#pro acolyte

[underwaterspiderbird]

there’s no such thing as “light” or “dark” sides of the force, there never was. its all just different expressions & experiences of the same energy field. “falling to the dark side” is but a religious scare tactic akin to “you’re good and are going to heaven if you believe what we believe but if you don’t you’re gonna burn in hell for all eternity”, no amount of palpatine’s generation of fuckery, the psychos within the sith that could also be found within any group of ppl, or jedi worship will ever convince me otherwise.

suck it bitches

[faerromagnetic]

I honestly do not get why the majority opinion on here seems to be that The Acolyte is an Anti-Jedi Hit Piece. A Sith Propagands Show. The Acolyte is to The Jedi as Das Kapital is to Capitalism.

Like, you do know the person speaking that line is a villain right? You do know that High Republic has a history of bad guys framing the Jedi and the Republic as Fascists and Dictators right?

Why is this any different? Why are y'all acting like this is an HBomberguy call out and take down piece over the Jedi?

The saddest part is, this will never be seen by literally anyone. The only people talking about this show is just posting to rant about how much Disney hates the Jedi. Goddamn.

[azurecanary]

Hilarious when Star Wars fans go "Can't believe Acolyte made lightsabers into mood rings 😤"

My guy, i hate to tell you that that was actually made canon by Dave Filoni almost a decade ago (that said, the Acolyte fandom seems to ignore the technicalities of it in favour of girlbossifying cold blooded murder)

[underwaterspiderbird]

same thing with acolyte. they only hate it because its the same people who they told were going to hell for not agreeing with them making a show about how so called “good guys” treat anyone who does not agree with them. that’s it. that’s literally it.

Just an fyi to my followers who don't follow my Twitter & may not be on the up & up about me:

I work on Helluva Boss. I love both it & Hazbin Hotel, and don't believe the shit people constantly sling at Vivziepop.

Anything that was true, were either things from 10+ years ago, apologized for, taken out of context, or exaggerated to hell.

Edit: (nevermind, i didnt know this guy's history. my bad!) I highly recommend checking out Ayy Lmao's videos on YT regarding her controversies, as they're a neutral party & openly state when they believe Vivzie is in the wrong.

I know a lot of people on here openly hate Vivzie. So if you'd rather not follow me, I get it. But I highly recommend educating yourself to the fullest extent, instead of just believing randos who hate Vivzie & her work just for the sake of hating her.

[short-wooloo]

"None of the Jedi recognize that darkness exists in them"

Incorrect, recognizing one's own darkness and rejecting that darkness is a basic and fundamental aspect of Jedi teachings

[underwaterspiderbird]

just a reminder, this is what these anti woke/jedi apologist mfs who throw whole fits calling ppl evil for not agreeing with their self-proclaimed “good guys” be looking like 9 times out of 10. do with that what you will.

[underwaterspiderbird]

thats not what theyre saying, theyre saying the jedi are not the righteous guardians of justice cultures hail them as, nor are the imperialist puritan views they hold true to the force, theyre like the evangelical biohazards who cant handle different ppl existing, & this show puts a light on their hypocrisy & how they end up using such platitudes like light, justice and order as a curtain to cover up & justify any ugly deeds they commit in the name of keeping their image intact.

not saying the sith arent flawed as a group too, but youre reaching for angles that arent even real or relevant to the story here. and to immediately jump to the kkk/nazi comparison whenever there’s something sith related or jedi critical in any way is just so ignorant of simple nuance its insulting. come on man

"It's not about good or bad, it's about power and who is ALLOWED to use it."

This idea that somehow there is no difference between using power for good and bad or that it's a negative thing to wield power in the name of good is an absolutely absurd and childish point of view.

The Sith are not a group of oppressed rebels - they are a group of Authoritarians who's very creed says "Peace is a Lie". The idea that they deserve to have the same power as a group of people who dedicated their lives to serving others is an insane take on the story.

By that logic the KKK or the Nazis deserve/deserved to hold the same status and power as groups like the UN.

And I just can't wrap my head around this philosophy.

[chissjedi]

Having an extremely beloved canonical AroAce character accused of suppressing important emotions is EXTREMELY BAD.

