#say what you will about tifa in the original whether you liked her

[strelitzia-mystery1097]

Cloud 'needs so much therapy that it isn't funny' Strife

*spoilers* for Ff7 Rebirth.

So Sephiroth really is trying to break Cloud more than in the original.

To start off, Sephiroth tries to make Cloud think that Tifa wasn't Tifa. That she was fake.

Why would he do that?

Answer: Because she's the one to piece together Cloud's memories. If Cloud can't trust her than he can't trust her account.

He also does his usual tricks of 'Black Materia', 'Puppet', 'Reunion', ect.

But Cloud this time around is constantly getting harassed and manipulated by Sephiroth, like way more than in the OG. Cloud also is coming to different conclusions and ideas from the OG like for example, he's degrading. He thinks that's why his memories are a mess because of degradation.

Even when he takes one step forward by remembering Zack, he then thinks Zack got washed away by the river instead of that infantry guy.

There's even times when Cloud straight repeats something Sephiroth says word for word and it doesn't register to him.

But yeah constantly his mind is under onslaught of Sephiroth.

By the time when we get to the Temple of the Ancients I'd argue that Cloud's mental state is worse than what it was in the OG in the scene when he gives Sephiroth the Black Materia.

In the OG he still has the creepy giggle moment but he snaps out of it. And when he gives the Black Materia to Sephiroth it's an out of body experience where we clearly see Cloud's inner self be against it but powerless to giving his body giving the Black Materia to Sephiroth or to beating up Aerith.

But after that Cloud finally realises something is horribly wrong with him. That Sephiroth can control him and almost doesn't go after Aerith because he's scared of himself.

...And Rebirth Cloud has it worse in my opinion.

There is no inner self. And Cloud is an obedient puppet that Sephiroth is toying with. Sephiroth already had the Black Materia and throws to Cloud and tells him to give it to him, and Cloud is almost eager to obey. Tifa tries to stop him and Aerith does too and Cloud chases after her and it's almost worse than silently beating her up because now he's toying with her while still so eager. She gives it to him and Cloud only snaps out of it after he gives it to Sephiroth. He then tries to save Aerith and well-

He wakes up after the multiverse stuff and the OG dream of Aerith being like 'imma go bye'.

But this time he doesn't freak out, terrified that Sephiroth can control him. He just... doesn't acknowledge it. He just goes on to find Aerith. When Yuffie asks what happened how did Sephiroth get the Black Materia if he didn't beat up Cloud he just goes 'uh...' and when Tifa asks him to let her know if he's getting weird thoughts he asks Tifa about what she means. She gives the example of thinking she's fake and he apologises, but the fact that he doesn't immediately realise that she's also talking about Black Materia is a bit of red flag.

And he might as well be using those red flags later on for semafor because oh my god-

What happened with Aerith's death is weird. At first I thought it was two worlds overlapping but no-

Cloud's mind f^@&ing snapped and thinks he saved Aerith.

That's why Cloud doesn't properly react to Aerith's death. No speech about his feelings and no scene of putting her in the water. He's full on hallucinating her. Whether that is Aerith's ghost or not doesn't matter because he's convinced himself that she's fine.

That's why he talks about Aerith waking up or going home because he can't cope with her being dead.

Sephiroth screwed with Cloud's mind so much here that he genuinely is more insane now than what he was in the OG.

So you can bet when they get to the Northern Crater, Sephiroth will use the truth of Aerith dead along with the truth of Nibelheim to break Cloud even more.

...And now I have to wait 3+ years for part 3. Rebirth really was a gift that gave me despair.

[shuttershocky]

Consider, Barret.

I'm always considering Barret!

He's my favorite FF7 character and his design in Remake is outstanding.

Parts of Barret didn't age too well (his original character concept is "big and scary man" and he's the only major black character so uhhhhh) but I love that he's an unapologetic revolutionary and a genuinely charismatic leader that cares for the people under him as much as for his cause, whether or not they're even his responsibility.

One of the more endearing parts of the Remake is all the ways that Barret still cares for Cloud despite Cloud only being a hired merc instead of being a true believer in Avalanche; he gets worried when Cloud doesn't make it back immediately after they bomb Mako Reactor 1, and when they bomb Mako Reactor 5 and Barret thinks Cloud is about to fall to his death, Barret immediately says "Listen merc, I was wrong about you!" because he won't let anyone under his command die without him doing everything he could, even if all he can do is tell them they made him proud. He even offers to to stay behind and help Cloud battle Rufus Shinra, expecting Rufus to cheat (he does) and not wanting Cloud to sacrifice himself just to buy the party time to escape when that should be his responsibility as Avalanche leader.

He's even a loving father that spoils his daughter Marlene, but instead of making that detail something that contrasts his hardass personality, it's because he has a child that he's a hardcore eco-terrorist—his child's future is on the line.

I love that he's obviously the most well-read party member, quoting books about planetology and social justice in between all of his other lines being a Mr. T caricature. When the likes of Tifa grow uncomfortable with Avalanche's mission because of the ordinary people whose lives they disrupt too, he's always there to steady her and remind them all that their fight is literally for the planet's life; most Shinra employees are ordinary people just trying to do their best for their families, but Shinra itself is slowly destroying the planet and will kill them all, this fight must be done for everyone's sakes. A good man that serves an evil master must recognize his complicity before he can redeem himself.

One of the coolest things the Yuffie DLC does is expand more on Avalanche as a resistance group with different factions, with the main faction receiving support from Wutai. Barret's group is called "the splinter cell" because the other Avalanche factions don't want to associate with them since they think bombing the Mako reactors goes too far. The rest of Avalanche don't want to destroy Shinra entirely and ruin the lives of many people in the process, they want to force it into reforms.

Sonon and Yuffie end up chatting about this and Sonon says "The problem is, Avalanche is made of good people. They're soft. They want things like better work conditions, fair elections, equality for the undercity members. They can't do what needs to be done, and will eventually be against us. If you ask me, those guys in the splinter cell are who we should be supporting." Sonon is speaking as a Wutai agent out to destabilize Midgar in vengeance for Midgar burning Wutai to the ground back in the war, but it also really highlights how Barret is the only real force for change inside Avalanche, if all the other Avalanche factions are getting support from other countries and doing nothing while Barret is waging a full on war and earning victories against Shinra with only a gun, a girl that can punch good, and a twink with a big sword.

Also gameplay-wise Barret carries this fucking team on his back. Steelskin and his huge healthpool make Barret a tank (very important when many enemies can decide to give you the finger and wipe the entire team), and Lifesaver allows Barret to take damage meant for his teammates, which is critical for surviving many tough fights, but also makes gimmick/joke builds like Nailbat Cloud viable where you want to keep him on 25% health to have that crit chance and damage boost, but can't let him get slapped once or he dies.

That's on top of Barret's skills being your best ranged options in Remake that isn't spending MP (Aerith can do way more damage with spells but also dies to a sneeze without spending materia slots on HP Up), which is also highly important as half the enemies are flying around and Cloud can barely air attack until Rebirth reworked him. There's also bossfight gimmicks like The Arsenal's guns being interrupted by Focus Shot (you normally need Thundaga to stop it and Hard mode doesn't let you use items, making MP conservation really important) Maximum Fury being amazing at building stagger on bosses from the sheer hitcount and being very satisfying to use, and Barret's incredible Deadly Dodge allowing you to cheese the super annoying Brainpod fight because he swings his gun and hits all the Brainpods at once.

Finally, it's really funny how the Remake added in a big cosmic fate force called the Whispers that have the ability to raise the dead and cause or prevent disasters as fate demands it only for them to be destroyed by Barret and Red XIII shooting it repeatedly. Capital D Destiny, a fundamental force of the multiverse, was slain by the power of a guy with a gun and a weird dog.

[illumoonated]

Analyzing Tifa Lockhart

*some spoilers for Remake/Rebirth/Original*

This interpretation is not dependent on her characterization from the original ffvii--i.e. this is focused on remake and rebirth.

Tifa gets a lot of flack for not being "interesting" or "complex". But to be honest, I think that's the point. If you don't care to look closer, you're just like the majority of the people she's come across in her life. You've fallen for the mask she's perfected to protect her true self.

Tifa is quick to help others but not quick to believe in herself. She has heard compliments about her appearance from googly-eyed fanboys like a Johnny for a very long time. But she is not vain and does not revel in it. Tifa clearly doesn't want to be known solely for her looks. In fact, I'd say she feels hindered by them.

Now, some people will argue that this isn't a "flaw". "Oh no! Poor girl is too beautiful! How hard that has to be...[sarcasm]." But for Tifa, it means that she's not taken seriously at first glance. She's somehow expected to be perfect because of how she looks. It's a label that others put on her. She is beautiful and therefore she MUST be good.

So what does Tifa do? She desperately tries to live up to that standard. She bypasses the praise and uses it as fuel to be as accommodating as possible. She is a textbook people pleaser. This leaves her feeling in debt to everyone that 'befriends' her.

I say 'befriend' because Tifa herself believes the mask of perfection she wears is who they really like--not Tifa herself. She feels she owes others the blind faith they put in her. In a way similar to Cloud, she's split in two.

There is the light-hearted, happy, accommodating, humble Tifa on the surface. But underneath, there is insecurity, anxiety, and a struggle with imposter syndrome. Still, whether on the surface or deep down, Tifa is always truly selfless, playful, and empathetic. The funny thing is, she doesn't seem to understand that these are what make her special.

She preempts her tears in front of Cloud in Remake by stating that she knows they're a waste of time. Even before Cloud has said a word, she doesn't want to burden him with her weakness--he is not owed "weak" Tifa and she has to apologize for it.

But then Cloud disagrees, and provides space for her to grieve. And that's why I think she is attached to Cloud.

Yes, he is a mystery that needs to be unraveled, and he's from home, and their promise etc. but Tifa can be imperfect in front of Cloud and not be punished for it. In fact, even within Avalanche, Tifa feels like the odd person out.

She is close to her team and trusts them, but blowing up the reactors in Remake causes her to feel emotionally weak and less like a team player. It is only when she's forced to take someone else's place that she can be allowed on another bombing mission.

In Remake, she openly cries in front of Barret after the plate drops. She mourns Jessie, and the others too. But those are 'acceptable' tears. Now, I'm not saying Tifa's cognitively saying "yes, I can now cry" but in a way, she can allow herself to be weak around more than just Cloud when she's grieving because it's not a weakness to care for the lives of others. Tifa unconsciously knows she will not be rejected for being openly upset about sector 7 because it is a shared grief with the rest of the sector.

Sure, Tifa can explain her hesitation to Avalanche about the bombings and be upset about it, but Cloud is the only one who doesn't pass judgement on her emotions. Barret and the others obviously still care for Tifa and value her, but her grey-area hesitation is not going to assist them in achieving their goal which is very black and white.

Tifa is excellent at picking up the nuances of the environment and people around her. She is the first to mention that there are average everyday people working for Shinra. And that nothing is as simple as Avalanche wants it to be.

This tact and empathy is how she leads Cloud out of his own trauma-induced personality rewrite. She doesn't blast her way through like a Barret would, and she doesn't pass judgement on Cloud like so many others have done to her. She simply sits with Cloud, gently guiding him until he can find who he is in his own time.

But there is fear about speaking up. Tifa doesn't want to break Cloud or shatter him. She is afraid that this one person who she can finally be imperfect around will go away, leaving that mask of perfection on permanently.

Cloud is the only person she is both selfless and selfish about. Cloud can handle and cares to see who Tifa is beyond what she projects. He uses their promise as a lifeline back to the person he thinks he is and wants to be. He wants to be a hero. But Tifa doesn't need one. Not in the traditional sense.

