#try to “convert” them and start discourse
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x-neurotoxin-x · 7 months ago
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No hate to this anon or anybody that likes bottom Shigaraki in general but I've gotta ask, wth is with the influx of ppl messaging/sending anons to/commenting on pages and works by primarily top Shigaraki / bottom dabi shippers and asking them to write/draw bottom Shigaraki when the person either predominately or exclusively writes/draws him as a top in ships? I keep seeing it, like, rather frequently and it's kinda leaving a bad taste in my mouth especially when bottom/sub Shigaraki is not rare whatsoever and there is plenty of writers and artists that portray him as a bottom or a bottom leaning switch. Hell, it used to be hard to find fic and art that wasn't bottom Shig in the shigadabi fandom. It's just kinda weird to me.
would you ever write a fic thats shigaraki focused? that or write him as a bottom. youre actually be my favorite dabi writer though shig’s my favorite character so im just curious!
I mean, i write fic that are shigadabi focused, though they're usually more dabi centric than Shigaraki centric. I wouldn't write bottom Shigaraki though. Personal preference, I don't like bottom and/or sub Shigaraki, just doesn't align with how i perceive him and it's kinda an ick for me. There's also just an abundance of shigadabi/spinaraki with bottom Shig and not a lot of the ships with him as a top, and i like him a whole lot more as a top in those dynamics.
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deus-ex-mona · 11 months ago
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anyways! it’s herohei hours~~~~~~
#start the new week r i g h t with herohei and nghy!!!!!#truly the ‘everyone supports nghy’ song of all time~~~~~~~~~~~~#waiting for nagisa’s next mv though~~~~~~ i hope ymk illustrates it~~ she hasn’t illustrated any omoiai song mvs after all so~~~~~~#i wanna see nghy in ymk’s artstyle again… they were s o o o o o cute on the sukiitai album cover#manifesting a nghy duet for the next album (delusional) what if it’s called ‘heroine and prince’. or even ‘heroine and chef’. w h a t then#let lxl be nghy’s fairy godmother in this trying time p l s im beggingngng those two idiots are obsessed with nagisa lmao#still thinking about that interview post-1st izumo collab where they talked about how they successfully converted nagisa into their fan#‘nagisa def became our fan. no doubt about it.’ ‘let’s confirm it with him when we next meet him’ ok losers#w a i t (cursed) what if nghy’s first duet turns out to be them going on a date to a lxl concert in their uni arc—#we already have toxic yuri julieta x julieta (chuucon) s o we can totally have childhood friends julieta x julieta too in nghy r i g h t —#though help i think a nagisa solo about a mundane ‘im a loyal sicks… b u t i now have julieta tendencies and i h a t e it help’ crisis#would be very v e r y funny too. j. just imagine him picturing himself being princess carried by aizo despite being like. 10cm taller. l o l#…what am i even thinking how did i go from herohei to nagisa julieta crisis.#(alsooooo being toxic on main w o r k e d lmfaoooooo i haven’t seen hiyoship twt discourse in the hours since i posted it)#h a p p y l u c k y s m i l e h o o r a y ~ !#ig big brother truly is 👁️watching👁️ but hey my dash is purged so im not complainin~~~~~~#anyways!!!!!! herohei and its nghy uni arc hints triumphs all!!! enjoy your week ok byeeeee#the dude from gamushara
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balkanradfem · 10 months ago
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So I've found Alyssa Grenfell on youtube. She shares her experience of leaving mormonism, and the inner workings of the religion. I had very little ideas about what mormonism is, only that it's a high-control religion, very difficult to leave, and has people knocking on doors trying to get converts. I've been interested to find out more, and I ended up watching almost all of her content, and some of the information I've got from it opened my eyes on other feminist topics, and I believe is relevant to the current discourse!
So if you, like me, don't know how mormonism works, it started when a guy decided that he too could be a part of the bible; he wrote a bible part two: mormon, and proclaimed himself a prophet. Then he started a religion based on his writings, decided it was more important than the bible itself because he 'translated it from gold tablets god gave him', and started gaining followers by convincing people he's the prophet. Once he had managed to get a following, he soon started to sexually exploit the wives and daughters of these followers, to the point where he had 20-40 wives and had married 14yo children. Families allowed it to happen because he would promise them to be royalty in the afterlife. He eventually got into a lot of trouble for stealing and raping children so he was killed by an angry mob, but the religion continued.
The religion is same as christianity except more rules (no coffee, no alcohol, no smoking), eternal worship of the predator who wrote it, followers are pressured to follow the rules exactly, and, the vital part, the followers have to give 10% of their income to the church. They developed a culture where once every young mormon kid comes of age, they have to go on a 'mission', which means they're removed from their home, and have to spend 2 years (1,5 for women) living in a foreign area, knocking on doors, sharing the gospel, trying to convert people. The conversion rate is extremely low, but at that point kids have invested so much time, effort, energy and passion for the religion, they become devoted to it and start to feel alienated in the world that rejects their religion. And even with the low conversion rate, every new convert means another continuous source of income for the church. So it's very profitable to send out young adults to make these sales. The kids are told that if they don't complete their missions, they will not be able to marry, and marriage is presented as their only life purpose.
So how rich is the church at this point? 230 billion dollars. I've been shocked to hear this because I had no idea. Alyssa explained that the mormon church is as rich as Pepsi, they have more money than Disney and McDonalds. So you might be wondering, like I did, well what are they doing with all that money? I've been left to wonder this for a while, until I watched the video called 'Why are so many influencers mormon?', which explained it. I didn't even realize a lot of influencers were mormon. But, this video showed me something both disturbing, and eye opening.
Before I go into that, I have to point out how patriarchal and misogynistic this religion is. Women are not given any options except marriage, and it's presented as the only righteous way to live. They're groomed for marriage from a very young age, encouraged to start writing letters to their future husbands at the age of 9. They're taught cooking, sewing and childcare, and to coddle any males in the family. It's taken for granted that m*n won't respect women, to the point where male children are allowed to harass grown women and their families will not intervene or consider it a problem. Chastity and purity are promoted to the level where members of the religion are expected to wear special underwear at all times, which hides their entire torso, shoulders, and legs down to their knees, and their clothing is expected to cover this up completely. They're rejected by the religion if they dare to have sex before marriage, or drink alcohol or coffee, or in some cases, tea. The church has a history of allowing and promoting polygamy, in the sense that a male was allowed to have as many wives as he wanted; they've since stopped this, but refused to break up the existing marriages. They're also promoting anti gay and racist propaganda, which Alyssa observed in school where she'd been teaching; a gay kid almost ended his life due to extreme homophobia.
