her betrayal of Bellamy in season 3. She had not spent more than a tiny amount of time around Bellamy then, but he considered her a friend he could trust, and she used his trust and got people he cared about and people he felt responsible for killed, causing him to feel enormous guilt. 

Now, I’ve seen the argument that Echo doesn’t need redemption, because her story is about finding independence instead of being a follower. But it can be about both. Her story may not have so far been about “doing better” - although she has heard Monty’s message together with everyone else, and repeated the words “I guess it’s time to do better” during the battle in 6x13 (only after Bellamy has made his decision what to do). But that makes her stick like a sore thumb in a show where the last two seasons have been based on that idea - doing better, not repeating old mistakes. It means that she needs not just to find her independence, but to rethink her methods and world view. I don’t subscribe to the idea that being a follower absolves one of every responsibility for carrying out their master’s orders. The Nuremberg defense, “I was following orders”,is not considered a good defense in court. It’s even less so in terms of morality and personal responsibility. Now, it’s true that a lot of fans hate Echo and tend to judge her more harshly than the other characters - but at least a part of the reason for that is the fact that the show has done very little to have her face the consequences of her actions, as opposed to most of the other characters. Characters who held a similar view of “kill or be killed” have been reviled and killed off (Charles Pike says Hi). In the show, Bellamy has been called out on, physically punished, felt enormously guilty and had a long redemption arc for participating in the killing of an armed, experienced and dangerous army (who may not have been a threat, but it’s understandable why he and Pike considered them a threat), which was considered incredibly evil just because said warriors were killed while sleeping (which makes no sense, but OK) - even though he also was not in charge, Pike was. And Bellamy never used the “following orders” defense and instead felt responsible and did his best to change and do better. In season 5, he was the one who opposed to idea of killing Eligius prisoners who were in cryo sleep (while Echo, like Murphy, supported the idea). Echo has now killed Disciples while they were unconscious. Back in season 3, Echo facilitated and supported a mass murder of civilians done not because of any threat or misguided wish to protect her people, but as a part of a scheme to give her clan more political power. 

Now, it may be argued that Echo didn’t have a choice to disobey - but we later saw, throughout season 4, when Nia was dead and Echo did not have to answer to her, that Echo was still constantly opting for violence and killing as the first option, often as a preemptive strike: killing a leader from another clan for just opposing her plan in public, egging on Roan to kill Clarke and the rest of the Sky people, when they haven't done anything to her or Azgeda and they weren't threatening her or them, telling Roan they betrayed him, kidnapping Bellamy and killing another Arker who was captured with Bellamy - for no reason. She didn’t even need to kill Ryker in season 6, either, regardless of whether we think he deserved it or not. And we have never seen Echo renounce Queen Nia’s legacy (which, lest we forget, is the legacy of someone who practiced genocide - including killing children - and slavery.) In season 4, she was always telling Roan he should be more ruthless, more like his mother, and she was still repeating things learned from her in season 6.

There was a character on Agents of SHIELD that Echo reminds me of (I won’t say his name for spoilers, for AoS fans should easily guess who I mean). This character also had a very tragic backstory - traumatic childhood, abuse, an evil mentor who was emotionally abusive to them but conditioned them to be blindly loyal and commit all sorts of crimes out of that loyalty, career as a spy/assassin who gets close to people and betrays and kills, pathological need for a leader to give them orders, or for some sort of a purpose, a tendency to resolve problems with violence. This character had a passionate fanbase who argued that, as a victim of abuse, he deserved a second chance, but the writers and most of the fandom was adamant that it was not enough to absolve him of responsibility for his crimes as an adult. The 100 is a show that is much more likely to give characters second chances and redeem them. But it’s also a show that normally makes characters work for it. To make Echo the one exception to the rule and give her a get-out-of-jail free card, declaring she doesn’t need to be held personally responsible for her actions, and that she doesn’t need to work to change and do better, would be both inconsistent with the overall themes of the show. and a huge disservice to Echo as a character.

Clarke & co. at Sanctum

It’s kind of funny that, before this season of t100 started, people thought/were worried Bellamy would recklessly jump into the Anomaly after Octavia - but instead, he was taken, and everyone else is recklessly jumping into the Anomaly without knowing where exactly they'll end up. Immediately planet hopping without any supplies or suits with oxygen wasn’t the wisest decision! I was wondering, like many people, why they did not at least take the suits from the dead Disciples. But someone on Twitter has pointed out that the suits probably got damaged by the blast from the energy weapon Raven took from the dead Disciple, which makes it all make more sense. For the rest, I can explain it by the urgency of the situation - they knew that more Disciples would be coming soon. (And the urgency turned out to be very justified - as a Disciple turned off the Anomaly Stone shortly after.) And I have no problem believing that Clarke is that desperate to find Bellamy “her people”. 

