#tr theorie

[dedef7890]

Spoil 269 and Theory

OK, I just read the last chapter ( 269 ) of Tokyo Revengers, if you haven't read it don't continue reading this because there will be spoilers and theory.

Well, so as we could understand Shinichiro did not go back to the past to prevent Mikey's dark impulses but to prevent the fall and therefore Mikey's vegetative state. Therefore, this is the original timeline, is as the chapter says, the most heartbreaking.

Mikey is alive, however the injury he suffered has made him vegetative, like a plant. He therefore has no more consciousness, he no longer thinks, no longer reflects, and no longer feels any feeling. (It really hurt me because my uncle is in the same situation)

So coming to the theory, I think Shinichiro became a health care provider (He helps people with reduced mobility and handicapped people) I say that because of the badge he has around his neck. Otherwise this badge is simply a pass. However I rather think that he became a "nurse" for Mikey.

Second theory, Mikey's dark impulses are after-effects of his vegetative state, this is unlikely, however it must be taken into account. Mikey's dark urges don't seem to cause him to feel any empathy or emotion, which is very close to his situation in the original timeline. Also, Mikey's eyes in this chapter look a lot like the eyes that Mikey has been discussing for several chapters.

Third theory, somehow Haruchiyo knows about the first timeline, possibly Shinichiro from the future who told him after Mikey hurt him, which allowed him to forgive Mikey for this. what he did to her. which could also explain what he said to Senju "That she doesn't know the truth"

That's all I had to say. This is the worst chapter I've read in all of the manga combined. Being in a vegetative state is far worse than dying, is saying this is the original timeline. I try to reassure myself by telling myself that it's in the past but I can't stop crying.

Bonus theory, I think the character on the cover of volume 30 is going to be Shinichiro or Takemichi (Probably Shinichiro or both at the same time)

[theoutcastrogue]

My thoughts on the best strategies to preserve human knowledge and creation in perpetuity

1) don't put all your eggs in one basket

archives need to be paper and digital, public and private sector, centralised and decentralised, fully legal / by the book and rogue, in vaults and cabinets and servers and torrents

create as many redundancies as you can: make copies, and copies of the copies, and copies of the copies of the copies, ad nauseam; anyone anywhere who can make copies, should

spread the physical hubs (paper stacks or servers) geographically, in as many places as possible; you never know what kind of natural disaster or man-made horror will take out a whole building, city, region, or continent tomorrow

2) entropy is a bitch, think longterm

pick methods that are more likely to last

schedule regular copying: you gotta transfer the stuff to a new medium before the old one falls apart, so have some idea when it's expected to fall apart

3) keep converting to new formats

no format becomes obsolete instantly, there's always a transition period; use transition periods to furiously convert everything

4) indexing and searching is as important as the content itself

self-explanatory

5) eyes on the prize: the end goal is public access

if a random nobody, with no status and no money, can't access it easily, freely, and anonymously, the job is only half-done; you've built the back-end and neglected the front-end; get someone to complete it ASAP, because now it's just sitting pretty and isn't doing anything; or isn't doing enough, in any case

bonus: use. fucking. torrents.

It is truly bonkers that the bittorrent protocol is not being used for archiving. It's an ideal method for digital archiving and it should be standard procedure. If a university has stuff on a hard disk, it can put it on its server, and if it can put it on a server, it can torrent it and seed it 24/7. If the same archive is useful for another university on the other side of the planet, that one can download it and then stay in the swarm, also seeding it. If a library or city council anywhere on earth finds the archive of interest, it can do the same. The more the merrier, every download is a potential redundancy and every seeder is an actual redundancy.

If you got space to store it, you got space to share it. And of course, any private individual can at any time join the swarm. So we get excellent preservation (with multiple redundancies, spread far and wide geographically) AND public access, global and free, which is what preservation is FOR in the first place! It ain't for the heck of it, it ain't only for the eyes of the elite, it's for everyone, that's the purpose, that's the end goal. If that's not your end goal, you're doing it wrong.

[wakasaz]

I miss the tr fandom from 2021-2022

[negai-no-astro]

do you have any theories on the brothers powers?? we know hibarus power but what about the rest?

I think the brother whose eyes are closed has like body regeneration!

Ok so these are probably gonna be very off but hopefully we can look back after we know the info and laugh at this. We'll start with Shio, his is the one that kinda confuses me the most but we know it's powerful. There's also a lot of rubble around him which makes me think either hid ability is very destructive or it protects him in some way, maybe invincibility or something.

Glasses guy has an eye over his head and it seems like he was holding his glasses when astro happened, which we know is important. This kinda feels like some kinda sight ability, being able to see something that others can't. Though it's also an anime trope for characters to like push up their glasses while planning or doing something smart so it could be something to do with that. I'm kinda thinking it might be like seeing thoughts/ thought manipulation. (I was gonna say being able to see parts of the future but that feels very close to tr and Takemichi so I'm not sure Wakui would want that).

That other guy just seems to have a big sword, I'm sure it'll have some kind of other ability attached to it though like being hard to break or something.

The sister has something entirely separate from her??? I'm kinda thinking it's like a rocket that she can attack with??? That or it's surveillance, she can use it to watch others and get info.

I actually didn't think of that for eyes closed guy! But I think that makes more sense then what I was thinking, I was thinking he could like detach body parts and reattach them like for attacking. But regeneration seems like the better shout.

Ponytail guy's is too hard to see but I honestly hope he gets magical hair just because that would be cool.

Not sure who all the limbs belong too (it could actually be ponytail guy??? If not then kou???) but that just seems like someone who can use extra body parts.

And I'm guessing the guy with the alcohol will have some kinda drunken fist type thing going on, where he drinks it and it makes him stronger or does something to him. (I am a bit suspicious about the clouds though and how we can't really see him properly).

[illwynd]

What direction would you have enjoyed most for Thor and Loki after TDW?

I recall in the long dry years between TDW and TR, a large part of the conversation in the fandom around this topic was on how pissed off Thor would be when he learned that Loki hadn’t actually died and had kept that fact from him (or “faked his death,” however you wanna phrase it) and how much trust would have to be rebuilt. And there is definitely that aspect of it. I think there was trust that needed to be rebuilt on both sides, in fact, and many long-overdue conversations about everything that had gone wrong to get them to that point. Conversations about Loki’s ancestry and his miscalculation with the Destroyer and all the questions Thor didn’t ask when Loki reappeared and not visiting him in the cells and ancient resentments and so many other things. 

But most of the fandom, in the discussions I’ve seen, seems to have been hoping for resolution between them, for things to get all healed and tied up in a tidy little bow and have their character arcs just ride off into the sunset and… yeah, I don’t want that. I never wanted that. There is way too much emphasis these days on “healthy” and “wholesome” and, goddamn, like what are y’all doing looking at these two if you’re looking for therapist-approved wellbeing? You’re digging in the wrong place. (Something that I feel is carried over from Norse mythology into their characters is the idea that there is value and importance in lives that don’t have a Happily Ever After, worlds ending in destruction and final defeat but with a deep integrity to what mattered. The world doesn’t promise healing. Sometimes, living with the knowledge that things will not be fixed in the end but it all matters anyway, and the connections between people matter, and the ability to find flickering moments of joy amidst the sorrows… to me that is far better, far more fitting to who they are than any tidy, happy resolution could ever be.)

One of the things that I love about many of their comics arcs is the sense that while things do change between them over time, with different emphases coming into focus and into prominence, there is an essence to both of them that keeps them in perpetual conflict and ALSO keeps the love strong enough that neither of them ever wants to go their separate ways permanently. They both have their own lives, with Thor doing his best at heroing and Loki doing his best at being himself, but Their Relationship is a constant, and it’s nobody else’s business, and whether they’re on opposite sides in their daily lives doesn’t really factor into it. 

So basically, in my ideal world in which phase 3+ didn’t suck, TR would have involved some of those long-overdue conversations and some working together against a bigger bad, but the kiss-and-make-up would have been incomplete, like an unresolved chord at the end of a phrase of music. Loki would have disappeared again but this time making sure Thor knew he wasn’t dead, and he’d have popped up again from time to time, always with uncertain allegiances, to have a few poignant interactions with Thor, or to absolutely destroy some big bad that’s threatening Thor’s life but in the meantime doing something that makes it seem like he got some material gain out of doing so (just to keep everyone on their toes), and if anyone questions this in Thor’s presence you’d get a very stormy look and a subtle suggestion that he doesn’t have to be slumming it on Earth. 

