#real people don’t queerbait

[undedkat]

I gotta admit it’s really fucking gross to theorize about people’s sexuality and gender. And that includes celebrities and dead people. It’s gross to give real people labels for them.

[onioneyez]

*

[cringefaildiaz]

Don't get we wrong, I feel hopeful too, specially with the whole network change because it means the series has an actual shot of going back to the way it used to be. I feel like lately the emergencies don't have that spark anymore, so I'm looking forward to see what ABC does with them. Also, let's cross our fingers and think that they'll actually give a damn about promo and they'll use (at least in social media) what attracts more attention... I mean, if the answer is a couple of firefighters that are raising a child together, I wouldn't mind.

However, what makes me mad is that by the time they were working on the finale they weren't sure if they were going to come back or not. From what it looks like, all the characters will get a sort of happiesh?) ending just in case, because again, the ABC move back then was not a sure thing.

They did that with The Resident. Sure, at first it was supposed to be a season finale, but they still did an ending that could be interpreted as both options: season finale or series finale. Well, it was cancelled so at the end they at least got a chance to leave the characters in a good place.

That's what will happen with 911 this season, I believe, because after almost six years the show at least deserved a decent ending if for one reason or the other they were not coming back.

My point is, we know that it's not going to be an open ending, and that all the characters will be left in a good place. I know there are a lot of possibilities, but we are talking about miss Kristen Reidel, it wouldn't surprise me if Buck and Eddie end this season with Natalia and Marisol, representing a "traditional" conclusion for both characters.

It wasn't hard to leave them single, if she truly didn't want Buddie to happen, but she just had to bring two random characters for the last four episodes of the season, right? If I follow her previous patterns, what will happen is that for the general audience, Buck and Eddie will end in "heathy" relationships with Natalia and Marisol, but they will share a significant moment together that's up to interpretation for the internet. Classic queerbaiting behavior me thinks.

I'm aware that now we are far from losing the war, especially if we consider that ABC has a different target audience and that they actually tend to listen to them. So, Buddie truly has a chance of happening now.

At the end, what I'm trying to say is, I feel optimistic for the ABC move, but I'm also frustrated because if that had been the series ending, that woman would have given a poor conclusion to Buck and Eddie just because yolo?) There was no reason to have those two random characters with them.

Buddie has a second chance, but I hope and pray to the universe that ABC will realize what they have in their hands and even if *she stays, they will overule her bad takes, not only on Buddie, but for the show in general, that move was not a cheap one. If they really want for the series to last, changes need to be made.

It's also sad to think that if they had stayed at FOX or if they had cancelled the series, we never really had a chance to win, huh. Homophobia will always prevail, no matter what.

The thing with this, anon, is that mostly I think it's a really fair reading of what's been going on. I just read the information we have really differently.

I definitely agree with you that the emergencies have been meh for a while now, but to me that's just a symptom of being 6 seasons deep into a procedural; a new network might breathe a little more life into it, and I hope it does, but I've never watched a show through a network switch so I'm pretty 🤷🏻‍♀️ on how much it's gonna affect the actual content. Def hoping for more promo though.

I get what you're saying about all the character's getting a "happy-ish" ending because they didn't know about season renewal but....isn't that always how it is? Like, I don't personally see much of a difference between where it seems they're gonna leave off 6x18 than any of the other finales we've had.

And I get why a finale where one or both of the boys are in a relationship with a woman would be disappointing if we're reading it from a "they thought this might be the last episode they were ever making" angle (but I am BEGGING someone to show me what KR has said or done that makes y'all believe she hates buddie. Because I was watching casually through most of s5, I missed all that. And from the show itself, I don't get that impression at all. I am genuinely asking PLEASE i need context). But, while I've always been a buddie girlie, 6b is literally the first time I've ever thought they might actually do it. And I've been really confident since 6x13 and the interview about the couch being in play until the very last scene of the season (and still am) that the closing shot of this season is gonna be the three boys on the Diaz couch. It's just the only thing I see as a possible resolution. Not to say you can't read that as a "open for interpretation" fan service moment, but until I know exactly why people think KR is fundamentally opposed the idea of buddie together, I'm gonna be reading it the way the text tells me to.

