#spike as buffy’s narrative foil | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

deeply-unserious-fellow · 5 days

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No okay bcuz actually I DO want to explain my thoughts from this post here because I love analyzing things and I think talking abt Vox's relationships thru the lens of "this is just like Buffy fr fr" could be fun :)

FIRST OFF: VoxVal as Spike & Drusilla. I do not know their ship name and tbh I'm probably never gonna talk about them again so whooooo cares. To state the obvious, in this situation Vox is Spike and Val is Dru. Now, it's been awhile since I've watched Buffy, but from what I remember, Spike & Drusilla really are THE toxic villain couple, in that they're both like. Not very good to or for eachother, all things considered, but goddamnit they love eachother SO MUCH- which really is the generous interpretation of Staticmoth. I'm not gonna go super in depth into the fucking. Is Staticmoth abusive debate rn. Because I have one million other posts that make my stance on that pretty clear I think. But the uh... nicer interpretation of their relationship is very much Spike & Drusilla I think. Like right down to the headcannon of Vox liking how Val's shit eyesight & temper tantrums makes him kind of dependent on him. Again, could be misremembering, but based off of how Spike was w/ Dru while she was weakened(and based off of how he rebounded w/ Harmony of all people 💀), I get the distinct vibe that, despite his frustrations, Spike did like having somebody relying on him the way Dru(and later Harmony) did. Vox def seems like the type of guy that would get a kick out of feeling Needed and Relied On(why else would he literally route the entire Pride rings power grid through himself-), and Valentino is. Well. Valentino. I'm not gonna go over their interaction before Stayed Gone because it makes me ~genuinely uncomfortable~ for reasons I have, once again, gone into in depth before, but suffice it to say that it's definitely in character for Vox to be into Val relying on him like that. Oh also, like somebody pointed out in the reblogs on the original post, the reason Spike & Dru broke up from s3 all the way to their reunion in s5 is that she cheated on him and that's. Yeah that sounds about right.

And second, the Staticradio twins: Spuffy and Spangel. Why the fuck did I call them the Staticradio twins? I don't know I'm tired as shit and just used most of my brain power on the VoxVal segment now get off my back- anyways, these two are actually pretty easy to explain so I'll just get right into it! Most of the similarities between Staticradio and Spuffy can really be summed up in the song Reat In Peace from Buffy's musical episode. One-sided, obsessive crush on someone who you know deep down will probably never reciprocate. You want them to just leave you the fuck alone and stay gone(hahahahahahahahah), but they just. Aren't. Like even the bits about being a dead guy without a heart beat are spot on because Vox is a motherfuckin DEMON who is a ROBOT!!!!!!! Also the Alastor Body Pillow fanon(which IS fanon. It is. I'm sorry to say but that wasn't a thing on the Instagrams y'all-) does line up with the uh. The Buffy sex bot- it does line up with the Buffy sex bot. Anyways moving on to the Spangel section-

"You were my sire man!" - Spike, to Angel, in his introduction episode. I don't remember if this was retconned in season 5(or 6?) to be Dru siring Spike? It might've been. But for the sake of this post lets pretend it wasn't. Angel was basically Spike's mentor for a lot of their time together pre-show. They ran around in their weird little vampire polycule causing problems for everyone and life was good! Then Angel got cursed. Bro got a soul and then ran away for years without a word to anyone. Then, cut to current day, and Spike is hyped to see him right up to the point he realizes Angel has Changed. And from that point onward to two are RIVALS!!!!! Narrative foils, even. And while it isn't exactly the same as Alastor and Vox's history, it's pretty damn similar right!? Al was(presumably) Vox's friend and mentor for YEARS, like to the point of being comfortable taking a picture with him. Then something happens between them, causing a rivalry to form. Throw somewhere in the mix Al's deal & him fucking off for 7 years... it's like the same pieces being put together in a new way to make a different puzzle. Is Rosie Darla in this analogy? Unclear. Val is still Dru though. Do y'all get where I'm coming from? It's far, FAR from the same thing, like there are so many fucking differences and that's just going off of the stuff we DO know(I want to know more god I can't wait for season 2-), but the dynamics ARE similar. They're narrative foils with a deep history w/ eachother where they were probably-definitely friends, something caused them to become RIVALS, and also one of them is cursed and dissappeared for several years-

Whoo boy this got kinda incoherent- Anyways, that brings me to my brand new fun and interesting point: Vox and Spike are kinda similar characters. They're both antagonists who wanna be Big Tough Scary guys so bad, and like. They are. They are big tough AND scary. Sometimes. But for the vast majority of their screen time, their emotions, capacity for love(no matter how twisted their version of love is), and the consequences of that love going wrong continually get the better of them and cause them to look to us, the audience, like silly pathetic wet cats we found on the side of the road. Then they get Weird about it(Vox's "rivalry" w/ Angel and the. Buffy sex bot.) and we remember oh yeah this guy is EVIL! They also both wear long jackets and are bisexual :)

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vampirologist · 1 year

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always see posts talking about cordelia, faith, and spike being foils or shadows of buffy yet angel is never included despite he and buffy probably being the most similar characters in the buffyverse narratively

#both have distinct ‘before’ and ‘after’ periods of their life #disillusioned with their circumstances and wanted to strive towards normalcy until eventually accepting themselves #are leaders who help others and have greatly influenced others #they became paternal figures which emphasized the need for money #and tested what they would be willing to give up for their family #and sooo much more #there’s a reason WHY they were drawn to each other!

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spangelmybeloved · 3 months

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I just love Spike and Riley and as a ship. Like. The parallels, both of them being Walsh's test subjects and having serious impact to their lives because of it, their relationships with Buffy, they're narrative foils... I just love Spike/Riley.

Plus, homoerotic staking scene.

#spike x riley #btvs #spike btvs #riley finn #riley btvs

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chasingfictions · 1 year

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I posted 15,696 times in 2022

That's 3,009 more posts than 2021!