She is physically strong, loyal, and tactful. She doesn't hesitate to help othersand doesn't run away from righting wrongs. But sure, maybe back in Nibelheim pre-psycho-sepho she wanted a knight in shining armor. She asks Cloud to save her. But I think a part of this promise is a way to link Cloud to her. She wants to be safe from harm, yes. But to her, a hero is someone who sees her beyond what she can give. She wants someone who wants to know the true her. Someone who doesn't punish her for her kindness, nor abuse her empathy simply because they feel they are "owed".

Cloud is the only person Tifa actively puts in debt to her. She is always doing for others, but Cloud is the only person where she can both give and receive help without squirming.

After Tifa wakes up from being in the Weapon's materia stomach, she tells Cloud it's time for her to save him. This is an even promise. The proposal scene from Fullmetal Alchemist comes to mind. "I'll give you half of my life if you give me half of yours." We can save each other. We can support each other. We can be weak in front of each other which will only make us stronger.

As this is rapidly approaching a Cloti post, I want to circumvent shipping talk (even though yeah, I am a major Cloti shipper). I want to discuss Tifa and Aerith's relationship.

When the jealous non-girlfriend of Johnny's chews Tifa out in Rebirth at Costa Del Sol, Tifa simply tells Aerith she's used to being treated that way. This can be interpreted as Tifa simply not having many girl friends to lean on. She looked up to Jessie for being confident and she cares for Marlene like an Aunt, but for the most part, Tifa can be made into the villain of someone else's story simply for her looks and kindness.

Aerith's friendship is a boon. She actively stands up for Tifa. They joke around and laugh. They have what I would call "sleepover talk" about boys and Cloud. Aerith trusts Tifa with the truth about Zack just as Tifa tells Aerith that Cloud was never in Nibelheim (to her knowledge). Aerith is the first girl friend she can rely on and not be in competition with. Which is ironic since the fandom loves to pit them against each other for the title of "best jrpg waifu"....

Aerith is an ancient for chrissake! She is cute and bubbly and sassy. Tifa could very easily be intimidated by Aerith for being more honest and blunt about the things she wants and needs, but she isn't. She's inspired. Just like Cloud, Aerith allows Tifa to be insecure, but unlike Cloud, Aerith is able to be more vocal about it to Tifa's face. If Cloud is a man of action when it comes to showing Tifa he cares about her, then Aerith is the woman of words.

When we (presumably) lose Aerith at the end of Rebirth, Tifa reverts back to her shell. Her confidant/sister/best friend is gone. Her childhood friend/love interest/hero has not only lost his footing on reality, he is actively descending further and further away from it.

What is left for Tifa? She's gotten a taste of what it's like to be imperfect and cared for in spite of/because of that. And now she can't hide as well as she used to. Cloud tells Barret he can handle the heavy load (whether he knows that Barret is referring to Aerith's death is another post entirely), but Tifa knows he can't. She is more alone than ever now.

So what will Reunion bring? I hope to see Tifa take a more active role in her story. I know that in the OG she isn't as take charge as players wanted her to be, and I can understand that frustration. I just hope now, that with all this amazing character building, we see it come to a head. That we see Tifa accept her imperfections with grace and leadership.

[dutchdread]

Hey Dutch what is your opinion on crises core reunion ? I had few ca tell me it didn’t do anything for zack and aerith relationship it just made things worse ? I don’t know we’re they get that belief from but it’s there opinion. Did you think the story was ok and gave good context on what they mean to each other?

People give too much flack to Crisis Core. I only played the original CC back on the PSP so I can't say anything about whether or not Reunion made it better or worse, but I enjoyed the original. But part of that is because I simply had lower expectations for portable games than I do for AAA pc or console titles. I won't deny that the game has a bunch of stuff that could have been done better (Cough, genesis, cough), but it had its strong points as well. I think some of the basic concepts of Crisis Core are good in principle, like theme of hopes and dreams, and watching how Zack through adversity unwillingly becomes the hero that he always wanted to be. But the execution was often lacking. I love the idea of watching a several friends slowly break, and I think there is potential in tying that story into them being "monsters" and exploring what it really means to be a monster vs being a hero. But again. The way it was handled made it rather ridiculous and overly obtuse. The constant quoting of Loveless, ESPECIALLY without it ever getting a clear meaning that allows the player to connect with it, Angeals random dramatic self-pity, and a bunch of other stuff just made it so that storywise a lot of the bad overshadowed the good. But I played CC for Zack and Aerith, and they were perfect in my opinion.I loved seeing Aerith like an actual 16 year old girl and how her time with Zack rubbed off on her and caused her to start living every day to the fullest. I still think that the scene with Aerith hugging Zack from behind is one of the most romantic scenes in FF, simply because of how viscerally real it is. Her trying to make small talk, him just being there, choosing to mourn in the presence of the woman he loves, not needing to be consoled, but just needing her presence. And then that hug "sometimes you don't need words to tell a person how you're feeling" indeed. This is also a part of the reason I am convinced Aerith was still projecting Zack onto Cloud at the end of Rebirth "our place", "the church", Yeah right. For Cloud and Aerith the church is just a place they happened to spend about 5 minutes at one point, not even the place they met. Meanwhile Zack went there to see her for I think about one and a half years. He goes there instantly in intergrade, he goes there in Rebirth, we see him waiting there for Aerith at the end of rebirth, the core visual for Crisis core was changed to TAKE PLACE IN THE CHURCH. But the Church is Cloud and Aeriths place.....yeah right. Either that is an intentional hint that Aerith is still projecting, or the writing has fallen off a cliff. Then we have the other character moments, Cloud and Tifa pining for each other, the parallels between Cloti and Zerith. Zack promising Aerith he'll come for her underneath the water tower. And my favorite Aeriths "23 tiny little wishes", all encompassed in the one with to "spend more time with Zack". Which is then ultimately fulfilled via Cloud in the OG/rebirth. And then of course there is the ending, my favorite ending of any game ever aside from Nier:Automata. Man I bawled my eyes out. So yeah, I like Crisis Core, it's messy, but it's messy with a lot of gold in it, and for a portable title I think that's not half bad.

[akimojo]

man it bothers me so much when people feel the need to reduce our perception of vanille and fang’s relationship as romantic to “just a headcanon” when there’s so much more to it than that 

obviously we’re all aware that they’ve never been confirmed as a canon couple, and NO we are NOT trying to devalue dion and terence’s relationship just because we don’t personally see them as the FIRST gay rep in final fantasy (every bit of representation matters ffs). when we talk about fanille being the “real” first gay couple we’re not trying to take away from the fact that ff FINALLY has confirmed queer rep, it’s just a half-joking way to point out that homoromantic SUBTEXT has been around in the franchise for longer than people think, and we believe fang and vanille are the most prominent example of that 

the reason why we see them as having a romantic relationship is because their actions can easily be interpreted as such solely from what we’ve seen in canon, without the need for headcanons or made-up scenarios to piece it together. square could’ve literally made them kiss at any moment in the games out of nowhere and we’d just be like “yeah, that seems about right” because the build-up is there

it’s not about whether the writers actually intended for them to be a couple. frankly, the fact that fang was originally going to be a man, but was changed into a woman just so their relationship wouldn’t be mistaken as romantic, says volumes about how difficult it must’ve been to try and write their bond WITHOUT romantic connotations. they had no problem making noel and yeul share a more sibling-like bond (you could see them as having romantic subtext as well, but nowhere near to the same extent, and with much less support from their canon interactions), and yet they struggled so much with fang and vanille that they had to take (heteronormative) measures in an attempt to stick to their original intentions? would a good writer not accept that that’s the natural direction of the relationship dynamic they themselves came up with? 

part of our reasons for thinking of fang and vanille as canon lesbians, even without confirmation from the creators, is essentially a big ol “fuck you” to heteronormativity.... but also, there’s nothing sisterly to us about clutching your homegirl’s hands, pulling them to her chest as you hug her from behind, and whispering in her ear about how not even death can take her from you, but i digress

using square enix’s description of them as having a sister-like bond to prove they’re not a couple rings hollow to a lot of us because homophobia and heteronormativity has muddled any potential queer rep in games for decades, even in this case where the writers themselves have essentially admitted that it was next to impossible for them to write their relationship without romantic undertones. whether that says more about their ability to write a platonic relationship than it does about fang and vanille is up to you, of course

it’s also worth pointing out some hypocrisy among the ff fanbase. take tifa and cloud, and aerith and cloud, for example. neither ship has been confirmed as canon in any of the games, but (despite the ship wars lmao) the vast majority of the fandom can agree that both of these relationships were written with romantic undertones, whether intentionally or not, and that viewing them as “canon” is perfectly valid because of that. and yet when we view fang and vanille as a couple it’s outrageous unless we specifically call it a headcanon and denounce any and all possibilities of it holding any weight in canon. i don’t want to make any accusations as for why, but it’s worth noting 

i also just want to clarify that the main theme of the final fantasy xiii trilogy IS family, and it makes perfect sense to see fang and vanille as sisters if you choose to interpret their relationship via more traditional family values, but it also includes found family (a group of people that are as close as family, but don’t adhere to conventional family roles and values, and usually consists of outcasts of some kind), which is not inherently romantic, but is also not strictly platonic, and is a trope that is especially important and relatable to the LGBTQ+ community, so of course we’re going to interpret these things in a different light compared to how people outside of the community would

[silver-wield]

Final Fantasy VII Rebirth Review Chapter 11

Okay, this collection of posts will be filled with spoilers, including clips and screenshots, so if you don't wanna see things, then don't look. Some of the things I'm gonna highlight will include references to Remake and other sources to link with the overarching plot. This is a straight path playthrough with no sidequests or extra content.

To Nibelheim!

Right from the off we have Sephiroth upping his gaslighting campaign, but Tifa's on hand to pull Cloud out of it despite her own trauma from being back home.

Once we're at the town gate, and they're trying to get over their shock at the rebuilt town, we find out Shinra is behind it and they've taken control of all the property licenses to turn it into a treatment centre for the black cloaks. This is slightly different from OG where the townspeople denied everything they said.

Cloud takes a wander around town while Cait Sith accesses the terminal in the town hall. He spots the ghost of Zack in the inn and it's here that he finally starts to remember, although his recollection is still skewed by jenova.

It's worth noting that Cloud literally describes Zack as being "head over heels for Aerith", so all those people who think he'd fuck over his friend after remembering this are off their heads. This doesn't exist for no reason.

After that, Cloud goes round the town talking to everyone for more relationship building. On top of the fake water tower, Cloud sits in the same spot as during the promise and Kalm flashback so he can see Tifa's house. Aerith asks if he ever hoped Tifa would wave and the subsequent conversation after this Aerith admits again she's jealous of Cloud and Tifa's relationship and past together.

Tifa's conversation with Cloud after the relationship development one has her bringing up the fact he was always looking at her (still does) and that no matter how often she asked him to join her and the others, he refused. Cloud admits he was a lil shit as a kid, so this conversation is yet another nail in the "you never let me in the group" bs lie. Tifa asked, but Cloud refused.

After the convos are done, Cait reappears telling us we need to go to the manor and use that terminal instead for better access. The man with the key card for the gate has gone up to the reactor, so they decide to go find him. Cloud, Tifa and Yuffie are your party for this part.

Thanks to a new bridge, we cross to a point where the Gunthra river basin meets the village. Cloud recalls Zack again, but jenova messes with his memory. The result is he thinks Zack is dead and they should tell Aerith since Zack was "head over heels for Aerith" and she told Cloud several times that Zack is her first love and she had no reason not to still like him.