Loki would be there to be The Most Important Person in Thor’s life even when he’s not physically present, and the niggling itch that never quite goes away from the fact that things aren’t resolved and may be unresolvable. (Having a relationship like that—where it is possible or likely that things can’t be fixed—is actually really important to telling Thor stories that have emotional weight. Resolving the relationship or making the question null through death cuts off so many of the important questions that cling to Thor in themes and resonances. To a character who embodies the virtue of striving for heroism and goodness, an unquenchable love for such a liminal character as Loki, whose moral standing flits all across the field at any given moment, and having Thor see that not as a problem, as a liability or an inconsistency but instead as a value in itself—that keeps Thor from becoming an insufferable, inflexible moral pedant.) And Thor—Loki’s love and devotion to Thor, mingled with his resentment of him and the lingering frayed edges of his trust and the centuries-old anger and desire to win against him just once—would be there to rest like a base color underpainted beneath everything Loki does in his schemes and clever workings and, a gnarled anchor or a rusted root, keep him from wandering too far afield.

And, I mean, they’re gods. If you carry any story on long enough it ends in death, but in a story of superheroes and modern legends, the gods should still be there in the end, at the edge of the tale, perhaps, but continuing nonetheless, spinning against the stars, the huge half-invisible shadows of giants bordering the far horizon, the cycles of their lives so much longer than ours.

[torchickentacos]

 Throwback to that time Drew tried to kill team rocket

[historiawon]

we, as a society, should not forget how "insane"* naoto tachibana can be. he quickly believed a stranger who saved him about their future in 12 years, got called "crazy" for overworking and info-dumping all he knows, giggled when the said stranger/hero was called "shabby" in the said future, digged in every info possible to help change timelines, and managed to Adapt to Each Change of Timeline. he's really amazing, it's crazy.

*i said insane for the lack of a better term, but what i want to say is: batak siya. thank you.

[harumybeloved]

why is sanzu like that?

i’ll try my best to explain his behavior and some potential reasons behind his actions 

no, he’s not a psychopath

no, i don’t think he has stockholm syndrome

no, it’s not bpd (imo)

i really hope this entire post makes sense (well if it doesn’t lmk)

welcome to my autistic sanzu agenda lol

disclaimer 1: i’m not really used to writing character analysis, i only know how to write random research papers for school so i apologize in advance lol pls forgive me but this post is probably going to sound like i’m rambling a lot + punctuation is my worst enemy 

disclaimer 2: this post isn’t me diagnosing him with autism or any other disorder. it was never officially stated that sanzu is autistic. this is purely my own personal speculation + understanding of his character + some observations 

disclaimer 3: i was diagnosed with hfa+adhd, keep that in mind; i could be projecting and it’s entirely possible that this whole post is just my exceptionally elaborate hc lol

disclaimer 4: this may not be in chronological order i’m also not the best writer :/ + i’m still editing this sometimes

‣ his “questionable” behavior lol

link to the original translation

strange and/or unconventional behavior is a common symptom of autism as it is strictly correlated with the absence of social awareness because who in their right mind would do that.

Autism spectrum disorder is primarily characterized by impaired social interaction and limited social-emotional reciprocity.  This impairment goes well beyond poor social skills and being socially awkward.  Children with autism spectrum disorder tend to have a disconnection in their response to others.

(...)

In general, these children are described as very socially and emotionally withdrawn, and “being in their own little world.”

from here

A social norm generally refers to something that society or culture renders “normal.” Everyone is expected to automatically understand and adhere to these unwritten rules, and diverging from the “norm” may be considered “abnormal.”

(...)

An example of a social norm in the United States is that avoiding eye contact is often interpreted as evasive, nervous, odd, or “shifty.” As autistic folks often avoid eye contact, neurotypical people may interpret their behavior as going against the “norm.”

from here

While most people can navigate these changing expectations, some individuals with autism and Asperger’s Syndrome struggle with them constantly. These individuals may have difficulties reading social situations or knowing what type of behavior is expected in certain circumstances.

from here

anyway; it’s also important to note here that people on the spectrum tend to absorb most information not in a figurative way, but rather in simple terms 

Autistic people seem to take everything literally. 

(...)

Autistic brains, however, don’t automatically group anything together, and instead file everything as a separate piece of information with no apparent similarity to anything else

Well, first it’s important to recognize that it doesn’t come from a lack of understanding of what’s being said to them, but from a difference in processing the information they’re taking in.

from here

let’s say, hypothetically, for the sake of the argument, that haru is on the spectrum. there’s probably a really simple but logical thought process going on in his mind.

mucho (the captain) has certain enemies, he also doesn’t have that much hair on his head lol but his enemies do. so why not beat them up and forcefully take their hair and offer it to mucho as a gift. he’s probably going to think wow what a kind gesture, right???

People with an autism spectrum disorder think in a logically consistent way that leads to quick decision making.

from here

tldr; imo he didn’t know it was a weird thing to do and that he shouldn’t have done that. it was probably beyond his comprehension. that’s why he thinks captains are difficult; there’s a disconnect and lack of awareness.

side note:  whatever haru did above here just screams autistic child without the appropriate guidance to me (somebody that’s also on the spectrum)

side note2:  this dude literally fights with a fucking katana. he could’ve chosen anything but thought that a katana would be the most suitable weapon of choice to slaughter other teenagers in september of 2008 ....ok..

‣ this very specific interaction with baji in cb3

this was haru’s interaction with baji at some point. keep in mind that they were childhood friends or best friends, they always hung out together. it’s safe to assume that baji knew haru pretty well. 

now.. (yes i know) baji saying that haru has always been weird isn't concrete evidence to support my theory. 

HOWEVER ,,imo wakui shows us a lot of things intentionally, he could’ve included some other interaction with somebody else but he didn’t. why? maybe because this is supposed to help us understand haru more and give his character more depth. 

ok so let’s dissect this. haru asks baji about something really simple/usual, something that's already really fucking random but ok people talk about those things right? haru also decides to ask baji at the weirdest time possible. baji literally just announced that he’s leaving a gang that he formed and haru’s like yes this is the perfect moment to ask him about his haircare routine <3 lol

Individuals on the autism spectrum often have difficulty recognising and understanding social cues and therefore do not instinctively learn to adjust their behavior to suit different social contexts.

from here

u could probably say that oh well baji is just like that, he would say something like that at any given moment. and yes he is (or should i say was lol) chaotic but nevertheless it’s a really random thing to ask at a really random, inappropriate moment and baji kind of pointed that out but again haru wouldn’t know if he was actually somewhere on the spectrum. 

as i said before, i do think that how the characters communicate and what kind of words they use in certain situations is supposed to give us some insight into their personalities. with that said, it kind of stuck out to me when baji called him weird and his only response was i see thanks. my personal reasoning here suggests that some people would probably get agitated when called weird but idk. 

so now it’s possible that 1. he’s fully aware of what baji called him but doesn’t care and/or is used to being called weird (which again most autistic kids are used to) or 2. such ”insults” rarely evoke a response because he has a hard time recognizing irony (i don’t think the word weird is generally speaking an extraordinarily disrespectful insult when used among friends but maybe that’s just me idk)

Verbal irony can serve many social functions: Speakers can temper the aggression conveyed by criticism, or praise conveyed by a compliment (the Tinge Hypothesis), while bringing humor to a situation. A full understanding of ironic language requires one to make complex inferences about speaker intent, a task that can be challenging for individuals with ASDs who might have difficulties with mentalizing in social contexts or with the interpretation of ambiguous stimuli.

from here

side note:  i think it’s so adorable that he actually said “i’m going to miss u”. he didn’t have to, although that’s a completely reasonable thing to say in such situations. this isn’t really related to my theory about him potentially being on the spectrum but it’s such a cute little detail. i think it ties more to the theory that at the end of the day he’s a kindhearted person that’s “gone bad” due to unfortunate circumstances and the environment he grew up in. again, wakui didn’t have to include this line because well they’re gang members, idk if i should expect them to be verbally affectionate but they’re also kids dealing with complex issues so it’s not that surprising to see this if that makes sense. toman haru is so different from bonten sanzu for obvious reasons imo it’s self explanatory

