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comicteaparty · 4 years

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July 13th-July 19th, 2020 CTP Archive

The archive for the Comic Tea Party week long chat that occurred from July 13th, 2020 to July 19th, 2020. The chat focused on Super Galaxy Knights Deluxe R by snuffysam.

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Chat:

Comic Tea Party

BOOK CLUB START!

Hello and welcome everyone to Comic Tea Party’s Book Club~! This week we’ll be focusing on Super Galaxy Knights Deluxe R by snuffysam~! (http://sgkdr.thecomicseries.com/comics/)

You are free to read and comment about the comic all week at your own pace until July 19th, so stop on by whenever it suits your schedule! Discussions are freeform, but we do offer discussion prompts in the pins for those who’d like to have them. Additionally, remember that while constructive criticism is allowed, our focus is to have fun and appreciate the comic! Whether you finish the comic or can only read a few pages, everyone is welcome to join and chat with us!

DISCUSSION PROMPTS – PART 1

1. What did you like about the beginning of the comic?

2. What has been your favorite moment in the comic (so far)?

3. Who is your favorite character?

4. Which characters do like seeing interact the most?

5. What is something you like about the art? If you have a favorite illustration, please share it!

6. What is a theme you like that the comic explores?

7. What do you like about the comic’s story or overall related content?

8. Overall, what do you think the comic’s strengths are?

Don’t feel inspired by the prompts? Feel free to discuss anything else that interested you!

carcarchu

I'm only 5 pages in so far, but this comic has a great sense of humour i've already laughed out loud at some of the jokes

Deo101 [Millennium]

god yes the jokes all hit so well

carcarchu

i noticed an error on tapas, page 42 and page 45 are identical

Deo101 [Millennium]

oh no

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

@carcarchu fixed, thank you for pointing that out!

carcarchu

i'm 63 pages in now and i'm really enjoying this comic so far. it's solidly paced with an interesting cast of characters. the banter is really fun to read and i'm loving how the world building expands with each new character introduced

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

glad to hear it!!!

shadowhood {SunnyxRain}

Damn I feel bad for only reading this now

I love the comedic pauses in between the jokes, and it makes the situation more awkward and hilarious for me!

Also fourth wall breaking and lampshades

Feather J. Fern

I really like the line "I can't hear you from over there." Lampshading why people monologue but they are stepping away from the listener

I really enjoy these types of jokes, this comic has really good comedic timing.

Also It is long, but easy to digest, so I'm speeding through quite easily.

Also Sir Pokes a Lot!! My favourite character, and you killed them! (I love the animated parts of the comic too)

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

thank u!!!

and yeah, sorry about sir pokes-a-lot

Deo101 [Millennium]

Can not wait for y'all to meet my fave

shadowhood {SunnyxRain}

Wait WHAT SIR POKES A LOT DIES WHAT THE HELL

Oh yes, the animated parts always get me by surprise and I love them too

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

imo, there's an even sadder death in book 2...

RebelVampire

I like that the beginning just has a lot of comedy even while establishing the exposition parts. So you don't really even notice you're learning about characters, the world, and so forth, because the jokes just really make the entire experience vastly entertaining. My favorite moment in the comic is probably now when all the governors show up and Electric Zebra to fight the demon. Cause it was like a party of badasses, had lots of great comedy, lots of great fighting, and just all around it was nice to see everyone else embrace Mizuki's strengths too. My favorite character is a tie between Electric Zebra and Sword Warrior/Taci. Electric Zebra because I love that he works for the gov but also hates the gov while also moonlighting as a musician. He just all around is a fun character for me who could do no wrong. Taci I like because he's simultaneously arrogant, smart, caring, and selfish. I also like that he just blatantly announces his plans to become dictator. As for the art, I really love the colors. The entire comic is just a really colorful experience without being over-saturated, and I really think that makes it stand out, regardless of the other 3D aspects and such that make it stand out as well, of course. I like in the current book it explores the nature of making friends. Since Mizuki is trying hard to make friends with Stella, and Stella isn't having that. So I enjoy this exploration in terms of kind of what do you even do in those situations and how can you peacefully co-exist and overcome that grump gap.

As for the overall related content and the comic's strength, these are one in the same for me: the comedy. This is by far one of the few comic's that clicks for me in terms of comedy. Not only does it have fantastic timing, but a lot of it is really smart with lots of callbacks to things that happened - and damn do I love that sort of continuity. It's not even just the one-liner jokes though. Sometimes it's just the stories overall way of solving problems in comedic ways that is the best, so all in all, just a great entertaining comic.

Krispy §[Ghost Junk Sickness]§

The dialogue is so funny to go through, I love the way Snuffy characterises and just has fun!

also the cell shaded rendering is so cool! I love the aesthetic and design !

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

@RebelVampire regarding continuity stuff, this is basically the ending of book 2 lmao(edited)

mathtans

Hm, so this is somehow a trickier one for me to analyze since I've been reading it since the first CTP. Admittedly I fell behind after Book2 (busy months) but I just got caught back up (SpaceMySpace...) so I guess I'll do some further pondering and check back in later. ^^

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

ok so i finished re-reading my comic the only joke that made me legit laugh out loud this re-read was the dancing in panel 3 of this page: http://sgkdr.thecomicseries.com/comics/255 just because i completely forgot i put that gag in there lol

tbh my favorite character in the comic is taci. like, before his introduction, the comic was incomplete, in a sense. but with him in the picture, all the writing just fits together. (even past the fact that books 3-5 wouldn't happen without taci being a total weirdo who mailed hundreds of letters to the galaxy knights under fake names, lol)

Deo101 [Millennium]

taci is also my favorite,,, as you know, aha

Comic Tea Party

DISCUSSION PROMPTS – PART 2

9. Given the comic’s emphasis on comedy, what was your favorite joke insofar? What made it stand out to you compared to the others? In what ways does the comic’s comedy stand apart from other comics?

10. What do you think of Mizuki’s tactics for using magic? Is she crazy as many characters imply, or do you think she’ll continue to make it work far into the future? How will this decision affect her skills as a strategist?

11. What do you think King Zebugu is doing participating in Galaxy Knights trials? Do you think he’s finally changed his ways, or is he up to something? Also, will this help Taci achieve his own goals?

12. Do you think Mizuki will be able to become a Galaxy Knight? If so, what other trials will she have to work through? Additionally, what will become of some of the other characters such as Stella, Taci, and Pejiba in the trials?

Don’t feel inspired by the prompts? Feel free to discuss anything else that interested you!

Deo101 [Millennium]

Okay my favorite joke so far was DEFINITELY this one, it's the first one I think that really made me like, fully laugh out loud. I dont know why it got to me so much. Also it made me love cahe very much as well.

SPOILER

Also I think Mizuki's magic probably IS something to do with her abillity to copy other's magic really easily, and probably more efficiently.

and kinda combo of 11 and 12 but I hope they all become galaxy knights and be friends :)

(including king zebugu)

back about the magic thing I KNOW weve been told anyone can do any magic, it's just very draining and hard, so they use their own magics always... but People have also commented on her ability to actually utilize other's magics SO i feel like theres more to it than just her being incredibly stubborn.

RebelVampire

I'm sorry Cahe. You used to be my #2 fave character, but then Taci.

Deo101 [Millennium]

LITERALLY SAME

RebelVampire

My favorite joke changes each reading, but right now I'm gonna go with Book 2 when Mizuki is remarking about forgetting something important and then we see Enetoro still stalling for the talent show. It was such great timing since it was long enough most readers probably forgot about it in the front of their mind but still recent enough you're like oh yeah. And I just like that long ass joke setup for the entire book. As for how the comic's comedy in general stands apart, just superior timing. A lot of comedy is about timing, and this comic is just spot on everytime. As for how Mizuki uses magic, it's probably a bit of both. She is crazy, but she will probably make it work for a long time to come just out of sheer force of will and stubbornness. But I think her having to learn so many abilities and find ways to utilize them together can only increase her skills as a strategist, since it allows her to assess the full potential of every ability and command others to reach that potential. King Zebugu is probably up to something again. I don't think he's as evil in the first books, but I def think there's something going on that he isn't telling anyone that he'll reveal towards the end and say, "Well good luck Mizuki peace out." I don't think it'll help Taci though. I think Taci will just wind up getting roped in and never get even one step closer to becoming the dictator he always wants to be. I do think Mizuki will become a Galaxy Knight. As for other trials, I'm not entirely sure. I imagine there's gonna be some sort of tournament arc though cause otherwise how is Stella supposed to say something about how this is a true contest for warriors. I think Stella will befriend Mizuki, and Taci will at least win something he can brag about. I think Pejiba won't win though, but I also think Pejiba would be content to try again and just go back to skipping around with Cahe.

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

There's... somewhat of a tournament arc coming up? The structure is gonna be weird compared to other tournament arcs, but it's definitely one of the more interesting chapters I've written lol. So... have fun speculating on that for the next three years lmao

Regarding some of the other questions - there's currently enough information in the comic to figure out all the 11th-hour plot twists for Book 3. I won't say there's enough information to easily figure the plot out, lol, but you could figure it out. Though - there is absolutely something going on that King Zebugu isn't telling anyone about (it's kind of a habit at this point, lol).

mathtans

1. You know something I like about the beginning? The links to the original artwork. It's just a subtle thing down at the bottom, but it simultaneously shows the progress made by the artist, and allows anyone thinking 'wow I could never do anything like that' to realize that it didn't happen overnight.

Also the gradual world building is really well done. You don't get too much at once.

2. I think my favourite moment remains how Mizuki defeated Zebugu near the end of Book 1. It was just really clever in terms of reincorporating something subtle (the comic's good at that in general) to turn the tables, and played off his personality more than his magic, which was also clever. There's lots of other great moments too, but that one stands out over time, I think because we were looking at a climax there.

3. Favorite character is probably Zaxaty. Yeah, yeah, mathtans going for the major lesbian, big surprise, but hear me out. She's connected to the King, a major antagonist, but has her own personality and I don't think she's afraid to slap him down if needed. She might even end up connected to the major protagonist (because of reader ships). She's into art, there's that whole bizarre roller skating thing just to point out she's not normal. I possibly enjoy hairstyles like hers. And she sustained major injuries in the big Book 2 battle but sucked it up and still did what she could. So there.

(Before Zaxaty it was probably Pejiba. She seemed smart and capable.)

4. Character interaction... possibly Mizuki and Taci, simply because I tend to enjoy their interactions with everyone else in the cast. So when they get together, whew... possibly related, Mizuki has a tendency to be oblivious due to inexperience or failing her perception checks, while Taci can be oblivious because he's so full of himself. Their battle and the Sword Warrior revelation was another good moment overall.

5. Again, I'm hardly a person to be commenting on art. But the rendering effects and the occasional animated panels kind of blow me away.

(Not the first person to remark on that, admittedly.)

6. I'm not great with themes either. Perseverance is probably one, based on what/who Mizuki has to put up with. Also friendship, which Rebel referenced, and can even be seen in the earlier bits with the group coming together (Cahe and Pejiba taking it to the next level). And how those in power aren't necessarily the best at decision making (is that a theme)?

Then there's mystery, like what are peoples' goals. Is that a theme? I don't know what I'm talking about, let's face it.

7. Something about the story and content is how much development's gone into it. I don't know if the side stories were started in part due to StArt Faire, or if it provided some perpetual motion, but for example Gynu and Suzigu have this entire childhood backstory in there, and we never saw that much of them in Book 1. (Maybe that one was to highlight more Galaxy Knight stuff? But there's others that expand on otherwise minor characters.)

Then there's the cast page, which seems to be constantly updating, and includes extra random trivia and even what seem like really really minor characters (like the Ferryman).

I have no clue how snuffysam manages to do all that stuff and yet continue to update multiple times in a week. With, as Rebel pointed out, very good comedy too, both situational and connected to character personalities.

8. Comic strength is I think at times doing the unexpected. Like throwing in animation, or referencing someone new or something that adds new pieces to the magic dynamic. Like you want to keep reading to know what comes next because even if it's what you think it might be, there's probably some new aspect you didn't expect that will be there too.

Anyway, there's some thoughts, and for all I know it's similar to stuff I already said in a previous chat. If so, whoops. More tomorrow. I type slow.

(Incidentally, related to the stories, the "wingwomanicon" story won't load for me... it's a blank pdf. And the link in the story proper for when it first went up seems to link to the wrong story.)

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

@mathtans I really should test my links lol... the story should be fixed now

Comic Tea Party

DISCUSSION PROMPTS – PART 3

13. What are you most looking forward to seeing in regards to the comic?

14. Any final words of encouragement for the comic?

Don’t feel inspired by the prompts? Feel free to discuss anything else that interested you!

mathtans

9. I'm not sure I could pick a favourite joke. Mizuki's habit of breaking the fourth wall tends to be cleverly done. Coruby's wit matches well with his character. I'll echo what Rebel said about the timing too; there's effective use of beat panels and the like too.

10. Mizuki's probably crazy, or perhaps it's more her obliviousness, but she's very good at working with what she has to minimize the drain. She also must have a really good memory. I think the main problem with her ability to strategize is she's not great at long term planning, everything seems to be more "in the moment".

(I figure you've got a lot going on as is there. ) Sorry, must scamper again, back later. Should we comment on ships too here, or is that mostly covered by the comic itself?

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

Hey, you can comment on ships as much as you want!

mathtans

Zebugu and Taci might be a ship. Can't be that much animosity without deeper feelings somewhere, right?

RebelVampire

I can't decide how I feel about Zebugu/Taci. That is a ship that makes sense as much as it doesn't make sense. I am stuck in a loop.

I am looking forward to more Taci because Taci. There can never be enough Taci in the comic, and I think I just really enjoy how he works off Mizuki because it offers lots of beautiful comedic potential. My final words are just amazing comedy comic that everyone should check out.

mathtans

11. I think King Zebugu is in the trials in part because he doesn't like that his wizard and his accountant were former Galaxy Knights. Maybe it's the ace they play to get him under control at times, maybe they don't need to, but I think he's trying to gain more power over his underlings, and by extension the planet. He's always got an angle. As to Taci, for him it's probably more ego driven, but he does have two abilities so maybe he wants to see how he compares off planet. I don't see either of them winning, I see them potentially cancelling each other out so the other guy doesn't win.

12. I think Mizuki could become a Galaxy Knight, but I don't think it'll happen in Book 3. In particular Bily is being set up as an antagonist against her (she has a similar ability to duplicate the spells of someone else, though she does need to touch them AND she has a beef with Mizuki over being the one to knock her brother out of contention). Other trials, I'm not sure... there might be one where they have to team up with someone else. Mizuki and Stella would be an interesting situation, as would Taci and anybody. I don't think Motorcycle Man or Willpower-Copy Lady will get far since the cast page only gives them minor character status. But then that could be part of the joke in the end.

Rebel's analysis regarding the others looks pretty good, actually. I'm not sure how hammer guy fits in, is one thing.

Fun that Stella's officially out now, incidentally. I don't see her going for shorter women though. Also, I wonder what constellations she might have that are in no way tied to the stars as we know them? And for that matter, she made a "Frozen" reference, which is usually Mizuki's domain. Perhaps she's also aware of the 4th wall (or "Frozen" went international there on 'SpaceMySpace' or something). Anyway.

13. Well, that last Starstuff Story is only one page long, so potentially looking forward to reading the rest of that. Seeing how the tournament plays out will be interesting... I'm more hyped about it than the gatherings plot of Book 2, maybe it's the extra title drop, dunno. Also vaguely curious about what's happening with everyone back on the planet during this time... like, if the King's away, who's running the place? (Zaxaty?)

Incidentally, the Galaxy Knights must be pretty well off financially. They set up housing and roommates for EVERYONE, then almost right away had a challenge and eliminated most of the people. Like, a lot of those rooms they didn't need.

Random question too, how DID the Starstuff stories get their start?

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

@mathtans I dunno how I keep screwing this up... anyway, I checked, and the newest story is now 100% fixed.

The original reason for Starstuff Stories was to flesh out characters' move pools for potential video game adaptations. Like, that's why Green Archer uses explosive arrows and chain arrows in her story, and why Chill Bro has ice armor in his. Though it evolved over time to just being interesting stories that I wanted to tell that wouldn't necessarily focus on Mizuki.

mathtans

Sorry, was needed elsewhere. Then read the story. I didn't expect ears to be a thing, and that poor woman is cursed. ^.^ That's a neat origin idea, I hadn't thought along those lines. Looks like the story has evolved too, there's been some scenes without Mizuki too (though I guess they were in some way related).

14. For final words, just keep at it I guess, you've got a very interesting world set up and do well at engaging your audience too, from what I can tell.

Deo101 [Millennium]

Zebugu/taci huh...? I can see them being exes or something

mathtans

Maybe that's the real reason Taci wants to kill Zebugu.

Deo101 [Millennium]

Zebugu forgot to tell taci they broke up, and stood him up!

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

That does sound like something Zebugu would do...

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

also, regarding something @mathtans said - Looks like the story has evolved too, there's been some scenes without Mizuki too (though I guess they were in some way related). yeah i had to rewrite book 3 like two times before I realized the story worked better if it didn't focus on mizuki all the time. like, book 3 introduces the most new characters out of any book so far, and i was completely neutering it by forcing all their arcs to relate to mizuki in some way. thanks to breaking that mentality, i'm able to include stuff like characters having rivalries with each other in ways that mizuki wouldn't even find out about, which helps keep the book from getting bogged down imo.

mathtans

It's cool that you draft everything out to that extent. And it's not out of the blue, she wasn't there for some of the big battle ending Book 2 either.

(Or at the talent show for most of the story. )

Comic Tea Party

BOOK CLUB END!

