#reylo neg

[clingyduoapologist]

hello!! I was redirected here by bronzetomatoes after inquiring about kylo ren hate (I think the hitting him with a car post is so funny and also i know so little about star wars. it adds to the comedy tbh) and i was told if i want the funny/thorough answer that you’re the place to go. so if you’d like to, go absolutely off the walls about it :)

My friend have you come to the right place.

SO BASICALLY Star Wars is a story about how 3 good movies collectively altered the course of human history by making just like, stupid amounts of money right?

So obviously, Disney was like “I need to get in on that” and bought Star Wars and then started working on their own trilogy. If you’re a Star Wars fan, this is pretty cool! New planets, new character, new lore! It was pretty awesome. The trailer for the first movie in this new trilogy came out and everyone loved it! So much interesting things!!! A female protagonist?!?!? Wow this is so awesome!!!

The problem was the movie isn’t very good.

Don’t get me wrong the force awakens is fine, definitely the best movie in the trilogy, the problem is that it wasn’t good enough, not for most audiences, and especially not for Disney. So they fired JJ Abrams, who directed the force awakens, and hired Ryan Johnson to direct the second movie: the last Jedi.

I fucking hate the last Jedi.

And so did like half the world, and what followed the release of the film was probably the worst fucking time in the history of life on earth to be a Star Wars fan, as basically the entire fanbase devolved into a civil war between last jedi haters and last jedi defenders.

But amongst all the fighting, another group was beginning to form, one that had began in the shadows of the Force Awakens, but was now bolstered by the release of the last Jedi, a shadowy and secretive threat that was about to rear it’s ugly head:

Reylo.

Now, Reylo, as a ship is like, fine? It’s literally just the most barebones enemies to lovers ship you can imagine.

But Reylo as a fanbase? That’s where things start to get interesting. Because what Reylo lacked in character and writing, it made up for in hot fucking actors (I mean it’s fucking Daisy Ridley and Adam Driver what did you expect). this in turn led to a vicious cycle where Reylo fans were extremely uh… motivated… and also had basically blank canvases to build off of. This lead to the Reylo fandom becoming almost a separate entity to the Star Wars fandom, which only further boosted their forces.

But what made Reylo infamous was the scale. These guys were loud, and were prepared to rip anyone to shreds for even the smallest injustices. It was a dog eat dog world, and one that maintained itself through a constant state of war.

But setting Reylo fans aside for a second, you may be wondering “Okay but what does any of that have to do with Kylo Ren?” Which, sure fair question. But to answer that, we have to look at Reylo not as a ship, but as characters.

Now, Rey, as far as protagonists go, is… fine? She’s definitely screwed majorly by being in a completely unplanned trilogy of movies that wasn’t interest in making her a compelling and likable character, but like even then I’d be lying if I said that she wasn’t at the very least interesting. And again like I’ll take any excuse to see Daisy Ridl- sorry what, anyways point is Rey Palpatine skywalker kenobi whatever is a perfectly mediocre protagonist and thus, while sexist assholes may try to convince you that she burned the world’s crops and poisoned the town water supply, truth be told I and many others fans became at worst indifferent, and best charmed by her.

But Kylo Ren? Kylo Motherfucking Ren? Ben SWOLO himself?

This man makes me violent.

And it’s not because he’s more well written then Rey, or even because his writing is particularly worse, as far as I’m concerned they’re both hand in unlovable in in terms of writing quality.

The problem with Kylo is that he could of been so much better, so easily, and yet people still fawned over him.

Like, this guy is Darth Vader’s Fucking Grandson, Luke Skywalker’s Nephew, Son of Han Solo and Leia Skywalker, 1 hot actor removed from self insert character, and yet these writers fucking struggle, each and every time, to figure out what to do with him. Like they are fucking racking their brains trying to make a guy with one of the sickest lightsaber designs ever and a badass outfit all being acted by ADAM FUCKING DRIVER “interesting.”

And PEOPLE FUCKING FELL FOR IT. Like if you go into almost any even slightly sad tag in ao3 I guarantee there will be at least one kylo fic. Like I can not stress to you enough how many people fucking lost their MINDS!!!