..Who are we kidding? If it was just Octavia, Echo and Gabriel, she’d still want to save them, but I don’t think she’d be immediately hopping to another planet without knowing for sure if it’s even survivable, and without saying goodbye to Madi. Some people were bothered that Clarke’s choice wasn’t played more emotionally and that she didn’t specifically mention Bellamy - but I disagree, because this is nothing new. For so many seasons, we’ve seen Clarke talking only in terms of saving “her people” or “her friends” even when everyone knew that Bellamy was the one she’s most emotionally attached to by far. (Going back to season 2 and “You care about him” - “I care about all of them” - “But you worry about him more.) I don’t need this spelled out right now. Maybe the show could have immediately delved a bit deeper into everyone’s reasons for planet hopping, but maybe they didn’t need to because we hopefully will see more of their emotions in the upcoming episodes, especially when they get stuck on the ice planet with a really nice name that kind of means “Hell” or “Purgatory”.

I didn’t take their cavalier remarks like “why not” and “this planet sucks anyway” seriously. What makes a lot more sense is if Niylah mostly wants to save Octavia - since we know how devoted she is to her. Miller may in particular feel he owes Bellamy to save him now, since he did not in season 5, which he felt guilty for and apologized about. And maybe that argument he had with Jackson in the previous episode (aka a few hours earlier) opened some wounds from Blodreina days, since Miller reacted by saying he isn’t just a follower. For Jordan, I suppose it may be a chance to participate in the heroic adventures of the group he’s only heard stories about. Raven has all sorts of reasons,  from saving her friends, to her scientific curiosity and love of space-faring adventures, to the fact that a part of her would probably want to be as far away from Sanctum and ‘the scene of the crime’ right now. 

I certainly hope that we delve more into everyone’s emotions and psychology in upcoming episodes, especially Clarke’s. She tends to try to keep her emotions inside, until they explode (and she beats up Russell and burns down the palace), and this has especially been the case this season. The Bellamy-shaped hole In the show has affected her - she isn’t able to be fully vulnerable with anyone the way she was with him (as recently as their hug in the season 6 finale). In this episode, it felt like she was mostly seen from the outside - we can take a good guess how she feels because of her actions, but it feels like she is seen from other people’s POV - whether her friends’ or the Disciples. From Niylah (who knows her well) saying “of course she is” when people were surprised she would go and risk her safety and freedom and maybe life when she was told they have her people, to Captain Meredith saying their intel on her is “smart, brave, willing to risk her life, not willing to risk the lives of her friends” (that must have come from Bellamy’s and Octavia’s memories), to Jordan announcing “Ladies and gentlemen, Clarke Griffin has left the planet”. (She is, after all, a legend for him especially, he was raised on stories about her. Raven is another legend for him, so he announced her the same way “Ladies and gentlemen, Raven Reyes”.)

But let’s go back to the beginning. I’ve seen people criticize the episode for “not showing the moment they realized Bellamy and others were missing”. I don't know why anyone thinks they would have realized they were missing before. This episode takes place very soon after the end of the previous one. (Clarke even hadn’t seen Raven after she had been beaten up by Nikki.) Bellamy, Octavia, Echo and Gabriel have been gone for about a day and a half at this point. Maybe they would have wondered “when are they coming back?”, but I don’t think they would have seen a reason to be worried - before a foraging party found a dead body of an unknown person with a mysterious suit and helmet. Which was followed by the mysterious people showing up and asking to talk to Clarke.

Raven is haunted by guilt throughout this episode (which makes perfect sense to me, as she has never really had to deal with being directly responsible for deaths in this way, let alone of people she knows), including a hallucination of irradiated Hatch, and Lindsey’s acting was really good.I loved her conversation with Clarke, where Clarke gave her a simple advice, from her own experience, which says a lot about how she has been able to go on: you will not forget the faces of those you’ve killed (we’ve seen Clarke be haunted by hallucinations of Finn and see dead, irradiated Maya in her mindspace), but think of the faces of all the people you have saved. I’m looking forward to more of Clarke/Raven bonding in S7.

I know I sound like a broken record, but one character whose characterization I don’t know how to feel about is Jordan, because of the way the show has been skirting around the issue of whether he has been brainwashed or not. But that may just be me being influenced by the fact that so many people are arguing he is not brainwashed, just because he doesn’t believe in the divinity of the Primes. But 1) he has undergone the process, 2) become weirdly attached and close to his brainwasher Trey and the other ‘Devout’, 3) formed a strange attachment to Priya’s mind drive and started blaming people for her death - seemingly forgetting about his actual dead girlfriend Delilah and her death, 4) is hanging out with people who worship his girlfriend’s murderers, while seemingly paying no attention to her grieving parents, and 5) did a 180 from despising the Primes as murderers to defending their society as “peaceful” and “happy” and spouting similar Prime propaganda BS (which we had previously heard from Josephine), blaming Earthkru for destroying that fake paradise. He does it again here, in an off-hand comment (“before we screwed up”), which sounds like he blames his friends for... what? Not being OK with Clarke being murdered and bodysnatched and trying to save her? Apart from Madi - who was under Sheidheda’s influence - all the others did was try to save Clarke and try to save themselves from getting burned at the stake, while also trying not to kill people. And now, we see Jordan happily plan to save Clarke from getting captured and having her memory extracted, or Miller, Niylah and Gaia killed, by having Raven kill 8 people, which bothered her a lot (especially with her recent experience getting Hatch and 3 other people killed), but didn’t seem to bother Jordan. Now, I’m not saying it should - it’s defending your friends - but how can he do that and at the same time blame his friends for trying to save Clarke from a much worse situation? He’s like two completely different people when he is with the Devout or says anything about them or the Primes, and when he is away from them (when he suddenly stops being annoying and saying absurd things). Either he is showing consequences of brainwashing by the Devout, or he is a terribly written, inconsistent character.