[antianakin]

It seems like the height of arrogance to look at a story like Star Wars with some of the most blatantly obvious and evil villains in the history of sci-fi/fantasy and when asked "What went wrong to cause the situation we see in the main story" the answer isn't "the villains were working for years to undermine the heroes from the shadows piece by piece until they were able to topple everything and murder everyone" but, somehow, "the heroes were actually the REAL villains all along because they have a religion they follow and don't immediately believe everything they're told point blank."

[kcrabb88]

It's truly wild to me how many people out there don't understand that the Star Wars prequels are a tragedy or how tragedies work.

Posts like "these are the Jedi failed movies" truly just make me shake my head. They're actually the "fascism wears a smile until it strikes you down and then it's too late" movies. They're the "the senate became corrupt and clapped in the face of genocide" movies. They're the "make people scared enough of war until they accept authoritarianism" movies. They're the "fear and possessiveness will tear you up on the inside" movies. The Jedi were the heroes of lore, people loved and looked up to them, looked to them for safety, and then too much got put on their shoulders on purpose by Palpatine, and also by a senate that didn't want to act (not you Padme and Bail and Mon, you're perfect). They were drafted and used and scapegoated, which is, you know, a tenet of the vast majority of authoritarian governments (Hitler and Stalin, for instance, might be on different ends of the political spectrum, but they sure both did scapegoat specific groups and commit mass murder, just differently).

When some people say "these movies are about the fall of the Jedi" what they mean is "the Jedi failed" but that's not what "the fall of the Jedi means." It means they were wiped the fuck OUT. Like, Jesus, in Rogue One Tarkin is talking about burning out the final MEMORY of the Jedi by blowing up the holy city in Jedha. Palpatine had to get rid of the Jedi because to get rid of the Jedi was to get rid of the final people standing in his way after he had already worn them out. His intention was not only to kill them, but to alter the galaxy's entire perception of them. To rip away hope. People are always looking for the Jedi to be Bad or nitpick their mistakes (because while other people are allowed to make mistakes, the Jedi never are). Palpatine made himself look like a benevolent grandpa who would keep everyone safe. And that, more than anything, is what gave him SO much power. He stole the narrative.

It's just like. Of course WE know what was going to happen! We know from watching the OT that the PT can only end in tragedy. But the characters don't know that! They don't have all the info! That's how a tragic story structure works. We see it coming and they can't.

Anyway. The Jedi are laser-sword wielding monks with psychic powers who just wanted to do what they could to help. The world would be better if more folks remembered that.

[underwaterspiderbird]

i disagree wholeheartedly. rest in piss to sol, jecki, yord, and every other pearl-clutching narcissist jedi out there. its not a genocide when it's a system of evangelical psychopaths who point unnatural at anything they don't understand. sure palpatine was an absolute nutcase and who wiped his ass with the legacy of the actually sensible sith & maligned the sith to the surface galaxy, but that doesn't erase the truth of the matter that the jedi, as a system, are an evangelical cult who starve for systemic supremacy, rip children away from their families under the illusion of choice (see anyone that the jedi want who tell them no if u dont believe me), tell them the very things that make them who they are are bad and wrong, "unnatural and corrupting", then they throw them away like trash when their worldview & view of the force doesn't align with theirs. just like the catholics.

the jedi had it fucking coming. i don't care about the younglings or jedha or palpatine's empire, that dude's actions are his own. from an indigenous sith who has never agreed with the jedi, never thought they were the good guys they said they are, and always saw all of the evangelical evil of the world in the jedi, fuck the jedi. even the younglings. they were so brainwashed & disconnected from existence at that point that they might as well have been considered dead before Anakin skewered them & clones swiss-cheesed them. i'm not sorry, fuck the jedi. rest in piss.

I think one of the things I've found most frustrating about sections of Star Wars fandom since being more active in it (rather than just being a Star Wars appreciator) is that some folks are constantly looking for a reason that the Jedi "caused" or worse "deserved" what was coming to them with Order 66. It's hard and horrible to watch the Jedi get slaughtered in Revenge of the Sith, so people search for a reason that it was, in some sense, justified. But that's not what genocide is. No group can "bring a genocide on themselves." It doesn't matter WHAT mistakes they may make. The whole point of the Clone Wars all the way down to destroying Jedha City in Rogue One was to wipe out not only the Jedi themselves, but the memory of them, so that the empire can fully take root.