1,893 posts created (12%)

13,803 posts reblogged (88%)

Blogs I reblogged the most:

@marinxttes

@spikedru

@chasingfictions

@bebidocrimes

@smellingwormholes

I tagged 10,266 of my posts in 2022

Only 35% of my posts had no tags

#btvs rewatch - 761 posts

#ask - 333 posts

#<3 - 247 posts

#btvs meta - 247 posts

#yellowjackets - 147 posts

#btvs script - 105 posts

#hi - 102 posts

#prev - 94 posts

#so true - 88 posts

#yeah - 70 posts

Longest Tag: 82 characters

#🫡🫡🫡🫡🫣🫣🫣🫣🫣🥹🥹🥹🙃🙃🥺😳😳😤😤😤😤🤫🤔🤔🤔🫣🫣🫠🫠🫠🫠🤭🤭🤭😶🫥😬😬😬😬😬

My Top Posts in 2022:

will never stop being emo about how Buffy’s relationship, structurally, to her shadow selves and narrative foils shifts entirely after s2. the way that compared to Cordelia and Kendra she’s the freak and the wild one and the loose canon and then compared to Faith and Spike she’s the conservative and repressed and careful one and thinking about how her entire emotional landscape is forever altered by the angelus trauma and the loss of kendra, how she never gets to be that young and untroubled again :)))))))) and I feel FINE about it why do you ask :))))))) thinking abt how by mid series she’s so far away from being integrated with her own innocence that her innocence now lives in an externalized figure, dawn :)))))))) thinking about how there’s something about how buffy dying and returning in the s1 finale gives her this buoyancy, this power, this strength, this ultimate final girl narrative energy, and then her finding kendra’s dead body in the s2 finale is this narrative mirror to that. because that’s her, that’s a part of her, that’s not the only freak / not any more and how can you look at someone who is a part of you, dead on the ground in the same library where you gloated over the master’s bones, and not go a little bit hard inside, not curl up and retract and try to protect yourself because it’s not safe otherwise ….

631 notes - Posted January 14, 2022

it’s never too late to achieve your dreams. spike btvs died a virgin at age 27 and went on to become one of the sluttiest vampires of all time <3 dream big <3

734 notes - Posted February 25, 2022

i love her so much i love them so much i love them so much i love her so much

1,696 notes - Posted August 19, 2022

when the girlies are really eating it up

13,181 notes - Posted April 1, 2022

My #1 post of 2022

ideal ship dynamic

61,875 notes - Posted April 4, 2022

Get your Tumblr 2022 Year in Review →

…., vibes insane in here ……

#<3 #Tumblr said hey you LOOOOVE it when becca and Mary and hk talk on tumblr dot com and I said SO TRUE YES I DO

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5bi5 · 2 years

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Alright let's talk about forehead kissing in media.

Weirdly, forehead kisses can mean super different things depending on the context and the type of relationship between the characters involved – and unlike regular kissing, it can happen in almost any type of character relationship. To keep things simple, let's break it down into four: romantic, antagonistic, familial, and platonic.

In a romantic relationship, forehead kissing can be a common thing that isn't necessarily that significant; many or most romantic relationships include a lot of physical affection, including all types of kissing. Forehead kissing in a romantic relationship is typically comforting, protective, or sweet, but not sensual or passionate like a kiss on the lips might be.

While in a romantic relationship, forehead kissing may seem casual, in most other types of relationships where physical affection (especially to the face/mouth) isn't as common, it might seem fairly intimate, and therefore more significant. In an antagonistic relationship, it might happen between two characters who are foils for each other, or who were once friends and therefore know each other very well. Kissing your enemy means being vulnerable, both emotionally and physically, towards someone you really shouldn't be vulnerable towards – so there's a good chance you might do it while they're also vulnerable, potentially because you've made them that way by besting them, or by revealing some piece of information about their true self.

Take, for example, the two forehead kisses between Buffy and Faith in season three. First, Faith kisses Buffy after explaining that she knows Buffy won't kill her – Buffy isn't ready to cross that line, unlike Faith, who already has. In that moment, Faith calls to attention how similar they are; how Faith acts in the narrative as a shadow self to Buffy, a darker version of her, but a version that Buffy could (and will) become under the right circumstances. While Buffy is vulnerable from this revelation, and unsure what to do since Faith is right – Buffy isn't going to kill her – Faith kisses her on the forehead (yes, this was originally supposed to be on the lips, but it isn't, so we'll ignore that for now) before running away.

Then, a few episodes later, Buffy does cross that line – she attempts, albeit unsuccessfully, to kill Faith, instead putting her in a coma. Buffy then visits Faith in the hospital, where she is now at her most vulnerable (literally unconscious and unable to fight back). Instead of killing her, Buffy, now having symbolically become the same as Faith, returns her forehead kiss.

The forehead kisses here are tonally very different – Faith kissing Buffy is a charged moment, with both sexual tension and regular old tension, while Buffy kissing Faith is sweet and almost familial – but both are intimate moments that show how much Buffy and Faith care about each other, and how well they know each other – because they are two sides of the same coin.

In a familial relationship, forehead kissing typically comes from an adult or older figure to a child, and is generally protective and caring. It means, I'll watch out for you, or sometimes, I'm proud of you. A parent may kiss the head or forehead of a child who has just hit some milestone, or to comfort them while they're upset.

Here's another forehead kiss from Buffy, between Xander and Dawn. They're not technically related, but Xander may as well be family to Dawn – like Willow, Tara, and Spike, he helps take care of her after the death of Joyce and then Buffy herself. In this moment, Xander has just told Dawn that he sees her hard work, and how difficult it is to be an ordinary person on a team of superheroes. He sees her, he's proud of her, and he wants her to be proud of herself, even if she's not getting the sort of attention she feels the others are getting.

