#ralsei's on kris seems pretty clear-cut to me

[existencebringsonlypain]

why do you guys talk about tea theory as if it isn't... the clearly intended way for us to interpret the teas

[infizero-draws]

girl what do you feel about kris' and noelle's relationship in snowgrave i want to know

OK OK. first of all thank you for specifying "in snowgrave" because if you just said their relationship in general i would literally never stop talking.

second tho, im really bad at putting how i feel about character dynamics into words because often there's just soooooo much to be said and different ways of looking at it and i get overwhelmed if i try to make some all-encompassing analysis. so let it be known that whatever i say here is not the full picture and there's so much more i could say.

putting this under the cut because i already know im gonna talk for way too long:

that being said oughghghhgh. where to fucking begin. i'd say the most fascinating (and disturbing) thing about their relationship in snowgrave is the weird romantic undertones. the fact that you have to pressure noelle into the idea of riding the ferris wheel with KRIS instead of with susie, her actual crush.

one of the most overt symbols of this weirdness is definitely the thorn ring. i know it isnt the only ring you give to noelle to equip, but this is the one that's mandatory for the snowgrave route. in order to do the route, you have to make KRIS give NOELLE a RING. a ring that literally HURTS HER TO WEAR. if that isnt a metaphor for a forced relationship i dont know what is

however perhaps the most damning and obvious one is of course this option:

i would say something about this myself but @/sorrybutiforgothowtomakecontent's tags on another one of my posts really summed it up:

im also aromantic so this really resonated with me. but yeah just going back to the first point they make. you literally HAVE to say "we're something else" in order to do the snowgrave route, which seems to make it pretty clear that this kinda subtext was intended. snowgrave can only exist with kris and noelle being "something else" because that's literally what snowgrave IS.

my favorite way to view snowgrave is through the lens of an arranged/forced marriage. again, the ring. it just feels so gross, especially because it's not just a regular marriage but an abusive marriage. snowgrave is abuser simulator (2021). im sure i dont need to explain that part

but the thing is, SNOWGRAVE IS NOT JUST ABOUT NOELLE and that's what makes it SO BAD. not only is noelle being forced to go through all of this, but KRIS is being forced to be the one who does it to her! kris clearly is EXTREMELY upset about snowgrave judging from the constant opportunities to choose more "normal" dialogue and abort the route, and from afterwards when they meet back up with ralsei and susie:

kris, under no circumstances, wants to do ANY of this. but they literally do not have a choice. snowgrave isnt kris manipulating noelle, it is US forcing kris into manipulating noelle. no one is winning here. they're both traumatized, and kris physically cannot even talk to their friends about it or show the true extent of their hurt. it SUCKSSSSS

and when you consider the idea that kris and noelle's friendship may have become strained specifically due to dess' disappearance, and kris possibly having something to do with that with the bunker and whatnot..... well now you're just forcing kris to hurt their friend AGAIN, when in the normal route this could've been their chance to finally reconnect. ahghrhgrhghh

going back to the marriage stuff, it's just so uncomfortable to see these two forced together like this. noelle is in love with susie. we dont know kris well enough to know if they have a crush on anyone (or if they get those kinds of feelings at all), but that doesn't matter. the fact is these two are likely not romantically interested in each other at all, and they are being forced together BY THE PLAYER. and it's horrific. (and even if one or both of them felt that way, this is still entirely wrong. they do not get a choice here)

@/hellspawnmotel's tags on this comic of hers will always haunt me, bcuz like. yeah. this is it:

there's also the fact that kris is naturally kind of a goofball; they're a prankster, especially it seems when it comes to noelle, as can be seen with the stepping off the button thing or the many, many examples from their shared childhood brought up by noelle.

but in the snowgrave route, kris drops this entirely. all of the alternate dialogue options to abort the route, which are very likely FROM kris, are very genuine and apologetic. kris is scared they're going to lose their friendship with noelle completely because of what you're making them do, and it's like they panic and all of their usual goofiness and sass is just dropped for genuine emotion. it's really sad to see honestly, esp in a full snowgrave route where you know that their efforts will be in vain.

OH OH ALSO. can't believe i haven't mentioned this yet. the fact that NOELLE KNOWS SOMETHING IS GOING ON WITH KRIS. THAT'S one of the things that really makes me insane.

noelle goes through ALL THAT, seemingly AT THE HANDS OF HER FRIEND....... and yet. she knows that something is wrong. she KNOWS kris, and she knows that they don't act like this. you'd think she would instantly cast kris off, it would be the right thing to do, but she doesn't. because she knows that something is off.

i cannot stress enough the fact that noelle is the ONLY one who seems to have noticed just how strange kris has been acting. sure other characters comment on kris seeming off or doing something they usually wouldn't do, but it is NOELLE and NOELLE ALONE who takes such notice of it and decides to actually DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

"i have to figure it out" is a mission statement, it implies that noelle (at least in the snowgrave route), is going to actively try to figure out what's going on with kris, WHICH IS CRAZYY and i feel like not enough people are talking about. not even kris's own mother has fully realized something's wrong. like she says, noelle seems to be the only one who's noticed just how off kris has been acting, and the only one who might try to understand and help them. genuinely makes me insane thinking of where that might go in this route oaugurhghh

im gonna stop here because im exhausting myself but. in conclusion I LOVE CHILDHOOD FRIENDS GONE WRONG!!!!!!!!! FAVORITE TROPE EVER!!!!!!!!!!!! anyways read this comic (all 3 parts) and you'll get it

oh also "kris, why are you wearing my watch?" still makes me go fucking insane

[aquapede]

ok wait. i think i might be onto something here. i think i know why queen constantly ignoring ralsei is highlighted so much.

but to explain that i think i need to first explain the thought process that led me here, bc otherwise i sound insane. but i might sound a little insane getting there so--bear with me here

so, first off, ralsei is FULL of metaphors for kris.

to list a few: feeling abandoned and alone in a tiny town, waiting for someone to arrive to give them a feeling of purpose either in the form of a prophecy or a vacation, kris' adoration of asriel manifesting as wanting to be like him as much as possible, and ofc how ralsei just...looks like the other dreemurrs but with red/pink horns. he doesn't have to be their old headband to be a pretty clear parallel to them.

ok im putting the rest of this under the cut bc WOW it gets long from here

so, with the kris->ralsei parallel down, let's move to a similar topic rq

by the time dr takes place, toriel is smothering kris in attention in the aftermath of her divorce and asriel's departure to college. she says herself that she feels lonely with only the two of them at home:

and the only way she thinks she can bond with kris is through their shared memories of the family that tied them together.

queen reflects that in a more cartoonish and exaggerated way, like with her only trying to have a truce with kris once she knows the two of them are alone, or how she tries to use reminiscing on the arcade game in the cyber field to bring them closer. and she isn't lonely in the sense she's alone, she thinks no one understands her or what she's doing, and thus, is emotionally alone.

kris does seem to genuinely want to connect with queen, too, even making a move towards the smaller arcade cabinet without our input.

and it goes hand-in-hand w/ toriel's hinted-at alcohol abuse how queen only becomes visibly drunk once, in a scene where only kris is around.

so, let's take all of this a step further. if queen's behavior towards kris is indicative of how toriel treats kris now, and ralsei is a parallel to kris, i don't think it's a far leap to assume queen just straight up forgetting ralsei exists is how toriel used to treat kris, before asriel and asgore left and she had no one else in the family to turn to.

and i dont think this is malicious on any end! just to be clear!

queen seems to not have any ill will towards ralsei. like at all. she doesn't hurt him or try to control him after realizing she doesn't have a room for him.

but her immediate next action after realizing that she didn't know what to do with him was...to shove the responsibility of taking care of ralsei onto swatch/the swatchlings, the other major power(s) of the mansion.

and in this fantasy world where she's the villain, yeah, thats a good thing! but in a less literal sense, she put the 'burden' of taking care of him on someone else because she's too busy thinking about and accommodating for the lightners (or, asriel) to properly pay attention to ralsei. she doesn't know enough about him to give him anything he wants.

then, in her giga fight, queen briefly mentions ralsei (most likely to try and appeal to him) but can't even remember his name.

and ralsei can't find anything to say about queen in his toast besides how she shunted him into his role as a servant.

they're both content having their only common ground be their care for the lightners (or, the other dreemurrs) and neither really make a move to make their relation deeper than surface-level.

it's played for laughs but if this is genuinely the connection we're supposed to draw it's...sad.

and, obviously if this is meant to be a parallel to toriel's previous behavior, it probably wasn't as cartoonish as queen displays it, but the general idea it's giving is sad as hell, both for what it means for ralsei and for what it means for kris.

and if ralsei has memories of neglect alongside his whole being alone all his life thing....no wonder he's clingy.

tl;dr toriel is possibly making up for her previous neglect and ralsei is the way this is illustrated

[nightqueen1221]

rouxls x reader first kiss oneshot maybe?