I know all of this is somewhat common in all areas of society, all religions, and all cultures, but in mormonism it seems to be written into the core of it.
So now, why are so many influencers mormon? I didn't even know they were. The influencers themselves are not promoting the fact that they're mormon, nor does it come up in viral discussions. Ballerina farm is mormon. Tradwives are mormon. Whataboutaub, Rachel Parcel, brooklynandbailey, tanner_mann, thebucketlistfamily, Taylor Frankie Paul, Sarah Beeston, Ruby Franke, these are all mormon. Most of the Utah-based influencers are mormon, and there's a bigger amount of successful and popular influencers from Utah, than from LA or NY.
For me it immediately explained why this viral content is like that. Why we're having such influx of highly patriarchal, anti-feminist, very dangerous and sexist content, put in front of the eyes of young women. Why it's being promoted as an ideal way of life. How are these women able to share this life as if they truly believed it was good and ideal. How could they think it's harmless? If they're using the internet to the extent that they're creating content, how would they not be exposed to any feminism at all? And they wouldn't because it's against their religion to engage with content like that, or with people talking about it. Because being raised in a high-control religion, they would truly believe their lives are the ideal. They would be presented with it as their only option, the only way of life possible for a woman.
It's heartbreaking because I can now understand why it was so easy to push Ballerina Farm to give up her entire life ambition to get married and carry children for a male she didn't even want to go out with, the pressure from the religion to do so would be immense, she would have been raised to see this as the only option, everything else in her life would be considered pointless. She wouldn't have an actual choice, she'd be groomed for this from the moment she was born. Mormons don't advertise 'looking for your soulmate', they only instruct women to marry a mormon male who completed his mission and make it work.
So how does the immensely rich mormon church play into this? I couldn't see it until Alyssa explained in a very detailed way how youtube content advertising works. I didn't know about this either, but here's the overview:
How much you get paid on youtube, instagram, tik-tok, or other online content platform, depends on what type of content it is, based on how much advertisers are willing to pay to put adverts on it. For instance, you get paid much more for finance content, because banks will pay premium prices to be advertised in a finance-related video. If you're making content on cooking, you get paid way less, because it's not such a lucrative field. If you're making content on christianity, you get similarly low price as for cooking, christian church is not that rich. But, if you're making content as a mormon, that's showcasing some aspect of a mormon life, even if you don't specifically say you're mormon, the price goes way up, to the point where it's as lucrative as finance. The mormon church is making sure that the mormon influencers are being paid premium prices for their content, because people who get massively interested in the influencers, eventually find out that it's the mormon life being advertised, and some of them consider taking on mormonism. Which gives church more converts, which means the church will earn more money. The content we're watching is one huge advert sponspored by mormon church, and we don't even know it.
Alyssa figured this out because her content falls under the keyword 'mormon', and her comments warned her that the church is advertising on her videos, even when she's making mormon-critical content. She then realized that she too was being paid a premium price for her views, just because they're mormon themed. She went on to discover that even just being an influencer in Utah will fetch a premium price, because most of mormons are based in Utah. For more detailed and comprehensive explanation on this, watch her video!
Advertising is not the only way the mormon church is spending their money, they've also built a shopping mall, and are basically spending their money by investing and gambling and everything any corporation does with their profits. It's making me mad, and also makes the members of the church mad when they discover where 10% of their income goes, because they're told it's being used for charity and community service, and not advertisments and building malls.
For me this solves a mystery of how is it possible, in this day and age to have such influx of tradwives and influencers of 'traditional life', they're being sponsored by an organization making a profit off of it, making sure that anyone making this content is so well paid, they're able to live off of it, and keep creating more of it, and in the process of doing that, groom young women into their lifestyle.
Learning more about religions, specifically high-control religions, makes me realize just how much of it is happening all around us, but invisible, not naming what it is. It's similar to MLM's, the people inside are constantly trying to lure more people in, to make profit for those on the top, while the organization keeps changing names and hides their business structure in order to save their reputation. People can get influenced by it, and sucked in, without even knowing about it. Somehow most MLM's are also in Utah.
Mormon church also asked to no longer be called that, in order to stop being associated with the words like 'cult', which people have identified it as. Now they're working under more secretive names, and hidden business practices, so we wouldn't even know what we're being influenced by, and why is the content in front of us what it is.    
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pawberri · 3 months ago
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hi! ik its not ur job to educate anybody or anything like that so feel free to ignore this and also kill me forever but if it was possible could u explain the whole discourse around transandrophobia/transmisogyny and tme/tma etc? ive been seeing it drift around for a while but i dont think i have a full grasp on what it's actually about and looking for explanations hasnt helped me
Its a cycle that has repeated in many spaces for many years
1. Women talk about feminism
2. Minority men notice that they are mistreated in society, sometimes in a way that is related to their gender, and sometimes even by the people who call themselves feminists.
3. Men talk about this to feminists. Some feminists make theoretical frameworks that account for the issues, and some do not. Minority feminists point out that those issues are a part of a spectrum of oppression that they also experience, but many try to make concessions to their counterparts' experiences. We're in this together, after all.
4. Minority men now have the choice to accept the intersectional feminist theory that accounts for their experience or reject it. The ones who reject it make a new phrase for their Movement of Men Who Are Oppressed For Being Men. They insist feminist theory is unconcerned with their plight.
5. When minority women in their community refuse to say that the men in their community are free of any misogynistic tendecy, structural privilege, or ability to cause harm, the movement shifts to center all its dialogue around the hostility and cruelty of Minority Women. This is framed as love that is so powerful it even transcends the hate the minority man constantly receives from his beloved minority women. Any minority woman that contradicts this is lumped in with whatever type of feminist theory the minority man can point to as opposing his community, whether they actually support that or not. They claim to support the Correct Feminism and tend to appropriate the language of feminist theory but Reversed.
6. Minority women see the futility of the argument and start to just state that minority men treat them like shit. They stop playing the game. They get mad. They say angry things, even mean things. A couple of them might even say Bad things.
7. Members of the group give up the pretense and just talk about the ontological evil of minority women and how they are the main oppressor of the minority man. They will develop their own talking points about all the structural privileges minority women have over minority men and will use and abuse any woman willing to shill for their ideology. They will probably point to some other community as a tokenized Oppressed Male while ignoring the women in that same community.
