#tanz discourse

[susandsnell]

For the character ask game 4; 8; 21 for Daniel Molloy and 10; 20 for Madeleine Eparvier? If that's too many, just pick which ones you're most interested in obviously :)

Hi anon! Finally sitting down to do these. Thank you for your patience with this, and double thank you for being the first person to ask me things about that old man and that spectacular queen. Let's go! I'll put it under the cut because boy I'm about to get long-winded -- I blame you for giving me so much to work with!

CHARACTER ASK GAME!!! 💫

Daniel Molloy

4. If you could put this character in any other media, be it a book, a movie, anything, what would you put them in?

You do not want to know the crossovers I've envisioned for this old man. Because of his meta role as the narrator, the messenger, and the archivist of the story, he fits surprisingly well into so many other pieces of media with the premise "what if he was the one investigating/interviewing the survivor". There are many other vampires I'd like him to interview (especially the ones from Tanz Der Vampire), and I'd love to see how a younger Daniel would fare in Fright Night (we all know how The Lost Boys would end for him..). But mostly, final girl that he is, I think he'd rock it in other horror media; the thing that has plagued him and enthralled him all his life. The thing he has begged for and run from. I wonder if The Ring's Rachel Keller was a former student or colleague of his, and if she'd enlist his help with respect to breaking the story on cursed video tapes. I want to see him in a Se7en or Longlegs type of neonoir slasher, sticking his nose where it doesn't belong, and yet coming through when it counts. I think that I would want to personally beat him to death myself for the things he'd say to Dani Ardor (Dan to Dan communication), but he's actually proven himself to be solid at deprogramming someone subjected to intense gaslighting (and very good at ruining relationships, including those that aren't his own!), and if he can keep the insanely misogynistic comments to a minimum for more than five minutes, he might've been able to get her away from the Harga by talking sense.

And finally, in what must make me the greatest parody of myself fathomable, yes, I think Daniel Molloy should investigate and probably write the retrospective on the Black Prom of Stephen King's Carrie. I've frequently joked that for all the addiction trouble, marital and familial trouble, and insanely out of pocket offensive comments, he's a Stephen King author avatar guesting at Manderley or perhaps Wuthering Heights.

But all seriousness, you have Sue Snell, who wrote her own autobiography of the horrific and targic events for which she wound up both scapegoated and disbelieved. Given his nose for the supernatural/preternatural, Daniel would follow where that thread leads and maybe help her find some peace in the process. The two certainly have a lot in common; both did fucking horrible things as a teenager for which they later faced an insanely disproportionate retribution, both have curly hair (usually in Sue's case), both are heavily coded to be repressing queerness leading them to unfulfilling heteronormative relationships/plans for unhappy family life, both take the role of the archivist and messenger to shape the horrors they lived into a narrative - their narrative - before the world will make of it what it will. Both fell in love with their monster(s). Both are fucking SURVIVORS.

(I kind of want to write this now...)

8. What’s something the fandom does when it comes to this character that you despise?

Honestly, I don't want to rehash bad discourse from twitter, so I'll just say exaggerating his very apparent flaws to thoughtlessly trigger people in the interest of winning a morality contest in this of all franchises. On the flipside of that, reducing him to his ship with Armand -- I've been very vocal regarding how much I despise the Armand Is Alice theory, and so long as it persists I'll continue. Not because of this or that headcanon, but it's phenomenally misogynistic to erase women we haven't even seen onscreen yet for slash because eewwww no girls allowed. Like what in the circa 2007 misogynistic yaoi livejournal, TJLC ass theory are we doing here. But also because it would be terrible writing. The emotional impact of old Maniel as a character concept is that he's lived a full life, accomplished incredible things, and had relationships that were meaningful and that he also destroyed. He has these things because of Louis' rescue of him and Louis' words, and when they see each other again in 2022, the tangible impact of his great deed are written in every line on Daniel's face. I don't mind 'the Chase happened' truthers at all, but my God, you undercut everything when you suggest that it's Oops, All Armand, meaning Daniel never had a life fully lived and failings and triumphs he carries with him. You also ironically make DM less interesting by making him the only person in Daniel's life of any significance. Just. Take the character as we got him, my god.