‣ takeomi’s treatment & its possible implications

i will not be judging takeomi’s parenting skills because he wasn’t supposed to end up in that position in the first place but like come on.. he put so much pressure on haru (could be completely unintentionally yk he had his own shit to deal with). i don’t speak japanese and maybe it was originally worded differently but based on this english translation, it’s so obvious that takeomi just really harshly criticized haru for making mistakes (and for not doing the best job at something he’s not responsible for and has no prior experience with)..... why not tell him what to say instead or idk do anything other than just basically saying u are doing it wrong fuck u. there’s just so much wrong with the way takeomi communicates with him idek if i should go any further, this seems self explanatory. he just keeps criticizing him instead of like teaching him or providing some kind of guidance at least idfk

some might say here that maybe it was just this one time that he scolded him for not properly raising his younger sister at the ripe age of 10 years old or sth but imo wakui included this for a reason, to tell a story and show us that it was probably a repeating pattern

and now we’re here. clearly haru doesn’t take takeomi’s criticism well (which was honestly expected from a literal child). he doesn’t understand any of it and why he is blamed for everything. 

personally, i think this really fucked with him on a subconscious level (because.. yk ..those topics can be quite incomprehensible for 4th graders that just learned multiplication). hearing all the time that u keep doing things wrong and that it's your responsibility which u should've known somehow from somewhere? 

ok this sounds like i’m excessively explaining the tremendously concerning and detrimental effects of child abuse so why am i even including this in a post about asd? well.. 

Many autistic people are highly sensitive to criticism, even more so than most people in general are. For many of us this may be due, at least in part, to childhood trauma. Many of us were bullied. Even among those of us with relatively non-traumatic childhoods, most of us grew up being criticized and corrected a lot more than most kids are. Many of us live in constant dread of doing something wrong. Many of us have developed a deep emotional need to be "right" at all times.

from here

lol does this sound familiar?

imo what and how takeomi talked to haru made him internalize this idea that whatever he does is wrong and that he should always do better. i included this quote here because (at least from my personal experience) people that are on the spectrum always just have “something wrong with them” and always just should “try harder” to be “normal”. (not my opinion btw, this is just what we constantly hear from allistics). 

i guess it’s not that weird to say that well maybe if haru didn’t actually do anything wrong, then he shouldn’t be stressed about getting scolded because again, he’s innocent right? well i’m gonna have to disagree 

kids are kids and their brains are still in the early stages of development; let’s assume that an adult (or a parental figure that holds some kind of authority to whom a child looks up) keeps telling said child that they are doing something incorrectly, eventually they will start believing it regardless of the actual circumstances. 

autistic people tend to be more sensitive to criticism for obvious reasons as mentioned above so harsh (and unreasonable i’d say) criticism is probably going to affect them to a larger extent 

he’s just scared and confused; (also potentially physical) abuse is not a concept that’s particularly difficult to understand

so let’s say, hypothetically speaking, for the sake of the argument lol that haru is somewhere on the spectrum and is already struggling with being somewhat different than most kids. it’s enough for a child to feel inferior and then there’s also takeomi adding even more pressure, basically triggering those very specific emotions. 

we can see that this entire situation (and the cause of it) is beyond his comprehension. haru doesn’t understand why but he now knows that somehow it’s always his fault because he always does things wrong. that is a lot to take in for any kid, especially those who are on the spectrum. 

my personal take on why he can’t talk back to takeomi: he was already conditioned to think that whatever he does will never be enough or satisfactory which has already affected his self esteem. let’s say, hypothetically speaking, u think that u always do everything wrong and somebody (wrongfully) accuses u of something really random... u probably aren't going to argue with them and will most likely say something like “yeah nothing new honestly” instead. bad example ik but i think that’s where haru was at in this chapter; he already felt worthless and scared in 4th grade, at the age of like 10. that’s so young to feel that way and it breaks my heart :// 

Many people with autism experience a triad of trauma: neglect at home, abuse from trusted adults and bullying at school or work.

(...)

Studies suggest that children on the spectrum are up to three times as likely as their neurotypical peers to be targets of bullying and physical or sexual abuse. Such maltreatment can cause severe stress and trauma, yet it often goes unrecognized or unreported. 

from here

we can already see that possibly around that time, he’s already begun isolating himself from others or at least developed some kind of subconscious tendency to stay away from them (as a self defense mechanism). i assume his 10 year old brain correlated abuse with just simply existing around others

i think it wouldn’t be surprising if that reasoning stuck with him throughout his entire life as the human brain technically remains in the developmental stage until mid to late 20s.... and below is even proof

anyway moving on; due to the fact that people on the spectrum are much more likely to experience any type of abuse, it’s not that uncommon for exploitation to take place. 

up until this point, we’ve established that 

haru was already struggling with his self esteem and possibly feeling inferior to some degree in his childhood (which by itself could make him a target of exploitation) but also 

the possibility of him being on the spectrum can most definitely increase the chances of him being abused and used by others as described below

Neglect in particular is a problem for children with autism, as well as for those with intellectual disability. Neglect is the most common type of maltreatment documented by child protective services.

(...)

Autistic children are also vulnerable to physical abuse. Primary caregivers in the immediate family are the most common perpetrators of the abuse, but a broader range of offenders — including family members, babysitters and childcare providers — may be more likely to target children with autism or intellectual disability than other children.

from here

TW // disclaimer: the following part mainly illustrates the correlation between sa and autism. based solely on the manga and the direction in which it’s going, i personally wouldn’t say that haru is clearly a victim of sa (although technically it’s still possible) but imo there’s not enough factual evidence to prove this kind of speculation. 

i included the following part because it’s extremely relevant to this context and what i’m about to go over next 

In addition to difficulty with emotional processing, children with autism may encounter communication challenges that may make them particularly desirable targets of sexual offenders because of the perception that they would be unable to disclose the abuse. Research indicates that up to 50% of children with autism are functionally nonverbal. 

from here

ok well u may be wondering why am i even including this if i don’t suspect sa in haru’s case. i think this explanation thoroughly demonstrates how and why autistic kids are more likely to be subjected to exploitation. with that said, kids on the spectrum sometimes may not be aware of what is going on and why it’s harmful to them (that happened to me SO many times but it’s besides the point). 

it’s entirely possible that mikey is well aware of haru’s idolatry towards him (stemming from autism or not) and decides to utilize it to his own personal advantage. this panel can literally imply that haru is being used like a disposable tool to do all the dirty work. which again, happens to so many autistic kids as they’re not aware of what exactly is going on. 

i wouldn’t even be surprised if haru was happy about the fact that mikey asked him to do all the work, because he would never even consider exploitation. why? because he wouldn’t want to do that to mikey as he cares for him deeply i assume

The ability to discern other's intentions, desires and beliefs is called "theory of mind" and typically develops at about age 4 or 5, according to the study.

In a classic example, a child is shown two dolls, "Sally" and "Anne." The experimenter puts on a skit in which Sally puts a marble in a basket. While Sally isn't looking, Anne moves the marble from the basket to a box. The experimenter asks the child where Sally will look for the marble when she returns.

Knowing that Sally will look in the basket requires understanding that others have beliefs that may differ from our own.

Previous studies have shown that children with autism develop this ability later than other children, if ever, Young said.

from here

keep in mind that haru always ranks lower than mikey; after toman disbands, haru is always directly below mikey. he’s basically his right hand aka does most if not all of the dirty work for him. it’s also highly likely that he puts himself in that position willingly because at the end of the day, he wants to help mikey and do what’s best for him

we were also explicitly shown that he continues to do so in every timeline, including bonten, where he kills people on mikey’s command, for instance  

it’s entirely possible that it’s a huge stretch here since he’s the “loyal mad dog” and such behavior can be most definitely expected from haru. nevertheless i think it’s an undeniably interesting detail that gives some insight into mikey’s and haru’s relationship which conveniently bring us to the next part 

‣ haru, mikey and baji & the unfolding of their friendship

according to senju in chapter 240, they “were always together back then”. we know that senju may not be the most reliable narrator but 

if she “always” followed them around then i guess she had a somewhat clear picture of what their dynamic looked like at that time, right? 

basically we don’t really know what happened to their friendship later. we know that it’s possible that mikey was responsible for haru’s scars or was at least somehow involved in the process. it’s also entirely possible that this situation traumatized all 3 of them and caused them to drift away from each other? maybe but this is just my personal theory and i have no evidence to support this claim. so let’s stick to the manga 

keep this in mind:

Physical attacks by peers may leave autistic children with wounds on their faces, shoulder displacements and large scratches on their body.

from here

we still don’t know what exactly happened and why (haru’s pov is long overdue atp) but why was it haru that got his entire fucking mouth ripped open by another middle schooler? why not baji for example (since he was also there)? idk seems oddly specific 

i tried to compartmentalize all those events and make some kind of a timeline. they were around 10 years old at that time, so chapter 241 probably happened in 2000.

