#spoilers for the golden compass but

[dangans-ur-ronpas]

ive been listening to the audio books for His Dark Materials and like. wow. little kid me was reading these without even blinking?? some of the stuff in these books is war crime shit

[biscottiarts]

ah yes my favourite deeply problematic heretics-

[hatters-workshop]

Last night I finally watched the finale of His Dark Materials, and of course it made me cry. I've read the final chapters of the Amber Spyglass so many times, and cried at each one. Was it perfect for me? No. But it never could be, because perfect for each individual reader is impossible, and an unfair thing to hope something would achieve. But it was excellent. And Dafne and Amir acted their hearts out with those lines between Lyra and Will when they're raging against the fate they're faced with, and with their promises to each other, and they broke my little heart with it. And finally hearing the "every atom of you and every atom of me..." speech... ooft that kicked me in the gut in all the right ways.

But this morning I happened to read the poem by Clare Harner that goes

Do not stand at my grave and weep

I am not there, I do not sleep

And I was hit suddenly by image after image invoked by each line, of each of them, old now and lying in bed (yes I want peace for them in the end. Some would want them to have a victorious or adventurous end but I think they deserve peace.) Pan pressing his face to Lyra's in a final embrace, and Kirjava pressing hers to Will's, and both humans whispering to their daemons that their atoms will find each other, just as they found each other when they were separated before, and Will telling Kirjava to keep Pan's atoms company while Will and Lyra find each other and look for them, and Lyra saying the same to Pan. They tell them that they know where the opening is, if they want to meet them there, but that they would find them either way. And Pan and Kirjava whisper an unneeded reminder to their humans: tell them stories.

And then a wisp of golden fire and Dust curls around a face in each world. Lyra sees her Death again, and they lead her as true as they did the first time. And Will meets his Death, and recognises them though its the first time they've met, but they lead him true, too.

And maybe Will and Lyra find each other in the land of the dead. I'm a romantic, and think even though they are so far apart and couldn't possibly know that the other was dying, they die in the same moment in their own worlds, whatever their lives have gone on to be. Because the universes kept them from being reunited in life, the least they could do is let them see each other again in death, and even with all the changes of their lives and the years they've lived, they know each other instantly. How could they not? And it's a feeling like finding something precious you have looked for every day of your life (because they have) and finally feeling the relief of finding it, and their ghosts are thin and cold and made of almost nothing. They should pass through each other, except they're made of the same kind of nothing. It doesn't feel like it did when they were in their bodies, but it's enough. Soon they'd be closer than they ever could be naturally in life. And they’re the closest they’ve been in so long. So for now, it's enough to hold each other, hand in thin, cold, ghostly hand.

They are at the jetty and the ferry man greets them, and at first he doesn't know them. He hasn't ferried anyone twice before, and he hasn't been hugged and greeted as an old friend, and Lyra wishes she could jokingly scold him for making her leave Pan last time but even now, decades later that wound is too fresh to come out as a joke, and she misses Pan even though she knows she'll be with him again soon, so she let's the chance for the joke go, and they talk to him the whole journey. They don't know if he's alive, or dead, or some other form that is just his, but he looks so genuinely cheery as they speak to him, in a way that his face looks unfamiliar with being, with so many years of his heavy duty weighing on him until now.

They tell him what happened last time they were here, of how they found their daemons like they said they would, and how the opening would let everyone he ferries back out into the world. He looks genuinely shocked at the news.

"Did no one tell you?" They ask.

"Who would tell me?" He replies.

So they tell him, that his job is not to escort people to a prison, but to deliver them back into the world to rejoin every living thing. That the people he ferries need only tell the harpies their stories: and stories, as long as they’re true, of what they saw in life, no matter how small or boring or painful, and to tell them the good news. And the weight lifted from him further, his back straightened and his face brightened, and as they stepped to the shore, he waved to them rather than regretfully returning to his collections as he had every other time, and they heard the echoes of him whispering the phrase they passed down the line last time they'd been there: "Tell them stories."

And no sooner has the sounds of the lap of his boat been eaten by the mist, but they are replaced by flutter of heavy wings.

Of Gracious Wings.

The voice that greeted them was familiar but different: still loud and bold, but it has lost its strained, cracked and painful sound. Her lips were pink instead of the red of caked, vomited blood, and her hair hung soft around her face. A diet of varied stories, even for just the years of Will and Lyra's life, exchanged for millennia of screeching cruelties in the ears of the dead, has clearly suited her, and the smell of putrefaction had faded entirely. She welcomed them, and other harpies gathered themselves around the little ghosts, as they had all been waiting to hear these tales most of all, and they will pass them on to the others, the ones that are away guiding the ghosts to their freedom, so that they can enjoy the tales too.