Tifa suggests she break the news, which she does later, but without saying Zack is dead because she knows what Cloud recalled at the river isn't correct. She doesn't know where Zack is but she knows he was alive five years ago. This is what prompts Aerith to write No Promises to Keep.

After following the path we took during the flashback, we reach the mako spring. Cloud does a very good Sephiroth cosplay, which alarms Tifa. Not only is Cloud glitching out, but he's word perfect for an event he was never present at as far as she knows.

The original path diverges at this point and we climb up to a new path that leads us to the tubes! It doesn't matter which of these you take. You can even unlock the gate after leaping over at the bottom and reset the elevator to go back up and pick a different tube for different rewards. There's no materia keeper, we already killed it in the past.

Cloud and Yuffie have a bit of dialogue about how people from Wutai emigrated to their continent. This could maybe be a hint about Tifa's mother's origin in the future? We also had Yuffie offer Tifa a da chao bean but she declined. The devs know we're waiting for that moment whether she can bite one or not 🤣

The boss in the reactor is some amalgamation monster that's escaped from the pods. It looks like the big brother of the one Sephiroth killed previously.

Once we're inside the reactor properly, Tifa has a panic attack recalling what happened to her and her dad, Cloud comforts her and they finally find the key card they need.

Back in town, Red leaves the party to act as escort to the others when they come back from the reactor, while Barret, Cait and Aerith go look for the terminal.

A hologram of Hojo is waiting for them and drops them in a hole. And that's the start of Cait Sith's level. As Cait, we roll through ducts and climb on the moogle to throw boxes at things and advance through the underground lab back to the entrance where the others are waiting.

Solo, Cait battles a sub boss, then we get to input a familiar code to leave the area, but first, Hojo wants us to clean up a failed experiment before finally reuniting with our buds.

And then it's time to meet a different kind of security. Vincent lets us off for not being Murasaki, and while Cait hits up the terminal, Cloud has another blast from the past and we hear the elements that went into his mako tank. Cloud is an S grade soldier. This is important info. S grade soldiers don't degrade. It's the reason Genesis wanted Zack's hair or cells in CC, even though they weren't compatible because they didn't mutate.

Tifa finds Cloud in a state and helps him out while Vincent throws a tantrum and goes full Galian beast on our asses. This was such a surprise because nobody had mentioned this among all the spoilers and leaks, but it's something I floated during the long wait for Rebirth as a cool way to introduce Vincent.

Once the battle with Vincent is done and he's back in his coffin, we head outside where Cait tells us we need to find the keystone.

Before we can head off, Roche pops up for one final fight. He's suffering heavily from degradation and is going against orders to have this "dance" with Cloud. Gotta wonder what his orders were and what exactly makes him different to the previous numbered soldiers.

What did Hojo do to make him an SC? And who are the three that came before him?

So Cloud and Roche have their bout, with Sephiroth popping in to encourage Cloud to get the black materia. Roche eventually falls and becomes a black cloak, which adds to Cloud's fear of becoming one too.

We have a quick hop back to Midgar for an address by Glenn to introduce the mysterious Sarruf and rally the people to rise up against Shinra.

This is all in line with Sephiroth's plans. For him to weaken the planet, which Tifa already said was winning against him, he wants people who died in pain, fear and anger to "feed the planet". Those emotions are absorbed by the planet with the souls of the dead and make it sick, which makes him stronger.

Back with our main party, they're heading to the GS to talk to Dio.

Cid asks Aerith about her mother. Turns out when he was a young mechanic working for Shinra, he saw Ifalna in the Shinra building and got some kinda crush on her or something. This is why he's eager to help out and joins the party, and even explains why he wears a ribbon for her when he barely knew her.

Then the chapter ends with the iconic crash landing and everybody giving Cid evils.

Nibelheim is full of lore and such a massive chapter for Cloud and Tifa. Cloud varies from Sephiroth's mouthpiece to as close to his real self as he could get. He almost recalls what happened in the reactor after Tifa got hurt. Nibelheim manor definitely still has a lot of secrets to give up, and that's before we explore the mountain properly. Why can't we climb it? Why can the black cloaks climb it? What's up with that?

[thecloudstan]

What did you think about the Sephiroth and Rufus situation? I personally LOVED it. I had a feeling from the start that Glenn was actually Sephiroth, and when it was confirmed at the end it just made the Glenn scenes even better. Sephiroth has a huge grudge against Rufus that wasn’t in the original and I think it’s glorious, both because it was immensely entertaining and because it fleshed out their characters. Rufus was the only one this entire time who managed to get some kind of emotion out of Sephiroth and actually got under his skin, while Sephiroth read him like a freaking book (the infamous “pig headed, pathetic, daddy hating child” line. Side note: it would’ve been even funnier if it was said in Sephiroth’s voice and not Glenn’s. The idea of him saying “daddy” just tickles my funny bone.)

I think their dynamic is more interesting than Sephiroth and Cloud’s simply because they’re almost on equal footing- at least mentally- and while Sephiroth has the physical strength Rufus has his money and influence, and I was freaking out the entire time they showed up together.

Sorry for the long ask/rant, but hey, you did say to feel free to vent about our emotions 😅

I was kinda at a loss when Glenn first showed up, my husband and I were wayyy on the wrong track. I'm actually glad we were, I'm much happier that it was Sephiroth trying to keep Rufus out of his way, especially since Rufus catches on pretty quickly in the original. At least, he understands pretty promptly that Sephiroth is a more pressing problem than everything else.

The thing I can't quite figure out is whether this Glenn visual is being perpetrated by the Sephiroth we know or the Sephiroth who exists outside of time (I keep referring to him as Advent Children Sephiroth and original as Alpha Sephiroth). I think it MUST be AC Seph because he seems to be using every possible tack to buy himself (Alpha Seph) time. He even goes so far as to try and kill Tifa in the Lifestream, which was fucking SHOCKING...he's really doing his best to keep Aerith alive, Cloud in thrall, Rufus off his (and Avalanche's) back, and Tifa from being in a position to remind Cloud who he really is much later in Mideel.

And beneath this cut is wild theorizing that goes way beyond the scope of your message, omg. I blathered so much I decided it needed a cut!!

Sorry, this might all sound nutso since there are so many things happening at once. I think anytime you see Seph in-storyline it's a Reunion clone (iow, a fully thralled SOLDIER, etc). So far I think AC Seph is in Cloud's head and anytime you're between realities (Edge of Creation). Like, the fucked up Whispers are that indication that you're dealing with AC Seph and not Alpha Seph. A good example would be the Citadel (bear with me).

Aerith knows she has to pray for Holy and return to the Planet (die). But when the heroes arrive, they don't know her intent, so the white Whispers (deployed by the Planet in cooperation with Aerith), are already there beating back AC Seph's black Whispers, while also trying to keep Cloud & Co. from breaking through and rescuing her. The Sephiroth that falls from the sky and does the deed doesn't really matter...he's just a Reunion clone. Right? This is what I think, at least.

I have to go back and play through and pay closer attention to each of his individual arrivals to be sure, but it's what I've cooked up in my brain so far. AC Seph just talks to Cloud differently. It's an attempt to lead by filling him with rage that will make him act, instead of his previous tack of essentially ignoring him because he was too squid-brained-Jenova-pilled to pay any attention to little blonde boy what stabbed him to death, except to use him to gain the black materia (and hurt him as much as he could along the way). In the original game, Sephiroth was more interested in striking fear into Cloud, using him to do horrific things to his friends, calling him a puppet, etc. This backfires because Cloud is so terrified of what's inside him that he just...does not act. It's quite literally why Aerith is not saved, and why Cloud blames himself for her loss.

On the other hand, shiny new AC Seph is all, "don't you want to protect this beautiful Planet with me??" Whereas Alpha Seph is still more along the lines of, "I will ascend and devour this world like my Mother." AC Seph understands who he's talking to. And yet still doesn't understand the strength that person possesses...

ANYWAY, all of this hinges on the belief that AC Sephiroth is not interfering with the actions of Alpha Seph, or really that he can't, so he's thralling Cloud and pushing him to do his bidding, just like the original...except AC Seph already knows that he fucked up and has to fix what he broke. In his own words...he underestimated Cloud and company (for a second, or really THIRD time). I think Reunion is going to combine not just the wayward Jenova cells, but the timelines. Jenova isn't being replicated with each new world, but her genetic material still is. I think AC Seph ultimately wants to successfully summon Meteor, but he has to create a universe in which Aerith never returns to the Planet after praying, which would cripple Holy. He has to make sure Cloud stays in thrall, because he simply can't overpower him in any reality (this is why Tifa has go to go, in his mind). And lastly, he has to off himself at the Northern Crater. When Sephiroth says to Cloud "you have my blessing," obviously it was him urging Cloud to protect Aerith this time-to interject and stop him. I think it extends further, though. I think he wants Cloud to destroy him (original game Sephiroth, that is) so that only he (that new Seph) remains when Reunion is complete. Jury's out on whether he plans to permanently use Cloud as his vessel. I'm not sure about that one. We'll see.

Also, I'd say it was Cloud who gagged Sephiroth the most when he returned from a fractured timeline with the white materia and we got that miffed Sephiorth line, "Bad form..." 😂 Absolutely loved seeing that man rattled for a moment.

Thanks for the long message, actually. I should apologize for the long response!! In all honesty, I'm rusty on Ever Crisis and Before Crisis and First Soldier Stuff. I only ever read synopses of those things to keep up and so details often slip my mind. If I misspoke or overlooked something that somehow has background in those titles, I apologize.

COME. WILDLY THEORIZE WITH ME!!

[nimbostrxtus]

Since the subject of Tifa’s character has come up once again, I felt like throwing in my two pence because I had a similar conversation with a friend a while back about why the internet adores Aerith but far too often shoves Tifa to the side.

I appreciate Square Enix turning Tifa into a role model. She is the most heroic character out of the rosta; with Cloud only being in it for the money, Barret being blinded by his hatred for ShinRa and hiding behind the excuse he's fighting for the planet, and Aerith who is dealing with her own issues at the moment and is the damsel in distress in later chapters. Tifa is the only one whose moral compass never sways and she is a pillar of support for the other characters to lean on. She knows what the right thing to do is and will not compromise her morals, even for the greater good.

Tifa as a character is fine, she's one of the best in both the original and remake, her role as "Team Mum" keeping the party together and her friendship with Aerith and eventual grief over losing her best friend is just as tragic as Cloud's loss.

The only reason fans seem to take issue with Tifa as a character and put Aerith on a pedestal is because Tifa does not have a backstory. Let me re-phrase that. Tifa does not have a backstory that belongs to her and her alone. Tifa’s entire character revolves around her relationship with other people and supporting their character arcs. Every other character in the party is dealing with baggage that is unique to them. Aerith is the last of the Cetra and the only one who can stop Sephiroth, Barret lost his home town and had to raise his best friend's daughter by himself while becoming an eco-terrorist, Nanaki was experimented on by Hojo, is the last of his species and has issues with his father, Cait Sith is a ShinRa employee who wants to help the people in Midgar but feels trapped, Cid never got to fulfil his life long dream of going into space before Shinra cut the space program budget, Vincent has an entire backstory revolving around Lucretia and shines some light on Sephiroth's own backstory, and Yuffie's home of Wutai is a major factor in the game's lore since the very beginning. In comparison, Tifa doesn't have a backstory that belongs to her and her alone.

Now, Tifa obviously has a history, but the problem is her backstory is Cloud's backstory. Tifa's loss over her mother, Cloud leaving her, her father dying at Sephiroth's hands and her hometown burning to the ground isn't given as much weight as it deserves, because we only see it from Cloud's perspective and we're meant to feel his pain over the events, not hers. A lot of fans seem to forget Tifa knows Sephiroth and has just as much grudge against him as Cloud does. It just takes a backseat over Cloud's rivalry with Sephiroth.

