#we said Elain isn't going to be in hofas AT ALL

[nikethestatue]

man watching yaz go thru all of sjms bibliography and try to use it for gwynriel is ridiculous. "sjm is obviously setting up azriel as the next mc and his plot is going to be illyria." highlights random sentences that can mean nothing or anything at all and say oh cant wait til we read this in the next book. and ofc any change she can make it about gwynriel. like i agree azriel is being set up to be the next mc, theres a reason he was in hofas and not cassian. its so HE could hear the cauldron was corrutped. i do wonder how her instagram cult will fall apart once elriel comes out.

What, new deep and profound Gwynriel foreshadowing and breadcrumbs in books that have been published for years? Totally makes sense.

Azriel is not Chaol. His story isn't separate from the Archerons and the IC. The ACOTAR series is about the IC and the sisters, It's not about random characters, and random storylines.

We all know that all of these storylines are connected--Illyria and Enalius are both connected to Theia and Fionn who are connected to the Asteri who are connected to Dusk Court which is connected to the Night Court which is connected to Rhysand and Feyre who is connected to Nesta and Elain both of whom were made by the Cauldron.......Phew.

Azriel isn't going to go to Illyria with Gwyn to figure things out. All of these stories are organic and flow into each other. Yes, Azriel is set up for a bigger story--that was obvious almost since the beginning, because there are so many unknowns about him. But you don't get an Archeon sister set aside, especially after she said 'find me when you wish to begin' and 'let me dust off my powers' for the sake of a crackship romance between Nesta's friend and Azriel.

Just be for real.

[romanticatheartt]

I mean at this point, it's inevitable even for me who has filtered, unfollowed and is staying away from the dramas that's happening in this fandom, to not know what's going on even if it's vaguely.

But I noticed one thing from this whole situation. And that's how every week ever since acosf there's a new theory from that side of the fandom...

Even tho I wasn't here since 2021 I've seen people's theories from then and what's clear to me is Gwynriel's and Elucien's theories never changes. They're solid, they're based on the text and they don't need to make thing up.

All I'm saying is even their prediction for hofas mostly came true... And that's all I have to say :)

[violetasteracademic]

I think, possibly, half of the fandom have either began to blend the bat boys together, or are getting them mixed up.

Azriel never said he wanted a mate. Absolutely never. Not in any context, any language, or any interpretation. He only said he wants Elain (a female who already has a mate) and is confused that she isn't his mate because of how he feels about her, not just because he wants a mating bond with her. Which is impossible as far as he knows.

There is no way he actually thinks he can create a mating bond with Elain out of thin air. He just knows Elain isn't interested in Lucien, while Azriel and Elain have developed deep feelings for each other, thus: What if the Cauldron was wrong. Do we actually believe Azriel thinks he can magically form a mating bond, or get rid of Elain and Lucien's mating bond? Where in the text does it suggest that? Now, I for one hope they manage to do this 🤣 but Azriel certainly isn't saying he thinks it is possible. He just thinks he could beat Lucien's ass in a blood duel *if* Lucien called for one (which is doubtful.)

If he had the same feelings about Gwyn, and she also had a mate already, then he would be questioning the Cauldron for her instead. He's not out here saying: I want Elain and I want her to be my mate. In fact, he most certainly thinks that is impossible. What he is saying is: I want Elain and she wants me and it feels wrong that she was "assigned" to someone else. How is that not a fair and valid thought to have? And now that he knows the Cauldron has been corrupted, how could he possibly *not* continue with that line of thought? His thoughts and feelings were validated, and now he is just going to... walk away?

Cassian, however, literally wants a mating bond and was jealous that Rhys and Feyre had one and he didn't:

Cassian was the one who explicitly stated his jealousy over the mating bond, how Feyre and Rhys showed that the tales of the "glory and wonder" of the mating bond are real.

Cassian wants a legendary mating bond. He saw Rhys and Feyre prove the mythicality of it right, and now he has wants it for himself even if he never has before.

Azriel just wants Elain.

Azriel also never said he wanted kids. It is so bizarre to invent a storyline where Azriel would change his mind about the woman he wants because she may have some risk during the pregnancy, which is already so debunkable in a million ways. Yes, Nesta changed her own pelvis but now she isn't sure she even wants kids as of HoFaS. And let's not forget what happened to Feyre was explicitly because she was in Illyrian form during conception. Rhys was *not* afraid to get her pregnant in her Fae form because the risk is way lower.

Azriel is also now 99% if not 100% confirmed to be Starborn, which would make him not fully Illyrian. This is also backed up by his ability to winnow and do other things Illyrian's cannot. At least one of the Made sisters possessed the power to change a pelvis when they wanted to. So how is this still a thing? The fact that people think Sarah would ever even write an "Elain doesn't get chosen because Azriel wants a female who can have his babies" is so offensive and unhinged I hate that I'm even talking about it, but most importantly it is inaccurate to the text. Again, the most important actually relevant piece of information is the fact that Cassian is the one who said he wants kids, not Azriel:

Azriel is asked if he wants children and he says what he wants doesn't matter (then Cassian notices how Azriel has moved on from Morrigan and he doesn't really get why. We all know it is because of Elain, regardless of whether or not you think they are endgame.) Cassian was asked if he wanted children, and he said of course he does.

All lines explicitly stating a desire for a mating bond or children are assigned to Cassian. So why is the fandom thinking they are Azriel's?

Azriel and Cassian are completely different characters, with completely different wants and goals. Cassian's goals, in his own words from his own POV: mate and babies. Azriel's goal, in his own words from his own POV: Elain.

[lurkinggirlie]

Azriel's mother

A theory about Azriel's mother. aka I'm reaching (not sure if there are similar posts, but do let me know if there are ! I'd love to read them)

Disclaimer: this isn't a ship related post, but both Gwyn and Elain would be mentioned for different reasons. This isn't a Freud wet fantasy post so let's not go there. (Spoilers for the whole series and HOFAS bonus)

For someone we’ve never met, I have a lot of thoughts about Azriel’s mother as a character. We don’t know much about her but here are my best guesses from what we’ve glimpsed.

We first learn of Azriel’s mother straight after we meet him, we know his mom was probably assaulted by an Illyrian lord who was married to an evil female and had two older children.  (not sure if it was mentioned but she was probably really young and worked for Azriel's father)

What we know from ACOMAF:

Rhys’ mom knew Az’s mother which is why she took him in.

Azriel stayed in his father’s keep for 11 years, and was allowed to see his mother for an hour once a week. 

I’m not sure if there are any other mentions of her, but these are the instances I found.

*************************

Then later on in ACOFAS we get a little hint that she’s still alive: 

“When do you head out for Rosehall?”

“The morning after Solstice,” he supplied, turning toward the glittering sprawl of Velaris. He winced—slightly. “I still need to do some shopping before I go.”

I offered my brother a crooked smile. “Buy her something from me, will you? And put it on my account this time.”

I knew Az wouldn’t, but he nodded all the same.”

It's not mentioned who “her” is neither where Rosehall is, but we could guess it’s someone he needs to buy a gift for. “Put it on my account this time” shows us that this isn’t the first time Rhys had asked Azriel to buy her something from him, but why is it that she isn’t invited over? Or why isn’t Rhys offering to visit her? I’ll talk about this later.

We get another mention of his mother in ACOFAS when he stops everyone from eating until Elain is seated.

*********************

ACOSF just confirms the suspicious about her being alive through Cassian’s POV

“His mother had needed a place like this. But Rhys had established it long after she’d left this world. He wondered if Azriel’s mother had ever considered coming here, or if he’d ever pushed her to” 

So, we know that Azriel's mother is still suffering from all the things she’s been through if she needs a safe haven like the library. 