So Lyra and Will began at the beginning, though they knew that some of it had already been heard by their audience. They added to each other's stories, filling in details and perspectives. It wasn't a short story, and though they were eager to rejoin the world, they enjoyed the reminiscence of the triumphs, and even the pain of the losses and separations could not be skipped over, as they were all a part of their story and to avoid any part of it would be a disrespect to each other.

But then their story as each other know it finishes: their final clumsy kiss before closing the window between their worlds. Every word from then on is new, and they watch each others lips make the shapes of their tales, food for each other as much as for the harpies. The only shared touch point was every year, their shared moment of peace and closeness each Midsummer. They learned of each other's friends and families, loves and losses. Of Will's life with his mother and Mary, and Lyra's learning in St Sophia's and reconnecting with the alethiometer at long last. Of who they were leaving behind in their own worlds, who would mourn them, despite their promises that they were going to go on to be a part of in every world. And as they reached the end of their stories as they could be told; as they reach that very moment, sitting on the floor of the world of the dead, surrounded by harpies and holding each others hands, their words ran out as they just. Look at each other. And smile. Hand held in cold, thin, ghostly hand.

So they rose, and Gracious Wings escorted them personally to the window they had made so long ago now. They waited their turn, though the queue was constantly moving on eager ghostly feet, desperate to return to the world as were, to feel the sun’s rays on their face once more, before they become part of those rays.

They take a moment, hanging back as other ghosts pass through, to look back out across that other world’s horizon. With delight they find it’s changed for the better: the huge seed pod trees seem to be growing stronger and healthier, and though they only had a small view through the window, there are no signs of them dying off like they were before.

They whispered amongst themselves briefly about doing as Will’s father and Lee Scoresby and all those brave people that held their ghosts together to step out into the world to fight in Asriel’s last stand against Metatron. To hold their particles together long enough to return to the mulefa’s world, revisit the trees they knew, see that spot by the river where they held those little red fruits to each other’s lips.

“No,” says Will at length. “We’ve made Kirjava and Pan wait long enough. We’ve waited long enough, too.”

“Plus,” Lyra says, almost giddy, “Soon enough we’ll be part of that river and those berries and everything else too.”

So they step up to the edge of the window, and smell the air and feel the warmth of the sun with the last time on these faces.

Do not stand at my grave and weep.

I am not there. I do not sleep.

I am a thousand winds that blow.

I am the diamond glints on snow.

I am the sunlight on ripened grain.

I am the gentle autumn rain.

When you awaken in the morning's hush

I am the swift uplifting rush

Of quiet birds in circled flight.

I am the soft stars that shine at night.

Do not stand at my grave and cry –

I am not there. I did not die.

[filmmakerdreamst]

Lyra and Will is the best YA romance I've ever read. Not joking when I say I felt hollow for months when I read the part where they had to be separated at the end of 'The Amber Spyglass'.

Amir and Dafne did a fantastic job. I loved how they gave them more soft moments without cheapening their bond. Throughout the books, their relationship is incredibly delicate and subtly written (they're young after all) and they could have easily made it more obvious and over exaggerated for a Mainstream Audience. You'd think that wouldn't be possible but thats what Moira Walley Beckett did with Anne and Gilbert in 'Anne with an E' (that relationship basically consisted of staring at each other from a distance in that show rather than having a consistent build up)

I read an interview of Amir saying “We never really looked at it as a romantic thing. It was more important that we [Will and Lyra] were two friends that get along, and something might happen if it does happen. When playing the scenes it was never in the back of my mind.”

Edit: I wrote this analysis ^^ before my re-read and after re-reading the books I realised that was a bad approach to Lyra and Will's relationship. Even from the start, Lyra and Will's interactions are charged in the books and playing platonic until the finale at the end, is kind of a weird decision.

I personally always saw it as a deep bond between two teenagers, that became physical during the end because of everything they went through. It went beyond the typical romantic duality.

However, If I had to choose which version of their relationship I prefer (the book or the TV Show) I would have to choose the book. Because I felt during the last third, in the finale, that their relationship was a bit compacted like kiss -- you have to choose worlds -- separation. In the book, that part is so dragged out and emotional. Lyra and Will spend ages trying to find loopholes, find that there are none, then both of them get angry and upset. And it’s described that the angel felt their 'sorrows in the air'. In the tv show, I didn't really feel all that because everything was so 'get to the point' - when this is supposed to be a drawn out climax.

Unlike some others, I simultaneously believe that Lyra and Will are each others other half/soulmates. They are the only people in 'His Dark Materials' that can touch each others daemons without it being a violation and they will never love anyone else the way they loved each other. That's basically confirmed in 'The Secret of Commonwealth' (the spin off to 'His Dark Materials) where Lyra states that she still thinks of him every hour and that he’s the centre of her life.

And that their separation made sense.

