#fandom misogynoir

[mcfuckity]

You know what? Im breaking my silence. Im TIRED of people missing Jess’ character on purpose. Like, everyone can use context clues and fill in the blanks for every other character but somehow Jess is the only one taken at face value? Jess is being seen as a cold, detached, mean bitch by fans but I cannot determine whether we even watched the same movie.

Let’s address the elephant in the room, because she is a black woman who is NOT a mammy character, people criticize her harsher. Jess was MORE than Miguel’s “lackey”. She had her own thoughts and opinions. She definitely had her own personality and feelings about the entire situation. She lowkey stalled time to give Gwen chances to fix her mistakes.

If Jess was as cold as Miguel and such a “bitch”, she would’ve left Gwen the first time. Let’s not forget that Miguel was fully about to leave Gwen with her own father holding her at gunpoint, JESS vouched to bring Gwen under her name. Jess put her OWN position at risk to help Gwen and it required that she do her job accordingly. Jess made the boundary VERY clear, she is NOT Gwen’s mother. She is NOT her friend. I seen people argue that “Jess’ maternal instincts” should’ve kicked in to protect Gwen” but fully ignoring that Jess HAS A FAMILY! Jess is PREGNANT with her OWN child. Her instincts DID kick in and she chose her dimension with her family in it!

Jess was stuck in a rock and a hard place. She obviously wanted to help Gwen (considering she brought her in at the cost of her own position) but UNFORTUNATELY, GWEN messed up. Gwen saw Miles and that ultimately led to Spot escaping. You can love these characters and acknowledge that every character had their OWN thoughts and motivations that led to fuck ups. It’s not right to try to make Jess sound worse than the man who fuckin replaced his dead self out of grief, was about to leave a teen at gunpoint, and had an entire society of people chase a teenager who wanted to save his dad.

Don’t get me started on the “she’s fighting crime while pregnant argument” because we can accept superpowered people but NOT the possibility that their bodies are more resilient. NOT TO MENTION THAT PETER B HAS A WHOLE BABY ON MISSIONS???? Like, no one is calling him a bad father so what’s different with Jess? Miguel was mean as fuck to Miles upon meeting but Jess doing her JOB is considered being “mean”.

Then the “I didn’t see her enough to connect with her” is fair until everyone can somehow create entire {TERRIBLE} mischaracterizations of Hobie, Pav, and Peni who (arguably) had just about the same amount of screentime. She also shares traits with every other spider person with being snarky and quick-witted while being completely grounded. She’s literally one of the spider people that Miguel fully trusts but somehow the fandom erases her and goes “He loves Peter B and Lego Spidey🤪🤪”

Like, it’s crazy how people find it so easy to erase Jess and Margo (Spiderbyte) in fanworks for things they easily dismiss from other characters and it’s feelin like misogynoir. Like, Margo and Hobie served the same purpose with deciding to go against Miguel for Miles, yet only Hobie and Gwen gets that credit.

AND THEN THE MANY EXCUSES WHEN IT COMES TO SHIPPING! People keep hating on Jess/Miguel because she’s “obviously pregnant and married” but go right around and ship Miguel with Peter B. Same with Margo/Miles because it’s a bunch of “Miles and Gwen are obviously endgame” ANDDDD???? Since when did every ship HAVE TO be canon in order to be a ship? It’s especially crazy because I BARELY EVER see those comments on Miles/(Peni, Pav, or Hobie) or have no problem with having all the boys huddled around Gwen. The double standard is glaringly obvious.

In conclusion, some of you mfs dont deserve ATSV.

[sleepynegress]

About Online Threats Abuse & Misogynoir Towards Black Women in the Entertainment Industry...

Susan Wokoma appeared on the Woman's Hour on BBC Radio recently and she bravely spoke out on the letter of support she and Somalia Seton put together to support Francesca Amewudah-Rivers, as well as speaking candidly on the effects the online abuse that Black women face have...