Because while I've become a bit of a buddie truther in 6b, they're not in a place where getting together by the end of the season would make....any sense. A lot of people disagreed with me on that, but that's been my stance since like, early s6. Just cuz there was no development for them in the first half of the season at ALL, and we knew how jam packed 6b was gonna be with other plotlines with other characters. They've got a lot of growing to do before buddie canon would even be satisfying imo. I just really believe we might be on that track now.

And with that in mind, here's my perspective on the ending IF they were writing it thinking they might never write another episode again: Buck can and should end up alone at the end of the season. He should really concretely know what he's looking for, in the way he didn't when he dumped Taylor. Having Buck explore the opportunity to date someone who is fascinated by his experiences but not actually interested in him is a great way to do that, imo. Him walking away from that and realizing he needs to find someone who will, in Oliver's words, meet him where he's at. I really cannot see Natalia being relevant beyond the finale at all, and if I'm wrong, I'm gonna start seriously questioning the writers, because they've told us she's not it for him (like, even my friends who watch the show very casually were screaming "NOOOOO!!!" at the screen every time she was mentioned in 6x15).

Eddie's more complicated though. Let's say, hypothetically, they realized midway through shooting 6b that renewal wasn't likely with Fox, and they didn't know whether or not they'd be picked up by another network. Eddie's been on this little journey of self discovery about wanting a partner, and has accepted the fact that he's lonely. Ending the show with Eddie in his single status quo would be sad as hell for the GA! We have to remember, we are not the only ones watching this show, and the vast majority are not seeing buddie as romantic options for each other. That can change, I really hope it does change, I am optimistic that it WILL change; but it hasn't yet. If they were trying to wrap things up nicely, with everyone in a pretty good spot, I can see why shoving relatively-underutilized Eddie with a nice girl would be a good way to do that. Easy to undo if they got a s7, but also a lot easier to convince the GA of a love interest for Eddie being good for him, just because he's not as big of a deal to the show (which I hate. I love Eddie I want him to have the world. But Buck is the main character on this show, let's be real)

That's not to mention that this is all speculation; we don't have any idea what's gonna happen with these two women. I'm standing pretty firm in my belief that they won't end the season in relationships, but I could be wrong. And if I'm wrong about Eddie, I can see why they'd make that choice and I'm not even a little mad at it. If I'm wrong about Buck, and he ends up in a clearly doomed relationship with Natalia, I'm less cool with that, but I can see the opportunities for s7 and assume that they were working under the assumption that they'd get a renewal somewhere. If Buck ends up in a seemingly perfect and happy relationship with Natalia, my faith in the writers is gonna plummet, not because queerbaiting, but because they told us it was doomed in 6x15, and it would make it clear to me that the writers don't even know what kind of stories they want to tell on a micro, episode to episode level. But I really can't imagine that happening.

[1960z]

as someone who was forced out as trans I cannot overstate how traumatic being forced to come out is, a year and a half later I’m still unpacking that shit in therapy. I cannot even imagine how awful it is as a public figure. I truly hope kit connor is okay and if you think a celebrity, or anyone for that matter owes you an explanation of their sexuality fuck you.

[annarubys]

i have got to stop seeing harry styles queerbaiting discourse on the dash i’m so serious

[robinsversion]

The people upset over Taylor Swift naming her song after a color have the same energy as the people mad that a mermaid is black. I said what I said, argue with the wall.