In a platonic relationship, forehead kissing is usually reserved for particularly emotional moments, like if one character is facing potential death, or has just gone through a traumatic experience. It can also signal that two characters may have romantic feelings for each other, but it's too early in their arcs for them to properly kiss – they may not even be aware of their own feelings. A forehead kiss between friends shows that they are very close; they love each other, whether platonically or romantically.

There are tons of forehead kisses between Mulder and Scully on The X Files before they actually get together, most commonly when one of them is sick or hurt (like during Scully's cancer storyline), when one of them is grieving, or when they have just evaded some sort of mortal peril. Scully, who is very professional and dislikes being vulnerable, and Mulder, who has few close relationships and is used to people laughing at or insulting him when he opens up to them, are able to be close to each other in a way neither of them can be with anyone else. They're also clearly harbouring romantic feelings for each other that they either don't want to admit, or possibly aren't even conscious of.

With all that in mind, let's look at the forehead kiss in Succession (Yes, this is a Succession post. Sorry if you got this far and didn't actually want to read about Succession). This moment was improvised, and therefore probably doesn't hold a lot of symbolic or thematic significance, but it still made it into the show, so we're going to analyze it anyways.

Theoretically the first thing we need to know to approach this is what Tom and Greg's relationship is. Unfortunately, they're sort of all of the above; they have a close, but vitriolic, friendship, they're in-laws, and it's easy to argue that Tom is carrying a torch for Greg. Since they're not actually romantically involved, however, we can ignore that category.

If we look at Tom and Greg as antagonistic, we should view them as foils for each other. They're both outsiders, both awkward, both on the receiving end of a lot of abuse from the Roys but still wholly dependent on them, and both seem redeemable – but getting less so as the show progresses. The conflict between Tom and Greg (and internally for both of them) is fitting in with the Roy family – and therefore being rich and successful – versus being good people who are true to themselves. The way Tom acts towards Greg is in accordance with the culture at Waystar (needlessly aggressive, peacockish, and confusing, with a healthy dose of gay bravado), while Greg initially tries to be polite, stick to his "principles", and pursue a job and a romantic relationship that he can actually feel good about. When Greg does something corrupt or forward (in short, something Roy-ish), his relationship with Tom becomes more harmonious. When he tries to do something for himself, like pursuing a girlfriend, spending time with his grandpa, or trying to leave ATN, Tom becomes angry and insults or attacks him. In this moment, Greg isn't really doing much of anything. However, Tom has just learned that they won't be going to jail, identifying them as the "Waystar two" – a united front, and part of one of their more Roy-like plotlines.

If we look at them as familial, we might consider that Tom is protective or proud of Greg. Tom promises to "look after" Greg in the second episode of the series, and continues to act on this promise throughout all three seasons, even agreeing to take the blame for Greg's misdeeds so he wouldn't have to go to jail. At the moment of the kiss, he has just learned that they are both safe – and that he will be able to continue protecting Greg, as he'll do in the season finale.

If we look at them as platonic, we can see that they're closer with each other than anyone else. Tom sneaks out of a celebration with his wife, father-in-law, and coworkers to go tell Greg the news privately. While he acted relatively non-plussed about the news in front of Shiv, once he gets to Greg's office he expresses his feelings in a downright unhinged way, screaming, beating his chest, and flipping a desk, before calming down and kissing Greg. Tom's actions are not composed or calculated; he is acting on pure emotion, in a way that he doesn't feel comfortable doing with any other character on the show. Greg isn't even included in the intial celebration, and doesn't have much in the way of alliances at Waystar outside of Tom.

We also might consider that one or both of them is harbouring romantic feelings. In the larger season arc between Tom and Greg, Tom has told Greg he would marry him, snuck out of bed to spend time with him, and will go on to get upset when Greg talks about his romantic relationships (but won't explain why), and to propose a figurative "marriage" to Greg by addressing him as Sporus and asking if Greg wants to "come with him" in the last episode. While Tom may or may not actually view Greg as a romantic prospect, he does want to be the most important person in Greg's life, and views them as partners – perhaps moreso than with his own wife.

#tw cancer #tw parental death #buffy #btvs #buffy the vampire slayer #pride & prejudice #the x files #txf #succession #tomgreg

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impalementation · 2 years

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Hey, firstly I really want to thank you for the buffy analysis you're providing. I'm just now emerging into the world of writing and am utterly humbled by your comprehensive media analysis skills. I'm really curious how you got there. My question is related to s5 and its dichotomy of self. If Dawn is supposed to represent Buffy's inner child or human aspect of her personality, then is it fair to say that Glory represents Buffy's slayer identity and consequently her shadow in particular? I recognise that they, for the most part, have a foiling relationship in the narrative, but Glory's interactions with Buffy have always seemed a little "shadowy", obviously not in the same way as Faith and Spike, both of whom actively tried to bring out parts of Buffy she tried to conceal, but more in alluding to Dawn(human side) as Buffy's vulnerability I.e. the thing that stops her from being as strong as Glory way, if that makes any sense. The visual resemblance between the two really drove it home for me as intended mirroring. I could totally be misunderstanding the concept of the shadow, so forgive me if this is a stupid question.

Thank you!! Honestly, and not to be glib, I just got here with the usual combination of time, practice, and passion for the subject. I started reading and writing media analysis at a young age and never stopped. I also don't want to overstate my authority or anything. I'm often wrong or uninformed. I miss things all the time. I appreciate that people respect my arguments and opinions but I also hope that they're taken as interpretations to either be persuaded by or not, rather than as a definitive statement of ultimate truth or anything. While I take my writing seriously, it’s still something that I’m mostly doing for fun (or more like, because I can’t help myself). It’s riffing I’m doing to try to figure out this thing I like so much, and it makes me nervous when stuff I wasn’t making an effort to properly argue for is taken too authoritatively.

