#qiu jianluo

[candysweetslover]

In SVSSS, Shen Yuan just supposes that Shen Jiu hated Luo Binghe because he was jealous that Luo Binghe had a mother. But I think that that reasoning is wrong, or atleast incomplete.

So, we know that Shen Jiu hated the name Shen Qingqiu because it reminded him of Qiu Jianluo. It’s more likely that Shen Jiu started to hate Luo Binghe because of the ‘Luo’ he shared with Qiu Jianluo. Shen Jiu only showed hostility towards Luo Binghe after he learned that his name was Luo Binghe.

Knowing MXTX, this was probably intentional and it just makes the PIDW have an even worse conclusion, because it wasn’t that Shen Jiu incapable of caring for other people as he absolutely loved Ning Yingying and probably even Ming Fan. He might have even been decent with Luo Binghe if it wasn’t for the fact that he shared a part of his name with Qiu Jianluo.

This doesn’t excuse Shen Jiu’s actions but it does make more sense that Shen Yuan’s theory that Shen Jiu was jealous of Luo Binghe for having a mother. Because if that was the case it would make more sense for him to be jealous of Ming Fan or any other disciple who came from a wealthy background.

I rest my case here.

[miaoqing]

shen jiu being abused by a qiu and then becoming a qiu who abuses was so clever of mxtx. i'm experiencing emotions

[fun-mxtx-polls]

(The various Jin half-siblings are not included, because then we would run out of slots, but you are welcome to vote other on their behalf)

[zykamiliah]

ch.18 Origins | ch.24 Yue Qingyuan and Shen Qingqiu

so the horrifying great thing about this parallel is that if this is how bingge regularly treated sj after imprisoning him.................................... then the cycle of abuse has come full circle: shen jiu raised a worse version of qiu jianluo and himself. in his youth he was treated like a dog by an abuser he killed later, and in his last days he was treated like a dog by the abuser he made, the child he treated like a beast

brb i'm just gonna... i'm just gonna sit with this for a moment

[violetdisasterzone]

friendly psa for those who haven't read any of the Chinese version of svsss and/or don't know anything about Chinese: the characters for "luo" in Qiu Jianluo's name and Luo Binghe's name are not the same! Here's a brief explanation of each:

Qiū Jiǎnluó is 秋剪罗：

秋/qiū means 'autumn' (same character as in 沈清秋/Shěn Qīngqiū)

剪/jiǎn is a 形声字, a phono-semantic (or sound-meaning) compound, which means one part indicates the sound and the other part gives its meaning. here, 前/qián on top relates to the pronunciation, and 刀/dāo, 'knife,' on the bottom gives its meaning, which is 'to cut.' it can be found most commonly in compounds like 剪刀 for 'scissors'

罗/luó is a super old character that originally related to catching birds in a net, its meaning has broadened quite a bit and is also present in a lot of 成语/idioms. note that this is pronounced with a rising tone!

Luò Bīnghé is 洛冰河：

洛/luò is part of the name of several irl rivers in China, and is the name of the river in svsss where Binghe was found as a baby. note that this is pronounced with a falling tone!

冰河/bīnghé is a compound word meaning glacier, with 冰 for ice and 河 for river

罗 vs 洛: as you can see, these characters have unique appearances and meanings. In the English translations, it's easy to think they're the same word since we don't have tones, but in Chinese, tone is a major distinguishing factor, so these are not pronounced the same. these characters are both common and would not be confused with each other.

I'm not trying to tell anyone what headcanons they can or can't have, but I do think it's important to remember that for those of us reading media like this in translation, and especially for those of us who are not Chinese, we aren't the target audience, and that means we're going to miss out on some stuff sometimes.

anyway this was more info than anyone wanted or needed, but if you didn't know this before I hope you learned something! and as always, disclaimer: I am not by any means an expert in Chinese names, nor am I fluent in the language! if you are either of these and I have said something incorrect, please feel free to correct me

[svsss-fanon-exposed]

Exposing SVSSS Fanon: 11/∞

QIU HAITANG HAS MORE THAN ONE OLDER BROTHER

Rating: FANON - CONFLICTING

On the SVSSS wiki, it states that Qiu Haitang has more older brothers than just Qiu Jianluo. This likely originated from a confusing bit in the CNoveluv fan translation:

The original Shen Qingqiu's family was well-off and he could at least be considered a small wealthy second generation offspring. He had two older brothers that would inherit the family business in the future and a younger sister that he loved. (CNoveluv, Ch. 2)

While this statement obviously is referring to Shen Yuan's family before transmigration, and is translated the following way in the official TL:

In his previous life, Shen Yuan had been well-off growing up, and he’d basically qualified as a modest example of a second-generation rich kid. His two older brothers had been set to inherit the family business, and he’d doted on his little sister. (7 Seas, Ch. 1)

it is still easy to see how the wording of this statement could be interpreted as referring to Shen Jiu.