FOR HIM

And remember, this is all ON TOP of the fawning that Reylo stans had already been doing. Which only made things worse, if you can even believe that.

And so ever since Rise of Skywalker managed to drag the sequel trilogy’s tired, burning, mangled corpse over the finish line, and all the buzz over it died down, and every YouTube video essayist/movie analyzer saw dollar signs in their eyes, we’re left here, with Adam Driver’s tits swaying in the wind. And for what? The most stock Sad Boy Villaintm of all time and his British gf? A marginally cool lightsaber design? Maybe like, 1 cool fight scene at the end of the first movie?

Like… I’m just left to stare… Stare at this man’s hot topic shopper ass hair cut and Zuko wannabe facial scar, left with nothing better to do than seethe, quietly and angrily, at a character who could have been so much, who could have done so much, but yet was doomed to only ever be himself.

In the end, I suppose I am like Sisyphus, rolling my anger up a hill, knowing that it’ll only roll back down again anyway, and yet not an ounce less motivated to continue my toil. Because Kylo Ren is my enemy, my one true opposite in this great narrative we call reality.

And at least, on some nights, I can rest easy knowing that he fucking died at the end.

[aniseya]

idk who needs to hear this but people are allowed to not ship reylo but ship oshamir. you do not have “ownership” over something people have just found to enjoy while something about the previous ship they did not.

[jynjackets]

they’re not reylo because osha isn’t sidelined from the narrative to support his goals. from her perspective we see how it makes complete sense why someone like her, (a dedicated, loving yet outcasted former jedi) is questioning where she belongs. Qimir may want to use her and obviously feigning kindness to get her to trust him, but he also genuinely wants a pupil that unlocks the power of the dark side. And he sees that power in osha and it’s this obsession with her that’s undeniably tempting especially for someone who hasn’t quite been given back the loyalty and devotion that she openly offers.

its “toxic” because it’s supposed to be. and we love watching these dynamics unfold because they reflect the ugly truths of human nature. we do things to feel love even if it’s in artificial forms. we incessantly give with the illogical hopes that we might receive something back. how the dark side pulls someone such as osha therefore becomes realistic. and what is more appealing than to allow yourself recognition you never had. to let your emotions be unrestrained and even be your greatest strength. what else could you do when someone finally tells you that there’s more out there for you, and can grant you unspeakable power that’s always been just out of reach

[blessyouhawkeye]

i genuinely hope in my lifetime to never experience anything like the reylo phenomenon ever again. something about that ship either attracted people who were weird or made people weird, and either way existing on internet spaces while it was at its peak was hellish.

[sonic-fairyspell]

Oshamir is basically Reylo all over again if Rey went with Ren's bullshit and joined him.

Its just as bad and also somehow worse!!!

[princehendir]

In a weird place rn where I do believe that the specific brand of sex negativity that is prominent mostly in gen z internet users is a problem and not good I just also very firmly believe that thinking incest fanfic is gross does not count as that.

[currymanganese]

You know, it's not lost on me that Sydcarmys are pretty much the only people you'll see in this fandom who call out the misogynoir faced by Sydney/Ayo— and a lot of the anti-sydcarmy peeps on here have most of us blocked. Funny to ya girl! Not that I really care, but these are the same ppl who insist they do care about Syd/Ayo. And I also see some Sydcarmys who make an effort to try to be civil and nice and understanding and it's like..these people have you blocked, they are not reading your posts I'm sorry 😭😭😭

That's what I'm saying! Sydcarmys are the only subsection of the fans (out of those that are engaging in any lengthy discourse about the show online anyway) who call out the absolutely bonkers misogynoir being spewed by other fans that clamour against Syd & Ayo. It's so transparent. I can get not shipping Syd and Carmy, but if someone feels the need to dedicate themselves to being an anti by consistently stridently harassing Sydcarmy shippers or outright denigrating Syd and Ayo over it (and the flak in this regard is never reserved for JAW/Carmy) then methinks it boils down to the race and gender of these characters as to why some persons find the ship and Syd/Ayo so objectionable and inflammatory. Shit's crazy.