Even though it was the most heartbreaking thing I ever read and left me hollow inside - its not realistic for them to have a solid relationship at 14 or how ever young they were at that point, especially on top of all their trauma. Also, it’s suggested in the books that everything must go back to the way that it was (closing all the windows) almost saying to the reader, you can't live in a fantasy world forever, you have to go back to the real world and live a full life. It’s like at the end of 'The Lord of the Rings' where Frodo destroys the ring, yet still dies at the end because of everything he went through.

It’s not fair. It’s not right. But thats just how life goes sometimes. Plus it made their ending a lot more memorable and iconic. I've actually gone to their real bench in Oxford and cried.

Although saying that, Philip Pullman has to let them see each other again when they're adults, in the last 'Book of Dust' - at least one last time come on now. But I have a feeling he won't reunite them until they die because he’s a cruel, cruel man.

[maddiviner]

When I was (I think?) eleven, I found a copy of the first book in Philip Pullman's His Dark Materials series (Northern Lights). It was in my English teacher's personal classroom library. She immediately let me borrow it, because she was always trying to encourage us to read.

And this? The passage above? Was so exciting to me as a kiddo.

Why? At that age, I wasn't quite in the teenaged "I know everything" mode. I did have the vague idea that smart people went their own way and didn't listen to anyone, though.

Of course, I was a kid, and well-aware of my own limitations. Still, I guess growing up in the 1990s, individuality got pushed a lot, and with it, self-sufficiency. Actual smart people, I thought as a child, could handle things on their own right?

But here? In this book, you've got a portrayal of super-serious academic adults listening to each other. The main speaker in the passage is a college president discussing funding. He's a smart guy. The matter at hand involves other universes and physics and lots of cool stuff like that. He's seen a bit about it, but doesn't understand it in its entirety.

The point, though? He's perfectly willing to admit the matter at hand isn't his field. He trusts his colleagues understand it, and he listens to them about it. Unfortunately, the matter at hand is interdimensional heresy, but he's choosing to place his trust in the experts anyways.

Of course, nowadays, we live in a world where everyone wants to "do their own research" on YouTube. It sounds good, of course, and it jives with what a lot of us learned growing up. Skepticism, lack of trust for authority, etc. I'm not even saying that can't be healthy.

It's just that experts exist for a reason. We have them so that we can listen to them. I know we shouldn't consume anything uncritically, but part of critical thinking involves looking to those who already know more.

It seems like with the internet having wrapped its gossamer claws around civilization, more and more people have stopped doing that, for better or worse. Anyways, I hunted down this passage again, on the Kindle copy, because this was on my mind.

[stickers-on-a-laptop]

why is the blade novel rpm fjsdiaojdsiofjsioafjidsojiofa

[aeschylus]

gos2 to gos1 is like what subtle knife was to the golden compass (more of like an addendum and a side-quest to the first book to provide context for the third book) so gos3 being The Second Coming will be like what the amber spyglass did to golden compass which was that it utterly surpassed it, entered the realm of adult fiction, destroyed and rebuilt its genre, and wrecked all of our hearts for eternity and so forth 🙃

[wack-ashimself]

Ok, if you have not gotten into 'his dark materials' (based off the book series 'the golden compass') you are missing out on a narrative that may be WAY too close to home with reality. It's religion, politics, and spirituality ALL into one.

<SPOILERS>

Basically, in MULTIPLE universes, an evil government or organization runs the world. Censors any free thought, tries to control the masses, and does horrific experiments on adults and children (more on the children so they know what could work early on). You find out there is no 'creator' but an angel with immense powers controlling all the worlds (and indirectly these organizations) claiming to be god. And this shows the....evil things good people will do to stop more eviler things (a dad considers killing his own kid for the cause! Instead he kills his kid's best friend!!)

Here's the quote that made me go 'I know this is sci fi/fantasy, but, like the matrix, this is far too close to reality than away from it...'

'They are taking our souls, Ogunwe, and with them our humanity. To make us easier to control. To make us this...' *points to an empty vessel that is 'human'.

[hauntedfalcon]

(MORE candela dark materials stuff)

draven kingsley's daemon is (was) an argentine black and white tegu. the aesthetics of it are too perfect otherwise. also: What Happens To Daemons Exposed To Bleed... the shapeshifting creatures impersonate people, and surely to do that successfully in this setting they would need to mimic daemons - or maybe the lack of one would be a sign that someone's been replaced?

also. auntie bee and her daemon The Most Stubborn And Judgemental Goat To Ever Exist. this goat has caught sean and marion getting into trouble as children So Many Times and has Never Even Once cut them any slack about it. they can't reminisce about their childhoods for two minutes without The Goat going "hey remember when you got yourself concussed because you did some stupid shit and then Did Not Learn Your Lesson?" it 100% also pretends to just be regular goat sometimes, in much the same way that bee plays up her "just a frail old lady nothing to see here" thing when she's Up To Mischief. everyone is a little bit terrified of this very powerful goat.

