#westerosi bastards

[horizon-verizon]

Maybe this Will Put Things into Perspective about Rhaenyra & Cersei's Kids Being Bastards or Not...

Feudalism is an early period or a economic phase of a millennia-managed con against anyone who isn't a noble man, and most men are the active conmen.

Neither set of kids were ever declared bastards. Nor were they ever or "acknowledged" as bastards, because noblemen "acknowledge" a child they father onto another woman. noblewomen, in theory, can, but if their having had sex premaritally/extramaritally isn't already known outside of the household they do not. Because to do without it already being known (like with Alys Turnberry) would publicly ruin her prospects for marriage in the future, ruin her reputation, and likely muddy the family's as well.

Robert probably would have removed those kids from the line of succession had he known (and he didn't) if not outight remove them from the mortal coil. But instead, he got gutted. Therefore, Cersei's kids are not officially or "legally" bastards. That prior declaration is what is required to have them "legally" known as bastards.

Bastardry has always been more of a legal question in its nature than a biological fact of nature. Of course, we the audience and most of ther know that Rhaenyra's kids aren't Laenor's biologically; Ned correctly deduced that Cersei's weren't Robert's biologically. However, he was never able to get his information to matter "legally", or to get it to Robert to make a decision on. Whereas Laenor, Corlys, Viserys all knew and decided to maintain the boys as their heirs. And they made this decision based on the lack of knowledge the public has/what they can control. Which is often what any noble does; once again, GRRM has explicitly stated that the lords of Westeros often take advantage to twist "laws" (customs) according to the circumstances around them & their own desires, and it's is not exclusive to bastards already "acknowledged".

The purpose of marriage as an institution is entirely for the lord/nobleman's benefit. It is an institution that was created and developed entirely for a man's political interests (a father's, a brother's, a husband's, a son's, etc.). And it was made to consolidate/monopolize the noble woman's (or really any woman) body and reproductive labor so as to produce living products to pass on the resources/titles mainly the lord and his ancestors have aggregated. To try to make sure those resources are passed to the people the lord wants passed own to, the sexual purity culture imposed on women and girls works to construct shame & suppress female extramarital and premarital sexual activity, which is an aspect of her overall agency. Her agency is re-confined/socially reduced to her sexual activity because she has no other primary function nor legal privileges aside form being a wife, mother, daughter, virgin, etc. Or sometimes the protectoress of her husband's/son's assets: the castle at times of war/siege when the lord is not present; director of his household's activities and servants by being its head overseer of accounts. Therefore, the lord is literally claiming his wife as his effective property through her womb & this is often why when we see women like Daena sleeping with a man not her husband, it is an act of reinforcing her authority or political agency in spite of how she was raised to see her own body.

Think about it: why do we not have a world or society (fictional or not) where even though the wife births a child not her husband's the husband's do not willfully or are "legally" compelled to adopt that child as their own, effectively de-fathering the biological father? Because men want to feel as if they have as close to total ownership over female companionship and labor so they consolidate power to themselves and not to women. Having all these designations of gender and "bastardry" that everyone are compelled to follow makes that easier without expending energy or sharing power. Medieval customs put the social-legal identification of "bastard" from the institution of marriage, its compulsions on women, and their reproductive labor/bodies/uteruses being claimed by the men who are "licensed" to own them. Which is why when we say that neither Cersei's nor Rhaenyra's kids are "bastards" it is true, because the purpose of bastardry is to attempt to reclaim the product of reproductive labor and Viserys/Corlys/Laenor/Robert have already done that. To protest about how Robert didn't know about his kids not being his kids is really to protest how he didn't not get the products of Cersei's reproductive labor in the usual male-prioritized business of objectifying female labor that is intrinsic in this feudal society. Whereas Viserys/Laenor/Corlys accepted the products of Rhaenyra's reproductive labor.