And this is why the end of the Acolyte finale felt so so so bad to me. It was meant to be, or so I believed, a show about how the Sith were getting closer to their goal of getting rid of the Jedi as we close in on the century before The Phantom Menace. I sat there, I waited for the narrative intention to set in, and that narrative intention surprised me by saying "ah yes, well, some Jedi made mistakes and it was fine for one to be murdered HORRIBLY as a result, and the subsequent cover up of all of it is just the Jedi wanting to avoid senate knowledge of what really happened because the Jedi are too powerful." It's like, nevermind that the SENATE is the power here, and the Jedi long-ago agreed to help them out but are being shouldered with more and more and more and they may have the Force but they are still only people (which the High Republic books show REALLY well). It's like, nevermind that Star Wars is about redemption and always trying to be a better person and learning from our mistakes! It wasn't a situation, when Osha kills Sol in a nasty and cruel way, where you see a person going corrupt and know the narrative behind it is like "oh shit, this is a bad turn for them!" It felt like the narrative was saying she was justified (at least to me) and that's just. Sad? Bleak? The end of the finale felt to me like "hey, some Jedi made some mistakes while trying their best once, and that's why these Sith get to do whatever and that's why the Jedi walked right into their own demise."

When the scene with the senator happened, I thought, oh, interesting, we're going to see the prejudice against Force-sensitives here that leads to the senate clapping in the face of genocide. That leads to the safehouse in Kenobi where we see Force-sensitives carving messages of hope into the wall while they're being hunted down and killed. But that's ... not what happened. In the end, it felt like the narrative said, "yep that guy is right, the Jedi are a power-grabbing cult." It just felt bad, man. I thought this was going to be a story about the lineage leading up to Plagueis and Palpatine and I thought, interesting, I'd love to see that, but it just ended up being this messy thing with clunky writing and a bunch of loose ends that teased me with Jedi characters and then said "eh, these guys deserved it."

We got to see a kyber crystal bleeding for the first time in live action, and I can't even be excited about it! Did we ever really find out how Osha and Mae were created and what weird stuff the witches were up to? Nope! Just woah disappointing as far as even learning new stuff about how the dark side corrupts the Force, and that was one thing I was interested in as the show started to go downhill for me in later episodes.

(RIP Sol, Jecki, and Yord. You deserved better than that, and Vernestra, so did you)

[jaydude1992]

Currently recalling someone who claimed that part of the backlash for The Acolyte came from Jedi stans angry that the Jedi weren't depicted as being flawless and perfect. I don't know the extent to which I can speak for anyone else, but I like to think we probably wouldn't be complaining as much if;

Headland didn't act like she was writing the show in accordance with Lucas's original intentions, only to make up flaws for the Jedi that never existed in the stuff he was involved with (seriously, the Jedi of Lucas's works are perfectly allowed to have emotions and feelings, and they DEFINITELY don't persecute other groups of Force-users just for existing).

We hadn't already endured decades of "jedi-critical"/"anti jedi" works by people whose criticisms of the Jedi come largely from them misinterpreting and/or deviating from Lucas's narrative.

The Sequel Trilogy hadn't denied us a Jedi Order rebuilt by Luke for the apparent sake of trying to replicate New Hope.

Personally, I say that by all means, give us Jedi that have flaws and aren't perfect. No-one enters the Jedi Order with the experience and wisdom necessary to be a Jedi Master, after all. But if you're going to claim your work to be a natural extension of Lucas's stuff - as opposed to a deviation from it - those flaws and imperfections have to be consistent with what we see in the latter.

[mysticaltora8276]

The more I hear about the Acolyte the more I realize what a wasted potentia the show was. The show writer had religious trauma. Why didn’t she inflicted it upon the Sith? I mean, think about it. They’re an abusive religious order that values selfishness over everything else. She could’ve had a great story about someone who tried to escape that life and build for herself something else and the Jedi want to help her but because of her trauma, she feels like she can’t open up to them because she feels like that they will take advantage of her. Then over the course of the episodes they gain her trust only for her to be betrayed by the person she thought she could trust the most which was her sister who had helped her escape. See? Problem solved and no dragging the Jedi through the mud and justifying a genocide.