Anyway, not to barf my anxieties all over your ask. Hell yeah the season five dichotomy of self. I actually agree completely that Glory is associated with the shadow side of Buffy, but I also want to be careful about what I mean by that. People often seem to mis-use the concept of the shadow (no doubt I’ve misused it myself, since it’s only in the last year that I’ve actually begun the work to understand Jung properly), when what I think they’re actually looking for is the concept of a foil. You already seem to understand what a foil is, but for anyone else: A foil is a character that has things in common with another character, but then diverges in a way that illuminates the other character's traits. So Kendra in season two is a foil for Buffy, because both of them are Slayers--they have that point of commonality--but they react to being the Slayer in different ways. Which highlights Buffy's traits like rebelliousness and independence. In general, the villains of each season always tend to be foils for Buffy. The Trio in season six are foils for Buffy and the Scoobies for example, because like them, they are young people new to adulthood and struggling to grow up. But while Buffy and the Scoobies ultimately choose to do the hard work of growing up even though it’s painful and relentless, the Trio cheats with things like crime and violence.

So, Glory in season five is a foil for Buffy because she is a superpowered being who feels that her human half, Ben, is a weakness. Ben is similarly a foil for Buffy because he is a human being who feels that his superpowered half controls and has destroyed his life. Together, they represent Buffy’s dichotomy of self that you’ve already pointed out. Throughout season five, Buffy feels weak in the face of human problems like a boyfriend who leaves her or a mom who gets sick. Moreover--as you’ve said--Dawn, who is her human, child, self is Buffy’s point of vulnerability all season. She is seemingly what makes Buffy weak, because Dawn can’t protect herself. On the flipside however, her superpowered half is also what makes Buffy afraid that she is cold and disconnected from her humanity. The two halves are seemingly incompatible, and seemingly destroying the other half.

So one of the reasons I say that Glory is associated with the shadow side of Buffy is that Buffy’s shadow side is frequently associated with the supernatural, especially in season five. In my videos I’ve discussed how the Hellmouth can be seen as metaphor for the unconscious in general. It is this gaping wound beneath the town, that everyone ignores, and which specifically attracts supernatural beings. I also discuss in more depth in episode two how vampires are presented as “other” early on, representing the way that Buffy sees the shadow side of herself as “other” at that point in the show. In other words, vampires and the supernatural are associated with the shadow firstly because they’re associated with the unconscious, and secondly because they are an element of the unconscious that Buffy rejects. Vampires are scary, soulless monsters. How could you be a vampire?

Over the course of the show, Buffy’s primary shadow self becomes steadily more monstrous--first Cordelia, then Faith, then Spike--as she delves deeper and deeper into her unconscious. One of the reasons I think season five is so marked by the dichotomy of self is because it is the season in which Buffy begins to truly address the shadow part of herself, which means that the shadow becomes markedly opposed to her humanity. The fact that it seems villainous and incompatible with her Self becomes explicit, a problem that is now on the surface. I see Glory as linked to Dracula in the first episode, who taunts Buffy with her dark side and tricks her mother and Xander (both associated with Buffy’s humanity), or Harmony in the second episode, who is also blonde and “bitchy” and kidnaps Dawn just as Glory will kidnap her. I think it’s purposeful that Buffy describes Glory as “kinda like Cordelia, actually” and Glory has a bath scene that parallels Faith’s in “Who Are You?” There’s also the fact that Buffy is shown irritated by Glory being a “super-strong little women who [isn’t] me” (the line is in reference to April but clearly includes Glory), and by the suggestion that Glory could be “prettier” than her, which is similar to Buffy’s feelings of rivalry with Faith.

Of course, the point is ultimately that Buffy’s shadow is not incompatible with her humanity, and this is why I see Spike as Buffy’s true shadow-self--instead of merely associated with Buffy’s shadow side, as Glory is. Unlike Glory, who threatens Buffy’s humanity, aka Dawn, Spike actively safeguards it. Like Buffy and Glory/Ben, Spike has a dichotomy between monstrousness and humanity. But unlike Glory/Ben he is eventually able to achieve that same thing that Buffy does: a mix. Like Harmony and Dracula he is a vampire, and therefore aligned with the scary supernatural “other” shadow. But unlike them, and like Buffy, he comes to protect Dawn out of love. In other words, while Glory might represent Buffy’s fear or perception of her shadow, Spike is the character that actually represents Buffy herself. He is her actual, personal shadow, which is why Buffy needs to integrate with him and not with Glory. This won’t happen completely until the end of season seven, but does happen in a partial form in “The Gift” by her choosing to let him into her house. Ie, into her Self, given how Buffy’s house (as I bang on constantly in my videos) is the the recurring symbol of Buffy’s Self.

In general, I’d say that although Buffy’s main antagonists each season may be foils for her, they do also seem to be associated with Buffy’s shadow side too, the way that Glory is. Even if Glory, as you mention, is particularly “shadowy” because of her similarity to Buffy’s previous shadow-selves, and because season five is particularly concerned with Buffy’s inner dichotomy. Buffy’s villains all represent some negative way of solving a problem that Buffy is struggling with. People often use the term “shadow” in a narrative sense rather than Jungian sense to refer to a negative foil this way. But in the Jungian sense, you could also say that they represent a path that Buffy is tempted by, and is afraid she could go down (a side she might go down if she doesn’t confront it, ie if it remains unconscious). Therefore it’s a side that Buffy thinks she has to repress or reject when she encounters it in herself--hence her antagonistic relationship with her more personal shadow self figures.

#s5 #buffy #glory #there is also stuff to say about the personal vs the collective shadow #and how glory and other villains--especially vampires--are aligned with the collective shadow #but this response was long enough

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bluesadansey · 2 years

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btvs + tvd for the ship meme!

