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seaprofound · 2 years

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I SEE YOU, I CHERISH YOU ♡

instructions: positivity challenge! list 6 blogs that have interacted with you in some way, shape, or form and show your appreciation. let’s recognize each other’s efforts! repost, do not reblog!

♡ moogle (@theydefy): YOU ARE MY ANGEEEEEEEL (my love) YOU’RE EVERYTHING I NEEEEEED (and more)—okay, cheesy song aside, I legit care for you so much, moogle, like you have NO idea. if I was peanut butter, I’d consider you to be my jelly (in a totally platonic way ofc). thanks to you, I DO, in fact, consider ernesto to be the besto! gosh, where do I even begin with your ernie? he’s so much more fleshed out than his canon version, then I think you could forgive someone for mistaking him for your oc. backstory can be a tricky thing to implement for characters that you don’t learn much about in their respective canon but the one that you have crafted for ernie makes a lot of sense and explains SO much about him. at the same time, though, reason does not equal justification for any misdeeds and you understand that perfectly. gosh, I feel so lucky to have you on my dash tbh—you are just the best, okay. ♡♡

♡ bird (@mielmoto): bird, first of all, I just wanna apologize for not recognizing your awesomeness when I interacted with you on honey for the first time. I was a FOOL and the whole world deserves to know that. second of all, talking with you is such a delight and I adore seeing honey on my dash even when she’s not interacting with po (whom she should frankly stay away from lest she’d be corrupted lbr /j) this may sound kinda weird but I just wanna squish her tbh. she’s just so darn cute !! you are such a total vibe btw and I’ve loved every single one of our conversations. here’s hoping that we can talk more often! ♡♡

♡ ry (@demonstigma): new salt buddy alert! ry, I have never been as informed about a Certain Show That I Will Not Name as when I was discussing it with you. you have really enlightened me on the bullshit that went on in that show and, for that, I am eternally grateful. you are also so easy to talk to and I just really dig your chill vibe. lastly, your oc really intrigues me because it’s not often that I see a demon that has some sort of connection to pagan gods. I love reading about all of the little quirks that he has (along with the Deep Stuff ofc) and look forward to the day that he’ll officially be introduced to my menace of a muse. ♡♡

♡ winter (@bledwaves): another cool oc! winter, is it cheating to say that I love your everything? if it is, then I’d have to say that my favorite aspect about your blog probably has to be your long metas. I’m a SUCKER for lots of detail and, every time you post one of your metas, I feel so FED. taiyang is one of the most interesting ocs I’ve ever seen and the amount of thought that you put into him is enviable! I’ve also enjoyed chatting with you and think that it’s such a crying shame that we don’t chat more often tbh. you know that expression “as cool as cucumber”? you’re that times 9,000—no, times infinity. love you, bish. ♡♡

♡ renee (@nectaric): an oldie but a goodie! lmao, sorry but I just couldn’t resist. how long has it been since we’ve known each other? 6 years ?? damn, how the time flies. although we don’t interact as much as we used to back in the days of yore, I just want you to know that you will always have my heart. I’ve told you this time and time again but your interpretation of zeus completely changed how I viewed him. while I don’t think I could ever be the big zeus super-fan that you are—that crown forever belongs to you lbr—you have influenced me in a number of ways. for example, I think it’s weird now whenever I come across a take of zeus that makes him too jock-like or doesn’t mention him being genderfluid in some way. like. where’s the prettiness? this zeus looks too manly! I want a refund !! jokes aside, I wish you every happiness and hope that you have the best of luck with your book. knowing you, the final product will probably be amazing! ♡♡

♡ simy (@dethqveen): wow, so many cool ocs! what is this—the holiday season? simy, although we haven’t roleplayed (yet), I’ve enjoyed seeing you on my dash (not to mention the conversations that we’ve had on tumblr IMs). eerie is such a wonderfully fleshed out character and it’s honestly amazing to see just how much they have evolved over the years. the fact that their current iteration is so different from their prototype speaks volumes about how open to change you are as a writer. writers need to have that level of flexibility imo because, if characters were set in stone, then they wouldn’t be allowed to grow and surprise us—and that’s no fun at all! I’m so sorry btw that a certain anonymous dickhead is giving you such a hard time (AGAIN at that, ugh). I hope that you can finally put an end to their hatred once and for all. ♡♡

♡ all of my mutuals not mentioned on this list (whether we interact or not): first of all, thank you for becoming a part of my dash. the fact that you looked at my blog and thought “hey, this blog is pretty neat, I think I’ll give it a follow” is just so humbling. I have HORRIBLE perfectionism-related, performance anxiety issues—try saying that 10 times fast—so, I tend to have less than steller opinions about my writing capabilities. (seriously, just ask my fourth grade teacher whose class I nearly failed because I was so over-critical of my writing, that I was too scared to even try to write, lmao) therefore, even something as simple as a follow back just melts my heart tbh. if we have interacted even a little bit, I wish that we could interact some more. if we haven’t interacted yet, then I look forward to the day where one of us makes the first step. until then, keep on being cool and awesome, fam. ♡♡

Tagged by: nobody, I created this one !! Tagging: @nuiruk, @bledwaves, @ofmywcrld, @theydefy, @partloss, @warraigoe, @athinakori, @mielmoto, @storystrange, @sereniora, @singofus, @emcads, @multiicolor, @earthssprout, @badboysupr, @mageiia, @uizado, @okeancs, @nectaric, @apricaite, @brokentoys, @ladysmaid, @demonstigma, @hoopsheartthrob, @heedingcalls, @dethqveen, @cauterisen, @riidcr, @asoulunbound, @never-surrender, @mysticwrit, @lunarburnt & youuuuuuuuuuu !!!!!!! feel free to steal it from me and hop aboard the positivity train!

#「 ♆ ❛ tag! you’re it! ❜ ╱ dash games. 」#「 ♆ ❛ you look nice today! ❜ ╱ positivity. 」

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nerymoura · 5 months

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cappymightwrite · 3 years

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Hi Cappy! You know, you quickly became one of my favourite Jonsas with your spectacular analyses😍

I wanted to ask you: how do you think Jon and D*enerys’ relationship will play out in the books? Regarding the show, I’m a firm believer in the political!Jon theory, so I hope that in the books, if there’s going to be a Jon*rys “romance”, it will be one sided, with Jon trying to manipulate her. But is that going to happen, in your opinion? I hope that, even if he’ll manipulate her, there won’t be “romance” or sex involved, because we don’t need another (worse) Ygritte situation. I hope that, by the time he meets D*ny, there will already be something going on between him and Sansa. About that, do you think that Jon and D*ny will meet before or after the parentage reveal? The show definitely teased a love triangle between D*ny, Jon and Sansa. Since D&D basically loathed Sansa and tried everything they could to “punish” her, I don’t think they would’ve involved Sansa like that if that wasn’t a plot point in the books. Do you think that D*ny will be infatuated with Jon, realize that he’s in love with Sansa, and so be jealous of her and threatening her (and their baby perhaps, if by then Jon’s identity is out and Jon and Sansa are already married)?

Hey! Apologies for the late response — I am slowly getting through my asks, I promise. Aw, thank you! I just checked the date on my first Jonsa meta — an analysis of AFFC, Alayne II — and I wrote that at the end of March this year, which is kinda crazy. I really just cannonballed my way into the Jonsa fam, didn't I?

Anyway, onto your questions:

How do I think Jon and Dænerys's relationship will play out in the books?

To be honest, I really am Don Draper in regards to Jonerice:

I interpret them as foils, whilst also acknowledging them as ultimately connected characters, but beyond that? I'm not that interested. I'm a romantic sap who likes Jonsa, plus a medieval Norse nerd, so I tend to stick to what I like and feel enthused by. I don't really go in for talking about other ships that I don't personally vibe with... so I'm probably not the best person to ask.

But for you anon, because you had the good sense to grease my palm with praise, I'll indulge you! Although I'm not sure I have anything hugely original to add...

Instead, I'd have to say I agree with @agentrouka-blog in that I don't think Jon will fall in love with her, and I don't think there's going to be a love triangle, because as @fedonciadale has noted they aren't really all that compatible. I do think they'll inevitably meet, and I can see that meeting being quite tense, with a need on Jon's side to get her to cooperate in the fight agains the Others, and a pressure on Dæny's side to be recognised and respected as this sovereign power.

I think Quentyn's meeting with Dæny is a taster, a prelude to Jon´s in the sense that it´s not going to be this grand meeting of heroes who then fall madly in love, joining forces to save the day. It's not going to be that perfect marriage of "ice and fire" by any means. Certainly, book Jon is far more wiley and cunning than show Jon. He´s far more adept at manipulation, he's far more of a political thinker:

"Ask, I said, not beg." Jon pulled back his hand. "It is no good sending messages. Your Grace will need to go to them yourself. Eat their bread and salt, drink their ale, listen to their pipers, praise the beauty of their daughters and the courage of their sons, and you'll have their swords. The clans have not seen a king since Torrhen Stark bent his knee. Your coming does them honor. Command them to fight for you, and they will look at one another and say, 'Who is this man? He is no king of mine.' " – ADWD, Jon IV

As illustrated above, he knows how to bring people over to his/your side. He knows how to play the game... how to lie and flatter if needs be. So, yeah, I would be very surprised if what we've seen of Jon's political capabilities, his moral greyness, all goes out the window in regards to Dæny. Because... what? Because they fall "in love"? Nah.