21. If you’re a fic writer and have written for this character, what’s your favorite thing to do when you’re writing for this character? What’s something you don’t like?

I have a whole Thing about how I'm a strident feminist who somehow hitched her wagon to this geriatric misogynist, but it is a part of his very distinctive voice, so I do like to dig deep with "what's the thing a man could say that would piss me off the most", and then I run it through the canon content (since his character voice is very particular and distinct), plus some meta works with Eric Bogosian, to see if it fits, sprinkle in some Freak Shit, and bada bing bada boom, we've got our favourite asshole. It's weirdly cathartic in a way? Exorcising demons of shitty men I've dealt with or known of I guess lmao. I would say in sappier moods I like looking for the gentleness and the silver lining underneath the ten layers of Having No Limits, and when I hit on what's tender but still plausible, aka my favourite Daniel moments? No better feeling.

The flipside of this, being what I don't like, is that keeping that voice up is hard and it is a challenge to stay as sharp and ten steps ahead as he is. Need to brush up on some Columbo, I think...

Madeleine Éparvier

10. Could you be best friends with this character?

My heart would really, really, really love to say yes, but my gut and my brain say a definitive no. For one thing, while they make it very, very clear she's not a Collaborator or antisemitic in the slightest, the way her wartime affair came about and her later actions betrays an amorality in those circumstances that I probably wouldn't be able to look past, outsiders though we both may be. I'm also one for obsessive morality-related thoughts in general, so I don't think this would jell especially well with her survivalist mentality. I'm also fluent in French but it's not my first language, so that would likely get on her nerves. And while we'd share an interest in fashion and I'd commend her for her tastes in both clothes and women, I feel like she'd see me as a bootlicker for my legal education lolol.

And most importantly - Madeleine is incredibly mean. It's hot, it's funny, it's sexy, but I am profoundly oversensitive, and she would absolutely make me cry several times lmao. I don't really know if there's any character on this show I'd be able to get along with because everyone is so delightfully awful and also, you know, murderous. But that's why it's fun!

20. Which other character is the ideal best friend for this character, the amount of screentime they share doesn’t matter?

Well, Claudia is her companion and soulmate, so that's the easy answer; they complete each other in a way that no one ever quite has. Two outcasts, two people brutally mistreated in societies to which they were supposed to belong, two women carrying pain and humour and brutality and softness, and growing flowers over the corpses they leave in their wake. She is the X at the end of Claudia's long journey, the reason she doesn't leap in the fire who did not think twice about burning at her side; she is the only one who reads Claudia's diaries with permission. Claudia is her window to the wider world, her rescuer twice-over, and the only person who meets her where she is, in strangeness and violence and joy, in sucking the marrow from the bones you leave behind you.

So...'best friend' is probably a very light way of putting it lolol.

But also? I genuinely think she'd get along with Daniel. Two unapologetic amoral assholes who defiantly faced their past trauma to sacrifice themselves for the one they loved. And they both bully Armand, too!

Thank you so much for this! Apologies again for the length.

[all-things-are-nothing-to-me]

I'm gonna be real with you, chief. I'm not partaking in voting discourse anymore. I had my fill last election. As anarchists we should inherently be opposed to elections and democracy. If you think otherwise, I'm just dismissing you as a liberal and going on with my day. This'll be my only post about election season.

[makiruz]

If you pay attention to box office and movie stuff you might the Latina audiences attend a lot to anime, superhero and video game stuff like Spider-verse and Super Mario Bros; but if you're a gringx you might not know why, well I'm gonna tell you: it's because anime and shit is mainstream in Latin America, so immigrants take that to the USA; now, as to why anime is mainstream in Latin America I don't know for sure, but I think it's because local media production is limited in Latin America (in some places like my country, Costa Rica, is non-existent) so we get our stuff from outside, mostly the USA, and since we're used to media being foreign having media from a different foreign country (aka Japan) is not weird at all so folks just take it; it's why Dragon Ball is as mainstream as Bugs Bunny

I'm thinking this because I'm listening to "Der letze Tanz" from Elisabeth the musical, in German, and loving a song you don't understand a word of is completely normal here

(BTW, USA subtitle discourse sounds insane here, where many movies and shows for adults are subbed by default, and often only subbed for while because the dub takes time)

[gdelgiproducer]

Announcing... a new podcast

Welp, I’ve been off this platform for some time. If I was coming back, it’d be to promote this notion for sure. Hello, #tanzblr; breadman missed you.