7. Eventually, the idea of this being a specific minority issue mostly falls away, and minority men start to point out the ways that even the straightest whitest cissest richest man is oppressed by feminism itself. Assured that no one is below them and they can do no harm, they comfortably form spaces that will accept any man but refuse all but the most servile of women. Their rhetoric trickles down in subtler forms to help get new recruits into their movement. Each new batch of men converted to their way of thinking can simply be blamed on feminism failing to account for them, no matter how hard minority women work to include men in their theory.
Basically a long series of choices where you're able to choose "belief in structural misogyny" or "belief in my own absolute helplessness," and you choose helplessness every time. At the expense of everyone in the world that you have the power to step on
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spale-vosver · 1 year ago
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About Me
UPDATE: Y'all lost anon privileges because you're too pussy to insult me and put a face to it.
I'm Geoff, a 22 year old history major and aspiring archivist. I use he/xe/xey pronouns, and I'm a crippled transsexual faggot Jew (finished my conversion on 4/29!!).
This blog, much like my interests, is very eclectic, and will largely consist of reblogs -- though I'm not opposed to making my own posts when the mood strikes.
I'm incredibly nerdy and love to ramble, so please don't hesitate to ask me about any of my interests! Said interests, along with more info, are under the cut. Also, please feel free to spam like and reblog, as well as message me!
* I am an adult
I'm 22, and will more than likely post adult content with NSFW text and subjects. However, I will never post explicit sexual content, gore, etc. This is your warning. Please keep this in mind if you choose to interact with or follow me!
* I'm disabled
I'm autistic, have ADHD, OCD, ARFID, BED, and OCPD. Physically, I have asthma, chronic leg and ankle pain that causes me to limp, dysautonomia, chronic fatigue, and suspected migraine disorder. I use identity first language (autistic man, disabled man, etc), and identify strongly with the cripplepunk movement. I personally don't care who uses the word cripple or identifies with the movement, but that's because I don't give a shit about slur discourse.
* I am Jewish
As of 4/29, I have finished my giyur classes and have been to my beit din/mikveh, making me officially Jewish! I do not and will not tolerate antisemitism, nor will I answer bad faith questions about Israel/Palestine. If you absolutely have to know my opinions, I'm pro-Palestine, pro-cohabitation, and politically anti-Kahanist and vehemently opposed to Likud and the Israeli government.
To my knowledge, I do not have any Jewish heritage -- both sides of my family are strongly Catholic and are from Ireland, Germany, and Poland. If there are any Jews in my family line, we either don't know about them or they converted to Christianity.
* I do not budge about my identity
I am a transsexual crippled faggot who supports dykes, trannies, cocksuckers, muffdivers, queers, fairies, aces, aros, and who, again, does not give a shit about slur discourse within the queer community. Don't try to start that with me. You will be blocked. I loudly and proudly support all good faith queer identities. Yes, even those ones.
* Interests
As mentioned, I'm a huge huge huge nerd! Right now I'm obsessed with Severance, but I'm a big sci-fi/fantasy fan in general. I also love trains and sustainable urban planning and am prone to going on rants about the absolute state of train travel in America.
* Please ask me to tag things!
I'm really bad about tagging in general, so please ask me to tag any potential triggers! I will probably forget if I'm not explicitly asked. However, I will not tag any slurs that I can reclaim or use.
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atropinenightshade · 6 months ago
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W♥e♥l♥c♥o♥m♥e♥ ♥t♥o♥ ♥m♥y♥ ♥B♥l♥o♥g
🏵⋆༺𓆩☠︎︎𓆪༻⋆🏵
ʜɪ! ɪ ᴀᴍ ʀᴀɪɴ.
I accept any pronouns. Just however you imagine me!
🏵⋆༺𓆩☠︎︎𓆪༻⋆🏵
"𝖄𝖔𝖚 𝖓𝖊𝖊𝖉 𝖆 𝖓𝖊𝖜 𝖈𝖑𝖊𝖆𝖓 𝖘𝖑𝖆𝖙𝖊 𝖜𝖎𝖙𝖍𝖔𝖚𝖙 𝖙𝖍𝖊 𝖉𝖊𝖓𝖙𝖘, 𝖆 𝖕𝖑𝖆𝖈𝖊 𝖙𝖔 𝖕𝖚𝖙 𝖞𝖔𝖚𝖗 𝖕𝖆𝖎𝖓, 𝖞𝖔𝖚𝖗 𝖈𝖔𝖓𝖘𝖊𝖖𝖚𝖊𝖓𝖈𝖊. 𝖂𝖍𝖊𝖓 𝖞𝖔𝖚 𝖑𝖔𝖔𝖐 𝖎𝖓𝖙𝖔 𝖙𝖍𝖊 𝖒𝖎𝖗𝖗𝖔𝖗, 𝖆𝖗𝖊 𝖞𝖔𝖚 𝖊𝖛𝖊𝖓 𝖙𝖍𝖊𝖗𝖊?"
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Let's see.
First off, we start with books. I'm fine with fantasy. No, I love it! I also enjoy historical fiction, history and nonfiction, science fiction, supernatural, mystery/whodunnit and paranormal stuff. I also tend to like classics, especially if it is Gothic literature or has adventure in it. Magical realism is nice too.
Specific book fandoms I'm in: mostly SGE (School for Good and Evil) and the prequels in particular, ROTSGE and FOTSGE (Rise and Fall). However, I do love Edgar Allan Poe, The Lunar Chronicles (TLC), Caraval and Once Upon a Broken Heart, the Belladonna trilogy, The Lord of the Rings, The Scarlet Pimpernel (book mostly), Jane Eyre, Jane Austen, The Inheritance Games and the spin offs. Feel free to ask me about other fandoms or books, not just SGE.
I enjoy poisonings and deaths, murder being included. Only to learn. Not to actually do it, of course.
I don't watch too much shows or movies, so I may be ignorant about them. Sorry! There's a list of them I want to watch though... and I'm open to recommendations.
I love diseases and I'm a huge GIANT MICROBES collector. Speaking of which, plushies and soft things are some of my favorites ever. It may seem childish but soft and/or fuzzy textures destress me. I am considering carrying a fuzzball in my pocket to use at work or something.
Also, anything spiritual goes as an interest, even if only to study it and not always do a practice of it.
