#vedanta

[dearfear777]

[vedanta-darshan]

[lains-reality]

the 2 paths in nondualism.

this is kind of an answer to an anon, who kept id-ing as the body mind.

Hey, firstly thank you so much for all your amazing posts, I feel so good when I read them. I'm new to this concept and the thing that i wanna manifest is height. I mean i know all the information, I always try to apply. but how do get rid of the feeling that creeps up inside me every morning, when i wake up and see no difference in my height?

i already have a post on manifestation & an anon answer where they have a similar situation

i have written before that you don't need to get rid of feelings. they're rising up for you to release them, not resist them, accept that the feeling is there (& any other stories attached to it)

now see that you don't crumble or disappear when you feel bad? the feeling is not You, it's the characters

now i've felt like the emotional represenation of burning before (along the lines of "just kill me now 😭"), but! you are still aware during those times. you're still able to feel 'I AM'? then it's not you 'burning' its the character 'burning', but when you take yourself to be the character, you burn

you seek to get rid of the feeling because you think it's real, you see those stories the mind creates as real. you think they can do something to you. this can all be "fixed" with right identification

you wake up and see no difference because you see yourself as the character (body-mind). all is Self, all the bodies are yours. there's no separation

firstly, here's one reading and another i think you should read.

so in nondualism there are 2 paths to recognising you are not the body-mind. direct and indirect. i actually thought that the four yoga's were the pathways but i got them mixed up! but they are still useful and i'll talk about them in the end.

firstly, a nice disclaimer from reddit:

"I did what’s called “direct looking” or “direct pointing” which included meditation and it “took” 2 years. But be careful there, very careful. When we get in the mode of “attaining something” and being concerned with “how fast can I add this to ‘me’?” we are reinforcing the self we are hoping to directly see is not real. This will ALWAYS prolong or inhibit the seeing. Just do, don’t make it a ‘goal.’ Many people (most) fall into this trap at some point and ONLY THAT is what prolongs things. Like all of this, it is always a paradox! If it doesn’t ‘feel’ like an acceptance or surrender then something is not quite right. A ‘chase’ is not the right environment for seeing."

this is why i said in other answers to just go and live and love. do not prolong anything, you already are not the body. as a beginner you might want to decide how you're going to remember that though, hence why the paths exist.

source for the following paragraphs.

the direct path

All you need is to get rid of the tendency to define yourself. All definitions apply to your body only and its expressions. Once this obsession with the body goes, you will revert to your natural state, spontaneously and effortlessly. - nisargadatta 'i am that'

this path is based off just seeing that you are Self. abiding in awareness. sitting in it. kind of Just Do It vibe. this seems to suit a lot of us as it seems we have come from other teachings about consciouness

"... this direct path is quite a bit more effective for people who have gone through the progressive (indirect) path, so people who have tried everything or have lean into a certain sticking point that they never got past"

the direct path is described as experiential or contemplative and requires the mind to be a bit stable. able to stay on one track.

the indirect path

if you're not able to stay one track with the mind or bring yourself back to the truth, then this is what meditating, chanting, reading etc, is for. the meditations don't achieve realisation, they just prepare you.

"... but if you've come to it from never having done anything then it (direct path) can seem too abstract"

i think you'll go back and forth between both. no need try and discern between what you're doing though.

i like conviction and self inquiry, which is what nisargadatta says to his followers. but do what you want! as long as you remember who you are, it doesn't matter what you do.

the only thing that i'd really recommend is self inquiry.

tbh i've never cared about the direct or indirect path. the yoga paths seemed to be more practical? like i'd read something and i'd be able to tell 'oh they seem to be focused on self surrender'. anyway i'll talk about them now.

in summary, (reddit is a mess, but the answers always come through!)