Btvs

otp: Spuffy & Fuffy. & Coffy. in that order tbh but I do adore them all favourite canon pairing: Spuffy. other than them I’m only really into Sprusilla and primarily s5 Willara worst pairing ever: I mean it’s Buffy/Giles obviously people who ship that are freaks. but otherwise anything involving Xander (usually I can like ships even if I dislike a character in them if there’s merit to a dynamic imo but here I can not somehow I just … hate him so much lol). Any canon ship that isn’t the three I just mentioned mostly isn’t for me guilty pleasure pairing: I don’t really have one, also I never quite know what this is supposed to mean and most of my ships for this verse aren’t like, healthy. but Willow x Amy would be like another level of toxic even by Buffyverse standards and I do find the idea kind of fun, although I never sought content for it. and the rare time I’ve seen a Buffy x Drusilla post I’ve been like ! a pairing you want to see more: Buffy x Tara & Buffy x Kendra & Faith x Willow & Willow x Anya all those ships are great, especially Faith x Willow which I’m a vocal advocate for. Oh and Cordelia x Anya would’ve been rad that pairing everyone likes but you’re like “lol no”: Bangel but I used to notp it and now I do respect it a lot more for it’s place in Buffy’s narrative and see some merit in it, but it’s still really not my cup of tea romantically. I don’t hate hate it anymore but still. favorite non-romantic pair: Buffy & Dawn + Tara & Dawn the absolute best! Buffy & Giles. also Buffy and Willow but them I do occasionally like romantically (mostly I like the thought of them having crushes on each other in s3 and then growing out of them, but post Alyson Hannigan talking about them dating in S7 I do sometimes find the idea a little fun too). But like primarily I love their friendship. I also just sort of love Tara’s dynamics with all the Scoobies. Spike and Dawn even if reading some things about James and Michelle has made me feel worse about this but I did love their written dynamic. they don’t get too many scenes one on one but I love Spike and Willow when they’re together, also as foils.

TVD otp: Bamon & Beklena. favourite canon pairing: Steroline & Stebekah. worst pairing ever: Caroline x Alaric seems really obvious as the worst one. DE & SE I think I’ve had a stronger negative reaction to DE in the past because it’s a) a ship that I expected to like when I first watched but didn’t which is never fun and b) because it took up so much narrative space in the later seasons, whereas SE mostly just bored me. now I have a more eyeroll-y reaction to both with distance that isn’t full on hatred per se. I could not stand Matt x Caroline. I know in the grand scheme of TVDu ships it’s not like that insidious but it grated on me a lot guilty pleasure pairing: I guess Katholine would be this I really loved them tbh, also Klaroline and Steferine. and Datherine I don’t think about them as much but I enjoy them together. a pairing you want to see more: Beklena & Bonora & Katholine. also Kennett had a lot of potential that pairing everyone likes but you’re like “lol no”: Delena & Stelena favorite non-romantic pair: Elena and Katherine !!! my favorite dynamic on the show. I tried to think of a more traditionally positive friend/family dynamic that would qualify but honestly idk. I like Barolena dynamics sometimes but how I feel about each one sort of … varies depending on the day as does if I ship any of them romantically. the closest I can think of otherwise is Elena and Jenna rip

I obviously did not include Ats/TO ships like Cangel and Klayley in this

thank you so much! <3

(send me a fandom and I’ll answer questions for ships)

#ask games #btvs #TVD #s speaks #mutuals #hizziemikaelson

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sunnydaleherald · 2 years

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The Sunnydale Herald Newsletter, Saturday, January 15th

FRED: Hi, Lorne. LORNE: Hi. What do you say we put away your little sci-fi toys for a little bit, huh? And maybe we could talk about something a little more important, like my monster mash? FRED: Oh, yeah, your party. LORNE: Our party, tweety bird. Which, by the way, is dying on the vine. I could really, really, really use some help from you guys— some backup? FRED: I wasn't really planning on going. LORNE: Wes. Do you hear this crazy talk? WESLEY: Uh, well, I really hadn't given much thought to going myself. LORNE: Et tu, Brutuses? Why is it so hard to get anyone to have any fun around here?

~~Life of the Party~~

The Sunnydale Herald is looking for at least one new editor! Contributing to the Herald is a great way to get your Buffy on! Find out more here.

[Drabbles & Short Fiction]

Fever Dream, Chapters 1-2 (Buffy/Angel, M) by Janis70

Beloved (OC, Black Widow crossover, T) by Vashti (tvashti)

your bed is a confession booth (Giles/Oz, M) by Gilesbian (jackandthesoulmates)

Aurora's Diary (OC "Aurora Dawn Summers", T) by fatalfae

Something Old, Something New (Buffy/Spike, PG-13) by madamcreature

[Chaptered Fiction]

Jojo's Bizarre Adventure: Shadowed Suspicion, Chapter 228 (Ensemble, Jojo's Bizarre Adventure crossover, T) by madimpossibledreamer

Honest, Chapter 4 (complete!) (Buffy/Tara, M) by Stranger_In_Town

The path to redemption, Chapter 94 (Scoobies, T) by Aragorn_II_Elessar

Yvette, the Vampire Slayer - Arc 2, Chapter 36 (OC Slayer, Castlevania crossover, G) by TheSovereigntyofReality

You Can't Fight Fate - But You Can Decipher Him, Chapter 31 (Dawn, Batman crossover, not rated) by Hermione2be

After Buffy Left, Chapter 5 (Dawn, not rated, warnings: Rape/Non-Con Underage) by Violet_valentine

A new Quest, a new Fellowship, Chapter 7 (Ensemble, Tolkien crossover, T) by Aragorn_II_Elessar

Healthier Choices, Chapter 4 (complete!) (Faith, The Haunting of Hill House crossover, not rated) by BuffyBot3000

Who we are [roleplay], Chapter 3 (Giles/Oz, E) by Gilesbian (jackandthesoulmates), jackandthesoulmates