The only narrative incentive not to follow through with Jon's political arc, with something of a polictical!Jon vibe, is because it would damage the sincerity of a romance between them. It would taint it. But that's working on the assumption that there will be mutual feeling, that there will be an "epic" romance, that misinterpreted union of ice and fire... which I don't think there will be.

I don't think he's going to bend over backwards to accomodate and praise her out of some instantaneous adoration... if he does do that, it'll be a ruse, a carefully crafted performance. So yeah, I'm inclined to believe that we'll get something of a political!Jon storyline... because Jon's politcal education/arc, the instances where he's had to conceal his true feelings, has necessitated that. And it'll be interesting to read it through D's pov, because that could fool the reader initially, only to be revealed later in Jon's pov potentially.

However, like you anon, if GRRM does do a political!Jon dynamic, I hope there isn't any sex, or dubious consent owing to this lack of explicit mutal feeling. I wouldn't want that for Jon, and I wouldn't want that for Dæny either. Certainly, I'd anticipate the tension to be on a knife's edge, at least from Jon's pov. I could see it treading a very thin line towards something morally questionable, and there's set up for Jon to become even more grey (see the baby swap), plus in part 2 of my Byronic Hero meta I've talked, albeit briefly, about the possibility of some kind of cosmic alienation occuring post-res... so it's hard to say what his moral compass may be like, particularly if he's a lone wolf, without his pack, in this situation.

For sure, it'll be Jon's toughest "performance" yet. Narratively too, it's a meaty, complex storyline, and the set up is there, I think. He's set up not to trust or approve of those heavily associated with fire, with death by fire. He's set up to "taste nothing but the cold" when presented with silver-toned hair. He's set up to be wary of the might of dragons. It's all laid out ready.

And I agree, I think Jonsa will have certainly been at least set in motion prior to a Jon-Dæny meeting.

Do I think Jon and Dænerys will meet before or after the parentage reveal?

I feel like it may have to be after... just because I personally forsee the reveal happening at Winterfell, because that setting has the most emotional significance and it's where Lyanna is buried etc. Dæny, we have to remember, is on another continent currently, and then will presumably be travelling from south to north?

I'm not 100% sure tbh. I like to think about what either option would bring to the narrative, to Jon as a character... If they meet before he finds out, then his relation to Dæny will certainly be something he would think about when the truth is then revealed... though if the location in which he finds out isn't Winterfell, will it be as impactful? But say Dæny and Jon do meet the before R+L=J bombshell, that would surely heap on more of the angst, it would shift his perception of her, or get him to re-evaluate her and himself potentially, going from the political to the personal, which is always rich ground for writing something emotionally poignant...

But I don't know if that would be a bit too much?

In my parentage reveal fic, the way I wrote it would mean that Jon and Dæny would be meeting after Jon finds out his true parentage, although Jon-Dæny obviously wasn't my primary focus. My focus was what it would mean for Jonsa. I wanted to write the reveal as a double-edged sword, a mix between relief and pain — relief at not being Sansa's brother, but pain at not being Ned's son etc. I just feel that by adding oh and the person I've been trying to dupe into aiding my cause is also my aunt overloads things, if that makes sense? The reveal should involve conflicting emotions, for sure, because that's interesting to read, but not so many factors that the clarity of its impact is muddied. I think by adding in Dæny, or more specifically an already established dynamic with her, which would then need to be re-evaluated by Jon, would ultimately detract from the double-edged sword poignancy of that sense of relief and pain.

On the otherhand... if GRRM wants to tease Jonerice, before pulling the rug out from under us, Jon knowing that he's half Targ is a bit of an obstacle. Though, maybe not? I'm really not sure, lmao. It depends on how much GRRM wants the reader to be aware of and privy to. I mean, I spoke about reading politcal!Jon from Dæny's pov, but if Jon knows his parentage, if he knows he's got to play her to some extent... keeping a tight focus on his pov could be very interesting, and it could parallel and call back to Quentyn's in an interesting way.

So, if I had to fall down on one over the other, gun to my head, I think logistically, it makes more sense that they'd meet after.

Do I think that Dænerys will be infatuated with Jon?

That's a good question. Would Dæny even fancy Jon? I'm not so sure. He's not exactly dashing (like Daario), he's not especially handsome by Targ standards, he's morose, he's sarcastic, he's brooding and solemn. He's a typical long-faced Stark. I'm not sure he's her type, just as I don't think she's his either. So, I don't think there's going to be an instantaneous physical attraction. I doubt it'd be lust at first sight for her, and certainly not him, lmao.

Furthermore, she famously called Ned "the usurper's dog", so already there is a bit of a personal bias and barrier there. Because I don't think their shared family history can be ignored. It's always going to be the elephant in the room from the moment they meet.

After their first meeting however, I could see her maybe being curious about him, on a personal level, because of the Lyanna connection, and that doesn't necessarily require her knowing his true parentage. He could well be the first Stark she meets. So, she might look for in Jon, in his character, his appearance etc, a better understanding regarding Rhaegar (why he "chose" Lyanna), and this could occur prior to the truth about his parentage being revealed (to her). But I don't exactly see her going oh I get it now, these Starks are irresistible! Instead, maybe she develops a begrudging fascination with him? Something that creeps up on her, unawares. I could see that being the angle GRRM goes down, because afterall:

Well who wouldn’t want to be Jon Snow — the brooding, Byronic, romantic hero whom all the girls love. [source]

I could see Dæny starting off with the upperhand, believing herself to be in the higher position of power, then piece by piece unknowingly losing it, due to Jon's manipulation of her, his playing to her vanity, her belief in her own exceptionalism etc. She may "fall in love" with the mask that Jon puts forward, something we know he's capable of thanks to his time spent with the wildlings, even to some extent with the Night's Watch. Because Jon knows how to conceal his true feelings very well. He is not the show Jon who supposedly cannot lie. He knows how to suppress the identity he longs for most and identifies with the most, feels most loyalty towards... the Starks.

It could be that through observation, Jon tailors his "performance" in order to appeal more to her... i.e. he starts flattering her more, acting more "dashing", but subtly, so that it seems as though he has become infatuated with her. So, Dæny may believe that she is getting to know his "true self" — e.g. he starts off cold, then "warms" to her — and that a sense of intimacy and understanding is being created between them, when what is really happening is that he is altering and concealing himself to better sway her to his own goals.

As they fundamentally are, as noted by fedon, they are not compatible, but compatibility goes out the window when one party is presenting a false version of themselves... a mummer's ruse.

Or, you know, maybe Jon-Dæny will be purely political? And then sort of tensely familial? God, what if there won't even be a suggestion of attraction between them? Wouldn't that be a turn up for the books. There seems to be this long held assumption that something has to happen romantically between them... but what if it doesn't? WHAT IF IT DOESN'T??!! What if she is unimpressed with him and he's unimpressed with her and... yeah maybe Jon has to employ some flattery and manipulation to get things done, but it never becomes a dubious seduction or whatever? Man... I'd quite like that actually.

Will Dænerys realise Jon loves Sansa and therefore feel jealous and/or threatened by Sansa?

l guess that would require her either hearing about their close relationship, or witnessing it? In the case of the former, assuming Jon is on a solo mission when meeting her, and he's doing a politcal!Jon... why would he give anything of substance, of real significance, about himself away to her like that? If he's concealing his true feelings, then I would expect him to conceal his true loyalties, and to protect those he cares about most, which would include Sansa.

So, I don't think Jon would be offering up any info about his real regard for Sansa (whether or not they’re secretly married etc) because that would not be politically smart at all. Who else then would be privy to the true nature of their relationship and then tell Dæny about it? I honestly don't know? Just the way I envision Jonsa becoming canon... I don't think they'd broadcast it, they'd want to protect their relationship and each other, until they're safe to love without danger and adversity (which makes me lean towards a marriage in A Dream of Spring, rather than Winds). With that in mind, if the only Stark Dæny ever interacts with is Jon, I wouldn't expect her to ever cotton on to Jonsa, because I would trust that Jon would keep that very close to his chest.

Possibly Dæny may feel threatened by the Starklings as a whole, jealous of that pack dynamic, if she finds out that Jon is half Targ, but Sansa specifcally? Hmmm, I don't know, not unless they meet, I think. If Dæny was to become jealous and feel threatened by Sansa, by Jonsa, it would make more sense if we're presented this through her witnessing them together and then we get her pov on that.

Ok, let's say they all meet up in the north then, as they do in the show... well, if Dæny is infatuated with him and Jon lets his mask slip around Sansa whilst in Dæny's presence... Look, anyone who subconsciously, or consciously, believes themselves to be "exceptional" in any way (and Dæny does, quite clearly) is going to take significant issue with that, I think.