This is over a month lare I'm so sorry. Pirate Kaard cuz we can.

    It was obvious. You visited him so often, as much as you could. Mindlessly talked about things you both enjoyed. It seemed everyone knew you and the Rouxls had fallen for each other. Lancer, being one of the closest people you two knew, decided to set you two up. As much as he wanted this, he needed help. So away he went to go find his band of helpers.

    "You want us, to help you, set those two up?" Susie asked in a confused voice.

    "Yep! And you're the closest person I know so I want you to help!" He said in a cheery tone.

    "Hey Lancer, I don't think you understand that I'm not really cut out for all that, lovey-dovey type stuff." She paused for a moment. "But you could try Ralsei and Kris. Kris seems to flirt with everyone and Ralsei is pretty good with spells so maybe that could be of use."

    Catching up with the group, both Ralsei and Kris agreed to help. Susie reluctantly joined. Not only was it a bit tough to find out how to set this up, but having to explain things for Susie was another challenge along the way. After everything was done, they all felt rather confident about their plan.

    You started walking to the place you always visited. You were politely greeted by your friend. "Ah, Y/N! Welcome-eth back!" He smiled. You nodded and waved, the same smile as his made it's way onto your face. You mostly helped with organizing his place and keeping track of things since it's hard to do all that by yourself.

    "Lesser Dad! Lesser Dad!" Lancer came running into the room yelling. "What-eth is it, young sire?" Rouxls responed.

    "Can you come here for a second?" Lancer asked. He had a confused look but choose to follow Lancer. You didn't think much of it since after the King was behind bars, Rouxls had become something of a new father to him.

    You continued with what you were left off with. A few minutes passed and he still hadn't come back. You started to look for him and Lancer to see if anything was wrong. You were going to open the door when it opened it self. You saw Kris, Susie, and Ralsei at the door. Susie was clearly a bit shocked to see you standing directly infront of the door. Also because she didn't hit you with how she slammed the door open.

    "Y/N! We were looking for you!" Ralsei said. "Why were you guys looking for me?" You asked.

   "We have a few questions." Kris answered, they were a quite kid but spoke up when needed.

   "About what?"

   "We found this area and we really need your help since you would know about it more than us." Ralsei spoke. You were hesitant and first, thinking about what to say next, but you agreed. The three of them lead you to a secluded area that was strangely beautiful. Everything was filled with a beautiful reddish-purple color. Despite them saying you would know the area better than them, you had know idea about your surroundings, they had been unfamiliar with you.

    "I know you guys wanted me to help you with figuring something out with this but-"

   "Shhhh!" They all whispered as Kris and Ralsei pointed to the middle of the room. Rouxls was standing there, all alone. You could immediately feel your heart start to beat a bit faster. He was just so pretty and the room really made him stand out. You felt something forceful behind you, a push. Surprised, you turned around for a split second to see Susie pushing you and hear Ralsei whisper "Good luck!" with a thumbs up. You turned back to look at Rouxls, he was looking around the room. He suddenly stopped when he noticed you. You could hear him quietly clear his though.

    He was putting up a confident face, but the rest of his body spoke a nervous language. He reached out a hand for you to grab with his usual smile, yet his hand was shaking and slightly sweaty. It looked like it had been straight out of a romantic novel or movie. He pulled you in close enough so you could both clearly see each others faces. You could see him breathe out as if he was to calm himself which he most definitely needed.

    "Thine was told-eth to, um, speak-eth to thou about an important-eth matter." He was struggling to find the right words to say. "S-see Lancer had-est spoken to thine about, well, thou's behavior." What did he mean by behavior? You asked if you had done something wrong. "N-no-est. Thou would never have done-eth that. Rather-eth, both our behaviors. See-" He cut him self off. "Thine can't take it anymore!" He declared grabbing your shoulders and looking into your eyes.

    "Y/N Thine hadst feeling for thou and is hopeing-eth for a mutual bond!" He shouted, obviously scared and waiting for a response. You took a second to respond as you just couldn't believe what just happened, of course with the way he was acting it was kind a dead give away. But it easily could have been something else that he was nervous over.

    "Of course, I've liked you for so long now, and honestly couldn't have asked for a better way for you to show this." You smiled. You two stood there for a second.  He was still shaking from before, but he had calmed down immensely after you accepted him.

    "OH MY GOD! JUST KISS ALREADY!" You hear Susie yell from behind you. Rouxls had started to blush intensely at this remark, but came back with a remark.

    "DOTH THOU WISH-ETH TO RUIN ART!?" He exclaimed. He quietly whispered to you, "But if you would like-est that you may." Blush even more intense that before. You took his consent and pulled him in close so your lips would touch.

    "Yay! We did it!" You hear Lancer, not to far away from his group of friends. He went up and high fived Susie. Of course it was a set up. You just didn't really see it till you were up where you're standing. Rouxls on the other hand...

    "Thoust had set-eth us up!" He said shocked. "Yep! Susie, Kris and Toothpaste Boy helped me as well." Lancer ran up to you two. " Did you like it?" He asked. You nodded your head as Rouxls was still trying to comprehend what is going on. Lancer smiled and ran off to talk to his friends, while you had malfunctioning Rouxls Kaard to deal with.

[seraphsnorlax]

Prompt: Susie has to practice her healing magic by hugging

---

"Who the f--"

"Susie! Language, please!" Ralsei was quick to cut her off, as Berdly began snerking behind his wing.

"I'm sorry, but you call that healing magic?" Berdly continued, tipping his head up dramatically as he scoffed, "If you need magic lessons, I suppose--"

"Actually, I'm the one whose been teaching Susie!" Ralsei chimed in, giving Berdly a bright smile, "I can show you too, Berdly!"

"Uh--and you were--" Berdly opened his mouth to retort, but something about the sharp glares he suddenly received from both Kris and Susie caused his throat to dry into an awkward, noncommittal cough.

"You just need more practice Susie, here!" Ralsei cheered, leaning over to hug Susie, causing Berdly's face to contort in outrage.

Such a sly devil! Leaning in and trying to sweep his dear Susan off her feet? Right in front of him? Well a Gamer never backed down from a challenge run, that was for sure!

"A-ah, well!" Susie coughed, petting a hand down roughly on Ralsei's head, "I guess...more practice isn't a bad thing."

Oh? Was this a chance? Perhaps it was her way of wanting to get closer, without revealing her true romantic intentions...

"Oh, I don't think just hugging persay is--" Ralsei began, but Berdly was quick to push them apart with a brisk movement, though flinched slightly as he caught sight of Kris' sword being drawn.

"I actually think that makes perfect, logical sense! Illogical sense makes perfect sense!" Berdly began fumbling, fluttering his wing slightly higher, to obscure his face from a now confused looking Susie.

--

"Okay! Hugging time!" Susie roared, and Berdly felt himself being shoved aside as Noelle made her presence known.

"O-oh! Well--Um, I know! Healing magic as well! So feel free to ask me anything--or show me anything, or practice anything with me--uh, Susie!" Noelle managed to get up, her face growing redder by the second.

"Oh--swell! Thanks," Susie smiled slightly, not understanding her intent fully, but glad to have a chance to get stronger, "Uh--hold still?"

Noelle's let out a small squeak as Susie moved closer, and covered her face with her hands in an attempt to hide her excitement.

"Oh, dear Noelle! No need to be afraid!" Berdly incorrectly interjected, "Here, if I must--"

"No! That's fine, Berdly!" Noelle looked at him with a strained, slightly wild eyed expression, "You don't even know healing magic!"

"Ah, my dear Noelle...I apologized for leading you on in the early years of our friendship, but as we've grown together, I hope you know--"

"That was literally ten minutes ago--and you didn't lead me on!" Noelle couldn't help but shove him, earning herself a hearty laugh from Susie, and an approving look from Kris.

Ralsei looked in confusion up at Susie, as Kris moved forward to lean against Susie, causing the feuding duo to pause and stare at Kris in disbelief.

"What's wrong, Kris? I didn't think you could use magic." Susie laughed, her teeth sharply grinning down at them as she slung an arm around their shoulders, "Or were you hoping the healing master would teach you too."

----

"She's right, Kris!" Noelle cleared her throat, "I think I'd be a better--"

"Kristopher! Really!" Berdly scolded them, "That's not even how you hug."