Thank you everyone so much for reading and chatting about Super Galaxy Knights Deluxe R this week! Please also give a special thank you to snuffysam for volunteering the comic and creating it! If you liked Super Galaxy Knights Deluxe R, make sure to continue to support it via some of the links below!

Read and Comment: http://sgkdr.thecomicseries.com/comics/

Super Galaxy Knights Deluxe R’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/Galaxy_Knights

#ctparchive #comics #webcomics #indie comics #comic chat #comic discussion #book club #bookclub #webcomic book club #webcomic bookclub #comic tea party #ctp #super galaxy knights deluxe r #sgkdr #snuffysam

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crampdown · 5 years

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Cramp’s Comic Recommendations For Fans Of Classic Rock And Co.

Allright here we go. This is my current list of comics/manga/graphic novels you might enjoy if you’re into classic rock. Before we get started I’d just like to let you all know:

- This list is far from being complete. I’m sure there are many more groovy comics out there that I’m simply not aware of yet so if you have any suggestions feel free to add them :)

- I know I said “Classic Rock” but some of my choices may drift into other musical directions

- Needless to say I do not own any of the following images. They all belong to their rightfull owners and I’ll use them as visual reference material only.

- Sorry for eventual misspelling

Let’s go ^^

1. Bob Dylan Revisited

Let’s start with an obvious choice. This is a collection of 13 well-known Dylan Songs, each of them graphically interpreted by a different artist. The most striking feature therefore is the high variety of different art styles. Some of them are cartoony, some are very abstract while others are almost photo realistic.

Dylan’s mesmerizing lyrics have always been inspirational and these beautiful depictions truly are a sight to see.

Including works of Thierry Murat, Lorenzo Mattotti, Nicolas Nemiri, François Avril, Jean-Claude Götting, Christopher, Bézian, Dave McKean, Alfred, Raphaëlle Le Rio, Maël Le Mae, and Henri Meunier, Gradimir Smudju, Benjamin Flao, Jean-Phillippe Bramanti and Zep.

Zep’s take on “Not Dark Yet”

Jean-Phillippe Bramanti’s interpretation of “Knocking On Heaven’s Door”

Definitely worth checking out not only for Bob Dylan Fans.

2. Baby’s In Black” by Arne Bellstorf

I’ve seen several people in the Beatles fandom complain about the lack of Stuart Sutcliffe material when it comes to early Beatles history.

Well, here it is: a graphic novel that focuses on the relationship between Stuart Sutcliffe and fotographer Astrid Kirchherr who took the very first professional photos of the Beatles during their time in Hamburg (1960-61).

Told mostly from Astrid’s point of view this comic presents itself in a grey and melancholic tone that fits the rather sad story. Bellstorf’s drawings are simplified and charming (they remind me of early sixties children book illustrations which suits the setting’s time period)

If you’re interested in early Beatles history (especially their Hamburg days) you should give this one a try.

3. Blue Monday by Chynna Clugston Flores

I really wish I had known about this amazing comic series a few years earlier, not only because this is a slice of life/coming of age story with teenage characters who are actually likeable and relateable but also because “Blue Monday” is an overall highly entertaining depiction of early nineties teen culture/rebellion in an American suburb that comes with a lot of references to Britpop, mod culture, Buster Keaton movies and Adam Ant (to name only a few).

To quote the author herself: “It’s like Archie on crack, with cursing and smokes”.

The art style of Chynna Clugston Flores is very vivid and expressive and has a certain stylistic touch of anime/manga (like a lot of comics from the early 2000s). I also really enjoy all of the graphic fashion details in this one. Plus, this is the first comic with it’s own soundtrack and that’s always a nice bonus.

I’d recommend “Blue Monday” for fans of Britpop, Punk, New Wave and early 1990′s culture.

4. Punk Rock And Trailer Parks by Derf Backderf

Another story about growing up in American small town madness, this time set in 1980s gritty Punk subculture of the former rubber city of Akron, Ohio. Protagonist Otto who likes to refer to himself as “The Baron” becomes fascinated with Punk after attending a Ramones concert. He meets several Pubk icons (thus as The Clash, The Plasmatics, rock journalist Lester Bangs and many more) and becomes someting of a local punk star himself.

Derf Backderf (who is best known for his highly acclaimed graphic novel “My Friend Dahmer” and his Eisner award winning comic “Trashed”) created a comic that is as “raw and dirty as punk itself”. His art style is an unique combination of expressionism, underground cartoons and punk magazines.

“Punk Rock And Trailer Parks” is a must-have for punk fans (especially if you’re into The Ramones and The Clash. It made me a huge fan of both of them).

5. “CASH - I See A Darkness” and “Nick Cave - Mercy On Me” by Reinhard Kleist

Two biographical graphic novels by Reinhard Kleist, both of them tell the story of a fascinating personality in rock history and both of them are incredibly well drawn. Kleist’s art is full of life and movement and very atmospheric due to his impressive use of stark contrasts.

I personally love his semirealistic way of drawing people and I’d highly suggest you to check out his other works too. He made a lot of biographical comics that really amazed me.

CASH

Cave

Definetly worth reading. Not only for Johnny Cash and Nick Cave fans.

6. Nowhere Men by Eric Stephenson, Nate Bellegarde, Jordie Bellaire and Fonografiks

I talked about this one a while ago but I’ll gladly do it again since it’s just too cool. “Nowhere Men” is set in an alternative past/present and future where scientists became as popular as pop stars (catchphrase “Science is the new Rock n` Roll”) but somewhere along the way something definetly went wrong.

The hype of science shares obvious similarities with the beatlemania of the 60s and the founding of Apple back then. Furthermore, the characters are partly inspired by well-known personalities of Rock history. There are many more or less hidden nods and references to musical popculture wich is why I put it on this list.

Nowhere Men is a thrilling sci-fi dystopian that requires an observant reader because there is a lot of jumping back and forth i time and inbetween information. The art style is realistic and full of very vibrant colours.

I found myself reading this multiple times to get all of the details in the world building. A thoughtful and brilliant writing indeed.

7. P.I.L. by Mari Yamazaki

Japan 1983: 17-year-old Nanami couldn’t be more frustrated. Her grandfather loves to spend all of their household money on useless luxury junk and her strict school criticizes her messy hairstyle. Caught between teenage rebellion and responsibility as she tries different side jobs to earn at least a little bit of money, Nanami also has a thing for punk music and overall everything originated from England.

P.I.L. tells the story of conflict between two generations who aren’t as different as they might seem. Sometimes funny and heartwarming, sometimes with a bit of drama this is a charming slice of life/ coming of age josei with a more simplistic but aesthetical pleasing art style.

as the title might suggest, Nanami is a big fan of P.I.L. and other bands of the punk, neo punk and new wave movement such as The Stranglers and The Killing Joke

8. Yellow Submarine by Bill Morrison

A comic adaptation of an animated film such as Yellow Submarine? Yeah, I was skeptical at first too but hear me out: This is really great. Morrison did an amazing job at capturing the trippy and psychedelic feeling of the legendary Beatles film. As the 1968 film used the medium of animation as an actual form of art to accomplish things only animation can do, Morrison did the same thing and used the advantages of the comic medium to accomplish things only comics can do. And it works. It really works.

Every single page of this colourful book has a different panel layout. Some of them are so beautiful and creative that I’d love to have a full-size poster version of them :’D

If you liked the film, if you love the psychedelic age, you’ll probably like the comic too.

9. In The Pines by Erik Kriek

“In the pines, in the pines, where the sun never shines...”

5 Murder Ballads, some might call them dark Country Music, each of them beautifully illustrated by Erik Kriek. Atmospheric, dark and gritty and always on point to match the spine-chilling western-like storytelling of these ballads, great for fans of horror literature a la E.A.Poe.

10. Andy - A Factual Fairy Tale by Typex

Allright folks this is it:

Typex’s “Andy” is by far one of the best comics/graphic novels I’ve ever red. It defenitely is my personal favourite reading of 2019 (and tbh I kinda doubt anything will top this anytime soon)

This is more than just a biographical take on of the most enigmatic pop-art artists of 20th centuary’s America, this is a portrait of the 20th centuary itself. There are so many references to art, history, literature, music and more that I could fill a book counting them all. And of course this is a monument for the medium of comic itself. Typex really managed to show what comic’s are capable of (At this point I’m really sorry I can’t explain it better I’m not good in writing stuff like this yet...)

Visually one of the most appealing things are the different art styles Typex manages to pull off so well for every chapter in Warhol’s life because each of them are a mirror of their zeitgeist. The introduction of Warhol’s childhood during the 30s is drawn in a cartoony style of old news paper comic strips. The chapter of 1967 has a psychedelic edge. The chapter of the early 60s shows similarities with the works of Roy Liechtenstein

So many icons from the 1930s-1980s have a cameo in this graphic novel it’s just amazing. If you’re even remotely interested in anything of this time period you’d definitely should read this. (seriously, READ THIS). But at this point I’d also like to mention that this comic does not shy away from showing very explicit content and sensetive topics (please keep in mind this has a mature rating for a reason)

Yeah so I couldn’t give this piece of art enough praise. It is absolutely brilliant, a masterpiece in every sense and word.I wasn’t too aware of Typex before but appearentely he also did a graphic novel on Rembrandt. I’m gonna read this too.

Some honorable mentions:

California Dreamin` by Penelope Bagieu

I haven’t red this one yet so I can’t say anything more about it. But I wanted to let you know that a graphic novel about the life of Cass Elliot exists.

Before Watchmen: Silk Spectre by Darwyn Cooke and Amanda Conner

One of the prequels of the legendary “Watchmen” by Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons. It’ “only” an honorable mention because you’ll have to be familiar with the Watchmen universe to fully get all of the story. This prequel focuses on Laurie Jupeczyk, the second Silk Spectre and her own adventures during 1967, the summer of love in San Francisco.

Hip Hop Family Tree by Ed Piskor

Another one I haven’t fully red yet, but so far I’m loving it. It basically tells the history of Rap and Hip Hop from the early 70s to the mid 80s. The art style is intentionally old-school wich really fits it’s tone and setting.

Fritz The Cat by Robert Crumb

I suppose I can’t make a list like this without at least mentioning an absolut icon of the underground comix movement. Crumb created the adventures of this nasty junky cat during the 60s. Fritz can be seen as a satirical mirror of counter-culture’s zeitgeist.

and speaking of Crumb, his “Heroes of Blues, Jazz and Country” trading cards are neat too...

allright that’s it for now. like I said, if you have anymore suggestions, feel free to add ^^

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leonisdumbasallhell · 5 years

Note

Do you have advice for someone who wants to make comics?

Yes! This is my advice!

okay real advice

1. JUST DO IT

MAKE A COMIC!!! It doesn’t have to be perfect, it doesn’t have to be technically good! It can be some stick figures and some word bubbles all that matters is you make it!! All you need is some paper, a pencil, and a story and your set! The only way to start doin something is to do it so make your first comic!! and then make more!!

2. Read Scott McClouds Books

If you are interested in comic theory and history and technical stuff, check out Scott McClouds books, Making Comics and Understanding Comics. I’ve been in school for comics and tbh, most of the stuff I was taught in school was stuff I already knew either from experience or from these books.

3. Study Film and cinematography

comics are just a really slow movie, when you design pages, think about them like a film. Most shots in comics match up with film, you got ur long shots, ur mid shots, ur close ups, ur super close ups, ur dutch angles, all that jazz. Once you have an idea of cinematic theory, then you’ll start to get a better understanding of storytelling through sequential images. And even some film techniques that might seem like you can’t do them in a non moving medium are feasible in a comic, like a long take, You can mimic the feel of a long take by having a single wide panel that your characters traverse through with out any edges or gutters. Or if you want to linger on something and really dial in on the emotion, you can do a short sequence where you focus on the minute changes in a characters expression or the environment. Like, a lot of film transfers over to comics and vice versa, there’s lots of videos about it on youtube analyzing different directors and how they do shots, but also videos about what NOT to do and what makes for a bad film.

4. Think about text.

Comics don’t need text, there are plenty of silent comics, but many comics involve the implimentation of text. IT’S SUPER IMPORTANT TO THINK ABOUT HOW UR GONNA IMPLEMENT UR TEXT! when you’re planning think about where the text is going to go, what font/hand lettering style you plan to use, all that jazz. Cause it’s easy to get caught up in the art and forget about the words, I’ve made like, 150+ pages and I still do this sometimes.

6. Read comics!

A lot of what I do comes from stealing panel layouts and shots from other people, wether that be from film or from other comics. If you want to check out one of the most well done and polished comics ever made, check out Matt Fractions Hawkeye, specifically the David Aja issues. The way Aja illustrates a page is masterful and even outside of comic nerds, is absolutly worth the read even if you aren’t into super heroes (hawkeye was already my favourite before I read these and I will never forgive the MCU for what they’ve done to him) but there are lots of other comics and graphic novels out there! Here’s just a few I really love and regularly steal from, Laura Dean Keeps Breaking Up with Me, Bloom, Maus, Saga, Full Meta Alchemist, Nimona, Fun Home, and My Lesbian Experience with Lonliness. When you read them really pay attention to the way the artist/author formulates the pages, everyone has their own system for layouts, some people have formulaic grids that they do for every page (MLEwL has an exclusive 3 wide panel layout that rareley, if ever, change, where as LDKBUwM have more fluid panel lay outs with floating panels and variations in gutter width to express time and mood, Aja uses a more grid layout and almost never breaks edges which give his a more rigid feel that goes well with his ink block art style) For TWSHLB, I have a p strict 6 block grid rule set i follow for layouts, which i do mostly for time because I don’t thumbnail it, I just go. But yeah, read comics, think about comics, really really look at what you like in a comic and what you don’t and figure out why. and then steal like a fiend.

7. Turn ur fav fics into comics

If you want to start making comics but don’t know what to write about, pic your favourite scene from your favourite fic and turn it into a comic (also show the author, they love that) It’s good practice, it’s super fun, AND it makes authors real happy! Another thing you can do to practice is taking scenes from movies and turning them into comics, paying attention to the shots that are used and when.

okay, TLDR:

If you want to make a comic, then make one. the hardest part of doing comics is starting. It’s scary and kind of daunting, it’s hard! A lot of people don’t start making comics cause they’re scared they’ll make a bad one, and here’s the thing. Your first comic is gonna be wonky, it’s not gonna be technically perfect. But you made it! You made a comic! And that’s a lot farther than most people ever get!

I hope this helps If anyone has any other questions about comics feel free to shoot em my way, I am always ready to talk about comics! And if you want to show me a comic you made send it my way!! I want to see!! Continue makin em my dudes!

#comics #Making comics #comics advice #Hi hello my name is Leo I’ve been making comics since I was 15 and been studying comic making since I was 17 #this is what my degree is in i love comics hello.#Anonymous

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soledadcatalina · 5 years

Photo

[ID: A series of black and white comic illustrations depicting events from Escape From Furnace: Silent Night. The first image is a two panel comic, the first being a black panel with Santiago, bruised and sneering on the far right. The second panel beneath is all black, with Donovan on the far right, bruised and with a panicked look on his face. The second picture is of Donovan and Adam laying side by side on their bunk after Donovan's fight. The third photo features Ambrose in his chipping gear, holding a pickaxe and Santiago's shank, with Kevin approaching with a wicked grin, his pickaxe hefted over his shoulder. The fourth picture is a composition of Donovan and several inmates pushing and clawing their way out of Room Two in a frenzy.]

part one here

and heres more silent night. not sure how many more drawings ill do tbh but god im so happy with em

#escape from furnace #carl donovan #eff santiago #eff adam #ambrose pope #accessible fanart #image description #casetrippy does art #silent night

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araiz-zaria · 2 years

Note

4, 10, and 19 for the art ask :)

~Alright, Let's go!~

4. favorite thing to draw

For most of my drawing life it's my OCs actually (headshots, portraits (down to chest), half body, etc...), though recently (2021 onwards) I started drawing *fan* arts more often so quite often I default to...a person of interest™ I currently have atm 😅🙃🙈 iykyk

10. how many different sketches do you usually have until your piece is finished

For a single drawing/illustration, not too many tbh, maybe only 2 to 3 sketches until I start the line art (or coloring, if painting with gouache).

More recently I do smaller thumbnail doodles to lay things out (clarify the vision I had in my mind, etc.) but those too I usually only make two or three of them.

Slightly different with comic strips, since I don't just think of how to draw the characters, I also think of the overall layout of a panel (placement of characters or text). So yeah, it can definitely take more than three sketches (per panel) until I finally start with the line art.

19. how often do you draw

Almost daily but since my moving back I haven't draw as often as I'd like 🥲😩😔😭 — I'm trying to get back to it though 🥲

#art ask game #asks #y'all ask away the ask box is open!

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maiji · 6 years

Photo

Process and wip images for A House That Holds Long Limbs (Parts 9 and 10 - completed)

Previous process and wip documentation: Part 1 / Part 2 / Part 3 / Part 4 / Part 5 / Parts 6 and 7 / Part 8

Read the pages here: Part 9 and Part 10 (full complete version is linked from YYH North Bound master post)

Hard to believe this is finally done! Long Limbs nets out at 108 pages including the cover, plus some extra drawings (and also a whole other comic and other illustrations I did in between the various parts). Here’s a summary:

Part 1: timestamp on final images posted are Dec 16-17, 2017 (11 pgs)

2: Dec 23, 2017 (10 pgs)

3: Jan 8, 2018 (10 pgs)

4: Jan 20, 2018 (12 pgs)

5: Feb 3, 2018 (14 pgs)

6: Feb 24, 2018 (12 pgs)

7: Mar 3, 2018 (6 pgs - would have been completed/posted with part 6, but was getting too long)

8: Mar 17-18, 2018 (13 pgs)

9: Jun 3, 2018 (10 pgs)

10: Jul 8, 2018 (10 pgs)

Based on the above, I should have been able to draw the comic in less than 8 months, even considering how slow I generally work and how frequently I get distracted by other things (Genjimonogatari series, the Hokushin Boyfriend project, etc. etc.). As you can see, I took a very conscious break to focus on other things (mainly Now Recharging, work, and conventions) after Part 8.