I mean it's okay to not like a particular ship or character (for unbigoted reasons anyway) - I myself loathe the character Kylo Ren and the ship Reylo from Star Wars for example, but I don't go out of my way to shit on Reylos and spam their tags, or insult Adam Driver, or engage with fanworks and content for that character etc. because I have better things to do with my time and it's fiction at the end of the day. I think I even have mutuals/ follow persons that ship that ship and it's no skin off my back. Hell, I don't like Claire as a character or Claire x Carmy as a ship either, but if I say something facetious or even mildly unflattering about Claire and Claire x Carmy, I tag it as #anti claire bear out of courtesy to her fans as was requested many moons ago. And you certainly don't see Sydcarmys approaching Molly Gordon to insult her character to her face IRL or attacking her personally in our fandom spaces either, so if we're all being honest with ourselves, what is it about Syd/Ayo (and Sydcarmys by extension) that makes certain fans feel that they're fair game to single out and attack harshly, hmmn?? 🤔

[aliasmard]

I'm not really a fan of sequels, but, guuuyys, reylo means so much to me

[the-viking-goddess]

This is super salty re: the 'New Jedi Order' film, so be warned. I have tried my absolute ALL to avoid even thinking about this announced forthcoming film and am desperately trying to pretend it doesn't exist with every fiber of my being. However, I've been letting in my TROS grief and anger a little bit recently (I mostly keep it boxed away but every now and then I have to let myself feel it a little bit) and it unfortunately got me thinking about this new film. And you know what? I hope it fucking bombs. I hope it is diabolical and crashes and burns at the box office. I don't have anything against Daisy Ridley or the potential team involved (the creative team) but I fucking despise DLF for what they did/allowed to happen with TROS and most specifically Ben Solo and the Skywalkers and I want them to SUFFER as much as possible for it. I want it to be obvious to them after this film loses eye-watering sums of money that killing Ben and just the absolute travesty of TROS was a mistake they can't sweep under the rug or come back from, not in this timeline with these same characters. I want the film to do terribly because, surprise, no Ben, no Skywalkers and the annihilation of Rey's character into a flat, empty OP superhero-cutout who stole Ben's life and identity is not an interesting character to build a new film around.

But of course, life isn't fair and I'm sure this film will make bank and a shit ton of people will see it because it's SW. But I can still HOPE. I mean hope is what it's all about, right? I hope this film is a travesty and is torn to pieces by everyone in every way possible.

And like... I'm trying to be mean and peppy and zingy about this and I meant it, but genuinely the idea that they'll make a new film off the back of TROS without Ben and after every knife in the heart that film delivered... and make money and do well? It actually makes me feel broken. It breaks my heart to think of a new film with 'Rey Skywalker' happily teaching kids with uncle Finn popping in (and ye gods if she has moved on romantically I will kill someone) like Ben never existed and the Skywalkers, Han and Leia didn't all suffer and die for nothing. It makes me FERAL with anger that the films and characters I loved are going to be desecrated even worse than before and this film will be a dance on the grave of everything that TFA and TLJ was.

Anywayyyyy, that's my rant and now I'm going back to trying to pretend it doesn't exist.

[wandalives]

Just saw Reylo being called abusive under a YouTube video of the proposal scene I’m having war flashbacks. I was there, Master Yoda, 3,000 years ago

[aniseya]

some of y’all need to realize that oshamir exists outside of just reylo parallels, and the arcs between the relationships are indeed different. parallels and inspiration are fine! but they are also different ships too. not “same ship different font”—because they didn’t meet the exact same way, they didn’t bond the exact same way, the characters have more uniqueness to them than just being reduced to “rey and kylo 2.0”. not everyone is saying this, don’t get me wrong, but there’s a good majority that need to take a step back and look at oshamir as characters/a pairing outside of their inspiration drawing from reylo. it gets a little tiring seeing people not understanding that while there’s compliments, there’s differences too.