Kris stared at Berdly for a moment, their mouth moving before they could answer for themself,

"Oh, then show me how." Kris spoke, though their tone was as sarcastic as they could muster.

"Oh, dear, deary Kris. I understand your reverence for my superior magical, combative, and superior stream quality powers, but alas, I never cheat on the VN route I choose." Berdly lamented sardonically, Noelle taking the opportunity to inch closer to Susie as he spoke.

"I...I can show you how too, Kris..." Ralsei mumbled.

"Too late, nerds!" Susie declared, pulling Ralsei in with her other arm, squishing the two with both arms as her muscles flexed.

"Oof--I guess I have a lot of hugging I need to learn too!" Ralsei griped, though with a cheerful smile.

Kris felt themself smile slightly as Noelle held her cheek, still flustered, but felt bad for her nonetheless. They didn't want to take away and opportunity for her and Susie to get closer, and well, there wasn't much closer you could get than a hug.

--

Two options formed in their mind as to how to get the two girls together, and as Kris formulated which path to take--

"Alright, you two dweebs next!" Susie released them, as she leaned over and crunched herself against both Noelle and Berdly, who shared equally flushed, delighted expressions, and shook them slightly, "Damn, I can't wait to show Lancer later. He's pretty bouncy though, might slip outta my grip..."

Kris watched as the grip of the hug damaged Noelle and Berdly for about three points of damage, and Susie's ultimate healing skill heal them for about the same.

She was getting better with practice, that was for sure.

"Well, it's time to seal the tunnel, right? We can practice more back at home!" Ralsei declared, starting to worry as the red in Noelle and Berdly's face didn't seem to just be from blushes anymore.

"O-oh, is that it--I mean! We can practice any time, okay Susie?" Noelle stammered, hiding her face again.

"Hey--Berdly, you alive?" Susie asked with a small chuckle, watching as Berdly quickly passed out as she released him too, "What a weenie."

"Oh no--let me heal him--" Ralsei started, but Kris put their hand on his shoulder, shaking their head no, "Oh? Kris? Did you want to try too--I don't know if human's can use magic..."

"He's fine like that." Kris spoke dryly, but in their own voice.

"Kris is right! Berdly used too much power earlier, he deserves a rest!" Noelle beamed, grateful to have an excuse for Berdly to shut up.

---

"W-well, if you say so!" Ralsei shrugged, touching his cheeks softly as well, "That was nice! Much harder than Kris hugs, but still very nice!"

"Oh? You two have hugged, Kris?" Noelle asked with a sly grin, "I thought they didn't like being touched all that much! You must be a really special friend to them--um, Ralsei!"

Ralsei blushed deeply at this, unconsciously reaching for his hat to cover his face, only to realize it wasn't there.

"Oh! That makes me really happy to hear!" Ralsei smiled through his paws, to which Kris felt themself blushing slightly as well.

"What the hell, Kris? You were helping Ralsei practice his healing magic? You never let me hit you with my axe?" Susie griped, giving Kris a slight shove as she rested her elbow on their shoulder.

>I was just hugging him because I like him >You're not fast enough to hit me with your axe

Kris struggled as the voice began to speak for them, but managed an even tone as they stated that they hugged Ralsei just because they like him.

"I--I like you too, Kris!" Ralsei smiled brightly, his cheeks still flushed happily.

"I like Ralsei too!" Susie agreed, slinging a rough arm around him with another sharp toothed smile, "Just you wait, and I'll show you how to use an axe too!"

"I-I don't think I can lift your axe--but I want to try!" Ralsei spoke in a determined tone, staggering slightly as Susie gripped him, but felt surprisingly comfortable despite his toes barely touching the ground.

---

"That's the spirit! Now, c'mon Kris. Let's head back."

The two of them bid farewell to their friends, and headed towards the fountain of darkness. Kris felt an odd sensation overtake themself as they stared up into the light.

A world of darkness. Where they'd always be with their friends here.

They never would have befriended Susie without these worlds, and they never would have reconnected with Noelle like this...

But that was a thought for another time.

Another day.

"We'll go see them after, Kris. Lancer and everyone else, back in the classroom." Susie reassured them, her voice softening slightly.

Kris nodded.

And the two entered the fountain, and returned back to their world.

At least for now.

[protectchara201x]

(ignoring all the other juicy Deltarune 2 stuff to shove Chara Talks into it lololol)

I haven’t been super active on this blog because frankly I have like, three? looong analysis/theorycrafting posts I’ve been putting off working on and it fills me with shame to log in and see them waiting in my drafts.

But.

With the release of Deltarune Chapter 2, I wanted to talk kinda in general about how I thought it could impact the fandom’s perception of Everybody’s Favorite Demon Baby, and also point out something in specific about the Weird Route that might connect back to Undertale.

Putting it under the cut to avoid spoilers and long-winded ramblings for the unwilling. Includes spoilers for the Weird Route.

(NOTE: may update later if I notice more things for to put in section II. I’d like to make a full list of parallels if I can tidy them up.)

I. Pre- vs Post-Release Thoughts (you can skip down to II if you don’t care, it is genuinely Long and Pointless)

Okay, so first off. I got SO worried like, the day before the new chapter dropped? It hit me that whatever new stuff we got out of this, people would connect back to Undertale, and. Honestly, I really do hate connecting everything back to Chara, because I do think of Kris as their own character and I really like them and don’t want to ignore everything they got going on. But, I am first and foremost a shameless Chara stan and they’re very important to me, so I kinda... did spend a few minutes reeling from all the new DR stuff as its own stuff, and then immediately started thinking about how this would reflect back on Chara in Undertale lol.

But that’s ok for me to do here because this is my All Chara, Only Chara, All The Time blog, so I am gonna only really talk about Deltarune here to talk about them lol.

So yeah, I started getting anxious beforehand worrying about how everyone would take any and all implications and apply it to mean “aha, Chara IS evil!” The fakeout with the pie reveal in the anniversary stream was a big relief, but I still got worried leading up to the release about what could be in it.

Because part of why I’ve always thought that “Chara was genuinely evil from the start” and even “ok maybe not TOTALLY evil, but Chara was still a kinda bad person” were unlikely was, even if you throw out all the other popular Chara-sympathetic theories. To me, both these takes just seemed too below TF’s talent and the way he wrote all his other characters with depth and love; a Chara like the one these theories propose just doesn’t belong in a world created by TF, and the way the Dreemurrs talk about them overall, the way TF made a point of having Chara say they were guided and repeatedly, correctly blame you the player for the destruction in Kill-All, I was sure that he never intended them to ever be as bad as the fandom sometimes tried to make them out to be.

... Like, mostly sure. Like, 80% sure? Because he never ever talks about them, so it’s impossible say for sure, and it is still theoretically possible that “Chara was and is bad” was the cold-ass take he’d intended all along. So yeah, leading up to the release, I started getting antsy that whatever new lore came out of it, either he’d directly confirm “Chara was a villain?” “*cocks gun* Always has been” or there’d be something that’d at least heavily implicate them, or could be twisted to implicate them, as a negative force. More ammo to be used against them in the Chara Debate Circles would be a drag, and outright confirmation of them as a villain would honestly break my heart and I’d be forced to disown Toby Fox, My Beloved Cool Dad.

And, right now? Tell the truth, I’m SO relieved and I am SO happy. And not just because of how much depth and characterization it seems Kris is getting! (imo, because rn I just headcanon them as an unhappy teen desperately trying to keep their new friends going on adventures with them and trying to fight back against the player’s control)

I love how this chapter seems to be TF doing course-correcting based on fandom interpretations. Because Kris just isn’t evil, even if they are a knife teen, even if they are the Knight, they’re just NOT evil and that’s canon, baybeeee; it’s made clear in this chapter and the previous one that they love their family even outside of the player’s control, they care about their new friends even outside of the player’s control, they’re established as a weird creepy kid but no one sees them as scary or evil, they’re just Kris, and even in the Weird Route, TF made a point of hammering in the differences between Kris and the player in the Weird Route: Susie and Ralsei notice how distressed Kris seemed after you have Noelle ice Berdly, Noelle heard a voice that she said wasn’t Kris telling her to kill, and the FUCKING Spamton fight: “Kris called for help... but nobody came” again and again, and then “You whispered Noelle’s name”... you, not Kris.