For this final behind-the-scenes, I’ll start as usual with script and thumbnails. Then I’ll do an overview of the main changes with a particular focus on opportunities and challenges that arise from having taken such a long break, and close with a quick look at the original story idea for comparison to where things ended up.

Script

Thumbnails

That text in the script about “writing like serpents” should be “WRITHING like serpents”... sigh. Doesn’t really matter since in the end they just hang there all chillaxed on Hokushin lol

(Also as you can see, I voted in the Ontario elections!)

Main changes

The best thing about taking long breaks on a project is that it really gives you a fresh set of eyes and more objectivity when you come back to it. It helped a lot with editing - ditching stupid things, stripping out pointless dialogue, and finessing phrasing.

Originally there was more conversation between Raizen and Hokushin when they reunite - but it was mainly explanations from Hokushin (e.g., “OMG this guy is keeping rokurokubi body parts in the house, we gotta find him blah blah blah”) but then I was like, who the heck cares, we already know what happened. Skip and just show the end result.

Originally the Collector was fleeing from the house after Raizen appeared. When I came back to it, I thought this was pointless and kind of disjointed, so I just had him outside the house and then being surprised that his shikigami was gone, so that Raizen’s presence would be more of a surprise.

In the confrontation with the Collector, Hokushin originally spoke directly to the psychic in a manner similarly condescending to how the man had been speaking to him. But when I reread it, it didn’t feel right for Hokushin’s personality. In the final version, he simply doesn’t deign to address the Collector at all, and instead speaks only to the dead rokurokubi.

Raizen’s final line gave me a super hard time, and went through several iterations from what’s in the script to what you see on the final page. I literally made the final decision on the wording while scanning.

The downside about taking long breaks on a project is that you really have to work hard to restart your motivation.

Also, I forgot how to draw the Collector and I had to keep looking at old pages lol... Actually, this always happens to me with things I designed. My problem is that I’m too lazy to make proper references for myself. (I have this problem with Now Recharging too lol)

Part 9 final pagination and thumbnails are pretty close - I mainly stretched out the part where Raizen’s aura takes the Collector down to the ground for less choppy pacing.

Part 10 pagination is essentially the same, but the panelling on each page changed a lot more. There was too much action and too many hands and just a mess all around with my poor planning skills. I really dragged this part on for a long time because I didn’t want to draw the hands...

Part 9 last page had some cropping done. Below is the original:

You’ll notice the final version is much more closely cropped. Zooming in created stronger visual impact to me and just worked a lot better in terms of how the moment is framed.

Part 10 page where Raizen tells Hokushin his auro has grown stronger - I actually started this page with everything facing the opposite direction (e.g., Hokushin facing the right instead in the panel where he is praying, and in the last panel) but then swapped it. I still can’t decide if I actually prefer this orientation or not. But it’s done now so WHO CARES

The original story idea

What I had jotted down about 1 year ago:

Idea: human taxidermist who collects demons, does “tests” on them, then kills and stuffs them

Hokushin stumbles upon it somehow and the human wants to add him to the collection because male rokurokubi are so rare

He mimics the human’s voice to trick servants into releasing him?

Use of blood seal paint to bind limbs so that Hokushin can’t extend them - and maybe also prevent him from speaking too since the mark is on his next

Raizen saves him or something lol

Then Hokushin eats the taxidermist

It’s funny to go back and see what stayed the same and what evolved over the course of working on the story.

I don’t remember where the taxidermy idea originally came from. My guess is I was trying to make this as potentially horror as possible, likely from memories of reading Kurosagi Corpse Delivery Service or something. But then the whole idea of taxidermy during the Kamakura period became a huge research problem (basically I couldn’t find anything I felt like I could work with, and TBH was rather unrealistic anyways... although this whole thing is technically unrealistic), and I dropped it.

Otherwise, you can see the core components are in place - a human who collects demons, the significance (rarity) of male rokurokubi, the blood seals, the mimicry, Raizen’s rescuing, eating the human at the end. It definitely went through quite a bit of thinking and reworking before it settled into what it is right now, mostly (I think) for the better.

Thanks so much for following along! Hope you guys found this documentation at least a little interesting and helpful for your own creative works :D

#yu yu hakusho #comics #fanart #hokushin #wip #process #drawings #art by Maiji/Mary Huang #making comics #yyh north bound

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comicteaparty · 4 years

Text

July 4th-July 10th, 2020 Creator Babble Archive

The archive for the Creator Babble chat that occurred from July 4th, 2020 to July 10th, 2020. The chat focused on the following question:

What was an unexpected aspect of making webcomics you didn’t realize before making one yourself?

Krispy §[Ghost Junk Sickness]§

How much our comic and it's story we're going to change during the years of creation was the biggest and most jarring aspect for sure. There's scripts and thumbs that were all made before we ventured out to make GJS with paths completely different from what we initially thought we would take that have completely changed how we approach not only writing but reading webcomics too. Webcomics as a medium have the biggest connection to time, whether it be production or the consumption, they have this opportunity to exist and transform in the long hours it takes to enjoy and read them. It's honestly one of the biggest advantages imho. To see a story slowly unfold, listening to ur audience reactions, peer critiques, or new inspiration can make such a drastic and intense impact on a long form work- its both jaw dropping and humbling to be apart of!(edited)

Deo101 [Millennium]

For me it was the community aspect of comics. I knew a community existed on the reader side of things (comments!), but I didn't expect the creator side to be how it is! I don't know why, but for some reason I kind of always thought that all of us were sort of throwing our comics out from the void... I guess that was me looking at comics from a reader's point of view! But as soon as I started making comics, I started meeting people who made them too... and it's been incredible!

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

@deo I never really understood what an internet community or internet friends were until I started making a webcomic

Deo101 [Millennium]

Yeah, I had been in (and quickly decided to not be in 0_0) gaming communities, but nothing really as wonderful as what I've found through comics. Closest I had gotten other than that was comments on social media

Shizamura 🌟 O Sarilho

Community definitely one of the big things, much like Deo pointed. I was kinda expecting to have get connections through readers, but it's much more with other creators, which is super satisfying in it's own way. Also gonna second Krispy's comment about how time affects how you see your story's past and future. A lot of things changed in the past four years that made my comic change as well and having so much time to think each individual scene allows them to be much more complex and interesting than they would when I first thought them through. Having the time really helps. This also kinda touches the topic of personal change too, which affects how I write and what feels most important to focus on and that's interesting to think about as well

eliushi [Keyspace]

How long things will take, the longer the story goes on! I started out being able to complete a page in 2h but then I found more I wanted to try on each page (colours, layout, composition etc) and even wanted to extend certain scenes. With 500 pages planned, I definitely thought I’d be farther along by now, heading into AWT’s first year anniversary in a month. That being said, I’m also enjoying the ride and it’s all thanks to the great community here and making connections with other comics folks/readers. I never expected to get comments and so each one has been a treasure to read.

Desnik

An unexpected aspect of making webcomics is how much people respond to them. I figured I'd be creating into a void but I met so many people as a result of publishing my dinosaur comic

shadowhood {SunnyxRain}

Ditto on the webcomic community. I didn't realize how far reaching it was to have a community that supports each other. And I've enjoyed meeting so many wonderful and creative people who raised each other up. Another thing I didn't expect, however, was how invested I got into my comic.(edited)

At first I was doing it mostly for fun. But the more I delved into it, the easier it was to get sucked into my story and want to draw it out. And as a result taking it a lot more seriously.

Desnik

yeah sometimes I miss my dinosaur comic even though I had some pretty good reasons for moving on. It was created out of desperation and evolved into something that made me feel good about myself

Haruh2 (Colony Life)

How much work and time it takes to keep a weekly update going with no backlog

Deo101 [Millennium]

Yeah same

Cronaj ~{Whispers of the Past}~

For me, I didn't realize how much it would affect my life to make comics, and vice versa. In a weird way, I didn't know how interrelated the two were, or how easily life could interfere with my comic, or the inverse.

eliushi [Keyspace]

Making comics became a lifestyle for me

@Haruh2 (Colony Life) When I had no backlog I was updating every two weeks with 7 pages per update; so about 14h of work. But this is with a finished script. I am also told I work fast.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

omg

Cronaj ~{Whispers of the Past}~

That's soooo much, Eli!

That's at least twice as much as I do (edited)

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

I hadn't realized how much I put myself into my comic! My friends who read it have all said that it's incredibly in my voice and reflects my opinions and worldviews Before I shared it with people I hadn't thought of it in that way at all

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

As an artist, I didn't expect how my comic production and mindset will change. Once I started comics, it brought out my ideas from thoughts to a physical form. I start to invest more time into it. Each project evolved through each chapter. How to balance script writing to a polished piece. I put alot of time and research in my works. It makes me glad to hear other creators do the same. I'm not the crazy artist who's wasting her time. One of the positive change was meeting other creators, how we give advice and receive praise.(edited)

eliushi [Keyspace]

The support has been amazing. It makes the work less lonely

Cronaj ~{Whispers of the Past}~

Fish, oh for sure! I didn't realize until recently how much my characters are all just facets of myself!

eliushi [Keyspace]

(I don’t work that quickly anymore and I’m making big changes to the format soon so it’s going to be a Transition)

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

I've been in school with art students who never made comics, so when I came to CTP discord, reading comic discussions. It was comforting and fun. I enjoy the cooperation our group has, helping each other.

eliushi [Keyspace]

I like to commiserate about the unique challenges comics have

Cronaj ~{Whispers of the Past}~

Hahaha, yeahhhhh

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

I agree, it's different from illustrations. Different approach(edited)

eliushi [Keyspace]

I am perpetually balancing time spent on a panel vs how much time the reader will spend on it

Vs illustration: lemme make all the details

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

Oh I agree, each panel takes longer than it takes to read it. Hence I dislike when readers call manga creators 'lazy'

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

how much time does it take to read one of my pages?

20 seconds?(edited)

haha

e.e

wait is that emoji supposed to be someone rolling their eyes??

i jsut looked it up

i might've been using it wrong this whole time

Cronaj ~{Whispers of the Past}~

Pacing

It's way different than in novels, and definitely came as a shock at the start

eliushi [Keyspace]

Yeah have to play to the strength of the medium. Still imagining AWT as an animated movie written from a novel, in the format of a comic

Cronaj ~{Whispers of the Past}~

Haha, same kinda

Haruh2 (Colony Life)

@eliushi [Keyspace] ah haha, that makes me feel better about my update habits, but thats a good goal for me to shoot for now that im learning a new way to make long comics specifically

cAPSLOCK (Tailslide)

I completely underestimated the amount of effort that would have to go into formatting, website design and maintenance, etc. If I got to do it again, a little more research beforehand probably would’ve saved me a lot of time and hassle.

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

I really overestimated the "if you build it they will come" aspect of webcomics lol. Like, you actually have to work to advertise your comic in order for people to read it. Nobody ever got hundreds of readers just from posting their comic onto some hosting site without doing major marketing work.(edited)

dako

yeah, I feel that

I've never really been an advertising type before my comic, im learning to just get used to it

Deo101 [Millennium]

I've not really done much advertising tbh, it makes me uncomfortable

dako

it feels kinda...embarrassing? might be too harsh of a word

i dunno

Deo101 [Millennium]

its just uncomfortable idk! i feel awkward doing it

dako

yeah, same ive done it a few times on reddit but i have to force myself

Haruh2 (Colony Life)

it does feel, odd..hell most of the time it just feels like i open the door to my house and toss a bunch of paper to the wind hoping someone can see it

Deo101 [Millennium]

yeah, I dont know if ive done anything other than posting updates on twitter and talking about it in groups like this

and twitter is mostly just me talkin to people who already read it...

idk talking about my work without being asked first makes me feel like im inserting myself where im not allowed

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Self promo got MUCH less intimidating for me when I started thinking of it like: "okay, so my comic is made for readers like me, people who share my tastes. That means I only need to answer one question: what can I say to get me to check out this comic? I don't need to impress anyone else. I just need to appeal to me." (since "me" is my target audience)

Deo101 [Millennium]

mhm ^^

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

But take it with a grain of salt because I'm still not really promoing

Haruh2 (Colony Life)

exactly, thats why i find it hard to tweet about it most of the time, but i get the whole if i dont care about to talk without being asked no one else will either

Deo101 [Millennium]

yeah lmao mood im like what would get me to read... hmmm... probably exactly what im doing.... I'll keep it up then :)

Haruh2 (Colony Life)

yea i get excited to draw out certain parts..but wouldnt want to just tweet about all the little tidbits of the story ruining it for others

Deo101 [Millennium]

sweats

dako

i made a whole side twitter for my comic cuz talking about it on my main intimidated me too much

it is my containment chamber

Haruh2 (Colony Life)

hm may do that, just to say i did it and to get my mind away from the thought

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

yeah same

Deo101 [Millennium]

My main is just whatever I want it to be idk. Its kinda for all my comics, since my comics are all I want to talk about

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

though my main is mostly just retweeting from my side twitter lol

Deo101 [Millennium]

it removes a lot of the pressure of like what if my followers dont wanna see this??

cause they wouldnt be here if they didnt wanna see it

cause its all Ive been doing the whole time

dako

thats a good point

i had my main way before my comic so most of my mutuals/followers dont follow for that

Haruh2 (Colony Life)

yea, it can feel abit disorienting when there is no interaction one way or another on anything you tweet (also if twitter has messed up and causes your tweets to not show up)

Deo101 [Millennium]

but yeah I dont really advertise cause it just makes me so uncomfortable >.<

dako

understandable

Cronaj ~{Whispers of the Past}~

I'm kind of somewhere in between. I advertise my comic mostly because it is all I wanna talk about, like Deo. But I also don't think it's gotten me many readers. Most of my readers came as far as I can tell because I was making something that appealed to them. (The whole "if you build it, they will come" thing.) Although, I really don't have a big audience, I do have an audience, and I am certain most of them came from me just posting.

I think it's determined a lot by luck, and also, how big your niche's audience is to begin with (and some skill tbh).

Deo101 [Millennium]

yeah like I think "gay sci fi" is a p big niche so ive got a big amount of people I could potentially reach

which makes it much easier to draw people in

Cronaj ~{Whispers of the Past}~

I'm particularly lucky, I guess, that fantasy/romance has a lot of readers (also more competition, but...)

Deo101 [Millennium]

yeah fantasy romance is a damn big one

Haruh2 (Colony Life)

eh i think im in an awkward void with my action/drama story (since im not doing romance drama)

Cronaj ~{Whispers of the Past}~

I just go with the mindset: "what makes my fantasy/romance different from the rest" and go from there.

Deo101 [Millennium]

mhm

tbh I dont think my sci fi romance is doing anything special?

but im having fun so :) I dont rlly care about that hahahha

dako

having fun the most important thing

Deo101 [Millennium]

its not my goal to make somthing mindblowing ^^ truley im just here for a good time

Cronaj ~{Whispers of the Past}~

I mean, LGBT+-inclusive sci-fi is pretty unique

I haven't seen a lot

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

It's clear that your characters are people, and that's special, regardless of how common/uncommon

dako

think if i didnt love my comic as much as i do id have stopped a long time ago

Deo101 [Millennium]

thats true keiiii, thank you <3

also yeah its Sad that theres not more LGBT+ sci fi cause its like youve got aliennnssssssssssssssssssss you can do whatever you waaaaaant

Cronaj ~{Whispers of the Past}~

I knooowww

Deo101 [Millennium]

guess it shows what ppl want or something

Cronaj ~{Whispers of the Past}~

yup

Deo101 [Millennium]

off topic

so to make it back on topic

I underestimated how much people would like gay sci fi GJKLAGJLAJLKAGJSLAKGJKL

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

One thing I learned specifically with my current comic... I did not realize how much difference the reader's cultural background would make in terms of interpreting my story.

Deo101 [Millennium]

!!!!!

I actually almost mentioned you in class once tbh keiii

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Big oversight, in retrospect

Deo101 [Millennium]

saying "someone I know makes a comic which they noticed, it's interpreted completely differently just depending on cultural backgrounds" kind of a thing

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

like I would not have made the comic any different, but I would have approached the... presentation differently. Like, talk about it differently

Deo101 [Millennium]

cause we were talking about how narratives affect rt

Cronaj ~{Whispers of the Past}~

I guess another thing that was unexpected about making webcomics was... there are way more people with my exact tastes than I thought

Deo101 [Millennium]

and I was saying that I think the viewer's narrative affects art more than the artists narrative

I mean, the artists narrative obviously is what makes it so.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

In the eyes of the beholder

Deo101 [Millennium]

but interpretations and all that... yeah!!!

so. actually I might have offhandedly mentioned you I cant remember if I did or not

lemme check

I did! very like "second hand" offhandedly mentioning though ahaha

hope that doesnt make you uncomfortable GSKLGSJALGJLGK no one replied to me so e.e

in the class I mean

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I am super uncomfortable and offended !!!!!

j/k

Deo101 [Millennium]

hgjkghsjkagskajgdhsakgjhgjd

but... yeah idk starting out I truly just was making it cause I really love my characters a lot, the idea that other people would like them too is very unexpected :) in a good way

I also definitely didnt expect how important enviornments were e.e

didnt plan those well enough.