I IMPLORE people in these fandoms, especially where harassment of Black women happens to listen to this podcast to understand what it does. Listen below:

There is a very white tendency to either make the focus their own sympathetic reaction to a Black woman entertainer being bullied/harassed like this (crying or feeling bad for it happening to them) or minimize what's happening. "It's only one or two" or "They'll probably never see it." And I get the tendency to want to either distance or somehow equalize it to the harassment white women face, as well...but there is a particular nastiness that comes with misogynoir that gets at literally wanting to dehumanize and punish a Black woman for existing. The intention is to destroy them completely, rather than put in place. Anyway, I encourage anyone who cares about Black women in fandom to give the segment interviewing Susan Wokoma, a listen.

[justanisabelakinnie]

"We need more strong, fleshed out, well-developed female characters of color!" you bitches couldn't even handle the Madrigal women.

[leikeliscomet]

Tried to talk about how Martha being negatively compared to Rose enabled a lot of racism in the fandom so shipping them together and tieing Martha's self-worth to Rose for the 24th time isn't a good idea if you care about Black women in TV/Film like that and I get told I'm being a meanie in my replies AND DMs like thank you for proving my point that you lot don't care about Black female characters and can't be trusted with Black sapphic coding AT ALL

[bohemian-nights]

Like clockwork, the moment that Sophie is almost surely going to be played by a Black woman there is a sudden uptick in the Sophie should be a man or trans because that would be “true representation” discourse.

Representation for all communities is important(although that’s not what this rally is about), but Sophie Beckett is the last character in Bridgerton who should be gender-bent or made trans since her story is directly tied to her being a working-class biological woman.

It's because she's a woman that her only means of employment is as a maid. It's because she's a woman that she was almost raped by a pack of men. It’s because she’s a biological woman and fears birthing children who will be illegitimate and who may have to go through life as she did that she refuses to be Benedict’s mistress.

You can’t just plop a (white cause that’s what the real issue is) man or a (white) trans woman into her place without changing her story which is unique in the Bridgerton universe and dare I say the most empowering. So while yes it would be nice to see a gay love story on the show or a trans person, Benophie isn’t the couple to turn to for this representation.

And said representation definitely shouldn’t come at the expense of representation for Black women who are rarely shown as love interests or get to be leading ladies in media. Representation for Black women may not be your representation, but it's still representation for an under-represented marginalized group.

Seriously if your idea of representation hinges on the fact that Black women should step aside and wait “our turn”(aka we shouldn't be represented because y'all always come up with some excuse for why it isn't “our turn”) you need to reassess some things because that isn't going to happen any longer.

This also goes out to the people who keep saying that there are “too many” Black people on show therefore Sophie shouldn't be Black when the only Black woman* that has been featured has been Lady Danbury who is a side character who most certainly does not have a happily ever after(HEA).

*I love Queen Charlotte and both India and Goldie’s portrayal of her and I loved the spin-off, but both women are mixed.

Let’s not forget the people who said Sophie being Black would be too “problematic” since she’s slave(she’s not a slave you’re insulting the enslaved when you refer to her as such) while cheering on every other group of women playing Sophie.

That was what some said a year ago when people suggested Sophie could played by a Black woman, but now that it’s coming you’ve moved on from that excuse to needing to see two white men on your screens.

So once again this isn't about representation it's just another instance of fandom misogynoir aka trying to keep Black women off your screens useless we are there to serve you or be tortured.

Cause somehow seeing Patsey getting wiped and raped 23 million times is “powerful” representation, but seeing a Black woman being loved and cared for and getting a HEA with a man who adores her is “problematic.”

Again I do understand the ones who genuinely want to see themselves represented on screen, but to make this much of a fuss about a Black woman in the role of Sophie Beckett, it’s inexcusable.

Reference point to this rant.

[ambelle]

I’ve talked vaguely about white liberals treatment of BW both in real life and in fandom spaces but I feel I should expand on that.

A while back a BW wrote an article about how BM are the white people of the black community. White people were offended and baffled and BM protested. The thing is it's very much true. BM, along with BW are oppressed under a system stacked against us (along with many other demographics), but because BW are women we are also oppressed by BM.