I know TF has never commented much on fans’ perceptions of Frisk and Chara, or who exactly is pulling strings in different routes. But after all this, and especially after seeing all the little winks and nods to fandom jokes in this chapter (what comes to mind: pulling everyone’s leg by seeming to have Kris attack Toriel with a knife only to reveal that pie theory was right, Susie not liking Ralsei’s real face as much as his shadowed one, Ralsei with a gun getting referenced with the ad, Kris getting a joke fixation with knives after the fans made Chara and Kris have knife obsessions as a joke), and seeing what looks like him try to correct some things (what stuck out to me was doubling down on showing that Kris is loved and valued in their family: lots of fans came away from Chapter 1 thinking that Kris was not valued as much as Asriel, but here we see that Toriel is supportive of Kris’ friendship with Susie, and it’s stated that Asriel is the one who used the crappy controller, not Kris) -

I think while he hasn’t commented directly, while he admitted to being overwhelmed by Undertale’s success, while he tends to be pretty tight-lipped about the lore (whether that’s because it’ll be addressed by future chapters or because he prefers to let fans sleuth it out), this chapter convinced me that Toby does keep tabs on fan reactions in Deltarune, so he probably does with Undertale too and would know about all The Discourse surrounding Little Mx Pink Cheeks (and in turn, popular theories like Narrator Chara... Toby if you integrate Narrator Chara into Deltarune being a borderline creepypasta and have the narrator start talking directly to the characters or to the player or the characters start talking to the narrator I will lose my damn B E A N S).

(Kris and Chara not being demonized and the narrator interacting directly with the characters were the only two things on my wishlist going in, I was fine with literally anything else happening lmao)

I even kinda think he’s going out of his way to separate Kris and the player because we didn’t get it before with Undertale, we still insisted that Frisk or Chara was the one doing it, and he’s even using Kris to show that even if this kid can be scary, maybe even mean, and maybe they’re even the Knight (with their reasons unknown), they’re still not a bad kid, they’re still funny and likable, and they still genuinely love their family and friends - which falls in line with Undertale’s cast of complex but likable people who can be antagonists and make mistakes but still aren’t truly bad people, and imo is a direct response to some people fixating on the idea that Chara was always evil because they seem scary/complicated.

... Which is a long way to say that I came out of Deltarune with my confidence fully restored about TF’s intentions with Chara and Kris. Even if he never comments on Chara directly, now I really don’t think TF thinks they’re evil or ever intended for them to be. Deltarune convinced me more than ever that Chara is meant to be complex, yes, and able to be influenced to do horrible things, but they were never intended to be as malicious or shallow as some fans insist.

TLDR:

Toby Fox read your mean fanfiction where Chara is a bad abusive serial killer no one likes, and he made Deltarune in revenge.

... Hm? Ah, you’d like me to get to the point! Right this way!

II. Undertale, Deltarune, and The Point

While no doubt some will still take the voice Noelle hears to be Chara influencing her to turn her into a murderer (I haven’t gone looking for it yet, but I’m sure it’s already a thing because I know this fandom), since it’s made too clear by the game that they can’t blame Kris for this one, I think at this point that’s just being too stubborn to consider other ideas.

If you believe in the totally made up idea used in so many fanfics that Chara is an evil spirit trying to whisper in Frisk’s ear to kill everyone, literally (for some reason) the embodiment of raising stats, and gets more control over people who have increased LV to take over their body... sure. Could be them, they did talk about moving on to the next world and all. I mean, that wouldn’t really make sense because it’s literally never implied in the actual game that Chara encourages you to kill outside of the Kill-All Run or even wants you to, certainly not as the narrator and we get no hint of them doing this as an unseen, unheard third-party either.

Not to mention they’re NOT literally possessing you because of increased LV; they don’t control you even with high LV in any Undertale route other than arguably the Kill-All, and if you fail the Kill-All and it turns into a high-body count Neutral, Chara suddenly stops using first-person narration and showing up in mirrors entirely even though they were showing themself before, the LV remains the same or even can get raised as high as LV 19, nor do they suddenly take over in any other Neutral runs. We can speculate on why (personally, I’d place this either on Chara’s mindset, such as them sinking into shock from the trauma or becoming more assertive as the player feeds their megalomania, or as a sign of Frisk’s withdrawal, leaving Chara alone in the body to take the reins and act out the player’s orders), but canonically, no, Chara does not take over due to high stats.

In fact, there’s even more evidence against this. First-person narration also exists for fleeing your battles in Undertale, even on Pacifist runs with base stats, 0 EXP, and an LV of 1. Since Chara is established to use first-person narration to refer to themself, is the only one who canonically does so, and is confirmed to be present even in all runs through their name and memories always showing up, it seems pretty likely that Chara can take control to flee battle. That means an increase in stats is not a sign of their presence or control, in Undertale or Deltarune.

The most damning blow to the idea that Chara is the voice corrupting Noelle are the lines in the fight with Spamton I mentioned. Kris called for help, but nobody came. You whispered Noelle’s name. Well hold on. If that’s Chara, shouldn’t it be “I whispered Noelle’s name”? As soon as you’ve officially started the Kill-All in Undertale, Chara starts up their “It’s me, Chara” schtick right away, right there in Toriel’s home in the first area, and if they weren’t the narrator before, they’re beginning to speak through the narration now. If the voice was Chara, surely Toby Fox knows it’d be a way bigger “oh shit” moment if the creepy scary hidden route once again switched into first-person, scaring us the same way he did before when we first saw “It’s me, Chara” and knew something was wrong; unfairly or not, their reputation as a villain is still well established and hinting to Chara’s presence with a simple “I” would drive the menace even further, if he intended for them to simply be a demon that possesses player characters when you grind enough. But it’s still just you. The player.

The Weird Route does even more to help Chara’s case than that. Not only is it made pretty clear that Kris and the player are separate, and the player is the one responsible for corrupting Noelle and making her kill... consider how similar Noelle and Chara are, in the Weird Route and the Kill-All Route.

This “voice” that “guides” them in growing strong, compelling them to kill everyone in order to fight for them, eventually driving them to murder people they know. Chara calls themself “the demon that comes when people call its name”, and you whisper Noelle’s name to have her appear to kill Spamton. Noelle’s conflicting emotions towards Kris and the voice as she is manipulated, as she becomes more violent and sadistic, as she goes into shock; does that not sound like Chara, who flipflops between holding you dear as their partner and wanting to move on to the next world together, to be together forever, and them being disgusted by your refusal to accept consequences and the perverse enjoyment you get in killing everyone again and again? Chara, who clings to their quirky narration for much of the Kill-All, but keeps slipping up, who becomes terrifyingly cold, aggressive, power-hungry, and even sadistic, yet still calls Undyne “the heroine”, still seems to still care about their locket, still has moments where they seem to falter?

Noelle does put up significantly more resistance to the voice’s commands than Chara does, and at least much more visibly shows distress and trauma. I don’t think this is a black mark on Chara’s chara-cter either, or an indication of them being more violent or cruel.

For one, while Noelle is still herself with her own soul, it is heavily implied by Chara, Flowey, and Undertale’s lore that Chara was reincarnated without their own soul, at best perhaps attached to Frisk’s (or yours): as I speculate in one of my currently unfinished theories, while monster souls are made up of love, compassion, and hope and thus Asriel was reincarnated without these qualities, it could well be that human souls are correspondingly made up of their own multiple traits, namely determination, patience, bravery, integrity, perseverance, kindness, and justice; if true, a soulless Chara would be lacking these qualities, which would make them less equipped to resist the player’s commands or to feel as torn up about it.

Also, the player has a hold on them both as “party members” to the player’s vessels, but it is also possible that the player naming Chara and having them directly attached to Frisk also gives them a stronger connection to Chara they can abuse, similar to how Kris and Frisk (as the player’s direct vessels) have much less autonomy than Kris’ party members.

(Fun observation: We know that when the thing controlling Kris forced Noelle into becoming a killer and using her to kill Berdly, Kris was horrified and shaken-up according to Susie and Ralsei. How do you think Frisk felt watching Chara be used to slaughter the Underground and then erasing the world when they’re totally corrupted?)

And lastly... look, Noelle and Chara are both minors, but Chara is significantly younger - a small child compared to Noelle’s teen. I know it’s fiction and strong wills and determination and anime is real and all, but a traumatized young child who died two violent and awful deaths back-to-back, may have literally experienced being a corpse in their own coffin/grave for who knows how long, and then came back ”confused” only to immediately start hearing a voice relentlessly commanding them to kill everyone?? I can absolutely see a traumatized kid shutting down and just going with it out of fear at first, before the LV sets in.

TLDR:

What you do to Noelle in the Weird Route is the same fucking thing you do to Chara in the Kill-All Route.