You can take Tifa out of Cloud's backstory, but you can't take Cloud out of Tifa's backstory. Cloud still exists without Tifa. We still have his friendship with Zack and the damage Zack's death left on Cloud's fragile psyche and shaped him into the person we see at the beginning of the game, as well as his hero-worshipping over Sephiroth and the eventual betrayal he feels when Sephiroth kills his mother and burns Nibleheim. You don't really need to know anything about Nibleheim to understand Cloud as a character.

Tifa, in contrast, lost her mother at a young age and went into the mountains to go and be with her, leading to her and Cloud falling off the bridge. But this backstory only exists to further push the idea into Cloud's head that had he been stronger he would have saved Tifa. Tifa’s own turmoil about her mother is never brought up again after that flashback. Even her martial arts instructor, Zangan, we only ever see in a flashback sequence and is only brought up again when you find a letter he left Tifa in her piano. He only exists to explain to the audience why Tifa fights monsters with only her fists.

And that is very disappointing because there is a lot to work with here. The game never flat out states whether Tifa was feeling suicidal or genuinely thought her mother was waiting for her in the mountains, but her perspective of events after her friends abandoned her on the bridge and the bullied outcast was the only one who tried to rescue her would have been interesting. Tifa wanting to get close to this kid who proved to be her only friend and feeling lonely after he leaves would have been good motivation for her to become stronger too. Perhaps she meant for their promise to go both ways, Cloud will come help her when she needs him and she'll do the same for him. Maybe that was the motivation behind her learning martial arts, so she can become strong enough to protect the people she loves so she'll never have to worry about them leaving her.

I really hope the remake delves deeper into Tifa's time without Cloud and how she became her own person, her relationship with her mother, the strain between her and father,  and her time training under Zangan.

[300iqprower]

Favorite fgo characters from a design perspective? (Doesn't have to be servants only)

hmm....Well, an easy top pick is Colombus. The artist for him Moto Murabito has what might be my favorite art style ever though so kinda cheating, and I don't like his battle sprites half as much. His final ascension in particular I don't like in battle; I get what it's going for but it just looks cluttered and gaudy (which might be the point given his character) and that's coming from a guy who tends to explicitly love the overdesigned stuff. Which leads me into whether I should pick based on battle sprite or pure artwork but I'm definitely inclined towards the latter while keeping the former in mind.

Someone who's the opposite is Achilles, don't like his general design and especially dislike his portrait arts, but I really like his final ascension battle sprite with the sort of lightweight power-armor motif.

On that note my most recent favorite and possibly my absolute favorite is Aśvatthāman for sure. Every single one of his ascensions is gorgeous to look at and I regularly can't decide if I like his second or third more.

Martha is one of the few Summer servants who I consider to have a flat out better design than their original. You get a nice summer hat and dress, a jacket that wouldn't look out of place on Kazuma Kiryu (personal favorite), or Beach Episode Tifa.

Of course there's Siegfried, a design so good it suckered me into wasting my SR ticket on him cause I stupidly believed the bit people parrot about picking who you want being the most important. Fucking liars this game is a slave to meta. But it's a fantastic design and fuck his summer outfit for covering most of it up. Same goes for Casgil actually. I’m 100% on board with the Siegfried is Fafnir theory and if its true his design is flat out genius.

Lanling/Gao is just fcking infuriatingly gorgeous and possibly my pick for best visual representation of their legend, certainly tied with Siegfried for it. Relatedly Yu Mei Ren in both art style, animations, and against all odds actual outfit is *chef’s kiss*. Funny how a series that so routinely grossly oversexualizes characters got a character literally named Consort Yu PERFECT with a design that fits her origin and character stylization beautifully. The sheer anguish on display in some of her portraits is wonderful as well and very important to nailing her character in lb3 while also being a great contrast when she’s frequently used in gags for events.

“Inferno” has m my favorite portraits of any character in the game, full stop. I take psychic damage every time it shows her sad expression. Ponytail supremacy though!

Nobunaga across all forms is absolutely perfect in just about every sense and is tied with Vlad III for third place after those other 2 for my pick of best representing their counterpart. Docked points for the genderbend but its made up for by sheer art style (especially with avenger nobu) and personality on display.

Some more low key designs that I still very much love include base Nyalter (i ABSOLUTELY HATE her ascensions though) and Kotarou and Billy’s final ascensions (which i can only describe as fcking badass), as well as Vlad as aforementioned for just perfectly capturing the halfway point between himself and Dracula (ngl i do not care for extra vlad’s design.)

Shakespeare’s design is actually what initially drew me to him even more than his identity and all i can say is im so glad such a fantastic character has such a good design AND one of the absolute coolest final ascension artworks; i’m a big sucker for red and black glowing stuff. Tangentially related but Jalter’s base is easily her best form.

Ruler Quetz, Astraea, Barge Chest, and Hassan of Hundred Personas all get mention for being among the only female characters allowed to be jacked as hell. More of that.

Mandricardo, Rider Quetz (despite lack of muscle), and Beni all deserve a spot here just for their masterful use of color throughout their entire designs. Beni also gets special mention alongside Ashtart and Okita Alter for utterly gorgeous sword attack animations, with Okita Alter probably having the best sword np in the game.

Zerkerlot is a unique case, because he looked amazing in Fate Zero but lost that in fgo because the whole reason he looked amazing was the use of cgi to give him this not-quite-human touch to his movements which fit his character perfectly, and it was infinitely better done than whatever tf they did with Herc in Heaven’s Feel.

Mozart and Salieri have got to be another easy pair for the list, not only are they just visually interesting as hell to look at, but Mozart’s is an amazing flip of his origin story and Salieri in everything from portrait to battle sprite to attack animations is absolutely overflowing with character. (Except his np for some ungodly reason that is some weak fcking shot right there)

And lastly there’s Coffin Archer, Gramps, Oberon, and Dantes, all to the surprise of literally no one because those are the free spaces on the favorite fgo design bingo card. There’s nothing i can say about how good their designs are that hasn’t already been said.

In terms of non player characters my favorites are typically those who i feel have designs that fit the character’s intended impact. Goredolf, Romani, ‘Solomon,’ Kadoc, Daybit, ‘Sigurd’, and the Demon God Pillars in the pseudo singularities are ALL examples of what i mean, with the non humans listed there also just looking REALLY fcking cool as a bonus.

Basically i look for three things in a servant design: Color, complexity, and/or authenticity. If a servant’s design isn’t something that screams their identity, then it had better be something interesting on its own. And as for what i dislike, it’s when it’s something completely unfocused on what the character is supposed to be or really anything that prioritizes sexualizing them over having a good design, which is sadly why so many of these picks are sadly male servants. I despise how many female characters are short, model-like and muscleless (even when it’s someone like Quetz who we had to wait for santa quetz to get her with some goddamn muscle despite it supposedly being a defining trait for her) or just utterly stupid in their anatomy for the sake of catering to incels who find the very concept of an independent woman terrifying. It’s why there’s always a catch with female servants be it a motherly obsession, an over sexualized as hell design, a deep seated emotional vulnerability that makes them dependent on the player, or just being absurdly short. Meanwhile the male servants regularly get to actually be designed with their legend and ONLY their legends in mjnd resulting in far more varied yet coherent designs on a lot of fronts. Also every child servent design that isn’t 1st ascension Abby or 2nd ascension Voyager can die in a fire.

Now lets can this on the head with absolute favorites from what ive listed before it turns entirely into another soapbox rant. In no particular order:

Final Salieri

Base Jalter

Dantes

Oberon

Siegfried

Gao/Lanling

Colombus

Aśvatthāman

2nd Summer Martha

Final Billy

Shakespeare

Beni-Enma

Base “Inferno”

Coffin Archer

Kadoc

Humanoid Demon God Pillars

Maou Nobu Trio

Yu Mei Ren

[hartofhearts]

Claudia’s words and memories of the promise

I know the Claudia/Cloud’s mother flashback scene has been discussed quite a bit, but I don’t think I’ve seen something yet which fully answers why Cloud had a starry sky in his eyes (a callback to his promise with Tifa) after waking up.

(this infamous shot)

But it finally occurred to me: Cloud wakes up with the promise scene on his mind BECAUSE the flashback reminded him of it. And the flashback reminded him of the promise because the promise was on his mind during his entire conversation with Claudia.

(Spoilers for the Remake and OG throughout.)

Backstory for the memory, and spoilers for the OG: Cloud is only having this conversation with his mother because he was trying to hide from Tifa. He’s trying to hide because he doesn’t feel good enough for her. He doesn’t feel good enough for her because he isn’t a SOLDIER. A SOLDIER IS good enough for Tifa because a SOLDIER has the strength to protect her and take care of her. It’d be no surprise to me that a moody 16 year old boy would be sulking brooding on these thoughts while his mom is trying to mother him.

Now, onto the scene:

We start with Cloud lounging on his bed, looking at the ceiling, while his mom chats with him from the kitchen offscreen, to the right.

Claudia: I’ve never been so proud. The man you’ve become... Women must be hounding you day and night.

Cloud: Not really.

We know from the OG that in this moment Cloud isn’t proud of himself. He became an infantryman, not a SOLDIER. And he’s only had one girl on his mind the entire time, so regardless of whether or not women were hounding him, he’s not into it. He tries to shut down this conversation because it’s not making him feel great. (Claudia, on the other hand, is a great mom and is trying to get her son to acknowledge his accomplishments. But as most people know, cheering up a broody 16 year old boy isn’t easy.)

Next,

Claudia: You know, there’s all kinds of temptations in the big city. I’d feel a lot better if I knew you’d found a good girl--one who’d make sure you didn’t get into trouble.

Cloud, with his voice slightly sulky: I can take care of myself.

We see him roll to the left, facing the wall and away from his mom’s voice.

Cloud only joined Shinra because he wanted to take care of someone else: TIfa. He does NOT want to be told that in actuality, he needs his romantic partner to take care of him and that by extension he can’t be her hero, can’t take care of her. He totally disagrees with everything his mother is saying and doesn’t want to hear it.

Claudia, like any mom, knows her son is being mopey in the face of her advice (maybe that he’s being immature and a silly goose? 😜) and does NOT relent. (I do not buy that she is clueless to his feelings and doesn’t hear his sulky tone.)

Claudia: An older, more mature girl that could keep you on the straight and narrow--and tell you when you’re being a silly goose. That’s the perfect type for you, I’d say.

Cloud tries to totally ignore this part of the conversation. No verbal or physical acknowledgement. His eyes are closed and he’s plainly trying to sleep, to better shut out her words.

Tifa has been on his mind throughout this entire conversation, as she is the reason he disagrees with every line his mother has said. Cloud wants to deny everything his mom said, because to agree with any of it would mean that he failed his goals and that he failed his promise to Tifa.

This is why when Cloud wakes up, we get a visual cue to his promise at the well. Because that promise at the well weighed heavily on his mind when he was living that moment.

Final thoughts:

>> Isn’t the C//erith interpretation way more straightforward than this, so wouldn’t that make it likelier?

Background to why Cloud is having this flashback in this moment, and spoilers for the Remake: the previous scene shows Cloud facing the full brunt of motherly scrutiny and protectiveness for her child. Elmyra has told Cloud that he can’t pursue a relationship with Aerith. That as a SOLDIER, he has made the choice to give up a normal life for power. The final shot of Cloud shows him staring after Elmyra and pursing his lips in thought, while Aerith wonders wtf happened while she was gone.