2000 and prior: mikey, baji and haru are best friends 

2000: mikey hurts haru

2001/ 5th grade: mikey becomes best friends with draken

2003: toman is formed. mikey, baji and draken are included in the group of the founding members

where the fuck is haru? and what happened to him?

ok so toman was formed and haru stuck around somewhere in the background but was never included in anything major. it looks like him and mikey were still on decent terms i guess? but they didn’t spend that much time together anymore. otherwise it would be shown in the manga i assume. but it wasn’t....

it seems like mikey gave haru those scars and then everybody just moved on? completely ditching him and forming a gang? :// 

idk but to me at least, it looks like they kind of abandoned haru because he was somewhat different. this could relate to how baji always considered him to be weird for whatever reason or the humongous scars on his face lol or both. 

imo there’s enough evidence for me to think that he was pushed to the back and completely forgotten by his closest friends. mikey and baji found new ones and what about him? we don’t know why yet but it’s just such a common thing that happens to so many autistic kids. brushed aside because they’re different for whatever reason. 

It can sometimes be difficult to feel like you ‘fit in’ or to find your place in the world. Because of this, many autistic people can end up being socially isolated and lonely.

from here

Autistic young people are often misunderstood by non-autistic young people, and this can lead to difficulties in their friendships. We know that friendship is very important for our mental health. For non-autistic young people, having good friendships is linked to better mental health and having problems in friendship can cause mental health problems.

from here

Children with ASD have difficulty with social interaction behaviors, including establishing and maintaining relationships, reciprocating social interaction, and communicating with others.

from here

haru baby he’s your childhood friend too, isn’t he? :((

ok so basically to summarize whatever i wrote here up until this point. his friend(s) see him as weird which means that he fails to fit in (does something wrong again). then takeomi nags him about not raising senju properly (so again, he fails to do something correctly). it seems like he always does everything wrong no matter what he does or where he goes. 

dude i’d leave home too. haru’s childhood was probably a living hell

‣ haru’s odd placement in panels/official art 

draken’s flashback before he died. it’s just so bizarre to me that he’s always there but in the background, pushed aside. it’s possible that draken just wasn’t close friends with haru but if that’s true then why is he even here? 

again, in the background. i feel like him being there in the back is supposed to show us that he was always somehow involved but was more of a supporting character. but like... he literally killed mucho in this volume so it’s not like he had no impact on the story’s trajectory. 

yes i know that he was on the inside cover but still 

there’s mikey, baji, emma and where’s haru? it looks like they were still kids here and apparently they were childhood friends with haru too ... so? could be a reach but like baji isn’t a part of the sano family and he’s there .. 

hm maybe haru was constantly excluded (to some extent) from the very beginning, it’s just that senju didn’t mention it or wasn’t fully aware of what was going on

side note:  draken and mucho are dead, they also have their backs turned kind of like like pah, peh and haru *sobbing intensifies* anyway

is haru oddly placed here? maybe, idk, not really but everybody’s near somebody they’re close to. takemitchi & hina, emma & draken, peh & pah, mikey & baji, chifuyu & baji, mitsuya & yuzuha, mitsuya & draken and the kawata twins. the only ones that seem out of place are kazutora, hakkai, mucho and haru.

i have no idea wtf kazutora is doing tbh but he’s affiliated with mikey who saved him from his dad the day they met or sth and baji is there so it makes sense + toman was formed to protect kazutora and mikey is its leader. 

hakkai is randomly placed too but him and mikey have some history together.

technically mucho was a part of toman, he was the 5th division captain after all and we know that he was close with smiley who was the 4th division captain. so yes, he played a significant role in toman but imo tenjiku arc was supposed to show us that at the end of the day, his loyalty belonged to the s62 generation. well he even told us this

and then there’s haru, completely alone :( idek if he knows the kawata twins or yuzuha. technically wakui could’ve put him next to mucho (that would make a lot of sense) but i think this is supposed to show us that even though they were seemingly close, they were still very much far away from each other (emotionally). although mucho attempted to reduce that distance (cb3) idk if he was able to see any satisfactory results before haru killed him (which imo was a subconscious self defense reaction that mostly stemmed from what i’m explaining in this post)  

tldr; imo all of this is supposed to show us that no matter what haru does, at the end of the day he will always remain in the background, pushed aside, forgotten or in the shadows of his other friends possibly because of the way that he is. abandoned and left to deal with everything alone. 

‣ haru being a “clean freak”

i’ve seen a lot of people say he has ocd and huge disclaimer here, i’m not saying that all autistic people have raging ocd but like such behaviors tend to be present in people on the spectrum 

Autism and obsessive-compulsive disorder frequently accompany each other.

(...)

Studies indicate that up to 84 percent of autistic people have some form of anxiety; as much as 17 percent may specifically have OCD. And an even larger proportion of people with OCD may also have undiagnosed autism, according to one 2017 study.

from here

i mean do i even have to explain this one?

Other symptoms that are present include restrictive, repetitive patterns of behaviors, or narrow and/or atypical interests.  They may have inflexible adherence to routines, difficulty with transitioning, ritualized speech or behavior, and exhibit sensory processing difficulties.

from here

Many autistic people experience hypersensitivity (...). Certain sounds, smells, textures and tastes can also be overwhelming.

from here 

haru just has sensory issues and is probably unaware of that :/

side note:  listen this may sound like a huge stretch (and it probably is)  apparently ever since mucho got him cheesecake in an attempt to get closer to him and basically make him more comfortable, he’s been a cheesecake enjoyer lol. now obviously, he likes cheesecake because it reminds him of the unconditional love, acceptance and sympathy that mucho offered him. it probably reminds him of how wholesome that entire situation was because it’s likely that he was never approached by anybody with pure intentions before.

but it’s just so interesting that wakui chose cheesecake, a plain dessert that doesn’t have any weird texture and is probably very much suitable for people on the spectrum. idk if this was intentional, probably not, but still it’s so interesting how everything seems to be adding up lol

on top of that haru literally dislikes spicy food .. come on now ..

‣ hyperfixating on mikey: his primary motivation 

....i guess his sensory issues could also explain this panel but it’s kinda obvious that he’s obsessed with mikey for some reason that we don’t know about yet. 

again, obv there’s definitely much more to this story that would explain his behavior without mentioning any neurodevelopmental disorders but imo he’s just hyperfixating on mikey. 

it’s not bpd/psychopathy/stockholm syndrome; he’s just a neurodivergent kid with issues 

It is a kind of extreme fixation on a certain show, person, or thought. It is a kind of coping mechanism for people suffering from anxiety disorders, depression, and autism. Hyperfixation can last for years.

from here

and mikey is probably his “favorite person” (no, this isn’t only reserved for bpd; various symptoms of both disorders overlap actually; they’re different disorders regardless).

i don’t even know where bpd came from, like haru just doesn’t display that many symptoms that are commonly associated with bpd which is primarily characterized by evident (and repeating) behavioral patterns. 