Which brings me back to the point of “why isn’t she around the IC at all” 

Finally HOFAS’s bonus chapter (the Azriel/Bryce and Nesta chapter) 

Bryce jerked her chin toward Azriel. "You've got the broody look of someone with an awful mother, too. Care to share?"

Nesta snorted. "Az never talks about his mother, and neither will our friends, so I’m guessing she's even worse."

The Illyrian snarled softly, "My mother is anything but awful."

Nesta tensed, like she was surprised she'd gotten such a response from him. "I was joking. Az, I didn't even know-"

"I don't want to discuss this," Azriel cut her off coldly.

Azriel's mother is a sensitive topic confirmed. No one talks about his mom, he doesn't talk about his mom. Granted, Bryce is a stranger so of course he isn’t about to overshare but still makes me wonder. Especially since Nesta said that neither Azriel or their friends bring her up.

Now here are all my thoughts in regards to the things we have mentioned.

Reason 1 of why Azriel is keeping his mother away:

Perhaps Azriel is keeping his mother away from the IC, or more specifically his work environment because he doesn’t want her to see him this way, as in his job and the things he has to do, especially since in his bonus he mentions this:

He avoided the urge to cross his arms, not wanting to look intimidating. He blocked out the memory that flashed of his mother cringing before his father, the male standing with crossed arms in such a way that made his displeasure known before he opened his hateful mouth.

He was in the library in this scene, talking to Clotho when he was giving the necklace to her.

I'm not saying that Azriel is like his father, but a big part of his job or overall persona is to look and be intimidating. And that could make his mother feel uneasy around him. Maybe Rosehall (wherever that is or whatever it is) is the safe space he has to see his mother; where he doesn't need to be the intimidating Spy/torturer/Shadowsinger.

And maybe the reason he gravitated towards the library, or found himself there not because of some magic singing abilities but because he subconsciously, or consciously thinks that his mother would fit there. Maybe she does end up going there in the next book.

We have seen how Gwyn have suffered, and how Azriel seemed so proud to see her regain her confidence/strength. but then we saw how the rite had triggered her again to go back to the library. So Perhaps Azriel's mother mental state is even more fragile which gets me to my second point:

Reason 2 of why Azriel is keeping his mother away:

Maybe his mother is not sane.

Hear me out, what if what had happened to his mother broke her in a way where being around people just triggers her. And Azriel just doesn't want anyone to see her this way because it breaks his heart.

Reason 3 of why Azriel is keeping his mother away:

I think there could be a possibility that his mother is a Seer but wasn't able to manage her powers properly maybe that on top of everything has driven her mad (or if we aren't going down that she isn't sane theory maybe he just doesn't want anyone using her. Maybe she blurts out her visions and we know that Seers are probably precious so of course someone would want to use that power and he simply doesn't want to put his mom through that). Remember in ACOWAR how he figured out that Elain was a seer? that he was the only one who listened and how he had looked at her and then disappeared. What if he had gone to where his mom is, to talk to her about this, to confirm. Maybe she helps Elain manage her visions

That is all, has anyone thought of Azriel's mother before? What are everyone's thoughts on this?

[dippedinmelancholy]

After the explanation given in HOFAS . . . I am earnestly baffled as to why there was no time skip for ACOSF. The entire justification for locking Nesta up in the House of Wind was because it was for her own good. That she was spiraling, wasting an ungodly amount of money, and generally being an embarrassment for Feyre, but mostly Rhysand. Before I read HOFAS, I thought maybe SJM's three series took place in different places of the same world, especially since there are so many repeating themes, gods, mates, and symbolism. This made for some weak level of justification for me, personally, in regards to ACOSF. If they were the same world, just different places, obviously she couldn't write a timeskip without damaging a larger canon. Yet, HOFAS blows that out of the water. They are LITERALLY different worlds. Planets. Happening at the same time. Fine, great, amazing. Yet this makes the timeline of ACOSF so much more insane. It has been literal months since the defeat of Hybern. Nesta is deemed unfit to care for herself and too much of an embarrassment after MONTHS. Why???? Because she doesn't jump directly to one of the stupid jobs Rhysand "offers" her? Because she isn't instantly fucking Cassian? Because she's hurt and traumatized and utterly fucking alone, and still after everything she did to try and help, to be a better support to her baby sister, despite her entire life being turned upside down and ripped from her, the entire IC hates her? Months. She hasn't magically become whole in a matter of months, so the only solution was to drag her to a place everyone knew she could not escape, with a man she has said again and again she doesn't want to be alone with, to pursue a training she has never ever ever wanted? And no, I do not give a single crumb of a fuck that everyone knew they were "mates", because if being a mate doesn't give Lucien a claim over Elain, it sure as shit doesn't give Cassian a claim over Nesta, consent should fucking matter. Given fae in ACOTAR live for. hundreds, if not thousands, of years (seriously what the fuck??? What is their natural lifespan if not murdered?????) and the three series, though they overlap, take place on completely different planets, why was there not a timeskip? A small portion of text would have made all of this make more sense. The desperation to "help" Nesta that all of the Feysand fans seem to scream about would have made so much more sense if they had been shown to be reaching out to her over a span of years, rather than fucking months. That desperation would have made Feyre LOCKING HER SISTER UP WITH A MAN at least make some kind of sense???? It's just fucking wild to me how the IC, and Feyre specifically, went from 0 to 100 in reaction and levels of "how can we help Nesta with her war trauma?" and jumped straight to LETS KNOCK DOWN HER HOME AND LOCK HER AWAY UNTIL WE THINK IT'S OK TO LET HER OUT. WE KNOW BEST. As someone who experiences bouts of depression, going through cycles for weeks or months where almost nothing brings joy and I'm just trying to make it through the days, this all just seems absolutely wild to me.

[acourtofthought]

Hey, what do u think about fans saying Sarah is giving Lucien personality traits to Azriel? I do notice that he went from “misterious” (*cough*boring*cough*) to actually showing some personality, which is interesting…

It feels like SJM isn't completely sold on what she wants to do with Az because his character isn't cohesive as of late.

We went from Cassian saying that even he and Rhys can't get Az to open up after centuries yet suddenly he's casually chatting with Nesta and Bryce in HOFAS even though they literally do not trust Bryce and he's only been real friends with Nesta for a few months. He had moments of still being aloof but he was more open around Bryce and Nesta than anyone and that's odd since we don't even see that between he and Cassian in SF.

Where Az, instead of snarking back at Eris for what he said of Mor, exploded into a rage. Where he barely said two words to Koschei and looked genuinely scared yet suddenly he's cocky and sassing to Vesperus after she had been released from her coffin and he had learned she made his kind.

Where he stopped Gwyn from asking him to demonstrate whether he could sing because he didn't feel like it yet was humming in front of Bryce.

Where Az literally has never shown physically affectionate behavior towards anyone throughout the series yet he's stroking Nesta's hair and thanking the mother.

It's not necessarily that she's stealing Lucien's characteristics or other characters who are similar to Lucien from other series so much as it seems she's suddenly recycling them for Az to show how he's being developed to become a MMC but it feels off for him? Az is canonically cold and aloof, where he only brings out his gentle side for those he deems kind of weak (like he does with Elain), who you have to pull teeth to get anything out of and who doesn't say much so it is just a bit odd to have scenes that look suspiciously similar to the Lucien scenes that came before when it does at this point seem out of character for how he's previously been written.

If this is the direction she wants to take Az than that is her perogative but it's a little tricky to hop on board when it is so drastically different from the Az that came before, especially the Az in SF and his bonus. It's the "I'm going to tell you rather than show you" tactic and that's a bit more difficult for some to get behind because we didn't see the evidence of why he's suddenly become someone different than what he was previously portrayed as. Saying his growth happened off page feels too easy a cop out.

