#sorry. to any... mormons?

[britneyshakespeare]

wait i just remembered a weird dream i had last night. i was going through some kind of stack of applications or profiles or something. it was something teacher-related. all the kids were from some kind of mormon group that i was... doing this work for? idk IDK the important thing was the kids were part of the church of jesus christ and latter-day saints and i was reviewing their information for data purposes. the information was filled out by the kids and one of the sections was simply "ethnicity"—specifically ethnicity and not race. because ethnicity is something that can actually be a meaningful part of your identity, and race is a concept created by white supremacy, and no one loves pointing that out more than white people, right? i'm white myself. i think white people would much rather say "oh i'm irish" "i'm german" "i'm italian" because it signifies their family comes from something and somewhere. as soon as we say "i'm white" it denotes nothing but a privileged status we only have because of colonialism and white supremacy. but even that privileged status doesn't necessarily mean much by itself because we can be marginalized in other ways, which white people also like to point out when it can apply to themselves. but then again some white people really don't have any connection to the culture(s) of their ancestors and feel they have no claim upon anything better than being a white american, which is more the fault of the pressure of immigrants to assimilate than it is most people's fault as individuals.

but. this is a long preamble. i was going through these mormon kids' information. mormons are stereotypically white, right? there's a lot of white people. i've never been part of the mormon church so i don't feel like i can elaborate on it more than that. i know bc of the work of missionary's they're not all exclusively white but the origins of mormonism are certainly white and american. and on the ethnicity question, like, almost every single one of these mormon kids said "white and poor" "poor white" "underprivileged white". that kind of thing. i remember going through it and i was like "theres no way all these kids are that poor. where are they getting this identification from as an ethnicity"

[vh-rasz]

an appeal that i can draw more actor-accurate ish moremen art

[quibblegoobe]

bahhh the suckers wip

[gxlden-angels]

As you all know, I was raised in one of those wack ass "non-denominational" pentecostal churches. I was always taught anyone not pentecostal/baptist/methodist or within that realm weren't actually christians. Essentially, if your group had a Name™️ like Mormons, JWs, Catholics, etc. then u were that group, not "[That Group] Christians"

[stcecelia]

mocumentary-style sitcom about an LDS institute class / student ward about all the shenanigans the YSAs get into. featured arcs include general conference viewing party, attending trek with the stake youth, returned missionaries adjusting to being off the mission, road trips to church historical sites, The Wedding Episode, someone invited their non-member roommate and the talks are kind of weird/its Fast Sunday, Baptism Episode, etc. would ideally include lots of references to LDS cult classics such as The Best Two Years, the singles ward, and such. also one character would have a Tumblrstake / Queerstake blog

working title is just "The Student Ward" but im open to suggestions lol

EDIT: IM SO SORRY I DIDNT MEAN TO TAG THIS AS LDSHADOWLADY I THOUGHT I DELETED THAT ACCIDENTAL AUTO-TAG LMAO THATS MY BAD

fun fact I used to watch Lizzie all the time as a kid (still occasionally do) and I used to think she was Mormon because... LDS hadowLady lol

[xx-thedarklord-xx]

Do you ever hear rhetoric from right wing people or very religious people that’s supposed to be empowering? And it IS but in the complete opposite affect? That happened to me today, and my mind is a little blown

Came across a clip of a man preaching to a bunch of religious people on belief and faith. He used an analogy that I personally never heard before. It boiled down to a man on a tightrope over a dangerous ravine with an observer. After he successfully crosses the rope, he asks the person watching him if he believes that he can do it again but with a wheelbarrow. The person says yes, I just saw you do it fine. I’m sure you’ll do it again. The man reiterates, ‘You believe that I can do it but do you have faith that I can?’

The observer says it’s the same thing, that he both believes and has faith that he can do it. Okay. The man then tells him, ‘If you have faith that I can do it then get in the wheelbarrow.’

The analogy is supposed to make people feel empowered and enlightened. Which it did, but in the opposite way. I didn’t hear that and think ‘wow I need to get in the wheelbarrow and put my faith in god.’

That’s when it hit me that no, I don’t have faith. I’m not getting in that wheelbarrow and I’m not even going to watch the man attempt it.

