#taz balance meta

[anistarrose]

"there's something about the dying that feels familiar" is the most implication-dense line in all of TAZ. it explains nothing, but it says everything. the sheer existentialism of it all! of having déjà vu, about dying in a time loop! you didn't think you were in a time loop before the one today — but how sure about that can you be, knowing deep down that you've died before? now who's to say the time loop you know is the only one you need to escape from? you can stop this hour from resetting if you try, but what about the year? what about the last ten years?

"there's something about the dying that feels familiar" is a comforting thing to be told. because if it's happened once before, then this time, too, you could come back. but "there's something about the dying that feels familiar" is also a terrifying thing to be told. your reality has nested layers, and you can't even see all of them. you can only try to escape the single one that you can — and hope you've changed enough, learned enough, to finally break out of the rest when their times come, too.

[identityarchitect]

why the fuck was garfield making a flesh homunculus of magnus btw. why magnus specifically??? like on a meta level. what the fuck? did griffin think magnus was gonna die first? like that's a reasonable assumption to make and it worked out perfectly but what happens if one of the other horny boys had been killed in wonderland and had to fuckinf possess a mannequin. for the rest of the arc. ???????

[yardsards]

more taz balance thoughts:

you ever think about how in real life, the names "john" and "johann" are just different translations of the exact same name

and how the characters of john and johann are foils, in a way

how both characters had their ideas spread throughout the multiverse, whose ideas were heard by everyone, who showed what power a word or a story or a song could have on the world

how john started off as a motivational speaker, meant to spread hope and satisfaction. how johann's first appearance showed him as unsatisfied and hopeless, meant to be forgotten.

how john ended up spreading hopelessness, how johann ended up becoming a beacon of hope

[jaggedcliffs]

Something that really only occurred to me near the end of the TAZ: Balance arc -- when Magnus gets stuck in the mannequin body, and it's up to Taako and Merle to take the lead at the BOB while Magnus pretends to be dead -- is that Magnus often takes over the leadership role. Not that the others defer to him, or that he orders them around, or that they never take the initiative, or that Magnus is always responsible. But in that Magnus pushes the story a little more (like sneaking in to the see the void fish), he often takes the lead in conversations (like the conversations with Lucas, or when Lucretia asks why they didn't tell her they saw a redcloak, or when they're explaining the situation to Roswell in the time loop, etc.), and, well, he rushes in.

And it worked pretty well from a character perspective. Taako, in Griffin's words, is aloof, and Merle was a little too apathetic (and also Clint wasn't very good at DnD in Balance). Magnus being a fighter means he can take more responsibility for the others' safety, like dropping through two stories of glass to kill an ogre because he feels bad Taako and Merle were electrocuted when the robot got past him.

The next arc, Amnesty, is a bit of an odd one out, since it doesn't really have the space for that same leader-type role. The three of them are split off on their own missions most of the time, so they all have to take point more. It also helps that the three balance out well when they're together -- Aubrey is fiery (heh) and outspoken, but the youngest and a newcomer to town; Duck is the powerhouse that doesn't actually want the power or responsibility; and Ned is the eldest but kind of a coward, at least at the beginning (and Thacker has too few episodes).

Then in Graduation, Travis and Griffin swap DM/leader roles. Pretty self-explanatory as Fitzroy is straight up assigned-leader-by-narrative -- again, not in a way where he orders around the others as if they really are just henchmen, or that Argo and the Firbolg do nothing on their own. But just that Fitzroy takes point every now and again and takes more responsibility for protecting his friends, like Magnus.

Overall, the character's roles seem to drive from a player perspective. Justin seems to prefer witty, fun characters rather then those ones that take point (and often ones with, uh, a unique character voice). Clint overall seems to prefer supporting classes and characters. Travis' characters, and Griffin's one so far, tend to be more be more outspoken and ready to take charge

[grumpyoldsnake]

Listening to TAZ for the first time in several years

Once again I really must ask: where the heck do these dudes pull all these heartfelt and compassionate speeches from?

[umbraastaff]

the well-written meta post is not coming together but you know like... something about blupjeans taking so long to realize they're in love, and the fact that they're essentially in a time loop... being in a type of narrative built to represent stagnation, and falling prey to that idea for a while, and then realizing they don't need to be still.

the fact that them falling in love doesn't miraculously break the time loop because they've had a big revelation. (although it does, later, save them all -- that they were able to become liches anchored to one another, and that one of those liches was the only one able to remember or warn anyone against the dangers of lucretia's plan.)

but it doesn't break the time loop! they are in this stagnation for so much longer afterward. but they love each other. the whole crew loves each other, and allows that love to grow and develop, and. this tiny huddle of people loving one another isn't what saves everyone, in the end, because it takes more than just them. it takes everyone to save everyone.

but trapped in a boat, bouncing from tragedy to tragedy, they love each other. they lift each other up and hold each other accountable. they remind one another of the weight of sacrifices and the worth of worlds. they save each other.