It would be like Elain suddenly becoming a bloodthirsty warrior in the next book. SJM can do that with Elain's character if she wants, right? After all, Elain is her creation and maybe that's the final arc for Elain she's been building to when she added the line in the bonus about gardening resulting in something pretty but getting one's hands dirty along the way. But I think it would still ring false to certain readers because of everything that came before it and I don't think they'd be so easily swayed to have people telling them "well this is clearly what SJM wanted to do with her so you just need to accept it". An author can write whatever they want in their books but that doesn't mean every reader is going to buy into what feels like a new direction for a character "just because".

[starsreminisce]

do you think the mask will be significant in future acotar books? will it be more for a crossover kinda thing?

Short Answer:

The mask is why I have a strong inclination that the next book will be Elain's POV. However, I think by the end of the third ACOTAR book, the dread trove items will either be cleansed or destroyed.

@glossamerfaerie posted this theory about how the next two book covers would feature the dread trove items, and it got me thinking about how each item's powers correlate to each FMC's powers and their essence. The mask, which controls the dead, is linked to Nesta's death powers and her ability to Make and Unmake. Nesta also masks her emotions from the get-go. The harp is a musical instrument, perfect for a musically inclined priestess who has found Merrill's study on the 26 worlds fascinating. The mind-controlling crown is ideal for Elain, who can convince anyone with her pretty smile and honestly, leads me to believe in a HK/HQ path for Elain and Lucien.

From this, I think that the next books will tackle each of the dread trove items, but their fate isn't clear, and quite frankly, SJM can tell us how she intends to weave them into the plot.

Long Answer:

I previously mentioned that something needed to be established in HOFAS to provide context for the coming books, and like others, I thought it was Truth-Teller. While we received the lore of TT, it didn't receive as much attention in the book compared to the dread trove items, particularly the mask.

In ACOSF, the mask received the most attention in how it affected Nesta as opposed to the other items. She had more time to reflect on it compared to the other two. We were also told that Helion had a strong reaction to it (Lucien's connection), and Azriel said Elain shouldn't be exposed to its darkness.

When we left ACOSF, Nesta was able to remove the mask with ease, but Elain and Nesta's fight was sort of swept to the sideline. Nesta was able to work out her issues with Feyre towards the end of the book.

When we got to HOFAS, Nesta was not able to remove the mask without Azriel listing off people she cared about, and her power flared at the mention of her sisters. Later on, after Nesta gave up the mask, it was a decision only supported by Feyre. So, my guess is that her power flared at Elain's name. Nesta enjoyed wearing the mask because it gave her a separation from her feelings where she isn't in her head all the time. The thing with healing journeys is that they aren't perfect, and someone can slip up every now and again. Cassian is testament to this. So Elain's name triggered something strong for Nesta, but when she was told Nyx's name, that's when she was able to remove it.

While we were told the lore of TT, we were also told more about the Dread Trove items even when Rigelus saw Bryce wield the mask and truth-teller. Rigelus cared more about the mask than he did TT.

So, there is this unexplained gap - why was Nesta able to remove the mask with ease for her not able to do so, and what is happening in Prythian that caused even Cassian to be the most disappointed with her when he had supported most of her decisions throughout ACOSF?

Are Elain and Nesta rehashing the fight they had regarding the dread trove?

I believe the next book will explore this gap, and it'll start either right after or during the ceremony of Nessian. It could also be a bridge between the two series to explain their perspective of Bryce coming to their world. Lucien and Elain are removed enough so that ACOTAR-only readers would be able to follow along as I feel retelling the tunnel part through Az would be redundant for the maasverse readers.

Ember's parting words to Nesta were not to worry, and she would find her way. Nesta had taken pride in being Elain's protector, and what would become of Nesta if Elain were to be with Lucien, who is primed to leave as he is the heir to Day, and his mother's line is strong enough that he could be contested for Autumn?

There's also a three-to-four-month gap between the blood rite and Bryce coming to Prythian, which actually follows a pattern seen in SJM's handling of mating bonds, from acknowledgment to acceptance. Feyre left the Spring Court mid-February to accept the bond in May. The bond snapped in December for Nesta to accept it in March.

Would Elain and Lucien follow this pattern? Perhaps they'll finally acknowledge each other during the ceremony, with Elain accepting it during the Summer Solstice, a celebration Lucien mentioned that the fae hold for being fae and completing her journey of self-acceptance.

So yes, to me, the mask is going to be important in the next ACOTAR book and be a point of contention for Elain and Nesta. I think Elain is going to focus more on mastering the crown while Nesta grapples with the mask.

I still don't know what its role would be for a crossover. It could very well be magical girl weapons for them, or it could be destroyed.

Now, of course, we are at the mercy of SJM's whims, and she could very well decide that Gwynriel is the best couple to bridge ACOTAR and HOFAS after Bryce gave Nesta the items, but I am having trouble reconciling why Nesta is struggling to remove the mask and how SJM would handle rehashing a similar plot, given her penchant for info dumping.

[bookofmirth]

Potential spoilers for the Azriel, Nesta and Bryce HOFAS bonus chapter ahead.

Omg. I found it so funny when Bryce asked Azriel if he has a mate and he said no, flatly.

And even after that she proceeded to ask him if had a partner or spouse and he said no again to both , You could just tell how annoyed he was about it 😂😂

It’s also quite telling and funny that SJM so obviously did that on purpose,

If I am not reaching, it just shows us that nothing is going on at all, currently in velaris in the Elain and Azriel department like it’s cobwebs there.

Nothing is going on with Az anywhere. It's crickets and tumbleweed.

Sorry I really used your ask as an excuse to rant for a minute here.

The thing is, we all know he does, in fact, have a mate. We may disagree on who it will be, but this is sjm, we all recognize how much she loves mating bonds, despite certain people getting their panties in a twist over who Elain is mated to. But either way, we all know that Azriel is going to end this series with a mate. Obviously, he will.

The issue is that right now, he thinks he doesn't have one. He has spent time wondering if Elain was his, and... months later, has come to the realization that she isn't. He already had her in mind, so the idea that he's in denial about it or something is nonsensical.

And no, he wasn't trying to protect her. Nesta didn't try to hide her mating bond with Cassian, which she could have done by masking their scents (we've seen them do it before). When Bryce asked if Nesta had a mate, she didn't deny it. What the fuck would Bryce want with Elain anyway??? She knows that Nesta has a mate and does nothing with that knowledge. She may know that Rhys and Feyre are mates too, but I am trying to finish this book so I'm too lazy to search haha

Now, we've seen sjm talk about how characters come onto the scene and surprise her and the other characters. We have it with Elain surprising Lucien, Hunt surprising Bryce, Cassian surprising Nesta. Things just click when sjm puts these characters in a room together. So if it were going to click with Elain and A*riel, it would have already. Especially since he actively spent time thinking about it. They've spent time around one another regularly for... two years? They got close but had a failure to launch, and now they haven't fought for each other or interacted (that we know of) for 6-7 months? Az would know if he was mated to Elain, since he was actively wondering about it. You know, kinda like he was wondering the same thing about Mor.

[freyjas-musings]

I feel like Nesta is setting up the next story. I feel like the focus is still on her but it’s shifting to Azriel and that’s why sjm keeps connecting them. First with the acosf bonus chapter then with hofas . It’s like Nesta is passing on the torch to him by connecting his story to hers. I know people think Nesta might get another pov but I don’t think so, unless it’s a bonus chapter, I think she’s just setting the stage for the next book -Gwynriel if it is Azriel’s- and sjm is using her as a supporting role. I know a lot of people were unhappy with Nessian, but sarah told their story…the next couple of books focus on different couples.

Hello Anon,

I agree with everything you have said , I love that the bonus from HOFAS had the previous MC, present MC and Future MC in focus with Nesta, Bryce and Az.

I can't wait for the announcement so I can first say .... I told you so about the whole " Its about the archeron sisters " nonsense.It being Azriels book will automatically dismiss that agenda.