I don't have that much access to video games and such, but some I do play are Honkai Star Rail, Roblox, Genshin (though not as often), Twisted Wonderland (sometimes), Minion Rush (I used to but I may again!), and some FNAF.
🏵⋆༺𓆩☠︎︎𓆪༻⋆🏵
"𝕴 𝖘𝖆𝖎𝖉, "𝕴𝖙'𝖘 𝖊𝖓𝖔𝖚𝖌𝖍," 𝕴 𝖇𝖊𝖌𝖌𝖊𝖉 𝖆𝖓𝖉 𝕴 𝖗𝖆𝖓 𝖎𝖓 𝖈𝖎𝖗𝖈𝖑𝖊𝖘 𝕴 𝖈𝖑𝖎𝖒𝖇𝖊𝖉 𝖙𝖔 𝖙𝖍𝖊 𝖘𝖚𝖓 𝕬𝖓𝖉 𝖋𝖊𝖑𝖑 𝖎𝖓 𝖆 𝖈𝖔𝖓𝖈𝖗𝖊𝖙𝖊 𝖏𝖚𝖓𝖌𝖑𝖊"
🏵⋆༺𓆩☠︎︎𓆪༻⋆🏵
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I don't mind most "politically incorrect" jokes or anything that otherwise may bother some people, but please be considerate when there are other people around. They may take it the wrong way, and understandably so. What I don't tolerate is religious blasphemy, suicide jokes, and jokes about SA and pedophilia. Again, keep in mind private jokes with me or your own group of friends may not be understood by others you don't interact with often, so everyone PLEASE be considerate.
No NSFW interactions via asks and no scams/asking for donations. I don't know you and I'll delete your messages or block you.
I don't take DMS from most people, so please ask first. I may not continue to message you after one time so please respect that. ALSO, unless we are roleplaying/emergency happens, if you have my other contacts like discord, please stick to one place and don't text me in a million different sites.
Be respectful of people's religious, political, fandom related, and so forth beliefs, even if they don't align with yours. if you really don't like someone, block. It's that easy. I don't accept most forms of cancelling on this blog.
No doxxing or plagiarism. Especially don't plagiarize my writing please, otherwise that earns you a block.
AGAIN no NSFW and no pedophile behavior, please. Some innuendo is fine but please don't become gross or overboard with it.
No discourse, especially political, activist, and religious debate on this blog. Also, no trying to convince me or convert me into any of the ideas above. I am interested in these issues, but only in certain spaces and most parts of tumblr are not one of them. I'd rather talk about them with people I know in real life or those I trust to keep a cool head and think for themselves. Plus a lot of it brings more negativity and hostility than necessary.
Do not involve me in another's drama. I could care less and I won't break my friendships if I wasn't personally hurt or it isn't something really bad.
I am not taking writing requests as of now, but suggestions are welcome.
Toxic behavior is not welcome, whether that comes from snowflakes, rad-SJWs, sexist and so forth.
Have fun around here, and don't be afraid to comment, send an ask, or engage! :)
🏵⋆༺𓆩☠︎︎𓆪༻⋆🏵
"𝖂𝖊 𝖇𝖔𝖙𝖍 𝖐𝖓𝖔𝖜 𝖏𝖚𝖘𝖙 𝖜𝖍𝖆𝖙 𝖜𝖊'𝖗𝖊 𝖍𝖊𝖗𝖊 𝖋𝖔𝖗, 𝕾𝖆𝖛𝖊𝖉 𝖙𝖔𝖔 𝖒𝖆𝖓𝖞 𝖙𝖎𝖒𝖊𝖘 𝕸𝖆𝖞𝖇𝖊 𝕴 𝖑𝖎𝖐𝖊 𝖙𝖍𝖎𝖘 𝖗𝖔𝖑𝖑𝖊𝖗 𝖈𝖔𝖆𝖘𝖙𝖊𝖗, 𝕸𝖆𝖞𝖇𝖊 𝖎𝖙 𝖐𝖊𝖊𝖕𝖘 𝖒𝖊 𝖍𝖎𝖌𝖍 𝕸𝖆𝖞𝖇𝖊 𝖙𝖍𝖊 𝖘𝖕𝖊𝖊𝖉, 𝖎𝖙 𝖇𝖗𝖎𝖓𝖌𝖘 𝖒𝖊 𝖈𝖑𝖔𝖘𝖊𝖗 𝕴 𝖈𝖔𝖚𝖑𝖉 𝖘𝖕𝖆𝖗𝖐𝖑𝖊 𝖚𝖕 𝖞𝖔𝖚𝖗 𝖊𝖞𝖊"
🏵⋆༺𓆩☠︎︎𓆪༻⋆🏵
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Wattpad
Ao3
The Ever Never Discord server
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vadergf · 2 years ago
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Dttwt are vile genuinely. None of them have said a word about Palestine or shared anything for weeks but thr second someone starts, its immediately moving to if this streamer doesn't speak up about it they are complicit in genocide. Actually the one thing I have learnt through this conflict is I'd rather celebrities shut the fuck up than say something they don't fully understand. Yes, in an ideal world everyone has the right opinions but this is not that world. It truly takes someone absolutely deranged to be worried about these semantics and trying to convert it into a fandom discourse moment rather than caring about the literal genocide
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mental-mona · 7 months ago
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Yeah from what I’ve heard about the rules for slavery aren’t you allowed to beat them as long as they get up after a day or two? I know that’s at least the Christian version?
I feel like it might be wishful thinking to assume they where against slavery even when those times where always against slavery
https://youtu.be/2-BrkpbwklM?si=e-Y7sg3-W3MwY7LM
The guy in this video is admittedly responding to a Catholic but he still goes into the details of the rules for the time and from what I’ve seen those rules weren’t actually so great.
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Let's just address all of this at once, and I'm gonna request that if you send me more asks, you try to send me one comprehensive one rather than a few separate short thoughts. Also, the odds of my randomly having time to watch another 56-minute video without cutting into time I need for something else are slim, so please don't send me another one anywhere near that long.
I'm gonna start off by saying that at some point I have read all of the Torah passages listed in the video and the slavery link I'll share in a minute, but I couldn't have begun to tell you precisely where to find them all to reference them previously. Yes, the verses largely say what Viced Rhino says they do. Yes, from a modern-day perspective these things are horrible, but Jewish tradition adds insane amounts of commentary and legal rulings to the basic Torah verses. Also, again, some of this is about changing choice parameters rather than a thing actively being condoned.