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Come Back to Me, Chapter 14 (Buffy/Spike, NC-17) by honeygirl51885

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[Reviews & Recaps]

Rewatching Buffy the Vampire Slayer by ashesandhackles

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[Recs/search]

Vid rec: Lilah & Wesley: No Life After You by WelcomeToCaritas [Liv] recced by gothamstreetcat

Fic search: Bangelus enemies to lovers fic by messybunbeauty

Fic rec: Comics!Fic: Picture Perfect by gryfndor-godess (Buffy/Spike, PG-13) recced by Joan the Vampire Slayer

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[Community Announcements]

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[Fandom Discussions]

Snowflake Challenge 2022: Day 7 (tell us about 3 fandom resources, spaces, or communities you use or enjoy) by sparrow2000

Snowflake Challenge 2022: Day 8 (celebrate a personal win from the past year) by sparrow2000

How Buffy’s relationship to her shadow selves and narrative foils shifts entirely after s2 by chasingfictions

[Buffy, Kendra and Faith's names] by chasingfictions

[Willow and Tara's first fight] by girl4music

Finally watching Lineage and my heart breaks for Wesley by gothamstreetcat

Anya and Buffy should’ve been friends by house-monster-fucker

Another reason why Angel is bisexual by oveliagirlhaditright

[Buffy's eyes being golden in Primeval] by oveliagirlhaditright

How Angel was around visions before Doyle and Cordelia by oveliagirlhaditright

What makes the LEAST sense about the ‘Is Giles the First?’ pointless subplot by rachaeljurassic

A way to change up the S2 storyline to make Angelus into the villain he was supposed to be by theleafpile

New fanfic discussions - Seven Year Slayer and The Price is Right by Dutchbuffy2305 by flow

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SMG deserved a producer's credit/input by CatofKipling

The Economics of Sunnydale by ErrForceOnes

My first time [watching Buffy] by maplestriker

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Restless by dabzandjabz

Why did Angel change his name to Angel/Angelus? by timmorris82

Which character best embodies the show's philosophy? by Individual_Syrup_848

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Question about Tara’s death by cherrycranberries

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#btvs #buffy the vampire slayer #ats #angel the series

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yoursummerfrost · 3 years

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Do you any thoughts about spike/xander or spike paired with other main male characters in the show?

I kept telling myself I would have Thoughts for you but I think I might just have thoughts? Let's find out!

I vibe with pretty much any Spike/Other Adult Character pairings because a) Marsters could have chemistry with a lamp and b) Spike's mere existence manages to destabilize pretty much anyone he's in a room with which is just delicious for fic.

My fave mlm pairing involving Spike is definitely Spike/Giles because I think they should be grumpy British old guys together and also because they have some delicious narrative foils stuff going on. Spike and Ripper both affecting ~lower class accents? The way Buffy wants Giles to be her father but he's always pushing her away and Spike wants Buffy to be in love with him but she's always pushing him away?? Oh and because Giles would dom the hell out of Spike and that's hot.

Honorable mention to Spike/Riley tho, which I think is tragically underrated for its insane enemies to lovers and/or hate sex potential. And I do also enjoy Spike/Xander and Spike/Angel. In theory I have a spander fic I'll finish one day!

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tridentarius · 3 years

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i mean, aside from the obvious, i think kennedy is in a lot of ways a victim of s7 trying to be too many things at once. cordy’s meanness is funny (but still punished by the narrative) because we first meet her as funny buffy’s foil in a trope-y season with a far lighter tone — by s7, everything’s so serious and the stakes (if you’d pardon the pun) are so high that attempts to mimic s1 comedy fall kinda flat, so it’s hard to read kennedy as funny/catty

I mean I don’t like season 7 but I like killow bc it was nice important to willow’s arc that u can move on from a tragic love and as small of a role she had (in which she was similar to early season cordelia who was just a typical mean girl character), kennedy was a good girlfriend to willow and uplifted her and it was pretty cute how kennedy was upfront in her flirting. kennedy’s biggest crime was being a mean lesbian. i thought y’all liked mean lesbians lmfao. also BIGGEST red flag is when someone likes spike or any other gross male character but hates on kennedy I’ve seen it so many times, one of them is an actual predator lmfao the double standards in the btvs fandom are sick.

#ask #anonymous #kennedy btvs #killow #btvs

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j-unos · 4 years

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top 5 fictional characters !

these are always SO. just going with my gut will scream revisions later i’m sure

> zechs merquise (gundam wing) absolute imprint for me, dramatic characters who carry their primal wound through their entire narrative

> marya morevna (deathless) the scope of what this novel allows marya to be! young and romantic, wounded in war, embittered, damsel and hero and betrayer

> meng yao/jgy (the untamed) back to primal wounds! narrative arcs that feel inevitable even as you watch characters make one terrible choice after another. yes i’m a fix-it enthusiast yes i nieyao i know what i am. the way meng yao serves as a foil to wwx (and xue yang, in his way) he may not be an orphan at the start but he’s another child tossed to the mercy of the world and we see the paths each of them take. the fact that he so many times could have asked someone for help and yet you believe of his character that he would not risk it, wouldn’t even consider it. that’s just good development.

> buffy summers (btvs) this was close - i LOVE spike talk about iconic characters, sometimes they just come out of the box perfect and steal every scene - but again the series gave buffy room. she faltered, she had doubts. she was brave and angry and selfless and witty

> jason todd (dc comics) another close call i love clark SO much but jason. it’s about tragedy and how we come back from it, it’s about how our demons grow with us and we keep fighting them. see zechs above, the drama queen jason is, the way he’s so clever but it’s his big bruised heart that’s going to push him to act every time

#query me

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tyrantisterror · 5 years

Text

Oh Fuck I’m TV Troping: A Short & Incomplete List of Bad Girls

Since that whole post about Bad Girls and Compassionate Male Heroes kinda blew up and the discussion just... isn’t stopping, I’ve been thinking of this trope a lot and uh, I guess I’m gonna list a bunch of examples of it since I’ve kinda been doing it already and it’d be nice to have them all in one spot I guess. Gonna put a cut because even though I don’t want to make a huge list, I still think this is gonna be long.