SJM hasn't ever said that it was about the sisters , the original Triologyis about Feysand and the spin offs about "other" characters .

All sjm said was she had more stories to tell , of all the side characters which would include Nesta and Elain .... But also Mor and Az .... this I have on a reel. I would like someone to show me proof of her ever saying the series follows the "sisters"

As far as NESTA , I do think we have enough proof her story isn't over. She will be involved with the trove , made weapons including Gwydion . Her presence will be akin to Feyre's in ACOSF. I also think we will know exactly what Nesta plans to do with the Valkyries.

All in all the next book is going to be very exciting between Illyrians, made weapons and Autumn with Beron making a deal with Koschei. Again, Koschei won't be defeated next book . Beron is the one who is going to meet his end . Beron is the Briallyn of the next book. I am excited to learn about Azriels past , his journey of growth and healing and him finding love with his mate ❤️ .

[lady-embers]

“Illyrian plot line WILL NEED TO BE DEALT WITH BEFORE GOING INTO WAR. You don't want a BIG PART of your army revolting during said war. You want an army you can count on before it comes to pass. Rhysand will NEED them ALL in the war for the Night Court.”

 💯!! there would be no forgiving the Illyrian army if they left the NC high and dry. then there would be no healing arc for azriel including them. and the Illyrian’s are a HUGE part of azriel’s story. especially after what we learned in hofas. didn’t sarah say cc3 sets up the future acotar books?

and…aren’t the prisoners still in the prison?? it would be kind of…inhumane to leave it that way, no matter what they turned into 😭 i hope sarah realises that.

it’s clear nesta’s story isn’t over. that’s clear by the end of hofas and i think her story continues on with the valkyrie’s and gwynriel , not elain. i think when elain’s story comes, it would do her better if her sisters weren’t so involved. we won’t see the real elain until she’s on her own.

I believe Sarah said CC3 will help set up future ACOTAR books, and that's evidenced by what we learned in CC3 about the Illyrians themselves. Azriel has been tied to the Illyrian plot line more through CC3 and his healing is also tied to them and dealing with them.

As for Nesta, we'll definitely be seeing more of her given she's a Valkyrie and is tied to Gwyn/Azriel more than Elain now.

Elain... I do think needs to venture away from her sisters and the Night Court to grow. Like you said, it would be better for her if her sisters weren't so involved and we will see more of the real Elain blossom as she ventures on her own to become her own person and find her own found family. She's always been different and has a different strength than her sisters. Her story isn't going to end with her continuing to live in the Night Court and end up with another bat boy. She has a different path to take.

[romanticatheartt]

Rereading ACOTAR

Note: Before I start, this is not an anti post (well... maybe for Tam/in... definitely for him!) and if you think talking about the literal canon and call these unreal characters out on their flaws means that I hate these characters (which I do but that's my personal beef with Tamtam), then idk what to tell you lol

So 3 months ago after I read hofas I decided to reread acotar for the first time because I miss Feyre (and Rhysand... and the whole IC) like crazy. And I thought it be a good idea to read the original trilogy but since I'm a very mood reader I only read the first book lol. I had this post on my draft for 3 months now and I think I was scared to share them but now I don't really care.

I normally don't do rereads at all, my mind gets bored (I read my favorite scenes but never the whole book) so I decided to try something else and listen to the audiobook instead. And now I have thoughts!

This became longer than I intended but also I'm not going to add anything crazy that someone hadn't already pointed out so I'm just sharing some of my random notes (50 to be exact... it's long post) and thoughts of mine while reading this time around :)

This is definitely NOT a friendly-Tam/in post. If stating fact is considered as not friendly that is...

anyway ->

1. We have 2 chapter of the sisters in the beginning of the book and jeez both Nesta and Elain are the worst and as older sisters it pained me to read it for the first time. 2. I don't understand Elain, so I rather not talk about her and wait till her book comes out but she acts as a damsel in distress or be ignorant to the point Feyre questioning if she understand they're poor 💀 3. Although I have to admit, knowing Nesta now it was easier to go through it this time and not curse her in every page lol. But while reading the book I noticed that every time Feyre is thinking negatively of herself the voice in her head is the voice of Nesta. or whenever she wants to scolds herself, she call herself the names Nesta had called her. and it breaks my heart:

"and the part of me that spoke with Nesta’s voice had laughed at the idea of an ignorant human trying to admire faerie art."

"A half-wild beast, Nesta had called me." (2 times)

"Illiterate, ignorant, unremarkable, proud, cold—all spoken from Nesta’s mouth, all echoing in my head with her sneering voice."

4. Later on we see her actually coming after Feyre to saves her but this doesn't changes the fact that she verbally abused Feyre (and she acknowledge it!! trauma or not she abused Feyre to the point it left a mark on her so please don't turn her into a saint after one act of kindness lol) 5. There isn't much to say about papa Archeron except that he wasn't a great father. I understand depression have different effects on different people, but trauma is no excuse for how he was as a father (I genuinely believe a true parent would do anything for their children but some people are not cut out to be one and it's alright. but once you bring them into this world you have to guarantee that you can provide for them because they didn't choose to be in this life) 6. I know for a fact that if Feyre hadn't promised her mother to protect her family and didn't have a purpose to live her life, she would've been worse than Nesta. Because when she was in Spring Court, for at least 5 times she was guilt-ridden, thinking her family doesn't care about her at all (specially Nesta) or thinking about her shortcomings… (and like I said Nesta had a big role in these kind of thinking) 7. The first Feysand foreshadow was her painting night sky on her drawer<3 8. Lucien and Tam/in (specially Lucien) were so dramatic on their hate toward Feyre? she triggered a 48 years curse. It was always suppose to be this way. Andres knew what he was doing and accepted the fact that he might die. yes you can grieve but It's not really her fault now is it?

9. “You go somewhere new—and you make a name for yourself.”

^: well she definitely did that… 10. One of the things I noticed is that Tam/in was never NEVER Lucien's friend. he was Lucien's High Lord first then his friend and it's obvious from their very first scenes.

11. “We’re not going to bite.” Lucien’s white teeth gleamed in a way that suggested otherwise.

^: him and Cassian will get along well... 12. Feyre hates hunting... she says that to both Lucien and Tam/in. she does that out of necessity, if it's provoked. and not for the first time I realized Feyre is a mix of both Nesta and Elain. 13. Did we all got the vibe that Timtam was mad at Lucien spending time with Feyre because he knew he didn't have a chance once Lucien opens his mouth? 14. Feyre had real fear for Tam/in. in so many occasion we have her being genuinely scared of him. he even said it himself:

"But I could smell the fear on you, more than anything."

And in acomaf we have Rhysand saying he never felt fear of him from Feyre. and when they were UTM Feyre question herself that why she was always so quiet and submissive (not excatly the word she uses) toward Tam/in but with Rhysand she doesn't have that instinct. 15. This ship is the definition of Someone who doesn't know how to love x Someone who has never been loved and that's never a good pairing in any world. it takes one to be in a relationship with someone like Tam/in to understand that... 16. She always felt little, weak, stupid and so very human with Tam/in and Lucien and they never hide their feeling on the matter. 17. Feyre is such baddie istg... she killed a faerie, then went for a stroll and captured a suriel, THEN killed 2 nagas and a fkn wyrm while being a human... GURL- 18. Okay apparently every one says mature age in acotar world was retcon but Alis was talking about lesser fae not high fae? or specially their kind? idk I read that scene and all she was talking about was their kind and not high fae. 19. Timtam was never in control of his power... his power and anger had him on a leash not the other way around. 20. Feyre is always honry (LMAO)... but the sad part is Tam/in never matched her passion. he was always afraid that he's going to hurt her with his claws and bla bla bla BUT MY GIRL wanted him to claw at her💀 savage lol. all I'm saying is that he never gave all of himself to Feyre. 21. It always piss me off that Tam/in never taught her how to write and read. (and ig we all know why) 22. In chapter 19 we have Feyre asking if Fae can be mated to humans and in the next chapter we have Calamnai and something in her chest was pulling her to go and see and next thing we know she met Rhysand (aka her mate)