Later on, in the BCnovels translation, when Qiu Haitang is revealing Shen Jiu's backstory, it is translated the following way:

"My parents took [Shen Jiu] back home, taught him to recognize words and study, gave him the means for food and clothing until he was full and warm without any concerns. My brothers looked after him like he was part of the family." (BCNovels, Ch. 36)

while in the official TL, it is:

...[My parents] brought [Shen Jiu] home, taught him how to read, and paid for his food and clothing—kept him warm, fed, and free of worries. My brother also looked after him, and they were exceptionally close.  (7 Seas, Ch. 6)

(thanks to @furbygoblinxiv for fan tl details!)

There is some ambiguity in the original text, so the mistranslation is not entirely without reason. The phrase used there is:

我兄弟也带他极为亲厚

This is the sentence translated as "My brother also looked after him, and they were exceptionally close." 兄弟 usually refers to brothers (older and younger, plural), however, it can refer to a single brother (rarely), or to cousins and siblings together within a household, or to a friend or friends. There are certain context clues, however, which lead me to believe that there was only one older brother. For example, see the following sentence (which is in the same sentence in the CN text):

长到十五岁，父母去世，我哥哥当家作主

This section is translated: "When [Shen Jiu] was fifteen, my parents passed away, and my brother became head of the household." Notable here is that Qiu Jianluo is referred to as 哥哥 （gege). This is the general term for older brother-- however, if there were other older brothers in the family, Qiu Haitang would have most likely referred to him as 大哥 （da-ge, eldest brother) instead, to denote his position in the lineup. However, she never uses any kind of numbering in regards to him, which makes me think that there is only one 哥 in the family.

Also notable is that there are never any other brothers directly mentioned anywhere in the text. Qiu Haitang's mourning is all for Qiu Jianluo-- if she had older brothers who had survived, she would not have ended up on her own and destitute after the massacre. If she had other older brothers who had died, she would have almost certainly mentioned them when listing her grievances, instead of only mentioning Qiu Jianluo. She only says the following when making her accusation:

He lost his mind and killed my brother and many of our servants all at once, leaving bodies scattered all over the estate—then disappeared from the city with that cultivator the same night! (7 Seas, Ch. 6)

Therefore, since there is never a single mention of an older brother aside from Qiu Jianluo (or any brother at all), it doesn't seem that there were any others.

[prinzgnomeovonchaos]

New fun Ning yingying time travel concept:

End of novel nyy gets displaced back in time near a particular mansion. The young master, a lord qiu, seeing a wealthy, sect adjacent looking cultivator who is also a very pretty young(looking) lady immediately offers her shelter. (Shen jiu saving time babey)

Nyy accepts, thinking it best to stay put and write her shizun to come investigate. At this point she just thinks she's been yoinked through space or something. Also she doesn't remember qiu haitangs name, she wasn't all that important to her in the present.

At this point shen jiu is just about to become their slave, so qiu haitang is pretty lonely and bored under her brothers thumb (not that she'd call it that, but she doesnt know better. Og!qht seemed pretty naive and isolated) and immediately latches on to this exciting new guest! ("You call your brother a-luo? I know an a-luo! He stilole my shizun! >:(")

Something in this household is very weird but nyy can't put her finger on it... Until qht presents her newest toy friend, little shen jiu. Who is reluctantly super intrigued by this cultivator lady!! That's what he wants to be!!

Now nyy might not have remembered qhts name, but she did remember what her shizun was slandered with, and something does not match up! And the master of the house is being super weird and sketchy! Not to mention her shizun should have popped out of the aether by now? (Her message did get to the sect, but it lead to more confusion than anything, so it's going to take some time for them to get off their ass)

Anyways, it's time for our girl to investigate! One thing leads to another and long story short, a team of cang qiong peak lords and disciples arrives to see a city in uproar! The young master has been publically disgraced! The young mistress has sworn off her family to become just like her new idol, miss nyy herself! Shen jiu is for the first time in his life actually safe and already wheedled the promise to go look for qi-ge out of nyy! And this is just the beginning, certain people in this time-line dont know it yet, but the reconning is coming and she is wearing orange ribbons :)

[namwool]

genuine question: if corporal punishment was a common thing in ancient times, doesn't that justify qjl's treatment of sj too? slavery was normal at the time, after all

It physically pains me to answer this question. But yes.