4 Tried and True Bad Girls - the following fit the archetype as I roughly defined it here pretty much to the letter. Of course, the thing about archetypes and tropes is that you don’t have to hit every single detail to still “count,” but it’s good to have a baseline.

Jessie

A member of an international crime syndicate, a notorious thief, and a recurring antagonist for the hero, Jessie from Pokemon is an excellent example of the Bad Girl trope because if you remove female pronouns while describing her, she basically fits the stock Bad Boy traits to a T. Aggressive and arrogant? Check. Prone to violent outbursts? Check. Intensely jealous of people who seem to have it easier? Check. Hidden tender side and tragic backstory? Check. Also she’s one half of the greatest romantic couple ever portrayed in fiction - and her counterpart is a compassionate, sweet-natured guy to boot!

Ryoko

I’m not going to fill this up with anime examples (though I probably could - Bad Girls are much more common in Japanese media), but I couldn’t resist including Ryoko, because she’s not just a Bad Girl - she’s a PIRATE, which, if my grandma’s collection of romance novels was anything to go by, is an incredibly popular occupation for a Bad Boy to have! More than that, she’s a space pirate, the plunderer of countless worlds, wanted by the space police force and considered a villain of legendary power. More than that, she can wield store brand lightsabers, shoot lasers out of her hands, and even spent a good chunk of time as a mummy! Ryoko’s personality is pure Dashing Rogue, the Bad Boy Girl who’s definitely a scoundrel but, maybe, just maybe, the kind of scoundrel who’s got a good heart. She definitely pines for love and an amount of stability, though she doesn’t want to stop traveling the stars as a boozing adventurer who gets into the most ludicrous scrapes. Everything about Ryoko plays up the ideas of a Bad Boy romance with the flair for drama and fantasy that a space opera can provide, except the Bad Boy is a girl and the sweet ingenue heroine is a boy.

Ryoko is who you wish Jack Sparrow would be.

Faith

Faith was introduced as a second Slayer in Buffy the Vampire Slayer, which was the result of magical shenanigans that suddenly rendered the whole “there can only be one slayer at a time” rule kinda moot. Ok that’s an extremely abbreviated summary and it’s really more complicated than that but I can already feel the non-Buffy fans falling asleep so let’s stay focused.

Since Buffy is, y’know, the main character, Faith was brought on to be her foil - an example of what Buffy wasn’t, but possibly could become. And since BtVS was a horror dramedy, Faith wasn’t a GOOD alternative - she was, explicitly, Buffy’s dark counterpart, from her brunette hair to her heavy and darker makeup to her rad leather jacket and, as the show frequently said, “slutty” wardrobe. Faith was more violent, more sexual, and more apathetic to others than Buffy was, and holy fuck did the show just hate her for it. Almost every character in it treated her like shit, with her sexuality in particular being a sticking point for many of them.

Faith is particularly interesting because she differs from Buffy (and the female cast at large) in almost the exact same ways that the show’s main Bad Boys, Angel and Spike, differed from its male characters - more violent, more sexual, darker clothes, etc. But while Angel and Spike get a great deal of sympathy from the narrative, Faith... didn’t. I mean they kinda sorta gave her some eventually, but most of it played out in the spinoff Angel, and the other characters continued to hold a grudge against her. Faith isn’t just an good example of the Bad Girl trope - she’s an example of how the reaction to Bad Girls differs from the reaction to Bad Boys, despite them being almost exactly the same.

Vriska Serket

OH FUCK IT’S HOMESTUCK

Ok, everyone still hates Homestuck, so I won’t belabor this point, but Vriska Serket, who is infamously the most divisive character in the entire story, is absolutely a bad girl. Arrogant, ruthless, abrasive, with a tragic backstory, a desire for both compassion and redemption, and a truly ambitious schemer, she ticks so many boxes and OH SHIT SHE’S ALSO A PIRATE. Like Faith, Vriska was in a story that had a lot of examples of Bad Boys too, and while the fandom fucking HATES Vriska, her Bad Boy counterparts are nowhere near as divisive, with one of them being extremely popular despite being a clown who murders people. The other one explicitly wants to commit genocide, literally saying almost exactly that, and is also far more well liked. WHY IS THIS?

But enough of the homestucks! Let’s move onto some...

Borderline Bad Girls - these ladies don’t fit the trope quite as neatly, but I still think they capture the jist, or at least used it as a base before experimenting in different directions. They are, at the very least, closer to the Bad Girl archetype than its sibling tropes, the Badass Heroine and the Femme Fatale.

Jessica Jones

I’m just gonna talk about the Netflix incarnation of this character, as I have not read the comic books featuring Jessica Jones and thus cannot comment on them.

The only real strike against Jessica Jones is that she isn’t a supporting cast member, like pretty much all other Bad Girls are. She’s the protagonist, the titular main character. That’s a unique honor for a Bad Girl to have! Otherwise, she fits - hard drinking, abrasive, rude, surly as hell, but with a tender heart, a tragic backstory, and a desire for redemption. Hell she’s even wearing the Bad Girl leather jacket.

Morrigan

Ok, we’re straying a bit far here, but I’m going to try to make a case here. Morrigan’s rudeness and abrasiveness isn’t quite as bombastic as the standard take on the Bad Girl trope - she actually phrases things very politely and speaks very softly most of the time, and is generally cordial to people when they are cordial to her. It’s the content of what she says, rather than the way she says it, that sets most people off. There’s also an odd naivety to Morrigan’s interactions that isn’t immediately noticeable because her vocabulary is so, well, verbose. She doesn’t make the “ill tempered thug” impression most Bad Girls make when they’re first introduced - she instead comes off as very sophisticated yet oddly ignorant of the civilized world, which is a very different starting point for a Bad Girl.