23. "There you are. I've been looking for you,"

^: PEOPLE DIED! 24. Imagine reading Feyre saying before her was the most beautiful man she has ever seen and not to think that it's fkn over for Tam/in lmao (point to this post of mine) It's also hilarious when she saw Tam/in after his mask was removed, she was like "handsome👍🏼" 25. Rhysand is such Theater kid istg (specially after hofas, the way he was just showing off)... he's like let me show her some tricks *walk around her and stars ripple from him* *blinking to show off the stars in his eye* *PURR* OK PEACOCK! 26. May I ask why on earth we never had a sex party like Calamnai in Night Court? I'm actually so mad because we lost the greatest opportunity WTF? Feyre was so hot and bothered about it and the reason they told her to stay at the manor was because Tam/in knew he will choose her and Feyre was like "oMg hE wOuLd chOoHe mE?" *tuck her hair behind her ear* girl- IT WOULD'VE FIT FEYSAND SO FKN WELL... maybe not on acomaf (even if it could be so healing) or acowar... BUT ACOFAS WAS RIGHT THERE!!! 27. One of the things I hate about the events after Calamnai is Lucien and Tam/in laughing at Feyre... ok... you weren't yourself, but the least you could do was to apologize for hurting and scaring her. it give off the vibe when people say "why was she out so late at night? what was she wearing?" it genuinely made me uncomfortable like the first time. 27. Something I noticed when I read the book for the first and I went 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩:

“No, I don’t want you to live somewhere else. I want you here, where I can look after you—where I can come home and know you’re here, painting and safe.”

"But his glamour had been ripped away. His auburn hair burned like hot metal, and his russet eye smoldered like a bottomless forge."

Damn I was right... 28. Tam/in always kept the truth from her, even the truth that wasn't a part of the curse :) 29. When Feyre drank that faerie wine she saw through Lucien's glamour... does he always have that glamour?:

interesting... 30. Tam/in is fkn coward! in more than 2 occasions Feyre was like why he's not attacking Rhys? why he's not kicking him out? and mf never once tried to stop Rhysand. NOT ONCE. yknow... sometimes in romance novels when you see your loved one in danger you don't care if he's the most powerful being in the world you just act and try to save the ones you love even if you don't win (and we know someone does exactly that at the end of the book)... it's effort that matters!!! and this doesn't stop here either it's even worse at UTM... 31. it's funny that Feyre is "in love" with Tam/in but doesn't stop to appreciate the beauty (Rhysand), even if he's in his villain era and making the love of her life beg on his knee and breaching her own mind... 32. Why Rhysand never called Feyre "love" anymore? the first time I read it I had put away my phone and take a deep breath lol. just like that "good girl" he called her at UTM... sjm knew I would've died if she used it more. 33. Never say never... Lucien:

“Those clothes are enough to convince me I never want to enter the human realm.”

The Mother humbled him real quick lmao. 34. ELAIN IS NOT AN INTROVERT FFS I'm so tried at everyone calling Elain an introvert while she's a social butterfly and we see that in this book!! and it pains me to see Elain stans are like "I'm a introvert myself so I understand Elain..." no you don't. she's traumatized, she's at her lowest in acosf. just because, like Nesta, she doesn't throw tantrums and drown herself in alcohol and sex means she's fine? you should be more worried for the person who looks fine!! 35. I adored the scene where Feyre teaches Nesta how to paint🥹 it just warms my heart<3 and now that Feyre has a art studio I want to see them paint together again or read Nesta's smutty books together at HoW!! (I read a fanfic that Nesta teaches Feyre how to read with a stick on the snow pre-canon and it just warmed my heart<3 don't get me wrong I love how Rhys taught her lol but there's something else in sisterhood...)

36. “There is a better world, Nesta. There is a better world out there, waiting for you to find it. And if I ever get the chance, if things are ever better, safer … I will find you again.”

^: Stop...😭

37. “Amarantha is High Queen of this land. The High Queen of Prythian,” Alis breathed, her eyes wide with some memory of horror.

^: That's why the whole high king and high queen will never work. people will never accept one even if they're a just person. they had the worst experience for 49 years. they can never trust a person to rule for all like that again. and honestly I hate the whole thing bye... 38. To me Amarantha and Tam/in are mates... for obvious reasons and it's fitting! idc what anyone else says 39. The whole chapter where she kills that wyrm is so hot!! and the fact that she's human and she's so calculated and plans in the span of few minutes to kill it and doesn't just attack and uses her brain instead is so hot!! I understand why Rhys fell in love!! *HOFAS spoiler* and it's funny to me how an Illyrian, a Starborn and a Valkyrie with a deadly mask struggled to kill the wyrm 😭💀 40. The only person, THE ONLY ONE who bet on her that she'll survive? who would that be? THE LOVE HER LIFE? no... and that's not something to just move on from! there's only two assumption we can make. one, he never believed in her to begin with, two, he's a fkn coward... which I think it's both. Rhysand was r*ped and tortured for 49 years and he never stopped helping Feyre and believing in her. and knowing Amarantha wouldn't be pleased with betting on Feyre, he still did it... 41. UTM Rhys supremacy... That's it. don't ask me anything... 42. How Feyre remembered the riddle for 2.5 months is beyond me... 43. Feyre appreciating Rhysand's beauty so randomly like... GIRL FOCUS!! 44. When Feyre questions her reason for why she's doing all these, for "just a few decades", should've been the sign... 45. How Tam/in finding a way to get Feyre alone right before the night of her last trial pissed me off the first time I read it… the fact that this was a goodbye to him. That in the past 3 months he didn't try to even react to her but the night before her last trial decided to fuck her instead of helping her to get out… he can find a way now, he can get out of Amarantha sight for more than 5 minutes to fuck her, but he couldn't have done that in the past 2.5 months… yeah sure this is true love. like I said it's the effort that matters not whether you succeeded in it... Tam/in disgusts me for a better word. 46. no note... *sound of my heart breaking*:

“When you healed my arm … You didn’t need to bargain with me. You could have demanded every single week of the year. Every single week, and I would have said yes.”

"And if you had any stomach for cruelty, you’d go to Amarantha and tell her the truth about her whore. Perhaps she’d give you Tamlin for it.”

“I know,”

47. This MF sat there until he got healed while every bone in Feyre's body was breaking and when he somewhat healed he began kneeling and begging?... KNEELING AND BEGGING!! JUST FKN KILL HER! (the way Feyre kept saying that) I don't want to hear one single word about how he was injured, bla bla bla he's a fkn high lord and a warrior I'm sure he experienced worse. the least he could do, was his fkn best to stop Amarantha. and this time around reading it piss me off so bad that I wanted to throw my phone out of the window... but you know who got up even when he didn't have his full powers? to save her, to kill Amarantha, to die with her because he didn't want her to be alone while she died? yeah... The fact that the first time I read it I thought this was the reason Feyre was going to leave him and what did she do?... my girl has no self-respect istg... Love blinds people I suppose... 48. Whenever Tam/in touched Feyre after this whole thing I wanted to throw up... when he cradled her dead body? oh I wanted Rhysand to mist him so fkn bad. he doesn't deserve to touch her, he didn't deserved Feyre's love, not once... 49. In my language we have an expression "whoever does the final task, they are the one who finished the job" obviously in my language it has more rhyme to it lol but it's a silly idiom and a stupid one at that; and When people start thanking Tam/in I was like: FOR WHAT EXACTLY? he just killed Amarantha at the last minute while he watch Feyre getting tortured? he just sat for 2.5 months while Feyre and Rhysand (and Lucien) do the works to free not just him but the whole Prythian... all the while he was in his home and you lot were imprisoned UTM, away from your home... who are you thanking to? (at least they thanked Feyre as well...) 50. Feysand's balcony scene has a special place in my heart:

“Why?”