There are a couple big things about this scene that triggers the flashback for Cloud:

It’s been a while since he’s seen a mother in action, which reminds him of the last time he saw his own

Here he is disagreeing with one mom, and it reminds him of times he disagreed with his own (Elmyra tells him that SOLDIERs make the choice to give up normal lives and relationships, which goes against why Cloud wanted to become a SOLDIER... though this could only be acknowledged at a deeper level, as it reflects on his True Self)

I know that one common interpretation is that the flashback is triggered as a sort of “(Cloud’s) mother knows best” way to suggest that Aerith is the ideal partner for Cloud. (Which I disagree with on a thematic level... if mothers always know best as in the case of Claudia and Cloud, then why should we say Elmyra DOESN’T know best in case of her daughter, where Elmyra is saying her daughter doesn’t need to be hurt by another SOLDIER so Cloud should leave? But that aside.) 

FFVII has always been a game about double meanings and subversion of expectations, so I 100% expect that the devs put this scene here to suggest Aerith as a romantic partner. However, with the context of the actual event + Cloud’s behavior during that event + the starry sky scene in Cloud’s eyes, I think it’s safe to say that there’s a double meaning/subverted expectation here. The flashback is showcasing how Tifa has always been a very important someone to Cloud and was really the person on his mind at the time.

>> But what about Claudia’s actual thoughts on his perfect type? Doesn’t that preclude Tifa? Is Claudia actually wrong about what her son needs?

Well, it’s really only the word “older” that would exclude Tifa, and even then, translation of the original Japanese suggests that use of the word “older” is inaccurate. The Japanese script really just means someone more mature and lady-like. See this post by @100wendybirds​, which really made a lot of things click for me! Based on that, I think Claudia’s description actually could fit Tifa, though young Cloud doesn’t want to see it that way at the time (he’s hung up on how HE has to take care of HER, and hasn’t yet accepted that his romantic partner can take care of him, too). 

As a fun observation, given the context that Cloud was being a bit childish in this interaction with his mother AND that Claudia wasn’t surprised at all, it seems as though Cloud really does need someone more mature to guide him and keep him out of trouble. Now where do we see that happen?

Sorry for the long post! And shout out to @silver-wield​, @otp-oasis-heavenxearth​, @nibelheiim​, and all those other amazing people who’ve written incredible analyses and inspired me to look at the game like this with their posts. Thank you! :)

[snowlily95]

Happy 13th Anniversary to CC and why CC is not a lazy copy to OG

Let me tell you why CC or Zerith in particular, is not a lazy copy to a certain couple like how a certain fandom been trying to push to all FF7 fandom.

1. OG C/erith is copying even before Zerith existed.

It had always been the intention of the devs to make Aerith initially only attracted to Cloud because he reminds her of her ex. It doesn’t matter who her ex is, Cloud is just like her ex. Later on, they created Zack to solve Cloud’s mystery AND be Aerith’s ex. Whether she grows to be genuinely attracted to Cloud, later on, is up to the players so I don’t really care about that. If you wanna ship them together, be my guest. I love Cloud and Aerith so it’s really fine. But their first meeting? The buster sword? The first date payment? Since years and years ago, it had already been C/erith is the one ‘stealing’ from Zerith even before CC existed. Stealing is their word, not mine. Of course, when I said this, I didn’t mean OG downright copying CC. I mean that Aerith will always see Zack in Cloud. Which part? We don’t know yet in OG, but it’s already canon that it’s not Cloud’s personality. We knew Zack's personality was different since Zack's creation. They had decided it’s the way they meet and they hold the copyright so they have the right to it.

2. C/erith is Aerith trying to re-enact Zerith.

Zack is NOT Aerith’s ex. She didn’t have closure. She loved Zack for 2 years, waited for him for 5 years, she loved him for a total of 7 years before she felt she should move on, look forward not backward. In OG, she told Cloud Zack suddenly disappeared 5 years ago. And if you go to Gongaga, his parents said Zack sent a letter to them telling them he had a girlfriend 6-7 years ago. So even in OG, their relationship spans across more than a year. And even when she finally decided to move forward, what did she do? She’s hurt too much she tried to recreate what she had with Zack. Oh look, a SOLDIER with a buster sword just fell down the sky like Zack. Let’s see if he’d agree to a one-date payment like Zack before. Notice that Aerith only pursued Cloud when he fell down her roof, like Zack. She wasn't persistent when she met him while selling flowers. Aerith tried SO hard just to get herself a Zack. She’s hurt, and it’s clear she’s still deeply in love and harboring hope for Zack so I can understand why she did that. She wants Zack, she’ll take whatever she can get.

3. The interaction after they meet is different.

You know, I played OG before CC. And didn't like how Cloud can be really cold to Aerith. Granted, in OG, you can pick, but the bad choice is seriously bad. You don’t let a guy say cold things to you and treat you like you’re a bother (even in Remake, “just my luck”, “I’m not cut out for this crap”, etc) and still want to date him. But when Cloud gets himself back and mystery revealed, I understand Aerith’s pain for wanting Zack no matter how she can get. Nomura said CC is a defense for Aerith coz he wanna clear up the notion of Aerith is too desperate in OG. And he’s right. Aerith is a lonely character. She grew up not only alone but experimented. Then she meets a boy who, not only didn’t care that she’s a Cetra but also brightens her day, make her happy and fall in love and treats her like a princess, literally would do anything for her—and then she lost him brutally, not knowing how or why or maybe when. This is something C/erith doesn’t have. You know, anyone can meet people the same way. And you know what’s the difference? Their interactions after they meet. Cloud was repulsive, Zack was interested. Zack gave her everything. Cloud was just wanting to show her he’s cool. Literally, any girl would do it doesn’t even matter if it’s not Aerith, Aerith just happens to be there, as his tool to show his cool SOLDIER side, like “see, I’m a cool SOLDIER”. Zack doesn’t care if he’s not a SOLDIER in Aerith’s eyes. Aerith hated SOLDIER when they met. But Aerith didn’t care, because she loved him. Falling down the roof is not romantic, the interaction after that is.

4. Zerith is so much more than falling down the roof.

If Zerith is just a lazy copy, there wouldn’t be all the sweet stuff that follows. What’s sweet in CC is not that Zack met Aerith the same way Cloud did. What’s sweet is that Zack called her an angel when he fell down. Zack willingly asked her for a date, and she willingly suggested going to the park. They’re mutual. What’s sweet is that Zack bought her a pink ribbon because he paid attention to Aerith and he knows Aerith wanted the ribbon and offers to buy and she accepted. No one is forced to buy, and Aerith is not forced to accept the gift. He asked her to wear pink and she willingly did. What’s sweet is that Zack, with no external factor at all, complimented her flowers, suggested her sell them, and even helped her to sell them once. Zack built her a wagon coz she wanted it and literally would do it all over again until she’s satisfied. He even got her perfume. What’s sweet is that Aerith keeps calling Zack in the middle of his mission, and he keeps answering her calls even when he’s busy. He gave her his time and attention. And what’s even sweeter is that, despite denying it, Aerith waited for him for 5 years, written to him 89 letters coz he’s not answering her calls anymore. None of these are in C/erith. The only copied ones are the falling from the roof and the one-date payment, which is only there coz Aerith wanted to have what she had with Zack again. But it didn’t work, because Cloud is not Zack and it’s okay. Aerith needs to know she’s not getting Zack again and that’s what she needs to learn from this hard loss.

5. The final result is still C/erith copying Zerith.

Now here’s the thing. FF7 is fictional. It’s not real. All the stories about what they initially planned—the Ancient is supposed to be Tifa, Sephiroth is supposed to be Aerith’s ex, Aerith and Sephiroth supposed to be siblings, Zack is the last installment of the series, etc. Those are just interesting stories about how their journey is before coming up with the final result, the entire FF7 Compilation. But none of those planning matters in canon, because at the end of the day, the story is just like that. Cloud met Aerith the way that reminded Aerith to Zack. That’s it. Simple. No copying whatsoever. And they hold the copyright, taking your own team’s work to flash out is in no way, shape, or form copying. I’m a writer myself—fiction and academic writer myself. I also have stories about how things are supposed to be planned differently before I came up with the final result. But those are just interesting stories about how I come out with that final idea. At the end of the day, the most important thing is the final result telling us that way. And get this, when writing OG, the devs were thinking about what can link Cloud and Aerith together so that they can connect at the first meeting. And guess what’s their original idea? It’s that; Cloud reminds Aerith of her ex. Who’s this ex is not even decided yet. But that's basically their basic connection. Without this ex, neither of these two would even look at each other twice. If you found a potential suitor, you don’t blab about your ex. You talk about yourself and about your suitor. You get to know each other, create chemistry between you, but no. Aerith keeps on talking about Zack. She literally slaps an ex on the very beginning of a potential suitor, and that’s literally their connection—even before CC.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why you shouldn’t slap this Zerith copying C/erith insult to Zerith fans. Because you know what, we care about the real characters. We care about Cloud, so we don’t want him to get uncomfortable getting pushed and forced into a date. We care about Aerith so we don’t want her to be treated coldly on a date or relationship coz she deserves to have someone like Zack. And all of it evidenced since before CC, and literally, none of the retcon parts of CC (coz CC did retcon some other things) ever alter that. Yes, Aerith can gradually move on, but Zerith is canon since before CC.

CC is a great game. You already know the ending, and you should have been ready for the ending. But you’re not. You knew but you fell in love with this guy destined to die. The mechanic is different than how abrupt Aerith died in OG. Aerith’s death was unexpected. Zack’s was expected but you just can’t. And that’s why it gave a whole new meaning to OG. None of it is copied, in fact, it only gives a new insight into what we already know.

So Happy 13th Anniversary to one of the FF7 Compilation installments: Crisis Core. The game that made us love OG even more. The game gave us more reasons to understand Cloud, to understand Aerith, and even to understand Sephiroth. Thumbs up to the devs, despite all the shortcomings of game control and what not in CC. 13 years and still going strong, still making people cry.

Mic drop. 🎤

[skania]

Hollow: an ode to Cloud’s regrets about Aerith

I’ve always felt Hollow is about Cloud’s regrets after Aerith’s fate. But after finishing the Original Final Fantasy 7 game, I realized the lyrics outright quote and reference things Cloud says about Aerith in Disks 2 & 3.

So if I was convinced before, now I just can’t see the song being about anyone nor anything else.

I’ve been posting my thoughts about it on Twitter the last few days, but I figured it was worth putting everything together in one single post to illustrate just why I feel this way. I’ll divide the post in a few parts:

What we know about the song

Where we hear the song in Remake

The name of the song

The song lyrics and its ties to the OG (and to AC)

The imagery of the song

Could the song be about multiple people? nope

I’ll illustrate each point with images from the OG and occasionally Advent Children, so beware of spoilers for both! In contrast, there are only a few spoilers from Remake, including one cut-scene from the ending and a scene from Chapter 14.

What we know about the song

The song’s lyrics were written by Nojima and the music by Uematsu. In the Behind the Scenes, Uematsu explains that the song is sung from Cloud’s perspective and gives the vocalist clear instructions to make the vocals fit Cloud’s character.

This was further confirmed on a recent interview, where Uematsu said: “[...] the song is supposed to be about Cloud's inner feelings” (source).

Similarly, Nojima confirmed that one of the two keywords he received to write the lyrics was “told from Cloud’s point of view.”

Even more interesting, however, is the following:

I interpreted [Hollow] as "a ballad for a man who lost something important to him."  — Nojima

In other words, Nojima wrote these lyrics thinking about Cloud having lost “something important” to him. In Japanese, the wording is 大切なもの, which means both “something important” or “someone important” depending on the context (comment from the translator).