Direct path = accepting everything is "like a dream", including the quest for enlightenment and the individual who does it. Progressive path = exhausting "the seeker" who appears "in the dream" and finally coming to the conclusion above.

you don't need some explosion "oh my god!!" experience for realisation. as long as you know that you are not the character, you're doing the right thing.

the 4 yoga paths

yoga as you can tell below, has non-dual teachings. its vedanta yoga i'm talking of here (whilst nondualism = advaita vedanta)

"the goal of yoga is to unite oneself with God; the practice of yoga is the path we take to accomplish this." [source]

i'll talk about them because they are interesting lol. please read the page i linked because its more indepth than the 3 lines i wrote here.

path of love

"Bhakti yoga is the path of devotion, the method of attaining God through love and the loving recollection of God."

i think this is similar to what lester levenson did, he "squared everything with love" as he realised that he felt love when he was being loving, and not when he was loved himself. so he decided to love everything and everyone.

this is about loving and using love as a way to drop the character.

path of knowledge

"Jnana yoga is the yoga of knowledge--not knowledge in the intellectual sense--but the knowledge of Brahman and Atman and the realization of their unity. Where the devotee of God follows the promptings of the heart, the jnani (followers) uses the powers of the mind to discriminate between the real and the unreal, the permanent and the transitory."

the path of work

"Karma yoga is the yoga of action or work; specifically, karma yoga is the path of dedicated work: renouncing the results of our actions as a spiritual offering rather than hoarding the results for ourselves."

when we work its usually for our jobs, an award, for others etc -> expectations and anticipation. this yoga is saying to let go of the expectations and let Self take care of it.

this reminds me of 'the surrender experiment' by micheal singer!

the path of meditation

"The basic premise of raja yoga is that our perception of the divine Self is obscured by the disturbances of the mind. If the mind can be made still and pure, the Self will automatically, instantaneously, shine forth."

this involves quieting thoughts and using meditation to control the mind.

personally, i like the direct path more. i've been lurking around spiritual topics for years now, so i'd just like to get to the point. however, if you haven't or you just don't get it all - this is why i advise self inquiry. i already have a post on it and an anon answer on it. disbelief and doubting will help point you towards your Self and makes it much easier to remember Self.

as you can see with the yoga paths, nothing will stop you except wrong identification.

eventually, you'll even drop this knowledge. there'll be no need for this either.

[blessed1neha]

What is the purpose of chanting mantras in Hinduism?

To connect with the divine. Mantras are frequently visible as sacred sounds that may assist to attach the practitioner with the divine. When chanted with focus and attention, mantras can assist to quiet the mind and open the coronary heart, taking into consideration a deeper revel in of oneness with the divine.

To invoke a deity or energy. Mantras also can be used to invoke a selected deity or electricity. For instance, the mantra "Om Namah Shivaya" is frequently used to invoke the Hindu god Shiva. When chanted with the proper purpose, mantras can assist to deliver the practitioner into alignment with the characteristics and energies of the deity or power being invoked.

To create wonderful change. Mantras can also be used to create effective alternate in the practitioner's lifestyles. For example, the mantra "Om Shanti" is often used to convey peace and calmness to the mind. When chanted often, mantras can help to promote superb qualities such as love, compassion, and know-how.

To heal the frame and thoughts. Mantras have also been proven to have a advantageous effect on the frame and mind. For example, chanting mantras can assist to reduce stress, improve awareness, and improve the immune gadget. In some instances, mantras have even been used to help people heal from bodily and emotional ailments.

[psicologiadealtaconsciencia]

Tienes qué morir para ser lo que ya eres

Bhagavan: No hay que ayudar a los demás. Cuando trasciendes la conciencia del cuerpo, los demás también desaparecen. El realizado no ve al mundo como diferente de sí mismo.