[lucy-ghoul]

Your point about the only thing Rey people being interested in was her relationship with Kylo and how that paralleled the Luke/Vader relationship is interesting. It would have added a lot of depth to the story if they'd been twins. Rey goes for the kiss. "No Rey, I'm your brother." lol. Awkward. Insanely awkward.

Hey, sorry but since I ship them and SW has already had enough soap opera-like "i'm your secret twin" last-minute revelations for my tastes I prefer them to be a romantic enemies to lovers pair - something that in SW (at least the movies; the EU was a bit different with Luke/Mara Jade and Revan/Bastila etc.) has never been seen before, so it adds an element of originality in what is basically Poor Man's OT. Same themes as Luke+Vader (love and compassion as a redemptive force) but not make it a family thing, please. That would have been uselessly redudant imo. What I meant with the Luke+Vader parallel is they're a similar brand of "the protagonist shares their most important relationship with an antagonist who turns to the Light thanks to their influence; said dynamic also challenges the main character's naive and black/white beliefs on evil&good, it challenges them to see the world under a different light". Rey didn't need to be a literal Skywalker, Kylo/Ben could have been enough for that as "one half of the protagonist/one side of the coin" - also because he has had to live with that legacy/lovable dysfunctional family for all his life while Rey struggled in a desert and Luke was "a myth" to her. She doesn't even know them; Vader&co. mean nothing to her (that's one of the many reasons the Rey Palpatine revelation feels so hollow - are we even sure she knew what a Palpatine was? lmao). The Vader Is Luke's Father plot works so well because he's the antagonist Luke has been fighting since Film 1, and Luke has been idolizing his dead dad since forever. This forces the kid to grow up - his world shatters, so he has to find a new sort of belief code. Similar to what her relationship with Kylo does (or should do) to Rey, but in a romantic key. Maybe a romance that redeemed the original star-crossed space lovers (Anidala) - this is all about Vader's legacy after all. In fact, it's all about that and how Leia couldn't (understandably) cope with it, and her son getting targeted by Snoke. Anakin's ghost should have definitely made an appearance in TROS and had an overdue talk with his grandson and his daughter but alas, "Palpatine somehow returned" but Anakin can't be bothered about his family I guess lol (that's deeply OOC of him - I'm saying this as a fan of the character).

But I agree with your point about Rey never failing/fucking things up/needing others' help. That's one of the reasons the audience feels like she's never really matured and changed. She needed to face her own demons, not someone else (specifically a man)'s. The angst about her parents abandoning her and treating her like shit should have sufficed: if she's shown her parents were Good People All Along and they were really coming back for her - well, that only reinforces her childish beliefs and never really puts her in the position to challenge them. Same as if Luke's dad had been a good guy, like he dreamed, and not literally Satan's right hand man. That's How To Write Protagonists 101 but I don't think Disneylucas ever cared about creating a somehow coherent story.

[coulson-is-an-avenger]

i can't believe the knives out movies have made me respect rian johnson

[maryse127]

I hadn't been in a fandom with severe shipping discourse since the Reylo days of the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy but oof some people are straight up mean about that FF Game Awards trailer being focused on a certain ship. The og game being more than 25 years old probably means this discourse has also existed for that long but Why Are People Like This? Been blocking left and right. As in I have also blocked people supporting my preferred ship because I can't stand mean gloating and attacking people opposing it.

[tempoaryblogformightyjensblog]

Being a Reylo shipper and Kylo fan is great because whenever someone tries to insult a fictional stuff I like with a comparison it falls flat

"Catradora is Gay Reylo!"

"Hunter is just the new Kylo Ren!"

Great! I like both of those things! Nice to hear them compared

[beatrixacs]

Why the fuck do I keep getting an anti-ship tag in ‘For You’ section that specifically targets MY favourite ship? So I could see people hating on it? I see that the ‘For You’ section on Tumblr is actually getting worse than ‘For You’ section on Twitter that no one asked for. Ugh.

The ‘For You’ section should reflect the tags of the posts I reblog, post or like. Instead, I am getting pile of shit I am barely interested in.