Both have already been used from Cloud’s point of view, in regards to Aerith.

In the OG, it’s used when Cait Sith predicts that Cloud will lose Aerith. “What you pursue will be yours. But you will lose something dear." In Japanese, “something dear” is written with the exact same wording used by Nojima:  大切なもの

The same wording is also used in Cloud’s cameo in Final Fantasy Tactics, where he’s featured alongside Aerith.

As for “someone important”, Aerith has been described as Cloud’s 大切な人 "important/precious someone” more times than I can count. Like here, for example:

... [Sephirot] took away my important/precious someone. 

So just from the wording alone, we can establish a link to Aerith. However, this is far from being the only way Hollow is connected to Aerith.

Where we hear the song in Remake

The very first time we hear the instrumental version of song in Remake is in Chapter 8, called “The Flower of Reunion” in Japanese and “Budding Bodyguard” in English. In other words, the first time it plays is on a Chapter entirely dedicated to Cloud and Aerith.

But even more telling is the very first moment we hear the song. It’s when Aerith briefly separates from Cloud in the Sector 5 Slums. It literally starts playing the instant Aerith leaves the party.

Then, it continues to play throughout the chapter as Cloud & Aerith reunite and do different quests together.

Fittingly, the second time we hear the instrumental version of Hollow is in Chapter 13, as Cloud & the party step into the places that Aerith first showed to Cloud  — except that this time, Aerith isn’t with them because she’s been kidnapped by Shinra.

Meaning, Hollow’s instrumental version only plays in Sector 5. Aerith’s Sector.

The last time we hear the song is, of course, in the credits of the game. Where the full version of Hollow plays in full. But I think it’s interesting to think of the moment when the song starts to play.

First, we focus on Cloud & Aerith, standing on a barren place as rain starts to fall down on the party (this will be important later). It’s only after this very shot that the camera pans to the sky and Hollow starts playing.

So three out of three times we hear Hollow, the song can be connected to Aerith.

Which makes perfect sense IMO, because everything about the song itself is connected to Aerith.

Including its title.

The name of the song

While the song is sung in English, the original lyrics were written in Japanese. The original name of the song was actually 「 空っぽの雲 」 “Empty Cloud”, which then became「からっぽの空」aka “Empty Sky” or “Hollow Sky”. And in fact, the Instrumental version of the song that plays in Sector 5 — again, Aerith’s sector —  keeps the Japanese name.

Of course, both “empty” and “hollow” carry the same meaning:

“Having a hole or empty space inside”.

You know what was meant to evoke this exact same feeling in the players? Aerith’s death.

The feelings aroused by Aerith’s death are “a great emptiness” and “If I had know this was coming, I’d have done things differently”.

These are the exact same feelings Cloud sings about in Hollow. 

And what’s more, his pain after losing Aerith was recently referenced in the Final Fantasy 30th Anniversary Exhibition with the following quote:

Which takes me to:

The song lyrics & its ties to the OG and to AC

Since the song was originally written in Japanese, I will be using @gurekura’s literal translation as well as the official translation of the lyrics. You can see their original post on Twitter HERE.

I think that when you read the lyrics, it becomes very obvious that it’s written from the perspective of the original Cloud. The Cloud we see in the Original FF7 as well as in Advent Children, among others. So, of course, it’s no surprise that these lyrics perfectly match various scenes.

What’s telling though, is that just as we’ve seen until now, the lyrics are a perfect match for scenes focusing on Cloud and Aerith.

1.

2.

No matter whether you take these lines literally or figuratively, “healing” easily evokes images of Aerith. Who not only is a healer  — we even see this in AC, where Aerith heals Cloud of Geostigma — but also reaches out to Cloud as he’s broken by pain and guilt in AC and helps him recover.

But while this is all fine and dandy, I can understand why people may think of different scenes while hearing these lyrics.

However, their link to Aerith becomes even more blatant as we go. In fact, from here on out, the lyrics basically quote Cloud’s words, feelings & thoughts in the OG as he faces Aerith’s death.

3.

Was it all a dream? Will I ever know?

Foolish and blind to everything Had I realized, had I noticed it sooner, Would you be here in my embrace?

Word. For. Word. These are literally Cloud’s feelings, pain and regrets after losing Aerith.

4.

Then we have the chorus, where the references to Aerith are also clear because she’s always been known for her bright personality, and for keeping a smile on her face even in the hardest of times.

Remember how Kitase said that “If I had know this was coming, I’d have done things differently” was one of the feelings he wanted to inspire with Aerith’s death? 

That is exactly what Cloud is singing about in this chorus. But this will become more obvious when we get to the end of the song.

5.

This is honestly unequivocally about Aerith, who hid her pain and the weight of her mission behind smiles and comforting words to not pain Cloud and the others.

Hidden within your smile There were secrets

But I was empty I just demanded

This fits perfectly with how blinded Cloud was by his own pain after he lost her, and how this kept him from realizing the truth of her sacrifice.

6.

Then there’s the second chorus, where Cloud once again sings about all the things he would do differently if only he were given a second chance.

And what he wants to do most of all, is to be able to notice Aerith’s pain and the truth hidden behind it.

What’s more, while players may have missed it given the graphics of the OG, Remake itself shows that this is indeed how Aerith is. She is always hiding her pain and heavy truths behind a smile. The perfect example comes in Aerith’s Resolution Scene in Chapter 14, where Aerith tries to reassure Cloud that she doesn’t mind staying in the Shinra Tower.

She does her best to keep a bright smile and a happy front. But if you look closely enough, you can see the sadness in her eyes, a clear reflection of her true feelings.

7.

Lastly, we have Cloud facing the truth. That despite all his regrets, despite how hard he may wish to have a second chance, Aerith is gone. And the song takes us full-circle.

You’re no long here, so I’m empty. Again, this fits perfectly with the feeling Kitase wanted to evoke with Aerith’s death.

And Cloud feeling this way is also backed-up not only by his behavior in AC, but also by insight from Tifa, as shared in Dismantled:

Plus, of course: “She was gone in the blink of an eye. But the pain never went away.”

So really, given everything I’ve mentioned above, I just can’t see this song being about anyone but Aerith. Because the lyrics clearly evoke thoughts and emotions Cloud himself said about her in the original game.

And if you keep Aerith in mind, then...

The imagery of the song

In the Behind the Scenes, Uematsu  also talks about the imagery that inspired the music. This is what he says about it:

Nojima also confirmed that  [Cloud] “standing in the rain” was the second keyword he received to write the lyrics.

The moment I heard this, I thought of one particular scene from Advent Children:

This scene fits the imagery on multiple levels. Cloud is alone, standing on a barren and empty place, as rain pours over him. He lets the rain wash over him, eyes closed.

In this scene, that rain is Aerith’s Great Gospel. It starts falling the moment Kadaj hears Aerith’s voice, heals everyone it touches from Geostigma and Tifa outright speaks to Aerith as she watches a droplet of the rain.

Of course, there’s no way to know exactly what image Uematsu was talking about. But I find this particular scene quite fitting, given all the ties the song has to Aerith.

Not to mention that in the Final Fantasy 30th Exhibition, Aerith says the following about Cloud’s pain after her death: 「もう、泣かないで. 雨になっちゃうよ」 “Don’t cry. You’ll make it rain”. (source)

So, there we have an explicit link between rain — and Cloud’s anguish after he loses Aerith.

To wrap this up, I’ve seen people suggest that the song is about multiple people. I respect that everyone has the right to have a different view-point, but personally, I can’t help but to disagree with this particular one.

Could the song be about multiple people?

There is no evidence of this in the song. At no point does the song switch its focus. At the contrary, the references and themes remain the same all throughout-it  — as does its subject.

Your shining smile = Once more, shine brightly = Once more, laugh again = Hidden within your smile, there were secrets = Had I noticed sooner, would you still be in my embrace? = Show me your smile one more, this time = I'll notice the truth hidden inside your tears

The subject and the imagery remain constant, so it’s safe to assume the song is about one person and one person only. 

And given all the things mentioned above... I hope you can now see why I can’t think of anyone else but Aerith.

If you made it this far, thanks for reading!

[dutchdread]

Rebirth Update 10a

85 Hours played and I finally got to see what I wanted to see for 27 years XD. First things first though, Nibelheim was a god send after Cosmo Canyon and Gongaga. Being able to actually comfortably navigate the map really cut down on annoyance and on the time required to do intel. As much as it pains me to say it Rebirth does a bad job at pathing. In general there are too many quests and moments that feel intentionally slowed down as to artificially bloat the run-time of the game. Like walking behind a bunch of black robes at 1 mph. I enjoyed the story content in Nibelheim, and except for the proto-relic quests (which feel slow in all areas to be honest) the intel gathering was a lot easier to swallow than in former areas as well. I wonder how the Nibelheim segments feel to someone who hasn't played the original game, it sort of feels like they might be making the solution to mystery a bit too obvious, but could just be because I KNOW the twist. I do worry however that rebirth loses a lot of the mystery that makes the original telling so effective. When you first get to Nibelheim in the OG you have no idea why the town is back. Any talk about them rebuilding is just speculation, the player has no idea what the deal is with the people in town, it could just as easily be that Cloud is full of shit. Here though it is immediately outright stated that "yes, Nibelheim burned down, we were hired by Shinra". This removal of mystery is lessened somewhat by the addition of the Zack interludes, but those run the risk of just making the entire story feel less cohesive and more convoluted, although we can't say for certain until part 3 wraps up. The Black robes also seem less scary to me but that might just be a result of modern graphics as well as the inevitable increased information about goings on that comes with it. Apparently the black robes are just handed out by Shinra, ok, who knew. That doesn't really change anything and yet it does make it a bit less creepy for some reason. The scene with Aerith on the water tower could already be seen as an LTD killer tbh. So apparently "staring at Tifa from the water tower" sounds just like Cloud, and that's a good thing since that scores you points with Aerith. Sounds like Aerith is cheerleading Cloud and Tifa again. Also, Tifa straight up calling Cloud out about staring at her as kids, cute as heck and just more to throw on the pile of cloti moments that together just make this entire game feel like the story of Cloud and Tifas relationship. Seriously, Aerith so far has seemed like a minor character, it's almost weird, I feel like I would have put more focus on Aerith this game than the developers did. Every scene feels like Cloud and Tifa and their children, it's not even an LTD, it's the story of two couples. One that is up and coming, and one that is in tragedy. The explicit insertion of Zack into the story as someone that Cloud remembers is really interesting, and when it comes to the LTD it is another death nail, but I do worry whether it was the right choice by the developers. I do love seeing Zack so I suppose I can't complain too much, but I am just a little on edge. Unfortunately one of the best segments of the game was followed by the worst. The Cait Sith segment of Nibelheim was dreadful and felt more like artificial bloating than anything in remake, even worse than deep ground. Apparently there is an underground lab that we have to traverse by very slowly throwing boxes around. I know having a bunch of needless mini-games was a staple in the OG and that they're trying to pay homage to that, but it shouldn't be in the way of story progression. The simple mansion layout with the quest to find a few codes honestly had ten times more atmosphere than this series of portal rooms that ends with the code lazily written on the wall. Definitely a low point.

[iaintyourbro]

I noticed something that sort of ticks me off in Case of Tifa. After Cloud does a delivery for Elmyra to take a bouquet to Aerith's grave he starts staying away from Tifa and Marlene. But then after he finds Denzel and says that Aerith brought Denzel to him and decides to let him live with them and save him from geostigma, Cloud starts being back at home more often again. Did Cloud really start spending more time at home again just b/c of Aerith, and decided to save Denzel just b/c of her?