Reflexion: La hija menor de un amigo está atravesando una crisis emocional, como la que atraviesan muchos jóvenes en estos tiempos, así que siendo padre obviamente quiere ayudarla. ¿Pero puede ayudarla realmente? Ella tiene que experimentar lo que está en su prarabdha, así que tiene que luchar su propia batalla. Podemos estar ahí para ella, pero no podemos luchar su batalla en su nombre. Podemos ponernos a su disposición para estar ahí siempre que nos necesite, pero más allá de eso no podemos hacer mucho para ayudarnos, ¿verdad?

Sin embargo, tenemos que intentar llegar a una etapa en la que no veamos a nadie más. Mientras sienta que "tengo que ayudar a mi hija", sigue habiendo un "yo" presente que siente que debe ayudar. Así que mi tarea debe ser eliminar este ego, y cuando sea capaz de hacerlo, automáticamente ayudaré a todos.

Porque cuando mi ego desaparezca, la gracia que es Bhagavân brillará y ayudará directamente a los demás en lo que necesiten. Así pues, nuestro yo es un obstáculo y, por consiguiente, nunca podremos ayudar plenamente a los demás si nos mantenemos como ego y obstruimos la luz de la gracia de Bhagavân. Bhagavân solía decir: Tu gloria está cuando dejas de existir.

[eyeoftheheart]

“The personhood of man proves, totally and irrefutably, the idea of a creator God who is Will, Intelligence, and Love, otherwise how would man be endowed with these very same faculties? These faculties are ideally defined in the wisdom of Vedanta as Being, Consciousness, and Beatitude or Sat, Chit, Ananda. Now, when defined in depth, the essence of Being (Sat) becomes pure strength or Will; that of Consciousness (Chit) pure wisdom or Intelligence; and that of Beatitude (Ananda) pure Love; and this triad amounts to as essential and universal a name given to God as can be formulated in human language: Satchitananda. In turn, these three attributes constitute the essence of man’s faculties; and since they cannot emerge from nothing, least of all from matter, they can only be proof of a Supreme Being that possesses them originally in His very nature and hence can bestow them.”

― Mark Perry, The Mystery of Individuality: Grandeur and Delusion of the Human Condition

[errantabbot]

Nonduality and Passion

The ability to compassionately percieve multiple (even oppositional) perspectives is a prerequisite to any claim of nondual awareness.

Feigned nondual awareness is that which remains encumbered by impassioned unilateral thinking and views, attached as they are to notions of superiority and inferiority.

Just as awakening transmutes anger into sadness, so too does it neutralize duality’s passions in yielding true vision and equanimity.

~Sunyananda

[apenitentialprayer]

[E]mbarrassment is not repentance.

Swami Kripalvananda (from his The Passion of Christ, an imaginative meditation on Christ's final hours, page 18)

[satishwig]

Oppenheimer's Dilemma

                                        

          The Hollywood movie based on the life of Oppenheimer, father of Atomic Bomb, has created a sort of flirt in the minds of the people, chiefly due to some reference therein to the Bhagavad Gita.  Moviegoers (now of course, movie-watchers since movies are now available on OTT) are naturally to form opinions about the message of Gita on the basis of what has been depicted therein.  In fact, there are certain people who allege that Gita is about warfare. There have been even attempts in USSR and USA seeking ban on Gita on the premise that it is about warfare and violence. In this movie also, Oppenheimer is depicted as somewhat justifying the death and destruction that took place at Hiroshima and Nagasaki following the discovery of Nuclear Bomb by alluding to Gita.  Arjuna, who was arraigned against his own kith and kin in the battlefield of Kurukshetra, did not want to kill his own people, but Lord Krishna was exhorting him to do his prescribed duty and his duty was to fight and kill his opponents since Arjuna belonged to Kshatriya caste (a warrior class). Hence, the opinion that Gita is about warfare and violence simply because the Gita was said in battlefield and the backdrop was warfare or fratricide.