[buffintruder]

I love Lucretia as much as anybody can, but I think she's sort of an antagonist; not to the other characters, but to the themes.

We all know one of the major themes is the power of support from friends. You can see it in Merle's choose joy speech, and the power bear teaching Magnus that the meaning of strength is asking for help. In the climax, the thb use a machine powered by interpersonal bonds (which powered a spaceship for a whole century using the connections the crew had with each other) to summon allies and defeat the main villain.

Even before that, and probably in a less considered manner, there is no arc the thb go through without requiring the help from someone else. From helpful hints from npcs, to Hurley and Sloane doing most of the work in getting them the Gaia Sash, they wouldn't have gotten a single relic and would have died a dozen more times without the aid of others.

Now let's look at Lucretia. She shoulders the burden of saving the world completely onto herself, actively taking away the choice from the rest of her crew. Even the method she plans to stop the Hunger is incredibly symbolic; she wants to sever every bond their plane has with the world outside. She wants to isolate it. Her plan cannot work because it so completely goes against the theme of the show

[lostsometime]

Relistening to taz balance and I had a revelation:

the first time the voidfish sings? The first time we hear the notes that will become ‘egg babe’? Is immediately after Lucas was making a fuss about, like “Well what if the voidfish dies!? What if it reproduces asexually and pops out a baby voidfish?!”

They all thought Lucas was upsetting it, but actually it was trying to agree with him! He said “baby voidfish” and Fisher was trying to say “YES, THAT!”

[raspberrybluejeans]

pacing around my house like a caged animal thinking about taako and lup and barry

[andthen-light]

i must admit the comics are generally easier to enjoy when you stop viewing them as a by the book adaptation and moreso as a like. diet version of this story. i am still a blue taako hater tho

[its-your-mind]

ALWAYS rotating TAZ: Balance around in my brain like microwave but ESPECIALLY with the announcement of The Suffering Game graphic novel

The dope thing they can do (and are doing) with the graphic novel series is sprinkle in moments of foreshadowing and hints to the reader about what REALLY might be going on here, which is so cool and I’m a huge fan of it, especially when you’re telling a story in this form.

But what is REALLY FUCKING TASTY about Balance as a story is that none of the motherfuckers telling it had any clue what they were doing when they started

Gerblins is dick jokes and not knowing how dice work and making fun of each other for voices. LICHRALLY the scene where Taako grabs the Umbrastaff is immediately proceeded by Clint trying different voices for Merle while Justin begs him to stop, as Taako. Merle gets launched across the room cuz he failed his save, and now Taako has an umbrella. The scene moves on.

Griffin brought them up to the BOB, introduced them to the Director, and gave them memories of a war fought over nameless, lost, powerful but mysterious artifacts. The memory that Taako takes from it is the idea of soured cream (ya know, for his taco quest).

And then they’re off, on different adventures, making friends, saving lives, making more dick jokes, and Griffin is in the background, slowly building in the meta-plot, as all DMs do.

But this meta-plot was HUGE. It was ALL-CONSUMING. It completely changes everything we know about this world and these characters. It takes the moments of dick jokes, and arguments about character voices, and flirting with death, and adds a layer of tragedy and complexity that just wasn’t present the first time they told that story.

AND THAT’S WHY THIS STORY KICKS ASS. The vibe of the story changed as Tres Horny Boys grew closer and closer to remembering the lives they had lost, as Griffin upped the stakes, as people started dying. They still don’t know shit for most of The Suffering Game, but you absolutely could not have predicted the tone of that arc after just listening to Gerblins. It sounds like a completely different story. And so when the other shoe drops, when shit breaks bad, when it’s the end of the world… again, and they have to reclaim their Stolen Century…

It makes sense. The tone has shifted enough to accommodate that kind of change. The characters have grown (back) into themselves enough to make this work.

Because TAZ: Balance is a tragedy. But the tragedy happened before the podcast even started, and had been erased. So of course it started off with goofs and dildo jokes. Of course the three of them started being standoff-ish with each other and making light of every situation that should have had a lot more weight. They didn’t know what they had lost, and we, the audience, didn’t either. So it was easy to laugh and joke… until slowly, it wasn’t so much anymore.