Cronaj ~{Whispers of the Past}~

that relatable feel

sssfrs (JOE IS DEAD)

I really desperately advertise my comic everywhere. I don't really know how to do marketing effectively though & I don't know if its working

eliushi [Keyspace]

I find what increased readership most consistently is still the feature aspect from the hosting sites. It’s really about finding the right readers/right readers finding you

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Same, I'm basically a rounding error away from being 100% reliant on the features for subs

sssfrs (JOE IS DEAD)

I don't think my comic has ever been featured on the hosting sites. My numbers have always been low on Tapas and maybe thast why

Cronaj ~{Whispers of the Past}~

Yeah, features help a lot

I've been featured on Webtoon, but not Tapas, and you can really see the difference in readership there

Deo101 [Millennium]

Ive been featured on both, uhh in a couple of diff places, if you wanted a breakdown of how many readers i got from the diff spots and stuff ever just lmk im happy to share

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I've been featured on both. It certainly got people to check it out and even sub, but retaining those people (even if they've subbed!!!) is a different story. I think my story is just not the right type for the platforms, but eh, even if 99% of the platform users aren't into the kinda thing I'm making, 1% increase is still an increase.

Which is another thing I learned over the course of running this comic, specifically (since the internet has changed so much after my first two attempts). Just because the majority of your subs don't actually read the comic, doesn't mean your work sucks. Today's internet caters to casual users, and there's a bajillion factors affecting who's actually reading your stuff.

dako

i agree

my comic has never been featured on either, and webtoons doesnt have a guideline on what they pick but tapas does and my comic doesnt really meet their featuring requirements so i dont think either site ever will feature mine haha

so i gotta advertise on reddit and use twitter tags a lot

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Don't go too crazy with twitter tags; they can make people zone out and not look at your tweet.

dako

i try to use 5 at the most, i know too many is unpleasant to look at haha

Jib {WIP haha}

Oh huh, my rule of thumb is to use 1-2 on twitter and as many as I can on Insta but I’m no expert lol

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Yeah, IG seems to be where you want all the tags XD

varethane

Webtoon's algorithms are like turning a hose on and off lol

The difference between views and sub growth during periods of being featured vs not is stark(edited)

carcarchu

i've never been featured by webtoons but i've seen series grow from 100 followers to 10k overnight

not an exaggeration

varethane

I put my new comic on webtoon in november 2019, and in 1 month I crawled up to.... maybe 50 subs?(granted I only put up one episode and then paused for a bit)

Then in December I started updating it weekly and got placed in the new and hot section of the app

And bam, 6k subs

It last 2 weeks and then the section updated and all growth stopped, and subs went down by 10 or so over the next week

Krispy §[Ghost Junk Sickness]§

(Omg featured is like the new Daily Deviation goals from DA way back in the day!)

varethane

Until it got another feature on a different part of the website and went up another 2k. It was like playing with the handle on a faucet lol

dako

I got some pretty good growth during canvas week, but beyond that not really

I get 1-2 subs after an update if I'm lucky

varethane

I feel like their algorithms are very reliant on the regular rotation of features that staff have to do manuallt

Outside of that, discoverability is quite weak

Mostly because of the volume of comics on there

boogeymadam

same boat as vare. the only thing i know about webtoons features is they have stated a couple times one of their recquirements is consistant updating, so if u skip a week that disqualifies u for a lil while i imagine

varethane

I wonder what they count as consistent. I was doing every 2 weeks for awhile, but this month I'm gonna try weekly to see if it helps me earn more $$ from ads :U

dako

I wish there was more incentive for readers to check out the new section on webtoons and tapas

carcarchu

i have found some amazing gems in the new section

i swear i've seen stuff in featured that were not at all updated consistently

dako

I have too, there's a ton of good comics that get overlooked because they're not in the front page

some featured comics havent updated in months sometimes

varethane

I definitely would not have considered myself consistent at the time of the first feature, considering there was a gap of a month between episode 1 and 2 lpl

carcarchu

the consistently updating thing is more of a recommendation than a requirement i feel?(edited)

boogeymadam

ooohh good to know!!

varethane

I'm sure it cant be a hard rule, especially for comics that have just launched

boogeymadam

im just going off their canvas qna's from last year

dako

if it's actually a hard rule for staff to feature comics that regularly update they break that rule a lot

i also heard a bot picks up comics too

carcarchu

well i at least think the staff or bots or whatever at webtoons are doing a better job with features than tapas is

tapas is always pushing their premium comics way more than their indie stuff

boogeymadam

tapas needs to bring new comics onto the frontpage more often than it does, yeah

dako

yeah I agree

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I mean, I get why they put premium on the front page. But I feel more variety would help them because it's more interesting for the readers?

dako

I can't tell whats premium or not with tapas sometimes

boogeymadam

i do like that they've been asking stuff like this in the forums tho

carcarchu

more distinction would be helpful to me too dako

i don't think its as clear as it could be

dako

yeah, webtoons at least it's clear what is and what isnt featured or canvas

Jib {WIP haha}

Huh, anyone remember that really popular writing podcast? I forgot the name

Or have any recommendations I guess

Moral_Gutpunch

Terrible writing advice? It's sarcastic

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

is this related to the topic?

Moral_Gutpunch

It's a podcast about writing, so I'm going to say yes.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I think snuffysam meant the weekly topic for the channel

Moral_Gutpunch

Just for this channel, no. I'm too new to know that.

Cronaj ~{Whispers of the Past}~

Please check #rules

Moral_Gutpunch

Sound more like someone forgot context than the rules

That's why I'm hardly here. I don't know stuff people who've been here for a long time know like podcasts or older comics(edited)

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Basically each of the channels under "CTP Activities" on this server has its own topic of the week.

Cronaj ~{Whispers of the Past}~

It's not a matter of being here for a long time or not. This channel is used solely for discussing the weekly topics, and such information can be found in #rules

Moral_Gutpunch

Kudos then. I came for creator babble only.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

For general webcomic creation-related advice (either seeking or giving) and such, #shop_talk usually is the place!

creator_babble is for answering the topic of the week

It's not actually for generalized "creator babble" despite the name.

dako

looks like they left

Jib {WIP haha}

Oh my bad, it’s been a while since I read the rules, I brought up the new subject

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Happens!

Cronaj ~{Whispers of the Past}~

No problem, we were just reminding you all :)

Jib {WIP haha}

Ty for that then haha

dako

I think one unexpected thing for me is that no one tells you how crazy the highs and lows can be

well I guess people do but you really don't know until the highs and lows happen to you if that makes sense

Cronaj ~{Whispers of the Past}~

Oh God, that's so true

Burnout is way more dreadful than I could ever guess prior to experiencing it

Feather J. Fern

One unexpected thing for me was how many people I would meet because of my comic. It surprised me greatly that I found so many cool people through the comic community and made the friends I have made now. Love you all

rajmews

The unexpected thing for me was just how much you have to just...predict...what the market will want to read. Like even if you research a whole lot, and you draw really well, and have been doing art professionally, you can still strike out. It's a humbling experience, but being able to just let go of poorly received pages and move on and try things differently is a lot of the battle for doing a webcomic. It teaches you how to fail gracefully because...it's all a process of learning your readers better. Even if they're few at first.

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

My major unexpected thing was how much my initial ideas change as I work through a page. Everything from the expressions, dialogue, and layout can change as I look at it and 'solve' it more closely than I did in thumbnails. There are pages I look back on and realize they are ENTIRELY different than what I had first sketched. And they're better for it. Allowing myself the freedom to edit during the artwork... it's created some majorly awesome opportunities.

Deo101 [Millennium]

Yes!!!!! Me too!!!

It's exciting thoufh

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Absolutely same

Could plan something out meticulously but then change it in the last 2 secs before uploading

Deo101 [Millennium]

Yup... I don't thumbnail much ahead of where I'm at cause of this(edited)

I thumbnail a scene at a time, and then usually I end up changing stuff halfway through ahahfjjdkskdkss

varethane

Same hat, haha. I often make changes at every stage-- even the thumbnails will often depart from the script. If anything, I wish I made even more changes-- I feel like my page layouts tend to be pretty standard, I do a lot of pages with the 3 rows of 2 panels each, and I want to break out of that more. But... well, that's a work in progress.

#ctparchive #comics #webcomics #indie comics #comic chat #comic discussion #comic tea party #ctp #creator interview #comic creator interview #creator babble

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comicteaparty · 5 years

Text

March 7th-March 13th, 2020 Creator Babble Archive

The archive for the Creator Babble chat that occurred from March 7th, 2020 to March 13th, 2020. The chat focused on the following question:

What is your overall marketing/promotion strategy for your webcomic?

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

I don't know if this counts as a strategy, but these are some of the things I do to promote my comic or my work in general. 1. Most important from what I've noticed (which I have been failing at due to stress and self-doubt lately) is to post updates to your comic frequently and consistently. It seems somewhat silly that simply putting your work out there is the best way to grow an audience, but it really is. Newly posted chapters frequently get shown on more pages and thus detected by the algorithms and potential readers. It also helps to establish trust with current and returning readers. 2. Participating in art/comic events, forums, and other comicking communities (such as this one). In a way, this isn't really marketing directly, but it is good to build connections with other creators! 3. Conventions! I actually have gotten a several new readers/followers from attending cons. It's also nice just to talk to people, get your name out there locally, and to make a little bit of money while at it. 4. Social media promotion. Tbh, this hasn't been super helpful to me, but more eyes is always a win in my book. I try to post almost every day, even if it isn't art or comic related. Having some kind of social media presence at all, even if it's small, shows people that you are working hard to connect to others. Also finding the right hashtags definitely helps with visibility.

kayotics

Overall, my strategy for marketing is to be authentic and just keep plugging my stuff. People will come if they like it. I work as a marketer for my day job, so I know what I COULD do, but I really don’t do that much since a whole marketing plan would take a lot more time than I have available to me. Some of the stuff I do otherwise: - regular updates. This ones pretty important for retaining viewers I already have. Any good marketing strategy is thinking about retaining people, not just getting new ones - self promo: this usually is on top webcomics or on social media. I get a LOT of traffic from top webcomics, and I get a good handful of people from social media. - conventions, like mentioned before, can be a great way to get people’s eyes on your stuff. I have a postcard that I hand out to people if they come by or they purchase something. - the thing I don’t do enough is post more art outside of the comic, or even just little previews. If I were dedicated to marketing, I’d be sharing sketches or illustrations on social media to grow my audience.

DanitheCarutor

Ah you know, I don't really have much of a strategy. At some point I promoted as much as I could on Twitter, adding my comic to those share/promo thread, getting in on relevant hashtag events, participating on WebComic Chat (whenever I remembered to). I've done a little promotion on forums, but there is really only so much you can do since only so many people hang out there and if your work is super niche like mine, they will pretty much avoid your promos at all cost. Lmao Other than those I don't really do much, at some point I attempted to use Instagram but the site/app is very stingy about offsite links. I also started a Facebook page, although if you don't have the money to boost your promos and don't usually have a lot going on with your comic outside of weekly updates, it won't get a whole lot of attention. I've also tried to be more active, but I'm not a good conversationalist, and I tend to be kind of a thread/conversation/mood killer so I try to avoid talking outside of Q&A prompts like this.

eli [a winged tale]

Same Dani, I used Instagram for a while too and I just don’t think the platform is a good fit for my vertical scroll comic (see exhibit 1) Twitter is a mixed bag as well and I think unless you have a solid following already, it’s hard to gain traction. What really helped was being on Webtoon’s staff pick for a couple days. I’m not sure how Tapas picked up but it’s reassuring that there’s a couple of followers gained every week when I posted regularly. So it really does sound like the first step is to have a steady update schedule (working on the buffer! Got a month’s work down today). It’s just challenging because while I could upload one page a week but on the vertical scroll sites it seems like a longer episode (6-7 pages) is valued more as a solid update. Love hearing everyone’s thoughts and hope to learn from y’all! (edited)

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Consistency and con attendance were big ones for me, but something I learned worked well (and was really fun to do) was creating really fun, really dumb, non-canon bits of art every now and then. Following meme prompts or funny ideas from other people. If your comic can afford some humor being thrown its way, making people laugh is a great way to get some attention. No one needs to know the details of your story - they just need to relate to the characters/humor somehow. I had more than one person come across my dumb, meme-y ancillary art and go “Welp, I want to read your comic now.”

eli [a winged tale]

Memes to the rescue! What has been your favourite to do? And which one has surprised you in its relatability/popularity?

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Two shots of vodka.

Also that terrible sweater meme. Everyone is required to do the terrible sweater meme. People eat it up.

eli [a winged tale]

Too good

Ahh I can’t wait till I can actually write silly adult characters

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Now that you mention it, the nice thing about the terrible sweater meme is it works with a WIDE variety of comics.

eli [a winged tale]

I would love to do a meme with y’all

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

"Came for the story, staying for the sick memes"

Spring-heeled Jack

I try to post updates every friday when my new pages go up on Patreon. And then I make my big post when my tapas and website update at the end of the month. Between all that, I have little flyers that I carry with me and if I'm ever in a shop that has a little self promotion section, I plan on tacking up a flyer. I do conventions, and this will be my first convention season while actively making a comic, so flyers will be handed out then as well.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

My comic isnt very comedy-heavy, and even for the funny scenes, my sense of humor isn't compatible with most people's. So a lot of the memes out there just don't work. But terrible sweater meme doesn't have to be hilarious. It can be just cute, or even weird.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

For me, uh lmao. I sometimes make some funny strip panels and it was received well even though it's not polished for my liking lmao

Spring-heeled Jack

Keii, I feel you. I'm not good with comedy and my comic isn't meant to be funny, either, so I don't know how well a comedy meme will help me.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

overall, I try to be honest with just self promo and asking when I have a chance "Hey pls check out my comic lol"

eli [a winged tale]

Or maybe just something relatable? Seen a couple caption this on tumblr

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I think instead of memes, what I'm gonna do is my characters cosplaying more well known characters from works that have some tonal similarities with my own. This isn't just for advertising purposes; it's something I've been wanting to do for a long time for myself. But I'm realizing it can serve some of the same purposes that memes do.

Spring-heeled Jack

That's extremely cute!

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Keyword being "SOME" Tonal similarities... Some of them aren't very similar but have a couple of parallels, etc.

Spring-heeled Jack

Oh for sure. Even if you could find that 'perfect match', it might not be a great cosplay for them, and give too much away

Are "draw the squad" prompts still a thing? I love those

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

The One White Dude and the Tiger Dude in my comic will definitely cosplay Calvin and Hobbes at some point.

Spring-heeled Jack

LOL

omg please, Keii

eli [a winged tale]

YES

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Yeah, not every comic will have super memeable humor - but whatever you can do to break down that wall between you and a potential reader and go “Hey! Look at this. Is this relatable? Do you get the reference? Etc” Is a very good bet

Also yes squad memes are PERFECT

You can boil down your comic’s relationships so simply.

Spring-heeled Jack

I have four couples in my comic so those "ship dynamic" posts might be fun

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

What are squad memes?

eli [a winged tale]

I also need to be educated about squad I mean all the memes

Spring-heeled Jack

OH MAN!! They are fun as heck. You can find templates and it's a very simple character design in the template, but the poses are super silly. And then you just draw your characters in place of those simple figures(edited)

If you google "Draw the squad" you will find a bunch

renieplayerone

Oh! Ill have to try that! These squad bases look fun!

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

I still have one of those I need to finish Back when I first started sharing my work, I was surprised and delighted at how quickly people shoved it through a meme filter.

Maybe that’s another thing! If marketing opportunities present themselves as a surprise, try running with them and see where they take you Within reason, of course. Never feel forced to follow anything that people respond to in a particular way. Just take it into account and see how you feel about it.

renieplayerone

(Im here to lurk on this week's question, i have no strategy and need ideas haha)

eli [a winged tale]

Omg draw the squad looks

too many to choose

mariah (rainy day dreams)

I love draw the squad poses so much TuT I wish I had more time to draw within more of them. I think I always get a little dishearten about making memes because I feel like I need to make my jokes full illustrations but I never have time for much extra content beyond ballpoint pen sketches :T

Mei

Honestly I don't have a marketing or promotion strategy for my webcomic. I make updates every week, and I post it on my twitter and kinda plug it there. I'm actually god awful at trying to make people read my comic because I'm a little bit nervous about it, to be honest. So I just sort of leave it there and see if people find it, half the time. That being said, I tried to promote it pretty hard at conventions last year. But that didn't go as well as I'd hoped. I'm hoping to make flyers with QR codes so that people can scan it, and it'll take them to the landing page/tapas for the comic. That might be a bit easier than getting them to just search the title, plus having a flyer is a nice bit of promotion if I get the opportunity?! Making memes and drawing characters in different clothes or in squad things sounds like super fun tho and I might look into that in the future

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

It's nice to hear everyone talk about this topic. TBH I had completely stopped promoting my comic because I got too scared of backlash, being a disappointment, etc. (Initially I'd attracted a number of people who weren't actually my target audience, and that led to some less than ideal results.) But some time last year, it occurred to me that 1) I'm making this comic for my reader self (or my "hypothetical taste twin" as I like to call it)... which means 2) I only have to appeal to people like me. So I started asking myself, "What would I have to say/do to get me to read this comic?" and that made it significantly less intimidating. I haven't actually started doing self promo (though I did start plugging my updates on Twitter at least). But most future self promo I do will be based on that ^ question.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

(oh god, I was just checking out the latest update for one of the Korean webcomics I read, and the new episode is about a hikikomori... who says "I want to change, but I can't step outside because... maybe there isn't a single person out there who will understand me." THAT WAS ME but with comic promo. Well, I'm getting better and I also hope this character will, too, though knowing this comic his chances aren't so great lol...)

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I hope that wasn't too awkward to share! Tl;dr I really think the "what would I have to say/do to get ME to check out my comic" is a good approach for anyone else feeling intimidated about doing self promos.

In the same vein, but on the opposite side of the coin: I'm curious to know, what were some things that got YOU to read someone else's comic?

