#predictability is good

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

The Miraculous fandom has some of the most creative people I know in it. I mean this, positive sense.

However that same talent becomes a problem when people cannot distinguish between a narrative beat and their own post-hoc justification.

The second is useful now and again when any sort of media misses a beat or takes a leap. ML fans carry the narrative on their backs.

It's telling that you have so many fanworks out there that are equally or more valid readings of the canon when they were published that have been completely obliterated by future development.

I'm not talking the wild takes. I'm not talking ML suddenly turning shonen, or coffee shop AU. I'm not even talking 'Adrien gets equal screen time.' Just 'with what we know, what comes next?' type fanfiction.

It's like canon is deliberately trying to dodge anything remotely predictable... but narrative beats are predictable for a reason. They work. They're good storytelling. A twist can be good storytelling, but only if it is better in every way then the not-twist.

You combine the shock-at-all-costs mentality with ML fandoms devotion and creativity and you get leaps of logic that would make a crypto seller blush. It ends up going downright unhealthy places at times.

I know their hearts are in the right place. I know they just care about the show they've sunk time and self into, but there are times you have to step back.

It doesn't mean you have to give up or turn away from the media. You just need to be willing to admit 'This episode/throughline/season/beat sucked'.

Then you hope it gets better.

Not doing this now and then is engaging in cult behavior.

(Post that spawned this ask)

I fully agree. People liking "bad" media doesn't bother me. What gets under my skin is people defending bad media. I'm in a book club and we all own that we like books that are objectively bad. We don't defend them as good, we just like the good parts enough to drown out the bad stuff. That's normal and fine. You don't have to limit yourself to perfect and pure art if such a thing even exists. I can name flaws in most of the things I like, I just think the good far outweighs the bad.

Miraculous is not some deep and complicated show that requires you to watch every episode. The writers have flat out said it is supposed to make sense even if you miss seemingly vital episodes. This means that trying to go the deep and nuanced route to explain the flaws doesn't work. This is a show for young children. It is supposed to be easy to follow. If it's not, then it has failed at its job! Little kids have no expectations to subvert. Shows like Miraculous are supposed to teach them how stories work so they can go on and watch more complex stuff when they're older. (For us adults, shows like Miraculous are supposed to be cute escapism that lets us feel like kids again.) If no one can possibly predict where a story is going next at a high level, then it's probably a bad story.

To be clear, I don't mean that every plot beat should be obvious. It's just that the longer a story goes, the more obvious things should feel as all the little elements of the story build and come together. This allows the audience to get excited about what's going to happen next and keeps them engaged. Stories where literally anything can happen no matter how little sense it makes aren't fun because you can't get invested in anything. I'll take a predictable ending over an impossible one any day.

A perfect example is the season three final. That final was all about Gabriel winning because he knew Chloe's identity. This is spelled out in the episode and the episode setup.

Miraculer set up:

Gabriel: Chloé Bourgeois must become Queen Bee again! Nathalie: Are you still considering making her an ally? I'm afraid Ladybug has grown reluctant to giving Chloé the Bee Miraculous. She's being very careful. Gabriel: Then I will get Chloé to force Ladybug to give it to her. All I need is for her to lose all hope in Ladybug. To become angry enough so I can akumatize her. (smirks evilly)

Ladybug: I'm sorry, Chloé. I should've told you this a long time ago. I might never be able to let you be Queen Bee again. Queen Bee: What? But I did everything you asked me to. Ladybug: I know. But this is for your own safety. It's too dangerous for you and your loved ones because Hawk Moth knows that you're Queen Bee.

Final pay off:

Hawk Moth: Try it and see for yourself. You're Ladybug's greatest fan. You've helped her, you've trusted her. And what has she done for you in return? Chloé: (gets angry) Nothing! She couldn't care less about me! I'm done with her. She's irrelevant, utterly irrelevant! (reaches out to grap the Miraculous, stops) I want you to de-akumatize has my parents first! Hawk Moth: Whatever you say, my queen. (Chloé takes the comb and puts it in her hair, releasing Pollen)

Since the final also includes every other temp hero being outed this should mean that season four will go on to have Ladybug and Chat Noir starting from scratch, but is that what happens?

Nope! The mass identity reveal means nothing and everything is fine to keep going as is. Chloé's identity reveal being a problem was a one-off fluke we don't need to think about.

There is no justification for that. You can decide that you're willing to let the flaw slide and keep watching, but there is no way to make this a good choice for the story. It was the start of the secret identities holding less and less weight to the point where a lot of people no longer care about the love square reveal because it's been so incredibly cheapened. Marinette keeping her identity from Chat Noir no longer makes sense when it was once pretty reasonable.

