I loved your idea for film blue & reading your response reminded me of a theory I have about the shuggy dynamic & since I love your meta I'd love your take.
Do you think Oda is trying to imply that the Shuggy fallout is not only a personal loss, but a loss for the world as a whole? There's a lot of talk lately about Shanks' personal failings with interpersonal skills & coincidentally that's where Buggy's strength lies.
In fact the Shuggy dynamic is sort of written in a way where they make up for what the others lack so I wonder if the miscommunication with them is also supposed to make us believe the world would've been better had they stuck together?
Buggy was the first of the two to recognize the danger with Blackbeard and it's when he isn't in Shanks life anymore that Blackbeard was able to hurt him. Buggy didn't rise up in the world until way later in life despite his charisma, but Shanks did fairly quickly. We can see how Buggy being a warlord/emperor is setting into motion big events at a seemingly quicker pace than Shanks ever did (intentional or not). Imagine if they had set out as co leaders way back when? Would Shanks be as passive or would Buggy's ambition & anxiety push him to be more proactive in whatever it is he's supposed to do on behalf of Roger.
With the anime finally animating the loguetown breakup/fallout and to be reminded of Buggy being pushed to reclaim his dreams because Shanks is also heading for the One Piece I'm starting to think Oda is writing them as a delayed destiny type of thing. That they were always supposed to carry on Roger's will together & the biggest mistake of the past is anyone thinking only one of Roger's apprentices was supposed to be his heir so to speak. They were supposed to be a team not rivals.
Last thing I want to bring up is how Luffy keeps being put in Shanks' shoes when it comes to his crew except where Shanks failed Luffy didn't. The Usopp conflict in Water 7/Eneis Lobby especially plays like a 2nd Shanks & Buggy fall out to me.
Not only are Buggy & Usopp both extremely insecure in their own power, but they too interpreted their friends words/actions as a slap to the face. However Luffy was able & willing to do the work to close the distance between his Nakama & resolve the miscommunication while Shanks just...gave up essentially. Being not only an example of how Luffy can do what Shanks never could, but also the new generation succeeding where the last one failed. I can't help but think when we learn Shanks & Buggy's history Oda intends for us to think about this parallel and view it as mistake.
So I wouldn't be surprised if we got at least one more reunion between Shuggy & when we do they come to this realization that they have a chance to correct the mistakes of the past and team up for something significant in terms of plot. That their destiny's lie with eachother not against.
thoughts?
I think this is the first time someone has sent me an ask that's not anonymous. This made me really happy, so thank you, and hi!
Is "I agree and disagree" a proper answer? I don't know. I think you're right in that the "evolved" (emotionally mature, post character-growth) versions of Shanks and Buggy could have accomplished a lot together. But that's just it -- in order to evolve, you have to start somewhere. It's like expecting Luffy to still be able to protect his crew the way he does now without going through the tragedy at Sabaody and Marineford. Shanks and Buggy were always fated to part, because they needed to grow separately to meet back up again as true and equal counterparts. To change, you've got to experience things that make you realize you need to change.
I think there is a world where Buggy would've followed Shanks and been on his crew, but in that world, he also would've never addressed the root of his problem: his own insecurity. He needed to go out on his own to find himself. "Would Shanks be as passive?" "Would Buggy's ambition and anxiety push him to be more proactive in whatever it is he's supposed to do on behalf of Roger?" The questions you're asking are insightful and fun thought experiments, but in my opinion, a narrative impossibility. Loguetown Buggy would never follow a Shanks that fell back on Laughtale, and Loguetown Shanks will always prioritize his idea of the "greater good." So when you say the world would be better "had they stuck together," I half-disagree, because I don't think this hypothetical world could ever exist. (Also, from an author's standpoint, it feels like cheating your way to the end without earning it -- bypassing all the juicy stuff about character writing, like the internal and external conflicts which push characters to change.)