This link is a terrific roundup of what centuries of Jewish discourse have to say about Jewish and non-Jewish slaves: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/slavery-in-judaism , and yes, those categories differ. Yes, your context with the slavery verses is correct. Seriously, read the link for a much fuller picture than I can summarize for you in a quick response; it's long but not obscenely so.
I'm not going to tell you that atheists are always Bad and religious people are always Good, or that religious people are always better informed or more intellectually honest than atheists. There are better and worse actors on both sides; I have no great respect for either Dawkins stans or religious fundamentalists of any stripe.
I will say that Jewish theologians have always wrestled with the morality of things like the genocide of Amalek, and again, there are plenty of things (like taking a female prisoner of war as a wife) that are interpreted not according to their literal meaning and/or as relating to specific scenarios that are no longer relevant. We're not big on purely literal readings; if, as a clip in the video puts it, "a passage in the Bible says 2+2 = 5," we'd try to figure out what it actually was alluding to since obviously the literal meaning makes no sense.
I just read through a bunch of commentaries on the Israelites' revenge on the Midianites to be sure that I'm not making things up. The point of killing all the males was so that Midian wouldn't have inheritors; it would be wiped out. Killing the non-virgin females was because the women had of their own volition seduced the Israelites into sexual immorality, so a combo of revenge/punishment and making sure that they wouldn't be a problem again later. Keeping the virgin girls was about converting them into the Israelite nation so that they could eventually marry whoever wanted them, not sex slavery. (It is if we take Viced Rhino's approach that everything related to female captives is sex slavery, but would you have preferred that they too be killed? I'm not arguing the morality or immorality of genocidal revenge against the Midianites; that feels like it'd be a major research project to find and delve into a representative sample of opinions beyond simple "G-d commanded it, it was revenge, end of story," and I am just not up for that right now.)
Viced Rhino seems to be really keen on calling every Biblical war/conflict genocide. I'm...not so keen on that. I agree, Mike Winger's analysis ain't great, but I'm falling somewhere in between Winger and Viced Rhino in belief and interpretation.
Anyway, I promised you a thoughtful response, and the wee hours of Monday morning was the first point I had time to actually watch the video, research, formulate my thoughts, etc. I've queued this up for a normal hour my time. It's currently 3 AM here, I think this covers everything I want to say, and I'm just Done for now.
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lajikookbolala · 2 years ago
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Some thoughts on this shipping discourse
I have already expressed MULTIPLE times how much I hate drama, so this is probably gonna be my last post on this topic. In the future, I might post less, not at all, or often but with only positive stuff. I just don't know if I can mentally handle being on here for much longer. Anyway, here are some thoughts:
Trying to convince Tkkrs they are wrong is not going to work.
I would like to challenge anyone here to think of a time when someone ACTUALLY changed their opinion on something after an online argument. Can't think of one? Exactly. Humans are stubborn, it's just part of who we are. Especially online, nobody is actually open to changing their opinion on things. We argue just for the sake of arguing.
And, we have to remember that Tkkrs are JUST as confident that their ship is real as we (Jkkrs) are. It may be stupid, but as a former Tkkr I would know (I had just joined the fandom and I was young, don't blame me for falling for the Taekook bs). Anyway, when I say I was confident in my belief that's an understatement. Eventually, I did stumble across Jikook, and the story is actually very funny. Again, I had just joined the fandom and hilariously, my mom was starting to get into BTS too. One day, she stumbled across a Jikook video on youtube, called me in the room and showed me, saying "look how in love these two are". I was hesitant at first (still being a tkkr at the time), but I watched it with her, because she was my mother; someone that I knew and trusted. If some random person online had sent me the same video and told me to watch it, I wouldn't have. I would be pissed and ignore it. My point is, to convert me from a Tkkr to a Jkkr, it took my own mother showing me a video, and explaining to me that with her almost 60 years of life experience, she could tell they were in incredibly in love.
Nobody's gonna listen to a random person's opinion on line. At least, not with an open mind.
2. We're just giving toxic people the attention they want.
More than 50% of what I see on Jikook Tumblr recently is answers responding to toxic people's posts, whether those people are tkkrs, antis, or solo stans. Because we answer all their stupid questions, more of these people are coming out of the woodwork to share their own stupid opinions. And then it's just a toxic circle.
Even though it may give you some satisfaction to roast random strangers on the internet (I even enjoy reading roasts by jkkrs sometimes), it's really not worth it. We're just giving them the attention they want. If we just ignored them for a while and didn't answer their questions or respond to them, they wouldn't go away, but we would definitely see less of them on here.
Also, aren't we kinda being hypocrites? When tkkrs leave hate on Jikook posts we all get together to hate on them (which is justified) but we seem to have no problem when jkkrs leave hate on Taekook posts. I know it's different because Jikook is real and taekook isn't, but again, we're not going to convince them by leaving hate comments. We're just gonna piss them off more. Honestly, I think the only thing that would shut tkkrs up once and for all is if Jikook came out with their relationship, and we all know that's not going to happen, at least not anytime soon.
Ok, I think that's the end of my rant. Please let me know if you agree with me or not. If you disagree, I totally understand. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and I'm just sharing mine.
ALSO 3 more things:
1: please feel free to send me asks! I will respond to ALL of them as long as they are not toxic.
2: does anyone know any platforms where the Jikook community is welcoming and nice? It may sound stupid but I think that's what I really need right now. I have no BTS friends and would LOVE someone to talk to about them.
3: let me know if you would like me to stay on here. I'm almost definitely not gonna post any more stuff about this drama, but I will 100% post more cute and wholesome Jikook moments if y'all want me to.
I love you all, thank you so much 💜
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argentvive · 1 year ago
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Taylor Swift's "The Alchemy"
When the setlist came out and "The Alchemy" was on it, I posted that I wondered if the song might actually be literary alchemy. Now that the new album is out and I've seen the lyrics, I have to say I don't think it is. I have a few thoughts, though. Here are the lyrics.
This happens once every few lifetimes These chemicals hit me like white wine What if I told you I'm back? The hospital was a drag Worst sleep that I ever had I circled you on a map I haven't come around in so long But I'm coming back so strong
[Chorus] So when I touch down Call the amateurs and cut 'em from the team Ditch the clowns, get the crown Baby, I'm the one to beat 'Cause the sign on your heart Said it's still reserved for me Honestly, who are we to fight thе alchemy?