Coming soon to a podcast platform near you, in the vein of Out for Blood’s retrospective coverage of Carrie and after much development (probably closer to next year than this year): 

A Good Nightmare Comes So Rarely: The Rise and Fall of Dance of the Vampires.

The pitch:

When most American theater aficionados think of Dance of the Vampires, they don't think of a show that’s run successfully for 9,300+ performances, in 12 languages, in 14 countries, bringing in an audience of over 9.6 million. They think of its brief New York run starring Michael Crawford, which was such a critical and commercial disaster that it totally eclipsed the infamous Carrie in financial loss, set the new bar for legendary flops (at least until Spider-Man: Turn Off the Dark came along), and is still widely cited as proof of the ‘wisdom’ that ‘vampire musicals don’t work on Broadway.’

20 years on, it’s time for a post-mortem. Two obsessive fans dive deep into the story behind its creation, interviewing cast, crew, creators, and detractors and fans alike who watched from the peanut gallery, as they recall all the gory details of the road to Manhattan, from the creation of the original Roman Polanski source film in the mid-Sixties to the present day.

When I say “two obsessive fans”... yeah, I’m co-hosting with ozymegdias. (As she has had significant input on my further development of the fabled ‘new English version more faithful to the European original,’ that may come up as well. We’re debating whether or not it’s necessary; I think it’s a novel hook.)

If you’d like to contribute, we’re looking for “detractors and fans alike”: enthusiasts of Tanz, of DOTV (slim crowd, but they exist), of both (even slimmer crowd, but they, too, exist), and rubber-neckers who watched the proverbial auto accident with interest, the kind of people who can offer color commentary of the “from the sidelines” variety. Get in touch!

[tanzdoesthings]

get out of this fandom 💜

this includes trans-exclusionists, radical feminists, aphobes, etc.

[tophatandboots]

Okay but at least once when Herbert has been swooping about being a brat, or just overly noisy and the Graf wants to send him into a sulk to get ten minutes of peace and quiet, he has DEFINITELY deliberately trodden on the back of his son’s cape to make him go sprawling.

[kreepykittyreturns]

I did not know we had a sukhanov fan in our midst! Thank you for starting sukhanov-lock discourse in the tanz fandom, it's about time someone did

I love Drew, Ivan, and Rostislav, but Sukhanov just sends me feral and something in my Ace brain goes "hmm yes very attractive man, very yes." I do think he's very underated and just as fantastic as a lead and he needs so much more love.

A while back when I did that whole photodump was after someone had said along the lines of "I don't get why he's a lead at all in anything. He has a fucked up face if you look close enough. The one side droops and that's not very attractive in a lead."

[themoonlily]

Can’t believe that Eomer of ALL fuckin characters is getting hate, wtf. This modern bs of blaming every problem a female character has on the men in her life or making her be this flawless, perfect, and amazing in everything creature is absolute trash and totally not feminist. Fandom has become fandumb.

Btw on a lighter note, what other Tolkien couples do you like/ship? And other fictional couples in general? Love your stories ❤️

I guess it's easier to pin the blame on the men close to her rather than look at the whole picture or others' point of view (and it’s certainly convenient for certain agendas). I myself don't see how it's useful or even truthful to use specific men of her family as scapegoats, especially when there are so many signs to the contrary. In this day and age mental health problems ought to be understood better; I'm not saying things like abuse and manipulation can't cause or contribute to mental illness, but that's hardly the case with Éowyn - except for what Gríma Wormtongue did, but he was never even mentioned in the original statement, which is surprising because he's literally right there and we have the actual text saying that he stalked her and fed his toxicity as much to her as he did to Théoden. Somehow the actual stalker is not to be blamed at all, but the people who do love her. 

But it's a delicate issue, not necessarily well-handled in discourse, and often it means individual men get thrown under the bus, no matter if they deserve it or not. Which I think feminism shouldn't be about, but I digress. And like you said, making women into perfect and flawless martyrs doesn't do any good, and it's certainly not doing them any justice in the context of their stories. Neither does it do any justice to men, and it's ignoring the larger structures of society that impact both men and women in harmful and toxic ways. In Éowyn's case, if you wanted to be one-sided and biased, you could blame her for abandoning her people in a time of great need and letting down her family, but somehow that doesn't happen. It's generally recognised she deserves compassion for the state she was in and for her circumstances, and you'd think the same would apply for her family, though they are men.