So, possibly! But I think it would depend of whether or not Sansa, Jon, and Dæny are all in the same place together. Having Dæny realise Jonsa is a thing and then to feel jealous/threatened makes more sense to me if Sansa is actually there, so the reader, as well as Dæny, can witness the contrast between them, plus Jon's dynamic and feelings towards them. If Jon is smart though, I'd assume he'd want to maintain a certain and strict degree of separation between anything that could make his mask crack and the task at hand, i.e. getting this proud, exceptionalist Targ with dragons onboard with the fight against the Others. If I was him I'd keep Sansa (as well as the other Starklings) and Dæny as far away from each other as possible, and I would never speak about Sansa in her presence, I'd keep everything vague and ambiguous, lmao. But perhaps the plot will foil that plan, because it would certainly be interesting material to play with... but who really knows... not me, that's for sure!

Thanks for the ask!

#jonsa #jon x sansa #cappy's thoughts #anti jonerice #anti d*ny #dark!dany #amended my tags!#using what feels appropriate #not really an anti #more like indifferent and uninterested lmao

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fedonciadale · 4 years

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Master meta post

*** Edit: Please check the pinned post on this blog! This post will not be updated anymore as the original owner of the blog, my mother, has passed away.***

Master meta post

So I decided to put together some of my metas/ask posts (that tend to become metas occasionally) for convenience and pin this post.

I have not yet linked all (obviously), but I will revisit this post once in a while and add links...

Also for my numerous ask - evolved into metas I usually added some that I think are representative.

ASOIAF - Bookwise

Meta series on “Singers singing songs and their impact on character in ASOIAF”: part 1: Jon

part 2: Sansa

part 3: Daenerys

part 4: Starks and Lannisters

An ask about Florian and Jonquil (note the excellent additions!)

What is a bittersweet ending? (x, x, x, x)

Meaning of Ice and Fire

GRRM is not a Nihilist

First men and Children of the Forest

Politics in ASOIAF/GoT

Legitimacy of Kings in Westeros

Claim to the throne, right to the throne and the making of Kings

Daenerys and her understanding of history

Marriage annulment

Northern Independence asks (x, x, x)

Food sharing in Westeros

Parallels to Wars of the Roses

Starks

Sibling dynamics: Everyone was the odd one out once in a while

Sansa and Arya (mostly answers to Did Sansa bully Arya? (x, x)

Succession in the North: Was Sansa disinherited (x, x, x, x, x, x, x, x)

Septa Mordane

Dragons vs. direwolves

Targaryens

Would Jon on the throne mean a Targ restoration?

Why did the Targs practice incest and what are the political repercussions?

Jon Snow’s Targ name

Shipping:

Jonsa, Jon€rys and the logic of shipping

Shipping and canon shipping

Why is Jonsa hated?

Bulverism

Show rants:

Catfight at Winterhell: rant, asks (x)

Annulment of marriages in the Middle Ages

Daenerys and her understanding of history

Doubts prior to season 8

Circular storytelling

The full cirlce of Westeros

Why the endgame doesn’t make sense: 1 (Bran) , 2 (Tyrion), 3 (Arya), 4 (Sansa), 5 (Jon)

Women:

Women in Westeros and misogyny - Cersei

Women in Westeros and misogyny - Brienne

Sansa and Feminism

Arya and her feminitiy

Catelyn the advisor

Comparison of Jonsa with other ships

Jonsa and Jon€rys (my oldest post, Nov 2016)

In General: Incest, Endogamy, Exogamy, Genetic attraction phenomenon

Cousin marriage in the Middle Ages

In-world opinions on Cousin marriage, Targ incest

Does a Jonerys marriage solve any problems?

Foreshadowing for Jonsa, Jon€rys and J0nrya

Jonerys foreshadowing

Why Jonerys is incompatible

Comparison of Jonsa and Jonerys foreshadowing

What was GRRM’s original idea?

J0nrya and the original outline

So called J0nrya foreshadowing (= Jonsa foreshadowing in disguise)

Will there be a Jon€rys baby? (x, x, x, x, x)

Arya and Jonsa, J0nrya reunion

Political J0nrya marriage after Sansa’s death?

J0nrya as a possibility in books and show

Anti Dany/Jon/Sansa threesome for Targ restoration

Anti Sansan

Anti Sanrion

Does Jon have a crush on Alys?

Alys Karstark as possible marriage candidate

Sansa Stark

The Trident incident (x, x)

The ‘Horseface’ question

Precanon crush?

Sansa is Jon’s type

Arguments against Sansa and “Rickard Forrester” as a rando last minute love interest

The Broken Tower in Winterfell

Sansa’s ‘betrayal’

Sansa won’t be disfigured

Sansa’s wishes

Sansa and the Northerners

Sansa and Alysanne Parallels

Sansa and Lady

Dany and Sansa as foils

Sansa as the ‘original villain‘

Does Sansa trust Littlefinger?

Is Sweetrobin getting poisoned?

Sansa and Sweetrobin

Ned and Cat

The man who passes the sentence

Was Ned in love with Ashara and did he have sex with her?

Ned and Cat as parents

The Starks value life

Literal tropes:

Relationship tropes in GoT and ASOIAF

Accidental incest and secret parentage and their outcoming

The function of secret parentage in fiction

What even is incest?

Jonsa and Beauty and the Beast

Fairy tales:

The trickster cat

The Bear and the Maiden fair

The Pig boy

Allerleirauh

Comparisons with Tolkien:

Beren and Luthien: part 1, part 2, part 3

Aragorn and Arwen

The Girl in Grey:

Various asks on the Girl in Grey (x, x, x, x, x)

DarkDany stuff

Why conquer Westeros at all?

A Storm that hits

Conquerors landing on the shore

Will Dany die as a saviour?

Questioning sharply (Dany’s descent into darkness)

Dany and politics

Dany’s ‘hero’s journey’

Dany and Galadriel

Setting up Dany as a villain: the Leni Riefenstahl connection (mostly @une-nuit-pour-se-souvenir but it started with my ask

Dany is not an abolutionist

Fire and Blood:

Methods of foreshadowing

Alysanne

Jaime

Succession in Fire and Blood

Fire and Blood tidbits

Will Arya kill Dany?

Archmaester Glydaen and his bias

Political Jon

Jon the Player, Jon the Deceiver?

Cersei and Aurane Waters as a parallel to Jon and Da€nerys

Deceiving and Lying Starks

Jon the Negotiator

Jon’s political skill on the show

Starks and their political skills

Asks about Political Jon (x, x, x)

Other:

Jaime Lannister as Hand of the King

Jaime as Hand - Hints in F&B (1, 2)

Tully mud, blood, death and sudden change

Rains of Castamere and the futility of revenge

Stark words and Stark obligations

Parallels to Outlaw King

Crack:

Why we should ship Tormund and Dany

HP Verse:

Everything wrong with the HP verse

Good Slytherins

Internalized misogyny in HP and the girly girl

Is S.P.E.W fake woke?

Grey characters in HP

Classism in the HP verse

Is Draco smart?

Hogwarts sorting: How it should go

JKR’s writing

Arthur Weasley and muggles or classism in HP

On redemption arcs: Draco,

On ships in HP: Fremione and Harmony; Anti Romione

My thoughts on : Ginny, Ron

#Jonsa #ASOIAF meta #Masterlist #Mastermetalist #Meta list

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onhersleeve · 4 years

Text

the (in)validation of jonsa

never in my many years of fandom experiences (over two decades i might say) i encountered such hostile reaction towards the existence of a ship like the asoiaf/got fandom has towards jonsa. and for fucks sake, i've been in the internet long enough to know that they were smut fics written about dobby that met less hatred and disgust than jonsa.

people within the jonsa fandom have to constantly encounter animosity of strangers who are appalled by the fact that people like jon and sansa together, and constantly make us justify why we ship them as a couple, even though that doesn't happen to other couples in the fandom.

it is not because they were raised as siblings, otherwise jonr/a wouldn't be a thing and they don't meet not even a tenth of the hate jonsas do. it's not because they are related either, otherwise jon/rys wouldn't exist either and we all know a grand majority seems to belive they are the acceptable couple to ship.

it all comes to the underling point: sansa and the fact that jonsa is not a ship that punishes or ‘humbles’ sansa in any way or form and is not there to teach her a lesson. otherwise why people don't bat an eye for her being romantically shipped with men twice/trice her age, who are clearly predators and/or had a hand on her family's deaths?

jonsa seems to cause more dislike and the feeling of aversion than sansa with men who tried (or thought of) raping her or have no sense to be with her narrative wise (i mean, the amount of grown ass adult men i see people shipping sansa with is ridiculous). but why is jonsa that brings the fury?

to me it is the fact that for years sansa had been villainized by the fandom and people simple accepted the collective headcanon that sansa stark was nothing but a vain and unimportant character who is to blame for the bad things that happened to the stark family, and not the grown ass adult men (in which many are shipped with her) who actually caused it all.

this is why sansa and jonsa fans are know as the “worst” by some people of the fandom. because for so long in the past it was okay to spill hate towards sansa and no one would bat an eye, they would just add to the list reasons why she suck.

but then sansa fans grew strong and confident, and many of which shipped sansa with jon (for many different reasons) and that started to piss off people, because jon is a good guy. jon is the hero. how dare people give sansa a hero to love and love her back, she needs to be taught a lesson, she needs men who are old enough to be her father, who look at her as a piece of meat and property and who narratively wise will keep her as a lesser, in a low position where she belongs.