White liberals have the privilege to not have grown up in the hood like I did. So they can claim a world without cops wouldn't turn into open season on BW at the hands of BM. They can say gangs, drive-bys, and drug dealers aren't dangerous and BM shouldn't be prevented from doing it. But when I was little I couldn't use the playgrounds because drug dealers used them as a place to deal and recruit little boys. I couldn't go to the local skating rink because gangs would go there to fight and shoot it up. I had to play in the street with my friends because the MEN in the community were ruining spaces meant for children. Erasing safety in general actually. Not the white president, the men in the community. I can say systematic racism and the BM who did a random drive-by on my house and raped little girls were both oppressing me. Both are true.

But it's not true to the white liberals who have a complete blind spot when it comes to BW because they don't acknowledge we are women. They see us as strong unwavering aggressive machines. We make good allies but they don't need to help us because we are invincible duh. It's the "bw saved the day" shit after every election followed by them going right back to ignoring us the next day.

It's them ignoring all the crazy stats about violence against BW to whitesplain to us how abolishing the police is a great idea. The men harming us will simply stop if they know we don't even have someone we may call for help. Let's abolish the police because they harm BM and BM never do anything they should be arrested for including my rapist. He was simply a victim of white supremacy and I should have hugged him after like the strong mammy I was born to be. No need to talk about black femicide.

Basically, white liberals care about BM (because it's trendy not because they give a shit see ANTIFA), BW care about BM, BM care about BM, and no one gives a shit about BW. That's the reality

But white libs in fandoms are racist in a different way. They like to adopt the struggles of demographics that are oppressed in real life and apply it to white characters. It's why characters like Silco and Jinx are so appealing to them.

(both trying to kill Zaunites here BTW)

Make no mistake If Silco were black fans would be holding them accountable same with Jinx. But they are white and they are (were) oppressed. That's literally a white liberal dream. They get to ignore the fact that Silco and Jinx are rich and they got rich by oppressing poor people and forcing children into child labor.

(that Zaunite teen boy died not that anyone cares. )

They get to weaponize classism to excuse the violence and murder they commit against other poor people. Who cares how many orphans he creates or how many poor children he tries to murder.

Mind you not only was Silco rich off the backs of poor people and the labor of kids, he used the enforcers to help him not only oppress his own people but also frame Ekko (ironically a BM) and the Firelights for crimes he and Jinx were committing.

Jinx who killed multiple Zaunites on purpose and tried to kill Ekko later on. Jinx who is rich and has no motive for the violence she commits. Jinx who is working for the man she KNOWS killed her father figure and tried to kill her siblings. Jinx who never once takes responsibility for any of the choices she makes. But she's white. It's why the fandom supports her hetero ship with Ekko (who they headcanon as being her emotional crutch). They only care about heteronormativity when there is a black woman they want to erase. No other straight pairing gets called "disgusting", "forced", "shoehorned", "a betrayal", or "immoral". Mel is forceful and aggressive. She's a seductress who manipulates Jayce into her bed and into doing her evil deeds.

(He's clearly not into her at all)

He should be kissing Vik's ass and worshipping the ground he walks on. Speaking of Viktor ...him using tech for his own gains, secretly merging his DNA with the core, getting addicted to shimmer, killing a fellow Zaunite and converting up her death + stealing her notes is something no one will discuss.

Because he's white , was once poor, and is "gay-coded". He's thus entitled to murdering a brown woman and entitled to Jayce's body. They weaponize LGBTQ+ rep in order to justify their racism much like the left does in real life.

Mel who shows no ill will towards Viktor is accused of being ableist and classist because she gave him a look when he was arguing with her. Mel who explains why she wants defensive weapons and has several scenes reiterating her motive is accused of wanting war and genocide.

Mel who has exchanged flirty looks with Jayce every episode before she kisses him is accused of raping him. Mel who isn't at all a part of the Vander/Silco/Jinx shenanigans in ep 1 is blamed for the death of Jinx's family because she "controls the council" (even though they often vote against her and Heimerdinger gets a pass despite being there when the cities were founded). Because she's black and rich. Thus they can weaponize poverty in order to villainize BW.

They shout over the people who are actually oppressed. Over the people who know what it's like to have drug dealers and gangs make your life hell while the government does the same on a less personal scale.