Therefore, both individuals with BPD and individuals with autism may have challenges in social relationships but for different reasons. Those with autism may prefer to be alone or cannot read others’ emotions, while those with BPD are more likely to experience extreme emotions and impact their relationships because of it.

from here

i’m just trying to analyze his behavior in accordance with the manga without making additional assumptions and again, the evidence to support such a claim is insufficient.

side note:  it’s so ironic that this type of hyperfixation can be “often described as "tunnel vision"

Autistic brains are often really good at focusing deeply on one thing at a time; they may struggle to split attention between topics. ‘Hyperfixation’ is being completely immersed in something to the exclusion of everything else. It's more common in autistic people and can be a great asset. In this state a great deal of learning, productivity and appreciation can take place. When hyperfixating it’s important to take time to look after your basic needs, and it can be difficult when other people or responsibilities seek your attention. 

from here

he explicitly states here that he made consistent and persistent efforts just to make sure that the further course of his action was going to be meticulously planned. why? because mikey is concerned with the outcome so obv haru is going to do absolutely everything and anything to succeed 

unlike a psychopath, he’s not driven by personal desires; he’s not doing that because he feels like it and/or because it’s fun. he’s doing whatever it takes to satisfy mikey, his “king” 

it’s not stockholm syndrome either because 

In these instances, the captors use emotional tactics to convince victims to sympathize with them and comply with their demands. This can involve convincing victims that the outside world is more dangerous than staying with their captors or persuading victims that the kidnapper is a victim, too.

from here

and we have not seen that in the manga 

This makes victims feel like they are unable to escape from their situation, which is why people with Stockholm Syndrome stay with their captors.

from here

haru never seems scared around mikey; if anything, he’s fascinated by him and excited to see what he’s going to do next.. why? bc he’s simply hyperfixated

my personal take on why he’s so intrigued by mikey’s dark impulses:  we’ve established here that haru grew up feeling weak and possibly inferior; he wasn’t as strong as others. so when mikey hurt him in 4th grade (mikey was just another lil kid, they were the same age), that’s probably when haru realized or noticed how strong mikey actually was/still is. maybe he even started looking up to him 

from a logical point of view, i don’t think it was weird of him to stay by mikey’s side. it reminds me of why koko stayed in tenjiku. haru’s decision to remain alongside mikey, imo was not only influenced by his feelings towards him, but also possibly the result of making a calculated choice after evaluating the power structure of tokyo at that time. and we’ve seen that haru most definitely has the mental capacity to think logically and use inferential reasoning 

‣ you have to keep an eye on the king, but also on yourself

idek how to put this into words this is so sad. not only haru was neglected by everybody around him, but it’s likely that he neglected himself too. 

Many people on the Autism spectrum struggle with transitioning from one activity to another. So they just get fixated on one thing so they don’t have to deal with the stress of switching from one thing to another. 

from here

he probably became so focused on mikey, his goals and his wellbeing that he completely forgot about himself. again, this could also relate to him being neglected by takeomi, a parental figure and how that’s affected him and his self perception. it’s also possible that he didn’t take care of himself (mentally and emotionally) because he was already conditioned to believe that he’s unworthy so yk why even try

As a result of low self-care, a person could start to feel worthless. Because, in general, individuals on the spectrum might have stronger feelings, even the smallest of things can majorly affect that person, in ways neurotypical people won’t understand.

In addition, many people with autism may feel that even though they don’t take the best care of themselves, there are more important subjects to worry about. Other self-advocates may not have the energy to look after themselves, as a possible result of depression, not enough free time, or difficulties with family and/or friends.

from here

:(

‣ moral judgment impairment

disclaimer: ok this part is going to be so difficult for me to write bc i have no idea what’s right, wrong and what morality generally stands for but i’ll try my best. lmk if this part doesn’t make sense

i wholeheartedly believe that haru thinks (or that he convinced himself) that he’s doing the right and appropriate thing. am i trying to say that he thinks mass murder is justified and necessary? yes i do. because he probably doesn’t see it as immoral or inherently wrong; he only cares about mikey and his “path of carnage” 

People with autism may perceive morality differently than normally functioning people because they focus more on the outcomes of situations, rather than the intentions of the people in those situations.

(...)

Moral judgment is a complex social cognitive process, but it is also influenced by moral education.

from here

side note:  well who was there to ensure that he receives proper moral education? probably nobody. how was he even supposed to identify a set of beliefs and values regarding what is right and wrong? 

Empathy is typically considered as a necessary component of developing moral agents. Empathy may play at least two roles in the development of moral agency: (i) empathic ability might be helpful to learn important moral lessons; (ii) empathic responses to harm suffered by a victim might be important in shaping moral judgments to wrong-doing. Furthermore, empathic capacity is useful in understanding who is judged to be a victim of moral transgression.

from here

very often people on the spectrum lack empathy, which plays a significant role in the process of building a moral compass and developing moral intelligence as mentioned above. 

The term ‘empathy’ is used in a variety of ways, and problems of empathy have been suggested to be central to both psychopathy and autism spectrum disorders. 

(...)

The affective/information processing correlates of psychopathic tendencies and ASD are quite different. Psychopathic tendencies are associated with difficulties in resonating with other people’s distress, whereas ASD is characterized by difficulties in knowing what other people think.

from here 

i’m pretty sure that i’ve already went over this aspect of autism somewhere before but i’ll do it again for the sake of convenience 

‘Mind blindness’ — a theory that holds that people with autism are unable to form an awareness of others’ thoughts. 

from here

tldr; imo haru is aware of what he’s doing, he knows that he’s murdering people, his friends even. but he’s incapable of understanding why that’s wrong or why he shouldn’t be doing this. his own way of reasoning rejects the idea of morality and what it generally means to allistic people. he thinks in logical terms and the most important aspect of his life is to protect mikey and “his path”. so that’s what he’s going to do and he’ll go to great lengths to achieve that without even questioning if he’s doing the morally right thing. because in his mind, he is. because why wouldn’t he, right?

‣ bonus points for bearing an invisible cross as a consequence of the series of events 

not to be annoying but this panel again

disclaimer: i’m probably going to sound like i’m contradicting myself here but pls trust me also i’ll try my best not to project bc this part just hits home lol

yes i’ve dedicated a decent amount of this post (if not the vast majority) explaining how loneliness and feeling abandoned has probably greatly influenced his way of thinking and how he perceives the outside world.

nevertheless, autistic people tend to have a decreased need for social interaction

A general explanation for the impairments in social initiative and reciprocity states that individuals with autism find social interactions less rewarding, because they fail to appreciate their emotional significance. Indeed, abnormal brain functioning in autism suggests impaired sensitivity to social affiliation and reward at a neural level.

from here

does that mean that all autistic people prefer to isolate themselves from others? absolutely not. 

ok so wtf am i even talking about here? what i’m trying to say is that maybe that tendency to detach has prevailed the older he got. i mean we saw him have friends before but we also know that at some point in his childhood, he started pushing people away (and not just random people, senju was his sister that he raised so obv they were close). it’s entirely possible that he subconsciously or consciously reshaped his disposition into this over exaggerated but also apathetic persona because of psychological trauma that stemmed from potentially being on the spectrum and how difficult it was to grow up not only neglected but also in a society that’s primarily designed for neurotypicals. 

it’s also worth mentioning that it’s extremely rare for allistic people to recognize, understand and react to this. the people around him most likely didn't know what he was going through (he probably didn't even know himself), so they couldn't possibly figure it out on their own. this sounds like absolute nonsense, so i’m going to speak from my personal experience to put this into perspective. my mom is not a neurodivergent person and has no idea what neurodivergent people go through so how could she know that i was always struggling with the simplest things like bright led lamps? she always thought i was complaining for no reason and that i was also trying to piss her off on purpose. why? because she, as a neurotypical, has no issues with bright lightning; if she ever kept bringing it up, it would probably be because of some petty reasons that are completely unrelated to the neurological structure of her brain. 

tldr; this brings us back to the story of his neglect and how the perpetuated cycle of abuse never stops, but ultimately and substantially gets worse. obv it’s possible to break the cycle, but it can be a long, draining process that requires a lot of external support and emotional investment.... it’s possible that maybe if he wasn’t neglected by his family, he’d be able to receive the proper and necessary guidance that maybe could have led him to a different path; a path that isn’t centered around violence and straight up carnage. 

anyway, keep in mind that this panel is from september 2008, so haru is 18 years old here; technically he’s an adult. he probably spent his entire life neglected and alone. obv he’s developed some kind of subconscious self defense mechanism and now he feels like “i don’t need anybody and i don’t even want anybody” .....because nobody needed and wanted him in the first place  

With today’s modern conveniences, a person can physically survive a solitary existence. But that existence is probably not a happy one. Thanks to millions of years of natural selection, being rejected is still painful. 

(...) 

Social rejection activates many of the same brain regions involved in physical pain.

from here

tldr; do autistic people tend to prefer to be alone? yes. does it still hurt to be abandoned regardless of the presence of neurodevelopmental disorders? also yes. autistic people are people too yk

‣ bonus points for his adorable posture

ok this is really random and more like a fun lil fact about him but like look at his posture, it’s so cute. also i think he’s the only one that stands like that in the manga, so it’s safe to assume that his way of standing is different lol

Motor impairments in individuals with autism spectrum disorder (ASD) have been frequently reported.

from here

‣ extra bonus points for cosplaying Raymond Babbitt

another fun lil fact and i SWEAR i’m not doing this on purpose. i’m most definitely not trying to attribute each and every little detail that i know about him to autism but like..

haru is 2nd best at gambling 

Restricted and repetitive patterns of behaviors, interests, or activities are a critical diagnostic criterion for autism spectrum disorder (ASD). Previous studies using gambling paradigms with ASD populations have identified that, unlike typically developed control participants, people with a diagnosis of ASD tend to maintain particular response patterns regardless of the magnitude of potential outcomes to uncertain gains or losses. 