All this is also why I really don't care for the impassioned argument of these women were being "unfair" to the system (Rhaenyra) or to their husbands, fathers etc. (Cersei) or them being "liars" or "destructive". Feudalism is itself an objectifying, unfair, unequal system. It is designed to benefit men and mainly men inherently, and directly at the expense of women who risk death itself while a man fathering any sort of kid never risks death. Men lie and destroy the women who birth their children, manage their household, protect their castle, rear their children....and it is all "licensed" and justified under the constructed institutions of marriage, oath-making, knighthood and principles of chastity, virginity, the different sub-meanings of "honor" for men vs women, etc. Men are themselves already objectifying or making an exclusive economic use of their female counterparts as well as going back on their vows (a deal that is still in feudal marriages, even for men) through their socially-allowed extramarital and premarital affairs producing bastards.

[queenvhagar]

The only difference between Otto and Corlys is that the show wants you to root for the Blacks and not the Greens. They did the same thing essentially: pushing for their daughter to marry the king in order to get close to the throne and advocating for the interests of their family above all others. Yet somehow Otto is evil for doing so and Corlys is a great family man 🤔

[soyboywenzie]

for all the parroting about loving evil characters and wishing they were worse and hating the morality argument, team green does not like the fact that their favs aren’t well liked, nor cared about that much 😗

[dulcewrites]

Feminine urge to write a fic that is about the dance, but from the point of view of a peripheral smallfolk or lesser born woman

[killpilled]

Oh no not the hotd legal analysis

[dragonseeds]

“daemon would’ve killed rhaenyra’s other children to put their son on the throne and you’re stupid if you don’t know that” even if he had that idea daemon has erectile dysfunction which symbolizes his inability to follow through with—

[theplasticman]

asoiaf/hotd mutuals i think im becoming a greens stan 😦

[astancerseiblog]

i understand it is to establish her sons as legitimate heirs but something about rhaenyra trying to put her white son on the seat and the only seat of the black people in westeros just doesn’t sit right with me.

[visenyaism]

cersei lannister had about 3-5 business days of peace at the end of a game of thrones where it’s like. plan she singlehandedly concocted to murder her abusive terrible husband THE KING goes off without a hitch literally flawless execution most successful kingslaying in westerosi history. rhaegar outfit at his funeral. anyone who suspects foul play is in the dungeon or on her side. coup d’état equally successful. her bastard son installed as ruling king. ned stark in prison about to swear fealty to the lannisters and get ransomed cutting hostilities off at the pass. one stark kid in custody and littlefinger promised to take care of the second one. annoying brothers-in-law scattered to opposite ends of the kingdom away from her away from each other not a problem. lysa arryn doing fuck all. tyrion in enemy custody and not the walls. father and brother going to war for her. also jon arryn who she never liked is dead as a freebie. and then she never came down from this high but can you blame her

[15-lizards]

AGOT Dash simulator

⚔️ ser-bran Follow

Going climbing again today!! Trying the highest tower in Winterfell 😝

⚔️ ser-bran Follow

hopital

☀️ dornedaydreams Follow

JON ARRYN DEAD 🦀🦀🦀🦀

🍇redwhined Follow

Girl what did he do to you

☀️ dornedaydreams Follow

Old and busted

🐉 conquerors-girl Follow

That new Khaleesi in the grass sea is fourteen. She should be learning her letters from a septa!

🐉 conquerors-girl Follow

Just found out she’s pregnant…I need Drogo to get Rhaegar’ed IMMEDIATELY

⬛️ bro-in-black Follow

Mormont just gave the 5’6 fourteen year old asshole bastard who’s been here five minutes his ancestral sword. I will take us all out with wildfire

🕊️littlestbird Follow

Was snooping for the spider today and I overheard Lord Ned asking about a book of noble family lineages and physical traits after whipping his head back and forth between Robert and Queen Cersei’s kids for like five minutes straight

🕊️ littlestbird Follow

Which could mean nothing

🍋 ladyjonquil Follow

First tourney today guys!!! I’m sososo excited the knight of the flowers literally gave me a rose! If he wins I might be his queen of love and beauty omgfggnnd

🐺 nymeriiia Follow

LMAO TWINK DOWN!