and with this comes the invalidation from the fandom. because we cannot just ship them just because, which is the most valid reason to like and ship a couple: you like them together and that is it. but no, we have to justify it over and over, from people who do not ship it and post in our tags demanding to hear a good reason we like such ridiculous couple, to people reblogging our work and metas to say how wrong and delusional we are or the bombarding of anons jonsas seem to get, no matter how big or small their blogs are, to shame or insult them for shipping the couple.

i mean, how many times we, sansa and jonsa fans, have our opinions invalidated not only about our favorite couple and characters in the books/show, but anything else related to the fandom because we are sansa/jonsa fans? in fact, even those who are not sansa/jonsa stans but that seem to go against the grain of what the majority of the fandom believes (or against the fans or a certain character and house) they are labeled sansa/jonsa fans and hence unworthy of being heard.

that actually is something i see often, not only on tumblr or on twitter, the use of being a sansa/jonsa fan against others, but recently i saw it happen in another place, where a person in an extremely respectful manner had answered why they didn’t think dny deserved better (it was about a buzzfeed article who mentioned characters that were ruined by the writing out of nowhere) simply because they believed that while the last two seasons were rushed and terribly written, the narrative of the character’s downfall was something that had been hinted previously. someone had the rude reaction of simple going “lol you are clearly a sansa stan, can’t be taken seriously” before attacking sansa and the starks (and no, that person was not a sansa stan/fan).

why, why does it matter if i like character x with character y so much? what does that interfere with their fandom enjoyment? how does the existence of jonsa affect them so much to the point they cannot believe people like them and decide to ridicule anyone and everyone who likes them, stalking their blogs and tags, screen capping their posts to laugh at and share with their friends over how ridiculous these delusional jonsas are and how they and sansa fans suck and are the worst part of the fandom.

why do do we have to constantly validate our love for these characters, together and apart, justifying the reasons why? is there some mythical jonsa forefather/foremother creature that in the no so distant past were the fandom was created committed atrocities and henceforth besmirching the good name of those who came after? i think not.

so why is your ship valid and ours not? why do we have to perform to you, cater to you and explain to you why they are relevant to us? so good lord let us be, we are not here for you.

#jonsa #anti asoiaf fandom #anti got fandom #lys rants #i'm sorry my fellow jonsas for my constant ranting of these past days #with with the anons i've received and overall how i see people i follow (sansa and jonsa fans) constantly having to reason #why they like what they like i've had enough #lys talks jonsa #lys talks fandom

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amedetoiles · 4 years

Note

give me a character meme! wwx please!!

[All gifs made by me. No stealing or reposting, thank you. ♥︎]

★ How I feel about this character

I love wwx so much and he deserves so much!!! My feelings for him can be summed up by my first ever meta in this fandom, this half-crack half-shitpost, and the many many meta tears scattered across all the tags on my page that various people have yelled at me for. I love him. I love him, I love him, I love him. No character has wrecked me as much as this stupid chaotic ass, who is so inherently good and selfishly selfless it fucking hurts. Yet, for all the love and care he gives freely to everyone else, he can’t for the life of him compute any that others have given to him. He tries so hard to be good, to make the right choices even in impossible, horrendous circumstances, and it’s excruciatingly painful watching him realize again and again that even good choices paved with good intentions can cause destruction. He suffers so much because of it. He suffers before we even really meet him. @cangse-sanren wrote “Your parents were bright smears of color and laughter to you, but little more” in this beautiful fic, and I still weep about it daily.

I love how immensely protective he is of both his siblings. He just tries so goddamn hard to be what everyone needs. I could and have and will continue to cry about him every day. How his pathological tendency to repress all things that hurt him, to cover up his pain in humor and obnoxiousness and bravado, and his internalized belief that he is worth much less than everyone else, all converged into the most awful way possible. How despite losing his sect, his siblings, his friends, he was still trying up until the very end. God, what a fantastically complex fucking character. To watch him bloom again after that deluge of rage and grief and insanity 13/16 years later was the most satisfying journey anyone could possibly depict. To know that he has the chance to heal, to recover, to grow with all the different parts of his family he once thought lost forever now back in his reach (yes! even our angry grape!!). Truly amazing.

★ All the people I ship romantically with this character

WangXian!!!! These kids who came out of endless tragedy and trauma to find a love, a trust in each other–theirs is a love story that truly extends across space and time. It warms my heart to watch them rebuild their lives together into something warmer, and brighter, and happier than either of them ever grew up knowing. To watch them shed the psychological trauma on what it means to love and be loved given to them by their terrible parental figures and say, “No. We’re going to be better than that.” I love how they complement one another. How loudly and quietly they love each other. How in the warm security of each other’s embrace, they are each able to work through their own internalized traumas without judgement. Lan Wangji’s uncompromising devotion. Wei Wuxian’s fierce protectiveness. It’s hard to say who else could fit together so perfectly. What a joy it is to watch Wei Wuxian realize that he is no longer alone, that Lan Wangji is and will always be standing beside him. What a joy it is to watch Lan Wangji realize that this is not the dream he’s spent years suffering through, that Wei Ying has returned to him against all odds. What a fucking joy it is to watch them both learn to trust happiness, to trust love, to trust each other. GOD. *wails*

★ My non-romantic OTP for this character

YUNMENG SHUANGJIE. YUNMENG SIBS. YILING SIBS. A-YUAN AND HIS TWO DADS. All the different found families that permeated the story was just breathtakingly beautiful. They all fucking gutted me. It all at once makes Wei Wuxian’s story that much more beautiful and that much more tragic. For a child who lost his parents before he even had time to remember them, who then had to rebuild his family again and again, only to lose them each time in increasingly horrifying ways–it truly fucked me up. Wei Wuxian stood on that cliff in Nightless City, and it was visibly clear that he wanted nothing more than to join all the families he loved and watched die (because of him).

The beauty of his story of course is that for all the tragedy that he is subsumed by, for all the ways that he is wronged and has wronged, there are equal, if not more, number of ways that he is lifted, is healed, is shone a light through all the darkness. In the end, his families return to him. Wen Ning, who lived despite it all, carrying the memory of his sister, the best doctor in the world. His shijie shining through his bratty nephew’s heart of gold. His very own A-Yuan, kept safe and protected all these years by his soulmate, his zhiji. His angry grape of a little brother who can’t say I forgive you but tosses him Chenqing that he’s kept safe all these years and says I trust you. They’re all a little broken, a little worse for wear, but there’s something extraordinarily beautiful about these families who find each other again through the bridges they rebuild towards something better.

★ My unpopular opinion about this character

Oh man, I’ve seen a lot of debate about wwx that I try not to get into (I type this of course as I ready myself to do exactly that). Probably the most unpopular opinion (possibly?) I have is that I don’t personally feel like the addition of a second flautist and expanding Jin Guangyao’s villain-ry in CQL detracted or reduced Wei Wuxian’s complex morality–one of my favorite and best parts to his character. I still think he is very gray. His tragedy is still contingent on his naive idealism and his willful blindness that a person only needs to be righteous and honorable regardless of reputation and politics. This clearly isn’t the case. Not just for him, but for all the characters. You can do everything right and still be punished. You can do everything right and still cause others pain. You can be the most hypocritical, loudmouthed piece of judgmental shit and still remain unpunished and available to share your stupid ass ignorant opinions on matters that have nothing to do with you. (Whoops that got away from me.) Wei Wuxian learns this repeatedly. It’s excellent and heartbreaking.

The thing about Wei Wuxian is that for all that he has imposter syndrome, for all that he is unable to see that he is a person worthy of the love he receives, he is still not only extremely confident in his own abilities and in his beliefs of what is right and what is wrong, but also that he is the person who can decide that line between justice and evil. An arrogant assumption, and one that causes not only him but the people he strives to protect a significant amount of pain. This wasn’t lost in CQL. While the plot technically does absolve him of all of his crimes on a surface level, it’s clearly not as simple for Wei Wuxian himself. In the Ancestral Hall, Wei Wuxian stares at the names of Jiang Fengmian, Madam Yu, and Jiang Yanli, whose lives are heavily felt on his shoulders, and he tells Lan Wangji, “After all, the Stygian Tiger Seal was created by me. Whether Jin Guangyao was there or not, that fact can’t be changed.” The show despite its censorship still asks the audience to evaluate his actions and the role he played, both willing and unwillingly, in the deaths of so many people.

It is also shown clearly that the cultivation world only stops trying to kill him because there was now another target, another scapegoat to blame. This is something that Wei Wuxian knows and expresses on multiple occasions on the show. For all that the show may have change things, I don’t think it’s necessarily correct or fair to say that it completely washed away the nuance that was present in the novel. The overarching conflicts and questions are still there. What is moral and what isn’t, what is justified and what isn’t, who is at fault for unforeseen consequences and who isn’t, and the role of external factors and circumstances in all of this. As someone who watched the drama first, I didn’t feel that the complexity of all the characters and their decisions was lost at all in comparison to the novel I later read. The show was honestly superb and still the best version for me overall. (Please don’t send pitchforks.) I have so much more to say about this, and Jin Guangyao still being a great nuanced character foil, but alas, this is already too long.