This is what white liberals do. It's not new. I won't even get into the weird ass envy/hatred/lust thing they have for bw. The dehumanizing and hypersexualizing shit they do is a whole other essay.

[fandomshatewomen]

*fake shock*

Anyways, listen to women, especially Black Women.

[the-everqueen]

re: lrb, i feel like the reason so much of the sandman fandom has attached to Death as their female character of choice is because she doesn't represent a threat to the major ship and in s1 she IS acting like the Supportive Big Sister for Dream. in other words, she doesn't challenge fandom's idea of what a Black woman "should" be. she can't be shipped with the (white) main character, she shows up briefly to lend him moral support, and she requires nothing from him. unlike all those other messy women that fandom loves to ignore.

[two-hands-toward-the-sun]

Portraying Black Female Characters in Sandman Fic

A fanfic may not have the same reach as a published book, but being aware of how we’re portraying the many Black women of the Sandman in our fics and our posts is still imperative. As I am nonblack, the only piece of advice I can offer is this: pay attention to how Black women write about themselves. Read books by and about Black women. Listen to music by Black women and consider their lyrics. Educate yourself on damaging stereotypes Black women face in order to avoid reinforcing them in your writing. Just…see how creators portray people who share their own identities. That’s vital. Absolutely essential, even.

Below the cut I have included a few personal recommendations if you’re interested.

Books

Homegoing by Yaa Gyasi. A gorgeously written, emotionally expansive novel beginning with vignettes about two sisters who never met: in 18th century Ghana, one sister marries a white British officer, and the other is sold into slavery and trafficked to the United States. The book then follows the descendents of these sisters through eight generations. We only spend a single chapter with each character, but Gyasi is so, SO gifted at making you care about them as people in the limited time we spend with them.

(She also wrote an article in 2020 that is well worth a read, and raises points that are important to keep in mind as we seek out more diverse media.)

The Brown Sisters Trilogy by Talia Hibbert. These three books are romances (each book is about one of the titular sisters), and they’re fun and flirty with interesting, distinct characters. I was trying to think of a favorite one, but I couldn’t! They’re all enjoyable in different ways.

Music

“Deathless,” “River,” “Creature (Perfect),” “Vale,” and “Juice of Mandarins” by Ibeyi

“Black Woman” by Danielle Brooks

“Protect Your Queen” by Sampa the Great

“She’s Got Her Ticket” by Tracy Chapman

The entirety of Lemonade by Beyoncé + “Brown Skin Girl” and “I Was Here”

Additionally, here are some links to posts or articles that address the “Strong Black Woman” trope. I see undertones or overt representations of this with Lucienne often in this fandom, and I think it’s a stereotype we need to be especially aware of.

Post: a quote from the TV show Harlem

Post: 10 Ways You Can Support Black Women (specifically #9, but the whole post is important.)

Article: Why the “strong black woman” stereotype is an albatross

[howhow326]

2024 New Years resolution: Stop Being Nice to Racists

[fandomshatepeopleofcolor]

I see endless hate for Discovery. People saying every season is terrible. It's obviously racism. They don't list Burnham as the captain. They ignore all the good rep in the show. They have no real criticism about the plots just that it's long form. But like was the plot bad??? No? Then it's not a bad plot. There's 4 seasons! And each one has been hit hard. It's got its ups and downs like every Star Trek show. But Discovery is 'terrible' because black people have to be 2 times as good to get half the credit.

Nevermind the comparison to Enterprise as if that's not comparing puff the magic dragon to atla. Discovery is the powerhouse of the franchise right now for a reason. But people can't help but cry and piss blood in their pants because they don't like seeing black leads thriving.

well you're right but its more precisely misogynoir because Michael is a black woman.

ENTERPRISE WAS TRASH IT KILLED THE FRANCHISE FOR YEARS!!! The only reason Picard, SNW and the rest of the shows were even possible was because of Discovery!!!

mod ali

[literaryspinster]

Mel fans are allowed to be annoyed by how the fandom talks about her

It’s ugly af even when it’s meant to be complimentary and supportive. I don’t care if you think it’s cool that she “uses her body to gain power” that is not a thing that you can prove that she did. Just please stop.