[raguna-blade]

Ok and before I forget and i Likely will and I don’t have the attention span to actually try and take this anywhere right at this precise moment but there’s one musical thing that’s likely as not a just a musical ref cause haha I can do it it’s my soundtrack, my game you can’t stop me but-

There’s this song I ran across ages ago that toby fox did also compose. 74, Sung by Itoki Hana, and I Honestly have to wonder how much of it is also supposed to link in thematically. Like this wouldn’t be the first time Toby’s done this, what with Megalovania being from 1 and then 2 different stories and each pulling a generally similar vibe and intent behind them near as I can tell (there was an essay that explained this way better but I cannot for the life of me tell you where I actually read it save the greater seas of Tumblr so you know, that’s probably lost forever)

And I’m sitting here looking at the lyrics of this song, and Where I at least hear the music parts, it is in Welcome to the City, which is the bit where it’s just Kris, The Soul and Noelle, and given the whole song and all i have to wonder if there’s any intended link.

Cause man, looking at the picture used, and then the lyrics it certainly feels like it.

Now purposes of this here analysis I suggest you go listen to the song. 74, Itoki Hana, Toby Fox should get you where you need to be. If nothing else it’s a good song.

Now probably not, but it does at least put me in the mind to look at it like it does even if it’s only more a thing i vaguely heard that sorta sounds like this sparked an idea and honestly there’s worse places to grow your thoughts.

So, in 74, the song more or less comes from the pov of the Princess in a tower, watching a brave knight ascend to rescue her, through the various traps and trials that are within the tower...That she set and put there. And she is not (or she is in addition to being) actually a princess. She’s a dragon, pretending to be a princess to lure in knights to feel a degree of validation, to feel well...Important. Valuable. Special you know?

And I guess it’s not hard to see some potential parallels going on given that we find that Kris is opening the Fountains. Or is ALSO opening the Fountains. We’ve seen one for sure, and the implication SUGGESTS that they’re the one doing it in general, but we won’t know for sure til the game’s completely out. But for now, let’s assume they’re doing them all.

With that, We have Kris the Hero fighting through a land of trial and tribulation that he made himself to do...Something. Like in the song, the Knight in question looks gallant cool and really shows their stuff, even though in the end they bit it.

So that’s something, but then, we’re still asking why is Kris doing this? It’s shown that basically any Lightner can open a Dark Fountain whenever they want (Berdly got slapped out of it like 3 times in a row, and he seemed to be doing it pretty trivially as far as difficulty was concerned. Now that was in the Dark World, so perhaps it was easier there, but the Queen didn’t even really consider Berdly Strong enough to do it, though part of that likely as not had to do with her concern for Noelle.

But like...I dunno, I go back to the Knight in all this, and that’s a position of special import in the game. It’s very actively called attention to it, and the Knight is positioned as an apocalyptic force that’s...Creating Worlds, giving life and value back to the Darkners, who were cut off from the Lightners, which has seemingly left both sides lesser. The Darkners seeming to be doomed to fade into the dark, while the Lightners are unable to interact with this world that seems to have the ability to massively improve their wellbeing.

Like, Knights are typically heroes in stories with princes and heroes and kings and queens you know? When the story takes place in a kingdom, it’s the loyal knight who, while perhaps not the main hero, is a steadfast compatriot. Well that’s the general idea right?

But the Knight is positioned as a terrible force of ruin and destruction...Except in chapter 2 here, we get the notion that creating the Dark Worlds really can be an improvement life. Indeed, the game doesn’t even seem to suggest that creating more Dark Worlds is inherently a bad thing, but there’s the critical issue of the balance between the two being off and that’s a critical problem that at least as of now doesn’t seem to be able to be addressed.

Still, if this game is keeping on with Parallels to Undertale, The Knight isn’t all bad. Hell even the Spade King wasn’t all bad and he’s pretty objectively the most evil character in the normal route of the game.

And the game really does seem to posit that the interaction between the dark world and the light world is inherently good for both of them. The Town looks Way healthier and lively in Chapter 2 than it did in 1. Susie’s Rude Stat has been dropping since go, and Even Kris, while we don’t get to see their thoughts, seems to be becoming considerably more expressive. Now admittedly pretty much every expression we do get to see from them that isn’t prompted from The Soul seems to be negative and frustrated and angry and all that, but then, I think that’s probably a better place to be than shoving everything down and being completely unresponsive and not acknowledging anything that they’re feeling, which seems to be the case whenever you start to touch on anything remotely intimate.

I mean The Soul seems to be a part of them as well as apart from them, which is confusing at the moment, but they’re capable of scarfing down a whole entire pie, slash their moms tires, and open up portals to parallel realites without it so it doesn’t seem to be something that they particularly NEED to survive or do anything.

Going back to the song though, and i suppose the most basic barebones aspect I wanna look at, is that Someone who’s Apparently In Trouble is actually the Threat, or more generally, that the Appearances Are Opposite to the Actual Reality of the situation I’m wondering.

Because last thing before I cut this off, is that We have the Queen going all in on her plan and being unaware that going through with it would lead to the end of all things, I have to wonder if the Knight is Similarly Ignorant as to what they’re actually doing.

I’m also wondering if Perhaps Asriel is perhaps actually the antagonist. Because while the game’s claim of your choices having no meaning is inherently unquestionably suspect, the game also makes it extremely clear, doubly so as of the point of chapter 2, That there are people you’re simply going to have to fight, and perhaps you’re going to have to fight them with the full intent of killing them, and that that is an option that you genuinely may need to consider. Or at least, that you may well need to destroy that relationship and cut them out of your life. Not everyone should be recruited, so to speak.

Which is advice that shows up, if my memory isn’t failing me this quickly, in the manual that Ralsei provides...And advice that, if taken to extremes as shown in the Corruption route, can cause genuine problems.

Or I suppose I guess to put this in another context, the first words of advice you’re given, that are a full on lie, in Undertale is that this is a world of kill or be killed. Asriel tells us this is a world where you do not have to kill anyone, and while the game has yet to have you actually bring the axe down on anyone in the Normal Route, it’s also extremely explicitly stated that it’s not so simple as spare everyone or fight everyone. There’s shades of grey here and you shouldn’t just ignore them. There are people you can’t just spare, you have to fight it out (and interestingly, those people do not include the secret bosses, who seem to have a greater level of understanding of the world, if also are borderline incoherent in both cases.)

I dunno. There’s more to percolate on here i think, though obviously some of this isn’t gonna be answered until we get the rest of the game.

And as a last note, there’s 7 showing up again as a recurring number so that’s...Interesting.

[friendsdontleave]

Susie Scene #10

After Ch 9

Summary: Some Dark World lore and hope?

After an adequate rest, Ralsei collects his things and walks down to the basement.

“Hello Susie,” he greets as he makes himself comfortable outside the cell, “I brought a new book today. It’s a collection of myths surrounding this land: its creation, early inhabitants, the like. Maybe I could read a couple per visit to make it last longer, not that I fear we’d run out of books anytime soon, just that we’d run out of ones that might interest you. Pretty soon my readings will be as tiresome as my lullaby.”

Susie sits in her spot, curled up into her knees. The last comment prompts a small flinch but no verbal response. Perhaps the joke was in poor taste.

“Well I suppose I’ll get to it then.” He reads the title aloud then opens its pages, narrating the first story. “Before the world, there was void.” 

It’s the most basic tale of beginnings and it’s one of the first he read alone in this castle. He could probably tell this story without the book in his hands from how often he’s flipped these pages. He finds books like this comforting, something that gives an explanation of his world, of where he came from and why he’s here.

“Void is the first true darkness, the space that fills us all. It is empty and infinite and spans across all worlds. Our world began with Light. In the Light grew form. Magic sparked and tumbled into physicality. They developed within Light’s soul, and clung to its magic. It fed and grew and Light fell weaker. That is the way of magic. The parent consumes death in exchange for birth. 

The developing world saw Light nearing its end and felt the void tugging at its own borders. It feared what would happen without Light’s protection. The void would surely tear it apart and return all to darkness. So it held on, it harnessed a small essence of Light within itself as the rest dwindled away. This tear was enough to hold its form but it couldn’t grow any further past its own borders. All growth would happen within the world and all living things of physicality would taste death regardless of whether they held children.

Additionally, in taking Light into itself, it created shadows, rifts where the void digs into the world and where the world reaches out into the void. These are the realms of darkness, and where our stories began. Each pocket holds a fountain. It fills the Dark World with the necessary elements for life, funneling in IM from the Light World to give us form. We will never be as physical as the children of Light, and because of this we will not know death as intimately as they.”

Susie remains quiet for the short duration of the first section, and Ralsei closes with the final line, “We are blessed with plentiful life but it is only with Light that we can be whole.” 