However, the idea that they're destined to carry on Roger's legacy together is such a great idea -- I love that! It warms my heart. I've always viewed Roger's will as something split between Buggy and Luffy, but what you proposed is something I can totally get behind. And I could 100% see Oda going in that direction.
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You know, I think what really bugs me about the "Dadworth" dynamic applied to Kay and Edgeworth's relationship is that it usually makes Kay out to be this hyperactive, slight problem child (in the 'stealing and pranking' sense rather than the 'moody and abrasive' sense), occasionally with deep-rooted daddy issues like Edgeworth has, when that's... the opposite of her character.
(This post got away from me, so TL;DR: Kay is a quick-witted and independent young woman who has worked very hard to be both emotionally and practically intelligent enough to be seen as a legitimate successor to her father's legacy. Making her out to be the traits mentioned above, so she functions as Edgeworth's daughter rather than his investigative partner and equal, undermines her character and semi-conflates her with Maya [the deep-rooted issues bit]. Also I don't like it wksgskaj)
The thing about Kay is that she's not actually in the series as much as it feels like she is, which makes it easy for her character to be altered to suit the needs of the story (which I think happens in The Forgotten Turnabout, but I won't talk about that here). She turns up in two cases as herself in AAI (as in, teenager Kay whom we're most familiar with) and shares her role with Gumshoe, Ema and Franziska when she does, lessening her appearances even further. Nevertheless, there are still concrete elements to her personality that we're made aware of right from the beginning, and the first major one which I feel gets overlooked in favour of her hyperactive characterisation is this:
Kay is very, very sharp.
In terms of mainline assistants, I'd consider her the sharpest of all (maybe after Trucy? But I don't remember enough of AJ to comment on that). Yes, she's shown to be reckless and impulsive, but, when it comes to actual investigating and reasoning, she is solid. With Nick and Maya, you sometimes get the impression that they're both fumbling along until Phoenix catches on (most of the time with Maya's usually a little accidental help, and he still has to explain things to her near every time [not Maya's fault. Following Phoenix's reasoning is like being on a rollercoaster in a minecart]), but Kay is very rarely like that with Edgeworth. Within minutes of meeting him, she can predict what he's going to say (or 'steal his lines', as the game puts it), and there are several moments after he uses Logic and is about to explain what he's connected where Kay interrupts with the correct conclusion herself:
Edgeworth: A second Blue Badger that shouldn't exist... Clearly, the true identity of the person underneath is...
Kay: Oh, I know! It's one of the kidnappers, right!?
There's even a point where she tells him off for overexplaining things to her:
Kay: Yeesh, I told you I got it! Do you feel the need to explain everything!?
And, near the end of their first case together, he acknowledges that's she's generally quite quick:
Kay: OK, what should I re-create first?
Edgeworth: ...You haven't figured it out yet?
Kay: Heh, maybe I have, and maybe I haven't.
Even if you don't take these points into consideration, the fact that she comes up with a new way to use Little Thief, and knows how to use it at all actually, shows you that she's a really intelligent girl! Continuing on a bit from the point I made earlier about her being brash, Kay may be reckless, but she isn't irresponsible. Whenever she rushes into situations, she doesn't expect other people to come save her; she's quite assured that she can and will get herself out of them on her own, and, if she needs help, she asks for it in advance. She treats Edgeworth less like her guardian and more like her investigative partner:
Kay: I didn't get permission to enter Allebahst... so we're going to go gather whatever info we can over on the Babahlese side, OK!?
Edgeworth: Alright, I'm counting on you two.
Kay: Right, and I'm counting on you and Ms. von Karma to sniff out clues in Allebahst!
...
Edgeworth: A number of pieces connect in a very complicated way in this case... It's almost enough to make one completely mentally exhausted.
Kay: Let's not over-complicate matters, OK, Mr. Edgeworth? We've been so focused, like a laser, on only what seems strange and out of place... it's no wonder nothing's clicked and we haven't unlocked anything yet. But, if we think things through calmly, the answer should come to us!