It was freeing. Completely freeing and despite the intentions of the analogy, I am incredibly grateful I heard it

Makes me wonder what other analogies people found power in despite the original intentions of it

[daenystheedreamer]

so my partners high school gf was a Mormon and when she got engaged she went to extreme lengths to make sure he did not find out. when he did eventually find out he was like “lmfao why” bc at that point they were both only like 20 and in their 3rd year of college. this happened within the first month of us dating and I thought it was hilarious. we’re both gay men btw

love wins<3

[panicbones]

i think one of the biggest most egregiously contradicting shit religion wise ive seen is big ass (christrian esque) churches actively putting up wards against homeless people. bro i thought your whole thing was helping the needy what the hell is this

[megafaunaknight]

Cannot recommend Heretic enough omg

[egotistic-queer]

NEW TUMBLR THEME UNLOCKED : ASK BOX TRICK OR TREATING / HALLOWEEN

(art reference under cut, my Tumblr Halloween costume is Kevin Price :])

[driftwooddestiel]

love looking for studio c / jk studios related content cos its like 60% random things that contain the word studio, 20% LDS propaganda, 15% incorrect quotes, and 5% actual content of some kind

[dexterisnthometoday]

[yuripira4e]

awful awful news that rewatching twilight might get me back into editing

[beechersnope]

ppl love to just say things about twilight

[maspers]

Oh! You're asking about Outer Darkness. Let's see if I can help out. Disclaimer tho I'm just a random guy on the internet so be aware that my personal understanding of my faith could be coloring my explanation somewhat, despite my efforts not to.

First: yes, as the existence of such a place implies, we do believe in a possibility for eternal punishment. If we're talking about permanent hell, this is the place. The reason tons of LDS folks like to act like it doesn't is because 1) it sounds nicer and unfortunately people care too much about their reputations and 2) the chances of going to Outer Darkness is like. ASTRONOMICALLY small.

There's an old joke that if you ask a Mormon what happens after you die, they'll draw you a map (as opposed to a Catholic who will tell you to ask your priest and a Protestant who will tell you to ask your Bible, iirc how the joke goes). And honestly, it's true. LDS theology has its afterlife occur in multiple stages. The Spirit World is when you go where you die. But EVENTUALLY Jesus is gonna show up again (probably at the end of the apocalypse because dramatic timing) and EVERYONE is gonna get resurrected. And while the resurrecting is going on there's like a thousand years of awesomeness and getting some last-minute ordinance work done. Shenanigans ensue, everyone teams up to beat up Satan one last time (long story) and THEN and only then do we get to the Final Judgement, when it's FINALLY decided where people are going to be for eternity.

At every point BEFORE the final judgement, everything is ultimately temporary and can be forgiven or whatever because Jesus is awesome. Immortality is a guarantee for literally everyone, and even the people who DONT repent and become good people will still get a spot in a Kingdom of Glory, which even the lowest is referred to as better than anything humanity can comprehend (LDS folk don't do what they do because they want to get into Heaven, they do what they do because they want ALL THE PERKS). Getting into a Kingdom of Glory is essentially the DEFAULT.

But, at the final judgement, it IS possible for someone to do something that can never be forgiven. If you stand at the final judgement, with a perfect knowledge of EVERYTHING (because like, it's the final judgement, your entire past and the past of the UNIVERSE is laid out in front of you, you have complete understanding of what the universe is, how it works, and God's role in all of it) and then essentially give God the middle finger and say "screw you God, I hate you and deny you and everything you stand for"... He still won't send you to Outer Darkness. You have to do that to Him, AND Jesus, AND the Holy Ghost (LDS folk believe they're separate people, not a long story but not worth going into here) and basically also give literally every thing that's good the middle finger as well in the process, because ultimately everything good in the world comes back to those three. Then, and ONLY then, will you be declared a Son of Perdition (though really it should be "Child of Perdition" now, the term originates from scriptural text, obviously people who aren't male could still in theory become a Son of Perdition) and you'll go to Outer Darkness to chill with Satan and be depressed for eternity. I cannot emphasize enough that the people who go to Outer Darkness will go there of their own free will and choice, with a perfect understanding of the decision they are making. Despite what some people might tell you (and what some very stupid LDS folk might believe) Mormonism is heavily built on the concept of free will, and getting sent to Outer Darkness is no exception. You only go there if you WANT to.

And honestly, that's a REALLY stupid thing to do? The amount of people who will end up as Sons of Perdition is INSANELY small, especially compared to the amount of humans that have lived and will live. In all of scripture we only know of to meet the criteria is Cain, and he was only able to meet the criteria because of the unique circumstances at the start of Genesis, it's pretty much impossible for ANYONE to qualify during mortality, or at any other point before Judgement. Cain just is Like That I guess. (Incidentally Cain will explicitly RULE the place, because Satan is a loser and doesn't have a body so he can't be in charge). Some people claim Judas Iscariot also qualifies but that's not backed up by any scriptural or prophetic text, and frankly that idea doesn't make much sense to me.