“Because when the legends get written, I didn’t want to be remembered for standing on the sidelines. I want my future offspring to know that I was there, and that I fought against her at the end, even if I couldn’t do anything useful.”

“Because, I didn’t want you to fight alone. Or die alone.”

“Thank you,”

“You never told me you loved the wings—or the flying.”

“Everything I love has always had a tendency to be taken from me. I tell very few about the wings. Or the flying.”

“Be glad of your human heart, Feyre. Pity those who don’t feel anything at all.”

whew... sorry this is so long! if you read this till the end I LOVE YOU. anyway I might do one for acomaf as well whenever I reread it. and I'm pretty sure Tam/in is going to make me see red even more than the first time!!

And I'm glad I was one of those few who saw the red flags in Tam/in even for the first time...

first time read: ⭐⭐⭐

second time read: ⭐⭐⭐.5

I noticed so many foreshadow in this book! and so many other 🚩that I didn't noticed for the first time! for some reason I can't give this book 4 stars because I tired to go easy on Tam/in but it got worse lmao💀

[violetasteracademic]

Yesterday I came across a Gwynriel comment on a pro-Elriel post that said: “I like Azriel. Which is why I want him to find his mate.”

I’ve always found this Gwynriel/Elucien rhetoric ironic because they’re making it clear they don’t actually like Azriel. Because if they like Azriel, wouldn’t they want him to find LOVE, first and foremost? SJM has mentioned multiple times that a mating bond is not equivalent to romantic love, and yet Gwynriels, especially, only ever argue that they want Azriel to find his mate.

I’ve found that this is the biggest differentiator between Elriels and Gwynriels/Eluciens: Elriels want Az to find happiness. We want him to find LOVE—whether it’s through a mating bond or not. The emphasis is always on LOVE.

To be honest, it took me a really long time to think through this, because I have SO many things to say on the topic! But in the interest of keeping this concise (false when have I ever kept things concise), and addressing this issue head on, we are going to go ahead and say yes, sure, maybe SJM is a "fated mates only" author (even though some of my favorite SJM couples are not mates) and that has no bearing on whether or not Azriel and Elain are still likely to be endgame.

It comes down to active and inactive storylines, as well as facts from the books versus ideas and theories of what could be true.

Throughout her multiverse, Sarah has told the "Fated Mate" story in a variety of ways, and she continues to tackle it in new ways. We have had faked mating bonds, villainous cosmic interference with mating bonds, bonds that were revealed slowly, bonds that snapped quickly, bonds that solidified over oceans before two people even met, two people literally just *deciding* they are mates and making it so, and mating bonds where the pairs were miserable and not well suited, and they lived in misery until they died.

Prythian is the only world in the multiverse where there is even a conversation about the female being able to reject the mating bond. Those are the rules set forth in Prythian. You cannot ignore them. If Elain doesn't want Lucien, she gets to reject him. Them's the rules. This isn't even an *option* or mentioned on the other worlds. Prythian is the only one where, time and time again, we are reminded that there are many unhappily mated pairs. Rhysand's own parents were miserable. So miserable that Cassian thought the mating bond was all lies and bullshit for over 500 years, until Rhys and Feyre, for the first time in his centuries of life, proved him wrong. (ACOFAS, Chapter 2.)

Narratively, Prythian has set up and established a mating bond rejection. No other SJM world has. More than that, Feyre questioned why Lucien and Elain were paired together, and seeing Elain be placed with Lucien even though Feyre thought Elain and Azriel would be a better fit made Feyre realize how lucky she and Rhys were to be mated *and* in love. Directly comparing Elain and Lucien to Feyre and Rhys further proved how special Feysand was.

Then Azriel questions the Cauldron, asking if it could be wrong. (again, the second time this question has been asked in regards to Elain and Lucien specifically.)

Now, in HOFAS, the most up to date publication, that narrative continues as we discover the Asteri pooled their power into the Cauldron to make it serve their will. (HOFAS, Chapter 25) This answered Feyre's question; Who are the powers that decide to force people who don't like each other to be mated and create the most powerful offspring? (the Asteri, because they need to eat their souls for sustenance and gain control of the world) And of course Azriel is the one watching this all unfold and learning this information. Azriel questioning the Cauldron has now been laid out not only in ACOSF, but the last two books Sarah has published. These are the facts that will set up the next book, just as Feysand and Nessian were set up in previous books.

Feyre and Rhys were already tied together in book one. We knew, heading into book two, that Feyre and Rhys had connected. They trusted each other. And while their bargain was not consensual, she chose to go to him when he called through her bond of her own free will, because they had developed a connection. We head into book two knowing exactly where things were headed. She has an interesting/developing relationship with Rhys, and she is guaranteed to see him again. This sets up the "Ordinary World" (I've made a few posts on the hero's journey book structure SJM follows, more on that here) for book two. By the end of ACOTAR, Rhys and Feyre are in an active storyline together that picks up in ACOMAF.

Nesta and Cassian had their entire plot laid out in A Court of Frost and Starlight. Cassian is dealing with Devlon and the struggle to get Illyrian females training. He describes the Blood Rite, and muses on what the one from the upcoming spring will bring. Nesta is in her alcoholic I hate my family era, and Cassian is fighting to get back what occurred between them during the war. The kiss they shared, and the willingness to die together. And they are both fighting like wildfire. By the end of ACOFAS, these are active storylines. Everything discussed about or between them in ACOFAS picks up and comes to pass in ACOSF.

Whether you want them to be together or not, the active storyline in ACOSF and HOFAS is between Elain and Azriel. Questioning the Cauldron, fighting their feelings for each other, and the tension between them escalating was their story in ACOSF. People who argue the bonus chapter ended their story are factually incorrect. Because as of this day, in this year 2024, Azriel's "What if the Cauldron was wrong" storyline CONTINUED in House of Flame and Shadow.

Azriel stood there and learned first hand how the Cauldron had been corrupted and warped by creatures who came to Prythian in search of sustenance, and, as previously mentioned, "pooled their power into the Cauldron so that it would work their will." (HOFAS, Chapter 25) They then "protected their interests" by turning the Cauldron into a killswitch, ensuring it could never be destroyed and that their will could continued to be enacted on Prythian or the world would cease to exist.

So, these are the active storylines when Azriel and Elain wake up in Prythian today (thus setting up the Ordinary World in the three act structure) that expand upon the previous two books:

Elain and Azriel have feeling for each other.

Azriel's feelings for Elain are so strong that he questions the Cauldron, and is willing to fight to the death over it.

Azriel has learned that the Cauldron was completely corrupted and fucked up by an evil species that used to rule over Prythian, and now rules over Midgard, and eats souls by churning them through a "soul meat grinder for food." (HOFAS, Chapter 16)

Azriel has learned that all of the Dread Trove items were created by the Asteri in the Cauldron, the same beings that warped the Cauldron and turned it into a kill switch to ensure power over their world. (HOFAS, Chapter 24) Only the Archeron sisters can wield the Trove, and are protected from it being used against them.

Azriel learned that Truth-Teller and the Starsword were also made in the Cauldron by the Dusk Court ancestors to destroy the Asteri. Currently, only Azriel can wield both Truth-Teller and the Starsword. Elain can also wield Truth-Teller. (Possibly Nesta as well, but Elain used it to travel through shadows while Nesta used it to cut off a head.)

All Cauldron Made items, both for and against the Asteri, are now in possession of the Inner Circle along with the knowledge that they need to discover what they can truly do, and to find the hidden cache's of magic stored in their world.

Elain has stated that she is a member of the Night Court and will do what is needed to serve it.