There's an independence to her proactiveness that kind of forces Edgeworth to meet her on equal grounds, and this too is an element that gets lost when the Dadworth dynamic comes in because it involves making Edgeworth responsible -- or feel responsible -- for her actions and general wellbeing when Kay has never expected nor wanted that. She does things on her own terms, and she walks the path she's chosen by herself:
Edgeworth: Preposterous! On what grounds do you suspect her of such a thing!?
Shih-na: The fact that she calls the Yatagarasu. That in itself is a more elegant proof.
Kay: Ms. Shih-na.
Shih-na: Yes?
Kay: I... have no intention of taking back any of what I've said.
Shih-na: ...?
Kay: I am the Great Thief Yatagarasu. And I refuse to allow some imposter to claim that name as their own! The path of justice that my father pointed me towards... I will walk it the best I can!
Her relationship with Edgeworth works as an inverse to that of Nick and Maya's in the way that, where Nick and Maya have deep respect for one another beneath layers upon layers of playful insults and messing about, Kay outwardly respects Edgeworth first (and expects that respect to be returned) and razes him second -- that, too, never to an extent she wouldn't with anyone else or that crosses a certain boundary. Her messing with Edgeworth is shown to be more an attempt to get him to lighten up or not take himself too seriously than an act of (platonic) intimacy as it is with Nick and Maya (which makes sense because Nick and Maya have spent years together, while she's known Edgeworth for all of two weeks) or genuine obliviousness/silliness (although it definitely sometimes is). This is pretty obvious simply from the fact that she always calls him 'Mr Edgeworth', though she's perfectly comfortable calling Gumshoe and Badd, people whom she is more familiar and comfortable with, 'Gummy' and 'Uncle Badd' respectively. Also Kay, in general, is quite polite? Edgeworth calls something she said rude at one point and she gets insulted, and, when you ask for her opinion, she doesn't go 'What?' or 'What is it?', she specifically says, 'Yes?' (this changes in AAI2, which I promise I'm not discussing here) Upon meeting Oldbag, she has this exchange with her, where Kay chooses a more formal mode of address than what is actually offered:
Oldbag: My name is Wendy Oldbag. But you can call me "Wendy", or "Granny", or whatever suits your fancy.
Kay: Nice to meet you, Ms. Oldbag! I'm Kay Faraday.
She's also had moments where she calls Edgeworth out for being 'tactless', and she's shown to feel very strongly about rudeness throughout the whole game. I'm not saying she isn't mischievous or playful, she very much is, but the point is that she's really quite respectful, and this extends to her relationship with him. Her characterisation in Turnabout Ablaze, where she's considerably more excitable/high-strung than in Kidnapped, seems largely due to them chasing down Calisto Yew. Edgeworth even comments on this:
Edgeworth: Kay, you need to look before you leap. You tend to lose your cool when it comes to anything related to that woman.
Generally, though, you can tell that she was obviously raised with an adherence to certain formalities. She's not looking for another parental figure (because she doesn't need one, which I'll go into after this), but, if she was, she'd make that clear.
Kay's a very straightforward person at heart; she doesn't hide any part of herself, even the part that should be hidden (i.e. the Yatagarasu). There are points where she suggests that Edgeworth reminds her of her father, but, in AAI, she specifically mentions that it's both Edgeworth and Gumshoe who remind her of her father and Detective Badd. It's not about her seeing Edgeworth as a father figure; it's about their and her own dedication to the truth. Even in AAI2, where her comments could be read as leaning more towards the former angle, she doesn't get cut up about him not picking up on that or really paying it much emphasis at all, because it doesn't matter. The fact that he reminds her of Byrne is just that: a fact.
Returning to the point about Kay not needing/wanting another parental figure, I think it's pretty self-explanatory, but to put it succinctly: Kay has the guidance she needs without him.