 Anyway, thank you for your message. I believe I won't be answering (publicly) more asks about this issue, because I don't want to drag it out more, but I'm happy to talk further in private messages!  I have always had a soft spot for Aragorn/Arwen, and Faramir and Éowyn are one of the most wholesome couples I've ever come across in literature; so much about them is mirrored in each other and answers to specific troubles they go through during the story. Tolkien writes a more convincing and rewarding romance between them in one chapter than some writers do in entire book series. Also I do love the story of Beren and Lúthien, it’s one of my favourite parts of The Silmarillion. Moreover, I am fascinated with the story of Andreth and Aegnor, although it’s among the most tragic of Tolkien’s relationships, and I wish there was more about them. 

Outside of LOTR, I enjoy Lizzie Bennet and Mr. Darcy, and I have to admit, I enormously liked Mary and Matthew in Downton Abbey (poor Matthew, though!). Another well-written relationship is Agnieszka/Sarkan (from Naomi Novik's Uprooted), although I'm not sure if I could be called a shipper. One of Ye Olde Goode Ships of mine is Henry and Danielle from the film Ever After (which I really should rewatch soon!). I haven't been reading or writing anything about Tanz der Vampire (a weird European musical) lately, but I still feel for Alfred/Krolock. I generally have a weakness for the Beauty and the Beast type of situation, and the Disney film was my big favourite as a kid. 

Also, this is probably going to sound weird considering what I normally post: I loved InuYasha as a teenager, and used to read the occasional fanfic years ago when I came across this brilliant story with Kagome/Sesshoumaru (titled Tales from the House of the Moon) - lo and behold, I've been a grudging shipper ever since. I don't really read InuYasha fanfiction anymore and I certainly don't participate in the fandom, but that one story I still return to now and then. 

Thanks for the ask!

[calcu-lass]

"Bathroom? Check. Singing? Check. Someone in bathtub? Check. Towel? Check. Vagina? Che- WHAT THE FUCK"

[secretmeaningofthings]

Strict Tempo 06.16.2022 (Electric Discourse) YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuYeQGBhY8Q Mixcloud: https://www.mixcloud.com/VoxSinistra/strict-tempo-electric-discourse/ Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/voxsinistra/strict-tempo-electric-discourse Rinal' 78 - Curious SLEDGEHAMMER - TERMINAL ALLES - Cokolwiek Mytron - Plaza (Nick Berlin New Beat Mix) Vector Seven - Redshift Mind / Matter - Meaningless Sentence (Arabian Panther Remix) Sim Fossil - Body Contact Black Merlin - Full Denim Jacket Dame Area - Respira  Mytron - Plaza SARIN - Paradise Mascarpone - NznzzMetal Disco - Acid Lord Termination_800 - Spec Ops (Notausgang Luv Shred Remix) Brixx ft. Black Dahlia -   Metamorphosis Ultra Sunn - Out Of The Cage Qual - VR Slaves (Alessandro Nero Remix) Gertrud Stein - Tanze samba mit Mir Damaged Clock - Soñando Con Libertad Sullen Fate - Corruption Within The KLF vs Randolph & Mortimer - What Time Is the Light? Orbital vs Randolph & Mortimer vs Crucifix - Choice_Body Death In Vegas - Hands Around My Throat (Adult Mix) Black Dahlia - Flexx BAROQUE - Siren (Meshes Remix) Renderer - Immersive Strike Parole e azioni - Chi vede nel buio ALLES - 72 Shad Shadows - The Net Dalhia - Toys Qual - Life in the Mirror (SARIN Remix) Jensen Interceptor - Faceless Mascarpone - Source Control Evil Dust - Audio Terrorism Sinus O - Electric Discourse SOJ - Brick Crash Termination_800 - Mauler Geistform - Gravitón LE FUTUR Facile - Amour

[ringvorlesungenszenografie]

Autorenfilm versus kollektive Kreation? Geniekult vs. Agile Workflow?