The kicker is in theory, Outer Darkness technically isn't permanent either. If a Son of Perdition were to recant their ultimate middle finger to God and everything else, they would in theory be allowed to leave. The only reason it IS permanent is because at that point the idea of spitefully rejecting the glory of God is so engrained in their being that they will never repent. It's become their entire nature. (I'll admit this part isn't stated explicitly in scripture anywhere, for obvious reasons Outer Darkness isn't talked about much in the text, but it can be reasonably extrapolated from what we know about the nature of God and mankind based ON the text).

So TLDR: Outer Darkness is a thing in LDS theology, and so is Eternal Punishment, but the only people who go there LITERALLY ask for it. You're almost certainly not going there. Don't worry about it.

As for how this affects the LDS perception of Hell... like every religion, YMMV. Different members view things differently. Some people mistakenly believe that if you're a member of the Church and then leave or otherwise start being a bad person, you'll go to Outer Darkness. This explicitly isn't the case. But Outer Darkness as we understand it is the part of our theology that most closely resembles the traditional Christian idea of hell (though with less fire and brimstone and more just eternal self-loathing and anger), so if a Latter-Day Saint is referring to Hell as a specific place, then they're probably referring to here.

However, when an LDS person mentions Hell, they could ALSO be referring to:

Spirit Prison, where the people who didn't do All The Right Things in life go when they die. Not as bad as it sounds. Like yeah there's suffering but as we understand it it's probably like the "You feel your sins crawling up your back" thing from Undertale where you're just hating yourself because of your guilt. Regardless of if you stay here or end up transferring to Spirit Paradise, you still probably won't go to Outer Darkness. This takes place before the Judgement (long before) but since it's IMMEDIATELY after mortality it sometimes gets conflated with Hell as "bad place you go when you die"

Spiritual Death, aka what Hell as a concept MOST likely is being referred to by LDS. Literally just referring to a spiritual separation from god. Physical Death is when your body dies (oof) and Spiritual Death is when you metaphorically die by not being Christlike, and can really happen at any time. Jesus, being the awesome person He is, provides salvation from BOTH kinds of death (He breaks the "chains of death and hell") so like. Don't even worry about it. Incidentally, since literally everyone is experiencing some level of Spiritual death right now because we're designed to be flawed during mortality, we're technically all in hell right now! Yayyyyyyyyy. Again, don't worry, this is part of the process, part of the point of mortality is to fail and get back up.

So Second TLDR: Outer Darkness is generally known and understood by LDS communities, but like. We don't worry about it too much. Usually when an LDS folk talks about hell in a religious sense they're talking about the concept of (ideally temporary) Spiritual Death.

"Maspers are you going to cite your sources" No, this is tumblr and I'm lazy. the other LDS folks can back me up and correct me if I'm wrong. Peer review ftw.

seeing people discussing the concept of hell and how cruel the idea of eternal punishment is like, wow! i know this belief system you would love if not for your knee-jerk reaction against its name

[inbabylontheywept]

Memories of Grandpa Hank

I'm eating a bag of mormon gorp that tastes like gasoline while watching the rain run down the mountain. The taste doesn't even bother me anymore - all homemade gorp tastes like this. It's just a natural consequence of everyone keeping their prepper shit in their garages. 

My dad's out in the clearing, wandering around with his GPS. He's got some pieces of wire out on top of it to try and make the effective antennae bigger, but it just makes it look like he's dowsing. Another mormon tradition. I ask him if he's close to find water yet, and he looks up at me, little rivers flowing off him, and says yeah - he can feel it. 

I'm sure he can. I settle under my tree and watch the droplets roll down the needles. Awaiting the final judgement of Judge GPS. 

A few minutes later, it provides: 

Turns out my dad forgot to record the location of the car this morning. The GPS remembers where we parked yesterday, but by luck my dad knows how to get from there to our car. Downside is that it's a nine mile walk just to get to yesterday's position, then another five miles to backtrack. That's fourteen miles total. 

I'm only thirteen. 

Think you can make it? my dad asks. And it's a kindness that he's worried, but it's not like there's an alternative. What else would I do, sit down in the murk and cross my fingers he finds me again? Ask him to carry me 14 miles? 

I'll be pretty jelly legged, I say. But yeah. I'll make it. 

Attaboy, he says. He fishes a bag of poptarts out and offers me one as - I think - a peace offering. A, sorry you're gonna have to walk 14 miles in the rain because I goofed kind of gift. 