Perhaps a tad separate from the events of creation itself, but he found it a very fitting reminder. This is what he was holding onto. He gripped the Lightners as tightly as the early world held original Light itself, and were he to let go, he knows all would be consumed.

“So you can’t die?” The voice is soft in volume, but hoarse in lack of use. Ralsei had nearly forgotten his audience. Susie peeks out over her knees, face still too covered to decipher.

“No we still can. It’s just not as permanent as for Lightners. Our existence is very tentative, strung together by the slightest bits of magic and primarily composed of void. When we die, those strings are severed and we’re cast back into the expanse of mass existence. So technically, we aren’t truly gone. The elements are still there and we can be tied back together with enough willpower.”

She pulls closer into herself, silently assessing this new information.

“Though that wouldn’t be something I could do myself. Someone else would have to pull me together whether by revive mint or other forms of magic. Being alone here most of my life, it’s something that would sometimes cross my mind. If I die, no one will be here to save me.” Or to notice. “So in that way, I fear death as much as you.”

“No.”

“I’m sorry?”

Susie clears her throat, getting her voice back to its usual quality, though still much quieter than before the castle. “Kris would just put you back together. You have them under your thumb, right?”

“Um...“ Their last encounter was pleasant enough but he can’t help thinking back to the fight. They had cut him down to near zero. The intent was there, but they couldn’t finish it, not themselves. But if he were to end on some other terms, he doesn’t know they’d be too eager to bring him back. Not to mention it may not have been their own will holding back that last hit. If that something fickle inside them decided it would be more interesting to end things, he couldn’t stop them.

Susie notes his hesitance and seems much more interested, “Oh? So things aren’t too rosy in Palace Paradise, huh?”

“I- we don’t have to talk about it.”

“Your little angel acting up, what’d they do? Stay out past curfew, eat too much cake, call you funny names?”

“No it’s not that and it’s not important.”

“Was I right then? They were just playing along with you to try to escape?”

“I said we are not talking about this! And if you proceed to press the issue then you will go to your chair.”

She debates the merit in teasing him further but decides what she’s gotten is enough to grit her teeth for now. She’s not the only one with some fight in her, and if Kris still has hope of getting out then maybe she can be foolish enough to hope so too.

[heckolve]

what do you think about the undertale ost vs. the deltarune one?

ok wait actually..... i could say a lot on this... overall theres a lot of reasons why i like the undertale ost a lot more but a lot of my faults with the deltarune ost are ones i think will be resolved when its actually released in its entirety and isnt just a single chapter you know what i mean...... also personal preference. 

i was talking abut this earlier but undertale and deltarune have very different tones and themes than each other, and i do think that both of their respective osts compliment that actually. personally i like heavily story driven games and am not really a fan of games that actually have. game/fighting mechanics. deltarune absolutely behaves more like a fighting game due to its more advanced fighting mechanics and the fact that you have a party and kind of the basic leader/fighter/healer combo. also especially due to the fact that theres no clear cut genocide/pacifist runs, it dosent stress killing npcs as much like most fighting games do/as undertale did. also i love the difference in tone between the games, which i think the osts reflect well also..... undertale is all about choice and identity and interpersonal relationships and conflict resolution and the power of friendship etc. very story heavy... deltarune is extremely clear about the fact that your choices dont matter and though you may control kris’ soul, you dont Really have control over them...... its pretty heavily implied without having all that anyways considering the context of the last game. + the party feature & game mechanics take away from the singular identity aspect. but anyways im saying all that because the osts really reflect those tones for the games..... undertale has a lot of iconic pieces of music that really feel personal and extremely descriptive of the location or character they were made for. it has a video game music quality but is also very atmospheric and cinematic (?). in a way deltarune’s isnt..... i dont know how to describe it but deltarune’s ost just feels so much more Video Game-y.... 

plus i mentioned the individual themes for all the characters in undertale feeling very personal but deltarune really does not have that. it has a lot of characters but really the only one who follows up with the main trio throughout the whole chapter is lancer, unlike in undertale where you have a lot of characters staying relevant for the majority of the story. again i think this will be something that’ll be better when its released in full and theres more characters but within the chapter lancer is the one with the most recognizable theme...... which i think is also interesting because you have ralsei and susie but because of their involvement in your party and being puppeted by you i think you get a Lot less individuality from then than you would if they were npcs. 

also....... the leitmotifs h. i love leitmotifs i think theyre such an interesting way to develop a story and characters and use the senses to draw emotions from the listener and toby fox is really really good at it..... in undertale it was done so well, like. there were some melodies that definitely showed up in quite a few songs especially in the finale but the soundtrack was extensive enough to where it came out pretty subtle & was most prominent in the emotional climaxes of the story so it worked Really well. again i think this will be better once deltarune can be viewed as a whole story and has more characters/story/music to work with but i didnt like the leitmotifs in chapter one. i remember hearing about the ‘dont forget, im with you in the dark’ motif in deltarune kind of being The Theme for the game and i thought it was really cool when i noticed it in some of the finale songs for undertale.... when i actually played deltarune i dont know if it was just me but i felt like that melody was in almost every single song i was listening to and after awhile i kind of got bored of hearing it so much. u know. it didnt really feel like that motif was being used in the most significant moments or used to tie anything together it was just being thrown in wherever... and a lot. i think that one and the beginning of lancer’s theme are the most prominent melodies in the game and while i dont think lancer’s was used for any really important scenes or whatever i liked the different variations of his theme they were fun and well done & did a lot for his character. so. i still have hope for the rest of the deltarune soundtrack.... 

also im completely enamored with the majority of the undertale ost meanwhile theres only like. 3ish from the deltarune ost that i like so far..... and my favorite deltarune song is the shortest at 12 seconds...... why..... gallery is So good......

and i know sound design isnt really part of the ost but uhh im obsessed with all the gaster related sounds being used in deltarune so far like for the failing cellphone & the sound in front of the bunker..... im SO interested. also for ANOTHER HIM........ i love gaster stuff so much & fox puts it in either secretly or so subtly but..... You Know :’( he seems to be doing it a lot more prominently this game im very excited... 

so anyways. tldr; i like undertale’s way better but i objectively think the soundtracks of both games fit the tone & stories really well and that a lot of my issues with the deltarune ost will be resolved when it becomes an entire game like undertale instead of just an isolated chapter. 

[sage-nebula]

DELTARUNE

So I’ve finished one (1) playthrough of Deltarune, and as a result I figured I’d go ahead and write up my thoughts. Note that I’m actually writing this at 11:53pm on Wednesday, October 31st; I’ve just queued it to post now. This is because I’m both respectful of Toby’s wishes to wait 24 hours, but also because I want to write up my thoughts before I forget them. (And it’s already been a few hours, so I REALLY hope I don’t forget anything . . .

So! Deltarune spoilers below the cut! You’ve been warned!

First, just to get this out of the way: I firmly believe this to be an alternate universe to Undertale, rather than a prequel or a sequel. Specifically, I believe it’s an alternate universe where the monsters were never sealed underground to begin with. I have a few reasons for this line of thought:

Asriel is still alive, and seems to have grown up healthily and happily. This is the biggest reason why I believe Deltarune can’t be a prequel or a sequel to Undertale. If it were a prequel that took place before the monsters were sealed, Asriel wouldn’t have been born yet. If it was a sequel, he’d be stuck underground as Flowey. While there is a version of Asriel underground(?), we know that Toriel and Asgore’s Asriel is off at university (. . . supposedly). He grew up happy and healthy, meaning that he never died and was turned into a flower. This could only happen in an alternate universe / timeline.

If this was an alternate history where they were still sealed but Asriel grew up underground, Undyne and Alphys would know each other (and be in love), but they don’t. If you talk to Undyne about Alphys, she makes it clear that she and Alphys have never met, asking who Alphys is and then assuming that she’s committed some sort of crime. While this is setting up for a Meet Cute™ between them, it more importantly tells us that nothing that happened in Undertale happened in this universe, which is why they don’t know each other. Along those lines . . .

Sans and Papyrus have only just moved in, and have only just met the other characters. Specifically, Sans has only just met Toriel and Alphys within the past day or so (if he is telling the truth), and Papyrus has apparently never met anyone (we don’t even get to have Kris meet him :’( a tragedy). If the events of Undertale had happened, they would all already be acquainted. Since they’re not, we can assume that this is not a sequel. Moreover, it also can’t be a prequel because we know that Sans and Papyrus “just appeared one day” in Snowdin; they didn’t settle there with the other monsters, meaning that this can’t be a situation where Sans and Papyrus went with the others to be sealed underground. They came later. So, not a sequel, and not a prequel.