Vortrag von J.U. Lensing

RIngvorlesung / MI / 24.02.21 / 18 Uhr / Via Webex

Der Festivaltaugliche deutsche Film definiert sich seit den späten sechziger Jahren fast ausschließlich als Autorenfilm. Internationale Festivals und Preise huldigen dem Regisseur als herausragender Person zur Identifikation mit einem filmischen Werk. Dem gegenüber steht – gerade beim Filmschafen – die extrem arbeitsteilige Herstellung dieser audio-visuellen Werke.  

Andere darstellende Kunstformen im Bereich des Theaters, der Tanzes oder der Performances, aber auch in der Zeitkunst Musik, haben spätestens seit den späten 1960er Jahren – auch in der sogenannten ernsten Musik – andere Formen des Schafens elaboriert: die kollektive Kreation.

Jüngste Entwicklungen im Bereich der Informatik und des Game-Designs brachten neue, noch kleinteiligere Arbeitsmodelle hervor, die sich unter dem Begrif des „Agile Workings“ zusammenfassen lassen. Hier ist vom Autor im Singular keine Rede mehr, sondern es gibt sogar offene Formen in denen sich die Mitarbeiter pro übernommene Teilaufgabe jeweils in neuen Rollen selbst definieren...

Der Vortrag von Professor J.U. Lensing (Tongestaltung im FB-Design der FH-Dortmund) soll ein öffne dargestellter und damit diskutierbarer längerer Gedankengang sein, der aktuelle Diskurse im Fachbereich, aber selbstverständlich auch „draußen“ zur Sprache bringt.

//  

 Auteur film vs. collective creation? Cult of Genius vs. Agile Workfow?

Since the late sixties, festival-worthy German film has defined itself almost exclusively as auteur cinema. International festivals and prizes pay homage to the director as the most significant person to identify with a cinematic work. In contrast to this – especially in the case of film making - is the extreme division of labor in the production of these audio-visual works.

Other performing art forms in the fields of theater, dance or performance, as well as the contemporary art of music, have all elaborated other forms of creation and since the late 1960's at the latest also in so-called serious music: collective creation.

Recent developments in the field of computer science and game design have brought forth new, even more small-scale working models that can be summarized under the term "agile working." Here there is no longer any talk of the author in the singular, but there are even open forms in which the employees define themselves in new roles for each sub task they take on...

The lecture by Professor J.U. Lensing (sound design in FB-Design at FH-Dortmund) is intended to be an openly presented, (and thus inviting discussion), longer train of thought that brings up current discourses in the department, but also of course also "outside".

Note: This lecture will be coanducted in German.

[fabulousherbert]

Best way to start any day: Tanz ship discourse with @wirklichsehrnett

[askunfortunatesisters]

what about

sHOCKAPOD

weeps

[gdelgiproducer]

Possibly an unpopular opinion

Recently, on Reddit, I came across the phrase “Dance of the Vampires is barely even Tanz der Vampire” in a discussion. I debated whether or not to share this opinion in response to that general point (of which I’ve heard many variations over the years), but as somebody who’s been as close to the show as I have, I think I’ve earned the right to do so.

That opinion is: they’re really not super different.

The humor is arguably shittier in DOTV, yes (to the extent one can argue that a phallic sponge is that big a step down from, say, playing “uh-oh, it’s a booby” to discover that it’s not Chagal under the sheet), but take away the most egregious elements, and it’s not nearly as different from Tanz as people have made it out to be.

Which is not to say DOTV isn’t the worse version; it absolutely is. But it’s over-simplifying things to say that one is a brooding, sensual, dark, Gothic opera, the potential result if Anne Rice wrote a vampire musical (that worked), and the other is a campy Mel Brooks-reminiscent romp, especially when...

They stem from the same source material.

They feature largely the same score and many of the same characters and plot points, even if the portrayal of the latter is different.

Both, each in their own way, send up the mega-musical genre / format.

Both can’t really decide whether they’re fish or flesh, comedy or serious drama, and wind up being neither. (Let’s not forget... in both versions, the audience is asked to swallow “Total Eclipse of the Heart” as a serious love duet between a vampire and his potential victim at the top of Act II, sharing space with a song later in the same act where said vampire lectures us on how our greed will be our doom, monologuing about the existential pain of eternal life and of losing everything and everyone he loves. The phrase “one of these things is not like the other...” comes swiftly to mind.)

