#pro-konoha

[comikadraws]

Thank you for your answer! It was very nice talking with you and I hope to talk to you again sometime! You're right, even if kishomoto fumbled on hia writing out of naivety, there's so much going on here and Konoha is ultimately a dumpster fire of a place, it's just as flawed and horrific as the other villages. I mean, sarutobi didn't even bother helping naruto or Sasuke or even adopting them. They both lived on their own in a small apartment and I'm starting to question how they get their money since they were no more than 12-13.

On another hand, it's so ridiculous that the villagers never apologized to naruto, choji, Lee or everyone else they bullied. They only started kissing naruto' feet when he started fighting for them and became hokage. Like a bunch of strangers have that much resentment on naruto over something he didn't cause.

I always find that Hiruzen is a hard character to talk about due to the disparity between his actions and the way the narrative presents him. He is painted as a kind-hearted, selfless, and honorable leader but ends up being negligent, enabling, and indifferent. He is not a bad person. But also, he is a bad person.

The villagers, to me, are a different story, however. They could be seen as opportunistic, of course, but generally speaking, I just consider them to be irrational - Which is a fairly realistic depiction for a population. They are scared of Naruto and traumatized by the ninetails attack at first but are forced to change their opinion of him once they owe their life to him. The majority of the population probably didn't even actually bully these characters at all. They were just indifferent. And indifference by itself is not a crime or immoral. It is simply just realistic.

I also would've preferred though if the story had actually dealt with those feelings and, again, acknowledged the wrongdoings of the past. But this is one of the lesser evils in this story to me.

Regarding Konoha, I wouldn't necessarily say that it is as bad as the other villages. Not just because Kiri is competing too (lol), but also because the story is very Konoha-centric. This is both good and bad when it comes to judging its politics because

Everything is shown from Konoha's perspective and allows us to feel more sympathy towards the struggles of Konoha citizens (in-group bias)

We spend enough time with Konoha to be actually given a deep-dive into its politics and become critical towards the system (availability bias).

On the surface level, Konoha definitely looks better than Kiri or Suna. The Hokage doesn't try to kill his own 5-year-old child and children are not forced to kill each other to become ninjas. But as soon as we were to actually take a closer look, Konoha might actually look better or worse compared to either.

[abattre]

Naruto fans develop empathy challenge go !!!!

[sasucaty]

i am not a sasuke uchiha apologist because he has nothing to apologise for.

[saschuv]

Thinking about how sad the end to Sasuke’s story is and how his grief and anger is minimised.

Rewatching parts of Naruto and seeing Naruto declaring to sasuke to put all of his hatred onto him and that he’s the only one that can take it is actually so strange. Don’t get me wrong this isn’t hate for his character (okay maybe mild hate because he does do a lot wrong, but so do most Naruto characters and I’m not here to get into that rn). It’s just I find it kind of off… (I know people use this moment as a great sns scene and I have no hate against that ship! This is nothing to do with sns) Sasuke’s grief for his clan and deep seated anger at the village and world is beyond valid. Naruto’s declaration feels slightly entitled? I understand they were friends for a bit and went through a lot together during the short time they were a team and how sasuke is one of Naruto’s first proper connections so it’s all very important to him and so on. It’s just… this isn’t about him? He’s got nothing to do with this? I know it’s about trying to “help” sasuke who is self destructing to get revenge and justice. I’ve spoken before how this fandom compares characters’ traumas a lot and how that’s odd, including how Naruto doesn’t compare to sasuke - both had truly dreadful childhoods, I just think they’re two different traumas and whilst both lonely, are lonely in different ways and for different reasons. And also sasuke is so much more than just lonely. Naruto doesn’t understand Sasuke’s trauma and doesn’t understand his anger. The whole of team 7 disregarded his grief and trauma. At the end of the show Naruto fails to give the Uchiha any justice as hokage and sasuke is manipulated into believing he needs to “repent” and to protect the village. It’s such a sad story. I could say a lot more and this isn’t well articulated at all but anyways… if people disagree or have another interpretation I’d love to hear!

[mdr-reikas]

Listen, I really love characters like Obito and Madara as they are, but can we please talk about how Kishimoto has been consistently incapable of writing a character that doesn't like the leaf village without instantly making them irredeemable or wrong in some way, shape or form?

It feels like Kishimoto is trying to make Konoha seem like the good guys, by making everyone who criticizes konoha an absolute nut case. This doesn't only apply to Obito and Madara, this also applies to characters like Pain and Sasuke. It's not like any of these character's criticisms of Konoha are invalid; it's more that people don't look at that stuff when it's followed by a myriad of war crimes, and I will not pretend like this wasn't intentional on Kishimoto's part.