Some of my own answers to that aren't very relevant to what we can do for our own comics: e.g. I'm Korean and when Naver has a new comic in their pro comic lineup, I may check it out. I'm also a member of SpiderForest and I check out the applicants' comics during the app season. Stuff like that aren't really good promo options that we can take. But things that may be relevant: - 'Evocative scenery shot that doesn't show the face/ doesn't focus on the face.' MY WEAKNESS. That kinda pictures feel subtle and kind of lonely to me, even if it's a group shot. And I like stories with those vibes. -Promo includes an evocative quote. Could be from the comic itself, or from something else like a classical literature or whatever. The creator of Ark (https://www.arkcomic.com/) does this sometimes and even though I'm already following Ark, those promos get my attention.

eli [a winged tale]

Definitely the art promo now that I think of it! Merch, posters, banners etc. If the art intrigues me, I definitely take a look at the site/blurb/first chapter

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I wonder if we can semi-workshop promo art at some point? Not really intensive like "change xyz" because that's not always feasible with art, but just impression feedback like, "this pictures gives me these vibes, and makes me expect this kinda story"

I would be curious to see everyone's even if we don't workshop

eli [a winged tale]

YES

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

Yesssss

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

Yes please. I don‘t promo besides update notices simply because I have no clue to start.

Mei

Sometimes I get really attracted by the style of the story? I immediately started reading Wolfsbane because the art was cool and different from a lot of whta I'd seen on Webtoon up until that point. And then the story was perfect for me. What keii said about writing for yourself is right. Patrick Ness once said you should write the stories your younger self would have loved to pick up on a shelf

and I think that's a pretty evocative thing. At the end of the day, you should be enjoying what you're writing (hopefully). And if you enjoy it and you're having fun making it, that can rub off on the people reading it, or you find the people who like that similar vein of story?

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

(It's also 100% legit to write stories for your current self )

Mei

(oh yes 100% that's what i'm doing HEHE)

Tolkein wrote LOTR because he was like

in love with worldbuilding

was there a market for such a strange type of novel at the time? No. Definitely not. Did he write it anyway? YEAH HE DID

Deo101 [Millennium]

I really wanna do an art workshop yes.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Aight, anyone who wants an impression feedback from me, post your promo art in #art_help

Warning, my impressions may be totally off lol

Deo101 [Millennium]

Also I don't do much marketing. Mostly I try to get in with communities and learn about making comics, I just want to improve my craft. All I really do is make my updated every week, and share whatever art Ive made on my Twitter or whatever

Okay! I think I only have my cover on my phone, but on my computer I also have my banners and icon. So I'll share all those in a bit when I'm at my computer

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

(off topic but I'm sick, and when I'm sick or very tired I constantly misread words. I read "my banners" as "my bananas" and I was very confused for a couple seconds.)

Deo101 [Millennium]

My bananers

Feather J. Fern

I am terrible at marketing my own work, but I am very good at marketing other people's work. I use the "you would like it for this reason" to grab people. Unfortunately I can't do it for my comic because I am bad at seeing the good in my own work oof. I am getting better at it though.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

That's a really good way to do it!

And I can relate. My own hangup is a little different, but it can be extremely difficult to be brave for sure, whether in front of other people, or just in front of your own brain that constantly judges you.

Feather J. Fern

Yeah I was talking about a friend's comic and then the person I was talking to was like "Don't you write comics" and I was like "ahfoofjw yeah but don't look at them"

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I was thinking a lot about the whole "it's like [well known work] meets [another well known work]" approach that was discussed earlier. And I think that could be relevant here. Like, think of something that has either influenced your comic significantly, or just happens to have some core similarities. How would you market that thing? Could you market your own thing using a similar approach -- since there are similarities?

I'd thought of a really good example to compare HoK to. Then I got sad because the said example is extremely obscure outside of Korea. But now I'm like, hey, people don't have to KNOW that work. I can do this differently. I can talk about HoK the way I could talk about it.

('it' as in the other work that's obscure outside of Korea)

Feather J. Fern

I do think that's a good fast shortcut but I don't like using it becuase the shortcut sometimes makes people angry when they don't get what they like out of those two things

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

That's why I said to NOT actually bring up the comparison work

Don't name it

Just list the traits that are shared in common

Feather J. Fern

Oh sorry

I miss read

(And my name changed colours all the sudden?)

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

It's a confusing topic, so no worries

It means you leveled up

Feather J. Fern

OWO!

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Say you want to compare your work to... I dunno, DBZ, because it's got super strong aliens duking it out barehanded, blasting ki-like energy attacks, etc. Don't name DBZ. Talk about your work the way you'd talk about your favorite aspects of DBZ. "My comic has super strong aliens duking it out hand-to-hand! YEEEAH!"

OH MY GOD I NEED TO DO THIS NOW.

Feather J. Fern

Yeah! That's what I would do. (But it also helps for me that my comic has no hard reference points) but for my new comic, people are gonna compare it to Zach Bell, and Angelic Layer i think

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I'm gonna write up some drafts that I will revise and tweet at a later time

Feather J. Fern

So I jsut got to you know, not promo it as such XD

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

I want to do this too for a quick pitch

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Do it (shop talk or story help maybe?)

I'm writing a vomit draft for mine

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

Yee

Feather J. Fern

I think I will do it for Story help

(Also so I can help flesh out my new project lol lol)

eli [a winged tale]

Kei I might be suuuuper off since I read only the beginning but I sort of thought inuyasha but Korea and handsome boys

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Sometimes you don't even realize your story can be marketed as "blah meets blah" until much later down the line - I've only started realizing the number of existing properties I've absorbed unintentionally into my comic. It's not how I'd market it on a serious front, but to a friend for story help, heck yes.

But a lot of people on Twitter seem to do that strategy for PitMAD and it works great for them, so... shrug

I guess it still belongs in a "pitch arsenal," as it were

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Yeah, the one "blah" I just thought of is something I hadn't realized for all these years. But it makes so much sense now that I look at it.

eli [a winged tale]

See that’s where I got confused but I think this is what I’m gonna aim to do: - pitch to readers: inspiration but this awesome unique thing in the comic - pitch to other comic makers: the Logline - pitch to agents: comparison works if requested and longer pitch depending on their format - pitch to family: just read it plzthanksbye

renieplayerone

or alternative pitch to family: Please dear god never read this

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

That's me

Oof... Writing the 'promote your comic by talking about the traits it shares with Another Person's Work,' I made myself cry, and that is definitely a sign I'm on the right track.

eli [a winged tale]

Right track is good!

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

It took me years to even think of an 'other more popular work' comparison for Children of Shadow. XD But at the same time, it's really different from the works I compare it to, so it's hard to say 'Read this if you like X or X because it has a few similarities in theme and tone, but is still very much its own thing'.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Yeah which is why I'm not even gonna namedrop my X.

I'm just straight up gonna talk about 'My comic has [this trait]' (and X shares that trait, but no one needs to know for the purpose of that pitch)

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

To answer the weekly question... I really don't have a marketing strategy. Marketing is my achilles heel, so I generally just throw pages up and hope someone sees them. I don't really understand social media nor do I have the energy to sink tonnes of time into it, which seems to be one of the biggest requirements for being picked up by algorithms. So my marketing strategy is just.., keep making comics and talking to other creators and hope for the best

eli [a winged tale]

I think that’s still solid Capn

Ultimately you need a product to promote

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

It's something that helps me, because while I can talk about my favorite works done by others, I feel stuck when trying to do the same with my own. So it's basically telling my brain, 'hey, you already know how to do it with other stories. Do the same thing with your own.'

eli [a winged tale]

So true Kei

renieplayerone

thats my strategy too. best case you market it great, worst case you've made a new friend so win win :3

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

My incredibly low numbers after 14 years of making webcomics beg to differ but... maybe someday I can hire someone to help me market.

eli [a winged tale]

I’m using the comic platforms rather than my own site so... sort of relying on their algorithms. I imagine it can be harder if you just post on your own website?

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Sometimes the platforms don't help much if their audience isn't into the type of comics you make

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I post on both my own website and on platforms, but the algorithms for WT and Tapas don’t seem to like me, haha.(edited)

renieplayerone

yeah same

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

One of my top favorite webcomics got a front page feature on Tapas once, but it wasn't the kind of a story that gets a lot of traction there, so it still didn't get very popular. And that was in no way a measure of its quality. It is an excellent comic, just not a good fit for that particular place.

renieplayerone

I get far more views on my site, but I get way more engagement on Tapas and WT

I actually treat those two mirrors AS marketing for the main site(edited)

eli [a winged tale]

Exactly renie! Good perspective!

I never know what different platforms tailor to...

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Yeah, what Keiiii said. I make dark fantasy comics and both WT and Tapas favour romance, especially comics geared towards a female audience and drawn anime style. My comics aren’t particularly feminine and romance isn’t much of a focus, so they’re just not what that demographic is into.

eli [a winged tale]

I’ve been trying to remember how I came across my favourite comics and usually it’s through the art (interesting characters, unique dynamic style that I enjoy) and the first chapter holding promise (able to see what the character wants/will have to change into)

Romance has always been the best seller in the story world I think

Oh and most recently hiveworks and other web publishers have great recommendations too per genre

And comic conventions are always fun to meet creators. Sometimes If I feel I jive with someone I’m an instant fan

renieplayerone

I absolutely need to get better at having confidence enough to make friends at conventions x_x

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I have noticed my audience grow a bit since joining Spiderforest. They’ve helped me get a bit better at promotion, though marketing just isn’t my talent, lol.

renieplayerone

im always terrified haha

eli [a winged tale]

It’s a big step for sure renie! It took me like... three years going to VanCAF as an attendee before actually exhibiting and making friends(edited)

Mei

I know i'm late but i personally detest the 'this book is X meets Y!!', even though I get why people do it. I just wish they'd describe it to me like what if I'd never read either of those books......

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I would really love to get out to cons, they sound like a great opportunity for connecting with other creators. One of these years I’ll be able to get to one!(edited)

Deo101 [Millennium]

yeah im usually kinda like "okay, well are you doing anything new or are you just doing those things :/"

renieplayerone

I exhibit with the Boston Comics Roundtable and I still havent gotten the courage XD

Mei

yeah, cons are really fun even to attend or to make friends! I find it really tough though, I'm so intimidated;;

yeah Deo... same... it's like

sure, I could pitch a story as two things. Like I don't know "The Walking Dead meets Shaun of the Dead" which is semi redundant anyway

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I only use it to give people a framework for the kinds of tones and themes they can expect from my work when I have to keep my explanation short and sweet.

renieplayerone

they should have badges that say "Hi i want to make friends but you are all so awesome its intimidating be kind"

Mei

or you know... use those words to just describe the story? It may be a personal preference, some agents LOVE comparisons

Yes renie, yes!

i'd love a badge like that like

pls talk to me i'm scare

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Sometimes a few words can’t fully describe a story as well as saying: ‘It’s a little bit like X meets X but if you add [insert unique thing your story does]’

Mei

I personally find that it depends a bit too much on people having read those books or stories before. BUT if you're pitching to an agent, they've usually read those books

so then they get a sense or vibe of like, what the genre is

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

It’s all down to preference, really. Your own and the person you’re pitching to. If you don’t want to use comparisons to describe your own work, that’s valid, but try not to dismiss people who do.

Mei

so I get it, I just don't like it personally xD I think a lot of the times it takes away from your own voice and story

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

That too is part of the reason why I'm not namedropping the works

Just having my self-promo self learn from my 'promo other people's stuff' self

Mei

yeah for sure, it adds that level of excitement to your own work that you'd give to others?

eli [a winged tale]

I think a cool exercise might be to check out someone’s work here and see how you would promote it

It’s always good to see from someone else’s perspective

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

yessssss, all of my friends have been much better at promoting than I am

mostly because they have no shame regarding it but they also just... know what sounds cool

Mei

Oh i'm very good at promoting my friends' work

I sold his DnD book to a kpop stan who doesn't like DnD and doesn't play, and it was a crowning achievement

eli [a winged tale]

Like for yours I’d probably say... Manta Ray princess finds herself very much dead but is given a second chance to revive her friends and save her kingdom... just need to find someone very much living and very much not afraid of the seaghosts they have become

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

SOLID

though now I imagine Phaedra as a Manta Ray in a dress which is... not entirely untrue

eli [a winged tale]

LOL omg I haven’t even thought of that! Just thought manta Princess is a hook

Mei

Me, pointing at Cheth "I mean look at him, LOOK AT HIM and tell me you don't want to read this"

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

I guess for my work I market it from four potential angles: 1) The princess is cool and has a sword, 2) The villain is the best character, 3) The environments ain't bad, and 4) THERE'S A DOG

again, you gotta know who you're talking to and what they already like

eli [a winged tale]

In a world where a fallen god became trapped in the sea, a dead princess is given a second chance to fight for her life with a mysterious sea-bitten boy and undo the sea ghost curse that plagues the world.

Dammit I repeated world

Mei

hey... the environments are GREAT

eli [a winged tale]

Yeah Lady your environment shots are

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

ok I do try BUT BACK TO MARKETING

The number of times I see someone marketing their comic with very epic-sounding descriptors or broad generalizations... then that one day where they're finally like "oh, I have a character who turns into a hamster at nighttime" and people are like 'I'M SOLD'

And then they go ".... THAT'S WHAT YOU ALL WANTED???"

often it's those little weird details that get people interested

Deo101 [Millennium]

I wanna read about the were hamster please

Mei

sometimes I think the simplest and maybe slightly silly lines are what grabs people?

when things sound TOO epic i feel a bit intimidated

eli [a winged tale]

takes notes

Mei

but if someone were to sell me a big adventure epic as "it's hamsters and they fight the forces of evil" i'd read it

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

god yes

"Four small creatures band together to defeat a great darkness overwhelming their homeland."

No.

"Hamsters fight evil."

YES

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I.... I have no idea how to snappily describe my comics. XD

eli [a winged tale]

Same... I got to kids with wings for hair then my brain short circuits

Mei

i'd say it's the way you'd tell the story to a close friend

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

The best I came up with was 'Teenagers with supernatural powers team up with woodland critters to defeat monsters' but it sounds more adventure-y and doesn't really get at the fact that it's a dark story with horror elements and everyone's mentally ill.

Mei

like they come up to you and go "what's your comic about" "oh you know, my stupid comic's about mutant hamsters that take over the world" or something

(don't call your comics stupid none of your comics are stupid they are great)

Deo101 [Millennium]

"plant man and his goth boyfriend babysitting a ton of bozos" would probably be mine then

Mei

BEAUTIFUL

i'm sold

Deo101 [Millennium]

ghsakgjhgkhkgahgk my target audience...

Mei

i do think tho like this form of comedic one-lining may not work for something dark?

Unless you go "Spooky horror about cats that become humans at night!"

would need experimentation

eli [a winged tale]

It’s a balance I think.

Kids stranded on an island with weapons explore the darkness in human nature - Lord of the Flies

Mei

ooh yeah that's a good one!

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

A space explorer stranded on a foreign planet must join forces with the indigenous population and save his ship before his life support runs out.

Alternately

Small man goes to war with small carrot people

Pikmin

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

@Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios) I wonder if one could describe CoS the way how people might describe Evangelion, but with magical powers instead of mechs.

Teens, monsters, mental illnesses

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Probably. Though I've never seen Evangelion, but those three words work very well.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

The relationship dynamics are way different, but yeah, those three things...

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Also add trauma and cute lil animals and you have Children of Shadow. XD

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Evangelion also has trauma (though I don't know if you'd like it; this isn't a rec, just a promo discussion!) and it was refreshing to see at the time

A teen trying to fight huge monsters, even if he was doing it inside an equally huge mech, could lead to traumatizing experiences, and it was the first time I saw that seriously explored

Hmm, so I guess "teens, talking animals, monsters, mental illnesses feat. trauma" ?

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I don't know if it's similar at all, but that description reminds me strongly of Eureka 7. Wow, was that series intense,

🌈ERROR404 🌈

I really liked how the end happened - it was a nice solution to the lack of budget issue and told the story of his psyche reall well

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Though Eureka 7 was intense in a good way. I found the ending kind of unsatisfying, but admittedly I find the endings of 90% of animes unsatisfying (probably a cultural clash). But I enjoy them for the journey more than the ending.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I haven't watched Eureka 7, but the storyboard artist (one of the storyboard artists maybe?) for that anime is one of my favorite artists.

DanitheCarutor

Ah, a little late, but regarding the snappy promos I'm in the same boat as Cap'n with not knowing how to make one. At least one that would be ridiculous and totally not fitting the darker themes. I agree with all the people who have a generally hard time coming up with a pitch for their work, while having an easier time promoting other people's comics. Honestly my comic can be super boring to people who don't like pretentious, non-fantastical, angsty, character study types of stories. So it's really hard to think of a way to make it sound interesting without spoiling anything. Man! That thing when people come up to you, asking what your comic is about! Me: "Oh! Ah, it's uh, kinda sad and it has uh mental illness" -trails off with uncomfortable laughter- Them: Oh cool. -has a look of complete disinterest- Someone was actually extremely enthusiastic about the vague description of my comic, which somehow made me a mix of uncomfortable and excited.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

I saw the conversation about blurbs and I just thought of one for a comic I'm working on! "An ecologist and a bird have a conversation about ethics"

I haven't started the comic yet so please send your critiques(edited)

and first impressions

(of the blurb)

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

"Angsty character study with a heavy dose of mental illness" <--- Could this descriptor work? @DanitheCarutor

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

kei said exactly what I was just typing

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Great minds

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

oh, i just realized i've read dani's comic

I think your description is fine?