I take a bite and, despite being individually wrapped, it still manages to taste like diesel fumes. We start hiking our incredibly long distance in terrible weather for foolish reasons, and I joke to my dad that the only way to make this day any more mormon would be by pushing handcarts. 

He laughs. Neither of us laugh again until 11 pm, when we stumble like drunkards into camp. My grandpa has stayed up late to make sure we weren’t lost, but he only stays up long enough to see us arrive. We try to eat a dinner of sweet potato stew, but after falling asleep in the middle twice, we agree to just go to bed. 

I sleep in well past nine and wake up to nobody in camp but my grandpa. My dad left with my sister to keep hunting around 5 am. I know that everyone assumes that their dad is invincible when they're 13, but I'm 28 now and part of me still thinks he's gonna live forever. That God made exactly one perpetual motion machine, and it raised me in the desert. 

---

Around noon my grandpa suggests hunting again. If it was my dad, I'd probably tune him out, but I like my grandpa's style of hunting. My dad hikes and hikes and hikes until the elk get tired and just let him shoot them. My grandpa finds the sleepiest, sunniest, coziest field and takes a nap there, figuring if the elk have any decent taste they'll come there at some point.

Man's got a knack for knowing what elk like - he's right more often than not. I think he might've been an elk in a previous life. 

I go with him, and much as I hate to admit it, the hike is good for me. I start off walking like a pirate on two peg legs, so stiff I might as well not have knees, but by the end of the mile and a half walk I'm almost normal. We make it to the edge of the clearing, and my grandpa finds a patch of grass taller and softer than the beds inside the trailer, and he curls up to sleep there. I look across the grass and I watch the comings and goings of critters through the field. Sometimes I use the scope to get a magnified view, but I never do so with my hand on the trigger. The thought of accidentally looking a person through that glass is something that sends a chill up my spine. 

Some deer wander through the glen, but it'd take a fool to mistake one of them for an elk. A few hours later, my grandpa wakes up and asks if I want to wander around a little. It's a lovely day. Rain comes in bursts in Arizona, and the day after is almost always clear as can be. And for a short while, all the desert browns turn green and lush. Hard mosses turn squishy and cacti swell up like fresh baked muffins and for a while you can get why people settled in these god forsaken wastes. 

So I go with him, and we walk on, me with my gun, him just taking in the forest. He looks so peaceful that I get a little jealous, but it's not until my grandpa stops and looks at me that I even notice it myself. Takes a mirror, sometimes, to know yourself.

Being near my grandpa is always a strange thing for me. He's quiet, and he doesn't talk much, and I don't ever get the feeling that he's particularly emotionally intelligent - but it's like he's interacting with a reality more raw and real than mine. Like I'm watching symbols on a screen and he's counting atoms. And sometimes, just being near him gives me access to that raw matter. Just something about how he is breaks the illusions of the world.

He looks at the gun like a foreign object, like he doesn't recognize it, then he looks at me. He speaks and he doesn't mince words. 

What would you do if an elk came across the path and you shot it right now? he asks. 

Well, I'd start cleaning it, I say, and he waves the words away like cobwebs in his face. 

But would you celebrate? he presses.

And I look at him, and I don't actually see any judgement staring back. He knows the answer, and he's at peace with it. He’s asking so I can see it too. He’s being a mirror so I can see my own face.

I think I might actually cry, I admit. And he nods along in agreement before reaching forward to take the gun off my shoulder. 

Lets just walk today, he says. No chance of killing anything. No worrying about that. 

Right, I say. 

He pops the chamber open and tosses me back my bullet. I catch it, and the relief I feel is palpable. 

Can I change my mind? I ask, and he shrugs.

Whenever you want. Hunt or don’t. It’s not the hunting that I’m worried about. It’s seeing you ignore your conscience.

And for a moment, I'm there in the real world with him, and my gloves are off, and reality is a metal cube in my hand: Sharp and cold and heavy.

Or maybe that’s just the bullet.

---

We make it back to camp a bit later than my dad. We get there and he’s waiting for us. If he's tired, he doesn't show it. 

How'd it go? he asks. My grandpa looks at me, and I don't know how to respond. I don't know how to explain it, and I am scared. 

Great, he replies. It's a shame Babs only has a doe tag. We saw a five-point out there. Close enough to hit with a football. 

No, my dad says. If his grin was a half inch wider, both ends of his mouth would meet in the back of his head and everything above his tongue would slide off.

Tell him Babs, grandpa says. And, not for the first time, and especially not the last, I try my hand at spinning a yarn. 

It's pretty good. But at 13, I still have a lot to learn.