Other things: Wei Wuxian is a good brother actually, and he knows Jiang Cheng very well. He tried his best under the worst possible circumstances, and it was a great big shit show. I hate discussions where people try to hold one brother more responsible than the other. They both very nobly (and very recklessly) sacrificed a great deal for each other, and they both, frankly, fucked up. They’re Twin Idiots, and I’ll love and drag them both equally dammit! With that in mind, Wei Wuxian’s happy ending isn’t just him joining GusuLan sect, novel be fucking damned (yes, I said it!). His home can be in Gusu and Yunmeng. *SLAMS FISTS* Let 👏 Wei 👏 Wuxian 👏 go 👏 home 👏. (Talking to you, my grape guy. Jin Ling is going to show up in Lotus Pier one day with his da-jiu, and you’re just going to have to deal with it.)

★ One thing I wish would happen / had happened with this character in canon.

WEI WUXIAN PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD HUG YOUR DIDI. Jiang Cheng has been waiting 16+ years for your hug, and he damn well deserves one, especially since he gave you such a great octopus hug, all limbs and burrowed scrunchy faces. Like, I know, I know, you were distraught, and traumatized, half-beaten to death after three days of intense surgery, then reaped by ten thousand undead souls calling for revenge, but guess who told your favorite (only) angry grape little brother that in the next life, let’s be brothers again okay? GUESS WHO IS LIVING HIS NEXT LIFE??????? Bruh. Chop chop. Hop fucking to it.

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littleeyesofpallas · 4 years

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I started doing this rambling Bleach posts before the Bloodwar Arc adaptation was announced, and I kind of don’t have a whole lot to say about the final arc, as I don’t think it was nearly as interesting or ever showed nearly as much promise as the early Arrancar arc did. But if there was anything I was going to really tweeze out of it for my particular brand of meta commentary, it’s these little details floating around at the start of the Blood War arc about the ambiguous nature of the new Quincy... but unlike the Arrancar arc, Kubo didn’t really lay any of them out with any clear direction, just a vague sense that things were off that he never really came back to in any meaningful way...

It started with Asguiaro Ebern’s appearance and his very distinct banter about not wanting to be identified as an Arrancar, but (implicitly) as a Quincy. We’d seen from Uryuu’s various spotlight moments over the series that “Quincy Pride” was a pillar of the Quincy idea so this had a lot of interesting implications about Quincy cultural identity and the kind of implicit brainwashing and indoctrination it would take for an Arrancar to want to be a part of that sense of identity.

(Not going to quibble over Viz’s translations as much (for once) Asguiro’s bit here at least was pretty straight forward.)

And this was built upon with Yhwach’s callous discarding of the only two Arrancar recruits we’d ever actually see, as well as Qulige Opie and his Jagdarmee troop being shown actively hunting/recruiting try Arrancar in Hueco Mundo.

Another weird detail is that while Asguiaro and Quilge’s troops are all shown to summon up fairly conventional bow shaped projectile weapons with their 5 pointed Quincy crosses, Quilge’s personal Quincy weapon is something that looks more like a cavalry saber. (albeit sans the curve in the blade) We do see that he can fire projectiles from it as well, but Uryuu made a pretty explicit point of it during his fight with Cirucci back in Los Noches, that Quincy only ever use a bow and that it’s tied to their factional identity. So it’s also particularly strange because he draws his sword on Ichigo as “proof” that they are Quincy, which the sword would normally contradict.

But Kubo really took the time to very deliberately build the scene to show in detail how Quilge wasn’t just swinging around any old sword, but that he summoned it up the same way a Quincy like Uryuu would his bow.

I think this wasn’t so much inconsistency in how the Quincy work where Kubo just felt like doing something different for the sake of aesthetic (the way he gave up on the Arrancar uniforms being “uniform” partway into the arc just for the sake of making the new ones look more interesting) as it was a very deliberate attempt to make the new enemies a kind of confusing change up of the Quincy identity --right along side the thing with the Arrancar, even if that detail would also be ditched in the long run... And as we know from a lot of how Kubo (tried) to handle the set up of the Arrancar arc, he’s always been very into blurring the line between otherwise strict factional identities.

This also came as one of the first major new details about this mysterious new enemy faction following Sasakibe’s dying words,

This line was never especially well translated because of the differences in Japanese and English grammar and syntax: The Japanese particles は and を designate subject and direct object, so there is no actual verb in this line, because he dies before he can finish he sentence. Because of how English is differently structured, there’s not really a way an English speaker would form a sentence that would give both a subject and object but fail to give the relation between them.

Viz, with the benefit of having plenty of ground covered by the time they got around to translating just looked ahead in the plot to retroactively make the line, “Th... They... Our Bankai... They can make it—” Although some fan translations back during the actual weekly publication had tried to make sense of the line in English as, “...The... They can... ...Bankai...!!” But honestly it could have just been translated as, “...They... Bankai...” It would be accurate word for word, it just wouldn’t sound like a coherent sentence, but I think that would’ve been the more reasonable trade off.

At this point it’s also worth noting that Asguiaro had already tried to steal/seal Ichigo’s Bankai, but since it didn’t actually work we didn’t know what he was trying to do just yet. The actual Bankai theft detail wouldn’t come until later. So, when Quilge pulls a sword on Ichigo it’s kind of a big deal because after the whole thing with the Arrancar being defined in part by their acquiring a zanpakutou the idea that Quincy had swords and something about “bankai” was a really juicy hook for the start of the new arc.

More over, once the first attack on Seireitei starts we don’t actually see a whole lot of full fights but we do get a glimpse of some weapons, that are all very un-Quincy-like:

Although Jugram Haschwalth does cut down a shinigami we don’t actually see his sword during this attack (he swings his arm in a blur from under his cloak)

My bad, I forgot, we do get our first glimpse of his sword when he break Tensa Zangetsu at the ve~ry end of the attack.

Bambietta is seen wielding a broad bladed saber

Cang Du has his Wolverine claws

And Yhwach himself wields sword

Royd Lloyd uses the same sword while impersonating him

Yhwach does wield a conventional Quincy bow, but he only uses it to summon another sword...

On the other side of things, some of the Quincy do stick to the projectile weapon theme, but none of them are bows:

Driscoll Berci wields the same javelin/spear type weapon that was first seen as having killed Saskibe, which is clearly a spirit particle weapon like the classic Quincy bows

We see Äs Nödt’s “thorns” (which only sort of count as projectiles(?) They aren’t really shot or projected at any sort of speed, they just seem to float around and then kind of stab and impale?)

Robert Accutrone has a hand gun

Shaz Domino uses throwing knives

and then in a few fringe cases...

Bazz-B, NaNaNa Nahjakoop, and Mask de Masculine all appear unarmed

Bazz and Mask both fighting with hand-to-hand combat

NaNaNa doesn’t actually get shown fighting Rose and he appears unarmed when he jumps Yamamoto along with Bazz and As

Bazz-B’s kind of known for using a crossbow now, but it wouldn’t actually appear until much later

Also PePe kind of shows up in a super awkward framed shot as a shoe and he’s controlling Jidanbo and Rin as his only means of attack

And Jerome Guizbatt appeared to have attacked Zaraki by hand in ape form

And not directly related, but it’s pretty odd that Royd impersonaing Yhwach is the only time this entire arc we see any of the Quincy actually use Quincy spells and tools

At this point we don’t see the Wandenreich in action again for a prolonged period of time, and with the 4 stolen bankai in the Quincy medallions the implicit link between that mystery and the lack of bows just kind of dissipated.

But when we see Masaki, Ryuuken and Kanae during Isshin’s flashback story we see the Quincy back to using exclusively bows. So the choice to make the Sternritter all non-bow weapons as a distinction from proper Quincy still seems super deliberate...

I remember Quilge’s sword being a big deal back when the chapter first came out in some circles of discussion, but the general idea that it was a sign of something bigger to come didn’t really carry forward into the rest of the arc, even as Bambietta and Yhwach showed up with their own swords.

But looking back on the completed arc now, what really feels odd about all this is the late arc development where Jugram’s sword is supposed to be this special thing for him because he can’t use Quincy powers properly. And I get that is slips through the kind of gray area where because it’s revealed to be an actual physical sword and not a spirit construct like Qulige’s it still technically works in the strictest in-world logic, but it’s really awkward from a writing standpoint that he definitely highlighted that detail as if it was fixing up a plothole. But Jugram having a sword and not a bow was never the part that felt out of place; It was the fact that everyone else didn’t have bows that was weird, and that never did get explained.

All the bows that the Sternritter did use...

the 4 girls

Bazz-B’s crossbow

Pernida’s finger bows

Askin’s bow

...came after the training break in the middle of the arc, and in general a lot of things Kubo tried to set up at the start of the arc didn’t really get addressed in round 2 of that invasion.

