#this isn’t even about byler rly

[eddieydewr]

why do mlvns find it impossible that relationships don’t last forever, especially as teenagers? it’s adult mlvns who say it, not just kids so it’s bizarre to me, lmao. “why would mike suddenly leave el after 3/4 years?!” i dunno, i managed to suddenly leave my ex after almost 5 years and we were 14 when we got together. it happens. adults staying in their first relationship that started in middle or high school aren’t common.

[queerxqueen]

out of curiosity, what do you think the duffers could have done to help mitigate the homophobic fandom? do you just mean making byler canon earlier, or dropping heavier-handed hints/clues/foreshadowing that are harder to dismiss in the show? or are you thinking something they themselves could’ve done in real life, like actively going out of their way to support pride month or something like that?

i’m also thinking abt how the show presents itself, on several occasions, to be very anti-bullying and how it prides itself on celebrating those who might be considered losers, weirdos, and outcasts. but because this idea is never really explicitly stated or emphasized in the show, casual viewers tend to gloss over it, or miss it entirely. is this the duffer bro’s fault? is this an indication that they could have done more? done better? and do they have a moral responsibility to educate those who are intent on missing the point?

maybe! i don’t rly know how i feel. i love the show, i love byler, and i do agree that there are certain moves the duffers have made that i’m not 100% happy with. also the idea of a gay plot twist is kind of…. you know, fun, but not the best. however, i also try to keep in mind that these are two (presumably) cis straight men and so, i cut them some slack and i immensely appreciate what they’re trying to do (assuming ofc they are moving in a canon byler direction).

for them to establish two canon queer relationships in a mainstream show that i love that isn’t centered around queerness??? i could cry tears of joy just thinking abt it, and so i feel i’m more compelled to dismiss some of the mistakes the duffers make along the way.

anyway, sorry that the ask is ridiculously long (feel free to ignore it, or only address a small part of it if it’s too overwhelming!). i hope it makes sense, though it might just come off as incoherent rambling - whoops. i’m honestly just speaking recreationally lol, but i’d love to hear some more thoughts frm you on the subject if you’re willing!

Agh, thank you for the ask, I love hearing your thoughts!!!

[Re: this post]

To touch on the first/main question - what could the Duffers have done to mitigate the homophobia?

There's a lot they could have done.

Within the show, if they're intending to make Byler canon, which I do believe they are, I think that season 4 should have officially broken up Mileven and also have had an undeniably, overtly romantic moment for Byler that the GA can't miss. Even if the final cabin scene had a hand touch rather than the shoulder touch, that would have been enough for me. Because yes, to me, and you, and 250k other Bylers, it has been obvious; but for the GA and Milevens, they have purposefully left enough wiggle room to keep them on the hook. Again, I respect the straight-bait, but if they're prioritizing straight-baiting over protecting their queer fans, that's not a great look.

But to me, much more important is what they could do outside the show. While there are occasional posts about Byler on various Stranger Things social media, I feel like there is so much more that could be done to show support to the ship and its queer fans, especially if it is endgame.

They could have explicitly and overtly addressed Will's sexuality on all channels after the release of season 4 instead of leaving it to Noah Schnapp.

They could have explicitly stated in an interview that Will is an equally viable love interest for Mike as Eleven is going into season 5 instead of prioritizing shock value and spoiler avoidance over the wellbeing of their queer fans.

Most vitally, they could have acknowledged/addressed the presence of homophobic fans and bullying in the fandom and explicitly condemned hateful folks as misunderstanding the show's core values. Take for example how Rick Riordan responded to racist fans criticizing the casting for Annabeth & Grover:

"The negative comments she has received online are out of line. They need to stop. Now. Anyone can be a hero. If you don’t get that, if you’re still upset about the casting of this marvelous trio, then it doesn’t matter how many times you have read the books. You didn’t learn anything from them."

After season 4's confirmation that Will is gay, they should have made an outright statement along these lines, that hate is unacceptable and that those who are hateful are fundamentally opposed to the values of the show. Instead they (or at least, Netflix) is more preoccupied with maintaining the general audience for as long as possible, even at the expense of the often-more-dedicated queer fans.

Really though, I'm more happy about a queer relationship being canon in such a mainstream show than I am upset about the lack of support for queer fans, because ultimately, this queer relationship and representation is offering support in a lot of ways. But they're doing this while also spending years allowing some of their biggest fans to be gaslit into thinking they're "delusional" for interpreting what the show is saying.

I guess ultimately I just feel like, if they're going to engage with queer stories and queer characters, they also have to have some responsibility for mitigating the negative impact they can have on real queer fans and queer spaces.