Hey anon.

The AC/CoT stuff seems to be a popular topic recently. I think it’s good that people are watching ACC and reading the novels since I think it’ll be important to understand both as Remake moves along. They’re pulling all pieces of the compilation into Remake, and the novels are no exception, since Leslie, Marle, and Kyrie have already made appearances. 

The delivery to the Forgotten City caused a old wound to be ripped open. The point of ACC is to show Cloud’s guilt for letting (in his mind) Aerith die. They also tie in Zack since he also feels immense guilt and sadness over that. In CoT they only really say that Cloud does feel guilty because he feels like he couldn’t protect Aerith and prevent her from dying. I don’t think that’s romantic - he was supposed to be her bodyguard and we know from Cloud’s history that he takes these things very seriously. He failed at preventing her from being killed, so he lives with that guilt.

Tifa also has a lot of guilt surrounding Aerith’s death and the Sector 7 plate collapse. They mention her guilt a ton of times, and I find it interesting that it’s not something that’s talked about often online. It’s always about Cloud’s guilt.

Here’s something an anon wrote in that I think is a great summary:

Anon Ask/Statement on Cloud’s Guilt

Tifa’s first time at the Forgotten City, which is shortly after the first defeat of Sephiroth, causes her to break down. The one thing that’s interesting in CoT is Tifa’s guilt slams her almost immediately, while Cloud is the one who seems to be holding it together to support her. 

We see that he’s willing to try and help her be strong. At this point, I’m not sure if he’s fully aware of the amount of guilt that’s settling within him. The point where it really seems to slam him is after he does the delivery for Elmyra. He has PTSD associated with the Forgotten City. I would assume anybody would. I would whether I knew a person closely or not if I saw them murdered in front of me. Especially if I attempted to kill them myself right before. 

Cloud also just generally has PTSD from everything else that’s happened to him. He lost his mother violently, his hometown was burned down, he watched the girl he’s in love with almost die, he was experimented on for four years and then ultimately watched his best friend die in front of him. He’s got a lot of shit going on and now add a reminder of ANOTHER incident in his life, he’s going to spiral.

Cloud also has a tendency to close in on himself. He doesn’t want to be a burden and he’s scared of hurting those he loves. It’s very possible that during this point, he didn’t want to worry Tifa anymore than she already was. So he begins to avoid them. Tifa also is non-confrontational at this point so isn’t going to push him. 

For the Denzel piece: Cloud sees Denzel as a way to repent for his sins of letting Aerith and Zack die. He says Aerith sent Denzel to him not in a romantic sense, but (in his mind) as a way to be forgiven. 

Now, we know Aerith doesn’t blame Cloud for her death. She tells us that in AC. This is all in Cloud’s mind that he’s a failure and he causes all these issues. He’s very selfless, but ends up seeming selfish because he really does pretty much self implode.

It’s not the first time he does this, either. When Tifa falls from Mt. Nibel - he blames himself. He goes through this time when he just becomes and asshole and beats people up. This is the event that causes him to decide to become a SOLDIER. He wants to win Tifa over.

He never tells anybody why he wanted to join SOLDIER. They show that during the Lifestream when Tifa asks him why. It was a sudden decision to everyone around him. Most likely not to Cloud - because Cloud was in his head coming up with all of this stuff. Ultimately, he wanted Tifa to notice him. He wanted to win her over and prove he could protect her. That was his driving force behind joining SOLDIER. 

So now we’ve covered this is just the way Cloud is. In Tifa’s case, he already had a crush on her, so that just grew from there into this deep desire to win her over. In Aerith’s case he didn’t have as strong of a connection to her - he didn’t know her as long - and he was “contracted” to be her bodyguard. He takes these things seriously. 

Cloud and Tifa take Denzel in and Cloud becomes obsessed with finding a cure for Geostigma. We see the books and papers on his desk in Advent Children - so we know this is something he was really looking in to. I relate - I did the same thing when my dad had cancer. You can get into these moods and forget about everything else. Usually somebody has to try and slam you out of it, but it’s hard. 

Tifa also sees Denzel as a way to retribution. She has a lot of guilt over what she did with Avalanche and the Sector 7 plate collapse. Denzel lost his parents in the Sector 7 plate collapse. 

Here is the conversation the two of them have that I think people take out of context. Cloud didn’t say Aerith brought Denzel to him for romantic reasons. He sees it as another chance to save a life. He tells us this - directly. Tifa feels the same was, as we see in the earlier excerpt. If anything, Aerith knew both Tifa and Cloud needed some help here with their inner turmoil. 

On top of it, Tifa feels that Denzel’s arrival strengthened their family. I would think if this was an old flame thing happening, she may feel a bit differently. Cloud decided to cut back to spend more time with the children. This has nothing to do with Aerith. It is also mentioned on a previous page that the bar was starting to lose business because people started realizing a kid with Geostigma lived there. Cloud, Tifa, and Marlene never mention this to Denzel, and instead, they continue to embrace him as part of their family. 

Honestly it’s pretty warm and fuzzy - even though all the darkness in this chapter - Tifa and Cloud are pretty good parents, especially since they’re young and it was kind of thrown on them. Also, it wouldn’t really be nice if Cloud was like “hey I’m dropping another kid off for you to deal with while you’re working the bar and all.”

As for the very last paragraph: We find out later that Cloud ends up with Geostigma and that’s why he left. It was the straw that broke the camel’s back sort of thing. Not only was he failing at saving Denzel, but he also now had what he knew to be a terminal illness in many cases. He now feels he can’t do anything and he runs. He tells us this in AC. 

I don’t think Tifa imagined the promise - because things ultimately end up being okay. Cloud just really thought he was going to die and was going to fail her - being dead means he can’t fulfill his promise to her. 

Here’s an excerpt from Case of Denzel. He mentions Tifa, Cloud, and Marlene. Not just Cloud. He sees them all as his family. He also mentions all of the folks along the way. The bulk of Case of Denzel is him getting to the point of being found at the church. It’s not just about his time with Cloud and Tifa - it’s Denzel’s journey. Johnny is in this one a lot. 

Ultimately, I do have issues with the way Advent Children was handled outside of Japan. Without the novels, it does seem like Cloud is just a depressed mess. You don’t really know why he’s a mess. You know he has Geostigma and you know he feels guilty. Some people took it as him pining for Aerith. Watching ACC and reading the novels, I didn’t get that at all. Many people became Cloti fans because of Advent Children. They were acting like a married couple going through a rough patch. 

They really do only mention his guilt in the novels and his issues with not being able to protect her. We do not have an official “Case of Cloud” so really can only go based on what the other characters are seeing with him and what he’s told them. As I’ve said in previous posts, there’s not canon evidence that his feelings were romantic - especially post Lifestream. 

The novels were released AFTER Advent Children in the US and I don’t think it was very well known. Most of the people I’ve talked to that are casual fans never saw Advent Children as romantic for him and Aerith. Especially since Zack was around. The ending alone makes people laugh when they find out they think Cloud and Aerith had any romance - he calls her “Mom” - her boyfriend is there with her and they’re acting like foster parents. 

I think with Remake, they’ll make things a bit more clear. I think ACC does a good job of making the guilt feel a bit more broad between Aerith and Zack. I wish it would have covered a bit more about Tifa’s guilt like Case of Tifa does, and maybe it would seem less romantic, since they seem to be having the same inner turmoil.

I think if people fully played OG, played Crisis Core, read the novels, and then watched ACC, they’d realize this all comes together pretty clearly. Dirge of Cerberus doesn’t show too much of he full original gang, but you do get to see a much happier Cloud and Tifa in it. The phone conversation is cute and hilarious - especially since since Barret is being ridiculous and Tifa yells at him.

Aerith and Zack are a thing. Cloud and Tifa are a thing. Cloud and Tifa have some serious problems with dealing with what goes on in their heads and it’s resolved by the end of Advent Children. Zack and Aerith give him that look at the end like “Alright, everything should be good now. Don’t disappoint us!” 

I also really do not think Cloud is going to pine after his best friend’s girl. Cloud isn’t a douchebag. He’s a nice guy. He respects people. Zack was his one and only best friend. Zack saved his life. I really think if people would remember to pull Zack into these conversations, they’d realize that it’s ridiculous to think that Cloud was after his dead best friend’s dead girlfriend. 

Additional Reading:

Advent Children Anon Ask  (About Romance)

Cloud and Tifa Ask - Advent Children

Why Zack is Important to Cloud

The Future of the LTD (This has a links to other blogs as well - so there is a variety of opinions here, including from a CA multishipper)

Case of Tifa and the Kids are Alright

[soularia]

In some versions of Origins, Cullen's a combination of Amon Goeth, Emperor Palpatine and Voldemort...and he is a rapist.  In the version of Origins I have (Ultimate Edition from GOG), he's an awkward 19-year-old who doesn't know how to talk to girls.

I was one of the people who couldn’t understand what the big deal about him was during the Origins/DA2 era but during DAI, all the noise prompted me to look into the character.  This is his dialogue with a female mage during the origin story.

This is one line that I’ve seen people use against him:

HoW RoMaNtIc YoU tElL uR cRuSh ThAt U wErE gOiNg To KiLl HeR...then the same people turn around and swoon over Alistair’s awkwardness.  Is it normal to be nervous around the person you like?

He’s probably internally freaking out and had million of things running through his head: stay calm, be cool, don’t say anything stupid.  Then he does just that.  I bet he realized what he said right after the words left his mouth and wanted the ground to open up and swallow him.

Cullen: I’m so glad I didn’t have to kill you

Cullen:

Cringelord Cullen.

They should’ve kept “questioned whether I could’ve helped you...” in the actual dialogue, ugh.  Cullen, you fool!

He can barely form a coherent sentence and says stupid stuff in Amell/Surana’s presence, and people act like he’s forcing himself on her every night.

What are you thinking of that’s really inappropriate, Cullen?  What fanfiction were you writing in your head?

His crime is having feelings for a Female Mage Warden...as if people have the ability to control who they fall in love with.

The problem with the fandom is the complete absence of nuance lol.  Rules (and the like) are cut and dry, but it doesn’t always translate well into reality because we’re human, imperfect and messy.  In this case, Mage/Templar relationships are forbidden but this didn't stop many from getting involved with each other, if you talk to Enchanter Ellendra in DAI, those kind of romantic entanglements seem common (Greagoir and Wynne?  It seems Greagoir never got over how Wynne hid his son from him, and I like to think he picked Cullen to slay Amell because he was trying to prevent him from going down the same path).

I think I got a toothache.  What a 𝒞𝒾𝓃𝓃𝒶𝓂𝑜𝓃 𝒷𝓊𝓃.

As for power dynamics, here’s another angle: it's Amell/Surana who has a lot of power over Cullen.  She figuratively stripped away the armor and revealed the man inside.  Cullen probably feels completely exposed and powerless around her, not able to completely hide behind the Templar persona.  If Amell/Surana wanted, she could've exploited this for her benefit (and no, I don’t mean sex but manipulation).  It's a bit like blood magic, except it's not...maybe this is why he goes full Militant Templar after Broken Circle and turned into a massive asshole during the early half of DA2.  He feels terrible about his affections because it’s against the rules (this is also due to him being new on the job).  His train of thought must’ve been: years of training, discipline, study and all it took was a girl/a look/a smile...surely his torture at the hands of the blood mages was a judgement from the Maker for failing to be a proper Templar...because proper Templars do not have feelings, proper Templars do not think about people they were watching over that way.

Some (not all) Cullen hate reminds me of Tifa hate:  it’s done in bad faith (hE cAlLs AmElL/sUrAnA a “THING”1!1).  On the other hand, some fans are...cringy.