(...)

These findings suggest that the ASD tendency towards repetitive behavior may demonstrate itself even in high-level decision-making tasks.

from here

//

ok i think that’s all, lmk what u think also sorry if this is too long lol

[jeff-the-mf-baker]

Wait. Mikey's dad died in a car accident, right?

So what if in the REAL original timeline (the one that, at that point, had not been altered by anybody yet, not even Shin), Mikey died in the car accident along with his father? This would make a lot of sense, since it would give Shinichiro a reason to go back in time to try to save his brother... Just a thought.

[just-sp-in-inginthevoid]

It's ✨ speculation time ✨

See, if Sano grandpa hadn't been there, Shinichiro and Mikey would've ended up in an institution and could've been separated

Perhaps Mikey never thought about it - he had no reason to - but what about Shinichiro? When Emma comes to their home and she talks about her big brother and he goes to see Izana and-

Izana has no family left, and that could've been Shinichiro (it's not a fair comparison - especially not when Shinichiro can come see his mom whenever he wants)

Shinichiro sees himself in Mikey, at least a bit, and knows Mikey will be greater than him - hence he wants to be there to help Mikey no do great mistakes like he maybe did back then during Black Dragon. And once again I'd like to mention Shinichiro only left Black Dragon for Mikey and would have stayed if not for him + would have gone far deeper into illegality - this boy became a delinquent to cope with his father's death and change of lifestyle.

So what if he saw himself in Izana as well?

He went to see Izana with perhaps little to no information on him - we don't even know how he figured out where Izana was. Did he know right off the bat Izana wasn't his (or Emma's) biological brother? The answer to these questions do not matter here, sorry for that.

Did he think Izana thought of Emma the same way he thought of Mikey? He perhaps went to see him after Emma opened up to them and talked about Izana - did he go see Izana for Emma? To make her happy? After all, that's what he says in her chapter-backstory: 'I want to make her smile' and even if Mikey did succeed to make her open up at the end, Shinichiro himself needed to do something to get closer to her.

But then. Izana's main thing is that he (feels) is alone. We don't know how Shinichiro dealt with his father's death+his mother's extended hospitalization+his lifestyle going from 'typical citizen life' to 'living with grandfather, having to raise siblings as a teen, being a delinquent' but it's clear he relied on Mikey('s well-being) a lot. Mikey is the only thing he has left from his previous normal life (aside from Takeomi) and without him he'd have felt way lonelier.

So what did he never make Izana and Emma talk again?

Well first, I won't give you the canonical answer, I don't have it, second — to learn to know someone, you have to share a point in common you can talk about, right?

If Shinichiro thought Shinichiro&Mikey's relationship = Izana&Emma's relationship, what else could he have talked about? He knows Mikey better than Emma, and Izana knows Emma but not Mikey. If Shinichiro wanted to share things about Mikey so that Izana get to know him a bit (even without meeting him) and if he wanted that by doing that Izana will talk about Emma... well that completely backfired we know that, but I don't think that implausible. Shinichiro's not perfect, he messes up – he's human like any other character.

After Izana's 'stop talking about Manjiro, my head hurts because of him', Shinichiro stepped back from talking about Mikey (supposedly). He tries at some point to tell Mikey about Izana ('what would you think if you had another big brother?') but without talking clearly about Izana – he's still not sure about how to do it

He doesn't know if he can talk about Izana with Emma either. She progressively stopped talking about him and the last time she saw him she was 3. Does she remember him? If yes, how much? Not much, right? Emma was the same age Mikey was when their father died, Mikey doesn't remember their father, sure Emma would want to see Izana again, just like Mikey would like to see their father again but at the end of the day they know how to live without them, don't they, because they do not have much memories about them whereas Shinichiro remembers his dad and Izana remembers Emma and and— and next thing Shinichiro knows, Izana pushed someone to suicide and ended up in Juvie.

Shinichiro is Black Dragon's leader and founder, he knows a lot of people and a lot of them did messed up things, because they could, because they had to, because they had no other choice, because they didn't know better... But it's his younger brother here

And it gets even worse after Izana gets out and Shinichiro tells him Black Dragon is first and foremost for Mikey. Izana becomes Black Dragon's leader and twists Black Dragon's essence and image. But Shinichiro doesn't do much to stop it – he doesn't really know how to connect to Izana, and he certainly doesn't know how to make Izana (who doesn't react when Shinichiro tries to talk to him about Emma) connect to Emma and Mikey (especially not with the current situation and the past few years)

But there's something deeper than this

Because that's it, what Izana made of the 8th generation is what could have been the 1st.

Izana acts just like Shinichiro could've acted if he didn't have Mikey (and it becomes even worse after Izana figures out he isn't related by blood to any of them). Discovering delinquency, going in it, getting beat up, trying to find connections, trying to find a way to make the anger and pain stop — without his father, Shinichiro gets into delinquency (he can still withdraw), without Mikey, Shinichiro falls even deeper (he cannot return from it).

And somewhere, Shinichiro doesn't want Izana (whom he failed, and failed again) and Mikey (who only sees Shinichiro as perfectly imperfect) to meet – first of all, because Izana will lose it, and second of all, because you can't convince me Shinichiro would be okay with Mikey finding out about any of his mistakes

Still, Shinichiro loves his brothers and his dream is to take care of S.S Motors the three of them together. If Izana wants a family related by blood, then he'll go find Izana's mother to the Philippines (did he succeed? Most likely not. But he got the two Babus – one for Mikey's upcoming birthday and the other for Izana once he'd have find a way to make up for last time, maybe)

His dreams are cut short as he finds death and karma and one question lingers in my mind —

Where the heck is Izana in the original timeline.

It was ✨speculation time✨

[haitaniapologist]

TR 268, THE FIRST TIMELINE, AND OTHER THOUGHTS 

i’m not one of doing theories because i’m dumb to do such things, but today seems to be a day where god decided to light my head and i had some good thoughts about what currently is happening in tokyo revengers. most of this probably doesn’t even make sense, but hey! tokrev isn’t either. warnings for spoilers of both tokyo revengers and the netflix german show “dark”. 

i’ll divide this theory (idk if i can call this a theory djhsgdja) in four parts! 

shinichiro, mikey and the first timeline. 

the black dragons

what might happen 

more questions i had

that being said, let’s go!! 

SHINICHIRO, MIKEY AND THE FIRST TIMELINE

wakasa’s line really fucked up my head when i first read it. what the hell did he mean with first timeline? the og timeline that takemichi died after being pushed in the train tracks, where draken, hina and naoto died too? it’s probably this one he’s referencing, but this timeline being known as the first one, implies that we have an original timeline — which is quite confusing, because to us, this one wakasa was talking about was the original timeline. 

to me, our original timeline was the timeline shinichiro was trying to create, but he died before he could make sure everything would be fine. 

since he’s now confirmed to be another time-leaper and was time leaping to save mikey, just like takemichi, also implies that something happened to mikey — maybe he died or even went insane because of his dark impulses, but i doubt that. i reached the conclusion that mikey’s dark impulses were born due to shinichiro’s time leaps, even if he didn’t know he was their reason to exist (idk how, though). 

i think mikey died in shinichiro’s original timeline. 

maybe in the car accident that killed papa sano, or in a gang war (i’ll elaborate this, i promise). but i’m sure og’s mikey died as a child/pre-teen, and shinichiro couldn’t get over it. as to how he gained his powers, i think something similar to takemichi must’ve happened to him, or the “deity” (hanma shuji im looking at you rn) of such powers approached him and offered him the chance to save his brother. of course he couldn’t say no. we know how much of a caring older brother shin was, and his death probably affected the other members of his family as well — grandpa sano, emma, and probably even mama sano. shinichiro wanted to save everyone from the sadness of losing such a bright kid. 

shinichiro managed to do it — idk in how many tries, but at least a few — which resulted in takemichi’s original timeline. 

but as i said, shinichiro died before he could make sure mikey would be saved, in which resulted in everything we know from our og timeline — draken dying in the moebius fight, kisaki using this to be toman’s top two and mikey losing himself to his darkness. 

and then takemichi came into the picture. we know akkun was the one who pushed in on takemichi’s first timeline, but who did on his og one? we know it was someone wearing a black and long t-shirt or jacket — sanzu was wearing a black t-shirt on his volume’s undercover, but the black dragons’ uniform is black, too.

