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menelaiad · 11 months

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Agamemnon is explicitly stated to be hot/muscular. It's in the source material. Books 2 and 3 in particular. I highly doubt being compared to the Gods meant being "chubby" or super old. The ancient text obviously wouldn't say "ripped" because that wasn't in their vocabulary. But they refer to him as everything else that such a body would imply.

And Achilles was saying things in anger in Book 1. Everyone forgets how in Book 23, Achilles pretty much retracts everything he said and claims Agamemnon is the best natural warrior which he was.

tldr; im a petty bitch

y'all are SO PRESSED ON THIS LMAOOO I'M CRYING

'ripped' isn't in their vocabulary?? but 'hot' and 'muscular' are? really?

AGAIN about your last point, cause people who are so pressed about this just keep ignoring it: YOU CAN BE A WARRIOR. AND NOT BE CONVENTIONALLY 'RIPPED'. NOTHING ABOUT A HUMAN BEING - A HUMAN MAN HAVING A SLIGHT TUMMY WILL STOP HIM BEING ABLE TO RUN, FIGHT, KILL PEOPLE AND BE A WARRIOR. YOUR WEIGHT IS NOT AN AUTOMATIC INDICATOR OF YOUR FITNESS LEVEL/ABILITIES.

that's y'alls prejudice about larger people coming through. this stupid belief that the ancient world represented 'the peak masculine alpha ideal' no????? this whole 'if man strong and can stab and have sex with woman then man must be muscley and ripped cause that make man sexy' like shut up.

it's baffling to me that you're all so heated on this. the mere thought of a human man having a tummy is sending you all west. you can't cope. a human man who consumed copious amounts of alcohol (because ancient greeks just did???) and probably had a very rich diet. having tummy??? NO. ILLEGAL.

im sorry but im cracking up over here. i couldnt care less whether people think aga has a 16-pack, that he's skinny as a twig, that he's fat, that he's not, that he's somewhere in between - idc. but your adamancy against 'slight tummy' aga. is just ..... fatphobic. and i never thought i'd type that word out being a fucking classics blog lmaooo.

i have shared so many DUMB opinions on this blog. from menelaus' teeth to odyssues' hairy feet and yet the thing that gets the most reaction from people - is agamemnon's weight.

that's what's pissing me off. everything else? whatever have your own opinion, you weird menelaus girl. but the sECOND i say why i think i character might be a lil chubby OOF ouTRAGE. IM A FOOL.

also your point is just so incredible. my issue isn't with you thinking aga was a ripped sex god crafted by aphrodite herself. it's your use of the word 'explicitly' cause aga's size (in regards to his weight) is NEVER explicitly stated ANYWHERE. so we're both just having our own opinions. but mine has got you so pressed????

i own a couple translations of the iliad. lets look at some. and see the descriptions of aga, shall we? cause i know exactly which sections you mean in book 2 and 3. contrary to your apparent belief, i have read the iliad.

we'll do book 2 first to make it all easier to follow:

PETER GREEN

“among them the lord Agamemnōn, in eyes and head like Zeus who delights in the thunderbolt, like Arēs in girth, and with the chest of Poseidōn. As one steer in a herd of cattle stands out, far above them all— the bull, distinguished among the cows assembled round it— such a one on that day Zeus rendered Atreus’s son, preeminent among many, of heroes the foremost.”

... again. nothing really? girthy??? eyes like zeus (nice)??? tall??? nothing about weight here babes.

CAROLINE ALEXANDER

there to go into combat, and with them was lord Agamemnon— his eyes and head like Zeus who hurls the thunderbolt, his girth like Ares, his chest like Poseidon’s. As when an ox stands out from all others in the herd, a bull who is preeminent among the gathered cattle, so did Zeus on that day render the son of Atreus conspicuous amid the multitude, outstanding among warriors.

pretty much the same?? gets called an 'ox' here though. ooooh

ROBERT FAGLES.

and there in the midst strode powerful Agamemnon, eyes and head like Zeus who loves the lightning, great in the girth like Ares, god of battles, broad through the chest like sea Lord Poseidon. Like a bull rising head and shoulders over the herds, a royal bull rearing over his flocks of driven cattle — so imposing was Atreus' son, so Zeus made him that day, towering over fighters, looming over armies.

just more girth stuff. that can mean his shoulders?? his chest?? his ass? bro we don't know. was aga just THICC. his cheeks always alerting the trojans???

ROBERT FITZGERALD.

Agamemnon's lordly mien was like the mien of Zeus whose joy is lightning; oalken-waisted as Ares, god of war, he seemed, and deep-chested as Lord Poseidon, and as a great bull in his majesty towers supreme amid a grazing herd, so on that dav Zeus made the son of Atreus tower over his host, supreme among them.

i like this one tbf. this one has got more meat on it. 'oaken waisted'. nice nice. again. i don't see oak trees are particullarly 'narrow' but hey. interpretation is what makes this field so great.