[thebookworm0001]

Y’all did not just force a teenager to publicly out themselves

[millllenniawrites]

psst... real people can't queerbait

[nicholasnelsons]

if you think that you are entitled to know a celebrity’s sexuality, block me. if you think you are entitled to know anyone’s sexuality, block me. if you constantly throw around the word queerbait when you don’t even know what that word is, block me. if you think real people with real lives and real feelings are capable of queerbaiting, block me. if you think that you are owed something just because you are a fan of a certain piece of media or actor in the spotlight, block me. and also fuck you

[elkshed]

I think my only addition to the “celebrities queerbaiting” discourse is that people are approaching it like when fandoms used to try and figure out if YouTubers were gay. Except they’re using that framing for Taylor Swift, Harry Styles etc.

Taylor Swift and Harry Styles are not a couple of random 20-somethings with a popular YouTube channel who occasionally make references to their personal lives, or one random actor from an indie TV show. They are international, multi-billion dollar celebrities - some of the richest people alive today. Their lives are a brand - they themselves are a brand - because what they do and how people receive them is worth millions and millions of dollars. There are thousands of people who profit off of their continued successes, and who are working extremely hard to maintain that success. Everything that the public sees about them has been tracked, focus-grouped, analyzed, and edited for maximum brand appeal and engagement.

Harry Styles appearing in multiple fashion magazines in genderfluid outfits, showing up on red carpets with pink feather boas, promoting progressive stuff on his tours, is extremely specific and targeted work on behalf of his huge management team to cash in on how trendy and harmlessly popular queer culture is right now. If enough people speculate that Taylor Swift’s new album has a secret lesbian love song in it, that will drive record sales. Anyone who is able to capture the attention and wallets of the LGBTQ community - which is currently wealthier and has more social clout overall than it ever has in history - is going to profit off of it.

Maybe Harry really is bisexual or whatever, and genuinely wants to wear badly-fitting dresses in Vogue. Maybe Taylor Swift is secretly a lesbian and is hiding it in case being a rich, femme, thin, white wlw is too dangerous (?). But even if they, the humans, are innocent of actively queerbaiting their audiences, the agencies, corporations, and enormously wealthy beneficiaries of his brand are. Because that’s what queerbaiting actually is: corporations profiting off of dangling queerness above regular, queer consumer’s heads. Just like the individual script writer sitting in the writer’s room of a TV show isn’t actively trying to queerbait the audience because it’s fun for her. But the directors and boards of national and international production companies that employ her have billions of dollars to ensure that their show returns the maximum amount of profit. And if queerness is profitable, so be it.

[grapelights]

the whole kit connor situation is literally so. chronically online queer people are genuinely setting their own rights like 30 years back in time

[scarrletmoon]

okay i know the Discourse™️ has been going on for way too long at this point, but

i think some people outside of the OFMD fandom don’t actually get why we’re particularly annoying about this show

OFMD is not the first queer show to ever exist. if anything, it's a late entry in decades of queer media. over a year and a half since the first few episodes aired, everyone knows that OFMD is queer. that doesn't make it particularly special

but back in March? this is the trailer that dropped in February of 2022, 2 weeks before the premier. if you're used to seeing queer chemistry in shows that aren't intended to be queer, you might see the hints between Ed and Stede here. but to most people? it's just a silly little pirate comedy. just guys being dudes. the trailer doesn't even hint at the other 2 canonical queer relationships in the show -- the closest it gets suggesting romance is the music and the pink in the poster

so when people watched this show in March 2022, they went into it expecting subtext and nothing else. to them, it was like watching Sherlock or Supernatural or Merlin in the 2010s. if you were in any of those fandoms -- especially Sherlock and Supernatural -- you know what it was like; constant jokes at our expense, being mocked for creating explicit fanwork, made fun of by the creators and within the show itself. if we saw queer subtext, that was our problem. this was a time when you pretended NOT to be in fandom, for fear of ridicule. we kept our fanwork to ourselves, we DID NOT share it with the cast, and we accepted that our favourite ships would probably never be canon. maybe one day, if we were lucky, we'd have a show where the subtext wasn't mockery as much as deliberate foreshadowing -- but that had to be YEARS away

right?