THE BLACK DRAGONS

i’m sure shinichiro created the black dragons to save mikey. 

remember when i said i think mikey died in a gang war? and i think i know which one it was — the one between waka’s and benkei’s former gangs, kodo rengo and ragnarok. we don’t know if there was really a gang war between them, but from takeomi’s flashback, we can understand that they at least fought with each other a lot. to the sake of my thoughts, i think mikey must’ve died in a fight between the two gangs, being caught in the crossfire by accident. baji and sanzu were probably with him, too, and perhaps even died alongside their friend. 

anyways. as soon as shinichiro got his timeleaping powers, i’m sure he did exactly what takemichi did — become the top one of a gang, to prevent his beloved one from dying, and he succeeded. we always thought about how shin managed to become the black dragons’ president and stop the war between benkei and wakasa, because we knew he didn’t have fighting skills — and charisma doesn’t win a war. since he’s a time leaper, i’m sure he did what takemichi and naoto were doing, aka searching for things to help him to change the timeline. he was getting the help of someone else if he was doing that, and it probably was takeomi. i’ll not elaborate on this because i'm still waiting for him to come back. 

the main thing is: shinichiro created the black dragons to unite benkei and wakasa, and prevent the battle that killed mikey from happening, gathering info that would help him achieve it. and he did, successfully, and he saved his little brother! but he didn’t know he was going to die, because he didn’t time leaped to make sure things would be fine for him and his family, or if something was going to happen that he needed to prevent — but kazutora was ready to kill god or become god, and shin died before seeing what would happen with mikey’s dark impulses.

WHAT MIGHT HAPPEN 

be aware that this section will contain spoilers of the third season of “dark” 

we have two directions the story can follow: 

takemichi prevents shinichiro’s death, preserving the future he tried so hard to have.

takemichi prevents mikey’s death from the og timeline, preventing shin to become a time leaper. 

the first one is a theory that everyone knows about, but i don’t think it’s the only correct answer for what takemichi needs to do. mikey would still have the dark impulses, and we don’t know if shinichiro being alive would prevent everything from happening — if mikey fell to his darkness, which i think it's a creation of shin’s time leaping without him knowing, i don’t think his brother would be able to take him from it. 

the key is to save mikey, but not this mikey. 

“dark” is a german show that deals with time travel, too. i love it and watched it twice, and i think its ending might have some clues about what will happen in tokyo revengers. to not spoil too much people that didn’t watch it, i’ll just say that jonas, the main character, was trying to prevent himself from becoming the big bad, by doing everything he could after being caught in the madness of time traveling — but he was already falling in the same circle his past/future self did, and he needed to break it. and to break it, he couldn’t save his timeline, but prevent a trigger from happening. that trigger was the death of the son of the creator of the time travel machine, who created it to save his son, but something bad happened when he was creating it, which resulted in the birth of jonas’ timeline. so jonas saved the creator’s son and the time travel machine wasn’t built.

the main thing is: to save mikey, takemichi can’t try to save what is already rotten. he needs to prevent the trigger of shinichiro’s time leaping from happening, which is og mikey’s death. 

saving mikey is still the goal, but not in the way we’re thinking. 

how takemichi will do it? only wakui knows (if that’s his plan).

MORE QUESTIONS 

this section will be just a few thoughts i had during the day and when i thought about this post

who was shinichiro’s trigger? wakasa knew about the time leaping, but i don’t see why he could be shin’s trigger. maybe takeomi? especially if haruchiyo died with mikey in the og timeline. 

if wakasa knew about it, it means takeomi and benkei did too. but why didn't they look after mikey after shin passed away? did they think shin knew he was going to die or something and thought mikey’s future was already what shinichiro wanted? 

where the scar incident fit in? and how sanzu knows about the time leaping? did he hear shinichiro talking about it with takeomi on the day of the incident, or do we have another time leaper? 

how the fuck hanma fits in all of this. we have so many clues about him being a time leaper too, i’ll kill wakui if that was just misleading things. 

how the dark impulses were created. mikey said it was because of shinichiro’s love and i interpreted it as the result of his time leapings. but i could still be wrong. 

who pushed takemichi on the train tracks on his original timeline and why they did it. it was wakasa, benkei or takeomi, trying to find someone who could save shinichiro? was it sanzu? hanma?

anyways, thank you for reading all of this!!! i don’t have nothing to support my thoughts, just the voices in my head.

[theoutcastrogue]

Exhibit #563458137 why copyright makes perfect sense, protects creators, and promotes innovation.

[nevermeyers]

Okay, okay, let's calm down i can't. Let's be objective, with the information we have. We don't know if sanzu is talking about someone else [that he knows about time travel thanks to someone he met] or if it's himself. It's too early to assume things

But let's talk about this

this is something like a compilation of theories and possibilities to clear my mind :')

I've seen people say that sanzu wouldn't hang out/talk to more people than Mikey, but, looking back in time:

1) osanai also didn't seem like a guy who would pay attention to people other than himself or his gangmates he was so arrogant, and managed to be manipulated by kisaki

2) izana was manipulated at his worst moment: when he was all alone

Now, about Hanma

Following this line, and assuming that we are all suspicious of hanma and his appearance in the Kanto Manji despite having more important things to do [like running away from the police, lol, he forgot that if he gets arrested it would all be over for him???], we might think that hanma maybe had a little talk with sanzu. However, we don't know what his objectives would be. like, having fun??? make a mess?? well, it definitely sounds like his style,

Let's be honest, Hanma doesn't seem as someone with long term goals.

But there's another theory about hanma i love sm

Hanma being the one who gave the time travel power to Takemichi. If he did it once, why wouldn't there be another time?

So, assuming sanzu is be other time leaper I could only think about one objective he could have

Reaching the Bonten timeline, or any possible timeline where he is by Mikey's side

What if Sanzu's been manipulated? Well, I'll fucking cry

And, assuming hanma is actually the second time leaper, we have... definitely not objectives, he seems like a passive but important part who doesn't participate at all, remember Kazutora. Yeah, he only got involved in Emma's murder, but appart from that, he never got his hands splashed with blood. Sounds like Manson huh?

Hanma talking about "death survivors", and the ones who are in front of him are the people who died in another timelines.

Or his position in the volume cover, as if he was the ruler of a game we can't totally see

Kisaki also knew about time leaping and he was always with him

And, absolutely, this

which i personally didn't remember until a couple of days ago

[strawberryclementine]

I wanted to share an old theory of mine for how Kisaki found out about time leaping. I know at the end of the series it was implied that it was because Kisaki watched as Shinichiro transferred his power to Takemichi, but I wanted to share my theory from before us even knowing that Shinichiro was a time leaper. I thought that Kisaki's knowledge could be traced back to Naoto. Here's my train of thought:

During Takemichi's first time leap in chapter 1, Takemichi admits to Naoto about being a time leaper and being grateful to have seen Hinata one last time because he loves her so much. So from the start of the series, Naoto is always aware that Takemichi is time leaping for her.

In chapter 8, when Takemichi visits Akkun on the roof, Akkun asks him about time leaping for an Ultimate Love, Hinata. He also mentions that he knows it was Naoto that saved him and that he seemed to have somehow known in advance that Takemichi would be pushed, and him knowing this was because of time leaping.

Kisaki was watching this scene unfold, and at first it's unclear whether he told Akkun to ask Takemichi about time leaping or if Akkun pieced this together by himself, but later on it becomes clear that Akkun was unaware while Kisaki suspected Takemichi of time leaping.

But how did Kisaki find this out?

The only person other than Takemichi who the audience knew was aware of time leaping at chapter 8 was Naoto. So maybe it was Naoto who told Kisaki about it? I thought that perhaps they knew each other somehow, and since Naoto was interested in the occult, he told Kisaki about the time leaping to some extent.

Naoto and Kisaki having some kind of friendship seemed even more plausible when Naoto said Kisaki's catchphrase in chapter 88:

This made me think that Kisaki and Naoto spoke frequently and recently enough to adopt each other's catchphrases. Additionally, in the following chapter we find out that Hinata and Kisaki walked home together from cram school, which sets a precedent for Kisaki and Naoto meeting at a young age!