(by the way, I think the reason why Kishimoto tries to defend konoha and the shinobi system so much towards the end of shippuden, is because Kishimoto set himself up for failure by writing a heroic protagonist that wants to become the leader of a village that is revealed to be more and more corrupt as the series goes on, but doesn't want to betray the original story line of naruto wanting to become the hokage and soforth starts backtracking to make naruto wanting to become hokage justifiable again) this is a story for a another post))

[shyflowerhologram]

The double standards Konoha and fandom generally has when it comes to Uchihas, for example - Asuma’s death. Apparently, Shikamaru is allowed to grieve over his teacher’s death and be unreasonable and lead Choji and Ino against the people they had no chance against. Shikamaru may have had plan against Hidan, but he had no idea about Kakuzu’s abilities. Sure, he planned to get Hidan’s jutsu to kill Kakuzu, but without Kakashi, who got added to his team on last second, Ino and Choji would be long dead before Shikamaru’s plan came into action. Everyone supports and understands him. But now, when Sasuke is grieving over his family and wants a revenge, whole village (and fandom) is calling him a wuss. Where was Kakashi’s famous speech about how he had it worse when he offered his help to Shikamaru’s team? He never showed any intention to support Sasuke about killing Itachi, like he did with Shikamaru. He literally said: “Sasuke quit seeking revenge, even if you success, you’ll be left with emptiness in the end,” of course, it sounds wise, but then Kakashi goes and offers his help to other team for a revenge mission. Why? Itachi was a criminal just like Hidan and Kakuzu, member of Akatsuki. Did Itachi cause less grief for Sasuke than Hidan did for Shikamaru? Why was it so wrong to go after Itachi like they did with Hidan? There is no arguing that Itachi is worse opponent, but that had never been anyone’s point. The only thing everyone droned about was that Sasuke had to give up on revenge, forget about his massacred clan and play house in Konoha like nothing bad had ever happened. Another example would be how everyone says how Sasuke doesn't deserve forgiveness or happiness after everything he had done. What had he done so bad actually? Are we still going on about killing few samurai in a battle? Well, remember Gaara, who used to kill everyone simply for the sake of it. He wasn't on his right mind? Surprise, neither was Sasuke at kage's summit, he was finally going to face man who had ordered his family's death, too bad he wasn't all logical. Gaara could be redeemed for his killing spree, but not Sasuke. Sasuke, who got rid of two akatsuki members, sealed Orochimaru and put end to his experiments and torture (until konoha embraced Orochimaru back, because he was bad but at least he didn't kill samurai). Not to forget how Sasuke did Konoha a huge favor and got rid of Danzo, and I'm not gonna talk about how helped Naruto to save the world, but who says thank you? Nope, no one.

[leportraitducadavre]

Interesting how Konoha possesses a tombstone with the names of all the “heroes” (as that’s the term they’re given after passing) who sacrificed their lives to “save” Konoha (which it’s a concept that encapsulates people who defended it from invasions and enemies and people that likely died looking to bring profit to the realm) as a postmortem recognition; yet the Uchiha, those innocents that were “sacrificed” to guarantee peace (as Danzo states):

Have no memorial of their own, no mention of the clan as a whole nor stone or wall with the names of all the members. Their identities are buried alongside their bodies, never to be mentioned or remembered again by anyone but Sasuke, who likely did not know many of them. Once Sasuke passes away, the Uchiha “sacrifice”, their identity as individuals and as part of a clan, will be completely forgotten, even if their deaths were in the service of Konoha.

[justsasuke]

“Save Sasuke from the dark path he was going down” sounds so deep and romantic or whatever until you remember that the “dark path ” being referred to was the search for answers and closure made necessary by systematic oppression, a corrupt political system, surviving a massacre, and constantly being invalidated.

[the-real-sasuke-uchiha]

Shikamaru buried the murderer of his sensei alive and you don't call that "curse of hatred". Imagine what he would have done if someone exterminated his whole family and grave robbed them to implant stolen body parts on themselves. I honestly think you don't appreciate me for how trully chill and rational I am in comparison to the average shinobi.