OFMD was never billed as a queer show, not in the beginning. there was no LGBTQ+ tag on (HBO) Max, it wasn't on anyone's list of upcoming queer shows in 2022, it flew under the radar through most of its first season. this was a show about pirates, and sure, some of them were queer. but not the LEADS. if you think they're romantically involved, that's must be fandom brain poisoning

except the 9th episode aired, and they kissed. and the show said "you're not crazy for thinking they have chemistry because they really do. it's been a romance this whole time". and in the 10th episode, Stede realizes that he's in love

(not mandating you watch this clip if you don't care for the show, but there's something that feels particularly earth shattering about no one saying the word gay but knowing that Stede's realizing he is, that it's completely unambiguous and explicit in a way that only straight romances are usually allowed to be)

this is why people freaked out about this show. no one knew. even the creator, David Jenkins, was surprised when WE were surprised that it was gay for real -- he set out to write a love story, using all the tried and true beats of a rom com. he'd never even heard of the term queerbaiting. he looked at historical Blackbeard and Stede Bonnet and thought "oh, there's something here" and just...wrote that, with very little fanfare, like it was inevitable. like it was obvious. of course Jim and Pam end up together. of course Buttercup and Westley end up together. what kind of disappointing ending would it be if You've Got Mail ended with the main characters just going their separate ways?

so of course Ed and Stede are in love

look, i get it. we're annoying and won't shut the fuck up about this show that seems mediocre at best. i watched the whole thing back in march, thought "huh, that was cool" and was sure that i'd forget about it in a few days

an hour after looking at fanart on twitter, i was lost in the fucking sauce

there's just so much to unpack from a mere 10 episodes. it covers racism, toxic masculinity, gender expression, sexuality, trauma and abuse. and i don't think we should overlook the fact that the non-white characters in this show get to be fully human in a way i haven't seen in my favourite shows in recent memory

additionally, most OFMD are 25 or older. we're not people who've been spoiled by queer rep, who don't get how hard it used to be, how you'd have to grovel for scraps, how shipping and fanfiction was a way to find queer rep where we thought there never would be. we've been here. we're annoying about this show because for a lot of us, it's the first time we've been treated like our queerness isn't an anomaly that needs to be relegated to its own section, that needs to be praised for the bare minimum of acknowledging that we exist. it's not pulling punches to avoid scaring away a straight audience. it just is.

OFMD for me is like when i watched Black Panther for the first time and realized that this is what white people felt all the time. have there been other black superhero movies? of course! does Disney fucking suck? BOY does it. but that was the first time i got to sit in a movie theater and watch a mainstream film that looked at Africa and said "look at how beautiful you are, exactly as you are"

and idk. i think that's really cool

[barzfrommarz]

since pride month is coming up remember

flag discourse is not real

slur discourse is not real

lesboy discourse is not real

mspec discourse is not real

trans men/transmascs are queer and we deserve a safe space

afab non binary people are not women lite

amab non binary people are still non binary

companies don’t give a shit about us. Do not praise them (esp since they are backing down bc of conservatives)

asexuals and aromantics are real people who are queer

The A in lgbtqia+ doesn’t not stand for ally. It stands for Asexual, Aromantic and Agender (and any other A label)

stop excluding masculine queer people

Xenogenders and Neoprnouns are valid

Xenogenders and Neopronouns hurt no one or make us look bad and don’t make transphobes hate us any more than they already do

Bisexuals can be in guy/girl relationships (and so on)

Queer platonic relationships are valid

Cishet/Allies are allowed at pride (seriously I saw a tweet from some idiot saying you can’t bring your cis partner to pride)

Real people cannot queerbait. Stop using this as a tool to (intentionally or not) force people to come out

A couple looking cishet or heteronormative does not mean they are

Trans men/Transmascs don’t owe you masculinity

trans women/transfems don’t owe you femininity

Anyone under the Nonbinary umbrella doesn’t owe you androgyny

Uplift Disabled/Neurodivergent/Non white queer/trans voices

Don’t forget about the Queer and Trans people being bombed in Palestine.