[mayahawkins]

2, 4, 19, 23 :)

2. Are there any popular fandom OTPs you only BroTPs?

probs elmax, like i get it, love me some lesbians but i love lumax too much to fully ship them or even rly read fic for them bc it feels wrong to have them be in a romantic context. same with any ship involving mike and will that isn’t byler. like it feels weird to read fic for byclair or wheelclair bc byler just makes so much sense to me and their relationship is so different from the others within the canon of the show that i have a hard time thinking of it differently, even for fic. but idk how popular those pairings are. but defs elmax i only like platonically.

4. Do you have a NoTP in your fandom? Are they a popular?

does melvin count? lmao bc fr a major notp. i guess u could say they’re popular

19. What is the one thing you hate most about your fandom?

honestly, not much. i’m v chill when it comes to fandom stuff. i hate when people are henry apologists and try to justify his actions but that’s about it. i also hate when people reduce characters to their relationships. like there so much to each of them individually and people should appreciate that more

23. Unpopular character you love?

is anyone rly unpopular in the st fandom? maybe dustin? i love that lil nugget, he’s so cool and he definitely deserves way more of a character arc as a main party member

[strangerfigs]

ok but like will knowing exactly what Mike is saying and relating completely to it in 4x4… like is it rly so crazy to assume that mike relates exactly to what will says in accordance to how he feels in 4x8? (but mike is feeling it about will but thinks will is talking about el) (and mike says he is scared el won’t need him anymore, not that he is going to lose her, and - !) ugh idk what I’m even saying but like. literally. i need to know if mikes feelings are reciprocal. do you ever feel crazy. i feel crazy. i just need to know. i need to KNOW! also isn’t el’s whole arc in s3 about not needing mike? and being strong enough on her own? didn’t he already learn this lesson? I’m losing my head. none of it makes sense but the general audience… it’s not seen by them. they don’t see the subtext. but it’s there. it’s everywhere. it’s impossible to unsee once you see it. byler-ism is a curse.

[astrobei]

Also any other fanfic writing tips? Do you have thoughts on chaptered fics vs longer one-shots? Do you ever struggle with characters feeling ooc?

I'm working my way up to finishing a couple WIPs and am very very nervous about posting them on ao3 😬😬

ooshdjsfh i think it’s funny when ppl ask me for writing advice bc i am a Mess but i will try my hardest to be helpful w this!

for the first bit, personally i’m a fan of oneshots, both writing and reading (there are exceptions for both ofc!!) just because i usually don’t have the attention span to write or read chaptered fics unless they’re finished and under 5 chapters ! but both of my chaptered fics are/were chaptered literally because i wrote too much to make it a oneshot without it feeling kind of clunky and awkward LOL i don’t usually write fics with big fleshed out plots anyway, and it’s more like a general storyline with a focus on individual scenes instead of the overarching plot, so i’ll write it all in one go! and i always write more than i think i will, so stories i plan to be like 10-15k ALWAYS end up at least 20k somehow 😭 personally i just rly appreciate when chaptered fics are consistent w uploading (as much as possible for the author) because it’s really hard for me to commit otherwise, which is why i don’t rly write them myself!!

and Oh My God anon,, i struggle CONSTANTLY w characters feelings ooc im always so concerned w my mike especially, since so much of s3 and 4 was more will pov and we didn’t get as much of an insight into mike’s internal struggles and thoughts like we did with will (the castle byers scene, van scene, jonathan talk, etc) so i’m always worried that the way i interpret him is not the same way that others might! and characters like lucas and dustin and max are easier since their povs in the show have stayed pretty consistent since their first appearances, and even will is easier for me to write (although i prefer mike which is pretty obvious maybe LOL) but mike Stresses Me Out a lot,, whew !!

if ur having trouble w that my advice (or at least what i do, take it w a grain of salt siskfjsjf) is think whether or not u could imagine this character saying that in the show. like, if this dialogue was added to a scene would it feel weird and out of place? do they usually use words like that? are there words used in the show specific to this character? (e.g: robin with “dingus”) i do take a lot of creative liberty w characters like mike and will especially when writing fluff fics, since so much of s4 and the end of s3 has been Sad and we haven’t gotten much humorous interaction from them, but i always try to ask myself if it’s true to their dynamic. like, mike would never ever pull off being suave and cool (except maybe in will’s unreliable narrator pov) because he gets flustered and is kind of an idiot and will is canonically a little bitchy and a little snarky and one of the only people who can put mike in his place so .

and thinking abt their motivations and Why they act/think the way they do: in byler’s case for example, will is selfless to a fault where he keeps putting other people before him, he’s so scared of his own needs making him selfish or a bad person that he often backpedals too far trying to amend that (s4!!) but he gets frustrated pretty easily (he’s the one that’s Started both of the infamous byler fights, the one that blows up first) and isn’t afraid to call mike out on things !! vs mike who tries really really hard, and has so much love for the people in his life but he’s inexperienced in it and doesn’t know how to show it in the way they want (saying ily to el, being a good friend to will) and a lot of his own inner monologue being fueled by the fear that the people in his life don’t need him anymore and yk . stuff like that . idk i just think abt these things a lot when i write!