While I dislike QJL's greatly to the point that it makes me want to strangle him, chop off his dick, shove it down his throat and make him shit his own balls, the historical context is important to understand why he was 'entitled' to abuse SJ.

We, modern people, who live differently from our great-great-great ancestors, in different times with different values, one in which we're taught that beating someone is wrong, is different from the beliefs of people from thousands of years ago.

Take for instance ancient Egypt, the Roman Empire etc. Owning slaves back then was the norm. If you were to ask a civilian of those empires, they wouldn't dwell too much on the morality of owning slaves. They wouldn't see anything wrong with it. Because it easied their work.

And if one group defeated another, it was a normal practice to enslave the defeated.

Back then, abuse and slavery were considered to be as natural as breathing. Just like slavery was prominent, so was domestic abuse.

Does this make it ok? No.

My parents lived through a period of time were corporeal punishments were a must-have in schools. Whenever they recount their times, telling me how school operated back them, I am always left speechless and horrified.

In my mind, the only one allowed to lift a hand on me is my mother. And that's it.

However, I have noticed the inconsistent views my parents have about teachers hitting students.

When they talk about their school years, recounting how severe and strict their teachers were, they dont view it as sever as I see it.

And that's where the conflicting views lie.

If a teacher ever lifted a hand on me, my mom would have brought hell on earth, but, at the same time, she doesn't think her teachers had been wrong when using a stick to strike the student's palm for not doing homework.

YQY and SJ himself, despite having experienced slavery, dont address it as much. Which is a clear indicator that they too believe it to be normal. Not even SY, someone who came from the 'modern' world, seems to be affect by the concept of slavery. Let's remember that while exploring SJ's memories he said something along the lines of seeing a live action of a murder, not once addressing the severe abuse SJ suffered at the hands of QJL.

Am I saying that slavery and abuse are normal?

Fuck no.

No one deserves to be beaten up. Shen Jiu didn't deserve the beatings, nor did Luo Binghe, nor anyone else.

Slavery is a disgusting practice, which deserves to be punished accordingly. Slavery ruined many people's livelihood, and caused generational trauma. And we see that with Shen Jiu as well, whose personal trauma ended up affecting LBH as well.

However, if people are going to excuse LBH's inhumane behavior, torture and savage dismemberment of SJ, turning him into a limbless state, I might as well excuse SJ's abuse toward LBH, while totally ignoring QJL's existance.

[stardust-falling]

Qijiu Week 2023

Day 5: Pirates & Mermaids ——— Qi-ge will come save you!

[oh-wow-im-still-here]

Was rereading the shen jiu and yue qingyuan extras and I'm at the part where luo bingge is about to present SJ with YQY's sword shards and this passage caught my eye:

"He [Luo Binghe] scraped at the leaves drifting within his steaming cup of tea and commented..."

And when I read this my mind flashes back to the one piece of shen jiu animated in the donghua is him playing around with his tea and I cant help but wonder if bingge does it in the exact same way? And if so, how many other mannerisms and habits did he pick up from shen jiu? Because we know that LBH had the habit of watching his master and paying attention to him in excruciating detail for his own safety and to also maybe-somehow gain his approval (rip lmao). I just think that's such a cool visual/concept.

then my head spins even more in thinking about how binghe was part of the *gentlemen's* peak, shen jiu was the leader of the *gentlemen's* peak and took on that persona with gusto. But where did he learn to act like a *gentlemen?* Or have any preconceived notions on how a *gentlemen* should act? Qiu Jianluo.

So Luo Bingge acts like shen jiu who acts like qiu jianluo who---

something something history repeats itself something something for good or ill traits are passed down from person to person who heavily impact you something something cycle of abuse something something people who have been dehumanized by their abusers clinging onto gentlemanly personas to feel like a legitimate person again something something my heart hurts.

[crazynekochan]

Send them to Jail - SVSSS

(I saw another version of this, but was dissatisfied with the amount of actual crimes that had been missing from the characters alongside some characters missing entirely. So with the help of a few people on a Discord server I made my own poll)

[23ppp000]

[joys-of-everyday]

Read right to left. Translation of this thing I did.

If it gives Black Butler vibes, the reference is chapter 131-133 btw XD

[zykamiliah]

svsss and the cycle of abuse

so in the three iterations of the cycle of abuse, there's always four parties at play:

-the abuser who is also a figure of authority, and is therefore abusing their power

-the abused and/or unwanted child

-and the naive party/favored child, who is doted on by the abuser and who is blind to the abuser's abusive behaviour

-the abused child draws comfort and protection from the favored child, while the latter seems to love them. this love will worsen the abuse since the abuser doesn't like that the abused child gets on well with the favored child.