Cops aren’t allowed anywhere near pride. All Cops Are Bastards

Zionism,Racism,Antisemitism,Abelism etc is no welcome in the queer community

People who are still in the closet/not out are still part of our community and shouldn’t be forced to come out or be excluded

that’s all I can think of rn. Happy almost pride month 🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍🌈

if you can and it’s safe, consider attending IRL pride events. Stay safe!

[inawickedlittletown]

No Queerbaiting Here

A long time ago…I’m talking May of 2021, I wrote a meta post about queerbaiting. Essentially an essay. I wrote it right before the S4 finale of 9-1-1 aired because I was frustrated by Buddie fans calling Queerbait entirely like the boy that cried wolf. I still stand by it. Sort of. 

Now, even back then I was pretty clear about how 50/50 I was on Buddie ever going canon. (Maybe not in that post but certainly elsewhere) But, I shipped Buddie then and wrote a lot of fic and meta and participated in fandom. I never said it couldn’t happen…I just would never be bothered if it didn’t.

Where we stand now: It’s not going to happen. 

And where I stand now: fully immersed in Bucktommy. And what’s more, I am more than perfectly happy about Buck and Tommy staying together and going the long-run. Although I can still look at Buddie and think it’s a cute ship, I just don’t want it in canon. I would not be satisfied if the show went that way. But what’s more if Buck and Tommy don’t work out, that would be disappointing, but I’d be okay as long as they got to be happy. There is, after all, always fanfiction. 

So, I wanted to revisit this concept a bit now that Buck has been confirmed as Bisexual and now that he is in a relationship with a man. Not Eddie. Tommy. And somehow, some Buddie fans are still crying queerbait because their ship is not canon. That’s not how it works. Also…shipping works outside of canon, that’s the whole point of shipping. 

To reiterate from my original post on queerbaiting, here’s the definition from wikipedia:

“Queerbaiting is a marketing technique for fiction and entertainment in which creators hint at, but then do not actually depict, same-sex romance or other LGBTQ representation. They do so to attract a queer or straight ally audience with the suggestion of relationships or characters that appeal to them, while at the same time attempting to avoid alienating other consumers.” 

Here’s where I stand: Buddie was abandoned a long time ago. If it was ever a real possibility, we won’t ever know. What we do know is that Oliver was aware that at one point he had given them the go-ahead to make Buck Bi. Whether this was by putting Buck and Eddie together or having Buck realize this another way, we just don’t know that. We don’t have that information and nor will it probably ever be provided to us. Narratively, I know that a lot of fans figured the timing of it fit with S4 and that particular finale but we really just don’t know despite what happened in the finale.

I found that interesting looking back at my own post from back then and the discussion that followed where some fans felt that the way the finale went would determine if Buddie would be another queerbait ship. (I think most people agreed after the will scene that it wasn’t queerbait because it did leave a kernel of hope that Buddie might still happen). 

And yeah, I guess you could argue that the network deciding not to go the route of a queer storyline points to missed opportunity. That doesn’t then mean that any queerbaiting occurred or that any fans are owed anything just because something that was set up or that the writers were writing towards was then scrapped by the network. Is it a shame that it didn’t happen in whatever way they wanted to play it out, sure, but only because Buck would have been confirmed queer earlier. In the same vein isn’t it nice that we have a confirmed Bisexual Buck now? That the show managed to bring it back to that.

A Buck that is happy and free and that has realized something so monumental about himself? Isn’t it nice that all the queer coding that Buck as a character has received since the start of the show is actually finally not just queer coding but full on character development? That we can look back at the show and see all the things Buck did around other men for exactly what they were. 