I wish we had seen a scene between Jackson and Miller (which must have been deleted, going by the promo pictures), before Miller abruptly left. He probably didn’t know he would be going to another planet, but he knew he would be risking his life, so some sort of a goodbye could have taken place. At least, with the fact that Jackson was present when they discovered the body of the Disciple, at least someone in Sanctum has some idea what happened, now that Gaia got kidnapped and would not be able to go and tell Madi, Jackson and everyone what happened to Clarke, Miller, Raven, Jordan and Niylah, in addition to Bellamy, Echo, Octavia and Gabriel. But the people in Sanctum are still going to be wondering what happened to all those people (now including Gaia) who are just gone. 

Did Clarke get to take the note? It wasn’t clear in the episode itself. If she had it, I wonder what Orlando wrote in it and if this would give her more info or just be more confusing. If he just said something like, there were three of them, two women and one man, she could assume those were Bellamy, Octavia and Echo - but she was already finding Meredith’s info hard to believe and thought he was lying. Everyone thought Bellamy shoot the Disciple they found, because he was the only one with a gun - which Echo actually took in 7x01, before losing it in the trip to Skyring - but all that happened doesn’t sound like something he’d do.

As I expected since the trailer came out, Gaia offered to be the one to stay behind take care of Madi and warn the others. (The show had to build a friendship and trust between Clarke and her to make it believable that Clarke would feel Madi would be safe with her, and so people wouldn’t criticize Clarke too much for leaving. Not that this is helping much, since she’s already getting some criticism thrown at her in the Facebook group.) But her getting kidnapped by a Disciple means that 1) Madi would have to face Sheidheda without the help of her former Flamekeeper, 2) people in Sanctum would have far less idea of what’s going on, and 3) Clarke and co. had no idea about it when they left, thinking that their people are relatively safe in Sanctum. At least Gaia didn’t need to warn them about the Disciples coming for them - since the Disciple has deactivated the Anomaly Stone. So, now Sanctum is offline, too.

Where is everyone now?

Octavia was pulled back to Bardo at the end of 6x13 and we still haven’t seen her in the present

Bellamy was kidnapped and taken to Bardo in 7x01 and we haven’t seen him since

Diyoza was already on Bardo as a captive

Echo, Hope and Gabriel jumped to Bardo from Skyring

Gaia has been kidnapped by a Disciple and taken to another planet - maybe Bardo, but maybe not (and I’m not sure how the Disciple even could have taken her to Bardo, when the Anomaly Stone had been set to Nakara, and the Disciple just turned if off, as far as I could see?)

Clarke, Raven, Jordan, Miller and Niylah jumped to a random planet and ended up on Nakara, the ice planet

Murphy, Emori, Madi, Indra and Jackson remained on Sanctum, together with Russell!Sheidheda, broken Wonkru, about 400 of them (including the Sangedakru - who worship Sheidheda), angry and hurt Nikki and 31 other Eligius prisoners, the Devout who still worship Russell and the Primes, and the Children of Gabriel, who want him dead.

Timeline: The 100 writers are indeed bad at math, or aren’t too bothered about making the timeline fit, and this is also clear in this episode.

Meredith, during his first meeting with Clarke, only told her "Your people killed 3 of mine" and told her to hurry "Where your friends are, time runs much faster. Every second counts". Which sounded like he only knew what they did on Sanctum,  and made it sound like they were still on Skyring (I'm sure time runs faster on Bardo than on Sanctum, too, but the time differential is not as extreme, so "every second counts" is a bit too dramatic. They'd only be a few hours older if they were on Bardo.)  

Which only makes sense from the Doylist perspective - the writers didn't want the audience to be spoiled on what happens in the Skyring storyline. But it makes no sense from the Watsonian perspective - Meredith should already know that they killed 5 more of his people and jumped.  Because those 5 years were about 2 minutes on Sanctum - so, it all happened a day earlier, in the timeline of 7x01. Logically, Meredith and his team must have known everything and then have been sent to Sanctum.

Body count: The Disciples are really dying a lot this season: 3 in 7x01, and in this episode, 5 more killed on Skyring (1 by Hope, 4 by Echo), 8 including Meredith killed on Sanctum by Raven, Orlando (reportedly) committed suicide. 17 dead Disciples since the start of the season.

In the flashback - 4 Disciple dieds: Dev killed 2, was mortally wounded by a third, but managed to detonate a grenade and kill his killer.