          In my view, the said opinion is formed on the basis of superficial knowledge of Gita and is the result of bias and prejudice. Gita was said to Arjuna in the battlefield of Kurukshetra in the backdrop of war but it is not about warfare. The dilemma that Arjuna faced in the battlefield is not the dilemma of Arjuna only; it is the dilemma of common man who is torn apart by conflict and confusion, affection and aversion and the bipolarities of the worldly existence. Gita is relevant not only to Arjuna but to the common man in the society who too wages a battle of life and death and is encountered with warlike situation. Gita teaches him to rise above these polarities and to perform his prescribed duty without affection and aversion and without seeking the fruits thereof.  Hence, message of Gita is relevant to all people of all ages.

But, the message of Gita is not confined only as to how the worldly duties should be performed, as some people think that Gita is all about Karma or Karma Yoga. It is far more profound and sublime.  Gita is the core of Hindu (Vedanta) philosophy. It is an inquiry into the nature of man; it is an inquiry into the nature of God; it is an inquiry of Universe and the relation of man with the Universe and the God. “It is an Upanishad that is sung by the Lord; it is the science of Brahman; it is the scripture of Yoga as part of the dialogue between Sri Krishna and Arjuna...” So is given at the end of every Chapter of Gita that contains 18 Chapters.

          Gita is an Upanishad. It is the core Vedanta philosophy. Vedanta means “end of Vedas”(Shruti) upon which the entire superstructure of Hindu philosophy is based. There are  108 Upanishads out of which 11 are basic, which along with Brahmsutra of Ved Vyasa (his commentary on Vedas) forms core of the Vedantic philosophy whereas Puranas are an afterthought written by rishis (spiritual scientists  or poets)  as an extension of Vedas and thus called ‘Smriti.’ These are in the form of story-telling mixed of mythology, history and philosophy; hence they have tremendous appeal to the masses.

 Gita is science of Brahman. It defines Brahman, Ishwara (God) and relation of man with God and Brahman.  The concept of Brahman is different from God.  Brahman is the common substratum of Jiva (creature), Ishwara (God)  and in fact the entire creation and beyond.  Brahman is all pervading and is beyond time and causation. It even surpasses God. The subject matter of Vedanta or Vedic culture is in fact Brahman and not God. That is why it is said that India is a Godless culture. Lord Krishna in Gita identifies Himself at times with Ishwara (God), sometimes with Brahman and sometimes with Jiva.

 The practical lesson of Gita to man consists of four yogas i.e. Karma Yoga, Raj Yoga (Yoga of Psychic control), Jnana Yoga (Yoga of Knowledge) and Bhakti Yoga (Yoga of Devotion) along with certain values, practicing which one can go beyond grief and sorrow and attains peace and tranquility. Thus, to say that Gita is about warfare and violence is to do violence against Gita itself.  

Anyhow, was Oppenheimer right in justifying his creation of Atom Bomb that was followed by death and destruction caused by the use of it, by quoting from Gita? When Lord Krishna reveals his Universal form to Arjuna in XIth Chapter Verse 32 and tells Arjuna that he is ‘Kala’ which was interpreted as “Destroyer of the Universe”, he in fact was revealing the core philosophy of life and death.  According to Hindu philosophy, God has basically three chief functions to perform: creation, preservation and destruction. This is remarkable feature of Hindu philosophy as death is considered logical concomitant to life and destruction to that of creation. This cycle of birth and death, creation and destruction -  is endless. If creation is done by God, then by whom the destruction is done?  It is God alone who creates and destroys and creates again to destroy. He is ‘Kala’ (or Kali – Mother form of God) and all are under His sway, that is, the sway of Time (Kala means “Time”). All that has been created by Time will be sucked up by Time unless one has gone beyond Time and become one with Brahman who is beyond Time and Causation. Everything that is compound has to decompose and out of the decomposed components, compound is formed again. This is the law of Nature and Science accepts it (except that God is the Controller.)  Thus, according to Hindu philosophy, God is not only Creator (Brahma); Preserver (Vishnu) but He is also Destroyer (Shiva), although as Brahman, God is beyond creation and destruction; He is beyond good and evil. 