Snowy’s mother, Shyren’s sister, and the leader of the dog pack are all just dead, rather than amalgamates. In Undertale, monsters who had “fallen down” (i.e. were dying) were taken to Alphys, who experimented on them with Determination. This resulted in them becoming amalgamates; they survived, but melted together and became deformed. But in Deltarune, if you visit the graveyard to the southwest of town, you discover graves for these monsters (and Gerson, RIP). It appears that while they were taken to Alphys for Determination experiments in the Undertale universe, they simply died in the Deltarune one, presumably because there was no Royal Scientist to take them to this time around (given that, instead of becoming the Royal Scientist, Alphys became a teacher here instead). 

Toriel and Asgore are divorced. This cannot be a prequel, because while Toriel and Asgore did separate prior to Undertale, they separated after the banishment in Undertale’s canon. However, it also cannot be a sequel, because Asriel is alive and well. Therefore, for the two of them to still be divorced and Asriel to be alive, this has to be an alternate universe. What drove them apart this time one can only wonder, but this does tell us one thing: it wasn’t just the death of their child(ren) and their reactions thereof that drove Toriel and Asgore apart. Their marriage was never meant to last.

There are probably more things that point to this being an alternate universe rather than a prequel or a sequel, but those are the things that come to mind immediately. While I might not be exactly right about what specifically makes this an alternate universe (that it’s a world where the monsters were never banished, but instead continued to live on the surface), I still think that’s the case, and will continue to think so until proven otherwise. And honestly, I think this is the best thing Toby could have done. A prequel would have ended sadly no matter what Toby did, because the monsters would have ended up sealed underground and we’d likely have to witness the deaths of two children thanks to buttercup poisoning and awful humans. That’s a pretty downer note to end a game on, but Toby would have to if he wanted to make this a prequel. At the same time, while I’m sure there’s story potential in a sequel because I can’t imagine humanity will take the sudden freedom of monsters very well (it’s implied in Undertale’s prologue that it’s been long enough that most humans have forgotten monsters even exist, so to suddenly see a bunch of monsters running around would no doubt freak them out), a game that’s nothing but politics and peace treaties created by a child wouldn’t be very much fun to play. But an alternate universe gives Toby tons of creative freedom to make a new story, even if some of the characters are familiar because they’re alternate universe versions of themselves. This was a really brilliant move on his part (though that shouldn’t be surprising, because this is Toby Fox we’re talking about). 

Anyway, enough about that. On to other thoughts!

I still think the mysterious being that talks to us in the beginning is Gaster. It has to be Gaster. First of all, we’ve always had reason to think of Gaster as a potentially dangerous person; that he was lost to his experiment and shattered across time and space aside---that he was a brilliant scientist, and the Royal Scientist before Alphys aside---the Riverperson tells us to “beware the man who speaks in hands.” That’s not specifically about Gaster, but I seem to remember something in the game’s code that suggests it’s probably a reference to him. The Riverperson told us to beware Gaster, and we should have listened, but our curiosity got the better of us. Curiosity killed the cat? No. Curiosity killed the humans. That said, we don’t have proof that it was Gaster yet, but I . . . I still believe . . . (Plus, the original pallet for our vessel was the Gaster Follower pallet, wasn’t it? HMMM . . .)

That said, the being that possesses Kris at the end is very obviously Chara. The red eyes, the smile, the knife . . . all of those things point to Chara. And it’s not that much of a surprise, in a way, because the shirt that Kris wears has the same colors as Chara’s shirt (and their hair is the same, et cetera), but I also have to wonder why. Why did this happen? I’m assuming it happened when Kris noticed their SOUL behaving strangely at the end, while standing in front of the fountain, but I don’t get why. I’m wondering if maybe I made something wrong, if I made a wrong decision, if I made this happen somehow despite that I didn’t kill any monsters (Susie did, once, but not by my will), and I never did a genocide run in Undertale at all, much less on this computer where I don’t even have the game downloaded . . . except . . .

Thinking about it, I don’t think this is something I (or anyone else) did wrong---I think that we were all headed toward this ending, provided all endings lead back to the town and Toriel’s house in the end. And the reason why I think this is that we were told twice that our choices don’t matter. We were told this by Susie when she stopped Kris from answering at the start, but we were also told this by the mysterious being at the very start of the game when he discarded the options we made previously. The only one who seemed to counter the idea that our choices don’t matter is Ralsei, but while I haven’t done multiple playthroughs to confirm, I think that might only impact what happens during the showdown with the king. If you’re kind to all the monsters, they come and save you, and if you’re not, they . . . don’t? I’m not sure, I’ve only done one playthrough. But it might be that your choices only have impact in the dark kingdom; in the surface world, your choices don’t. So while you can effect how your last moments in the dark kingdom turn out, you can’t affect the ultimate ending where Chara takes over Kris’ body and rips out their soul to stuff it in the birdcage.  I still want to know why that happened, though, even if it wasn’t through any fault of mine.

On that note, the anagrams. “Delta Rune” is an anagram of “Undertale” and we been knew about that for years now. Ralsei is an anagram of Asriel, and my friend SB pointed this out to me because I didn’t notice it at first (and she was RIGHT ON THE MONEY HOLY SHIT). But Kris . . . it looks like an anagram of “Frisk”, but it’s missing the F, and while “Frisk” does have more consonants than it’s easy to make an anagram from, I don’t think Toby simply tossed the F off without thought. I think he did it because while “Kris” can be an anagram of “Frisk” without the “f,” it’s also an anagram of “Risk”, meaning danger. There’s a risk of danger with Kris, and we encounter that danger at the very end, when Chara takes over. But why? Why did Chara take over? I need answers, Toby! 

Speaking of answers that I need, I need to know what’s going on with Asriel. Asriel was supposedly off at university, yet he’s also very clearly Ralsei. Yet although she appears shocked, Susie doesn’t call him out on this, and you’d think she’d know given that she knows Kris’ mother, and therefore she has to be at least familiar with the sight of Asriel. Moreover, there’s no indication that Kris reacts at all, which is particularly strange since, although Kris is mute, Susie could have noticed Kris’ surprise. But there is none---there isn’t any reaction at all. So what’s going on there? Why is Asriel in the dark kingdom if he’s also off at university? What---what is going on?? 

Back on the Chara topic for a moment: I checked the mirror both at the start of the game and at the end. The flavor text was “it’s just you” both times. Nothing changed. So why did Chara take over Kris?? 

I love Susie. Really, all the characters ended up endearing (I would die for Ralsei / Asriel), but I loved Susie’s development. Toby does such a wonderful job of creating characters, and he really knocked it out of the park with Susie. I really love how it wasn’t spelled out that the reason she behaves so aggressively is because she’s lonely and no one wants to befriend her, so she pushes them away so she can act like it doesn’t hurt her, but rather shown with how she reacted to befriending Lancer, and how she felt when he wanted to be like her, and how hurt she was by his seeming betrayal. That we even got to see her development by her eyes becoming visible in the end was icing on the cake. Susie was a brilliant character, and I loved every bit of her development. Even in a game as short as this one, she really shined. ♥

Burgerpants continues to be an absolute fucking delight, and I love that he was apparently best friends with Asriel before Asriel went off to college. If there isn’t tons of fanart of the driving around town “picking up chicks” I’m going to be sorely disappointed.

Both of Lancer’s dads suck ass and I’m so glad that one is in permanent time out and the other is going to shape up his behavior (albeit for the wrong reasons, but we’ll take what we can get.

The gameplay is FANTASTIC. I love, love, love that it’s still recognizably Undertale, but that Toby has also made enough changes to it that it feels like a new experience. Because you know, that’s a problem with some game series: Either the gameplay is too samey and it feels boring, or it’s so radically different that fans of the original can’t enjoy it. But I feel that Toby struck the perfect balance with Deltarune, and I really love it. 

The music is fantastic as well. I love the remixes of certain songs (THE UNDERTALE LEITMOTIF IN THE SAVE SCREEN MUSIC, HHHHHH), but the original songs are also great. From the battle theme, which is a bop, to that end credits music . . . is that Temmie singing? If so, her voice is BEAUTIFUL. And if not, whoever the singer is has a beautiful voice. I need to watch the credits again, both to hear the lyrics again (there’s something really soul chilling about the song ending on something akin to “I’m here with you” after seeing Chara take over Kris, gotta say), but also to pay actual attention to the credits this time, and just to hear the music again.