[padmestrilogy]

a wookiee just fought two jedi while possessed with lesbian witch magic on my screen and im supposed to think this show can’t cook

[rose-of-red-lake]

Leslye Headland cares more about the Sith than the Jedi. I think her particular fascination is pretty undisputed at this point.

She explicitly says she wanted to write a Dark gothic romance featuring the Sith. And she got as much money as Dune 2 to do that. She got an enormous gift to tell the story she wanted. Okay. Fine. Not my cup of tea. But kudos to her for somehow collecting all those coins.

However, as a consequence of her lack of care for the Jedi, she ends up gleefully twisting them to fit her own power fantasy.

For example from the Collider interview we learned:

How the Jedi became stand-ins to attack the "institution" (of her choice, likely a religious one)

That the Jedi were used to critique patriarchy, with the Jedi master-to-padawan relationship somehow analogous to sexist father and oppressed daughter.

That Anakin murdering Tuskens and keeping it a secret inspired how Vernestra kept the Brendock scandal a secret (and that Vern is on a tragic arc too).

That she roots for Mae because the Jedi would never hold themselves accountable.

How the Jedi destroy children's worlds and how empowering it can be when, for example, they reclaim the saber that killed their parents.

How Sol and the Jedi caused Osha's loneliness.

That Sol talking about his love for Osha somehow robbed her of her agency? The agency Osha uses to join forces with the man who kidnapped her, killed her friends, and tried to kill her sister the previous day.

How she's using Senator Rayencourt as the voice of reason, and an audience stand-in, who asks "legitimate" questions about the Jedi having too much power.

That the Jedi have become cluelessly unaware of how they are perceived or that they could do wrong, because they've relied too long on their high status.

How the Jedi have always been "extremely flawed" (from the GQ interview)

A lot of this is not just divisive or cynical. It's creepy?

Headland wanted a dark Jane Austin romance featuring the villains in Star Wars - okay fine. I still think it could have been done without burning her Jedi Barbies to create new canon. I mean...its just brutal.

[short-wooloo]

Now that the trailer is out, it's probably best that I get this out of the way before acolyte releases

The Jedi are right about the Force and the dark side

The Jedi did not lose their way

The Jedi were not corrupted

The genocide of the Jedi was not their fault

The Jedi are not wrong for being part of the Republic, it is in fact a good thing

The Jedi are not arrogant for thinking the sith are gone

and while we're at it the sith are evil, always, end of discussion

The Jedi do not steal children

If someone wants to leave the Jedi, that's allowed, no one will stop them

The Jedi are right about attachment

Attachment is not love (SW uses the Buddhist definition because Lucas is a Buddhist and the Jedi are based off Buddhist monks, Buddhism defines attachment as being possessive or unwilling to let go of people or things)

The Jedi do not forbid emotions, they forbid being controlled by your emotions, you must control them

The Jedi are not forbidden from loving people, nor are they celibate, they just can't get married (big whup) because their duties must come first

Being peacekeepers doesn't preclude the Jedi from fighting in war, sometimes to keep the peace you have to fight back, especially when its against tyranny, see WWII (or Ukraine today)

Gray jedi are not a thing

The Jedi are not slavers or complicit in slavery

Oh and of course, the Jedi are not elitists for not training non Force sensitives, (Han voice) that's not how the Force works, dave filoni broke the rules so he could shoehorn sabine into a Jedi (to give the benefit of the doubt, I do believe sabine's role as ahsoka's apprentice was meant for an original character but things got condensed by executives, so maybe filoni isn't entirely to blame here)

(Edit)

The Jedi are not cops

The Jedi are not the government/the rulers of the Republic/galaxy

The Jedi do not persecute other Force groups

Padawans are not child soldiers

Feel free to add anything I forgot

Do not, DO NOT!! add anything Jedi critical, I'm done with it and won't hear it, don't have something nice to say? Then go away, I will block on sight, either reblog without comment (either in the reblog or the notes) or don't interact at all