👁️thosuand-eyes-and-one Follow

Lost thirty dragons betting on Ser Jamie for the twelfth time. Can someone who’s good at budgeting help me. my family is dying

🐈‍⬛ lordpounce Follow

🦀 KING ROBERT DEAD 🦀

⭐️ lancel-the-lancer Follow

🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀

👑 lannisportlady Follow

🦀🦀🦀🦀

🌲 house-whoare Follow

Lmao y’all are acting like Jofferys any better when there have literally been reports of him skinning cats alive

🐕 thehounddawg Follow

How do those Baratheon boots taste

🌫️ quite-quiet-isle Follow

THE PRINCE IS LITERALLY A BARATHEON

🏹 flea-top Follow

I hate this stupid city watch job so fucking much. Someone manifest an execution or something so I have some entertainment while I walk the parapets by the Sept of Baelor

🏹 flea-top Follow

By the mother this can’t be happening

🔥 Targupdates Follow

Exiled princess Daenerys Targaryen has been seen stepping out of her husbands pyre with three dragon hatchlings on her shoulders

Keep Reading

🦁Lann1girl Follow

Guys please don’t buy into this type of stuff, do your own research. These gossip accounts are a bunch of targ loyalists. Dragons died out during the dance please do not spread false information!

🧜‍♀️ womanderly Follow

Cersei Lannister isn’t gonna fuck you man

🔥 red-rhollor Follow

ALL WILL BOW TO STANNIS BARATHEON, TRUE KING OF THE SEVEN KINGDOMS. IT HAS BEEN WRIT FOR CENTURIES IN FIRE AND IN ICE, HE IS THE PRINCE THAT WAS PROMISED. HE WILL BANISH THE DARKNESS.

🐦‍⬛ wallravens Follow

????

🪷lys-living Follow

Girl what

🌊 father-rhoyne Follow

Is there lead in the dragonstone water

🌞 sunspearsss Follow

So glad to witness episodes of true psychosis on this website

🌏 westerosi-heritage-posts Follow

Heritage post

[horizon-verizon]

Do you really think that the realm will support Jacaerys's claim eventually? After all the rumors about his bastardy are really strong and most TG stans claim that since Jace is a bastard he can't inherit anything, Jace needs to be legitimized first. I really like Jacaerys character and I'm new in this fandom, so this matter is so confuse to me.

Btw your post are amazing ❤️

Thanks, anon!

Answer to Question #1

1)

I have many, many posts about bastardry and the boys' illegitimacy vs legitimacy: HERE, HERE, HERE, HERE, HERE, & HERE. Basically, Jace is not really illegtimate bc illegtimacy must be "proven" and he was never proven to be. People have to argue/prove for it more than people having to argue whether or not one's hair is red or not. And

2)

Jace was actually respected outside of his family (A Son for a Son"):

3)

Several of those greens stans are not reading the damn text and refuse to see that Jacaerys was actually pretty admired by one of Rhaenyra's biggest supporters, Cregan Stark ("A Son for a Son"):

Also, Alicent had been, FOR YEARS, trying to get more people on her side and denounce or pressure either Viserys into removing Rhaenyra and her sons from the line of succession (both bk and show) or just get MOST of the lords at court and beyond to denounce Rhaenyra and her sons...and yet she had to resort to a usurpation, imprisoning courtiers and servants to withhold news of Viserys' death, pressured the council to crown Aegon after many lines of persuasion buttressed by Cole & Otto's input and wild accusations and assertions about Rhaenyra's sons, Daemon, and Rhaenyra not being actually the Queen...

I'd say that Alicent failed to convince anyone to really go against Rhaenyra by depending on the boys illegitimacy.

Answer to Question #2

Do you mean if Rhaenyra had ascended peacefully (no war at all, no usurpation) or had won the war with Jacaerys still alive when she did? Yes, he is her heir and the lords fought for her...they were a package deal. If you didn't want to have Jace as the next ruler, you would not fight for the person who names him as heir. Rhaenyra would have consolidated her reign and ensured her line's future better.