also... the implication that, potentially, jinnah's dad was the one to sever jean and marion's daemons? because there was something Wrong with their daemons maybe?? (that maybe their daemons "died" but they themselves didn't, and they were stuck bound to this corpse that wouldn't fade away until it had to be severed from them like a rotten limb??) or that it happened somehow without anyone actively doing it - marion waking up from sleepwalking at the age of seven, suddenly unable to find his daemon anywhere?? (he wanted to be normal so bad, would that manifest as attempts to hide that he doesn't have a daemon? feeding stray animals, trying to coax them close to him so that if someone were to glance over they'd assume he still had his soul? jean looking at those display cases of pinned beetles and arachnids and Feeling about it??)

for some reason I'm picturing nathaniel's dad as having a straight-up horse daemon and I can't put it out of my mind. A Full Very Big Horse that you cannot move more than like ten feet away from at any given time. you go into a room and see a well-dressed man and A Horse. and the horse is a right bastard, too. terrible company.

for sean's mum, I'm imagining a fox, and I don't know why. something something foxes are clever city-dwelling animals that hide in burrows and are hunted down by dogs??

anyway; I know Almost Nothing about his dark materials, certainly not enough to actually write anything myself, but oh boy the brainwheels are a-turnin' about how fucked up this au could potentially get

oooohoohoo my god hell yes. what if the bleed creatures manifest fake daemons as just like. a growth or a tendril forming that shape beside them. horrifying. especially horrifying in a world where everyone is used to daemons because they would gradually get the creeping sensation that no matter how realistic they seem, there’s no soul in there

have you listened to the Worlds Beyond Number children’s campaign? because Bee’s goat is giving big Taro vibes and I’m here for it

absolutely HATE the idea of seven year old kids carrying around their dying or dead daemons, you genius, that’s so devastating. Marion with a canary in his hands that keeps fluttering and turning into a yellow butterfly and back but can’t. work up the strength to fly. I believe in you, make this AU even more fucked up than that, I dare you

[aficklebeast]

His Dark Materials is a great set of series and I cannot recommend it enough. It’s more or less an ideal adaption of the books. There’s what I would describe as two moments - one small and the other medium-small as areas where it lacked. Ultimately, as a huge fan of the books, I give it a golden (monkey) rating in adaptation. I was so happy at the end of it all - I have been wanting more HDM media for I don’t even know how long and they give us this beautiful gift of a series.

Mild spoilers under cut

Mrs. Coulter’s redemption arc is one of the best I’ve personally seen for any character. I started out (rightfully) hating her for her abusive ways but ended up seeing her for the very flawed human who actually, really attempted to learn from her bullshit. It was wonderful - she wasn’t woobiefied. It wasn’t too fast, or easy. She really had to learn. It was intriguing seeing her daemon obviously be the one to become “more human” as time wore on - so much of her was conveyed through him. Not to say Ruth Wilson’s acting job was done for her by a CGI monkey - she was skillful and absolutely what sold Marissa’s story. I speak of the monkey as the story-telling tool that helped to convey what by nature of the visual medium cannot. As far as the bits I felt were “lacking” are the bear fight - was the jaw-thing too graphic for the series, or too recently done by the movie? I do wonder. The other is I wish we’d gotten more time in the Mufela’s world. Wouldn’t have to be a ton - perhaps an episode or two worth of extra world-building. I was so excited to see the evil swan boats on screen and to not get that was a bit disappointing. I read they ran into budgetary constraints, so, fair. They did what they could. It hardly was a great blow to the series - and perhaps I can dream that in the course of spin-offs we’ll get to see more about just how Mary Malone came to live amongst the mufela, and the menace that they all shared because of the evil swan boats that I refuse to look up the spelling of their actual name at this time.

[h3lgertime]

String Bean!

Like the Daemons from The Golden Compass

[incorrectsmashbrosquotes]

Miquella vs Ranni: Loyalty and Love

SPOILERS FOR SHADOW OF THE ERDTREE UNDER THE CUT, BUT COME FOR MY THOUGHTS!

There are so many essays I could write, comparing Ranni and Miquella, but I'm going to contain myself and focus on the most important aspect of comparisons: how they treat the concepts of love and loyalty and the people who give that to them. Especially in light of Miquella's instant kill "Heart Steal" attack.

The thing about Miquella is, even though he's kind, even though he's compassionate, he DOES NOT VALUE love and loyalty. And why should he? It's always been given freely to him. He can just force someone to love him anyway, stealing their heart. So, the people who love him are disposable, treated like pawns. Malenia? Literally left to rot in the home they built together. Mohg? Turned into a glorified guard dog. Even Radahn, turned into his perfect consort.

And Miquella probably does love them, but his perception of love is completely skewed by the nature of the fact that EVERYONE loves him. It's something he just gets. Something he uses.