The real, salient difference is in the basic approach to each. As George Abbott, Broadway’s all-time greatest musical comedy director, once said, “If you play it for comedy, it won’t work; if you play it for real, it will.”

Tanz camouflaged its inconsistency by playing it straight, with focused, detailed direction and a (mostly) dark sense of humor. The acting style seemed to follow a principle aptly described by Keythe Farley (of the Actors’ Gang in Los Angeles) as “the height of expression, the depth of sincerity” -- in other words, an extremely sincere approach, one where the cast takes it so seriously it’s funny, but it also hurts. What comedy existed wasn’t overplayed, so that when one of the handful of emotional moments came along, it was able to hit its target. (I put this in past tense because, in my opinion, Stage Entertainment has been doing it so long that it’s gotten very watered-down; the humor now seems to be overplayed to such an extent that the more emotional moments aren’t landing.)

DOTV, on the other hand, opted for a broad, silly angle that milked every “punchline” it could, as much as possible, and it was about as focused as a nervous driver after twelve rounds of tequila.

One way is just better than another at masking the show’s flaws.

[audio-urban]

Flash Ethnography at “Soli Rave 1 Year After G20“

There is a guy in a red raincoat and a bicycle standing in the middle of the road on a traffic island. Behind his bicycle, he has a trailer, carrying a big subwoofer and a sound system. A crowd of about 40 people is around his bicycle trailer, 15 of them are dancing more ecstatic, the others less. The most conspicuous of them is a couple in the crowd which looks like the stereotypical ravers. He is wearing construction worker trousers, neon yellow with reflective stripes, a weird hat and a jungle patterned shirt. She is wearing a wide dress with flowers on them. Both of them have their faces painted. Then there are some Hipsters dancing beside them. But most of the other people are wearing black clothes. Some of them wear T-Shirts of the local football club St. Pauli. Others are wearing shirts with “FCK NZS” written on them. And again, some others are standing around those dancing people, watching them while drinking a beer.

This heterogenous peaceful dancing crowd gathered after a demonstration one year after G20-Summit in Hamburg. The G20-Summit is the Event where the 20 countries with the strongest economy in the world gather to discuss about world trade. Even though, they meet with a good aim, the summit is criticised for not changing the grievances in the world and being an exclusive group without hearing the interest of the weaker economies.

To attract attention for these problems leftish organisations from all over Europe organised huge demonstrations. Likewise, 2017 in Hamburg. But the situation in Hamburg escalated and there were riots in the streets and fights between protesters and the police and criminal offences happened on both sides. The happening I am talking about was announced to not forget the riots and the positions oft the G20 criticisers. It was called like a demonstration 1 year ago: “Lieber tanz ich als G20” which is translated to “I prefer dancing more than G20”.

The demonstration was planned not to be a typical demonstration but as a party. It consisted of 4 trucks playing techno music mixed by a DJ on each of the trucks. The demonstration started and ended at a key point of the riots 1 year before, the Neuer Pferdemarkt. From there the controversial left centre for culture Rote Flora isn’t far. And news reported, that parts of the Rote Flora team were the key organizers of the protests and riots in 2017.

The new Lieber tanz ich als G20 Demonstration was announced on facebook. It attracted our research interest as an unusual space for dance music, as it is not staying in one location, but moving through the city. We expected it to differ from most other parties which are on a fixed location in many points. One is that People cannot stand in one place just nodding with their head nor can they stay and dance. Another one is that this event is highly political. This is an interesting point, because there is a public discourse whether Techno as part of the rave scene can be political or not. On the one hand it is seen as reclamation of urban spaces and on the other hand it is seen as a place for hedonistic drug users to dance. I also expected a different drug use than in other dance events which may be caused by the fact, that the demonstration starts at daytime at 16:00 o’clock and because of the political background. The political background will also affect the composition of the participants of the event. When in normal dance events there are many unpolitical people, I expect only political people to be at the demonstration. And I expect the composition of the crowd to be in contrast to the non-participants. At this event those two groups of participants and non-participant will not be as separated as it might be the case in a dance club event. I wanted to give a special attention to the interaction of both.