Now if we're talking about DURING THE WAR, Jace somehow survived but Rhaenyra did not/lost, I think there would have been a bit more difficulty without Cregan Stark, Jeyne Arryn, the Blackwoods, Vyprens, other lords who respected that their vows applying to Rhaenyra applied to her heir as well (bc again, they came as a package deal politically) and without as many dragons as the blacks had. Since most of the lords didn't swear to him but just to Rhaenyra, maybe some lords would use this as an excuse to defect or leave the war altogether because it stil costs them resources, some still will use this to justify how a male line goes before a woman's line, and/or they are just greedy AND cowardly and see this as they way to flagrantly ally themselves with the greens.

in the beginning. Bc the actual named heir/undoubtedly trueborn person is no longer there to enforce/support Jace's claim.

And once again, Cregan Stark made his Pact with Jace [2nd pictured quote above]...Cregan was a beast after the war and northerners are mad about their vow-taking, arguably more than "southern" folk. Cregan also liked Jacaerys very much from what's written about them--some fans theorize romantically, but whatever. He also had a higher emotional stake in it, which is an amplifying motive to the primary one about the Pact.

As for Jeyne Arryn, she was steadfastly loyal to Rhaenyra's cause because she was blood through Aemma, she would be helping to make sure her own position was securer from male relatives who already tried to oust her, and because Rhaenyra was a woman--like her. Women in a man's world an all that ("A Son for a Son"):

(Cregan also was interested bc he was having trouble with an uncle trying to oust him...succession things). Thus it could get easier for Jace to default back to him having been Rhaenyra's heir, he's never been "found out" to not be Laenor's , and he's a male dragonrider. again, this is if he loses most of Rhaenyra's supporters, bc it's still possible that he'd reatin the bigger and important ones.

Also, if Daemon somehow by some miracle managed to dispatch Aemond and come back...they'd likely fight with and for Jace anyway because Daemon is just loyal &--by reputation and action--brutal like that. Jace--less likely...key words--loses that many supporters of Rhaenyra's.

[fragileheartbeats]

"your a woman, you supposed to take Rhaenyra's side!!"

My dude, why would you discriminate for her just because she's a woman? You guys just go blind because she's a woman. You're the one who give her a pass because she's a woman.

I never understood these feminist fight.

Feminism is about equality, but nothing was equal between Aegon and Rhaenyra.

Their childhood and adolescence were different like the earth and the sky. Their age, their marriage, the way others treated them and in short everything about them was unequal.

When reading F&B I didn't care much for Aegon when he was introduced as this lazy, unambitious sot. But as the war progressed I couldn't help but notice his resilience, courage and intelligence and root for him.

Look at what Aegon was like in the earlier parts of F&B. He drank a lot, groped and pinched serving girls, potentially fathered multiple unacknowledged bastards, and was an all-round dick. He wasn’t as fierce as Aemond, as courteous as Daeron, or as gentle as Helaena. He started a fight at the family feast when Jace offered a dance to Helaena (the same wife whom he was serially unfaithful to). While the Greens launched their coup, he was at some degenerate “revels”. When Aemond murdered 13-year-old Luke, he threw a celebration and called it “a good start.”

But after the Dance’s actual battles began, Aegon really lived up to his title! He had Criston Cole capture Duskendale and Rook’s Rest, and then fought on Sunfyre to take out Rhaenys when she fell for the bait. Despite his crippling injuries, he survived. Even after his sons were butchered and King’s Landing fell, he fought on. Aegon and Sunfyre recovered on Dragonstone, with Sunfyre killing Grey Ghost along the way. Then Aegon and his forces took the castle under the Blacks’ noses. He and Sunfyre won yet another dragon battle against Baela. And again Aegon clings onto life in the face of crippling injuries. Then he traps and kills Rhaenyra while uttering a fantastic line "Rhaenyra: My lords will find me. Aegon: If they search the seven hells mayhaps." He returns to KL as King. The various self-proclaimed monarchs and the Shepherd are promptly defeated. It is a hell of a comeback considering Aegon’s state when he left the capital.