Plenty of people have praised Griffin’s storytelling abilities, but I think the thing that was most impressive to me was how he took the disparate threads laid out behind the Boys on their adventures, and followed them backwards, into the story they had lost, and forwards, into the ending they earned. I fucking love that he settled on Istus as the deity to interact with them, because I don’t think there’s a better representation of the story Griffin was weaving behind the scenes of the arcs.

Story and Song wasn’t really an arc driven by dice rolls and role playing - but it wasn’t railroading either. Griffin took every story they had told, every happy ending they had fought for, and twined them around and through each other. The world was saved not because of a lucky nat 20 roll, but because every person they had helped through the story came out in force to fight beside them to save their world.

And so in the end, the Stolen Century was a tragedy. But The Adventure Zone: Balance was a story of hope, of family, of the power that just a few loveable doofuses can have when they move through the world, making friends and saving lives. So when the world was ending and they needed help, there were dozens of people waiting to hear the Story and the Song that would give them the push they needed to fight, and the hope they needed to win.

[anistarrose]

ough it's just. "the Red Robe" forcing Captain Bane to drink the poison. Barry forcing Davenport to drink the ichor. the murder scene that introduces the Red Robe as a villain, and the last benevolent action he takes towards a member of his family before they remember he's not a villain. they're bookends to each other. the man once called Barry takes control of Bane's body to kill him, hence the Red Robe enters the narrative, as a threat. then the man once called "the Red Robe" takes control of Davenport's body to help him, just like he already helped inoculate Merle and Taako — hence the real Barry enters the narrative, finally remembered as a hero. and in hindsight, it even becomes clear — he only killed Bane to protect his family, too. the initial obfuscation, and final clarification, of his intentions — to the viewer and protagonist perspectives — both come from his power to control other people, through which he makes them drink. it's recontextualization by repetition, elegantly circular storytelling — and it all comes down to some guy named Barry Bluejeans.

[fakemit]

i don’t know why but i’ve been thinking about the adventure zone a lot recently, even though it’s been about 8 years since i first started listening and 6 years since i last listened. Balance is just so gorgeous.

Anyway, loads of taz is existentially horrifying, especially in balance, we know this. A lot of the time, at least from when i remember reading a bunch of meta, the horror is the hunger, the apathy in the face of everything that becomes all consuming. Very EEAAO. But, and i’m sure this has been talked about before, the horror of the light of creation is so ingrained in the story.

Yes, obviously it’s inspiration and whatever, but it’s so uncontrollably wanted. Obviously you can imagine in the story the potential terror of being too inspired, but that’s not as textually supported. What is, is the need to get your hands on the light, from the perspective of the hunger, sure, but also the birds, and also every single other person in the story.

Even split it, and i would argue especially split up (cause we see it more) it’s so horrifying. I’m thinking specifically of the end of the eleventh hour with Isaac’s journal. Isaac didn’t actually seem like a bad man, not at all. He’s seemed disgusted with himself, but he couldn’t stop the want, for lack of a better word, the hunger. Even though he had a goal and values that were antithetical to the chalice, and getting it meant killing his best friend, he did it anyway. And when it was done he wanted to die. Imagine that, imagine needing something so bad you will throw everything away for it, even though you have no idea why.

It can be a metaphor for a million things, but i really cannot get over, strictly literally, how many lives the light just destroys. That is, of course, why Lup goes to hide the gauntlet, but still. When i was first listening i think it was easy to hear that and think of greed, but it’s not even greed pushing isaac and cyrus rockseeker to murder, it’s compulsion.

I don’t know, I just think think i skipped over how awful the light can be in favor of thinking it was just “human” greed the first time i listened.

[cryptvokeeper]

oh man I’m just in full taz graphic novel brainrot mode huh

Cuz like I’m thinking about the part of the preview where GM Griffin says something like “I’ve completely lost control of this world” and how on the cover his book is full of holes and I’m thinking like. They have the chance here to make the very concept of a GM really hurt.

like hear me out in the podcast there was always a level of meta to griffin. He didn’t exist behind the fourth wall. He wasn’t a character in the story of Balance. Taako, Magnus, and Merle didn’t talk to Griffin, Justin, Travis, and Clint did. But In the graphic novel there is a direct line of communication between the characters and what is essentially a god. And hey, gods exist in this universe, so tres horny boys take that in stride. They call him a friend, “practically family”. He’s their lovably friendly neighborhoood GM! He’s just hanging out and helping them level up, what a guy.