For our Ethnography, we planned to observe one specific place, where the demonstration will pass. We arrived one hour before the protest march did. For our observation, we chose a critical point in last year’s protests. The Hafenstraße where the Welcome to Hell demonstration escalated. It has the advantages that there is a Bridge above the street, where we planned to stand, and that the street is quite narrow. In the beginning it was a quiet place. There is a park next to the road which is on the same level as the bridge. Many people stayed there and drank their beer, as it was a Saturday afternoon and one could see the harbour and the Elbe river from there. There was still traffic on the road, but since the park is a bit elevated above street level one had no vision to the street. The first sign of the approaching protest was the music. We were the only ones who noticed it so went to the bridge. At first four police vans passed. 20 meters behind them followed 36 police men and another 50 meters behind them was a dense wall of people holding a Banner. A few meters behind them was the first truck with music. About 100 to 200 people were around this truck. Some of them were walking normally and others were walking and moving to the music. This scene repeated 3 times for the next trucks. Only the last music van differed from the first ones, because it was the guy with the bicycle trailer, I talked about in the beginning. Behind him were only twenty people, and he was playing music from his phone. But all of them, including the bicycle guy played similar music and the composition of the crowd behind the trucks was similar. Only in the first group of protesters which were holding the banner, the majority wore black clothing and almost no one had colourful t-shirts. This group of people looked more serious compared to the other following people.

We were the first people who came to the bridge. But when the protest marched under it, the bridge was full of people. Some seemed to be journalist’s others were protesters who wanted to have a look from above and others were passers-by.

I noticed only two interactions between protesters and observers which were the opposite of each other. The first was a middle finger shown by one of the protesters in the first group. The other was a welcoming waving in the second part with the music trucks.

After five minutes the whole march passed. The bridge was empty again and also the park looked the same as before. No trash was left behind and one could not see, that anything happened.

I decided to join the march. It ended 45 minutes later, where the demonstration has begun. All the trucks turned of the music. Except the guy with the bicycle. It was not the first demonstration I participated in. I also joined the protests during the G20 in 2017. Which was good as a comparison to this year’s demonstration but since I sympathize with the protesters, my description might not be completely objective.

[diefabrikanten-liveartcoop]

Boris Nieslony spricht über die Begriffe Performance Art und Live Art: ** English translation below ** 

„Was ist Performance Art?“

Nieslony: „Der Begriff ist ein englischer Begriff und bezeichnet ab den 50er-Jahren - eine Form kulturellen Aktivitäten, die mit visueller Kunst zu tun hat. Es gab im „Black Mountain College“  –  so 1952/53 – eine Vermischung verschiedenster Künste und man konnte eben nicht mehr sagen: das ist Malerei, oder Installation, oder Musik (wie John Cage). Man hat dann für diese Form der Aufführung den Begriff Performance genutzt. Als kulturstilistischer Begriff wird er ab 1968 in den USA verwendet - da hab es einen Kulturkritiker - Willoughby Sharp - der den wirklich als stilistischen Begriff in die Kunstgeschichte und die Kunstkritik eingeführt hat. Und da hat der Begriff relativ schnell Karriere gemacht, wo bis heute jeder sagt, Performance Art oder Performancekunst. Und als Spektrum ist es sehr weit gefasst inzwischen, das einzige, was man wirklich fest definieren kann, oder sollte, wenn man Performancekunst sagt - oder Performance Art - dass da wirklich der visuelle Anteil daran der dominierende ist.“ 

„Und was ist Live Art?“ Nieslony: „Die Live Art ist im Grunde ab der Mitte der 70er-Jahre aus England gekommen, weil dort bereits schon Performance Art nicht ausgereicht hat, um das wirkliche Spektrum der verschiedenen Aktivitäten – von verschiedenen Künstlern und verschiedenen Kunstfeldern und die Vermischung dazwischen – irgendwie zu erfassen, so haben die Engländer schon relativ früh angefangen Dinge Live Art zu nennen. Und das sind wirklich zum Teil ganz verrückte Sachen wo man nicht sagen kann - ist die Dominanz dabei Musik, Theater, Sound, Tanz oder visueller Art - also im Sinne von Skulptur oder Installation - sondern das sind manchmal Aktivitäten, zum Beispiel eine wunderschöne Sache, wo jemand den Begriff Live Art verwendet hat, dass er immer in  an einem Gefängnis vorbeigegangen ist, die eine ziemlich hohe Mauer hatte, so aus Naturstein und hat er gesagt, alle sprechen immer über das Einbrechen - ich möchte mal ausbrechen! Und er hat versucht da hochzuklettern und er hat es auch geschafft dass man ihn geschnappt hat und ich weiß nicht - ein, zwei Monate musste er dann da sitzen, weil er einbrechen wollte. Und das sind so Dinge die dann in England als Live Art die Karriere gemacht haben. Spannende Sachen zum Teil.  