Rating: 8.5

[thessaliah]

Epic of Remnants between set up foreshadowing and clean up duty

Epic of Remnants (or part 1.5) is an awkwardly inserted anthology that serves as a 'breather' adventure between the two big crisis and enemies of part 1 and part 2. While it undoubtedly introduces important key members to Chaldea for part 2 (Musashi focus in one and Sherlock Holmes joins Chaldea in another), it can be skipped so it's treated as an additional backstory at best. It's curious how despite this, it's treated like a sidestory unnecessary for the main story log to continue. I think the reason is because Epic of Remnants doesn't focus on a Chaldea member, Mash is demoted to a side character, and rather the focus becomes contained to a Servant of the chapter without overachieving Chaldea people story to tell with Mash's connection and bonds (part 1 with Roman, part 2 first half with Team A, and now with Olgamarie and, if you follow that theory, possibly  Professor Lev). Nonetheless, it provides a cleanup duty and a set up for the next part. The cleanup duty with the pillar demons that escaped and threaten, in various fashion, the world, is pretty straightforward to explain. But what about the setup? I'll be concise and short, so there are details that could escape my attention because I don't feel like reading those chapters again. You are all free to add things I missed.

Let's begin with Agartha and Shinjuku, the first two chapters and seemly chapters that aren't connected to part 2. Seemly. Both chapters have a very similar theme: an invasion from fiction, fiction becomes real, reality can be deformed with fantasy, etc. The creation of Phantoms, fusing fictional beings to materialize their existence (or combine them with the ‘real’ ones), the existence of Agartha, the plan to drop a fantasy place to mess with the state of the world, the assigned roles forced onto Servants rewritten to be different. All those themes are important to part 2. Like Holmes joining Chaldea and his quest is about the thin line between 'fact' and 'fiction' and what is real and what isn't, in an interlude where the pruning phenomena is brought, as is the small fragile balance between the Age of Men and the Age of Gods that was left behind.

Skipping to Salem, the last one, it also deals with how superstition can be real or at least made real, the existence of the "evil gods" is ambiguous at best. We can call them gods of another universe (like the machine gods of Olympus or the Servant-verse) but their existence is far less tangible. We have a place that is isolated god-less soil to make it the perfect land for the god to descend, and a girl being the priestess and the god at the same time. Also the same horror happened over and over again, as if in a loop. These could be setups for the priestess and the god who are Beast VII, although the parallels are not quite the same because the nature and origin of it are completely different, it does require a certain ground to materialise, and priestess and god are one of the same deep down. Queen of Sheba's meeting Solomon stage play is also relevant. Some Japanese fans analysed the riddles are foreshadowing for part 2, specifically the last one, is about the Shadow Border. If you follow the Lev theory, he was brought up here in a less negative light, as the reason why the Queen of Sheba was summoned to help with Salem.

CCC, the Extra chapter introduced into an event, brings up the shady nature of the Animusphere family experiments as backdrop of what happens with the collab characters. The Counter Force dispatched Emiya Alter not to deal with Kiara, but to shut that place for good with those experiments using artificial (?) children for rayshifting. Note here two things: one that Zepar drops that Flauros reported this place as one of the causes for the unobservable zone (usually how Fuyuki Singularity is called) and the other is that there was another 'loop' (like Salem) of Grail war that run due to artificial simulation thing. This artificial simulation thing is extremely similar to Mooncell.

Finally, Shimousa doesn't just introduce to plot-relevant characters like Ashiya Douman, Muramasa (two apostles of the God, even if Muramasa wasn't in the introduction), and Musashi. But also set up what will happen to the planet via Amakusa rambling about the root of fantasy dropping from the sky. Shimousa is a pseudo parallel world, instead of a pseudo singularity. In other words, it's a proto-Lostbelt. If other works foreshadow more or less themes this one explores the new setting and even introduces the “God of another celestial body.” And leaves the question, where does it take place that is Guda’s soul/consciousness only that’s taken. The prison tower, acknowledged as happening in a similar fashion by the plot, was a hell that trapped souls, so it wasn’t a material plane, but what about Shimousa? 

Key themes:

Fiction becomes real. 

Fantasy invades reality. 

A priestess and a god that are one. 

A ship (country) which doesn’t stop for anything in a journey. 

Simulations and loops. 

Animusphere’s family secrets. 

A pseudo Parallel World. 

A “God of a different star.”

(Why do I highlight the tension between reality and fiction? Because the simulations Olga and Kirschtaria went through -we have a peek to Olga’s in Moonlight Lostroom- and because of the possibility the Lostbelts history is all from simulation/fabricated by Chaldea equipment). 

[ashes-and-ashes]

So I was thinking the other night about the parallels between many of my favourite ships. Lightning and Marauders was a piece about Drarry and Wolfstar but I was also thinking about how similar Wolfstar and Grindeldore were, with the same desperate loyalty between two people who would quite literally kill for each other. I did write something similar to this before but I like this one much better :)

Anyways, here it is!

~

The office hadn’t changed one bit.

Sirius spins in a slow circle, taking everything in; the floor-to-celling windows, the half drawn silk curtains, the spiral rugs on the floor and the cabinets full of glittering pieces of metal. He stares at the huge oak desk, all carved lions and leafy vines and grins, remembering when him and Remus -

The sound of footsteps cuts his thoughts off. Sirius tried to banish the flush from his cheeks, instead turning to watch Dumbledore enter the room.

He’s dressed in full Hogwarts regalia today, all flowing purple robes and silver stars. His beard is braided neatly too, all the way down to his chest, his eyes twinkling even in the dimness of the room.

“Sirius.”