BUT! Morrigan’s character arc follows the rough path of a Bad Girl. She verbalizes a lot of callous and cruel ideas about the world when you first meet her, giving the impression that she is some sort of sadistic monster. It’s done in a very different way than the standard Bad Boy/Bad Girl, but it has the same effect - you are led to think this girl is a Bad Person very early on. And yes, to some extent she is - but, just like any other Bad Boy/Bad Girl, her actions later on show that’s not all there is to her, that, even if she isn’t aware of it, there is a loving core to Morrigan - she wants to be good.

Like most Bad Boys/Bad Girls, it’s eventually revealed that Morrigan’s childhood situation was NOT GREAT, and that she has been the victim of abuse and some very bad parenting. A great deal of her wickedness isn’t inherent to her, but something she was indoctrinated into - and, in TRUE Bad Boy/Bad Girl fashion, love, especially romantic love, makes her doubt her view of the world. It begins to break apart, and she gradually learns, to her confusion, horror, and eventually, hope, that there is another way to live - a better, kinder way.

One might argue that Morrigan doesn’t fit the Bad Girl trope, but another villainous female archetype instead. For instance, one might say she is instead a Femme Fatale, since she dresses all sexy like and whatnot - but Morrigan doesn’t really seduce people all that often in the narrative. Early on in the first Dragon Age game you have an option to ask her to seduce a guard, and Morrigan not only reacts in disgust, but instead horrifies the guard into letting you by instead (because Morrigan is great). The only time she does seduce someone is specifically to keep the main characters from an otherwise inevitable death via a dark magic ritual - and yes it does feel ridiculous to type that out, but 1. it makes more sense in context and 2. I think the ridiculous circumstances of this seduction kinda illustrates why it’s not really a core character trait of hers, which is why she doesn’t fit the Femme Fatale mold. Likewise, while one could say she fits the idea of a Vain Sorceress... well, other than being pretty and using magic, Morrigian really doesn’t. She’s not motivated by preserving her youth, and doesn’t really seem to care much for traditional beauty standards at all if her conversation with Leliana is anything to go by (though she does meet them anyway because, well, Video Games). Morrigan doesn’t really fit any villainous female archetype perfectly, but if we accept her as a Bad Girl, she makes for a particularly interesting example.

Hexadecimal

Straying further! Like Morrigan, one might be tempted to put Hexadecimal in the Vain Sorceress or Femme Fatale archetypes instead, but again, like Morrigan, she really doesn’t act like either of those two despite being a sexy lady who uses magic for villainous ends. Instead she’s defined by being the sort of superhero/action adventure cartoon variety of “crazy,” which isn’t based on any real mental illness, but rather an excuse for her to cause a lot of mayhem for no real reason. Unlike most “crazy” villains, though, Hex’s insanity is treated with sympathy by the narrative and the main hero - while most people would be willing to write Hex off as someone they’d rather live without, Bob, the hero, continually tries to reason with her and help her overcome her madness.

Most people wrote her off as a lost cause, but the hero showed her compassion. There’s smackings of a Bad Boy in that.

As the show goes on, Bob’s compassion for Hexadecimal is repaid with her own affection, and she slowly turns from villain to hero out of a desire to not only keep Bob safe, but make sure he’s happy - and she comes to realize he can’t be happy without the people he loves. Hex becomes a truly tragic and noble character towards the end of the show, as she knows Bob will never reciprocate her romantic affections but still remains on his side anyway, even saving the lives of people who argued against saving her. A villain who seems like a frothing mad dog, only to be turned into a hero after the compassion of a hero makes them realize the value of human life? That’s is SUCH a Bad Boy arc. Hexadecimal may not fit some of the aesthetic trappings of the Bad Girl archetype, but her arc fits it perfectly.

Harley Quinn

When she was first introduced, Harley Quinn wasn’t a Bad Girl so much as she was, like, the perky love interest of a bad guy. She wasn’t given enough focus and agency in the narrative to really fit the Bad Girl archetype. However, in recent years she’s been retooled a bit to work independently of the character she was designed to orbit, and as a result she may be our second example of a Bad Girl protagonist. She’s a supervillain, or at least was, and was in league with one of the worst at that. She’s loud and aggressive in combat, has a big bombastic personality, and revels in living an anarchic lifestyle. But, as her solo series shows, she does have a good heart deep down, adopting stray dogs and helping out fellow weirdos who have been left behind by a world that doesn’t give a damn about them. Harley Quinn is and has always been defined by her desire to be loved, which is very much a Bad Girl sort of trait - especially since that desire often leads to her acting out, just as most Bad Boys and Bad Girls act out because, ultimately, they haven’t been shown enough love.

Plus a lot of her modern designs add a leather jacket, and it just seems that once a girl wears a leather jacket she has at least a 70% chance of being a Bad Girl.

Azula, Mai, and Ty Lee

I had no idea where to put these ladies and whether or not they fit this archetype, but I felt they had to be noted because they’re very well known examples of complicated female villains who don’t fit the Femme Fatale archetype at all, which in turn makes them feel like pretty good candidates for Bad Girl-dom. Azula probably fits the archetype the closest, though you don’t see her desire for compassion until VERY late in the series (where she is, sadly, too far gone to get her redemption). Mai comes in close second, though her sullen demeanor oddly fits the Badass Heroine a bit better. And then Ty Lee... Ty Lee... I mean she’s like an even sweeter and kinder Harley Quinn, she hardly even counts as a villain except she works with the bad guys... I don’t know what we do with Ty Lee, guys. Ty Lee’s just her own thing.

#Bad Girl

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