„Wie stehst Du zu One-to-one in der Performancekunst?“ 

Nieslony: „ „Es gibt diese One-to-one's ja schon sehr lange. Für mich stellt sich hier eine Frage, die ich für sehr wesentlich halte: gibt es in der Präsentation einer ganz bestimmten Arbeit eine gewisse Notwendigkeit, also einen Grund, warum es zu einer One-to-one-Begegnung kommen sollte oder müsste. Wenn es das gibt, finde ich das einsichtig. Es gibt auch seit den 70er-Jahren Leute die das gemacht haben. Aber der Begriff des Partizipatorischen, also One-to-one im Sinne einer sozialen, partizipatorischen Angelegenheit ist für mich etwas, das von außen an die Performance, oder Live Art herangetragen wird, das nicht mehr so klar definiert ist. Und damit hab ich persönlich große Probleme, weil die Kommunikationsebene innerhalb einer öffentlichen Präsenz – ob man das jetzt Live Art, Performance Art, oder anders nennt – spielt sich in einem visuellen oder auch anderen performativen Sprachmodus ab, der immer gleichzeitig mehrere Personen anspricht. Das ist eine Kulturtechnik. Und das ist genau das, warum Leute überhaupt für Publikum etwas tun. Und wenn man dieses Publikum ausschließt, dann fragt man sich: ist das für die Sache sinnvoll? Stimmt das Medium One-to-one in dem Moment? Für mich stimmt das meistens nicht.“  

***************** ENGLISH TRANSLATION 

“What is Performance Art?”  

Nieslony: “The term is English and is – since the 50ies - understood as a form of cultural activities concerning visual art. There was the “Black Mountain College” around 1952/53, where different art forms were mixed and you could no longer say: this is painting, installation or music. Like John Cage – therefore they started using the term performance (for this kind of mixed activities).As a term for cultural style performance art is used since 1968 in the USA. Willoughby Sharp, (an artist and critic) introduced performance art as a stylistic term in art history and art critics - from that time on it spread fast and today everybody uses it.Nowadays the term covers a wide spectrum so that the only way to somehow define performance art is to declare the visual part as the dominating part in it.”   

“And what is Live Art?” 

Nieslony: “Live art started in England in the 70s because the term performance couldn't cover the wide range of different activities from different artists and different art forms, so they started calling it live art. There are some very crazy and outstanding projects, which you can't assign to a specific art form. You can´t tell which is the dominating art form: music, theatre, sound, dance or visual art, sculptures or installations. You find some really interesting and beautiful activities, like there was a man, who came by a prison everyday and thought about the funny way, that all the people only think about breaking out of prison, but he wanted to break in … and he did it and managed to climb the natural stone wall and was arrested for one or two months… and things like those made career as live art in England. Some exciting projects.” 

“What do you think about One-to-one in performance art?”

Nieslony: “One-to-ones exist for a long time now. The essential point to me is: is there a certain need – a reason – to present a certain artwork in a one-to-one-encounter. If so, I do find it reasonable. People did one-to-ones since the 70s. But the concept of participatory, this one-to-one in a social, participatory way, is to me something external to be brought in the performance or live art and that is not precisely defined. I tend to have serious problems in that matter, because the level of communication in public presence – whether called live art, or performance art, or something else – is in a visual or performative discourse in order to address more people at once. That´s a cultural skill. That’s why artists do performances in front of an audience in the first place. To exclude the audience in that raises the question: Does this make sense? Is one-to-one-encounter the right medium in that particular moment? For me it’s just not right most of the times.”