The artsy, angsty comics I follow all have kind of short, tongue in cheek descriptions

it's hard to capture the tone of an emotional comic in one sentence so they either joke about it or make it intentionally misleading

for example Drop Out's description is something like "two friends go on a road trip" and Fritz Fargo's description is "a human dumpster fire in the 90s"

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

The dumpster fire one is insta-effective

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Dani, maybe make your description shorter if anything?

Something like, "An emotionally stunted alcoholic attempts to make amends"

and then follow it up with kei's line about it being an angsty character study

RebelVampire

Im not gonna stop the convo cause it is on topic. However, i do want to remind ppl these #creator_babble chats are permanently archived. So thats something to keep in mind if youre gonna workshop.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

I asked before in this discord about making my own blurb better. The main critique I got was that I included too many things that I thought were interesting and unique that a new reader probably wouldn't care about. Like how the mc's powers work. But though it's unique and important to the story, it's not going to be a main reason someone reads the comic. I revised the blurb to remove extraneous info and make the tone of the comic more apparent, and I think now I didn't lose anything and made it more concise.

I think maybe agtahr could also be summarized a bit more succinctly

DanitheCarutor

Yup, you did once upon a time but said you stopped reading it a while ago. (which is totally fine, the reason is understandable.) The mix of yours and Keii's descriptions do sound a lot better than mine. Lol Thank you Fish and @keii’ii (Heart of Keol)! I've noticed people really like the word 'angst' when you describe heavy stuff. At least when I was a teenager everyone found it appealing. I'll tinker with it a bit and use Drop_Out and Fritz Fargo as a reference. Anyways, I'm going to stop talking now, don't want to bog down the main topic.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

That's a good point; 'the best things about this story' and 'things that should go in its blurb' have an overlap, but they aren't always the same.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Yeah, I did but I'll probably pick it up again eventually. I remember enjoying it. If you do want to keep talking, we can move to shop talk?

mirandalorian

babbling I have the first three episodes of my webtoon ready to post tomorrow and I’m really excited and feel kinda proud that I made it this far...even though it’s not very far. It’s far for me without posting immediately end babbling

Feather J. Fern

I forgot to ask, but if people are tabling at cons, do you guys have promo stuff at your con tables for your comics?

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

Mostly a business card, but yes

carcarchu

i never did but my table partner one year had free postcards she gave out with purchase / to passerbys with her comic info and an illustration on it

kayotics

I always keep free postcards to advertise my comic on the table right next to my business cards.

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Yep, the free postcards did wonders for me last year. They disappeared quickly!

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

Buisness cards and postcards~

Feather J. Fern

Seems like Business and Postcards are the way to go.

Mei

business cards!!

i might be making flyers/postcards for my comic next time though! :D

sagaholmgaard

I haven't done much to promote my comic but I've gotten some good ideas reading through this, thanks! I currently plug my updates in twitter and instagram with a cool/fun panel from the new page. I do also share WIPS and try to engage through my instagram stories (Asking things like, 'what type of benders would the Reclaim squad be in an avatar au' and making doodles for the answers), but that only reaches those who follow my IG. its good fun tho. I've done memes with the characters a few times but I didn't get much attention, LOL. But it's fun so maybe worth trying again

Spring-heeled Jack

Today I went into a locally owned comic shop and went to the guy that owns it and said "I'm a local artist and I'm writing a comic. Could I give you some small flyers to let people take?" And he said yes, and then asked if I have any physical copies. I don't yet but told him I'll bring some by when I have them. He then let me know he carries other local artists! Something cool to think about if you have a local comic shop.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

ooo that's good to know

I droped off my zines at my local comic shop but maybe I'll drop flyers of my webcomic too lmaooo

Spring-heeled Jack

I also just ordered a business card carrier so I can tote some around with ease. I carry my flyers in my sketchbook. You should totally ask, it never hurts! Carry a few extra just in case you find yourself in a new area and find another cafe or comic shop.

I ran mine off on my at home printer on some nice quality but regular weight paper. I might need to get some more professionally done.

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I keep a handful of business cards in my wallet -- that way, any time someone says "hey, that looks cool, what are you drawing?" they get a card with the title and URL. Slowly but steadily burns through the supply.

DanitheCarutor

Seeing if my local book shops will carry copies of my comic when I print them eventually is something I'm kind of excited about! My town is hardcore into supporting local artists and writers, so that'll be something neat to try out. Although I'm a little nervous that the rating might be a little too mature for what the vendors want on their shelves.

I know of using postcards to advertise, but never heard of fliers. Maybe I'll give that a try.(edited)

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

I use double sided business cards, so on one side, it showcases some of my art, and the other side has contact info, a link to my comic website, and a QR code. It's been pretty helpful so far at conventions.

Nutty (Court of Roses)

You guys have all these sophisticated answers to this and my answer is just "scream on every social media platform I can reach and every person I meet about my comic."

Though I may not scream at people irl,,,

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

Let's see... I have a twitter where I repost my comic pages, and a couple mirrors that help reach different audiences. I've also carried around business cards that have my comic's URL on it. One fun strategy I've used is doing review-exchange things, in an I-critique-your-comic-if-you-critique-mine way (with the assumption that most people who read all the way through Super Galaxy Knights end up liking it). Though, that isn't really viable anymore now that the comic is 600+ pages, cuz nobody would ever agree to that trade lol. And... that's pretty much it? Though, I should note that my goal with Super Galaxy Knights isn't to make the most popular comic I can so that I can make a living off ads or patreon or print sales or whatever. If I ever do manage to make money off the comic, it'll be in "spinoff tech" (basically, video games or other media based off it). (it's the reason why a bunch of early Starstuff Stories fleshed out the abilities of the characters they focused on) I would like people to read the story because I think people would like the story, but it's not like my future depends on its popularity.

Holmeaa - working on WAYFINDERS

We (me and Q) are gonna (hopefully) tabeling at cons this year! I thought about doing free non permenant tattoos with our comic things. Also we have beautiful zines of the first chapter to sell. but a free postcard is also good

Desnik

promotional strategies...ah...the biggest thing I did for my first webcomic, RAWR! Dinosaur Friends, was simply update on a general platform (tumblr), using a consistent schedule and the same tags every time. That allowed some of the bigger biology/humor/critter blogs on tumblr to find me and I got a lot of people reading from their generous reblogs. I found some more niche crossover from sci-comm blog comments and dinosaur toy collector forums, because sometimes I'd have a comic that would coincide with paleontology news. It was mainly about finding my niche and bringing my stuff to that niche. To those struggling with finding readers, I would recommend distilling the contents of your comic and then reaching out to people who buy/read things like your comic. I've definitely made friends from general 'webcomic' forums and discords, but in terms of building a readership it's all about finding the niche and catering to it in a human way

In general I highly recommend shopping around for stuff like hobby blogs/forums/groups/discords that have some relation to the content of your webcomic. Those people DO want new content related to their hobby, but they don't really deal well with salesy pitches. Just be human and also a nerd for that hobby, too (nerdy enough to make webcomics about it)

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Yeah, it's like fan comic for an existing IP with an existing fandom, except it's a fan comic of a 'thing' rather than an IP (e.g. you make a pirate comic? Great! Nobody owns pirates, but there are lots of pirate fans out there!).

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

The very first customer I had at the first con I tabled at, came over and said "I like ghosts! I like the ocean! I'll take it!" And wrote me later saying it was exactly what they were looking for.

And honestly it's all because I make sure every cover has something spooky and something watery, and the genres are in the title I make it very easy for people to understand what it might be like.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

omg the genres are in the title

that's genius

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Definitely not planned But it helps so much!

I think if authors have a rule on certain symbols/motifs they MUST make sure come across on covers/posters/etc, that can be a good marketing strategy. With some wiggle room, of course.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I... I feel like I can barely even describe what my comic is, which makes it so hard to market. 'Do you like comics with cute animals and eldritch horrors and angsty teens that have superpowers and hidden religious symbolism everywhere?!? Then my comic is for you!' What even is that demographic, because I sure don't know.(edited)

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

@Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios) If you take away the cute animals part, that actually sounds like stuff a lot of teens are into/ a lot of people were into when they were teens. And most people love cute animals, so adding that to the mix, in theory, shouldn't reduce the accessibility too much. Buuuuut CoS has its unique flavor that's decidedly different from all the "angsty teens, eldritch horrors, religious symbolism" stuff I consumed when I was younger. I don't know how to describe that flavor, nor how to utilize it for marketing. But yeah, maybe some food for thought?

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

I've used short phrases that are sort of representative to describe my comic. Examples include "consensual mind control" "a guy whose ideal life is not being entirely alive" "friendship" and "anticlimactic conversations"

I have no idea how effective any of those are

someone tell me pls

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

As someone who just started reading your comic last night I think consensual mind control is a really cool descriptor. I haven't heard that too much before.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

that makes me happy

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

@keii’ii (Heart of Keol) Heh, I'm not sure what that unique flavour is, either, but it might have something to do with me avoiding the typical 'chosen one' structure that most teen fantasy literature has. The characters are all (except Fawna) a part of the hidden world already rather than discovering it, and everyone's pretty much running around like chickens with their heads cut off rather than having any power over their situation (which is kind of a huge part of the theme of the comic). It's definitely different than the typical urban fantasy, so it's been really hard to find which audience that appeals to. From what I've gathered based on the people who comment on my website, it's mostly academics in college or beyond, for whatever reason. XD

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Honestly I think for almost all comics their first pages were what convinced me to keep reading. Even with Phantomarine I was ambivalent about the description but then I saw the first page, and though, yeah, I'm into this.

Maybe my own comic can be the same way

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Exactly the same with me and your comic - I was also all about that first page It's a powerful thing! I think for anyone about to delve into a comic - which is, by nature, a very visual thing - it's going to be that visual that ultimately pushes them over the edge.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

maybe my description should just be ascii art of my main character O-O | -(edited)

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

^ It's why I tinkered with the first page of HoK soooo many times even after it went live. But it wasn't enough; it still gave off the wrong impression as to what kind of a story one should expect. Finally, more than a year after I started posting it, I redid like 1/4 to 1/3 of chapter one from scratch. Even though it will never be perfect, I can live with it now. chapter 2 on the other hand... It's an imperfect intro to the right story, rather than an intro (good or not) to the wrong story.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

To be honest, my intro probably doesn't hit the right notes to explain what my comic is about, which may be part of my problem. It starts out seeming more like an anthropomorphic fantasy than a dark urban fantasy / horror story. That's just something I think I'm going to have to live with, because I'm tired of reworking old pages (I already do it far too much). I think my best solution is drawing a new cover that showcases the tone and subject matter better than the one I'm using now.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

oh god, you reminded me of the 3 cover pages I spent hours on only to later scrap. Then my current cover page I did in one hour after it came to me at 4am(edited)

and it was perfect

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

and my page redoings were after the reboot.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Cap, I don't know how representative it is of the story but I looked up the Ashes cover page and it's very impressive

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Yeah, I already redrew my intro once.... and this is the third iteration of this comic. And I'm currently redrawing the first two chapters of my other comic. I'm so sick to death of starting over. -_-

@Eightfish (Puppeteer) Oh, thank you!! I like to go all-out on covers, heh.

Kabocha

Promotion... ... is that a thing you can eat? ... A few things I've tried is business cards -- tweeting about it -- posting about it on dA... I try to stay away from services like Tapas and Webtoon because I'm not formatted for those sorts of things, and I fear I'll probably just frustrate myself. It's a delicate balance right now between remaining happy with my work and getting it seen, but overall, I guess I'm not too stressed about it since it's not a source of income for me... I just... like making comics. I've also done conventions -- Conventions are fun, don't get me wrong, but nowadays they're a really low return on interest for many shows for original stuff (except slice of life and "oh no I did a bad" types of zines -- people seem to really enjoy things like that since it's often pretty easy to relate to). They feel like they used to be easier for selling original work, but the market's gotten rougher because there's so much competition and only so many dollars. if I ever print, I'm probably going to have to lean on some marketing-savvy friends for help... Hopefully things haven't changed too much by then. I think the tool that's worked best for me in the past few years has been doing guest comics here and there, as well as using topwebcomics, oddly enough. TWC was pretty good for referrals when I started doing comics way back in 2006~2007...

sagaholmgaard

Since the topic is about promotion... Do yall know if there are any twitter hashtag events for webcomic creators? My friends in the indie game industry have certain hashtags that people can post in during specific times every week - do we have anything similar?

Kabocha

#Webcomicchat!

https://webcomicchat.com/for-creators You may also find this page helpful

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

#webcomicchat is great because you get to talk shop while talking about your own work! It's not just "look at my comic"

sagaholmgaard

Ahh!! Thank you!

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

I know some people do #WebcomicWednesday - not sure how official it is, but it gets some attention!

sagaholmgaard

I'll check that one out as well!

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

There's also #comicartistsunite too

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

webcomicchat always looked like fun, but I definitively am on the wrong side of the globe for the times it's going on

mirandalorian

Promotion is difficult. I always feel like I'm being too pushy, even for something that's free. I also feel like I built up a following that had nothing to do with comics or art and so when I switched directions to head that way, i don't get the response I would like. Reading all the thoughts here has been really helpful tho. Just got to put them into practice

Feather J. Fern

I think my current attempt for promotion is at least being more willing to promote. I have to force my fear of "I shouldn't tell people because it's not as good as (blank)" and just shove my comic into a spotlight

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

If anyone is worried about bothering people, putting variety into your promotions will make things more palatable for people for sure. I have one person on my timeline spamming the same exact post over and over again, almost daily, and it doesn't seem to be doing them any favors There's no need for a promotion every day. The people I see that do a more-obvious promotion tweet, like, weekly, or every two weeks, seem to get good results from that Sometimes less is more

mirandalorian

I need to get to that point Feathery. And ya, daily is a bit extreme imo. But I have to figure out the good balance

Feather J. Fern

Even weekly I don't do it because I feel like I am spamming and I feel awkward

Oh! Speaking of promotions, one way I found I got my comic promoted was by doing guest comics for other people! I got lots of viewers after each guest comic I did

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Yeah, for social media promo, e.g. on Twitter, you want to make your actual tweets have value -- not just things being linked off the tweets. (This is where gag-a-day kinda comics have an advantage, because each strip has entertainment value and you can just post the whole strip in a tweet.) Obviously this doesn't apply to every promo tweet; so like, weekly promo tweet that's solely about the links, as mentioned by others, is fine. But yeah, aside from those, you wanna make your promo tweets fun to read.

Feather J. Fern

Also cameos! Cameos are a great promo

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Not gonna lie, I am lowkey paranoid about doing cameos. Someone I know had to remove their cameo of someone else's character, because that other person objected to their character being in the print version of the comic.

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

Uff

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

oh rip

Feather J. Fern

Oh man, that's rough.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I'll never even print HoK but I can still imagine someone being all "NOPE, I CHANGED MY MIND" at a later time

Feather J. Fern

I am planning to do some cameos for other people, not that Go Figure will ever be in print but I can see that problem. I think what I would say is that if you want a cameo you have to be 100% certain

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Might be a good idea to have a very simple agreement thing you can have them sign

Feather J. Fern

Yeah I was going to have a written consent form

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

"I agree to let you do a cameo of my character, and to not be a jerk about it at a later time. Signed"

Feather J. Fern

Signed and dated by both parties XD

Tantz Aerine (Without Moonlight)

There's also the broad hashtags like #webcomics and even things more geared to genres like #drama and #fantasy and so on. Doing art memes helps sometimes, too.

mirandalorian

What do you think the best hashtags to use are? Is webcomics too saturdated?

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I'm not sure about the best hashtags, but my biggest thing about hashtags on Twitter : don't use a bunch of hashtags in a single tweet!

For broad hashtags like #webcomics or #fantasy, I gotta wonder if anyone's actually checking those out...

mariah (rainy day dreams)

Yeah, I usually tag my update posts with #webcomic and my comic's name, but honestly I have no idea if #webcomic has ever helped out my post ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

mirandalorian

Ya, I typically keep it to two or less, but i always wonder if webcomic is actually useful lol

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

takes note to use something more specific than #webcomic in my next update tweet

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I think it may potentially be useful as a label for someone who's just found you on that platform, and is not sure what you're promoting. But beyond that...

Tantz Aerine (Without Moonlight)

I usually use #historicalfiction and #webcomic. Not sure which one helps more, but well, there it is.

mirandalorian

Ya, I should use the genre tag too.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Do people even search genre tags for that matter lol (a bit pessimistic, but still a genuine question)

like, I'll be the first to admit, I don't hashtag search to look for new comics to read. I don't think I ever hashtag search ANYTHING, unless it's like..... a very active trend that I am interested in (e.g. an upcoming video game that I'm looking forward to)

Tantz Aerine (Without Moonlight)

Well, the tags are popular enough to be suggested by twitter so I'd think some use them, probably likeminded folk.

mariah (rainy day dreams)

Same keii. I mostly use hashtags to look for fan art, exclusively on Instagram.

Tantz Aerine (Without Moonlight)

There's also a trend of "art sharing" tweets. I have found a couple of artists and webcomics through that kind of event, but again, the turnover isn't anything to write home about.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I wonder if readers make use of the search more than us creators do?

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I doubt it, Lee

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I never use it as a reader, at any rate, though I don't know if others are like that.

mariah (rainy day dreams)

Though, actually that's not true, I have used hashtags to look at more things being posted within art events. So inktober, mermay, hourly comic day, etc.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

But art event hashtags are useful, because -- like I mentioned before -- those tweets provide entertainment value without anyone having to click on offsite links. e.g. the #StartToFinish tag that's hot right now.

mariah (rainy day dreams)

I have followed new artists from those tags though and then checked out their off-site stuff. It's definitely a more round about way than someone specifically looking for comics to read via hashtag

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

From my limited observation, when people are looking for comics to read, they tend to ask for recs rather than do hashtag search?