He inclines his head. Dumbledore crosses over, sits down on the other side of the desk.

“You called, Headmaster?”

Dumbledore laughs. “You’re not at school anymore. There’s no need for formalities.”

Sirius shrugs. He slides into the chair opposite of Dumbledore, studying the surface of the wood. One hand taps an uneven beat at his side, alternating scraping fingernails and palm slaps. Dumbledore doesn’t seem bothered by this at all; he just continues to watch Sirius with a calm gaze.

“Sorry,” Sirius says, after what seemed like hours of silence. “What did you want?”

Dumbledore laughs. “Patience never was your strong suit Mr Black.”

“I seem to be doing alright without an abundance of it.”

“I suppose it’s even why I picked you to coordinate the Order.”

Sirius acknowledges the point. He stares at his wrists, the moon inked on the skin just above his pulse point. It was enchanted, to change shapes with the lunar cycle - right now it was a beautful crescent, dark against the tracery of his veins. He thumbs the skin absentmindedly, tracing the pad of his finger over the smooth lines of flesh.

God he missed Remus, so much that sometimes it hurt. Remus never even told him - Sirius had woken up one day to a cold bed and a note.

Si,

D sent me to Werewolf Camps. Don’t know when I’ll be back.

I love you more then anything,

Re

He clenches his teeth against the rising wave of anger slowly filling him. It wasn’t anyone’s fault. They were at war.

It still hurt though, not being able to see, to touch Re. Almost 4 months later and he still hadn’t received any information.

“Really,” Sirius says, in the silence of the room. “Why the hell did you call me here?”

Dumbledore just nods. “Ah, yes. I just wanted to...talk.”

Sirius snorts. “You brought me all the way to Hogwarts just to talk?”

“I thought the act of speaking to you in your old home would help.”

Sirius shrugs. He yanks at a stray hit of hair curling into his face, tucking it behind his ear. “No you didn’t. You want me to do something.”

Dumbledore just studies him. Finally he tilts his head, fingers clasped together on the desk. For the first time Sirius imagined what those butterflies in those glass boxes felt like; metal driven through wings, pinning him down and tearing him apart. That’s what Dumbeldore’s eyes looked like - huge jagged pins that stuck Sirius to the ground.

Finally Dumbledore spoke, his words slow and low. “You don’t mind if I tell you a bit of a story, do you?”

Sirius shrugs.

Dumbledore leans back in his chair, regarding Sirius with that piercing gaze. “Well, once, back in my youth I...met a very special...someone.”

“Congrats,” Sirius says. “Who’s the lovely bird?”

Dumbledore smiles. “His name was Gellert.”

The words hit Sirius like a ton of bricks. He gasps, mouth hanging open and wide, staring at Dumbeldore’s calm face. “So - you and - “

“Which part,” Dumbeldore’s asks calmly, “Do you find surprising?”

“The fact that - you were friends with - “

“Oh.” Dumbledore laughs. “We were more then that. Much like yourself and Mr Lupin. We were arrogant and bold and brave and all we wanted was to change the world.”

“So you were in - “ Sirius chokes on his words - he can’t imagine Dumbledore as anything more then his celibate professor.

Dumbledore just raises an eyebrow. “Love? Yes. It was a whirlwind, a breath in the space of a summer and sometimes I wonder if we would have lasted had we had more time.”

“But it didn’t,” Sirius says, hearing the finality at the end of Dumbledore’s words, the hard slam of a door. “It ended.”

Dumbledore inclined his head. “It did.”

“And do you regret it?”

Dumbledore just hums. He gets to his feet, suddenly looking very old, like the years had poured down on him turning youth into decay. “I can’t say I do.”

Sirius bites his lip, lets the legs of his chair slam down onto the floor. He winces at the sharp crack of wood against stone but Dumbledore didn’t seem to mind. “Get to the point, Professor. What fucked up your relationship?”

He almost expects a scolding, a hint of disapproval for the coarse language but Dumbledore didn’t look bothered by the swearing. He seemed almost contemplative, like he had been yanked years into the past, twisting and falling through memories in that way that was so familiar to Sirius.

“Gellert was...intense,” Dumbledore says and the way he spoke made Sirius’ heart clench. It was the same way he spoke about Remus, the love so evident in every word, the way the name sounded holy against one’s lips. “Certainly too much for others to handle. He was passionate too - he put his soul into everything that he did and when those things failed it practically killed him. I suppose that’s why he was drawn to me - we both had that streak of determination, fixation to the point of collapse. I loved him like that, oblivious to everything else.”

Sirius had an awful feeling that he knew where this conversation was going.

“And I let myself be blinded by him. I ignored all his faults, all his weakness, that vicious cruel streak and that calculating edge. I let myself be corrupted by the thought of what could be. It was only much, much later that I realized what he had done to me.”

Sirius stares at him in disbelief. “Oh,” he says, voice heavy with sarcasm. “Oh I see what you’re doing here. Let me finish the story for you. You realized who Grindelwald truely was and you left him. You became a better person, the most powerful wizard in the world and Grindelwald was consumed by his anger and his grief until finally, you destroyed him. Right?”

He refuses to drop Dumbledore’s gaze, his chest burning with anger. “Right?”