[no-paperwork]

6.000 years later he is still amazed at the things his angel does

[lena-luthor]

I am The Traveler. I am the Queen of Cups.

[diavalkitty]

[becasbelt]

caitlyn: sorry to say, you've grown a bit predictable

vi: *kisses her with SO much tongue*

caitlyn:

[bacchuschucklefuck]

a totem pole of hopeful idiots

[yuutaguro]

dedicating all my brain cells to think about this

[bwlkins]

There are two types of people in GO fandom waiting for S3: 

[ladyelainehilfur]

holding up a grown man and a teenager your own weight with one arm each?? okay miss girl, I see those pull ups coming into clutch

[poorly-drawn-mdzs]

...Turns out gay sex actually was the solution.

(This is basically a redraw, come read the real deal over at Tiger Tiger)

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

Since you’ve talked about the secret between Adrien and Mari and how Adrien has no agency, back when the s5 bible leaked, there was a part where it said that „Adrien will never find out about his father being Hawkmoth“ or something like that.

Do you think the writers will actually stick with that rule? Because I just can‘t see how this is supposed to be narratively satisfying…

I have no idea and that's not a compliment. It's a condemnation. Adrien should absolutely find out about his father. The story isn't satisfying if he doesn't. But Miraculous doesn't seem to care about being satisfying. It cares about being shocking and that's a terrible thing. To explain why, let's talk about the topic of predictability in narratives and why it's generally a good thing.

We'll start with a quote from a famous George R.R. Martin interview where he perfectly explains why you want your stories to make logical sense with the final line of the quote being the most important part:

Before the Internet, one reader could guess the ending you wanna do for your novel, but the other 10.000 wouldn’t know anything and they would be surprised. However, now, those 10.000 people use the Internet and read the right theories. They say: “Oh God, the butler did it!”, to use an example of a mystery novel. Then, you think: “I have to change the ending! The maiden would be the criminal!” To my mind that way is a disaster because if you are doing well you work, the books are full of clues that point to the butler doing it and help you to figure up the butler did it, but if you change the ending to point the maiden, the clues make no sense anymore; they are wrong or are lies, and I am not a liar.

This is a writing rule that I believe in my soul, but that the Miraculous writers don't seem to care about. Miraculous will introduce things that should be important to the story, but they end up meaning nothing.

A great - and relevant - example of this is the Chat Blanc stuff. Chat Blanc comes near the end of season three, early season four sees Marinette have a nightmare about Chat Blanc, and late season four is all about Chat Noir feeling left out as Marinette trusts Alya over him. Many viewers looked at these story beats and went, "Oh, okay, so Chat Blanc is causing Marinette to push Chat Noir away. Got it." because it honestly was the only thing that made any sense.

But that's not what was going on. The official word is that Marinette was just stressed over her new role as the guardian even though nothing in the text really explains why that would strain her relationship with Chat Noir. It actively improves her relationship with Alya! Why wouldn't it do the same with her long-term partner? As we've discussed several times, he was fine with the status quo at the start of the season and didn't even ask for more responsibility until Kuro Neko so it's not like he was doing anything to stress her out until he randomly quit on her.

This begs the question: if Chat Blanc isn't haunting Marinette and Chat Noir isn't stressing her, then why doesn't she share things with Chat Noir? Why go with Alya when Alya's identity was revealed to the villain requiring Alya to go into "hiding" as Rena Furtive? There's really nothing in the text to answer those incredibly important questions. Question that are only incredibly important because the writers actively chose to have multiple episodes dedicated to Chat Noir feeling left out. Why that happened really isn't clear so there's also no clear resolution. What needs to change? No clue! Did that thing change? Once again, no clue! It's all set up with no pay off!

Or, at least, we don't get the kind of pay off you'd expect to see. Aka the big dramatic moment where Ladybug finally confesses what happened to her. Instead, Chat Blanc's big pay off is Adrien missing the season five fight because he just magically knows that Chat Blanc happened:

During the scene that leads to Adrien wearing the Alliance ring after being reticent to it, [the writers] say that they had a conflict when writing it as they had to find a way for Adrien to not become his superhero self, cataclysm the walls and go help his lady in Paris. The end result is that Adrien is reminded of the devastating effect of his power by the nightmare and would therefore do anything to avoid hurting people, and so he wears the ring. Mélanie says that he "could become Chat Blanc" and the others add that even though he does not remember and has never lived it, Chat Blanc still has an influence on his actions.