It's remarkable how quickly he grows into his role as king and how devoted to his cause he becomes by the end. He is determined to reclaim his father's throne, to restore order to kings landing by putting down the rebellion and punishing the insurgents, make peace with his enemies, he already plans to marry a Baratheon girl not for love but for duty to get an heir again. From the irresponsible, lazy drunk he supposedly was you would expect him to be vain, selfish and hedonistic, someone who only pursues his own pleasure and expects others to do the hard work, but no the hardships and responsibilities shaped him into someone who takes duty seriously. Even though prone to make rash, and imprudent decisions he also had the favourable quality to listen to the counsel of wiser and more experienced people around him and nearly always follows their advice. I think towards the end of the Dance it's painfully clear he is a better ruler than Rhaenyra.

Aegon had a 13 to 4 dragon disadvantage and a 53 to 28 House disadvantage, does this seems equal to you? Yet he still won (now if you wanna tell me "But Rhaenyra's lineage continued" pls shut your mouth because we are talking about the winner of war and the win you guys are so proud of is a fucking joke)

It’s hard for me to call him a bad King because he was given the worst situation of any King in Westerosi history with a civil war where you’re at a disadvantage starting out. The Greens should’ve been steamrolled but thanks to Aegon resiliency and Rhaenyra’s incompetent they weren’t.

People show you who they really are when they are tested and things are not going their way. Rhaenyra was tested and failed to rise to the occasion every single time. I find Rhaenyra utterly, utterly pathetic, without any redeeming quality as a ruler, as a person, as a woman.

By marrying and having kids with Daemon, she pretty much guaranteed a three-way civil war between Daemon's sons, her bastards, and her brothers the minute she dropped dead. So it doesn't matter if it was Aegon who sat on iron throne, this war was supposed to happen.

We saw Rhaenyra rule. She was a disaster. A ruler who puts their selfish desires above duty will always be a disaster. That's what Rhaenyra was: a selfish entitled person who didn't give a fuck about anyone other than herself. It's a miracle she had such decent kids.

Rhaenyra had a better council. The Sea Snake was wealthy and powerful, Rhaenys was beloved by many and respected as well. Meanwhile, Aegon's advisors were mostly Hightower cronies and quite a few were motivated mostly to spite Rhaenyra. Yet she fucked that up.

Rhaenyra literally was kicked out of the throne because people were tired of her reign, no one had this opposition besides Maegor.

People also like to excuse her cruelty and stupidity during her brief reign as a queen because she lost her children during the war. But Rhaenyra was a selfish entitled person long before she became queen or lost any of her kids. She wanted Aemond, who was just a boy, punished for calling her boys bastards, which they were. She murdered and advocated torture to keep up the lie. Let's not forget how she murdered Vaemond Velaryon for speaking up against Lucerys inheriting Driftmark ahead of trueborn Velaryons.

Or how she ignored the entire reason she was made heir by marrying Daemon anyway when she was made heir to keep that psychopath from the throne. All these things happened before Rhaenyra lost any of her children or got usurped. The losses didn't change her. They just worsened what she already was.

She ordered daily executions, established "knights inquisitors" to hunt down innocent children, would not offer peace terms, imposed ridiculous taxes while throwing a lavish birthday party for her son, and then tried to have her allies murdered.

She is insanely selfish - am I the only one who thinks she's a very very scary narcissist? Never in the whole course of her life has she had a single concern about others - it's always about herself, her children who she sees as an extension of herself. Even the great narcissist Cersei has shown some small sympathy towards Sansa when she was engaged to Joffrey. She never even bothered to visit or care for her father, instead she was chilling with her creepy uncle on Dragonstone.

She uses and manipulates, and tramples over others and treats her allies like absolute garbage. Corlys Velaryon was first grandcucked, then got his son murdered either by her or her husband, then got his granddaughters deprived of their birthrights and betrothed to bastards. Yet for some reason still supports his great abuser. What did he get in return? Being thrown in the black cells for trying to save the life of his innocent and loyal bastard son.

She inspires zero loyalty and devotion from either her people or the nobles. She insults important nobles who have never offended her, doesn't make alliances, calls the small folk scum and taxes them to death. No wonder they call her Queen Maegor and threw her out of the city. She doesn't make one single selfless and smart political decision. The Vale and the North might have supported her on paper - they hardly did anything until the war was almost over - she had no real allies except some semi-god Rivermen who were scared into supporting her by Daemon.

