#people make griffith easier for me to understand in fics as well

[13eyond13]

Something I think fiction does sometimes is make sex represent the end goal for relationships so often that if two characters sleep together it causes readers to automatically see them as truly in love / that it would solve all problems for the pair to be together forever, even when that isn't necessarily what the narrative is trying to say / depict otherwise.

I am thinking about this because of Guts and Casca... to me they sleep together initially almost as an act of friendship? A way of experimenting with each other and learning about sex, perhaps of distracting themselves from the person they're both more actually into, and of course also because they do care about each other and maybe are attracted to one another on some level, and want to see what it would be like to try to get even closer together. But I think the story also makes it pretty clear that Guts is more emotionally invested in his relationship with Griffith than with Casca, in what you might call a narratively romantic sense... and Casca is shown sort of seeing the futility of her feelings for Griffith and eventually growing apart from him that way pre-Eclipse, even though she still cares for him the most out of everyone she knows (though I don't think he ever feels nearly the same way about her). So getting with Griffith isn't end game for Casca (and she herself eventually realizes that), but I also don't read Casca as a character for whom getting with Guts is the end game character arc-wise, either. I'm not sure Miura even had a concrete end-game character arc in mind for her, to be honest. I feel as though unfortunately she was written mostly as something to be used between Griffith and Guts rather than to end up having her own fully realized narrative journey in the same way that Guts (and maybe also Griffith) will. I want to see her and Guts as friends and at peace more than I want to see them live happily ever after together as a couple, because I feel like that's actually more how they really feel for one another than anything else. Granted, there's a bit of an interesting ironic twist in the story that happens during the Eclipse, where Griffith (unintentionally?) drives Guts and Casca closer together than I think they might have been otherwise with the trauma that he causes them both (even though I think their relationship is probably something he'd be jealous of and read as more romantic than it actually might be and wish to destroy, simply due to his own insecurities and his own possessive feelings for Guts). But I also didn't really read Guts' reactions in the Eclipse scene as Guts being jealous and possessive over Casca in a sexual / romantic sense - I read it more as him feeling empathy for her pain and desire to protect her from harm / from the darker side of Griffith he maybe knew about a bit better than anybody else. I DO care about Guts and Casca's relationship a lot, and find it one of the most emotionally compelling things in the story. But I don't think shipping them together for a happily ever after is really what I'd want for them, nor something that the narrative was actually trying to work towards / suggest to be the best ending for anybody involved? I don't know if I think shipping Guts and Griffith necessarily is either, particularly because of how irredeemably awful Griffith behaved during the Eclipse... but I DO think the story intentionally hinges more around the Griffguts relationship and their emotional journeys / character developments than it does about any other pair/relationship in the series, and that both of them have intense unresolved feelings for each other that come off much more suggestive and stronger than ones of just simply wanting to be friends. And I think all of these characters are pretty explicitly aware of that themselves even in the story as well.

Haha I don't even know what I'm trying to even say here except to work out some of my own thoughts about the main 3 that I care about, I suppose!

[bthump]

Hey, what do you think would have happened had Guts and Griffith realized they were actually into each other and had acted upon that before things went to hell? How do you imagine things could have unfolded? If for example, guts had said "I was thinking about leaving bc I thought that was how you'd see me as your equal" and Griffith had been "I already see you that way, in fact you're super important" (you know, communication lol).

If they realized they were into each other and acted on it they would’ve lived happily ever after. Guts would’ve stayed, Griffith would’ve continued prioritizing him over his dream, maybe not in a way that destroys his dream but certainly in ways that make Guts feel secure and loved, Guts’ love and admiration of Griffith, finally expressed, and his steadfastness at his side would’ve done wonders to ease Griffith’s self-loathing, like, the happily ever after is built into the characters and the story, if only they hadn’t fucked it up.

imo the hard question is how the fuck do they realize it and act on it lol. That’s the part where I’m like, ok they should’ve talked it out and realized they were basically living a mutually requited pining fanfic cliche, buuuuuut man these idiots are not emotionally equipped to have that conversation.

I really can’t imagine anything as straightforward as Guts explaining why he wanted to leave, and Griffith reassuring him that he’s wrong. Guts has a good reason not to tell Griffith why he’s leaving, which is that it undermines the reason he wants to leave at all lol, his motivation is a giant contradiction:

I need to find and pursue my own reason for living because I heard Griffith say that’s what people should do. I need to find my own dream and separate myself from Griffith so Griffith will pay attention to me.

I feel like Guts thinks explaining this to Griffith would only make Griffith look down on him extra hard, and probably pity him on top of that lol.

For Griffith’s part I don’t think he can actually give Guts the reassurance Guts needs, at least not easily, not without some serious soul searching. I think he believed everything he said to Charlotte, and to try to reconcile that belief with his contradictory feelings for Guts after being put on the spot and asked about it would… well it wouldn’t be easy for him lol. Getting the truth out of him would be like pulling teeth, and Guts is so inclined to accept that Griffith doesn’t care about him that he wouldn’t try very hard. Griffith would have to pull his own teeth out to keep Guts, and I think he would, but man it would be hard.

I mean, I think they could potentially have that conversation, but yeah it would be painful, and would involve Guts having to admit some awkward things and Griffith having to accept his own difficult and painful emotions. And this is just the admitting they care about each other conversation, discussing mutual attraction would be a whole layer of difficult on top of that. Though to be fair I think if they went about it backwards, yk like started by making out in an impulsive moment and then talked afterwards, it might be easier lol. It would at least be a good catalyst for discussion.

It would also be easier to like, cheat and have Casca or Judeau or Corkus reveal some of what Guts said to Griffith lol, and get the ball rolling that way. Give Griffith some time to soul search and think of what to say before he confronts Guts.

(or yk roll with the headcanon I was just going on about w/ Griffith actually being aware of his feelings and therefore able to say/do something once he understands that Guts thinks he looks down on him and wants to leave to get closer to him. but that’s more for yk, a fic concept or whatever, I don’t think that’s really how Griffith understands his feelings in canon.)

And all that said I think this fic has a pretty believable conversation between them on the subject, so it’s worth checking out for another answer. It’s great because they talk around each other for a long time before finally hitting on some real truths.

[13eyond13]

love it when a character that's hard to read intuitively for you has like a dedicated fandom interpreter who can just glance at their blank face in a panel and then give you a 3k word essay on their innermost thoughts & desires & fears and neatly tie it back into the themes & whatnot as if it's the most obvious thing in the world