Compassion and love are Miquella's weapons. They're what he uses to protect himself. It's cheap, something he can get easily.

Now, compare that to Ranni.

For Ranni, love and loyalty are dangerous. She's seen how ruinous and terrible they can be. She's seen her mother's mind wither away, a consequence of Radagon breaking her heart. She's seen Radagon break Rennala's heart for his love of the Golden Order.

The only people who loved her unconditionally are Blaidd and Iji, and even Iji's more around out of loyalty to the House of Caria than love for Ranni.

That is to say, Ranni respects and understands the power of love more than Miquella ever could.

Think of how she tells you to leave her to her lonely path. Her engagement ring, engraved with a warning to stay away, that her destiny is cold and lonely. Ranni pushes people away for their own safety, and that makes her love all the more valuable.

Love, for Ranni, is something at once dangerous and precious. The despondent way she tells you, once you've defeated the Baleful Shadow, to tell Blaidd and Iji that she loves them. Ranni knows what their love has cost them. Knows what it has bought her. She respects love and is naturally wary of it.

And that's what makes it so valuable.

Miquella doesn't appreciate love, because he's always had it.

Ranni treasures it because she's always struggled with it.

God, I love this game.

[thewisecheerio]

Messmer's actually terrible at his job. (affectionate)

Messmer is a fascinating villain, because he is strangely compassionate. I would go so far as to argue that this same compassion that is so at odds with his villainy is the very thing that drove him to become that villain in the first place. Hang with me; this is a long post.

Spoilers for Elden Ring DLC. Obviously.

Messmer tells us himself that his purpose is to purge all those stripped of the grace of gold. "Yet...my purpose standeth unchanged. Those stripped of grace of gold shall all meet death...in the embrace of Messmer's flame." We can piece together who gave him this genocidal purpose from his armor set's description, which tells us directly that he's working on his mother's behalf *and also* taking all the blame for it.

So he's playing war criminal on Marika's behalf. And I do mean playing. I'm not downplaying the fact that he is a war criminal; he has murdered on entire people. But here's the thing: he's *terrible* at playing the sole part of the spiteful, hateful overlord. He's *awful* at reveling in war and its victories.

Why? Empathy.

Messmer is strangely empathic for what could have otherwise been a cut-and-dry villain:

1. His relationship with Gaius, an Albinauric: We learn from Gaius's Remembrance that he was Messmer's bestie. We also know that Gaius was an Albinauric both from his armor as well as the location "Albinauric's Hut" in the direction he comes from at the beginning of his fight. Albinaurics are despised by the Golden Order, but Messmer didn't seem to care. In fact, he cared so little that he gave Gaius command of either a huge chunk or perhaps his entire army, second only to him. And what is given as the basis of this friendship? The fact that they were "both cursed from birth", i.e. a mutual understanding of what it is to be despised. They're trauma bonded because they have empathy for each other's predicament.

2. His relationship with the Jar people: Even though the Jar people were used as weapons of war against his own people, he doesn't seem to resent them. How do we know? There is a hospital where the Jars and their innards are being cared for in the Storehouse, a stone's throw away from where Messmer spends all his time. There are even a few baby Jars running around in it. Strange thing to do to what is essentially an enemy of your people, unless you consider them to also be victims of the same conflict.

3. His relationship with his soldiers: Messmer shares his own flame with his army. Yeah, that absolutely could be interpreted as a utilitarian move for the sake of war. Power up the troops, boost your chance at victory. But it's a strange choice when he could have just armed them in the traditional way of handing them sharp, pointy objects and pointing in the desired direction of stabbing. Instead, arming your soldiers with your own power could also be interpreted as something you do when you care about their survival and are potentially working directly with them to ensure it.

4. The mourning of people who betray him: Speaking of his soldiers, Messmer gets betrayed by at least a few of them. We learn this from the ashes of Andreas and Huw. Huw's ashes further tell us that Messmer *mourned their loss* as brothers-in-arms. Weird thing to do to someone who has betrayed you, unless you care very deeply about them to begin with.

5. The implications of the Storehouse: Even though he is actively genociding Hornsent on Marika's orders, he somehow has preserved an entire library of their history. At first, I thought this was maybe just British Museum vibes: steal all the artifacts and refuse to give them back. (And that could still be a correct interpretation.) But in context of the rest of these points, if you're truly hellbent on erasing a culture, why would you bother to preserve any of it? Would you not burn the libraries along with the people? It's a fairly common thing to do in our world's wars--destroy the art and history to ensure full erasure. And yet, it seems he can't even bring himself to avoid some small amount of sympathy for the people he was explicitly tasked with killing. If you really *think* about the basis for his sympathy for Marika, this does make a lot of sense. Messmer is following Marika's orders because he knows about what the Hornsent did to the Shaman. Wouldn't it then also be the case that once Marika's reign became nothing but genocide, i.e. an exact reversal of what was done to her people, he would have the same kind of sympathy for them? Perhaps this is a form of harm reduction in the only way he could square with what he thinks is his purpose.