She is an utter coward and liar. Her youngest son and teenage stepdaughter both took to dragon back before her, as she hid like a coward and sent others to die for her. She took it for granted that others should die for her ungrateful and pathetic cause. She gaslights others into lying about her bastards' parentage and maims/executes everyone who disagrees.

She is a cruel, stupid and atrocious ruler with zero redeeming quality. She filled her council with idiots like Bartimus Celtigar and some Kingsguard/Commander who don't know a single thing about ruling. She listened to the counsel of that child-murderer Mysaria. She never made allies or made sensible political decisions. Her eldest son Jace has ten times her diplomatic skills.

She was extremely cruel during her short reign as Queen. She beheaded people daily, filled the city with terror, imposed crazy taxes including taxes on bastards, imprisoned any dissenters, made people pay to watch executions, threw a feast while people starved and resulted in all the dragons being killed.

She never defends the rights of other women, she thinks she is the special exception to the patriarchy. Just ask Lord Rosby's daughter. She usurps her stepdaughter's birthright in favor of her bastards.

She fully deserved her fate, because she spent her whole life avoiding duty and responsibility, using, abusing and manipulating those closest to her, ruled like a tyrant and led to the extinction of her dynasty.

Tell me one positive quality of this utter failure of a Targaryen has and I will refute you.

Aegon suffered much more than Rhaenyra but he didn't give up, all these events only made him grow and become stronger unlike Rhaenyra who fucked everything up and got worse day by day. He lived in real world and knows if he don't fight for himself no one gonna do that, but Rhaenyra was still on her I'm my daddy's princess so I do whatever the fuck that I want era. like a leech, Rhaenyra relied on others to survive, she was delulu. Oh did I mention she sold her crown and ran away like a coward? Did I mention Aegon had to clean the mess that she made?

And did you guys noticed almost all the rulers after Aegon II are mad, stupid, useless, coward? Just like Rhaenyra.

Now you can disagrees with me, that's ok but don't even try to fight with me about her or try to change my mind because it's not gonna work. Idk about you but I don't want my feminist icon to be someone like Rhaenyra.

Oh and if you wanna use "but Aegon was a rapist" card go read the fucking book or this post.

[crushingthebroken]

the fact ryan condal keeps hitting with the villain bat anyone who has a problem with rhaenyra and daemon's absolutely destructive behavior is beyond me

he turned corlys and rhaenys into simps who don't give a fuck that rhaenyra and daemon conspired to murder their son & daemon executed corlys's brother in the middle of the throne room for standing up for his family's blood right to driftmark to not pass to bastards who were being passed off as trueborn(a literal crime in westeros)

he removed all of rhaenyra's negative traits and made her out to be this tragic righteous angel who everyone should cheer for no matter what

no one cares about the random person daemon murdered to use as laenor's body double but we get 50 scenes of the serving girl aegon SA'd and she's coming back for season 2 - a character who does not exist in the books

vaemond is portrayed as a greedy and grasping fool instead of a man desperate to keep his family's seat in his family - westeros's world means blood is everything

daemon's crimes of murdering his first wife, grooming his niece/wife, being the westerosi equivalent of a neo nazi(except with valyria, a eugenicist oligarchy built on slavery and slaughter) are all brushed under the rug for "YAS MALEWIFE" (do you honestly think he would allow his wife's bastards to inherit ahead of his kids with her? nope)

meanwhile criston cole has his honor violated by rhaenyra who uses him like a glorified dildo - a sacred vow of the kingsguard that means death or castration for any who break it - and calls her a cunt one time and he's the worst man alive

corlys pimped out his 12 year old daughter to viserys and no one cares, but otto does it with alicent and he's somehow the most evil man alive next to criston cole

corlys in 1x10 was fucking hilarious

"rhaenyra was complicit in our son's death. that girl destroys everything she touches."

-minutes later-

"you have the full support of my fleet and house"

condal says the show isn't biased. and i'm the empress of austria.

[prophecyofwinter]

Se Hāedar Qilōni Iprattan Se Jēdar | I

Aemond Targaryen x Reader

Summary | Saera Targaryen daughter of Jaehaerys I ran away from Westeros to escape her fate. 45 years later her daughter Y/N Targaryen, with invitation from King Viserys wishes to go back.