Further muddling things is this really odd detail that in Jugram/Bazz-B’s flashbacks to the indistinct past, Hubert wields a saber similar to Quilge’s despite ostensibly being a purebred and more orthodox Quincy. And although he wasn’t involved in the actual plot of the arc he first appeared as a hallucination zombie/skeleton/ghost to Royd mimicking Yhwach’s form (complete with memories, supposedly) during the fight with Yamamoto. So it’s not super clear, but its entirely possible his actual character design could have included that sword as far back as the start of the arc, rather than being a part of his reappearance in the arc’s endgame phase. It’s not a detail that can really be pinned down or taken to mean anything on it’s own, but it does just kind of noticeably orbit this subject...

#Bleach #tybw #Quincy #Wandenreich #Sternritter

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gerrydelano · 4 years

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multi part ask under the cut! i am going to be killed with hands i guess! (thank you SO much @loverboybutch!!!!)

if you happen to send any more in this thread i’ll edit this post with them! this is actually good it means i can reply to each individual one.

ok I gotta fire this off before I read anything about gnc jongeorgie bc that deserves an essay. the miriam and moses references? absolutely flawless. the way that gerry slowly starts internally calling himself gerry the more he warms up to Jon? kills me every time. I would like to gently tell this child that he does not have to play the hero!!! he is not evil for what his mother has done to him!!! god!!! your writing and characterization is so painfully accurate. (1)

oh yeah the gnc jongeorgie is a lot have fun with that buddy!

MIRIAM AND MOSES REFERENCES! fuck yeah! i am so excited to post my miriam meta in a little bit, i wanted to answer asks first, so keep an eye out for That!

also YES! there are a few moments where it goes back and forth between “gerard” and “gerry” for both of them, and it’s like:

chapter 1, gerry offers up his name as “gerard” after deciding to go with what he’s used to, it’s the only thing that makes sense

chapter 2, jon starts off calling him “gerard” because that’s what he was given, but he pops out the nickname to try convincing nana they’re better friends than they are. still uses “gerard” in his head for a bit though.

but then jon started calling him “gerry” in his narration when gerry hugged him on the couch instead of Bullying Him, and when he realized he was crying. from then on, in jon’s mind, that never stops or changes.

chapter 3, gerry still calls himself “gerard” because he hasn’t gotten used to it yet, and he’s still being put in situations where he’s gotta focus on Scary Things and also the end with nana puts him in survival mode

chapter 4, miriam just uses “gerard” and it is painful

chapter 5, jon uses “gerry” without fail every single time

chapter 6, gerry starts using “gerry” for himself right from the start, until the dissociative portion where he doesn’t refer to himself with Any name. then he only uses it for the moment that he hugs jon one last time, and is trying to commit something to memory, before all names disappear again, and then m*ry says “There’s my Gerard.” and sets him back in progress.

chapter 8 he uses “gerard” again because. well!

chapter 10 is a surprise! but a lot of things change.

so i’ve been doing this all on purpose! i was worried that people might think i was just switching them carelessly and whatnot but i definitely have a reason for why i use which name and when, who is using it, what gerry’s mental state is, where he’s at in terms of himself. i care him. SORRY FOR THE RAMBLE I JUST. LOVED THAT LITTLE TRICK JHBKN. and i love that people pick up on it!

he does not have to play the hero :’( but he will anyway. and boy do i die!!!! i’m glad my characterization is good!

(2) also all the little Archivist!Jon bits about how he has to See and Know and tying that into his autism and his curious 8 year old demeanor is just. chefs kiss. the symbolic SIGNIFICANCE of him forgetting his glasses upstairs to cling to gerry is gonna drive me insane. like!!! there are entities of hope and love!!! he has so little control and it really hurts. ugh.

baby archivist YEAH! he sure has to see and know things!!!! he IS just a precocious autistic 8 year old but there is Definitely something more there and i love him so much. my favorite thing to write was when he would crowd under gerry’s line of sight when gerry ducked his head down and away and just. demanded to be seen and acknowleged. g-d.

and YES HIM LEAVING HIS GLASSES UPSTAIRS. that bit was important to me AND to gerry and i so wanted someone to pick up on that THANK you.

(3) also your description of Jon as a kid just felt like coming home. I was never that into dinosaurs but when I was 8 Greek mythology was my SHIT. the subtle references about him being particular w his food and needing sauce on the side? felt that!!! also tv static absolutely fucks! I also used to find secret corners in the library where I lived as a kid. mentally this entire fic played out in my childhood home so you can tell how hard I am consciously and subconsciously vibing here.

:’) !!!! autistic jon is the only jon i will NEVER NOT make that an incredibly relevant part of how i portray him. the TV STATIC! HELL YEAH! FORESHADOWING! oh my g-d though nice WE VIBING.

(4) jon is just so Excellently written I love him. the big words that he doesn't even realize other people don't know?? pressure stimming?? I am going to kin tf out of your Jon I s2g. also the depiction of an autistic child whose family understands them and cares for them in a way that's healthy... that doesn't try to suppress their nature... crying cat emoji. nana is really just doing her best huh!!! we absolutely stan!! tysm for this I am going to skip my homework and read more

thank you so much! he’s a big reader! he’s got a big vocabulary! and sometimes he’s gonna use it incorrectly and that’ll be the best shit because that’s what kids do! and YEAH! PRESSURE STIMMING! boy when you get to chapter 9 you’re gonna yell.

also yes at miriam caring for him re: his tism - gonna post that meta SOON and you will YELL. she is doing her best!

PLEASE DON’T SKIP YOUR HOMEWORK YOU BETTER HAVE DONE IT OML

chapter 7. I am like 5 paragraphs in and I'm gonna frame it on my wall. thank you for providing the essential service of accurate depictions of butch women you are a hero and an icon

i am HERE to write BUTCHES and FEMMES and FEMME ADJACENT NONBINARY PEOPLE WHO DO NOT ACTUALLY USE THE WORD/NEVER WILL BUT DO HAVE THE RANGE.

okay yes if you send others i’ll put them in here to keep it all in one place i’m!!!! thank you so much for the thoughtful comments i’m sorry for infodumping i am, like jon, a huge autism, and cannot shut up, ever. i really am glad you enjoyed it!

#asks #loverboybutch #tsp tag #we are out here Dissecting!

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tragedry · 3 months

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i think ashler is at its core is the kind of ship where two like-minded individuals are able to not only challenge each other for their betterment, but they're also able to see through each other's shortcomings and offer their support.

i'll go into detail about what i'm talking about once i finally compile (and straighten out) all of my thoughts into a meta post, but for now let me just say that what i find so interesting about them is that they have the potential to be the type of ship that not only fits the "i would kill/die for you" dynamic, but would be able to offer each other rest. they are the "i would take a break for you, i would be able to rest and take it easy for you, specifically because i know i am not alone, you are here with me, and that reassure is enough to keep my thoughts at bay"

it's the appeal of tyler (who at a young age has been set to taking the responsibility of making the big decisions for his family) being able to trust that ashlyn is capable enough for him to entrust his loyalty and his obedience to her, and in turn ashlyn (someone who is only just starting to feel the weigh of everyone's life on her hands) has someone like tyler (who's entire life has been experiencing what she's going through) to question her choices so that she can make sure that every plan she makes and sets will have little to no drawbacks, thus strengthening her role as leader.

sure they may have started off pretty shaky at first, but look at them now, and see how much potential they can have— especially now when they've become so much closer and trusting of each other.

also, look me in the eyes and tell me this post isn't ashler-coded to you (you can't)

#ashler #tylyn #school bus graveyard #tyler hernandez #ashlyn banner #sbg #ry does meta #ashler my beloved ⚾🎧#i will not shut up about this #i am spreading the ashler agenda one day at a time ✌️

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spiringempress · 5 years

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jonsa thoughts and the whole ‘duty is the death of love’

Hiya. So, I wrote this one night at 2am months ago and I let it languish in my drafts. I only just remembered it because I was reading a post about Jonsa, and the whole duty and love line then went “hey that sounds familiar.” Please forgive any similarities between this and other metas, but I do argue this from the perspective that Jon isn’t portrayed as being interested in protecting the realm and it’s another angle to put out there.

Early am thoughts. So, I’m having a midnight tumble and looking at this meta about the GOT script when I stumbled across a post that essentially argued that Sansa = love and Dany= Duty. I am blown away. And wondering how I missed that entire perspective. Now, this is super rough as a fair warning.

This entire time I’ve seen it from the Jon*rys perspective. In that, Jon’s love for Dany was placed second to his duty and it effectively ended it. But, I think there are a couple of important points to consider that are NOT clearly defined. One being: what exactly is Jon’s duty?

Sure, he wields some influence. It wouldn’t be hard to say that he’s supposed to protect the realm, but his whole arc wasn’t about the seven kingdoms. It was about the wall, the north, and Winterfell. For me, the only way to argue that Jon chose duty over his love for Dany would be if he saw himself as a protector of the realm but I really don’t think he does. I’m defining protector of the realm here as more in the sense of someone, who strives to use their talents and skills, to defend the kingdom from enemies, serve the sovereign and give their life to do uphold the word of the ruler. So, a knight in service to the king.