"Anyone know of some good magical girl webcomics?" etc

which is a bit of a bummer for us creators, because that is completely outside of our control. Nothing we can do about it.

Tantz Aerine (Without Moonlight)

here's the popularity for the #webcomics tag

So SOME people use it.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

@Tantz Aerine (Without Moonlight) I'm gonna guess it's mostly creators using them to promote, rather than readers using them to search.

Tantz Aerine (Without Moonlight)

Also it seems to be peak in popularity in the USA

@keii’ii (Heart of Keol) the graph implies interaction, really.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

What counts as interaction?

Tantz Aerine (Without Moonlight)

tweeting it and searching it

what I'm saying is we can't know.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I don’t so much in Twitter, but I personally DO search hashtags on Insta to find new art.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

It's true, we can't know. I just personally can't imagine anyone searching for #webcomics to find stuff to read

mariah (rainy day dreams)

Insta is definitely hashtag game city.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Yeah, IG is a different beast

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Comics don’t generally gel so well with Insta’s format, though, so I’m usually seeking art and not comics.

Tantz Aerine (Without Moonlight)

just to be safe, occasionally use it

To be honest, I'm probably more likely to find and become a fan of webcomics here on this server than any social media

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Yeah, I wouldn't say "don't use #webcomics" -- use it if you have no other, more specific tags to put. But on Twitter, you don't want too many hashtags, so if you got more specific ones... use those instead!

Tantz Aerine (Without Moonlight)

I feel somewhat self conscious in getting an instagram. But I'll get one most likely.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

It might be a good idea to switch up your tags regularly? Choose two or three from a relevant list each update and see if any of those tweets get a noticeable boost in engagement.

Tantz Aerine (Without Moonlight)

Yeah that sounds a good strategy

speaking of, any other creators into historical webcomics?

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I don't seek them out, but there's some that I read.

Tantz Aerine (Without Moonlight)

yours is touching upon the historical keii with the joseon-style elements.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

It's definitely not historical but yeah, got the aesthetics going for it!

Tantz Aerine (Without Moonlight)

Yeah!

I must admit, I'm a bit starved for like-minded creators. I mean people that create historical webcomics. I know and follow a few but that's not nearly enough.

(if I'm babbling too much for creator babble please tell me!)

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Babbling is fine! But this might be better for #general or possibly shop talk as it's not related to this week's topic?

Tantz Aerine (Without Moonlight)

oh sorry, there's a specific topic here too?

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Yeah, all the channels under CTP Activities have a... topic thingie that changes weekly

Tantz Aerine (Without Moonlight)

okay got it. I'll take it there. Sorry :/

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Don't be sorry, be glad to chat about this stuff in another channel

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

With insta please be mindful that if you‘ll always post with the same hashtags, their algorythmn likely will assume you‘re a bot.

mirandalorian

Oh really?

I definitely did not know that.

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

Yup, it‘s a big annoyance. At least it was that way half a year ago, how is the algorythm now? Nobody knows.

I kinda hate insta, but it‘s the platform with the most interactions for me, although I don‘t know if it goes beyound liking my panel cutout.

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

Instagram does it‘s darnest to lock the user into theor own ecosystem.

mariah (rainy day dreams)

Yeah, hard same. I definitely get the most likes there, but I get very few referrals from insta.

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

Funnily, the only social media where I KNOW I got at least one reader from is pillowfort and their teeny-tiny webcomic comunity!

mariah (rainy day dreams)

I keep wanting to hop over there, but also starting a new social media sounds exhausting TuT one day.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I need to start using PF

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

It‘s pretty chill, reminds me of the hey-day of livejournal, with great filtering - more intended to create many small communities than one giant pot like twitter.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I don’t think any platform’s algorithms like me. I get very low engagement no matter where I post. I’m just not good at figuring out what these platforms pick up.(edited)

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

I still have three invites left for this week.

Tantz Aerine (Without Moonlight)

Does cross promotion work for you guys at all?

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

A little bit? But I think my comics are a hard sell, so I generally don’t get a lot of referrals when I cross-promote with other creators.

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

It‘s how I found this community; but otherwise, nope.

Tantz Aerine (Without Moonlight)

Now I need to check out your comics Lee. I'm intrigued!

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Haha, if you want to! If they’re not your cup of tea that’s a-okay.

mariah (rainy day dreams)

I still have three invites left for this week.

@chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa] if you don't have plans for those invites, I would definitely take one and follow you first

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

About the hashtag thing on Twitter..... I have found the hashtags #webtoon #webtooncanvas and #celebrateCANVASday to be particularly useful for those of us publishing on Webtoon Canvas. I have gained a few new readers from this, and the official Webtoon Canvas page often retweets when these hashtags are used.

mariah (rainy day dreams)

That's good to know. I'm planning to start mirroring on Webtoon so I'll have to be sure to remember to use those tags.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I need to fix my series on WT first. But I'll give those hashtags a try once that's been done

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I tried using webtoon hashtags a few times, but their page never retweeted me. It seems either random, or there’s some hidden requirement for getting a rt.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

i use the tag sometimes but I found it more responsive if you have a vertical scrolling format comic

then they're more likely to respond to you

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Oh, yeah.... I use a traditional page format.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

same rip

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I do combine all my pages into long episodes at the ends of chapters, so it’s kinda scrolling, but they’re just traditional pages stacked on top of each other, lol. WT definitely doesn’t like that, but I don’t have the time to reformat hundreds of pages.

Feather J. Fern

Also promo thought, I randomly joined people's streams before and then got hooked on their comics after seeing them draw on twitch or something like that

Pistashi

I struggle a bit with promo stuff, because I get too self-conscious about self-promoting and I'm the type of person that ends up doing too much of it or none of it

at the moment I'm working on making a press kit and sharing it with some blogs and networks about comics

but still, what I usually do is join groups and try to talk with people that works with art and comics

this is kind of more inclined to networking and meeting new people to talk about what we like than promoting my work to potential readers

nothing wrong with that, but looking with a more critical eye I still have a lot to learn about building an audience and reaching people who could become future readers

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

I wonder HOW much a large social media following is worth. Insta‘s shown me that it isn‘t necessarily translating into readers.

carcarchu

in my experience followings on different platforms are non-transferable. same goes with having a large following on your comic itself, doesn't necessarily mean having a lot of followers on your art accounts. that's why they say "don't build your sandcastle in someone else's sandbox"

Pistashi

that makes a lot of sense

kayotics

If you’re building your following around your own content (original art, comic updates, etc) then the likelihood that the following is transferable is higher, but it’s still not 100%. You’re competing with everything else on their timeline too.

RebelVampire

i think a thing to consider with webcomics especially when it comes to social media is that a good portion of people who follow comic creators on social media are other comic creators, not people who are just readers. and the good majority of comic creators do not have a lot of time to read other webcomics. While there are certainly exceptions, I see those very few and far in between. So the conversion rates for social media right now are super low until the dynamic of the communities on the platforms changes.

kayotics

I’d agree with that, but also having a social media presence has definitely opened up some doors to being seen by other creators, many of whom are professionals. It’s good for networking, might not be the best for gaining and retaining readers.

RebelVampire

Oh yeah for sure. My point was about conversion factor

its factor in networking is a whole other matter entirely

and is indespensible

kayotics

One thing that I didn’t mention for myself is that networking has helped a LOT with getting new readers. Word of mouth, is always the best way to advertise, and other webcomic people giving you a plug can see some really strong results

#ctparchive #comics #webcomics #indie comics #comic chat #comic discussion #comic tea party #ctp #creator interview #comic creator interview #creator babble

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comicteaparty · 5 years

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February 24th-March 1st, 2020 CTP Archive

The archive for the Comic Tea Party week long chat that occurred from February 24th, 2020 to March 1st, 2020. The chat focused on Whispers of the Past by Crona J.

Featured Comment:

Chat:

Comic Tea Party

BOOK CLUB START!

Hello and welcome everyone to Comic Tea Party’s Book Club~! This week we’ll be focusing on Whispers of the Past by Crona J.~! (https://www.webtoons.com/en/challenge/whispers-of-the-past/list?title_no=191366)

You are free to read and comment about the comic all week at your own pace until March 1st, so stop on by whenever it suits your schedule! Discussions are freeform, but we do offer discussion prompts in the pins for those who’d like to have them. Additionally, remember that while constructive criticism is allowed, our focus is to have fun and appreciate the comic! Whether you finish the comic or can only read a few pages, everyone is welcome to join and chat with us!

DISCUSSION PROMPTS – PART 1

1. What did you like about the beginning of the comic?

2. What has been your favorite moment in the comic (so far)?

3. Who is your favorite character?

4. Which characters do like seeing interact the most?

5. What is something you like about the art? If you have a favorite illustration, please share it!

6. What is a theme you like that the comic explores?

7. What do you like about the comic’s story or overall related content?

8. Overall, what do you think the comic’s strengths are?

Don’t feel inspired by the prompts? Feel free to discuss anything else that interested you!

FeatheryJustice

So far, first impressions, holy cow the art is amazing.

Ash🦀

1. My favorite part about the beginning was the style. It immediately drew me in how everything was lovingly rendered in color that made me feel like I was seeing the world for the first time. It made me want to paint, too! 2. When we first see the man. Whoo buddy. Whoooooooo buddy. That was... a finely sculpted painting there. I could’ve framed him and hung him on my wall if the artist would let me. WHOOOO BUDDY. 3. My favorite character so far is Martel. I don’t write them often, but I love seeing kids in media, and I love the design of her hair. I know it’s a random thing to make me like her but I just... really like her hairstyle. She’s cute, and I’d guess she’ll be a breath of much-needed light air later in the story. 4. Mystery man and Martel are precious. 5. I point to answer 2 here. That lovingly sculpted chest? My heart was a-flutter I tell you what. 6. The art style is just... SO LOVINGLY RENDERED. The quiet moments of baking bread juxtaposed against a chaotic battle was SO. GOOD. Aaaaaah Could also be that that particular part is my favorite part of making bread so it was extra special aaaaaaah 7-8 I haven’t seen enough of the story to answer these yet! But the art is banging and I can’t wait to read more. Subscribed.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

I've read this before and the art and story aren't really my thing. Since critique is allowed I could give art comments if CronaJ would find that kind of thing helpful? But even though I won't be following the story I was still impressed by how much care the author puts into it. Both from looking at their comic and from reading their comments on this discord and on the tap forum it's clear they've put a ton of effort into the art and story, and haven't cut any corner.s And all the panels are so rendered. I wonder how long it takes to draw a page?(edited)

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

Hey everyone! I'm the artist and writer of Whispers of the Past. I want to thank you all for your kind comments and observations so far. It really means a lot to me to hear what others think of this heartfelt project. I know that the story is in the beginning stages right now. But I'm looking to post the end of the first chapter this week, so hopefully a bit more will be revealed soon. Please feel free to ask me questions about anything, or (to answer @Eightfish (Puppeteer)'s question), to offer critiques for how I can improve what I'm doing.(edited)

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

@FeatheryJustice & @Ash🦀 I'm glad you enjoy the artwork. The painting process is probably what takes me the longest when it comes to pages. In response to @Eightfish (Puppeteer)... It takes me around 30-40 hours per page, and I try to post 2-3 page updates. Obviously, the amount of time spent per page varies depending on several factors, such as: the number of panels, the level of complication of poses, how many characters/background elements there are, and sometimes just whatever weird reason my brain isn't working that day ^^; So for my average 5-7 panel pages, they typically take longer than, say, a full-page spread. @Ash🦀 I'm so happy that the first few pages pulled you in! I spent a lot of time deciding on how I wanted to draw those panels, and what style to use, etc. I actually redrew the first 3 pages at least 5 times before settling on them as they are. And, you can hang and frame the image of our male MC if you want, haha, I actually don't have prints of it, but it is something to consider That particular panel was a one-page spread, so I was able to dedicate a bit more detail to it. Maret is a worthy favorite character. She is too pure and precious, and she just wants to make friends with everybody. Even when the "strange man" is kind of curt and unfriendly to her, she wants to befriend him. Also, I am SO unbelievably glad that you picked up on the juxtaposition in the bread-making scene! Ahhhh! I had a lot of fun with that one

FeatheryJustice

1. The Pacing, I love slow starts to comics because I get to absorb it and learn more. 2. Favourite Moment? Dude trying to climb out the window and failing. That was really funny XD 3. Mysterious dude from the water of course. He has pointed ears, you know something is up. 4. I like Maret and the mysterious man, it seems like a child being like 'this is new and I want to learn more' Also thank you for not writing a grating child character. They sometimes turn up too pure to be real, or too grating because they are too real. Maret at least has that nice balance of a healthy child will not acted spoiled but still want things because child like the scene where she was shoo'ed out of the room. 5. I think we talked about htis a long time ago, but I love the way you draw hands and feet! 6. Nothing so far, not sure where the story will head so I can't answer this. 7. I like the start of the mystery and the slow ramp up. We are just getting comfortable and I'm sure we are going to get rocky soon! 8. Art, from seeing Cronaj spend so much time on it, it's freaking amazing. I can almost feel the characters come to life.

Also on a side note, I want Maret to hear from the Conch shell (As a memey joke) "Under the sea, under the sea" XD

(Mysterious man has red hair, I wouldn't be surprised he turned out to be a mermaid XD Sorry I'm just on slight crack theory mode right now. He didn't sell his voice though)

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

When I was first writing and planning this comic, I was a little scared about how slow the start was, but I'm glad that it has been interesting despite the slow nature of the exposition.

2. Favourite Moment? Dude trying to climb out the window and failing. That was really funny XD

@FeatheryJustice Accurate! He's kind of an idiot, and he panics over nothing. For Maret... I actually based her character partially off of my two younger sisters, so that might be a lot of what contributes to her personality and realism. We did talk about hands and feet before! I love drawing hands, because they are so expressive and complex, but hate drawing feet because they are complicated. But I did study from life to draw Maret's feet, because I felt like I would mess it up otherwise ^^;

Hahahaha! I could definitely make an edit of that, tbh.

FeatheryJustice

That would be a funny joke panel if you ever want to do one. XD It's like replace the diaolgue memes XD

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

And I was partially making a mermaid joke when I had the reference to mermaids in the comic because he is a redhead

Definitely an idea....

I would title the episode "Whispers of the Crack"

FeatheryJustice

OMG YES I would love to see that XD

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

I have a WotP meme folder on my computer already

carcarchu

1. What did you like about the beginning of the comic? Mystery man pretty 2. What has been your favorite moment in the comic (so far)? i liked the part where maret was listening to the conch for mermaids, had a lovely magical charm to it 3. Who is your favorite character? mystery man 4. Which characters do like seeing interact the most? not too many interactions so far but maret and the mystery man were cute 5. What is something you like about the art? If you have a favorite illustration, please share it! the sunset scenery had a nice vibe

also i can see why people were saying it reminded them of ruroni kenshin, mystery guy especially with his hair up and on the cover image is reminiscent of kenshin but storywise doesn't remind me of it at all

carcarchu

I have some critiques that i'll cover in case you don't want to see them. SPOILER The anime-ish emotes (the blush and the anger vein) to me clash against the realistic artsyle and detracts from the moments, some more subtlety with them would be appreciated. And Maret doesn't really look like a child to me, her face is very mature so it makes her look older than she is. Moreover the 3 characters that have been introduced thus far have very similar facial features. For maret and agatha they are siblings so it makes sense but the mystery man is (presumably?) not related to them so i'm not sure if that's intentional. In any case more facial diversity would be appreciated going forward (if it's just your style that's fine too). And this is a really small nit-pick but the first panel of chapter 6 has horse hooves with the sfx thump thump thump. In my opinion this sfx should be clip clop clip clop END SPOILER

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

@carcarchu Thanks for the notes! I actually had a hard time deciding how to portray blush noticeably in a more realistic style, haha, but I can definitely see why it's jarring. Do you have any tips for how to depict blushing without anime emotes? I would just make it more reddish/pink, but it always looks weird to me (or too unnoticeable). As for Maret... She looks like a child to me? She's six, so she isn't quite a toddler, so I don't know if that changes your perception of her. She actually resembles my youngest sister a great deal, and my youngest sister was 5, almost six, when I designed her. (I just looked through the pages again, and there's maybe one panel that I think she looks slightly older in, so if anything, I'll try to fix that panel.) So yes, obviously Agatha and Maret look very similar, hahaha. They are biological sisters, so that makes sense. There will be at least two more characters introduced that are also related to them (and look fairly similar as well) and one character who will be mentioned who is also related and looks just like Agatha. Other than that, Izrekiel does look somewhat similar, I suppose, but it might also be partially that he canonically has a very feminine face as opposed to other male characters to be introduced later. It could be that and also a bit as a result of my style. I'm not sure. Ahhhh, sound effects! I also struggled with deciding what to do here. I wanted to do something different than "clip clop," mostly for a stupid personal hang-up. (I don't know why, but "clip clop" always looks so comical to me.) But if it helps translate the sound better, I might just have to bite the bullet and change it. Thanks for your feedback! Even if I don't agree with all of it, it does help me to take a closer look at what I've done with some different eyes. (edited)

carcarchu

That's fair! You don't have to accept anything just my thoughts (i hope nothing i said was too harsh) for me thump thump is a dull sound whereas clip clop or clippity clop is a sharper and harsher sound

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

yeah, I think you're right about that

thump is more like a heartbeat

or someone falling on carpet or something

carcarchu

and as for the blush question i think there are ways to depict a similar emotion without relying on the blush itself as a short hand like the softening of the eyes, the shape of the eyebrows, looking down and heck even body language can help with this. expression is more than what is shown on just the face

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

Thank you. I always feel like my characters look too stiff, like mannequins. ^^; I'm probably not going to completely redraw any old panels at this point, but I might make a few alterations to these panels to make it more consistent with later panels down the line.

carcarchu

i also noticed that a lot of your panels are the characters looking straight towards the "camera" and i would appreciate more varied angles and perspectives

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

Particularly with the first ten pages, that is certainly true

I got that note before, but I didn't redraw every panel, only some which looked particularly bad.

carcarchu

personally i never edit old chapters unless i 1. forgot to draw something important 2. there's a huge typo 3. it's missing a panel

any critique you can just keep in your heart and implement if you choose to do so moving forward

keii'ii (Heart of Keol)

2. I really liked "what if it's mama?" - a lot of hints condensed there: family history, how the topic of deaths/ disappearances are handled around children (either in that family specifically, or in that culture), and also a moment that shows a glimpse of Agatha's sisterly love instead of having the readers assume it.