[Verse 2] Hey, you, what if I told you we'rе cool? That child's play back in school Is forgiven under my rule I haven't come around in so long But I'm making a comeback to where I belong
[Chorus] So when I touch down Call the amateurs and cut 'em from the team Ditch the clowns, get the crown Baby, I'm the one to beat 'Cause the sign on your heart Said it's still reserved for me Honestly, who are we to fight the alchemy? These blokes warm the benches We've been on a winning streak He jokes that it's heroin, but this time with an "E" 'Cause the sign on your heart Said it's still reserved for me Honestly, who are we to fight the alchemy?
[Bridge] Shirts off and your friends lift you up over their heads Beer stickin' to the floor, cheers chanted 'cause they said "There was no chance trying to be the greatest in the league" Where's the trophy? He just comes runnin' over to me
[Chorus] Touchdown Call the amateurs and cut 'em from the team Ditch the clowns, get the crown Baby, I'm the one to beat 'Cause the sign on your heart Said it's still reserved for me Honestly, who are we to fight the alchemy? These blokes warm the benches We've been on a winning streak He jokes that it's heroin, but this time with an "E" 'Cause the sign on your heart Said it's still reserved for me Honestly, who are we to fight the alchemy?
[Outro] This happens once every few lifetimes These chemicals hit me like white wine
The words "the alchemy" appear several times, but always in the same phrase, "who are we to fight the alchemy?" Why use that somewhat esoteric word rather than just "chemistry" or "destiny," both also three syllables? The short answer is that I think she wants to be more indirect, mysterious, but that her intended meaning is pretty close to "destiny."
What Is Alchemy?
There have been some pretty wild takes on this in the TTPD discourse--and maybe some of them even align with what Swift thinks. But if you want to go back to the original meaning of alchemy in the Western tradition, Michael Maier's diagram on the creation of the Philosopher's Stone is a good place to start (Atalanta fugiens, Emblem 21).
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The alchemist (on the left) joins together the Male Principle of the Work, who corresponds to fire and air, sun, red king, heart, etc., and the Female Principle of the Work, who corresponds to earth and water, moon, white queen, mind, etc. The Male and Female are opposites. Their reconciliation and joining creates the Philosopher's Stone, a red or red-purple stone. The alchemist then projects that Stone onto base metals to convert them to gold.
(The popular idea of alchemy is that the alchemist bends over and boils a chunk of lead in his cauldron and converts it directly to gold, omitting the creation of the Philosopher's Stone entirely.)
In any case, the key idea is that the alchemist is in charge; the Male and Female Principles are passive in the process. It seems that that idea survives in Swift's line "Who are we to fight the alchemy?" In other words, she and her partner are destined to be together by forces beyond their control.
She could have simply said ""fight destiny"--or "fight our destiny," to keep the same number of syllables. But she didn't. What else does she get from using the word "alchemy"? Most fundamentally, alchemy is transformation. If she knows that, then the song is suggesting that the lovers coming together is transforming them, elevating them to gold.
I'm sure this is a coincidence, but in the two lines before "Who are we to fight the alchemy," Swift's lover is marked as heart.
Cause the sign on your heart Said it's still reserved for me
As noted above, "heart" is a defining characteristic of the Male Principle of the Work. She doesn't define herself as "mind," though, at least not in this song. (You could read her reference to knowing Aristotle, in "So High School," that way.)
Another coincidental alchemy reference is in the line "ditch the clowns, get the crown." The Male Principle is often called the Red King (and the Female Principle the White Queen). You could read this line as her telling her partner to get the crown of the Red King. Or, you could just say it's a reference to the Super Bowl.
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Trismosin, Splendor Solis.
If you believe that the song is about Travis Kelce, then the Kansas City Chiefs' colours being red and gold work wonderfully well with alchemy: red, the colour of the Philosopher's Stone, and gold, the objective of the alchemical process.
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saint-augustines-pears · 2 years ago
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Saw the post that mentioned samhain and wanted to toss in some info (if you ever wanted more info about it, because I don't do discourse on tumblr) from a recent info thing I put together recently, because this misconception with the samhain debate drives me nuts
Samhain was a harvest festival that marked the start of the dark half of the year. Along with its springtime counterpart Beltane (which marked the growing season/light half of the year), it was announced based on the weather and was facilitated by and only by the Druids, a blood-identity pagan religion of upper class priests.
Samhain would be announced whenever the weather got cold enough. It was sometimes in early October or late September. It was sometimes in early November.
October 31st was never a thing for Samhain because the date always varied, and because the Druids, being Celts and existing before the Roman occupation of their lands, didn't use the Roman calendar nor did they use our modern Julian calendar.
You'll also hear how the Celts had a celebration on the last day of October unrelated to Samhain. This is true; on the last day of almost every month they had a minor celebration. Again, keep in mind too that the date was particular to the way their own culture counted months, not how Rome did it back then nor how we do it now.
it's true that the idea of "baptizing" traditions and holidays isn't unheard of when people and cultures convert from one religion to another. What's good to note is that this is not a forced thing, the baptizing of traditions; it's a practice that embraces older traditions and doesn't eradicate them. Conquerers would just eradicate them.
Technically, it is possible that the original date of All Saints got its chosen date, May 13th, via baptism of Lemuralia, a Roman holiday where spooky stuff happened regarding spirits and the dead. Christians instead chose to celebrate the joy of the Saints in heaven, because Jesus defeated death and the gates of hell won't prevail, etc, then the pope made stuff official calendar-wise.
However, when it comes to the Samhain debate, it's a myth that the Church picked that date to overtake it.  Pope Gregory III switched up the date of All Saints in the 700s to commemorate a new oratory (special chapel) at the Old St. Peter's Basilica that was built to honor the saints and martyrs.
At a time when there were pagan religions and holidays all over the place, to try and outdo one harvest festival of one religious cult in the far north of the known world thousands upon thousands of miles away from Rome and Constantinople simply wasn't a reason to change an established date of a major, international, intercontinental religious celebration. 
Most of these myths, along with a romanticizing of pagan religions much like modern-day's romanticizing of Norse religions and wiccan stuff, arose in England and Western Europe during the 1600 - 1700s by anti-Catholics and misinformed historians/the wealthy.
Anon I just want you to know that I am your biggest fan
Also, how did I not know it was called baptizing traditions/holidays??? That’s so awesome and I love it???