ALL OF THE CAMEOS HAD ME SO HHHHHHH IN THE BEST WAY!!! And the things that we learned about them! Actual, English language confirmation that Sans is the older brother! In-game confirmation that “Azzy” is in fact Asriel’s canonical nickname! SEEING MONSTER KID HAVING GROWN UP TO BE MONSTER TEEN!! All these things are so freaking great. But also, where is Napstablook? Because that was clearly Mettaton in the ghost house. If that’s Mettaton . . . where is Napstablook? Where are they, Toby?? 

I made this and everyone was wrong about it, it’s beautiful:

There’s so much more I feel like I should say, but my mind is still buzzing and jumping all over the place. All I have to say is this: When I learned it was a demo, I expected it to take me thirty minutes, tops. But even allowing for the fact that I had to take a thirty minute break and also pause periodically to do work things, Deltarune took me my entire eight hour shift at work. Toby was right to call this “chapter one” at the end; even if it’s not completely polished yet, it already feels like a full (albeit short and with a cliffhanger) game. That Toby blessed us with this for free when there are plenty of indie developers that would have charged at least five bucks for this just goes to show how generous and kind he is to his fans. I mean, to be fair, the man has made a boatload of money off Undertale, to the point where he probably doesn’t have to make another game if he doesn’t want to (which might also be why this is so goddamn good; he didn’t make it because he needs the money, he made it because he wants to make it), so it’s not like he necessarily needs us to pony up the cash. I won’t be surprised if there’s not a Kickstarter for Deltarune (but maybe there still will be, idk). But he still could have charged, and we still would have paid, but he didn’t and so we didn’t have to. He did that because he genuinely wants us to play this game, and he really appreciates us as his fans. I mean, I’ve never spoken to him, so maybe I’m reading way too much into his actions, but this, combined with the fact that he’s never shamed or acted embarrassed of the fandom, leads me to believe that Toby Fox truly respects, cares about, and appreciates his fanbase, and that makes me even happier to support him as a creator.

I can’t wait for chapter two (or the full game), whenever it comes out. I expect it’ll be a while from now, but who knows; maybe Toby is farther along on the project than we know, and we’ll see it around Christmas time. Either way, this is the best Halloween present I could have gotten, and I’m so grateful. Toby Fox is brilliant, and I’m so happy that I decided to pick up Undertale three years ago (and that I purchased the collector’s edition for Switch despite already having it on Steam, and that I dressed as Chara for Halloween today---something which, mind you, I’d been planning for over a month, ever since the CE for Switch was announced and I preordered it, knowing I’d be getting the locket; truly, it was fate that caused Toby to release Deltarune on a day I was already cosplaying as Chara). 

I love this series, I love Toby Fox’s creations, and I knew I was right to be impatient for the day Toby would announce he was working on a new project. I knew he wouldn’t disappoint, and I’m so, so happy I was right about that. ♥

[therealnotta]

man i love the idea that gaster just encrypts his notes in wingdings bc that really seals the fact that sans was one of the people he was talking to in his letter

(this is a decently-sized tangent so the rest is going under the cut)

Like, it does throw up into the air who the other one was; imo it's pretty clear that gaster is sans/papyrus' dad, so it makes sense that he taught sans wingdings, but alphys?? the fanon other person the note was written for?? Did he teach her wingdings for the purpose of having these encrypted notes?? If you break into sans' lab (he's ok with it dw) you find stuff written in a language you can't decipher, so Sans probably still writes his research notes like that, but we don't see anything hinting towards alphys being in a similar boat

(also, hate the theory that the reason why you can't read sans' notes is because is handwriting is so bad. you literally read his handwriting perfectly fine with the whole sock joke thing. and also "don't forget")

Speaking of "don't forget," that HAS to be a picture of gaster and two other people, we're all agreed on that, right?? Sans is the only person who remembers gaster because a) his research is focused on timelines, i'm sure he recognized something there and b) he has that child's drawing in his lab

"ah but maybe the three people are suzie, ralsei, and kris!!!" yeah okay maybe, but it could be literally anyone if we start thinking like that so just go along with this okay?? because if it's gaster, then the song at the end of deltarune ch. 1 is a LOT more fun to look at:

When the light is running low And the shadows start to grow And the places that you know Seem like fantasy There's a light inside your soul That's still shining in the cold With the truth The promise in our hearts Don't forget I'm with you in the dark

Like, first of all, to me this is referencing why Kris isn't supposed to be out at night (and maybe why Undyne never makes it to your house???) It's written as a positive thing, but, like, gaster is a creepy dude and based on what happens when you go to his bunker in ch 2 he's practically a creepypasta in-universe (and kris KNOWS something, something they either won't tell us or don't want us to know. I'm still holding to "gaster is 'helping' kris the same way he 'helped' jevil and spamton and that the reason why spamton neo's fight makes kris so upset is because they realize that they're not going to be able to get out of this)

But like... if you're thinking about it in terms of sans and his note, you've got a scientist who accidentally got himself erased from everyone's memories and then his son, who is somehow still remembering thanks to a drawing. i don't know, having the phrase "Don't forget, I'm with you in the dark" in this final song that closes out the chapter just feels like it means something there, you know? we know already that gaster is watching everything, he's just kinda... in a bajillion pieces so things are a struggle for him + no one remembers he exists, anyway. he IS there, he IS in the dark. man.

[sapphireflame]

I posted 857 times in 2021

70 posts created (8%)

787 posts reblogged (92%)

For every post I created, I reblogged 11.2 posts.

I added 116 tags in 2021

#deltarune - 23 posts

#youtube - 16 posts

#art sharing - 15 posts

#sonic the hedgehog - 15 posts

#lilo and stitch - 13 posts

#sonic unleashed - 7 posts

#kris - 7 posts

#meme - 7 posts

#world flipper - 7 posts

#digimon - 6 posts

Longest Tag: 110 characters

#so basically what i'm going for is the angle that sonic's a bit too used to his typical role in foiling eggman

My Top Posts in 2021

#5

13 notes • Posted 2021-06-07 00:47:52 GMT

#4

So, it's pretty obvious that Toriel is gonna be the chapter 3 guest protag. Now, if a weird route is done for this chapter, I can imagine it would probably be done via an abuse of her instinct to protect her child. That said, if it was me, I'd probably lock it out if chapter 2's weird route has already been cleared. Noelle's sudden aversion to Kris, after all, is bound to be notable small-town news, and I can imagine it would (whether she consciously realizes it or not) raise just enough of a red flag in her head not to fall for it - though she'd surely be devastated at the attempt.

And, of course, there's Undyne. I think that, even with a badge and uniform instead of a suit of armor and magic spears, she's still the Spear of Justice deep down. As such, I can definitely see her quickly comprehending no matter what that Darkners are just as full of life as any Lightner. And as such, if one chooses the above path, she'd treat the mass-murder of Darkners with the same seriousness as if it was happening to Hometown's own. Besides, as far as she'd know, there's nothing stopping the responsible party from doing the same to Hometown if they're allowed to arrive there.

22 notes • Posted 2021-11-14 19:49:11 GMT

#3

Watch "FRIDAY NIGHT FUNKIN' mod EVIL BOYFRIEND vs Corrupt SKID n PUMP" on YouTube

26 notes • Posted 2021-02-01 22:48:01 GMT

#2

So I just imagined something. Eventually, it is discovered that there at least appears to be a "good" version of the salt route, but it's as obstuse within the salt route as the salt route itself is within the main game. In fact, it feels enough like you're forcing the game's hand that for a long time people are genuinely unsure of whether it's intentional or an oversight. You get to interact with your teammates, Spamton is on good terms with the Addisons, it genuinely seems like the perfect route!

But, for some reason, Ralsei is worried about those keys. They're not what Spamton thinks they are, he says. And his worry only grows the more of them you collect, until at one point it outgrows his desire to make you feel good, and he begins to actively obstruct your progress in collecting the last one. You gotta think way outside the box to get past this.

And finally, it's done. He has them all, and he uses them. Finally, he has the keys to his freedom! But, once they're used, he dies just like when you cut Neo's strings. Worse, the keys somehow start a chain reaction which shuts down the fountain while you're still in its world!

You wake up in Castle Town. Their fountain is noticeably less active, too. Ralsei, having waited for you to wake up, tells you the news: the Castle Town portal has ceased to function. The others all know they're stuck there, but he couldn't find it in himself to tell them that your actions are what caused it. Reluctantly, he tells you that your room is ready, and leaves. At this point, a message box appears, and the game softlocks upon it:

115 notes • Posted 2021-10-11 20:19:47 GMT

#1

When even editing your save and breaking the game keeps her in character

2161 notes • Posted 2021-10-04 00:05:47 GMT

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