6. His own self-hatred: Messmer despises his own flames, which we learn from the Messmer's Orb description. If you were happy to be Doing a Genocide, would you not celebrate your weapons of war? Wouldn't you take pride in them as tools of power? Unless, of course, you're not actually as happy as we think and maybe having regrets and come to be filled with severe self-hatred. Woops.

So then, if Messmer is this guy running around with a lot of Big Feelings (and probably a deep need for a Prozac prescription), why does he even agree to this genocide in the first place? Isn't that an *odd* choice for someone who seems to care pretty deeply about people, even people despised by his family's governing order? Why does he carry out these orders even to the point of developing a deep self-hatred?

This is where Messmer's sympathy, one of his best aspects, also becomes his fatal flaw.

I mentioned above in 5 that Messmer has access to information about both sides of this conflict. As much as he might have sympathy for everyone around him--including weapons used against the Shaman like the Jars--that means he *also* has sympathy for the Shaman. So if you have sympathy for the other side and sympathy for your side, and you are raised by your own side, then what is the natural outcome? Your side wins. If you must choose a side, then you fight on behalf of Child Soldier Fostering Mother Marika. She raised you, after all. It's inevitable.

In the end, that same sympathy he seems to extend to others also is what causes him to do war crimes. Out of an abundance of sympathy for what happened to the Shamans, he agrees to take up arms.

At the end of the day, he's still a villain that needs to be stopped so that he'll stop oppressing an entire people on behalf of his mother's misguided attempts at revenge. But making his reasoning to agree to become that villain in the first place *empathy* of all things? Fascinating.

[marudol]

kabru and the dungeon lords

kabru is a very critical character to dungeon meshi for a thousand and one reasons, and not merely for his status as the point-of-view character in the story's b-plot. kabru represents the compass by which dungeon meshi's world works. he has big-picture motives that involve the entire world, much grander than the original a-plot of "let's save falin."

he is our classic hero, a character who suffered great personal tragedy and must ensure that no one suffers the same fate. as such, he is a great parallel for dungeon meshi's most integral characters:

the dungeon lords themselves.

🚨manga spoilers ahead.🚨

thistle

picture this: you are a child, separate from anyone else in the world who looks like you due to circumstances beyond your control. you are taken by pale-skinned adults who try to treat you well; who clothe you, feed you, and put a roof over your head.

it is not enough.

who am i describing - kabru, or thistle?

kabru-thistle parallels focus on their shared past as trans-racial adoptees. their shared experiences are not a universal one to all trans-racial adoptions in the dungeon meshi universe: the floke twins are treated well by their gnomish foster (grand)parents; allowed to be children while they are children and treated as adults when they are adults.

not all trans-racial adoptees are given the same courtesy. kabru was raised by an elf who infantilized him, even once he was fully-grown. milsiril did not always know what kabru needed from her, so she defaulted to treating him the way she would treat an elf his age rather than understand what his age meant as a tall-man.

by contrast, thistle was raised by tall-men. freinag saw thistle as a son and so he and delgal thought themselves as brothers. but as delgal aged and matured, thistle remained stagnant. eventually, delgal's relative age surpassed thistle's- but no one could even conceive of that, because thistle's numerical age made the tall-men around him treat him as an adult rather than a teenager.

they both feel immense responsibility for the tragedies suffered by their people. kabru explicitly believes there must be a "reason" he survived utaya and that the reason was to destroy the dungeons to ensure it never happened again, and thistle IS the reason the golden country survived their war, and why eodio made it to adulthood all.

kabru and thistle are characters pre- and post-accomplishing their goals. kabru has yet to assume total responsibility; thistle already has.

they must save them- they must protect them all.

[🩵]

marcille

once upon a time, a child lost a parent before they were ready to, and the trajectory of their life changed forever. desperate to understand, the child grew into an adult and dedicated themself to preventing their personal loss from happening to anyone else ever again. as a result, they looked downward into the dungeon's depths.

they will find the answers they seek.

who am i describing- kabru, or marcille?

marcille and kabru stand as important secondary figures to laios, our main protagonist. in the words of another excellent post, they are the heaven foils to laios's earth. where laios is grounded and thinking about the here and now, they have both identified big picture problems plaguing their world and pursue these goals with intense fervor.

however, these goals have been diverted by censorship. marcille cannot access information about historical ancient magic through traditional means and the elves won't tell kabru what happened to utaya's dungeon, so they both decide to go and do something with their own two hands.

entering the dungeon is a step towards their grander goals, which are both rooted in opposition to long-lived supremacy. critically: the solutions they come to are vastly different.

marcille's solution is very fantastical - "fixing" everyone's lifespans by making EVERYONE long-lived (though her original solution seemed to be more grounded; being a lord gave her the chance to indulge in the full fantasy).

on the other hand, kabru wants something more concrete and based in the real world. he wants to use the dungeon as a means to an end before destroying it entirely, whereas marcille wants the dungeon to be the end. hers is a magic idea borne about by escapism, while kabru wants to solve a societal problem with something tangible to improve the lives of the shorter-lived without resorting to the fantastical.