When Tommy first returned to 9-1-1 in S7, I think a lot of us were excited by the spoilers about Buck and Tommy because of Bi Buck, but also because this was the thing that could lead to Buddie. 

And then…then Tommy was actually on my screen and I doubted it. I actually thought maybe the spoilers were wrong and this was about Eddie and Tommy? That episode flipped things in such an expertly way that by the time Tommy and Buck were sharing a kiss for the first time I was right there with Buck. On a second watch, it is all there. Buck was never jealous because his friend was ignoring him. He was jealous because his best friend had the attention of the guy whose attention he wanted for himself. The writing on that was perfect and no amount of twisting it can change what happened on screen. 

Buck was not jealous because of Eddie. Tommy was never interested in more than friendship with Eddie. And Buck and Tommy have nothing to do with Buddie. Tommy is not a stepping stone, a way for Buck to be ready to then embark on a relationship with Eddie. That’s both disrespectful to Tommy and Buck, but just not what the story being told on the show is doing. 

The storyline is monumental. Having a big strong guy, a firefighter, figure out his sexuality in his thirties is such good storytelling and add to that Tommy. Someone that we already know, who already works as a first responder, and who can show up and wow Buck in such a way that he realizes something about himself? This is what I’ve always wanted. Because guess what, Buck never questioned his sexuality before this. Not when he met Eddie and not when he met anyone else, not until Tommy. 

Going into the new season we know a few things and one of those is that Buck and Tommy are thriving. The media coverage talks about them as a solid couple, it talks about Buck having someone to turn to and complain to. It talks about how they are still in the getting to know each other phase and I love that for them. I love how they are being treated and described and I can’t wait to see what plays out for them and how much of the build up of their relationship we may get to actually see. 

Do you know what the media and the show never talked about outwardly like this? Buddie. Whenever it came up it was always brushed aside in a way that was respectful to fans and what they saw, but without ever confirming or hinting that the show would ever go there. They never queerbaited anyone with Buddie, what they have done is say “yeah…we know what you see” and then turned around and given us a Buck and Eddie friendship and Buck kissing Tommy, going on a date with Tommy, and thriving with Tommy. 

So, no queerbaiting here on the show where half of the major canon pairings are queer. It’s actually more like some fans baiting other fans with theories and headcanons that just don’t fit.

[certifiablyinsanez]

I am immensely enjoying the attitude I’m seeing from the fans of Dead Boy Detectives. Because the fan base is full of queer people who likely grew up in a world with zero representation aside from queer-coded villains or queerbaiting. As a natural side effect of that, people tended to go feral if a ship didn’t turn out a certain way. It was torture, because it felt like a bunch of hurt kids were trying to hold the hands of those making media; like toddlers trying to steer a giant to just listen to them for once. And it didn’t work for a very long time. The lines between queerbaiting, canon relationships, and all the messes of human interaction in general blurred. It causes some to have knee jerk reactions when it comes to queer media.

But with DBD, everyone seems to be in agreement that it would not only be fine, but still a good show, if Edwin and Charles didn’t end up together. Because after enough years, queer people grew up and started making things themselves, producing, acting, etc. We don’t have to yank and pull. We’ve finally been seen. Sure we love the get togethers and love but in real life things can be messy. Many queer people experience unrequited feelings, something that would usually be painful to watch but DBD handled it so gracefully that we’re all pleased with the outcome. Glorious.

[milkvanissonothappening]

Hey Stranger Things writers! So it actually is homophobic to leave a gay ship intentionally ambiguous and up in the air to get gay people to watch and then have it not actually happen!🙃🙃

I feel like so many us have just accepted Byler as canon at this point, but in the off chance that they indeed make Mileven happen in S5 and don’t reveal that until the very possible last moment when the season airs, what I said above NEEDS to be acknowledged, not just by the Byler fans, but also the general audience and world.

Queerbaiting is real and this would be so so shitty and weird!!