To put it less succinctly, Edgeworth's possibly the worst candidate to go for for emotional support and guidance in the first place, and by the time she meets him again, she's basically processed her father's passing and has a better handle on herself emotionally than Edgeworth does (not a brag; most characters have higher EQ than Edgeworth); what she wants isn't necessarily closure for Byrne's death in the emotional sense but in the I-want-answers-to-this-mystery-that-will-restore-my-family's-honour sense. You could make the argument that Kay becoming the second Yatagarasu and shaping her entire future around continuing her father's work prove that she isn't over his death, but I don't think that's true and more of a result of conflating her with Maya a bit.
With Maya, becoming the Master isn't something she chooses; it's given to her by Misty and Mia. With Kay, it's the opposite. Kay's decision to become the Yatagarasu and pursue the truth is wholly her own, and her approach to that goal reflects that. While Maya uses her cheery, upbeat attitude to conceal a lot of self-doubt and vulnerability (and Franziska does the same with her hostility), Kay does not. Her cheerfulness is precisely who she is; it's not a mask so much as it is a distraction. It keeps people from looking at her too closely and realising exactly how capable she is, and, while I don't think it's fully intentional (again, she believes in living her life in a straightforward and upfront manner), she does imply that it's sort of her (or the Yatagarasu's) MO:
Kay: Well! By the time everyone notices, it's already gone! That's the Yatagarasu way!
Interestingly enough, this unintentional tactic of using humour and cheeriness as a distraction from her abilities makes her a mirror to Calisto Yew, who also uses her seemingly always light-hearted nature as a disguise for what she's actually capable of (Calisto's joviality is her true self, too, or at least as 'true' as she can get). The difference between them is that Calisto delights in ironically mocking the world around her, whereas Kay finds joy in life itself, and she's stronger for it.
The only part where we see Kay attempt to mask her feelings is when she's a child, and even then she admits that she feels better after crying, which, I believe, led to her becoming more open with her emotions later in life (see how her older self has a teary sprite which makes pretty frequent appearances where her younger self does not). In any case, to me, this shows that she has people in her life already who are helping, and have helped, her confront and process her trauma. She's not looking to Edgeworth to help her make sense of her father's death and she definitely isn't looking for a replacement (again, literally dedicated to continuing her father's [and Badd's] legacy). Whenever Edgeworth even gets close to becoming parental with her, she dismisses it, unless she acknowledges that she is in the wrong:
Edgeworth: ...Kay, it's not good for you to stay up late, you know.
Kay: Yes, gramps!
...
Edgeworth: ...I appreciate your sense of justice, however... I would appreciate it if you wouldn't go running into the heart of any more raging fires.
Kay: Nngh... Yes, Mr. Edgeworth... I'll try...
Despite her buoyancy and bright attitude, Kay is quite firm that she be treated as an adult (she doesn't see her cheeriness as a mark of youth; it's joie de vivre, it's who she is, and that's that), and, throughout the game, she gets annoyed when people don't respect that (her arguments with Lang are largely over how he calls Little Thief a toy and her crow-girl). She holds her own and relies on herself while being unafraid of asking for help.
Anyway, this post has gone on for long enough and I think I've addressed the points I wanted to. I should mention that I realise that a lot of how many people portray/interpret their relationship is validated by AAI2 but that's honestly a discussion for a separate post HAHA I feel like, when it comes to AAI, the father/daughter interpretation can maybe be argued with regards to the way Edgeworth treats her? Honestly, though, I think he'd treat any young lady who suddenly becomes part of his team/responsibility in pretty much the same way. And, like, he drops the ball almost every time he's supposed to give "fatherly" advice because he's just not that great with it/children!! It's actually hilarious HSKSDHSK
Either way, yeah! I just think Kay is actually given a lot less credit than she's due when the Dadworth card gets played and I just! Want better for her!!
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