[uncriticalbunny]

"sydney having worked on herself and completed all her goals"

[leikeliscomet]

Nah I'm seeing a lot of posts on here and twitter blaming Martha's fans for her mischaracterization and while this does happen I'm really not feeling the idea that feeling sorry for Martha like at all is form of infantilisation or removing her agency. Already covered this in previous posts but the strong-Black-womaning is starting to piss me off bc its not an either or. You can feel sympathy for Martha and recognise that she grew and moved on at the same time. Like this doesn't happen to any other companion. We still recognise Rose's vulnerabilities even tho she got herself a gun. We recognise the Clara that pretended to be the Doctor is the same Clara that broke down crying. Again this is why you have to engage with antiblackness as itself and not just a fandom issue bc any basic reading will show you that pity and sympathy are things not afforded to Black women on a systemic or social level and arguing this ruins our characterisation, we need less or none at all is not giving what you think its giving.

[bohemian-nights]

Unpopular Opinion: Every time a black female character (especially if this black female character is dark skinned) enters into a relationship with the popular fan-favorite white male character usually one of three things happen a. the black female character is now headcanoned as a lesbian (never bisexual or queer or anything that would leave the character with the possibility of still entering into a relationship with a man) b. white male character is now shipped with other popular fan-favorite white male character/other white female character (the popular fan-favorite white male character is usually headcanoned to be bisexual and when he is, shipped with a woman that woman is always white) or c. black female character (and sometimes their actresses) is now being talked about as if they are the devil himself.

Wanting characters to explore their sexuality is fine but I always find it odd how this always happens when one member of the relationship is a black/blackish woman. *forgot to mention the suddenly polyamorous relationship the three (black female, white male and white male/woman) characters are now without a doubt in*

Anon you spoke nothing, but facts right here 🙌🏽

(The only thing I’d add is that they don’t just do this when the woman in question is with a white man, see Namor and Shuri and the backlash some shippers got for shipping them).

You aren’t the only one who has been noticing this trend.

I say trend loosely because really just a new stereotype to add to the bunch😒

It would be one thing if it was a want for actual representation, but every time now like clockwork. as soon as they see a Black woman who looks like she’s going to have a romantic arc with said popular fandom man, boom she must be gay😑

Hell, it’s getting so bad that these shows/movies are automatically just writing their Black women characters in that way.

If people can’t see how this can be harmful/dangerous, that’s cool, but anytime you want to paint all of a group a certain way and won’t show them in any other setting, that’s how you end up birthing new stereotypes.

This isn’t creating diversity. It’s limiting it(once again).

It’s so all or nothing with our media representation. Black women don’t want to be shown as one thing(which seems to go right over most people’s heads).

We just want the same opportunities as everybody else and not to be put into one or two narrow boxes of acceptable characterization that doesn’t threaten the status quo(aka you can't have Black women looking desirable especially not when there is an available white woman right there next to her).

[mcufandomhatespeopleofcolor]

Something I’ve noticed with a few black characters is that most of their fan content just involves shipping (especially with a white person) and nothing much of them as their own character.

It doesn't help that a lot of the mcu characters are played by White people

There was a post I remember years back that showed the time the actors of Steve Rogers and Tony Stark spoke, were on screen, and interacted compared to other actors. The conclusion was something like "when you see two characters speaking and acting the most on screen, it's no wonder people ship them the most." It was something to think about

Also, not to say that character of color/character of color ships don't exist; they're just less popular and are more likely considered a "rare pair."

Monica Rambeau/Jimmy Woo, for example, has 13 fics total on AO3. Katy Chen/Xu Xialing has 90 works. MCU MJ/Liz Allan have 36 works. Some have slightly larger numbers like Shuri/Riri Williams which currently has 269 works, and Sam Wilson/Joaquín Torres, which has 111 works on AO3, and Katy Chen/Shang-Chi which has 226, and Antoine Triplett/Daisy Johnson that has 284 works right now.

But also, and this depends on your experience, but fandom spaces, especially those that have a good number of White characters, tend to largely neglect the characters of color, not to mention the fandom fans who aren't White being ignored, pushed out, etc

Mod Palette