RICHARD LATTIMORE

“powerful Agamemnon, with eyes and head like Zeus who delights in thunder, like Ares for girth, and with the chest of Poseidon; like some ox of the herd pre-eminent among the others, a bull, who stands conspicuous in the huddling cattle; such was the son of Atreus as Zeus made him that day, conspicuous among men, and foremost among the fighters.”

STANLEY LOMBARDO

To enter battle, and Lord Agamemnon Moved among them like Zeus himself, The look in his eyes, the carriage of his head, With a torso like Ares', or like Poseidon's. Picture a bull that stands out from the herd Head and horns above the milling cattle— Zeus on that day made the son of Atreus A man who stood out from the crowd of heroes.

SEE this one we're not even talking about his LITERAL appearance but how he's holding himself. how he acts. his CONFIDENCE. cool take, stan. i like it.

STEPHEN MITCHELL

“and among them was Agamemnon, his splendid eyes and head like almighty Zeus’s, his thighs like the thighs of Ares, his chest like Poseidon’s. As a bull stands out in a herd above all the others, sovereign among the cows as they graze in a field: just so, on that day, did Lord Zeus make Agamemnon supreme over all the warriors massed before Troy.”

LOVE the thigh mention Mitchell. nice nice.

'The ancient text obviously wouldn't say "ripped" because that wasn't in their vocabulary. But they refer to him as everything else that such a body would imply.'

bro all i'm getting is the word 'girthy'?? if you want me to be a bitch about it, that's not a word i'd put with someone who is 'ripped'. if anything, they're implying he got junk in his trunk. i truly hand on heart. cannot see anything in the book 2 translations that imply or indicate to me that he does not have a tummy. that he is rocking a six pack. WHICH IS FINE. we can play with it and form our own opinions. but you're THIS IMPLIES .... is wrong??? it doesn't imply anything dude????

all we can infer from any of the book two stuff is that he's a man who is larger than the other men around him - literally? metaphorically? we dont know. (which is all horseshit anyway cause priam later goes on to say he's a short arse which is helpful). and that he shares qualities with the gods. again, literally? metaphorically? bit of both? we. don't. know.

TIME FOR BOOK 3. the priam and helen thirst.

PETER GREEN

“and to put a name for me to that huge warrior down there, that Achaian leader, of such stature and so strong: others there may be taller still by a head, and yet so fine a man have I never set eyes on, nor one so majestic in bearing—he looks to be of royal blood.” helen later calls him a 'strong spearman'

CAROLINE ALEXANDER

tell me the name of this gigantic man, who is this Achaean man, good and great? To be sure there are other men even greater in height, but I have never beheld with my eyes a man so handsome, nor so majestic; for he seems a kingly man. helen later calls him a 'powerful spear-warrior'

ROBERT FAGLES

“ tell me the name of that tremendous fighter. Look, who's that Achaean there, so stark and grand? Many others afield are much taller, true, but I have never yet set eyes on one so regal, so majestic . . . That man must be a king!” helen later calls him a 'strong spearman'

ROBERT FITZGERALD

Come, tell me who the big man is out there, who is that powerful figure? Other men are taller, but I never saw a soldier clean-cut as he, as royal in his bearing: he seems a kingly man. helen later calls his a 'formidable warrior'

RICHARD LATTIMORE

“You could tell me the name of this man who is so tremendous; who is this Achaian man of power and stature? Though in truth there are others taller by a head than he is, yet these eyes have never yet looked on a man so splendid nor so lordly as this: such a man might well be royal.” helen later calls him a 'strong spearfighter'

STANLEY LOMBARDO

Now tell me, who is that enormous man Towering over the Greek troops, handsome, Well-built? I've never laid eyes on such A fine figure of a man. He looks like a king. helen later calls him a 'strong warrior'

STEPHEN MITCHELL

“Tell me now, what is the name of that splendid man who is standing down there, so powerful and so tall. To be sure, there are other men who are even taller, but never before have I seen a man so majestic, so splendid in form and bearing. He must be a king.” helen later calls him a 'mighty soldier'

again. in all of these - nothing. all that's consistent is that he's not the tallest man at troy. which means ..... very little ASDFGHJK. there is Nothing concrete here. nothing that points us more one way than it does the other.

ultimately, dude, what we've got is.... nothing. nothing concrete. nothing definitive. i can't say you're wrong and you can't say i'm wrong.

i saw the phrase 'wine sack' and interpreted it my way and you saw it and interpreted it differently. but books 2 and 3 certainly don't back either of us up more definitively.

and in regards to his age. same thing. you can't say i'm wrong and i can't say you're wrong. but i've explained my reasonings for aga's age using sources HERE

idk man. if you're looking for an EXPLICITLY YOUNG CHISELED ABS LEGEND MALE CHARACTER. look elsewhere.