But at the same time, putting him behind the fourth wall nerfs him, in a way I don’t think the characters are aware of, can ever be aware of. GM Griffin is a character. He’s gone from the storyteller to part of the story. He’s the “GM”, but what does that even mean in a preplanned, structured narrative? What power does he truly have aside from being a reminder to the audience that this story you’re reading used to be a dnd game? And, on a meta level, real world person Griffin has gone on record talking about how completely the end of suffering game derailed things. Originally he planned for a whole adventure in the astral plane that arms outstretched completely obliterated.

So if you will, imagine a scenario where the boys go into the suffering game and get put through absolute hell and their friendly GM Griffin can’t do anything about it. He has no power here, not in any way that matters. He can’t control the liches or stop them. He can’t give the boys any help or healing. Imagine all that salt and anger felt during the suffering game, but instead of being good natured bitching at a son/brother/DM, it’s three mortals genuinely pleading with the supposedly omniscient entity that’s been with them the whole time, but can’t actually do anything but watch them suffer. I was ready to see the “real low” conversation illustrated as a goofy silly bit, but imagine how messed up that moment would be from Taako’s POV.

“Is it almost like some fucking liches from your imagination took my hit points away from me, a wizard? Is it Griffin?”

[nellasbookplanet]

The other day I was thinking about how now that tlovm has set a precedent maybe there'll be more actual play adaptations in the future, and naturally my thoughts went to my first love, taz balance. And I was wondering how they might approach adapting the nature of the game, and came up with 4 possible approaches:

The straightforward approach

The same as tlovm and honor among thieves; treat it as a regular fantasy story and strip away the game aspect. Include the dm by having them voice a number of npcs and leave in some meta nods for the dnd fans to pick up on.

The graphic novel approach

Utilize the same technique as the taz graphic novel adaptations. The DM is there as an actual character existing as a narrator of sorts, dice are rolled, fourth wall breaking jokes are made, the general feel of a game is there but the double nature of experiencing both pcs and players as a viewer is removed.

The Princess Bride approach

Two narratives are used: the framing narrative of the players in the real world, and the fantasy narrative with the party of adventurers. The plot skips between the two of them, sometimes blurring the line between pc and player.

The George of the Jungle approach

There is no game aspect, no dm, no dice, no meta knowledge from the characters. There is, however, an all-knowing narrator (different from various in universe gods), that makes various ominous and funny remarks, who the characters can actively hear and converse and even argue with, if they want to risk having a rock dropped on their head. Obviously, they would be staring up into an empty sky as they converse with this narrator.

Going for the straightforward approach is the easiest and least likely to fail, but removes the unique aspect of an actualplay. The graphic novel approach or the princess bride approach are fun, but I suspect would easily lean too hard into the game aspect, which wouldn’t work as well in this medium by making the characters feel more distant and less real. Thus, my conclusion is that the george of the jungle approach would be the best, especially for a story as humorus as taz. It would create a similar feel of meta awareness as the game, but by utilizing different tools more fitting for the medium. Also, it would be funny as hell.

[epersonae]

OKAY THOUGHTS NOW THAT IM NOT HIGH ON COLD MEDICINE LOL

I enjoyed it! I was waiting for an indication that ed and stede had reunited in season 2 before I started watching and im glad i did that season 1 ending would have DEVASTATED me

I really was surprised how much I enjoyed the supporting cast, every crew member is really fun. Jim is obviously My Love, I want what they have, but Olu is also such a great character, and Lucius & Black Pete, who I thought I was gonna dislike from their early banter ended up being faves

Cold Medicine and Autoplay made it really easy to sit down and watch the whole thing in one sitting but I DO think I did myself a disservice not breaking it up into chunks. I'm curious about the supernatural elements that are being introduced??? DID BUTTONS REALLY TURN INTO A BIRD??? So many questions

I look forward to being able to actually understand all the meta stuff you reblog now instead of just reading it and nodding

Black Pete has such a great growth arc, I love him so much. And yeah, the end of season 1 is rough, you can see why it hit me in a particular way!

I may be less online for reblogging metas until the last three episodes are out, because I'm avoiding spoilers to deal with Le Anxiete, but after that: watch out :D

And I'm soooooo glad you liked it! There's a lot about it that I feel like is in the same emotional range as Balance in a way that sometimes I can't always articulate, and sometimes there's a feeling of [spidermans pointing] to find a TAZ fan in the OFMD fandom.