“Precisely. Although it was far less dramatic then how you describe.”

Sirius just laughs. “And now you’re going to start telling me just how similar I am to Grindelwald. The same viciousness, the same short-sightedness, the same disregard for the rules. You’ll tell me how I’m self destructive and unstable and how one day I’ll snap and drag everyone down with me. And - “ Sirius breaks off. “And Remus is like you, right? Pure and noble and he’s too good for me, I’ll never be enough for him. Well, joke’s on you. I already knew that. And unlike you I knew that right from the beginning - “

“There’s a few things wrong with that,” Dumbledore says calmly, shutting Sirius up. “Firstly, I never thought I was too good for Gellert. On the contrary, I thought I wasn’t good enough. That seems to be the trend with these kinds of relationships, self doubt on both ends.”

Sirius rolls his eyes. “Wonderful.”

“And secondly, you are both correct and incorrect with your statements. You are right that I’m using my own failed relationship as a metaphor between you and Mr Lupin. You are correct that I have assigned both of you roles, comparisons between myself and Gellert. But you are incorrect in your assignment.”

Sirius blinks. “What the fuck do you mean by that?”

“I mean,” Dumbledore says, “That you are more like myself then Gellert.”

Sirius blinks. “Okay,” he says slowly. “So this wasn’t a conversation about how I’ll turn into the next dark wizard?”

“No,” Dumbledore says. “This is a conversation about fatal flaws and the unquestionable loyalty between two people who love each other.”

The words hit him like a sack of bricks, hard and aching, making him gasp desperately for breath.

“There’s a spy in our ranks,” Dumbledore says, and Sirius thinks he feels his heart stop in his chest. “A spy who’s been leaking our secrets, our plans of attack.”

“No,” Sirius says. “It’s not me. I would never - how could you think - “

Dumbledore shakes his head. “On the contrary. I do not think the spy is you, Mr Black.”

“Then who - “ Sirius cuts himself off viciously. “No,” he whispers. “He would never.”

Dumbledore just leans forward. “I would like to know everything you have ever told Mr Lupin.”

[sometimesrosy]

I keep wondering what it is about Bellarke that’s got me right by the lady balls. I think it’s b/c they resonate with every ‘epic’ love story/ship I’ve ever known. Buttercup/Wesley (Death cannot stop true love/that CPR scene). Jack/Rose (You jump, I jump/if I’m on that list, you’re on that list). Leia/Han (Princess/Rebel dynamic). Anne/Gilbert (the LONG and COMPLICATED love story; enemies/friends/lovers/soul mates). What makes *you* love them so much? What ‘epic’ couples do they remind you of?

I agree with you about that epic love story thing. And that’s a big draw for the romantics in us. I also agree with you about the parallels with the above couples. I see all of those, particularly Leia/Han, probably because of the sci fi-action connection so it’s not just a similar relationship, but also a similar STORY.

Bellarke has a TYPE of story that is not your typical modern love story, simply because of the tropes of the modern genre and trends, and yet, it harkens back to an older romantic trope, seen in some NON-romance genre love stories. Fantasy (Princess Bride,) Action-Disaster (Titanic,) Space Opera (Star Wars,) Children’s Novel or Bildungsroman (Anne of Green Gables.)

There are a couple of other shows that Bellarke reminds me of. And I’m saying shows, even though these have a novel and a fairy tale attached, because I think the creators deliberately are making call backs to the MOVIES of these stories. First of all, there’s Tangled. Rapunzel/Eugene. We got a play by play of a shot from that in season 3 and that is a DELIBERATE allusion to a fairy tale romance. He was out for his own goals and she was imprisoned in her own idealistic world. Clarke and Rapunzel paint on the walls. The fairy lights ceremony. The hair thing. Ha! Octavia would be the horse. lol. The plot doesn’t follow Rapunzel, but I think a lot of the imagery and symbolism does.

Then there’s Pride and Prejudice. 2005 to be specific. And I actually think the plot of P&P matches the plot of Bellarke. I first saw it, I think, with Hakeldama, which seems like the first marriage proposal to me. Where she rejects him. Now, Bellamy and Clarke seem to switch roles as Darcy and Elizabeth, but the other characters also seem to fit. If Wickham is Finn, who had a relationship with Clarke/Elizabeth, then Lydia is Raven, the “ruined” sister. Social ruin for Lydia, but physical damage for Raven. Georgiana is Octavia, who Bellamy is protecting. Lxa is actually Mr Collins, who could save the Bennets but marries Charlotte. Eliza goes away with Collins though to his home where she meets the powerful Lady DeBourgh. There’s actually a lot more that fits, from hand imagery, to their separations, to a family member declaring to one of them the depth of the others feelings (Madi/Debourgh) to a couple of shots of the sun shining through an embracing couple (finale s5 AND finale s6.) Yeah, I think the writers are deliberately using P&P 2005 as a template for Bellarke over the course of all 7 seasons.  And while we’re at it, lets add Odysseus and Penelope to that deliberate allusions. I’m not as familiar with it so it’s harder to break down, but it’s also hard to ignore the DELIBERATE references to the Odyssey and the Iliad.