-there's also a passive party who knowingly allows the abuse, thus being passively complicit to it

not featured in the diagram: the environment and people in the abuser's cycle also exhibit abusive tendencies, since they emulate the authority figure (in each iteration, those are the men at Qiu Manor, Ming Fan and the other Qing Jing Peak disciples, and Bingge's followers, respectively).

as to the question of who is worse, who did the most damage: it's complicated. in my opinion, they were equally awful in their own, personal ways. the scope of the power the abuser holds is important here. bingge is a heir of qjl's and sj's abuse cycles, thus he looks to be the more evil. in reality, one couldn't exist without the other and if the roles were swapped, they would do as much damage as bingge.

adding @treasurewoodbox's tags from another post because I feel they summarize the topic beautifully:

[scrivenger-grimgar]

Writing Idea for Scum Villain Self Saving System (SVSSS)

Flight Rising. Flight Rising has so many creatures, items, foods, and features that already have associated lore, they even have drawings and lore entries in the bestiary! The Sornieth Continent could be a separate island from the main plot line locale of SV, with dragons as the resident sentients, and thus driving away any humans interested in colonizing. Imagine raid parties to the island for exotic pets/illegal trade, stealing dragon eggs. Having not only Shen Yuan but all of his siblings as well, be reincarnated as dragons, their eggs being taken and sold off to the highest bidder.

Shen Yuan’s egg is bought by,,, hmmmm, Qiu Jianluo, as a gift for Haitang. not much would be known about these eggs, and since they all looked the same, they were thought to be the same species, but thats not how elemental dragons work. 

The Shen siblings are from different parents of the same clan from the wind flight, meaning their eggs look the same and they all have pale green eyes, but they are not all the same breed. 

Shen Da-ge, lets call him Fángshǒu (defender/protector), would be an Obelisk dragon; strong and sturdy, but also majestic in a rugged and earthy way. He became an Obelisk due to his desire to protect and provide for his siblings, but not in a way that would tie them down and make them miserable. Fangshou’s egg is bought by a curious Tianlang-Jun, who is baffled after eagerly awaiting the egg to hatch, when a tiny lion-like demon-beast-creature immediately demands to be returned to his siblings. Thus starts the long and epic tale of two idiots being dragged around the continent by a baby dragon. Oh, and Su Xiyan shows up sometimes.

Shen Er-ge, Lǒumìng (cherish/embrace life), is a Ridgeback dragon, cunning and clever, and possessing a crafty nature that gave their parents many headaches via Rube Goldberg machines. They are a perfect match for the Ridgeback with their tinkering and experimenting. Louming’s egg is bought by a Huanhua palace disciple and gifted to the old palace master, who promptly discards the egg in one of the many palace courtyards. When they hatch, Louming is disgruntled and irritated, being kept in a cage and not allowed to walk around, until they are discovered and befriended by Su Xiyan. Hating how he and Su Xiyan are being pushed and pulled around by dumb old people, Louming eventually breaks out and vows to kill the old palace master for very obviously lusting after and manipulating Su Xiyan, and likely many others.

Shen San-ge, our beloved Ānyuán (calm/quiet, wall), is an Imperial dragon. Not social but not distant, obsessive, passionate, and slightly perfectionist, Yuan is perfectly fit to be an Imperial dragon. His egg is bought as a present for Qiu Haitang, by Qiu Jianluo, who thinks this is an excellent decision. They are particularly unfortunate, however, as Yuan doesn’t care if he’s in Xianxia Land, child abuse isn’t fucking happening under his watch; and with how large he will grow to be, he’ll also have the ability to do something about it. If he happens to adopt a new didi for the family, well... Meimei’s always wanted a younger brother. If that happens to be the former slave Little Nine, well... little nine no longer exists. Yuan only knows Shen Jiū (turtledove).

Finally Shen Meimei, Yúkuài (cheerful/happiness) is a Wildclaw. Fierce and viscous, she can and will beat anyone into agreeing with her. With her energetic and cheerful nature she is often underestimated, but she wasn’t the 3 time winner of the national Judo championship for nothing. Yukuai’s egg is passed around for a while before its seized by Cang Qiong’s Kang Dihua, soon to be Qingde (clear kindness), the succeeding disciple of the Beast Peak, Ling You. Yukuai, while first only thought of as some rare beast, soon established herself as an intelligent young woman, on par with or even above the other disciples in terms of intelligence.

I’m going to come back and rb this with images of each of the siblings, as adults and as hatchlings, so watch for that ig.