Thank you so much, this is so well put together and honestly kind of better than my post lmao
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tonitheloftwing · 1 year ago
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Quick Info Post
My name is Toni! My URL used to be jimzfinn. While my blog isn’t 18+ and I won’t post straight up NSFW on here, I might post stuff with adult themes or like, artistic nudity
I use she/they pronouns. I’m an aromantic lesbian, and I have a queerplatonic girlfriend who you will see me talk about a lot. My relationship with gender is very complicated but I’m feminine aligned, systemfluid/genderqueer, and consider myself to be detrans.
No kind of trans exclusion is welcome here, or any queer exclusion for that matter. I don’t have the mental energy to debate people but I want everyone to feel safe here regardless of what labels they use.
Current hyperfixations are Punch-Out!! and Itemlabel. Legend Of Zelda, Barenaked Ladies, and the general furry fandom/community are special interests of mine but not current hyperfixations like the first two. Also really into Ken Ashcorp, and the world’s #1 Charles “Chubs” Carrington Meriwether IV stan. Do you remember me The Darkest Minds 2020 tumblr?
Btw! If you see me reblog a post with a tag that says something like “I don’t go here, but”, it means that I’m not in the fandom I’m reblogging the art from, but still love what you’ve made :3 It’s just a way to distinguish for my followers what fandoms I’m in, versus someone making a gorgeous piece of fandom artwork that I’d be silly not to reblog!
Also note that despite my lesbianism I really like pathetic and/or balding middle aged man characters and will gush about them. But they’re like monsters to me. Would I date a werewolf girl if she was real? No, she’d rip me to pieces. But in fiction, I totally would. That’s how bald guys (or I guess guys in general) are to me okay
Finally, while I don’t do DNIs really, please don’t interact with me if you’re gonna be bigoted or try to start identity discourse. And for my own comfort, if I follow you, but we’re not mutuals, and you start posting/reblogging stuff from the Persona series, I will block you for my own comfort.
Here are all my sideblogs:
Stardew Valley: @slomps-stomp
Formerly a Neal Shusterman sideblog that has been mostly converted to activism for Palestine & criticizing Neal Shusterman: @arcofacatboy
Kin: @yourpeepysucksdotorg
System: @dreamcircuitsys
Gimmick blogs: @ur-fav-is-older-than-discokid & (wip)
Selfship: (WIP)
Carddddd
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automatismoateo · 10 months ago
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Arguing against religion is so hard. via /r/atheism
Arguing against religion is so hard. I'm Atheist. I don't care for peoples personal beliefs but I detest with every fiber of my being organized religion. I have been reading thousands of scholarly papers, studies, documents, books, etc. to try and extend my knowledge and better argue against religion. I'm not trying to "convert" anyone (lol) but I am trying to get them to admit organized systems of religion are extremely damaging to humanity, mental health and human rights. Catholics are some of the worst to argue against because their defenses are always some of the weakest, but their blind allegiance is very hard to combat. You get the standard "x y z religion is worse!", "that was years ago!". "it doesn't effect you so why do you care!" etc. But recently my gaps have really started to fill in knowledge wise and their arguments are really starting to collapse in, so suddenly personal attacks are really kicking up. I've been told I should go to a Muslim country and get r*ped (I'm female), I'm just upset because I'm unmarried and don't have kids (I'm in my very early 20s and have a boyfriend), I'm in a male dominated field seeking sexual attention, I'm deformed (I'm autistic) or defective, etc. I was perfectly okay with engaging on their terms, being the only one to bring evidence to the table, but now it's just personal attack after personal attack. It doesn't even hurt my feelings, it's just so utterly frustrating that I've put in so much effort to try and get them to admit the catholic church is utterly vile, but it's never enough or they just don't care. Is this a common problem in the discourse between atheists and religious people? Or am I just stupidly unlucky with the people I'm engaging with? Submitted September 08, 2024 at 11:44AM by creditcardmuncher (From Reddit https://ift.tt/St6hin8)
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swordofsuns · 1 year ago
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dnd arc 2 continued:
so we split the party (always a good idea) so that Red, Max, and Kit will deliver the goods to the lord, before meeting up with the rest of the party at the Fae Court. As they travel they notice more missing children posters that should be expected.
While we are heading out, we are quickly surrounded by a strange magic storm that engulf us. we hide in a cave for safety, and each take turns watching for danger. while Red sleeps, she has a weird dream where her adopted father (or at least what appears to be him) is teaching her how to hunt, but the prey is Ira. He ends up just repeating the words "take the shot" over and over again in her ear. when its Reds turn to be lookout she realizes that it is not a regular storm and up in the clouds she can see the wild hunt fighting some sort of a monster. Because she really wants to prove herself to the huntsman, she walks out, into the middle of the storm to try and help out, and manages to actualy roll a nat 20, shooting the beast through the heart, and it falls to the earth (the beast seems to be some sort of bloodsucker) (also as she shoots the beast she once again hears the words "take the shot" but they no longer sound like her father and instead are in a voice she does not recognize). The Ent-Jaren give her a portion of the beasts hide, in just enough for her to make herself a new cloak from it, and bow to her, before she passes out from exaustion
also kit has a dream where they are back in the weird light sunrise dimention from the backstory and meet a magic glowing fox, but they dont remember any of it when they wake up.
In the morning, Max digs Red out of the snow and they carry on.
They come accross a tavern. Others have noticed the rise in missing children and some even claim it was done by the Pied Piper himself. Silver also starts going missing and we have a sort of murder mistery exept instead of murder all we have to do is find out who in the tavern is stealing silver. In the end we catch the theif and the townsfolk try and hang him, but we help him escape his death. he also mentions that he was working for somebody but he doesnt know who only that they needed a lot of silver and would pay him greatly.
eventualy we make it to the lord, who turns out to be an orphaned child named Cisero and his exedingly polite masive half orc bodygaurd/butler. Cisero is an inventor and a scholar of the fae, who, plot twist, has also been invited to the Fae Court and invites us to travel with him there as well compete in his name during the games. (by the way bit of explanation of how the court works. basicaly whenever they have an important debate or discourse on how they should move forward they choose 2 representatives of both of the options, as well as a bunch of adventurers, and have them all meet up and compete in games for votes that they can use to vote for which of the two competitors are right. in the end whoever has the more votes wins the debate.) Kit also imedeately starts a rivalry with Cisero after making fun of him for being an orphan 5 minuites after they meet. Cisero also mentiones that his competitor is called "The Poppyseed King". He is being kinda cagey about what the debate is about, but he mentions that it is about a "coming crisis" and whether the fae should respond by joining forces and integrating with humans or isolating and increasing their tithe to hell. (another lore thing to explain. Fae are the phisical embodiments of stories, and are very powerful, but extremely weak to Demons and The Lost. In order to protect themselves, every year, they convert some of their members into Devils, who are powerful blacksmiths and fighters, who are extremely good at fighting demons and lost. however because more fae are converted every year that new stories are made, the fae are slowly dying.) Cisero is pro integration with humans while King is pro isolation from humans.