Tags | TargCest, Smut, Standard ASOIAF content, I wanted to write something raunchy with plot, Aemond and Reader are First Cousins Once Removed.

Prologue

Chapter I | The Rest and More

With lots of persuasion from you and lady-lessons from your mother, she deemed you fit enough to sail to King's Landing. However she would not send you alone, she entrusted your safety to your slightly elder brother Vaegon.

He had trained for years in the Temple of Light to become a swordsman, and a fine swordsman he was. Brother or not he really did piss you off most of the time, now more than ever. Once he learned of your impending betrothal to the Targaryen Prince he soured up more than normal. He berated your Mother for days on how she could ever allow this.

He would of course still be a bastard even if you were legitimate, this was only so you could marry Aemond.

“What if he is ghastly! You know someone being unmarried for this long most likely means it’s for a reason!”

You weren’t sure what stick Vaegon had up his ass but you wouldn’t let him ruin this for you, this voyage was bad enough. Perhaps you’d be able to claim a dragon, there are plenty laying around on Dragonstone…

“I am sure I will be able to handle whatever Prince Aemonds complexion is, especially having to witness you for the past 19 years.”

————

“In King’s Landing you can’t wear these kinds of fabrics, these are a whores garments there.”

Your mother threw your old clothes to the side and motioned for you to turn around. She put a thick and hard piece of material around your waist and tied up the back.

“Alright my sweet, breathe in and-“

Suddenly all the air in your lungs was forced out in a shriek as your whole rib cage was crushed under the pressure of whatever the absolute hells this was.

“This is beauty in King’s landing! This will become your life, remember this is what you wanted.”

—————

You’d be at sea for about a month or less depending on the winds. You craved to be back on solid ground, your stomach was not agreeing with you. Sleep escaped you night after night, only catching small power naps multiple times a day before the rocking of the ship would wake you once again.

The tight clothes and strict codes for ladies your mother had laid upon you for survival in Westeros weighed in your head. You hoped your husband would not be as overbearing as you’ve heard of Westerosi men to be.

—————

Your mother had called some of her top prostitutes to come in and teach you the rules and ropes of intercourse.

“The merchants from Westeros really enjoy the girls who act sweet and innocent. You will be expected to provide as much as he pleases, and you mustn’t bore him.”

The brunette climbs on top of you and places her hips between yours, both of you fully clothed doesn’t make the moment less intimate than what you’ve had.

“Now, let’s act out how you cry out for mercy, how you beg for him to be gentle on your body.”

She begins to mimic the motions of intercourse to test and see if you are ready for what she claims will become of your life. A weird sense of embarrassment stings throughout your body, you weren’t expecting this kind of training. You didn’t know there needed to be this kind of training.

“Come on my lady, let's hear you!” She taunts you with a laugh, she grabs your wrists and pins them to the bed to really get it out of you.

——————

You could only spend most of your time reading, reading history books and other stories from Westeros. You could speak the language fluently enough, but you will get it fully soon.

Hopefully you won’t have to give up your favorite foods, the Targaryens should be rich enough to import all the finest things from Essos. Pomegranates, Watermelon, Blackberry Wine, Duck and the list goes on…

The salty air fills your nose, it would be lovely if you weren’t seasick constantly. Reading distracts your mind enough to forget your current feelings.

You haven’t heard anything about the other Targaryens outside of the history books, you don’t even know what the current ones are like…

Your mother doesn’t have good views of, well, anyone. She told you to expect the worst from most of them, if they were anything like her father then you should be watching your back at all times.

Amongst all things and her dislike for Westeros, she wanted to see you happy the most. She said time and time again she would allow you to come back no matter what.

She was sweet and kind where a mother should be.

——————

“What if I claimed a dragon? I could visit you at any time I wanted to, right?”

You asked your mother over morning tea, you were to set sail later today. This would be the last time you would see your mother for the foreseeable future.

Saera rubbed her aging finger over the rim of her cup and laughed to herself a little.

“A dragon isn’t something you can promise, most of my siblings never claimed a dragon in their lifetime.”