It would have been very ironic if Future Naoto forgot about any friendship with Kisaki (because it was 12 years ago) and accidentally helped Kisaki along the way as a child. Similar to the way Takemichi was implicated in Hina's murder in the Bad Toman timeline, I thought that past Naoto would be revealed to be accidentally involved in Kisaki's plan.

I still like this theory because in the final chapters when it's revealed that Shinichiro transferred his powers to Takemichi, Shinichiro only vaguely describes the power to Takemichi. Also, it seemed a little odd to me that Kisaki would have believed that Shinichiro actually transferred a magical power to little Takemichi. I would have thought that Shinichiro was just trying to console him. Unfortunately we'll not get to see what exactly Kisaki was thinking in that moment or how he pieces together that Takemichi was time leaping.

[strwberieswsugar]

this panel makes sooo much sense now that it’s confirmed shinichiro is a time leaper

cause it’s just like how takemichi doesn’t remember/know things that happened that he should be aware of. It always just gave me the idea that he was there but wasn’t /fully/ there.

Inui couldn’t possibly know any other way to interpret it so he just took it as shin being humble and awkward, but he probably didn’t really remember that happening cause it wasn’t really /him/ and that shin and the one from the story are probably not the same bc one of them was time leaping.

that and all the exhaustive amount of times we’ve heard people say takemichi’s just like shinichiro in this and this and that.. like it’s so subtle but it makes so much sense!!

[cocktailjjrs]

TR 268

Pardon me for this, but my first reaction to this was - 

DUDE!!! What The Actual FUCK!!!!!!

I am late to get to a chapter for ONE time AND THIS HAPPENS!!! C’mon!!!

Shinichiro is the second Timeleaper????? Like, WHAT?

My more clam reaction, when i made peace with the fact that this is actually happening - 

If you look at it, it may just make sense. 

Why i think so? Here - 

This is from ch 7; when Naoto explains what happens when Takemitchi timeleaps. 

This was not mentioned very often, because there were many significant or drastic changes in the following timelines, where the whole setup or dynamic of the situation had changed. Meaning, only those timelines, where the changes were minor (Like in this Timeline, Akkun not being in jail - which largely did not effect the whole plot), Mitchi was dead for the time being he had gone back in time. 

Other timeline, where there were more significant changes - like Mitchi going from not-so-important Toman figure to one of it’s executives; we don’t know how that timeline was till Mitchi came back to future, but by the looks of it, he wasn’t dead in those. 

Why did i bring this up?

I have two questions or things or reasons to bring this up - 

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.

.

1

Because, this means Dead people, while they are dead for everyone around them - they are infact in a parallel timeline, somewhere in past or future.

Does that ring a bell? 

Someone who is dead? 

Someone who can timetravel? 

Someone who was week but still strong enough to be the centre of attention of all? 

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.

.

No, i’m not talking about Takemitchi. Shinichiro!!!

I found this interesting,

And i don’t know the original script (someone please correct me on the tense here if i am wrong), but every manga panel is drawn and written carefully. So, this -

It’s present tense. 

Does it mean, Shinichiro is still (in 2008) alive? 

Like, okay, it’s a bit of a stretch; but the wording here sounds deliberate. It could have been written as ‘was’? We do focus more on tenses in English. 

AND, if he is still in the background somewhere - what is he doing? 

Takemitchi has always tried to make the following timelines better, but they always get worse; if Shinichiro is in the background, why hasn’t he done anything?

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2

On to the next part and a VERY important question -

Shinichiro travelled “Back in Time" 

When? 

Was it when their dad died? When their Mom was on death bed? When Mikey started getting into fight with older boys? When the whole plane incident happened? Or when Toman founding member’s met? or when he died?

I was kinda sad we did not get much information from Mikey’s past chapters; it was just repeat of what we knew till that point, but we did get a few more insights on the situation

While there is possibility that Shinichiro travelled to a time which was never mentioned till now; it is interesting to point out these: 

Two obvious difference in POV’s of Mikey and senju regarding the plane incident (it was Shinichiro who made that plane, btw)- 

Sanzu, if we consider Mikey actually ripped his mouth open,  even after that he was okay following Mikey. 

He knows about Timeleaping (all that destiny stuff) but he was out of spot-light for a long time

Mikey didn’t just seem to visit by his brothers bike shop on the fated night, he was called/told to be there. He saw Baji & Kazutora being taken away

(Note: Drawing parallels with Takemitchi as they were time and again mentioned to be very similar)

So, here’s what i think happened; Shinichiro after Kazutora hit him in the head, travelled back in time (no trigger this time, like Takemitchi’s first time). 

Either to the plane incident, to stop Mikey from doing the same thing to Sanzu that he had originally done (i think he failed in this one, same like Takemitchi could not always stop an incident from happening) 

And/or to just a few hours before he died; meaning, he had called Mikey to gift him the Bike and while he was waiting in his office, Mikey had came in and saw someone breaking into the Garage, making Mikey confronting Baji and Kazutora Killing Mikey instead of Shinchiro. Shinchiro found him almost dead, and like in Bonten timeline, Mikey triggered his Timetravel, but only a few hours back, where he gave Mikey a wrong time and instead was killed? (It’s like a paradox) 

I know, this is assuming, that Shinichiro time travelled on Aug 13th. But there are also possibilities that he travelled on a complete different point. 

Well, for that, i can’t seem to think of something which is mentioned till date. To me, it feels like if it’s not these two incidents then it’s completely off screen scenario.

.

.

.

Now to combine the two things, We don’t know much about OG/1st Timeline. The first TL we know is:

Toman is bad news, involving into every crime possible

Mikey and Kisaki met on 5th July 2005 (remains same for all TL’s)

Hina had dumped mitchi in this TL in 2005

Takemitchi and Mizo squad remained slaves of Kiyomasa and group, where (to our knowledge) Takemitchi and Mikey never met 

Draken is dead, Akkun is in jail

Not much info on anyone else

Kisaki was acting President of Toman and Mikey was MIA

Hina (truck rammed into her) and Naoto died on 1st July

Mitchi died on 4th July, 1st time leap

Goes back - 12 Yrs

Told Naoto about the death after 12 years – future changed

But, what if there is a timeline even before this? Like, that would make sense. Shinichiro travelled back in time to save Mikey; and Mikey was fine (atleast alive) in this timeline. 

Now, here - 

Does this mean, Takemitchi won’t have died by being pushed on the train track? that he would never have travelled back in time? 

What is it that Shinichiro tried to save Mikey from? And why would it even be a concern to Takemitchi - who only met Mikey by pure coincidence and that too only in later timelines? 

And, if Shinichiro was only trying to save Mikey; then why is it that whatever Takemitchi did, the future only seemed to get worse and worse? In every progressive Future, Mikey had suffered more and more, living and dying painfully, alone? 

Does that mean there is one more Time leaper, a third, who is working against both Mitchi and Shin? Someone else who is already dead? It’s not that farfetched thought, there could be multiple Time leapers, we are only following one.

It is also important to know 

Why did Wakasa wait till the end of Three deities war to tell Mikey about the whole Time Leaping thing? 

Who else knows about it? Benkei? Takeomi? 

Was Wakasa the trigger? 

Did Shinichiro travel back only once or was it multiple times like Takemitchi? 

Why did Wakasa never talk to Mikey or informed him about it since 2003? 

What all information is Wakasa hiding? 

Does Wakasa remember all the timelines like Naoto remembers? 

Was Shinichiro’s time travel evolved to the same level as current (2008) Takemitchi, where he is able to glance into the future?

Also; 

Dark Impulse is born out of love. 

So, was it Mikey’s love for his brother that gave birth to these impulses? or is it like Shinichiro was able to pass on these impulses? 

Or are these caused due to Shinichiro travelling back in time, making a conflicting image of himself inside Mikey? (This traces back to me believing Mikey having split-personality; where due to someone else trying to shape his life the way they want caused confusion within himself of who he actually is)

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All of this is without even considering Many other factors in the story that are still left unsaid, uncleared or unattended 

Let me know what you guys think. i hope i was able to make atleast 5% of sense here.  

P.S. 

Mikey even while yelling this (plus telling him about Shinichiro too); Kept on punching and kicking takemitchi, which - pardon me - but i find absolutely hilarious.