Instead, what I am proposing is that Jon saw himself as protector of Winterfell, his family and most importantly, Sansa. What happens after Jon is resurrected? He kinda hangs out at the Wall until Sansa arrives and gives him a purpose: take back Winterfell, save their brother and restore the Starks to their rightful place. In the course of accepting this, Jon also inherently becomes a protector to Sansa, the seemingly last of the Starks. We see this in how he fights during the Battle of the Bastards and his interactions with Sansa, where he promises that he won’t let her got back to Ramsay. In the end, they are able to take back Winterfell and Jon creates a safe space for Sansa.

Now, you can argue that he loves her platonically/as a sibling or more interestingly, Jonsa. Of course, I’m learning towards the Jonsa view. When he goes off to Dragonstone and loses his personality, I still think that pol!Jon was real and it was an attempt to protect Winterfell from Daenerys. If I heard the Dragon Queen was coming and often liked to burn down cities that resisted her, I would definitely be taking a boat to see her and make peace. While Sansa is blatantly asserting Northern independence, Jon is subtly trying to lead Daenery’s attention away with the White Walkers and eventually, Cersei.

Jon succeeds in some capacity but the situation is complicated by his heritage and how Daenerys is not swayed by that. I think this is evident in the scene after the feast and even when she remarks that it will be fear when asked if Jon loves her. He has been called out on his ploy and hints at his ultimate priority being Winterfell. Now, the story falls apart in the last episode but if we look at the script and the actors, I think there’s no doubt that Jon chose Sansa over Dany.

Let’s break this down. If this story was really about Jon being forced to kill the woman he loves to save the world. Then Jon would have been more clearly depicted as a ‘protector of the seven kingdoms’ and we could also argue would have lead to him being king himself (that’s a post for another time). Again, Jon has really never shown an interest in the throne or the political intrigue. Maybe it’s the Night Watch drilled into him, but he’s never depicted as someone like Varys. However, the only way to make sense of Jon killing Dany for duty means that he has to see himself as a realm protector. He has to NOT do it for personal stakes or his family, but instead to serve the realm. It would make their ‘love story’ more focused on them and not on other players. Ultimately, it would’ve also made the story more tragic because Jon’s loyalty to the realm = duty is more important than his love for a tyrant, who is letting the world burn. Can you imagine that story? Jon would have been forced to realize that the woman he loves is b*tshit and that he cannot let her go on. That would have been a masterful performance as Jon comes to term with this and makes up his mind. BUT, this did not happen at all in the show.

Instead, what we get is interesting. Jon goes from questioning Dany’s destruction to having a mind-numbing conversation with Tyrion, where he looks like an ignorant fool. There are important things to notice. He goes from clearly being disturbed by Dany’s destruction to uttering ‘my queen’ until Sansa and Arya are brought up. Tyrion tells him that Sansa will never bow, Jon gets upset but he goes to the throne room and kills Dany. Other players besides the realm are brought into the equation. Jon was perfectly content to let her continue down her path until Tyrion and Arya reminded him about Sansa and Winterfell. If the story was really about Jon protecting the realm then why was it necessary to bring up his family? It’s because that’s what drives his motivation.

Jon chooses duty over love, but not the realm over Dany; he chooses his family and more specifically, Sansa. Whether you look at it romantically or not, Jon gives up the ability to return home and resume his place at Sansa’s side. He chooses to fulfill his duty, i.e. protect Winterfell and Sansa, and kill Dany, which ends in him being exiled once more. You can read this as either him giving up familial love or a chance to be happy with the woman he loves. Ultimately, Jon does not win, but he fulfills his duty and gives up love in whatever form he wanted it.

that’s my ted talk. I’m sorry if you already know this and I am slow to catch up.

#jon snow #sansa stark #anti-daenerys #jonsa

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nanyallen13 · 5 years

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Why the Dark Dany theory isn’t misogynist (+ a little reflexion on female villains)

Misogyny. It’s an argument I see a lot. It seems you can’t criticize Dany’s character, not even one of her action, without be called a misogynist. It’s particularly the case with the Dark Dany theory.

I invite all of you to read it, if you kindly accept to take some of your time for it, because I think it’s an important subject, not just for the GoT fandom.

Also, I’m open to dialogue, that’s why I wrote this. Feel free to share your opinion on this topic.

Disclaimer: I apologize for my English. It’s not my first language, and I’m still learning. So, if some grammatical errors remain, I apologize in advance and hope it won’t bother your reading.

The following post is just my point of view on Dany and the Dark Dany theory, and I know it isn’t universal. But for you to understand my point, here some context:

As a woman, I consider myself a feminist, and I always have been vocal against books, show, movies, tropes or ships I find misogynist.

As a writer, I’m more interested in storytelling and characters’ growth. The Dark Dany theory is very appealing to me because it’s interesting storywise, for Dany’s arc and female characters in general.

I’m not a shipper. In fact, I don’t ship anyone in GoT except Jaime and Brienne. I’m more interested in politics, so my views on ships are more biased by politics interests and potential alliance. I feel the need to specify it because a lot of people believes that if you don’t like Dany, it because of ship war. Yes, I didn’t hide my conflicted feelings about Jone/rys in the past, but it’s about the ship itself, and it just concerns its two characters, Jon and Dany, and their relationship. To be honest, I don’t really ship them with anyone, so… 🤷‍♀️

Dany is one of my favourite character, alongside Sansa and Cersei, and she’s been since the beginning of the show (whereas Sansa has taken Tyrion’s place in the trio since season 6). I like them because they represent different forms of strength, and have this regal presence I love so much. I consider these 3 women as some of the strongest character in the show. But if Dany stayed one of my favourite, my vision of her changed along the way.

This post is mainly about the Dark Dany theory, but like its name says, it’s just a theory. I like it, because it’s interesting storywise, and unlike some people claims, it based of clues and parallels from the show itself. (I won’t list them because the post is long enough, and it’s not the main subject). GoT is a show which has a lot of theories, and I like to discover them. The Dark Dany theory is one of them, and like all these other theories, I’m not convinced at 100% it will happen. I’m just open to a lot of possibilities.

And again, it’s just my opinion and I understand that people will disagree. Honestly, it’s fine. I just hope you’re stay respectful. It took time to write this with constructive arguments, so I expect at least arguments from you in return, and not the usual “you’re a cunt” and “you’re stupid” replies I saw too many times from some Dany fans. Because, frankly, thinking a character isn’t perfect doesn’t make you a cunt.

So, shall we begin ?

Why the Dark Dany theory isn’t misogynist ?

Maybe the term “dark” is misleading, a little bit extreme. When I think of Dark Dany, I don’t see her as an evil villain, a female Joffrey or a Ramsay with dragons. I know this theory has different levels: for some people, it can lead to Mad Queen Dany (in some way, I can understand why, but it’s another topic. Personally, I don’t think the show will go full madness.). For others, she’ll be the final boss of the series (I don’t know. We shall see).

No, when I think Dark Dany, I see her as a potential antagonist. What’s the difference? If antagonists are indeed villains for most of the time, in reality Antagonist ≠ Villain. I recommend you this article, which explains far better than me why an antagonist isn’t always a villain: The Difference between Villains and Antagonists

To summarize it, a villain have bad intentions, is considered as evil (hello Joffrey, you little pi*** of sh**). But not every antagonist is a villain, not every antagonist is evil.

No, an antagonist is simply a character whose actions and motivations go against the protagonist’s. In Dany case, her story arc could lead her against Jon(and maybe the Stark) story arc. So, from the Stark point of view, Dany would be the antagonist. But from Dany’s point of view, the Stark would be the antagonists. (I hope I’m clear lol).

And you know what ? This happens a lot in GoT. This show has a lot of characters, who we learned to love during these past seasons. But during 7 seasons, we saw some character be enemies. The Lannister vs the Stark, anyone? Stannis was a fan favourite (before burning her daughter), but he was against Robb Stark, another fan favourite. But the most interesting example come from s7, during episode 4. The battle was Dany vs. the Lannister, mostly Jaimie. For him, Dany was the enemy, the antagonist. For her, Jaimie was the enemy, the antagonist. They both tried to killed each other! But I think for the majority of the viewer, it wasn’t good vs evil. It was just one character against the other.

So yeah, characters can be on opposite sides, but it doesn’t make them evil villain. The same goes for Dany.

That’s the case for all characters in GoT. They’re not angels, neither are they demons (except for the NK, Joffrey and Ramsay, even Euron ?). They all have some good and some bad in them, they’re not perfect, but that makes them humans. Also, the majority of them have the potential to go to a path of darkness. All of them, except characters whose main trait is innocence (like Hodor, Shireen, even Tommen in some way.).

Dany isn’t an innocent character. She’s not a saint. I don’t see her as the perfect saviour; no she’s more complex than that. She has doubts, she has flaws, and she makes mistakes. As the story progess, we see her get more and more blood on her hands. Like the others, Dany has a dark side. Some may disagree, but we already saw the roots in season 1. But for me, season 5 was the season where she started to make questionable decisions, and some of them are difficult to justify. Season 5 made me realize she wasn’t the Mhysa everyone (including herself) thought she was.