So Chat Blanc doesn't matter to the person who actually met him, but it does matter to the person who was Chat Blanc an alternate timeline even though this show has never once showed another akuma victim to be haunted by their akumatization. Does that make any sense? No, it's frustrating and confusing, but it does tell us the way these writers think and that insight doesn't bode well for Adrien learning the truth about his father. It's not enough for me to say with certainty that it will never happen, but I would not assume that it will happen. The show has an active pattern of avoiding these kinds of payoffs:

Example 1: Multiple Lila appearances had her claiming to be Ladybug's BFF and she was even interviewed for the Ladyblog based on this lie, but as soon as Alya learns Ladybug's identity, the show conveniently forgets about this ongoing lie because then Alya would be against Lila and the writers didn't want that.

Example 2: Marinette gave Alya the Fox without telling Chat Noir that they had a new full-time teammate, but Chat Noir never learns about this development. The most he gets is that Ladybug revealed her identity to someone, which is nowhere near as important as the Rena thing in terms of the ongoing fight against Paris' resident supervillain. The fact that Rena Rouge is now Rena Furtive is literally never revealed to him. He learns that she's active in the final fight, but the name change and her status are forever a secret. Alya being Rena Furtive also leads to nothing useful for the heroes. You could remove that from season four and it would play almost exactly the same same for a few minor tweaks.

Example 3: Luka learns Ladybug and Chat Noir's identities in Wishmaker, but this reveal is just used as an excuse to write Luka off the show in season five. The episode that gets him written off shows Monarch realizing that Luka knows the identities because of some mental connection that happens during akumatization. This is damning because Kagami was akumatized twice in season five (Perfection and Protection) and we later learn that Kagami learned Marinette's secret identity during Perfection, the first of the two episodes. In fact, Kagami learned the secret mere minutes before getting akumatized and she was akumatized because Marinette wasn't talking to her so Marinette being Ladybug should have been on her mind and yet Monarch didn't get so much as a hint of any of this!!!!!

That's not even getting into the issue of the fact that nothing in Perfection so much as hints that Kagami knows even though the episode is all about her relationship with Marinette or the issue of Marinette keeping her secret identity safe even though she was almost akumatized the freaking times! SOMEONE PLEASE MAKE IT MAKE SENSE!!! WHY IS IT WRITTEN LIKE THIS??? How is anyone supposed to follow such shitty lore? The audience can't text appropriately if they don't know what the stakes are.

So, yeah, I'd put a small amount of money on Adrien never learning because that would be way too satisfying and Miraculous hates being satisfying or logical. The times we do get big reveals are generally terrible like with freaking Andre the Ice Cream Man being the one to tell Adrien about Marinette's crush or Lila being outed because of a plan Sabrina and Marinette made up off screen or Adrien finding out about Chat Blanc because magic. Watch Andre the Ice Cream Man be the one to tell Adrien about his dad for some reason. Nothing would surprise me at this point.

[pine-rhyme]

I think it would be funny in Alecto, if we spend more time on the Ninth, for the great aunts to, very affectedly, inform Harrow of her parents' passing during their silent practice to which Harrow barelly even manages to act either surprised or mournful (while Kiriona has a fit of laughter nearby).

"And that makes you, Reverend Daughter Harrowhark Nonagesimus, our 311th Reverend Mother."

Freshly out of Hell and still dazed by whatever happend post tomb opening, Reverend Mother Harrowhark Nonagesimus, can urge no other reaction out of her but a slightly out of breath, shamefully informal "Ok."

Cue a pleathoa of mom jokes that everybody seems to get into.

"Reverend- forgive me Harrowhark, I cannot in good faith look at your face and call you-"

"Then please don't. Thank you, Paul."

"Oh, mother!" ejaculates Ianthe at her every movement.

"Oh, sorry mommy", Kiriona is already begging for it.

Worst things worst she is still, functionally, the last person ever born on the Ninth.

[hagstoned]

He is beauty

He is grace

And they’re gonna punch The Metatron in his face

[diavalkitty]

[zhukzucraft]

Everyone: Open Messenger

docm77: To whoever my soulmate is: You are about to take about 5 hearts of damage. docm77: Return to spawn. docm77: We need to talk.

=> Soulmate: Take ~ 5 hearts of damage

Start Over -- Go Back

[boltmoonvic]

BFDIA 18 SPOILERS

It's your fault for believing that I'm someone worth loving.