Elain is reacquainting herself with her powers, and is ready to be used to locate and wield Trove items.

Elain has feelings for Azriel.

Azriel has feelings for Elain.

Here are inactive storylines:

Elain using her sight to deal with Koschei, which is what I understand to be the largest E/ucien theory at play tying Elain to the BoE. Elain has not been involved in the Koschei storyline since ACOWAR, nor does she have an active storyline with Lucien besides shrinking into herself when he is around, not speaking to him, and not liking his presents.

Lucien however, is involved in the Koschei storyline as of ACOSF as it pertains to Vassa. He stares at the sea, as if setting his target on Koschei, (ACOSF, Chapter 7) and is living with Vassa and Jurian. This is what is active for Lucien. Nothing else. Any possible storyline for him outside of this is theory and speculation does not exist yet.

Gwyn does not have an active storyline at the end of ACOSF. "Gwyn, despite the Rite, had returned to living in the library. Gwyn had said she might leave for Nesta and Cassian's mating ceremony in three days." (ACOSF, Chapter 80) Her story as a Valkyrie completing the Blood Rite with Nesta has resolved and she has not presently been tied to anything else. Any ideas on how she might have a plot created are theories and speculations, but she is inactive.

Elain and Azriel are both active regarding the Trove, the Star-Sword and Truth-Teller, their feelings for each other, and Azriel is personally so propelled forward in being the Cauldron's number one hater that if a mating bond were to suddenly snap between him and Gwyn in his current headspace, he would not just forget about Elain and the dark damage done to the Cauldron and would likely not entertain the bond without more information.

If Sarah wants to make Azriel and Elain fated mates, she will. She has done everything under the sun with mates and will do more. She can do whatever she wants with magic. But you have to understand that the next book will start, as Sarah always structures it, with the "ordinary world" picking up where the last books left off. And it left off with Azriel and Elain, the fight against the Cauldron, their feelings for each other, and the reveal that all Trove items as well as the Dusk Court and Starborn heir items are now in the Inner Circle's possession, to be wielded by the sisters and Azriel alone.

And yes, as mentioned by @enigmaticexplorer we want Azriel to find love. He already has found it with Elain. Now it's just a matter of if Sarah chooses to make them mates, or if they say to hell with mates because we chose each other. Either option is great in my book!

[gwyns]

I’m feeling a little snarky tonight. I was reading something a Gwynriel/Elucien posted, and saw an E/riel had reblogged it to share their opinion, so I randomly saw it (I didn’t go actively seeking E/riel content).

An E/riel - “And for the love of god, the "you're the new ribbon Az." line: Tell me you can't discern the difference between platonic and romantic banter without telling me you can't discern the difference between platonic and romantic banter. Every single instance in ACOSF that involves Azriel being around Gwyn for training, for example Gwyn's loud laugh, is quite obviously platonic. Her laughing loud enough to briefly gain the attention of absolutely everyone in the room? Come on now. That is a natural reaction to look over in the direction of a loud noise.”

Same E/riel - “Gwyn to be Azriel's partner and lover and mate? Doubtful. Very doubtful. There's just not enough evidence in the current text to come to that conclusion logically vs what's going on with E/riel together. Why can he smell elucien's bond when no one else can? Why does such a thing physically hurt and sicken him to sense? Why does he agonize so much over Elain to the point where he can hardly take care of himself? Why is he always so instinctively protective over Elain? And yes, I am bringing up the "shadows poised as snakes, ready to strike" against Nesta. Azriel was willing and waiting to scrap it out with Nesta over Elain. Let's be real now.”

I laughed out loud when reading this. They also said that Azriel’s shadows were dancing to Bryce’s music in the HOFAS bonus chapter. It literally says in actually text, that Bryce’s phone had died, and that Azriel’s shadows were dancing to his humming. Azriel smelling Elucien’s bond isn’t a big deal, and it was in his pov, so obviously?? And Amren could smell Feysand’s. When Nesta & Cassian visited the Prison, Lanyths was about to tell them that they’re mates from smelling them.

WE can't discern the difference between platonic and romantic? US??? that's a big claim coming from the same fandom that hinges all their hopes on smelly bread

gwyn being loud isn't the only instance of sjm highlighting az's attention shifting to her though. if that were it, i'd agree with them that it doesn't necessarily mean anything but both az and gwyn are constantly looking or paying attention to one another. sjm continuously shows us this in a nessian book. it's been said many times, if e/riel were endgame, sjm could've easily made these type of interactions happen between them. like hello?? we all expected elain to be in this book more but guess what? she was notably absent and that's for a reason

hey um, do they realize that agonizing over someone to the point they can't take care of themselves isn't a good thing? like... at all? i am actually worried for them if this is what they think relationships are supposed to be like. i mean sure there will be uncomfortable moments and you will worry and struggle at times, i've been there. i've worried to the point where i made myself physically ill but it wasn't over whether or not i'm worthy of him, it was because i was genuinely worried for his safety. big difference. relationships take work, but ultimately your partner will make you feel good about yourself. they'll encourage you (hey that's something that az did for gwyn!), you'll feel at ease around each other (hmm something az was around gwyn, interesting...) and making conversation will be the easiest thing in the world (huh yet another thing that happened around gwyn... weird how that works)

yup! i've only read that bonus chapter once but i remember bryce being upset that her phone died since it was her only connection to home, to hunt, at the time. if his shadows were dancing to the music on her phone, why weren't they doing it the whole time? e/riels really act all high and mighty and like their word on canon is law when they literally can't even read. sjm explicitly tells us things but they're so delusional they actually believe the opposite. it's quite fascinating really

[acourtofthought]

Hi I was wondering if you still think eluciens book is next after hofas?

Even after HOFAS, I still think Elucien's book is next especially because as of HOFAS, Az still does not seem to give credit where credit is due in terms of Elain.

SJM gave Chaol a book but not at the expense of Aelin finding the person with whom she was meant for.

I like Chaol very much but I don't think it can be denied that he was unable to truly embrace Celaena for everything she was. Dorian once said to him that he didn't get to pick the parts of her that he loved and it was true. He struggled with thinking she was assassinating people at the Kings orders though that is what she was hired to do. He struggled once he found out she had magic. He struggled once he found out she was really Aelin.

So imagine if SJM gave Chaol his HEA with Yrene before Aelin fell in love with Rowan? It would send the message that "hey, it's cool you had prejudices and here's your reward in Yrene!"

People in the fandom go gaga over Az. They either moon over his interactions with Elain or over his interactions with Gwyn.

But his attitude towards both Elain and Lucien often gets swept under the rug unless it's being addressed in a post trying to prove why he and Elain aren't endgame. There's a sense of "he doesn't respect Elain and therefore will not end up with her" and then many move right on to how he and Gwyn would be great for one another while completely skipping over the fact that he probably needs to learn a lesson or two before that ever happens.

It would be like SJM giving Tamlin his HEA with someone before Feyre ended up with Rhys. Or Tamlin getting his HEA before Lucien.

I'm not saying Az is exactly like Tamlin but there are similarities there and I think it's odd that we would all probably agree Tamlin should not have gotten his HEA before Feyre or get one before Lucien because of the way he treated them while some believe Az, with the way he acts towards Elain and treats Lucien, should get his HEA before them.

Az's behavior is problematic but many want to turn a blind eye, believing that as long as he is with Gwyn, he'll be a better male.

To me, Az's true growth will not ring as true until he sees that Lucien is in fact good enough for Elain, that she does in fact have interest in him, that Elain and Lucien are in fact just as powerful and capable of Az himself and him feeling happy for them, him being able to acknowledge he was wrong.

Az finding his mate in the next ACOTAR book and him suddenly being gracious as a result is not a lesson learned. "I got my mate so now I can admit you're a good guy Lucien, sorry about that."