(note the similarity in these compositions!)

kabru and marcille are aiming for the heavens; they have chosen to act as stewards to bring about a better future for as many people as possible.

but eventually, they must crash back down to earth.

[🩵]

mithrun

a long time ago, a dungeon lord met their maker and the demon ate its fill, but failed to breach the surface. carnage and destruction was sown in its wake. in the aftermath, a survivor dedicated himself completely and utterly to the cause with no room for reproach.

the dungeon will be conquered. and if he has it his way, it will be conquered by his hand.

who am i describing- kabru, or mithrun?

if thistle represents kabru's past and marcille represents kabru's present, than mithrun represents one branch of kabru's future- and a rather bleak one.

mithrun has suffered great tragedy at the hands of a dungeon and, as a result, dedicated himself to be what he believes is his one remaining desire: to finally be consumed entirely. he thinks he has nothing else to live for, so he runs himself ragged every single day just to inch closer and closer at a chance to kill himself while pursuing his goal.

this great fervor is one that kabru artificially mimics long before meeting mithrun. kabru is willing to die for his goals. he does die for his goals. he thinks he is going to die without a chance for resurrection when he sabotages the canaries, which is why his 'last' thought is "it's up to you now, laios!"

remember: kabru believes his survival has to serve a purpose- his survival must have been 'worth it.' in order to make his own survival palettable, kabru dedicates himself entirely to the dungeon's destruction without long-lived intervention as a means to avoid repeating utaya's fate. kabru self-deprives, fails to care for himself, and he is constantly killed in pursuit of his goal to conquer the dungeon before people like the canaries can. while kabru has desires, he only indulges in the one that has guided him for over a decade.

functionally, he and mithrun are identical when they first meet.

kabru has purposefully deprived himself of his desires beyond ensuring another utaya doesn't happen again, and mithrun is proof of what happens when you follow that to its logical conclusion. however, over the course of their week together and the final arc of the story, kabru makes the choice to divert from mithrun's fate.

kabru looks into the eye of his ultimate goal, and in the culmination of his arc, ultimately refuses this destiny.

what do you want, kabru? are you hungry, kabru?

kabru indulges. instead of blindly following through the dungeon's destruction and sacrificing what he wants for the greater good, he wants, and he befriends laios instead of ending his life. he leaves mithrun's fate behind...

...and senshi- one of the most steadfast representatives of dungeon meshi's thesis- sets mithrun on a path where he, too, can learn to chase after newer, healthier desires.

[🩵]

laios

one day, a child was hungry for the answer to a question: "what is wrong with me?"

there is no satisfactory answer. a mother and a sister believe nothing is wrong, but everyone else in their small world disagrees. those eyes, that personality- something must be wrong.

but there is no recourse.

so, these children endeavor to focus on the world around them in ways that won't hurt them. one chooses to study and love humans, because humans are beautiful and complex and amazing. the other chooses to study and love monsters, because monsters are easier to understand and always obey one simple rule: eat or be eaten.

they double down on their interests soon enough. monsters have hurt one child enough, and humans can't get enough of hurting the other.

you know which one is kabru. you know which one is laios- dungeon meshi's fabled narrative foils.

laios and kabru are as textually close to being explicit foils as humanly possible. the first sentence of kabru's page of the adventurer's bible says it perfectly: "in every possible way, he's a contrast with laios. laios loves monsters, while kabru has an endless interest in humans" (56).

in basic terms, a foil character is a character with traits that contrast against another's, typically the main protagonist. this contrast serves to highlight the themes of the story, and we see that illustrated perfectly with laios and kabru.

where kabru has denied himself care, laios gives it to him without thinking. where laios believed no one could ever want to be his friend, kabru proves him wrong. the nature of nourishment and human connection are both critical foundations to dungeon meshi's story, and the main character struggling with human connection while his foil struggles with nourishment is no mistake.

kabru wanted to be laios's friend all along. the b-plot of dungeon meshi is driven by kabru's unconscious desire to understand and ultimately aid one inscrutable laios touden. the reason they cross paths at all is because kabru wants to meet him! he takes a chance when toshiro appears and sees his chance through.

but kabru doesn't realize it until he's already said it. he betrays himself, completely unaware that his supposed interest in the touden siblings skews a little more to the right than he could have possibly known.

killing laios would have been the ultimate preventative measure. he was yet to be dungeon lord, and with the canaries intent on handling marcille, kabru could have dealt with him right then on that cliff. but kabru doesn't take the opportunity because he doesn't want to.

he'd rather befriend laios than see him dead, and he takes the chance by the sleeve and doesn't let go until he is listened to.

and in the end, kabru is rewarded for his leap of faith: laios puts an end to the demon. laios has ensured that another utaya will never happen again.

laios saves the world.

all because kabru allowed himself to be selfish.