#yes this is the pettiest and the bitchiest thing i've ever done #and i completely respect if y'all can't stand me afterwards #but it's not lost on me that the .... 'fat headcanon' so it were is the one that gets people mad #ask yourself - why?#i literally just wanted to show that there is nothing definitive in the 'source material'#cause there's not. homer had bigger things to deal with in the iliad. fair enough lad #also random fact: i did a search for 'muscle' in all texts cause i was curious #and it's 99% of the time talking about thighs.#i like your style homer #long post under the cut. no im serious

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lewishamil10n · 2 years

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Do you ever think about how Valtteri and Lewis are polar opposites from each other, yet still like each other so much. Do you ever think about how they complement each other. Do you ever think about how they're literally like fire and ice and somehow still make it work.

Do you ever think about how Lewis can be challenge and excitement and glamor and goofiness for Valtteri and Valtteri can be honesty and rest and calmness and trust for Lewis.

Do you ever think about how not being teammates anymore has made them appreciate each other's presence even more and how they are actively seeking each other out, finding comfort and smiles in each other, without any expectations or conditions, how it's just easy and familar and good between them...

Just Valewis thoughts. 🥺❤️

anon sorry im late answering this it was lost in my inbox somewhere but. i showed this to @milflewis and @effervescentdragon and they immediately said SUN AND MOON PAIRING and. im about to go insane sorry not sorry.

u know after the entire shitshow that was the Nico Years TM and especially 2016, it was so obvious how tired lewis was. like not of racing, but of this entire teammate situation. gods sake his first ever teammate in the sport was fernando alonso there was no way that was ever going to go well. he got along well enough with heikki and jenson, but then he moved to mercedes, where his teammate was nico. and. well. the less said about that the better.

so by the time valtteri joined, i think lewis was sort of really wary about the whole thing. like if his childhood friend could do that to him over a championship, then how could he expect any better from anyone else? and it was probably smarter, in his head, to just not even try, really, to be anything other than professional. and then. and then there's valtteri, who'd gotten a couple of podiums with williams but nothing more, who's so desperate to prove himself and win. it would've been easy, i think, for him if he'd chosen to do what everyone else did. if he'd chosen to play games and be ruthless and do whatever it took. but he's not like that, he's not like that at all. he worked hard and he did his best and whatever he had to prove, he did on track.

u know that video in 2017 (i think?) when someone asked lewis if jenson was a better teammate or valtteri and he just said "i don't care" in this tired tone. and then that video at the end of 2017 when it's lewis n valtteri on that rooftop in abu dhabi talking. and lewis asks "were you ever really angry with me?" and valtteri says "yeah. when you beat me" and there's this moment. lewis just kind of goes still. and you can tell that he's instantly on edge because. this is exactly the sort of thing that ruined his relationships with prev teammates. they couldn't stand that he was better, than he won. and there was this moment, like. is valtteri going to be like that too? is this just another reiteration of that same old dynamic? and then valtteri clarifies "at video games" and lewis just kind of. relaxes. laughs it off. but that moment is THERE. and it just sort of goes to show where lewis's head was at in 2017 re: teammates.

and then they just sort of grew on each other? somehow? because valtteri never tried to play any games. when he saw lewis winning, when he wanted to compete, he didn't want to do it by dirty tricks or psychological warfare. he wanted to do it by being a better driver. and he did beat lewis a few times! but it never went sour between them. i know everyone likes to call valtteri a pushover (and other much more unkind terms) but i really don't think he is. if you listen to his episode on the beyond the grid podcast it really gives you some insight into his mentality, into how he approaches racing and who he is as a person. and it really struck me how unique his mindset is. he comes across as one of the only people on the grid who is content with who he is and where he's at. yes of course they're all competitive. every person on that grid is there to try to win. but val is one of the few that puts the team first. he's said as much in the podcast. he knew what the environment at merc was like when he joined. he knew that the last thing they needed was another such rivalry, another person causing problems. and yes, toto had his ways of ensuring valtteri would not try to challenge lewis too much (the one year contracts, for instance). and valtteri is well within his rights to be bitter about it. god we're all well aware of the "valtteri it's james" jokes. his anger and frustration over that is absolutely justifiable and no one would blame him if he hated merc/toto/lewis. but he genuinely does not seem like he does. he's still on such good terms with lewis (and even toto). they still travel together and hang out. because for him, it was about the team, and that never affected his relationship with lewis, even after he left.

sorry that sort of became a love letter to valtteri MOVING ON TO YOUR ASK

i fucking love their dynamic. like i FUCKING. LOVE IT. on the surface they seem like they have barely anything in common. lewis is this bright, bold guy, all sunshine and smiles, and val is so much more introverted, kinda lowkey. their personalities are so different, their approach to racing is so different. but somehow it WORKS. have you seen how fucking FOND valtteri looks when he's looking at lewis or talking to him. like come on. literally the fucking heart eyes emoji. like come on WHAT IS THAT. and lewis is just as bad!!! god how does one even survive having lewis hamilton smile at them like that! and! the look on valtteri's face when he hears lewis singing! please!!! i'm going to scream.