It rings insincere. I think that as we just got the first hints of a Gwynriel mating bond introduced in SF, it's not crazy to think that SJM will give their story a little more time to cook while Elucien's mating bond is first dealt with.

Beyond that, I don't think a Gwynriel book at this time moves the plot forward with Koschei, Beron, Tamlin, Vassa, or the peace treaty.

Suddenly drawing the current "villains" into Night Court territory drama with the Illyrians, the Valkyrie or the Prison lands doesn't make a lot of sense to me because then, Elucien's story would be set in the NC.

I think it's clear that the current main issues in their world exist outside the NC borders.

Beron wants Spring lands and the NC needs Springs armies as an ally yet Tamlin isn't getting better.

Koschei wants to free himself of the lake to become master of their world (not just one territory).

The fae in Vallahan want to move into human territory.

Vassa's curse takes her back to Koschei's lake on the continent.

The Valkyries and the Illyrians have nothing to do with these plots. People claim that Koschei is connected to the Illyrians because of the Rite but that was Briallyn's plot for Nesta because she needed to wear Nesta's powers down. "Your power is too strong - throwing you into this primitive spectacle wore you down". It really had nothing to do with the Illyrians themselves.

I also don't believe that SJM is going to heavily tie Merrill and time travel into what's going on across the continent and Spring. I think SJM laid the groundwork for her future series which I imagine will deal with more crossover plots, Merrill as a villain and world walking but the Valkyrie storyline which consists of building up an entire legion of elite female warriors is not something I see happening within the same year that the idea of the Valkyrie being reborn took place. And there's no point in suddenly tying the Valkyrie / Illyrians to Koschei and the peace treaty in a single book when we know Elucien's book will not take place in the NC. It makes no sense for SJM to turn Beron's attention to the NC when Rhys remains the most powerful HL and could easily wipe Beron off the map if he dares to enter NC territory. The reason Beron is looking to Spring is because of it's weakened state.

I once called it a marble run but SJM recently used the airplane taxiing metaphor.

Yes, Gwyn talked of wanting to leave the library but Vassa has been trying to free herself from her curse for much longer.

Yes, Gwyn and Az have both been given mysterious backgrounds but both Lucien and Elain have had unexplored powers and Lucien's still hasn't learned of his real father for a much longer time.

Yes, Gwynriel had the first hints of their mating bond established but Elucien's "will they / won't they?" has been one of the main questions of the ACOTAR series since ACOMAF.

Yes, Gwyn has her own story to tell but Elain is Feyre's sister and she's been waiting to tell her story for much longer. And I do think the underdog deserves her chance to shine when SF continued reminding us that there are still some who feel it's alright to speak for Elain and who don't believe her capable.

This series is not going to end up only being about the Archerons, I imagine SJM will continue on with Mor's story, Gwynriel's story, and more on Nesta's journey outside of Feyre and Rhys.

But to me it doesn't make sense that she would skip over Elain to tell Gwyn and Az's romantic arc first, especially when Az is one of the guilty parties of underestimating Elain.

SJM herself spoke of how her stories revolve around the female's journey and while I admit she also writes books that start off because of a male's journey (Chaol), I think Az getting a book before Elain would completely go against the foundation of what she typically writes. A problematic male character's happiness gained at the expense of a female character's happiness (and an unproblematic male like Lucien) would not be a very Girl Power message.

But of course, that is only my opinion and I have no idea whether SJM sees it that way or not.  

[nikethestatue]

I saw a post recently (and I’m sure this has been around forever so please feel free to disregard) that stated Elain and Azriel have no ties to the overarching plots (i.e Koschei) But Elain and Lucien are connected to that plot - and I agree.

BUT Azriel is connected to the Koschei plot. In ACOSF, Koschei directly addressed Azriel saying “I’ve spent months preparing for you and you don’t wish to speak to me?” This was directed to Azriel.

Since I saw it brought up again recently, I think it’s worth encouraging our side that Azriel is connected to the overarching plot(s) and so is Elain.

Even if it ended up an Elain/Azriel/Lucien/Vassa book(s), all of these characters are relevant. And if the theories prove true that Gwyn might unknowingly be under some kind of influence, she could be important, too.

Could Elain’s book pick up shortly after Solstice and bridge the gap between Nesta saving Feyre and the 6 months until the crossover? With the foreshadowing Elain has moved in to the townhouse, there’s a gap that I think will have to be addressed. Then the second half of the book focusing on what they learned from Bryce (cauldron being corrupted, the dusk court) setting up a final book in which Koschei is the final stand.

And Az’s quick “no” when asked about mate or a partner in the HOFAS bonus is a little suspicious.

I seriously appreciate all of your insight and I’m so grateful to have found a space in the fandom that I enjoy interacting with.

Yes to everything you said.

But also, I think it's extremely premature to say that someone isn't connected/not connected to various plot points. We have SO many possible ways in which the story can go, I think it's ridiculous to assume that there would be only ONE storyline for Elain.

Even the trainwreck that was ACOSF, had Nesta: training, discovering the Valkyries, making friends, dealing with personal issues, Cassian, Braillyn, Beron, and completely out of left field the Troves, and making her own weapons, bargaining with the Cauldron, the Blood Rite, saving Feyre--just off the top of my head.

How many of these plot points did we suspect before ACOSF? Oh, like 2. Cassian and mental health.

SO, to say that the only thing that Elain could possibly deal with is Koschei and that Azriel has nothing to do with it is kind of dumb.

We have Dusk, Ramiel, The Prison, High King/Queen, the Asteri, Daglan, Koschei, Fire Birds, kidnapped girls, faulty mate bonds, the Troves, the Illyrians, and EVERYONE's secret paternities and lineages (and again, this is just off the top of my head). So really, Azriel isn't connected to any of this and he can't be connected to a bunch of these with Elain?

Desperation is the word for it.

[nikethestatue]

Hi, Nike! I am the girl who initiated the “mating bonds only snap into place when both mates are present” argument. Well, I was on the a court of thorns and roses wiki page, and this is what it states, “A mating bond can reveal itself at different times depending on the couple. For some, it snaps into place right when the pair meet ( like Elain and Lucien), but for others it can be years before the bond is discovered.” It then goes on to say that mating bonds have to be accepted.

I think it’s funny that both of those examples on the wiki page can apply to Gwynriel. Azriel and Gwyn met/were in each other’s presence during training and the bonus chapter, yet we didn’t read anything mate like from Azriel. They also met two years ago at sangravah, but there is no mating bond to be found. It was even stated in hofas that Azriel didn’t have a mate. I find that to be funny. We just made the Gwynriels eat their own words again. Also, I think half of this fandom forgets that mating bonds have to be ACCEPTED!! It doesn’t matter if the cauldron or fate put them together. It has to be accepted, like when Nesta accepted the bond between her and Cassian.

There can be a mating bond between Azriel and gywn all day, but the question is, will Azriel or Gwyn accept it?

Yes, that's exactly it. They LOVE talking about 'mate language' which isn't a thing. Because SJM's used the same language for romantic and non-romantic couples. Literally the 'something sparked in______' (usually chest) was said by Feyre about Tamlin, and Lorcan about Aelin. Never about Elain by Lucien or vice versa, for example. So, an officially mated couple, as they all like to claim Elucien to be, hasn't felt the said spark, but a completely non-mated one like Lorcan and Aelin have? So what--Lorcan x Aelin = endgame?

What matters are ACTIONS. Not random sparks.

Like even in unsuccessful couples, like RHys's parents, the first thing his father did was misted the soldiers who wanted to clip his mate. It's always about actions--especially those of men towards their women. The women go to bat for their men as well, but the men feel the bonds more acutely.

Sorry, but Gwynriel is dead in the water.

Azriel was half-asleep when Gwyn was kidnapped. And so he remained.

Please. Stop making Gwynriel happen.