I really do think that romance genre stories are a certain KIND of thing and we get used to the pacing and the rules, and we expect our romances to follow those rules and then when they don’t, we get frustrated, and I think that’s part of what the frustration the fandom feels is coming from. They AREN’T following the format the romance genre stories lay out. 

But except they DO. It’s just all tangled up with the other story elements (fantasy- check. action/disaster- check. space opera-check. bildungsroman-check.) And you know what? It might be frustrating to see that delay and lack of resolution, but it’s also THRILLING! You EXPECT one thing, and receive another, and if you care to look, that other thing was set up also. So it is also just as much the story as the romance the shippers were expecting. If you refuse to accept the other elements of the story and demand only the one you wanted, then I think we get the frustration. I don’t think that’s a failure of the story, the story still works, I think it’s a failure of the audience. It’s nice to say that the writers are beholden to the audience to give them what they want... but that’s actually a load of crock. The writers are beholden to THE STORY to fulfill the narrative they’ve set up, stay true to the characters and resolve audience expectations based on canon. Neither author nor audience is king. STORY IS KING. If the author fails the story, that’s their problem. If the AUDIENCE fails the story (like comic book fans saying comic books are not supposed to be political. what comic books were they reading?) then that’s their problem.

I actually LIKE that Bellarke, as a romance, has stayed true to its story-- a long term story that has been building for 7 years and refuses to go for the cheap and easy resolution. No, The 100 is not a romance genre story, so we can’t have the expectations of that... but BELLARKE is a romantic, soulmate, epic love story! It seems like a contradiction and I think that’s where the frustrations can really explode, as it goes on telling a sci fi action adventure tragedy all the while feeding us bits and pieces of the epic love story.... which makes us EXPECT the romance genre tropes. AND I LIKE THAT. It keeps me on the hook for more, and makes some of the darker elements of the story bearable, because there’s this underlying hope and beauty of true love underneath it all.

I mean. This show is TERRIBLE in all it’s pain and suffering and horror and loss, and YET underneath it is the deeply romantic concept that even though love does not always save the day, LOVE SAVES US. It saves our souls. It makes the struggle worthwhile. It gives us something to fight for and someone to fight with. We are NOT alone.

And to me, that makes it so much more beautiful. It’s not even just an epic romance, it is a profound statement of philosophy. I really enjoy the mythic and symbolic element of this show, also, making me feel as if it is MORE than just an action show, or even an epic, slow burn romance, but that the struggles and victories of Bellarke are actually attempting to say something bigger about the nature of humanity, through the genres of the story.

[ezrisdax-archive]

Thoughts on a fun way to make a Star Trek/Mass Effect crossover? Or characters interactions cross-series?

like a full crossover? hmmm, certainly it’d be a parallel worlds type situation where I feel in Trek world the Leviathans didn’t evolve and create the Reapers and thus life wasn’t constantly wiped out and that’s why there’s more of an alien populace in the galaxy to explain the stark differences. And then time travel would get involved too since ME takes place before Trek.

So depending on which Trek you’re gonna go with (which for me I can pick any) there’s some wormhole shenanigans going on only what they call wormholes are the dark energy spots that Reapers use in ME time. The crew is investigating them when they go through it and end up in ME time (or if you want the ship accidentally goes through a la Voyager crossing over quadrants).

At first the crew is clearly trying to not get involved but can’t resist the chance to explore and learn the differences and when they realize this isn’t their actual past and can interact with the place more, which brings them into contact with the Normandy which has been sent to investigate the strange readings so we get to crew interactions of (which I’ll put under a cut cause it got long):

Spock and/or Tuvok, and Liara discussing the Vulcan Mind Meld versus the Asari meld and coming to the conclusion that they might have a genetic link back

Tali and B’Elanna having a field day comparing notes (and complaining) on what it’s like keeping a ship together when you don’t have all the parts you really need since Tali used to do that with the Quarian ships and B’Elanna does that now

Kirk and Shepard discussing choices made that shape worlds for better or worse despite the best of intentions and geeking out over model ships. You can’t tell me that doesn’t happen.

Bashir and Mordin are the only people able to understand each other in their speed talking and excitedly sharing notes about different aliens.

Worf and Wrex and Grunt immediately start a fight (bonus points for Wrex insulting Worf for sounding like Uvenk whom Dorn voices)

Seven and Legion (in a world where he lives, what do you mean he dies) discussing what it’s like going from a hive mind to being individuals and coming to find yourself and who you are as a person, like Legion clearly was more involved in finding this aspect for his people as opposed to Seven who had it forced on her but they share the desire now to learn and become an individual and protect those they care about

Janeway and Shepard blow something up by accident while trying to investigate something because of course they do

Samara and Deanna sitting down and just discussing life because I feel like these two would be friends and smirking at their friends antics and secretly betting on who’s gonna get into what danger

I actually have a lot of thoughts about paragon!Shepard and Michael being similar characters in the sense of having this burden of the galaxy placed on them and speaking out against things that people refuse to see except for the crew they’re apart of and trying to warn people of a war and do their best to prevent it and bring people together

Tilly and Tali and Gabby together would be a delight I feel, just talking excitedly about everything under the sun. including the sun.