When Lord Krishna says, he is ‘Kala’, he was identifying himself as Ishwara (God) and telling Arjuna that in fact He is the doer. Therefore,  Arjuna  should not consider himself to be the doer and incur the consequences of doership.  God in fact is only the doer.  Arjuna should become an instrument in the hands of God and perform his prescribed duty. And, in this way he would not incur any sin.  This, in fact is Karma Yoga i.e. to become an instrument into the hands of Almighty while performing one’s duty.

 According to Oppenheim, he too was acting as an instrument in the hands of God and he was, therefore, not the cause of destruction. He quotes Verse 17 from Chapter XVIII, which says, “He whose mind is free from the sense of doership, and whose reason is not affected by worldly objects and activities, does not really kill, even having killed all these people, nor does any sin accrues to him.”   But, whether Oppenheimer was really an instrument of God and free from the sense of doership?  Was his reason not affected by worldly objects and activities? Was he performing his duties selflessly, without affection or aversion or without his personal ambitions or national objects?          

          Christopher Nolan’s movie is based on ‘American Prometheus’, which is a biography of Oppenheimer written by Kai Bird and Martin J Shervin. His biography (not the movie) faithfully reveals the moral quandaries that Oppenheimer was facing. The dilemma that Oppenheimer faced was: whether to follow the dictates of his own conscience or the dictates of his Political and Military masters who had an agenda and the agenda was that Allied forces never wanted Nazi Germany to win the race to produce the bomb.

 The dilemma of Arjuna, on the other hand, was that he was arraigned against his own kinsmen in the battlefield of Kurukshetra, to fight a war of righteousness versus unrighteousness. Arjuna did not want the conquest nor the spoils of conquest.  He did not want even the rule over three worlds, what to talk of the small Kingdom that was called Hastinapur at that time.  He instead wanted to lead the life of an ascetic. And if it so happens, let his opponents kill him instead of him killing them. In the midst of this all, however Lord Krishna told him to perform his prescribed duty in this war between righteous and unrighteous forces instead of running away from war.  Krishna told that God is the only doer.  Arjuna should become an instrument in the hands of God and perform his prescribed duty.

 Was Oppenheimer too acting an instrument in the hands of God? The Allied Forces wanted to teach a lesson to Germany, Italy and Japan.  Hence, the bomb was to be created for the sake of hegemony of Allied Forces. Oppenheimer could not stand up against this official justification of creating a deterrent, which was to be experimented on human beings. And nevertheless, it was not a war between righteousness and unrighteousness. Thus, clearly he was acting as an instrument into the hands of his political masters.  The film, therefore, is not a faithful depiction of the biography.  It does not answer the question: why the bomb was used when the war had stopped.  It is in fact a subtle attempt to whitewash the sins committed by the Allied to have upper hand in War and Christopher has made an attempt to hide the massacre of humanity behind a selective reference to Gita, a Hindu scripture.

Article by Satish Kumar Wig

[dearfear777]

"Vedanta gives you what you already have and it removes what was never there"

"If our problems are due to ignorance then there are really no problems. If solution is due to knowledge then that solution is already with you"

[ylespar]

"This issue leads us directly to touch upon a philosophic position known as 'dual-aspect monism' adopted first by Spinoza (see Ravven, 2013) as well as by Jung and Pauli many years ago (Atmanspacher, 2012), and recently re-proposed by Mark Solms and other neuro-psychoanalysts (Kaplan-Solms and Solms, 2000). According to such a view, the material and the subjective worlds are two complementary manifestations of a unique, albeit perhaps unknowable unitary reality, to which Jung refers with the concept of 'psychoid'. The presence of such underlying dimension has been widely underlined in Eastern cultural tradition, as well in some Western philosopher, such as A.N. Withehead (1929). In the 20th century, its existence was revealed by the study of quanto-mechanic processes in physics, and of unconscious processes in analytical psychology. Both disciplines recognized the influence of unobservable (paradoxical) phenomena within the normal flow of observable material and mental events."