We travel with him for a bit and make some gifts to offer to the court, but we keep seeing that more and more children have been going missing, and that silver seems to be dissapeering all over as well. Braxton does some investigation and finds that the missing children seems to all be roughly in a straight line from the west towards the city where the fae court will be meeting.
ending this one here for now its getting a bit long.
oh. This is So intresting and does Not bode well
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maximuswolf · 1 year ago
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[Discussion] People are turning the Sweet Baby Inc. issue into something it's not.
[Discussion] People are turning the Sweet Baby Inc. issue into something it's not. Let's be real, the Sweet Baby Inc. isn't "Gamergate 2.0," and it never was. The SBI drama is about blatant racism, sexism, and discrimination within the company, and both SBI's supporters and the media (like Kotaku - who openly back companies like SBI) are trying to convert it into another facet of the ongoing culture war.Look, I don't have a problem with diversity in video games. Honestly, I think it's normal and expected for games to have characters from different ethnicities, or characters that have different sexualities. And as long as a character is well written, I don't really care if they're a "diversity include." My real problem is solely with SBI, the people working for them, and the media and "games journalists" who openly defend these people.These people are openly bigoted and racist, making public statements on social media like "You can't be racist to straight, white men" (on their professional business accounts no less). Plus, there are videos of the company's CEO openly admitting to discriminating against straight, white men via employment (which is illegal, by the way) and saying derogatory things about white people.And despite that, these are the same people who claim to make stories more "diverse and inclusive." Bitch, you can't be inclusive while still hating and discriminating against a group of people, regardless of whether they're a minority or not. Discrimination is discrimination. Racism is racism. There's no way around that.And look, I'm not writing this as rage bait, to karma farm, or to be uncivil or offensive. And I know that I'm already quite late to the party (pretty sure this all started two or three weeks ago). The reason I'm making this post is because online discourse regarding the SBI issue has become so diluted that the original meaning is being lost. Let it be clear, this IS NOT a woke vs. anti-woke issue. It's not "toxic male gamers" hating diversity and inclusion, or "woke social-justice warriors" destroying your favorite games. It's blatant racism and sexism being lauded as "inclusion and diversity," and the exploitation of cancel culture to suppress dissenting opinions on an uncomfortable subject.That is truly what the SBI drama is about.Also, mods, if this post violates any of the rules: Sorry about that. I tried my best to be as upfront as possible without crossing the line. Submitted April 12, 2024 at 03:45PM by CodePandorumxGod https://ift.tt/elMRAZp via /r/gaming
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beatrice-otter · 3 years ago
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Is Christmas pagan?
There’s a shitton of discourse around this every year, and a lot of the assumptions people have about the origins of Christmas and many Christmas traditions are either flat-out untrue or have no evidence behind them.
First is the claim that the date of Christmas is pagan in origin, that it was a co-opting of a Roman pagan holiday. This claim was made up in the 20th Century when people noticed that a) there were actually two different Roman holidays that overlapped with December 25th (Saturnalia and the Feast of the Unconquered Sun) and b) the accounts of feasting and partying for Saturnalia (we don’t have good records about the Feast of the Unconquered Sun, it was from one of the secretive mystery cults) sound a lot like the feasting and partying we do today for Christmas. There’s no evidence for this claim beyond “this sounds like it would make sense.” And there are significant problems with it.
Christmas was the last of the major holidays to be added to the Christian calendar, in the 4th Century AD; it’s not in the New Testament (unlike Easter and Pentecost, the two most theologically important holy days in the Christian calendar). We have the contemporary account of how they chose the date, which is not about pagan holidays but rather about numerology. They might have been lying, of course; but just because ancient numerology doesn’t make sense to modern people that doesn’t mean that they were lying about it. If you’re curious, here’s the story of how the calculations were made: at that time, they believed that Jesus had died on March 25. Jesus was perfect, therefore Jesus must have had a perfect life in numerological terms as well as everything else, therefore he must have died on the anniversary of his conception. (This is why Catholics celebrate the Annunciation--the day the angel came to Mary--as March 25th.) If Jesus was conceived on March 25th and had a perfect nine-month pregnancy, that puts his birth at December 25th.
As for the partying, Christmas was a time of fasting in the early church, not a time of partying. Solemn prayer and hymn-singing. No meat. Long worship services. If the date was chosen in relation to either Saturnalia or the Feast of the Unconquered Sun, the purpose was not to co-opt the pagan partying and say “hey, you can still have your midwinter parties in the Christian church!” but rather to contrast the drunken debauchery of the pagans with the sober piety of the Christians.
Christmas just wasn’t that important a date until Christianity started moving north (it shared prominence with Epiphany in the middle of winter, and was much less important than Easter). Up north, where the days are very short and everything is cold and dark, celebrating something in the middle of winter is very important to keep spirits up. And yes, the Germanic tribes and the Nordic peoples and the Slavs all had major festivals in midwinter, and many of the traditions associated with those festivals got attached to Christmas. (Trees, burning the Yule log, etc., etc.) But even up in the North where Christmas was much more important than it was in southern Europe, Christmas didn’t become The Biggest Celebration Of The Christian Year until the Victorians in the 19th Century.
Back to those pagan Germanic customs. Christian missionaries did not take those elements and incorporate them into Christmas celebrations. In fact, Christian missionaries and priests spent centuries trying to stamp those pagan elements out! They spent centuries telling people they were going to hell for still practicing paganism if they celebrated Christmas in a pagan way. For every priest who accepted or encouraged those pagan traditions, there were ten more trying diligently to stamp them out.
The pagan customs--trees, holly, etc.--have not survived because Christian priests co-opted and appropriated them. They have survived because the people who first practiced those customs kept them after converting, despite centuries of Christian authorities trying to stamp them out.
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