Sulu and Joker arguing who's a better pilot and Sulu being fascinated how Mass Effect fields work when it comes to piloting and Joker proudly explaining it

Sisko tries to adopt Grunt from Shepard (no I’m mostly kidding, I think that Sisko and Shep have a great deal of respect for each other in caring for the crew and having in placed in an almost god like reverence in certain situations and the struggles with that. and then also Sisko brings back baseball to the Mass Effect world. Shepard absolutely hates that)

I figure the EMH would actually be most interested in biotics and the science of that and writing down to make a paper to publish as the first hologram to do so.

Likewise EDI is fascinated with hologram technology that Trek’s have and if the ships have ever developed sentience in any way and if she can incorporate some of that technology into the Normandy to further her own development

I think Kira gets along with Wrex and is angry at Salarians on his behalf once she hears what was done to the Krogan because the genocide of a species hits hard with her

Tilly and Samantha are even worse than Bashir and Mordin at talking so fast no one gets it but them and they very much do enjoy talking to each other

Tom and Steve have shuttle races until they’re ordered back by their bosses because really guys

Geordi has a lot of talks with EDI, some about his friendship with Data and the human side of interacting with a being that’s trying to learn about humanity themselves but most about the ship and the benefits of integration with it that allow you to be aware of everything that’s happening on it

also Data and EDI tell the worst jokes and everyone regrets this

Picard and Thane drink tea together and discuss philosophies and Thane talks about his species old artifacts and how they were lost to his culture and Picard just listens with interest and some ideas on how you could maybe get those back

Jadzia and Jack get along surprisingly well, they have a holodeck fight at one point and Jadzia takes tricorder readings of biotics and then they go out drinking together

on the flip side Ezri and Miranda get along in terms of being forced to live up to unreasonable family expectations (all though far less harsh in Ezri’s case) and having to carve out your own identity and also like...weirdly everyone hating you for no other reason than your character exists

Bev gets into playing poker with Kaidan and Steve and now they’re all trying to beat each other constantly at it

Saru and Liara get along the easiest at first and discuss the wild things their crews get up to and how they eventually just started to go along with the madness

Kasumi keeps trying to steal from Tuvok but can’t manage it and thinks it’s the best challenge she’s had in years. Tuvok just wants to talk to Thane and get back to the Delta Quadrant already captain.

Harry and Jacob get to talking about having to prove themselves and always being looked over and the troubles of trying to get your own command

Bones hates all of this, Kirk what the hell have you done now. That said he and Zaeed get to drinking and talking about the bullshit that comes from space travel. All though Zaeed’s is more about how annoying it is to try to kill someone in it. Bones thinks he’s just over exaggerating and not a mercenary at first.

James keeps showing off for literally everyone and turning things into a competition with whoever he can when it comes to physical activities, he’s still sulking that Data beat him until he finds out that Data is an android and then calls foul on it.

Odo and Zaeed grumble about everything together

B’Elanna and Ashley have a book club that they don’t tell anyone about and share romance novels and poetry while complaining about how everyone doesn’t expect it from them and that’s part of why they don’t tell people those parts of themselves

Uhura gets the translators turned off on the Normandy to listen to everyone’s dialect and language and is quick to pick up on it, she’s especially good with Drell and enjoys conversing with Thane in it

Liara is absolutely freaked out that Deanna sounds like her mother and Deanna is absolutely using this to troll her whenever she can because it amuses her

Grunt and Chekov get into arguments about history of all things despite that people keep pointing out that they’re from alternate worlds and therefore it’s different anyway

Chakwas and Chakotay sit down to talk about what it’s like sorta taking care of the crew and just ridiculous stories of things they’ve put with

Riker at one point talks to Miranda about clones and dealing with someone who is the same genetically as you but isn’t you and do you have a relationship with them or leave them be (they don’t come up with an answer really)

Mordin gets banned from taking samples of other aliens

Nog and Gabby talk one point about being sorta new to the experiences of war and frontline suddenly and the horrors that come with it and share their experiences of being trapped by the Reapers vs being in a Jem’Hadar fight and coming back from that

Guinan doesn’t care much for Javik but they do have one good discussion about what it’s like being one of the last of your species and seeing so many of them die due to a machine race (and worse, converted to serve that race) that you just can’t fight back against no matter how much you try (or that’s what they thought at the time)

Samantha and Spock and Kirk and/or Airiam have strategy game nights and really get into it and Spock will typically leave while Sam and Kirk are still geeking out over it until the morning

Quark is banned from the Normandy point blank

Worf tries to get everyone to appreciate Klingon opera, the only one he manages to get into it are Grunt and Legion

Scotty is especially fascinated with the drive core of the Normandy and talks to Adams about it constantly

Chakotay and James having a boxing match at one point

Jake interviews like everyone and is thinking about turning this experience into a novel and enjoys listening to everyone’s stories

O’Brien and Garrus get caught up in calibrations, can you come back later

okay this literally is getting too long already but I could keep going. I think then there’s a group discussion about the Borgs vs the Reapers and the troubles everyone faces in those fights and a lot of back and forth about things that have worked for one crew that may help someone else out (like the Changeling cure to maybe help the Genophage cure or vice versa)