[narutinhos]

sasuke really did nothing wrong. "oh, he killed people-" THEY ARE SHINOBI!!! "oh, he wanted to enact revenge-" HE IS THE SOLE SURVIVOR OF A GENOCIDE!!! "oh, he ran away-" KONOHA IS TRASH!!! and so on and so forth

[moon-trees]

sasuke: genocide survivor, made it very clear the only reason he's in the village is to get stronger and kill itachi. very angry, self-deprecating, and being influenced by the curse mark

kakashi: yeah i'm not really gonna help you catch itachi. you should just give up on your revenge and become a slave to the state like me

sasuke: leaves the village

kakashi:

[naori-is-nidaime-hokage]

FUCK WHY I JUST NOW NOTICED THAT EVERY CONTACT THE HOKAGE WITH ITACHI LOOKS LIKE GROOMING. I mean no, it was pretty obvious, BUT WHAT HE AND THE ELDERS TOLD HIM SOUNDS LIKE A CLASSIC PEDOPHILE SET

"You are smarter than your peers"

"You're not like your clan"

"You're already thinking like a Hokage."

ITACHI BABY GET BEHIND ME 🤺🤺🤺

[abattre]

It's funny that we see Konoha get absolutely wrecked like 2 times in the series and no other villages take advantage of that defensive weakness to start a 4th war. Kiri literally had a civil war and even that didn't blow up into an international conflict. Like, realistically, if the Uchiha coup actually happened Konoha would've been fine. The clan wasn't even trying to take over the village, they just wanted to put pressure on Konoha's leadership to stop persecuting them and maybe stop the segregation and surveillance. So like,,, other than some internal restructuring there wouldn't have been much damage done to the village as an entity and the populace would've been largely unaffected. If the Uchiha did decide to kill anyone, they'd probably just target the council members and the village would've been better off anyway because Danzo and his lackeys were doing some truly wack shit behind closed doors.

All that to say,,, the idea that Itachi ‘saved the village’ by agreeing to the genocide of his clan is so stupid. Like Danzo probably knew that he and the rest of the council would be the only ones in any actual trouble when the Uchiha finally got sick of their treatment in the village, and he was so scared shitless of the clan his only resolution was to eliminate them entirely to save his ass from the consequences of his own actions. The only people who were ever in any real danger from the Uchiha were the people in power who were directly perpetuating their oppression and subjugation. Plus, I mean if another village did attack Konoha while this was going on, the Uchiha were by far the strongest clan there anyway; people used to literally just run away from them so they wouldn't have to fight against the Sharingan like they would've defended the place fine it's unlikely another war would've broken out from that.

[kakeimygirl]

Hinata Hyuga/Uzumaki icons.

Se você gostar ou salvar, curta e reposte, por favor.

[saschuv]

I desperately want to know how Fugaku and Mikoto would have reacted to how Sasuke was treated after the massacre. Same with Shisui actually.

I wonder if they would have accepted death the same way or instead would have fought Itachi had they know the fate waiting for Sasuke.

Neither fugaku or mikoto fought itachi as one they couldn’t bring themselves to harm their child. But secondly because as their dying wish, itachi promised he would look after Sasuke. And what did he go and do? Torture this boy beyond comprehension. He never needed to go that far. Sasuke witnessed the Uchiha massacre at the hands of the brother he loved more than anyone over 500,000 times. At the age of seven… he is torn away from everything he loves because of his brother, I think that’s enough to make someone hate another. The extra step with the tsukuyomi really was not necessary. And twice?! Uh huh… it shouldn’t be surprising itachi wouldn’t respect the dying wish of his mother and father considering that atrocities he committed against them already. But it’s still heartbreaking. Idk if I were Mikoto or Fugaku I’d be pissed. And I wonder what Shisui would think. Not only for itachi to kill the whole clan, but then his future crimes too against both Sasuke and as a criminal. Shisui is slightly more complicated as he didn’t support the coup and wanted to protect Konoha like Itachi. But Itachi took it so much further.

The Uchiha clan are the clan of love. They do everything for their family. For itachi to do this is a complete disregard for their culture and everything they stand for and feel. Idk if I were an Uchiha, I’d be appalled.

Just had some thoughts about this and how Itachi completely disregarded his parents’ sacrifice

[enby-axels]

incredible how kishimoto repeatedly asserts that naruto and itachi chose sasuke over the village, when in fact the exact opposite is true. itachi tortured him, took away his entire commmunity, tried to brainwash him. naruto's grand solution was murder-suicide and even after learning the truth about the massacre, he still wanted to be hokage and was confused by sasuke's refusal to forgive and return. they both aligned themselves with the village, but the simple act of performative love for sasuke is enough (according to kishimoto and konoha) for them to be considered exceptionally pacifistic, self-sacrificing characters who defied the village. it's such a fucked moral standard that offers zero compassion to the real victim of the situation: sasuke