I won’t list all this clues here, but I recommend you this amazing meta by @trinuviel : A Hero in her own mind... On Daenerys Targaryen

I don’t see Dany as a hero, but as an antihero, who has the potential to become an antagonist (some people even see a villain). Again, personal opinion, but that’s why I find her more complex and more interesting than Jon, who falls more in the archetype of the traditional “hero”. From a writer point of view, she’s a better character than Jon.

And you know what ? If she becomes an antagonist, I would love her even more. Because I find antagonist to be so fascinating. That’s why I love Cersei! To me, having a “dark side” ≠ bad character. It would be more original and surprising than Hero Dany, because everyone already expect that, and that a common trope.

But again, it’s my personal opinion, and I understand that Dany’s fans can’t bear the idea of her not being the hero of the story.

But I’m not misogynist when I say Dany could become an antagonist. She won’t be an antagonist because she’s a woman. No, she would be an antagonist because of her actions. If she was a man, it would be the same.

Because being a woman doesn’t excuse your actions. Being a woman doesn’t mean you can’t commit bad things. But that’s a thing you see in our culture. In movies, tv shows, books, etc. There are more male villain than female villain. Because in our culture, women are portrayed as gentle and soft. Most of the time, they can’t exist without maternal love or romantic love. If they aren’t the main character, women will often be the love interest. But the villain? It’s rare.

In a way, saying woman can’t be villain is a form of misogyny. Because female characters don’t need to be written as female first. No, they are, first of all, characters. If a man can be a villain/antagonist, so can a woman.

A woman can be an antagonist against a male protagonist. A woman is not obliged to always be on the man’s side. She can have different opinions, because it’s her right. Her needs, her hopes and dreams, her ambitions are as legitimate as a man’s.

Now, I can explain you why Dany could become an antagonist, and why I’m not a fan of Jone/rys. If some of you ship them together, it’s not against you. You have every right to ship them. But please, respect my opinion.

In some way, Dany’s storyline could lead her to become an antagonist. Again, I’m not even talking about becoming mad, or becoming a villain. But I could see her storyline go against Jon’s.

What’s Dany’s main goal since season 1? For what did she fight during all these seasons? That’s right: the Iron Throne. And what obstacles does she have to defeat? Cersei, the Night King. But in some way, at least in a political way, Jon is an obstacle too. Because he’s the legitimate heir to the Iron Throne. It’s not her anymore.

Actually, Jon’s true identity is the big reveal which bring on the Dark Dany theory. It would be to fulfil her dream of becoming Queen that Dany would go against Jon. Because he’s in her way. From her point of view, she won’t be in the wrong. She would just be fighting for her throne, like she did during all 7 seasons.

And storywise, that would be so clever. Jon against Dany. Two of the most beloved characters against each other. Imagine the heartbreak for the viewers! That’s why, long before their meeting, I liked the idea of them fighting instead of being in love. As a writer, it’s the perfect idea.

I know, some of you will say : “but she’s in love with him”. That’s true. Maybe you’re right. Maybe her love would be more powerful than her ambition. Maybe she won’t care that Jon have a better claim, and she’ll accept that.

But that’s this idea of Jone/rys that I don’t like. After all this time, after all she endured to arrive where she is today, I don’t want her to abandon that just because she loves a man. Her main goal wasn’t to become Jon’s girlfriend. No, Dany’s quest is to become the Queen of the Seven Kingdom. I want her to fight for it to the very end.

I know some of you believe a marriage would be the solution. But even as Jon’s wife, Dany would be the second, not the true heir. I fear she’ll be in Jon’s shadow, just his wife. After all, like Daario said in s6, she’s a conqueror. If she takes the throne, it has to be by conquering it, not be marrying Jon.

Even if this is for love, I don’t like the idea of her giving up her dream for a man.

That why I don’t ship Dany with anyone. She doesn’t need a love interest. Since Drogo’s death, she’s on her own, she fight for her and what belongs to her. Her actions should be for her, and her only. That’s why I like the fact that she doesn’t reciprocate Jorah’s feelings. Other shows would picture Jorah as a victim (“poor guy. How dare she not reciprocate his feeling?” Trust me, it’s a common trope). But just because he loves Dany, it doesn’t many she owes him anything. And it could be the same with Jon.

I want Dany to fight for what she believes, not for her love interest. I think it’s a more feminist message.

That’s why I don’t like the s8 promo so far. She’s depicted as Jon’s girlfriend. In almost every photo, she’s glued to him, like every female love interest. Without the Iron Throne promo where she sits on it, we could almost forget that her main goal is to become queen!

I want Dany to fight for her throne, even if it breaks her relationship with Jon, even she becomes an antagonist. Because she won’t give up her dreams for a man.

And I don’t think it’s misogynist to think that. It’s quite the contrary, actually.

Now, I know that for some people, the Dark Dany theory is bad, because it would mean : a woman who have power = a bad thing, a villain.

I can understand the feeling, but I don’t agree with it. Like I said earlier, I don’t judge Dany as a woman, but as a character.

What many seem to forget, is that Dany ≠ all women. If Dany is an antagonist/villain, it doesn’t mean every woman in power is an antagonist/villain. Dany is a unique character, with a unique backstory, a unique character’s growth, a unique personality. Her unique story would make her an antagonist.

Here, I need your opinion. Compared to Cersei, what do you think? I know Cersei herself is quite a misogynist (she hates her conditions as a woman and envied Jaime’s) but do you think Cersei’s storyline is a misogynist one? Because after all she’s also a woman of power and a villain. Did you saw someone said it was misogynistic? Or it just when people criticize the Dark Dany Theory?

But I know that in every fandom, it’ll always exist some misogynistic a**holes who will be against women in position of power (just look at the recent Captain Marvel controversy). It’s something I already witnessed in the GoT fandom, mainly on Facebook pages, against Sansa. It was stupid arguments, like “she’s a power hungry bitch” just because she dreamed of becoming queen when she was a little girl. (Also, what she first wanted was to be the King’s wife and have his children, not to rule). When she dared to objet one of Jon’s decisions, some fans wanted her to shut up, like she had no right at all. In general, their main problem against Sansa was she dared have ambition. They don’t want her to have anything to say about Winterfell and the North, even if she has the right to. I mean, she’s the trueborn daughter of Ned Stark, she’s his legitimate heir. If someone has the right to say something, it’s her! And you know why these fans don’t want her to have ambition? I’m pretty sure it’s because she’s a girl. At least, it’s one of the main reasons.

So yeah, I’m sure there are people who think the same way about Dany. It wouldn’t surprize me.

But I don’t blame her for wanting/having power. No, I blame her for the way she uses this power.

And actually, having Dany as a villain wouldn’t be a bad thing for female representation. Like I said earlier, there are less female villains than males. And the ones we have, well… it’s bad, guys.

The female villains are often femme-fatale, who are ultra-sexualized and by that reduce to their sexuality. And these female villains are often side-kicks to a man, who’s the main villain. They obey him (sometimes for love), they depend on him. They’re not their own character.

To make an example, I often think of the James Bond girls. For the majority of the saga, we have the good James Bond girls who are like a trophy for the hero (thanks god, they have more agencies in the more recent movies, but still), and the evil James Bond girls. For the evil ones, we have two types: the ultra-sexualized ones (like Xenia Onatopp, Miranda Frost or Electra King) or the masculine ones, like Rosa Klebb or Irma Bunt, who are portrayed as cold, heartless, older, and “ugly”. In both case, they work for a man. (The only good exception was Judi Dench as M. Damn, I miss her).

And back to the topic of powerful women = villains, I think of a more misogynistic way to portray female villain. In Sarah J. Maas’ series (no offense to her fans), A Court of Thornes and Roses, two of the female villains, Ianthe and Amarantha are portrayed as evil witches who use their sexuality to gain power. The narrative villainizing them because they use their sexuality freely. It’s almost slutshaming. The villains are the women who use their body like they want, who are not submissive to the men, who take action against men, who have more power than them. This portrayal is more misogynist because a woman with an active sex life + ambition = an evil slut. In mean, wtf ???? (And it not just these character, it’s the same with all her female villains. That’s why I find this problematic).

But it’s not a same with Dany. Yes, she has her own sex life and does what she wants with her body, but it’s never use to villainize her. She’s her own character, she’s powerful, but it not used against her. Yes, a villain can be a pretty woman on her own, without being a sexual fantasy.

The only good female villain I can think of is Hela from Thor Ragnarok. She isn’t too sexualized, she’s not ugly, she’s her own woman, and she’s powerful. And what’s her goal? That’s right, taking the throne which she believes belongs to her. In a way, Dany as an antagonist could be like Hela, in a less evil way.

(Btw, if you know other female villains like Hela, please tell me. I’m dying to have more characters like her! I’m also curious about the villain played by Jessica Chastain in the upcoming Dark Phoenix movie, she seems to be interesting).

Well, I think I said all I wanted to share on this topic. To summarize: the Dark Dany Theory isn’t simple hate. It’s simply seeing her character from a different point of view. It’s being open to a different storyline.

I understand, and I accept, that some of you don’t like the idea of Dark Dany. But please try to understand, or at least accept, that some of us like this theory. And there is nothing wrong with that.

Feel free to share your views on the topic!

#anti daenerys #anti jonerys #dark dany #anti daenerys targaryen

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