[ornstein]

(SPOILER WARNING) Some Messmer thoughts I've gathered as I'm still playing through SotE:

Messmer having decorated the highest area in specimen storehouse with statues of bats hanging upside down is kinda telling of his character, one one hand, like he made a home for these dark and misunderstood creatures because of his sympathy towards them. Adding to the fact Messmer probably keeps in the dark often because of his potential blindness (he is literally shrouded in shadows when you enter his chamber, and the snake is the one inspecting you upon intruding).

Treating jar mutated patients in the infirmary, revealing that he was trying to fix them or lessen their suffering, an act of compassion from a guy whose own bodily pain and suffering has become his day-to-day life.

The fact Marika's old village is hidden behind a statue of her that only opens if you perform the "O, Mother" gesture, an implication of Messmer possibly being the only one who leaves the keep to visit the village. Or perhaps he never visits it at all, as it may feel too a sacred place he would probably not dare stepping on in fear of sulling it, and if he does, be it just to feel the embers of the golden light cast by Marika's incantation shine upon him, with a sliver of hope he would be recognized with the grace he is devoid of...

He calls the Tarnished as unworthy to the throne because of their nature and kills them under Marika's order, while Messmer is yearning to return to Marika's embrace (and likely to be accepted into the Order as well) despite being himself even of worse nature than that.

Despite his tangible issues, I wonder if Messmer even managed to feel a certain level of compassion toward the people he massacred in the Shadowlands. His entire library is stacked with bodies of hornsent and information floods every corner, and I'm guessing the shadow people that you find in this place were hornsent themselves who probably had nowhere to go and were allowed to find somewhere "homely" within his library, ironically so, despite Messmer having driven them away from their own homes in the first place. And if the hornsent were truly the ones who hunted down the shamans from Marika's village, Messmer would have wanted to research them, to find answers to questions.

In short, Messmer may be fueling with resentment for Marika's neglect and self-hatred, but deep down he seems to be constantly trying to atone himself for his sins by doing acts of kindness to vulnerable beings.

Last but not least, I also think his entire character is a metaphor for the generational trauma part of repressing your true self in order to have a mentor figure love you back, and Messmer's abyssal serpent is the product of what happens when you've been bottling yourself up your whole life. The serpent gets too big until it devours you from the inside.

[fairymousse]

Omg, been fighting DLC Final Boss for ages, and I think while the lore is kinda shaky, the themes are perfect.

Spoilers below

So, everyone has been talking about how little base game connection Radahn really has to Miquella, which is true. But thematically, it's excellent.

Radahn styles himself after the two Elden Lord's Godfrey and Radagon. We can see evidence of Godfrey being kind, like his tender moment with Morgott, but general consensus is that he is a warmonger and complicit in Marika's order. Radagon as well is idolised, with his red hair being a symbol of pride. Similarly, the Consort Radahn boss fight emulates both of the Elden Lord boss fights. Radahn is silent, like Radagon, and Miquella on his back greatly resembles Serosh on Godfrey's back. Radahn promising lordship to Miquella makes perfect sense, he's emulated Lords his entire life. The refusal to honour the vow probably came from his loyalty to the Golden Order, which is why Miquella planned to have him killed, then revived.

And like, Miquella calls us "lord of the old order", which is true, but as you think about, Miquella's order is drenched in relics of history. For all his promises, his age of compassion mirrors the Minor Erdtree incantation: the kindness of gold without order. He returns to the site of Original Sin, in the Land of The Erdtree's birth, with a lord at his side who emulates previous lords who enforced a previous order. He is recreating an old order, in the hope it will be different this time. Yes, it's built on blood, but it'll all be worth it this time.

Omg even Marika herself harboured doubts about her order, leading her to shatter it to make room for a better one. Miquella removes his own doubts, meaning his flawed order so similar to the previous one, would be eternal.

Miquella's dream of a gentle world is well intentioned. But his plan to get there feels uninterrogated. As does his choice of Lord. To me, I think Radahn promised Miquella when he was still a Fundamentalist, and Miquella clung to it long after his order changed. And how could Miquella change his mind? He cast aside his doubts. (See my post on St Trina for my thoughts about that).

Miquella is a tragic figure, both self-sacrificing and manipulative, in search of an ideal that he cannot meet. The ends couldn't justify the means, and his order could never come to pass, but the dream was pure and kind. It's brilliant.

I wish this was more explicit though. The gut reaction still is to be quite confused.