Antonio Alcaro, Stefano Carta, and Jaak Panksepp, "The Affective Core of the Self: A Neuro-Archetypical Perspective on the Foundations of Human (and Animal) Subjectivity," p. 7.

[vedanta-darshan]

[sspacegodd]

How come what I need is never what I want?

[blessed1neha]

The secret told by Shri Krishna

The secret told by Shri Krishna

There is no character more attractive than Lord Krishna in Mahabharata. People who have read Mahabharata have many doubts in their minds about such character of Lord Krishna.

Why did the Pandavas have to face so many difficulties despite the presence of Krishna? If Draupadi calls but Krishna does not come? Could Krishna have stopped Dharamraj from going gambling? Like Suodhan had played with Shakuni, Dharmaraj might have played with Krishna in the same way? Why didn't all this happen? Unless you are in danger, can't you stop the danger from coming? Many such questions naturally arise.

Lord Shri Krishna also answered these. At the end of Mahabharata, the above questions were asked by Uddhava to Lord Krishna.

Uddhavadu: And you are very close to the Pandavas, right? Can you stop Dharamraj from gambling or would you have gambled on Dharamraj's behalf?

Krishna: Uddava! Remember, the wise always wins. Suodhana was intelligent and played with Shakuni because he did not know how to play. Dharamraj did not have that intelligence. It would have been different if Dharmaraju had also asked me to play, but he did not. I was waiting at the door for him to call. He didn't call, he prayed that I wouldn't come that way. Because of his request I did not go. All the other Pandavas were scolding Dharmaraja for his defeat but he did not call me. Even Draupadi did not remember me until she took off her clothes. If I had been called, wouldn't I have come?

Uddhavadu: Does this mean that if you are in grave danger and you have been called but you will not come?

Krishna: Whatever happens in life happens according to karma. I can't change karma, but I will be with you and see everything.

Uddhavadu: What I mean to say is that when we are trapped in trouble, danger and confusion, what do you do except staying with us and watching us?

Krishna: Uddava! You are not noticing one thing here. How can you make a real mistake if you can see that I'm right next to you? But you have forgotten that I am there.. You do not know me, you make mistakes and suffer the consequences of those mistakes. Recognize and remember me who is always with you…do the work…then see how sweet will be the fruit of that work..

That secret has been told by Krishna. It is enough to have the vision that Krishna is always with us. If you remember that he is next to you, watching everything..

Our life goes on smoothly. This is the main secret which Lord Krishna told to Uddhav.

[edwordsmyth]

"It is not possible that this unity of knowledge, feeling and choice which you call your own should have sprung into being from nothingness at a given moment not so long ago; rather this knowledge, feeling and choice are essentially eternal and unchangeable and numerically one in all sensitive beings. But not in this sense—that you are a part, a piece, of an eternal, infinite being, an aspect or modification of it, as in Spinoza’s pantheism. For we should then have the same baffling question: which part, which aspect are you? what, objectively, differentiates it from the others? No, but, inconceivable as it seems to ordinary reason, you—and all other conscious beings as such—are all in all. Hence this life of yours which you are living is not merely a piece of the entire existence, but is in a certain sense the whole; only this whole is not so constituted that it can be surveyed in one single glance.

Thus you can throw yourself flat on the ground, stretched out upon Mother Earth, with the certain conviction that you are one with her and she with you. You are as firmly established, as invulnerable as she, indeed a thousand times firmer and more invulnerable. As surely as she will engulf you tomorrow, so surely will she bring you forth anew to new striving and suffering. And not merely ‘some day’: now, today, every day she is bringing you forth, not once but thousands upon thousands of times, just as every day she engulfs you a thousand times over. For eternally and always there is only now, one and the same now; the present is the only thing that has no end." -Erwin Schrödinger