anyways i am not qualified in the slightest to give any of this advice so FEEL FREE TO IGNORE THIS !! but anon if u ever end up publishing those wips (pls do) PLEASE don’t hesitate to drop me a link i’d love to check them out! posting fics can be rly scary but my advice would be to have as much fun with it as u can! play around w tropes and dialogue and writing styles and povs as much as u want. it can be easy to get caught up in writing what u think ppl want to read or thinking u Have to write smth bc someone asked for it but literally just write whatever u want (that’s like . not insane and awful for obvious reasons) and enjoy urself!!

hope this helped !! <3

[me-n-michael]

hey i’m a tumblr byler and only rly go on reddit to vote on the poll and you don’t have to listen to me, but could you please refrain from promoting the poll? it it getting us a lot of hate and the point of the poll is supposed to be honest opinions not just choosing one that isn’t your favorite. that might not be what’s happening but every comment section has people mad that they are being downvoted for even pointing out what is factually happening and l are always generalizing hypers as a whole. feel free to dissagree with me and i’d actually prefer to hear your thoughts :) ok ty for reading have a nice day

It doesn't matter if I, or other tumblr bylers share the poll or not. We will get hate no matter what. I've been stalking the ST subreddit for a while, and a lot of them hate bylers for stupid reasons. And everyone on here is picking their least favorite each round because that's what the poll is about: picking your least favorite until it boils down to your favorites. Being downvoted for being a byler, even if you are calm and reasonable, is inevitable. Reddit midlevens are just salty about this whole thing and bylers in general. It's a public poll on a public subreddit. I don't see the problem at all, especially since it's completely harmless. Reddit midlevens are making it a bigger deal than it actually is.

To restate, they will always hate us (until S5, at least). Whether that's because they're scared we're right, or because they're homophobic, or whatever; promoting the poll on here doesn't do much. It only collects more ST fans for the poll about ST. They're throwing tantrums because their OTP has lost. And I get it, but some of them are really crazy about the whole thing (I won't say bylers aren't the same, but reddit melvins are a nightmare). I may have gotten a little carried away myself, but that's only because they really get on my nerves; so rooting for byler until the very end is a rewarding experience.

Thanks for the ask :) I won't be sharing the poll anymore anyway, though, since byler made it to the top 4 and that's good enough for me.

[mayclair]

Isn’t too late to make Byler in season 5? There are only 8 episodes left and there’s no time for love stories but to fight Vecna. I hate this but i have to be realistic. Also it’s too late to make bi/gay the audience would be confused af.

hm idk honestly i would say yes but they rly Could do it as long as they write it well actually . will being confirmed as gay and mike being confirmed as bi even if by/ler doesn’t happen would be fun tbh + it would explain why mike didn’t write to will over those eight months when they were seperated and him being a douche bc of his conflicting feelings towards will . also it’s not like there hasn’t been buildup to it lol (all the s2 scenes “it’s not my fault you don’t like girls” etc) and it’s rly not about the confusion locals will take any ship the duffers give them like i’m so serious. just look at eddie/chrissy

now that’s my delusional feelings but the reality of the situation is that mi/leven is still there and the fact that they’ll have to break up to make by/ler happen which,,,,,,,, doesn’t sit right with me bc 1) if they were really pushing the whole “mike loves el el loves mike they’re in love” narrative and even using will as a plot device to further their relationship they would have literally no valid reason to break mike and el up last minute and 2) it is completely unfair to el’s character who has spent nearly every season in love with him . while you can argue that it’s first love and she’ll get over it no she won’t because mike was the first person to show her real and genuine kindness and love from that day in the woods until now. every other person who supposedly has been nice to her before him did it to manipulate and control her which is why i think they deserve a proper breakup where they see that they rly aren’t right for each other romantically and that their relationship would be better as platonic friends and definitely not because of mike’s feelings for will or whatever because the realization that el loved Another person who didn’t truly love her back in the same way she loved him would literally break her heart especially after mike’s monologue in s4 and i. really don’t want that because she doesn’t deserve that not after everything she’s been through

like if we had say two or more seasons i think it would’ve been possible 4 them to write all this in but if they have rly left it for the last season i just think it would be way too much drama between characters especially when idk there’s a huge big scary monster threatening to take over the world and snap ur bones and gauge ur eyes out but that’s just me. anyway all of this boils down to the duffers and they way they decide to write their season lol so there’s no way to say for sure