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

Really loving the comic so far! Right now, I'm most interested to learn about this family situation. I'm guessing their mother is dead or missing, but what about their father? I suppose his clothes were still in the house so maybe he just went out? Or maybe they're both missing and it was just fairly recent?

Also, the paint-y style of this comic is just incredible

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

https://media.tenor.com/images/878a64d90a1139bcb1e863ee29bfa929/tenor.gif

I'm so happy that you guys picked up on the clues about their mother. It alludes to some pretty plot heavy stuff that very few people have really commented on so far.

eli [a winged tale]

Oooh I’m so excited for your story Cronaj! Here are my answers~ 1) I love the beach scene! Maret with the shell is adorable and you established their relationship right away 2) Fav moment is probably the scene transition to our lad waking up with Agatha going about her day. It’s very peaceful and I’m a sucker for slice of life stuff. 3) Can’t pick just yet~ I like Agatha as a solid protagonist though. 4) More Agatha x mystery man please 5) I loooove the illustration aesthetics. Bold colours! 6) haven’t gotten to the core theme yet I’m sure but first impressions/meeting are always exciting. 7) I’m excited for what is to come. Can’t wait for the call to adventure. 8) Strength is definitely the art - beautiful and bold. Keep up the wonderful work!

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

@eli [a winged tale] Woah!!! You're the first person I've heard say that they like Agatha! She's mah girl! (And don't you worry, there will definitely be a lot more Agatha x Mystery Man ) Thanks for participating

eli [a winged tale]

she’s a solid sister!

sagaholmgaard

1. What did you like about the beginning of the comic? I like how the intro had a nice balance between art and text. Usually if there’s a lot of text on the first page I can get deterred from heading a comic, but here I think it worked really well! And the loverly painting of the ocean sunset also reeled me in and fit really well with the poetic text! 2. What has been your favorite moment in the comic (so far)? ”He’s the prettiest man I’ve ever seen!” LOL (and she’s right too…) 3. Who is your favorite character? I like the kid! But I’m excited to learn more about the other characters as the story goes on! 4. Which characters do like seeing interact the most? I liked Agatha and Mystery Man interacting, it felt very natural and I’m curious to see what comes of it. But the dialogue felt pretty strong which I gotta applaud 5. What is something you like about the art? If you have a favorite illustration, please share it! The beautiful shot of Mystery Man on the beach of course, lol! I love the way the hair is rendered, it really feels like it’s has weight and is spread out in the sand, if that makes sense? 6. What is a theme you like that the comic explores? It seems like it will explore a lot of interesting themes in the future, such as grief and finding where you belong, so again I’m interested to see what the story brings! I’m sure it’ll be good no matter what :D Overall I like what I’ve read so far! It’s not the type of art style I usually gravitate towards, but I can tell a lot of love is going into rendering and I think we’ll be seeing Crona’s art improve a lot as the story goes on, which is always exciting to see!

RebelVampire

What I like about the beginning of the comic, which also goes for what I like about the art in general, is the attention to detail in the background colors and lighting. I've never seen such a beautifully rendered (what I assume is) a sunset. It really makes everything have this great almost mystical atmosphere to it. In general, though, the art so far is definitely the comic's strength because you can see the sheer passion in every drop of it. My favorite moment so far is when Maret gives Izrekiel some flowers and then drags him off and he's just meekly protesting. It was both cute and comedic and the preciousness hurt my heart. This is also why this is my favorite pair of characters interacting so far. I think the age gap combined with the context of Izrekiel's situation is gonna lead to lots of awkwardness that I look forward to. As for fave character, though, I would have to go with Agatha right now. I don't know what it is about her, but everytime I see her I feel like I'm looking at an old soul. Like maybe someone who still has a lot to learn about the world, but is wise beyond her years in other regards. And it makes her a captivating character for me.

While I'm not sure if this will be an overall theme throughout, I like that the comic starts to deal with the theme of loss and hope. On one side you have Agatha who just kind of accepts loss and deals with it, and then you have Maret who just lives on in hope. And I kind of feel they represent two dynamic sides to the issue about whether its better to cling to hope or just move on and deal and how both can be harmful if not expressed in the correct way. As for overall story content, while we're not that deep in, I do like it starts with a multitude of mysteries cause mysteries are always great for making ppl want answers

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Since Crona said they were good with art critique: The main thing I noticed when I first saw the art was that, though lovingly rendered, the characters' faces and bodies are kind of stiff. They don't really scrunch up their eyes and faces when they emote- it's mostly just the eyebrows (this was especially noticable when Maret was crying, or on the latest page, first panel, where Agatha's face doesn't really match her body language or words). And characters often don't seem to twist their bodies as much as they should. Oh- also the same camera angles of faces and bodies are repeated a lot. Front, 3/4, and profile. It'd be cool to see some shots with foreshortening from above or below the characters. Also the lighting is pretty diffuse- the characters seem to be shaded about the same way, and with the same colors, regardless of the lighting situation. I can still tell where the light is coming from, because there are those strong bright highlights in the direction of the light, but other than the bright highlights everything else seems to be shaded as if there was another light source coming from straight ahead. Also, sometimes characters seem to lose their shadows? Like on this page https://www.webtoons.com/en/challenge/whispers-of-the-past/ch-1-what-the-waves-left-behind-pt-3/viewer?title_no=191366&episode_no=4 where Agatha doesn't cast a shadow on the man, or this page https://www.webtoons.com/en/challenge/whispers-of-the-past/ch-1-what-the-waves-left-behind-pt-8/viewer?title_no=191366&episode_no=10 where they're running.

Those things being said though, I was still very impressed by the sheer amount of effort put into this comic. 100 hours/ update is absolutely insane. And you pay so much attention to the inanimate objects of this world. It makes the story feel grounded. About what someone else said: I agree that the cartoonish blush looks out of place. But I disagree about Maret- I think she does look like a child. 5. Favorite illustration? Definitely Agatha's hands when making dough. Not a critique but just a question: I was confused on the location of the story. Where is this?

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

Ooof. Finally got a chance to sit down and respond to all these comments. I keep rereading them over and over again, so thank you so much for sharing your thoughts everyone! I've noticed a few themes with what people have commented so far: Maret is most people's favorite character, the panel of Izrekiel on the beach is also very popular, and the theme of loss/grief is apparent to the readers (which I'm very happy about.)

@sagaholmgaard I'm glad that you mentioned the theme of "finding where you belong" too, because it is and will be a very prevalent theme in the comic. And reading your comment about how the dialogue seems natural made my day. I used to worry about how the dialogue came off constantly, and to hear that it's strong is so encouraging.

@RebelVampire As is expected, your comments are very thought-out. The interaction between Izrekiel and Maret after he falls from the window is one of my favorite moments so far as well. I'm happy that Izrekiel's behavior came off as meek in this scene, because that is one of the defining traits of his personality. I'm glad for another Agatha fan! She is such a fun (and difficult) character for me to portray. There are so many layers about her that even I am still discovering. She is definitely an old soul, and he experiences growing up have definitely matured her beyond her years. As I mentioned before, the theme of loss is definitely a major theme of the comic overall. And hope as well, since I think the two are very connected.

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

@Eightfish (Puppeteer) Thank you for offering your critiques! Character stiffness is definitely one of my major problems that I'm working at. I definitely see what you mean about Agatha's face in the latest update. Her eyebrows look painted on (pun not intended). I have been looking forward to having some more dynamic poses, especially foreshortening, but I do find it somewhat difficult when most of what the characters are doing so far are standing, sitting, talking, and maybe doing something with their hands. ^^; Hopefully, in the future, when more "action" happens, it will be easier to do this. As for bird's eye or worm's eye shots, I'm not gonna lie, I struggle with them so much. I had two bird's eye panels, and those took so much time, and I still don't know how I feel about them. If you have any tips for exercises, I would be so grateful. (Finding reference isn't always possible.) I also would love some tips/resources on how to get better at lighting. Again, lighting reference isn't always possible for specific panels, so it would help me a lot to learn how light works in general. OOOOOOF! I don't know how I missed the lack of shadow on Izrekiel in that panel. That was 100% a stupid oversight on my part. The scene with Agatha making dough had some of my personal favorite illustrations for a while. :) Also, your question about the location, I'm not entirely sure how to answer it?(edited)

It's a high fantasy story, so the location is entirely fictional.

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

The best I can answer that is to say that the story takes place in a country called Shai-Ryam, consisting of four major "districts" in a semi-tropical temperate peninsula called "The Aka Peninsula," named after the native people who originally lived there. As of right now, they are in a city called Gon Atam, a seaside village on the western shore of the Nuata District, near the Ocean of Saturuna. It is a city heavy in trade and with a long history, yet quaint and small due to a disaster several hundred years ago. It is only now being repopulated.

Comic Tea Party

DISCUSSION PROMPTS – PART 2

9. Where do you think Izrekiel comes from, and what is his past history that seems to haunt him? Additionally, how do you think he wound up with amnesia and seemingly abandoned by the sea?

10. How will Izrekiel’s past history affect events of the story? In particular, how will revelations about his past affect his relationship with Agatha and other characters?

11. How do you think Agatha’s life will change from her encounter with Izrekiel? Will it somehow lead her to a more exciting life? If so, will it make her miss her simpler life with her family?

12. What are the biggest questions you have so far and are hoping to see answered over the course of the story? Also, what do you think will happen in the story in general?

Don’t feel inspired by the prompts? Feel free to discuss anything else that interested you!

Ash🦀

9. Okay, so, here’s my theory. Just a guess. So Izrekiel is from a very war-friendly people up north who need land. Izzy just isn’t all about that life, but feels like he has no choice. Then he gets hurt fighting someone close to him (I’m putting money on brother or cousin who lives on the “wrong” side of things, hurt because he just couldn’t fight them at full strength. And then he realizes he can’t do it, while on the ship bound for new fight zones. His captain gets wind of it and is like “oh no I can’t let Mutiny Happen” so HeS all long ike “either fall in line or get off my ship” and Izzy is like “no I don’t wanna fight anymore heck you guys” and the captain proceeds to yeet him off the ship, leading him to the island, which, unbeknownst to him, is the next target. That’s my guess. Might be wildly off. He might be part mermaid. (Merman? Is mermaid gender neutral?) 10. Izzy or his bros probably killed one of Agatha’s family members, possibly the mom? Possibly violently? Which is why she never told babygirl what’s up. It’s probably going to be remembered in the buds of their relationship, hes going to try to hide it but it’ll come to light and she’s gonna be like “Izzy I hate you” and it’s going to make me cry. 11. She’s going to have a bread making partner in the end. They’re going to have adventures and go back to a domestic bread making existence, I speak it into being now /smacks table That may just be what I want to happen, though, as I very much enjoy bread making and wish others the same simple joy of giving dough a good smacking. 12. IS THE MOTHER REALLY A MERMAID OR WHAT Is Agatha a mermaid Are they like Selkies where they can come onto land a little Is babygirl a mermaid too(edited)

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

Omg... I love reading these theories. I won't say you're wrong or right, but this is a riot. I'm thoroughly enjoying this.

FeatheryJustice

9. Pulls out my Crack Theory brain Okay, so Iz is actually not a very hot man, but actually a really hot princess, transformed into a man since she was exciled from her country but their rules are to give the exiled a new life so they shape shift them into something else. Iz got shifted into a man, and the lovely wide bare chest was because their top was lost to the ocean like how someone would lose their bathing suit top to the sea. Anyways, knowing nothing about themselves, Iz now lives their life as a man never remembering they were a princess in the first place. Ends Crack Theory 10. Don't know, can't say for now. 11. She could always politely kick him out later, so I can't say for now. XD 12. I want to know if there are monsters in this story or just like different species warring it out.

RT|NitghVision

^ I like this theory

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

@Cronaj (Whispers of the Past) Oh! I missed that it was high fantasy. I thought the story was historical fiction. No wonder mystery man has pointed ears. I was so confused- I kept thinking, oh, she looks Polynesian and lives by the ocean. But wait, her name is Agatha and she makes bread? And the houses look Japanese? What culture are her clothes from? The world being completely fictional explains all that. I think I was confused by the real names in a high fantasy story- you don't really see that a lot. Finding the right reference for lighting or pose is impossible for me. I have no tips. The only way I've found is to make my own references. I will sit in front of a window, or take a lamp into a dark room or something, and prop my phone up and take photos of myself in the poses and lighting direction I need. But hey, at least that way I don't have to worry about stealing someone else's work?

(i also like feathery's theory)

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

@FeatheryJustice Crack theories are best theories.

@Eightfish (Puppeteer) Oh! I had no idea you thought it was historical fiction No wonder you were confused! There's a lot of weird cultural-mixing shenanigans going on in the setting, and it's a bit confusing.

I should try that, for now the lighting has been primarily sunlight, or diffused sunlight (which I don't think I depicted correctly).

RebelVampire

Time to crack story theory. I don't know enough about the world to guess a name to where Izrekiel is from. However, wherever it's from, I get the impression its embroiled in a bloody war that is suffering heavy casualties. I imagine that Izrekiel mightve been in a battle and just wound up in the sea by circumstance - like maybe was taken as a prisoner of war and jumped overboard to escape. Something like that. As for the amnesia, well, Imma chock that up to PTSD cause the brief flashbacks we got don't look pleasant. However, I definitely think someone will come looking for him, and that these someone's will make trouble with the people he's just met - perhaps even forcing them to abandon their home with people in pursuit. And I'm sure as Izrekiel remembers more, others are going to really view him as potentially dangerous and blame him (but then get over it cause he's pretty O_O) Given that, I do think Agatha is gonna leave home because of Izrekiel's past running after them. I do think she's inevitably gonna miss the simpler life. Not to the point she won't rise to the challenge, but to the point that she's gonna be like "wait theres danger out here and i didnt even get a sword from an old man in a cave!" As for biggest questions, right now I'm just kind of hoping to see more of the world cause current world events really are gonna dictate a lot where the story could go.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Dude I was literally googling the names to see what country they were from because I thought they were from some obscure real island with a history of cultural mixing that I hadn't heard about before.

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

Hahaha! Yeah, Agatha is an English name. Maret and Kelan (a character that hasn't been introduced yet) are Irish names. Aalia (another character that isn't introduced yet) is an Arabic name. Kehhasan (another character) is a made-up name. Izrekiel is a made-up name inspired by the biblical names Israel and Ezekiel (although technically it is often spelled in their alphabet as "Isarikieru," which has a particular meaning and pronunciation in an even older—fictional—language). Ryukou (another character), is a real-ish name, based off of the Japanese names "Ryu" and "Kou," which mean "dragon" and "peace/light" respectively. Four other characters have fictional names: Ia, Tammamori, Soro, Ghita (although technically it's a Greek name, that wasn't my inspiration). And of course there are hundreds of side characters with a combination of weird names and name origins.

Comic Tea Party

DISCUSSION PROMPTS – PART 3

13. What are you most looking forward to seeing in regards to the comic?

14. Any final words of encouragement for the comic?

Don’t feel inspired by the prompts? Feel free to discuss anything else that interested you!

Deo101 [Millennium]

So! I don't really do so well with answering questions, but I do want to say it's inspiring to me to see just how much WORK is put into this comic. It's really lovely to see so clearly how much you care for it. Just want to give some general words of encouragement, keep it up!

Ash🦀

I’m most looking forward to seeing more of Izzy how the story develops along with your painting. There are so many hints and peeks at the world, and I can’t really guess where it’s going. I feel like I already care for these characters, and I can’t wait to see their journey. I am also not good at encouragement, as generally I’m fueled by spite. But I just wanted to say, keep going! You got this! We believe in you!

eli [a winged tale]

Keep up the good work Cronaj! Your art is beautiful and I can’t wait till we start rolling into act 2!

FeatheryJustice

I'm excited to see what else comes up next!

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

Thanks for all the kind words and encouragement everyone! I'm so happy to know that you are enjoying the story so far!

RebelVampire

I'm most looking to learning a bit more about the world structure I think. Since I think current events are really gonna hint at a lot what's going on. As for final words, this is an artistically wonderful comic with a lot of love put in, and I can only imagine how things will improve in the future!

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

I'm just really looking forward to seeing these characters grow! This is a beautiful comic, and I can't wait to get more of it!

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

Before the book club ends, I just wanted to pop back in and say thank you to everyone for their participation. Your kindness, insight, and critiques will stay with me for years to come. I'm so happy to have found a supportive community of readers and fellow creators!

Comic Tea Party

BOOK CLUB END!

Thank you everyone so much for reading and chatting about Whispers of the Past this week! Please also give a special thank you to Crona J. for volunteering the comic and creating it! If you liked Whispers of the Past, make sure to continue to support it via some of the links below!

Read and Comment: https://www.webtoons.com/en/challenge/whispers-of-the-past/list?title_no=191366

Crona J.’s Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/cronasonlyfriend

Crona J.’s Ko-Fi: https://ko-fi.com/cronaj

Crona J.’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/CronajArt

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