And this is how I started shipping Cullen with my warden (post-Inquisition, pre-Origins Cumell is meh).  I’d like to extend my heartfelt gratitude to the fandom for pointing me in this direction.

[rune-writes]

I'll Come Visit

Fandom: Final Fantasy VII

@zerith-week » Day 2: Promise

Word Count: 2344

Rating: G

Summary: All Zack ever gave Aerith were promises: promises of a date, to see the sky, and to come visit after he returns from Nibelheim.

Chapter 2 of Of Wishes and Promises: Zerith Week 2021

Read on AO3.

~*~*~*~*~

All Zack ever gave Aerith were promises. The first was the promise of a date, the first time he met her when he dropped out of the sky and onto her flowerbed. The second was to show her the sky, because it wasn’t as scary as she thought, and he wanted her to see it. Then he bought her a ribbon and said they should make fun, little promises for when they next met.

“For example, when we meet, you always have to dress in pink.”

Aerith giggled and said that was silly, and it was, but it’d be fun. So she nodded and said okay and wondered what kind of pink dress she had that she could wear.

Then just before he left for Nibelheim, they went to the Sector 6 playground to sell flowers. Operation: Midgar Full of Flowers, Wallet Full of Money seemed to have a good start. The blooms were a big hit. One woman wished she could see them grow all around the slums.

“Yeah, that’s me and Aerith’s dream,” Zack said. “Not just the slums, either. We want to fill the whole of Midgar with flowers!”

Only a dream then, one he hoped would come true once he returned to Midgar, when he could finally take her to the city above and sell flowers under the sky together.

***

Zack sighed at the heavens above as he lay on his back. Thin wisps of cotton-soft clouds drifted past; though, did anyone really know whether clouds were cotton-soft? An age-old imagery that originated from how it looked from the ground, made by people who had too much time on their hands with too little thoughts in their minds.

Zack had too much time on his hands now. With Sephiroth having locked himself in the mansion’s library and still no lead on their investigation, there had been nothing to do but check on the reactor every day. Everything stayed the same. The monsters still slept in their pods, no more reactor malfunctioning, no more signs of Genesis—or any other intruders for that matter.

Cloud would grab any chance he could get to accompany Zack. Probably to escape the town and its people. Probably to be near their ebony-haired guide. He couldn’t blame the guy, and he had no intention to interfere, but sometimes, Zack would look at his stubborn younger friend and wish Cloud would let loose and show them who he really was. Not a SOLDIER, but still a proud member of Shinra’s infantrymen. They’d understand.

When the time came to return to town, he let the two kids go on ahead, saying he wanted to explore more of the mountain. Tifa offered to come with him, but Zack refused. It was still light out. If he’d gotten lost, his SOLDIER pride would be at stake.

Zack had expected a chuckle at the very least, but his guide only stared at him and said, “Okay.” Then she looked at the grunt and nodded her head down the mountain path. “Shall we, then?”

Grunt Cloud jerked, and for a fraction of a second, his wild, panicked eyes met Zack’s through his helmet visor. Zack waited until Tifa had turned and walked away before he slapped Cloud on the back and whispered, “You got this.”

“I got this.” A self-reassuring nod; Cloud gripped his rifle tighter before following Tifa down the mountain. They walked with a little distance between them, but never too far apart. Zack watched, a little grin playing across his lips.

He’d set off in another direction then: a greener, more life-abundant direction; a contrast to the barren, jagged mountain he’d left behind. He’d found the clearing shortly after, with trees on one side and a sheer drop on the other. It overlooked the Nibel plains and the small town below with the clear blue sky stretching far into the horizon.

Fragments of a cloud broke away into little dots, collecting in places that, somehow, reminded him of the yellow blossoms he’d find growing under the shades of a dilapidated church. Thoughts of the blossoms led to thoughts of the flower girl, and Zack couldn’t help but draw another long breath.

It’d been a week since he arrived in Nibelheim, longer still since he last saw Aerith. The closest interaction he'd gotten was the phone call mere days after reaching the mountain village. His PHS had rung when he’d been about to go to the mansion, and it had taken him by surprise when her voice came out of the receiver. But he’d been too busy then, so he’d told her that he’d call later.

“No, no, you don’t have to.” There had been a slight drop to her tone.

He'd pressed his lips together. “Okay, then I’ll come visit.”

“I’ll be here.”

Zack hadn't missed the momentary pause or the wistful sigh, hadn't forgotten her downcast eyes when he told her he would leave Midgar for a job. There had been nothing else he could say but: “I’ll see you, I promise.” He could almost see her smile as he hung up, hoping it had been enough until he returned to her side.

The drifting clouds offered a brief respite from the sun's harsh glare. Summer had long since gone and autumn was well on its way, but Zack still felt hot. Hot and restless and sweaty and wishing he was back under the cover of the church, where a ray of pleasant sunlight slanted in through the broken rooftop right onto her flowerbed. He’d doze on her lap, and Aerith would weave a flower crown to put around his head, and when he opened his eyes, he would see the brightest smile he had ever seen.

Zack reached for his PHS in his pocket. He had half a mind to go to his mails before he realized Aerith didn’t have a PHS. She’d borrowed Tseng’s when she called him before. Zack didn't want to call Tseng. The last time he did, the Turk had chuckled and said that he was at work, that he had one of his men watching her and that she was safe. He would, however, send her Zack’s regards the next time he saw her. Zack's mouth twitched at the memory.

What if he called her house? Elmyra probably wouldn't mind. The last time he met her, she had acted like he was already part of the family. It made him smile and miss her homemade stew, miss the warmth of the kitchen and the vibrant colors in her garden, miss that motherly touch.

But as good as the idea sounded, it was still daylight and Aerith was probably not home. He stared at the open mail draft on his PHS screen, then typed in Kunsel's name.

‘What are you doing?’

The reply came shortly after: ‘If you resorted to mail me in the middle of a mission, I can only imagine how bored you must be feeling right now. So let me tell you some good news, friend. I visited that church your Aerith frequented and I gotta say, she is such a lively fella. You have no idea all the little details she’d asked me of you.’

Zack jumped, glaring into his PHS screen as those last few words hammered their way into his head. He dialed Kunsel’s number. Kunsel immediately picked up.

“What the hell did you think you were doing?”

On the other side of the line, Kunsel cackled—a shoulder-shaking, back-bending, stomach-hurting cackle. “Gods, I can’t believe you fell for that one.”

Zack blinked, too mortified to catch up with the joke.

“I’m on a mission, if you remember—or maybe you don’t. Different from the one when you left for Nibelheim. With our Firsts out on a mission on the other side of the Planet, it seems the top brass has decided to have the rest of us—meaning us, Second-Class—take the lead on the remaining jobs. So I’ve been away, again. Far away from your lovely girl. So you have nothing to worry about.”

Another blink. Right.

“How’s the job anyway?”

A short pause, and maybe it was the easy-going tone of his voice that made Zack's tongue loosen up and tell Kunsel about the current state of his investigation, the current state of Sephiroth, the current state of his restlessness. Then at the end of it, Kunsel chuckled.

“Even in the middle of a mission, you still got time to worry about your girl.” Zack heard a scoff, soft and amused. “She’s fine. Aren’t the Turks watching her?”

“They are…” But even knowing that, there was a disquiet in his heart that he couldn’t quite figure where it was coming from.

“Well, if it’s any help at all, I promised to check up on her, didn’t I? Once I get back from my assignment, I’ll see how she is. Does that ease you?”

It did, even if only a little.

“So just focus on your assignment right now and make sure you get your ass back in Midgar. Quick.” Then he added, “You know I have a whole folder of you sneezing out snot, right?”

“Kuns—!”

The line was cut. The last thing Zack heard was his friend's laughter. It still echoed even when Zack had put his PHS down and stared at the screen, when he laid back on the sunny grass and covered his eyes with an arm. Maybe it was a bad idea to have Kunsel check on Aerith. Who knew what the guy would show her? All the embarrassing details of Zack's life! But Kunsel was the only person Zack could trust in SOLDIER right now…

Zack let out another quiet exhale. He lifted his arm. The clouds drifting past looked uncannily like the girl with the brightest smile.

***

He called a little after dusk. Zack was alone in his room; Sephiroth was still not back; Cloud and the other grunt stood watch somewhere. A few moments passed with only the dial tone filling his ears. And then:

“Hello?”

The smile came unbidden. Like a dam about to burst, his lips wavered at the intensity of the emotions overcoming him—overwhelming him.

“Aerith?”

“Zack?” Her surprise was almost palpable. He could imagine her wide-eyed stare as she stood beneath the warm lights of her home. “This is a surprise. You're not busy?”

“Aw, don’t you miss me?”

She giggled, and it was the most beautiful sound in the entire world. “Silly.”

They talked about everything and anything: what she was doing, how her days had been. "Same old, same old," she said. Tending to her flowers, running errands around the slum, then just as she’d headed for the church, the Leaf House kids had crowded around her and asked where Zack was.

Zack chuckled. “And what’d you tell them?”

“That Zack is on a very important job right now, but he’ll be back very soon and give everyone presents.” Her laugh made him smile, and he imagined her sitting next to the pots and vases, swaying her feet and twirling her hair. He closed his eyes, committing it to memory.

“Hey, Aerith.”

“Yeah?”

When he made that promise to visit, Zack had thought they would finish their mission soon and he'd be back by Aerith's side before she knew it. But it had been a week since then, and he was still stuck in a small mountain town with nothing to do but look for missing persons who refused to be found and wait on a stubborn comrade who refused to leave.

“Think I’d have to take a rain check on that promise. I don’t think I can come back soon.”

“Oh.” She paused. “Okay.” Then, because maybe she’d noticed the hesitancy in his voice: “Is there something wrong?”

“No, no, nothing wrong.” He was quick to answer, quick to ease her worry, even as his mind went to the mansion sitting on the town's outskirts, where Sephiroth was still perusing the many thick volumes stored in the basement. The last time Zack had checked on him, he'd been unaware of Zack’s presence. It’d been like talking to a statue, if statues could walk and talk. Ceaseless mutterings; unending strides; then at times, Sephiroth would stop and look up, and Zack would sigh and thought, finally! Because the meal the townspeople had prepared still lay untouched on the table, and all of Zack’s attempts to tell him to rest had flown over his head. But like a man possessed, Sephiroth had only walked past without truly seeing him, then discarded the book in favor of another.

“Zack?”

Zack blinked, then said again, “Nothing’s wrong.” It was less convincing. “Anyway,” he went on, brightening his voice. “Did you really tell the kids I’d bring them presents?”

“Of course,” she said, her voice too chirpy, as though she’d noticed his unease and opted to play along with his act. “Well, you have to give them something , after all their efforts to learn your combat moves. They’re really taking this Protection Squad business seriously, you know.” She giggled, and he chuckled too.

The kids had been hounding him every time he took the trip beneath the plate. What was supposed to be a quality time with Aerith always ended up as sword-fighting lessons with a bunch of children. Not that he minded them. The more time Zack spent with them, the more endearing they all seemed to him.

“Then I’d better get them something really good.” He wondered if the store next door sold souvenirs. He could ask Cloud for advice. Or Tifa. “But don’t tell them yet. It’ll be a surprise.”

He could feel her smile as she said, “Sure thing.” In the distance, he heard Elmyra’s call. Aerith had to hang up. “Do you think we can talk again tomorrow?”

“Of course. I’ll call you. Or you can call me too, if you want.”

“Really? Then maybe I’ll do that.”

Zack’s lips parted into the slightest grin. “I’ll be here.” Another promise. Her goodbye was the last thing he heard before Aerith ended the call.

~ END ~