[insert montage of them being... Like That]

(via merc insta, they look like literal personification of the sun n moon here)

(via @wejustvibing (first pic) and @vro0m (second pic))

(from this photoset by @electric-arc)

(can't remember the source of this pic sorry it's from my camera roll)

(this entire photoset by @effervescentdragon)

(via @l8tof1)

(via @gianniisantetokounmpo)

and like. the way valtteri can make lewis laugh. the way he's automatically smiling and laughing too, when he's with lewis. the banter. the way lewis is so comfortable with valtteri in his personal space. the way he squeezes into valtteri's. the casual touching! god there's like five years of just watching them get closer and closer, until "i don't care" becomes "he's the best teammate in the sport" and "you're greater than you know" and "for the first time i had a teammate with whom i really communicated ... without hiding anything from each other" and just. i'm going a little insane okay. do you know how BIG that is. lewis finally having a teammate he could trust NOT to stab him in the back. "he wants to win on his own merit, not by playing games, not by winning the team over" and this is 2017! right after nico! who famously played mind games and was manipulative and who divided the team. who did anything and everything he could to win, and didn't care that that meant actively screwing his childhood best friend over. and then there's valtteri! who's not just lewis's favorite teammate but "the best teammate in the sport" like ever! EVER! 70 yrs of rivalries and teammates and as far as lewis is concerned, there's no one better than valtteri viktor bottas. that's a whole ass fucking love letter in this sport!!!!!

its the love. the fucking acceptance. valtteri telling lewis he's the better driver. admitting it was hard for him to accept. lewis telling valtteri "you're greater than you know" ON MAIN. do you know how insane that quote makes me. do you!!! valtteri saying "when i can't win the title, i want lewis to win it" and "it felt like i was the one who lost" after ad21. checking in with lewis after it all. the way they ran to each other when they saw each other in the beginning of this season. so many people tried to get valtteri to slander lewis and merc and valtteri didn't give them a single fucking crumb. nothing but repetition of how much he respects lewis and how fucking good lewis is. the way they still seek each other out! the silly little insta exchanges! "valtteri didn't look too worried" "i just knew you'd be okay" and "never stop dancing mate" and god. the whole thing in monaco. what the FUCK. lewis called val's nude "the best picture i've seen" and val just. straight up gave him a print. framed. IN FRONT OF THE WORLD. "not that i don't have enough things to remember you by" LEWIS. also. don't think i don't remember how when the interviewer asked lewis if he'd seen the naked pic of val, lewis went "oh is that the one with me in it?" um. excuse me? EXCUUUUUUUUUUSE ME?

(i could write essays abt monaco 22 but i'll try to keep it short this is already becoming quite long.)

(OH also the sequel to monaco 22, aka singapore 22. only good thing abt this weekend was lewis saying he's got val's nude in his home, guanyu saying he wouldn't do that he'd put it somewhere private, and val being like "next time i could do a flipped one" like ok. ok val. offer him dick pics on main. Normal. i cannot believe these are real events that really occurred in real life.)

look. at the end of the day it's about the mutual love and respect. it's about a professional relationship becoming "best duo in the sport." it's about THAT progressing into close friendship. nico can go on and on as much as he likes about how he still Knows and Understands lewis but valtteri is the one that actually does. he doesn't need to keep harping on about lewis to prove he knows him; he just does. he knows how to make lewis laugh and how to approach him when he's angry or tired or upset. he knows without having to ask what lewis is thinking, what he's feeling. they may not be teammates anymore but they're "still mates." they look for each other and are always so fucking happy to be with each other, and they travel together whenever they can. pls every other team on the grid WISHES they had what lewis and valtteri do. dream team for sure. god i could go on and on about them i love them and their relationship SO. FUCKING. MUCH!!!

ok im done now. until someone else comes along and sets me off.

#asks #anonymous #valtteri bottas #lewis hamilton #valewis #f1 #long post #(under the cut)#sorry i went a little batshit anon. but in my defense. how was i supposed to react? u know i cant ever shut up abt valewis #and yes theres links n sources. im fucking ACADEMIC abt this ok

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