You huffed and pouted, your motivation to claim a dragon only increased tenfold. Ever since you were a child when you were told you couldn’t do something it would only make you want it more.

“However, if you were to claim a beast… you would fancy Silverwing I believe. Or if you seek to be bitter, my father would roll in his grave if he knew my child claimed Vermithor…”

Saera laughed to herself heartily, entertaining her child’s wild ideas. She doesn’t doubt you would attempt to claim but she doesnt be believe it would be successful.

——————

Viserys was not expecting Saera to accept his proposal. So he was shocked when Alicent burst into his chambers with a letter in and holding it out to him in anger.

“What is this?! You offer Aemonds hand to the daughter of a whore?! What were you thinking!”

He left out a guttural cough into the fabric of his handkerchief. The unexpected stress of Alicents

rage seething onto him, he was gonna tell her… eventually.

“He is my son too, I must leave no Targaryen unaccounted for. I cannot die in peace knowing there is a- a good Targaryen across the sea. You have been trying to get Aemond wed for years, it- it is the best choice.”

Alicent braces herself on a wooden chair and lets out a deep breath with her head down. Her husband is a fool, he will look like a fool to the seven kingdoms and this girl is proven to be used.

The Queen remembers how she would read to King Jaehaerys on his deathbed and he would mistake her for Saera. He would reach out to her and ask for forgiveness, the guilt would eat at her because it was not hers to give. Until the day his body gave out and he couldn’t muster words anymore he would ask for Saera.

To Alicent, Saera had made her choices and she wanted to be where she was. To bring her bastards into it was too far, she had no choice in the matter. Being the Queen didn’t matter if the King already made up his mind.

“You will force me to greet her I presume. You are far too ill to make it to the port.”

Gods, Viserys already fell back to sleep. Rotted skin exposed and clearly pain stricken. Alicent sighed out loud in frustration and stormed out of the room, guards opening and closing the doors for her.

While she would like to think she knows how Aemond will feel about such an arrangement. He has been without betrothal for all his life and the ladies of the court actively avoid him. Perhaps this is something he needs.

[queenvhagar]

"Actually Jace and Luc aren't bastards and are in fact legitimate heirs because Rhaenyra/Laenor/Viserys/Corlys etc are playing along that they're legitimate and still consider them in line for succession, therefore anyone calling them bastards or trying to stop them from inheriting are just bastardphobic and problematic"

Okay, once and for all... let's look at the reality of Westerosi society and its laws, traditions, and customs. It's true that bastards in fact can be legitimized by the king and/or lords of houses. That's indisputable.

But crucially, they first have to be acknowledged as bastards and officially be made legitimate by a legal decree.

A famous example of this occurring is the case of King Aegon IV Targaryen. He had several bastards that he then claimed as legitimate on his deathbed. However, Aegon IV never tried to hide that they were of illegitimate birth and acknowledged them as bastards first. Then he officially decreed that his bastards were now legitimate and had claims to the Iron Throne after his death. Crucially, he didn't just pretend they were legitimate all along and try to convince anyone otherwise - Aegon IV made a decree to legitimize them because he and everyone knew they were bastards, and only an official act could change an illegitimate heir into a legitimate heir. Because he did this, all of his illegitimate children became legitimate in the eyes of Westerosi law.

In an example of how failing to do this could create problems, Cersei Lannister had bastards that she tried to pass off as legitimate Baratheons. Ned Stark deciphered the truth based on hair color and obviously took issue with the fact that Cersei's children were not Robert's children and were not legitimate heirs to Robert's throne. Because Ned knew that Joffrey was illegitimate and Cersei was trying to usurp lawful, rightful succession with her bastard, he tried to prevent Joffrey from taking Robert Baratheon's seat of power after his death. Of course, Cersei never could have feasibly acknowledged their illegitimate birth and then had them be made legitimate by decree - doing so would have exposed her incest with her twin brother, and the king would never support her or the children in legitimization. Cersei did not have the support of the king. So, because people knew that Joffrey was not Robert's child, they did not consider him to be the rightful inheritor of Robert's throne. This is basic feudalism. Whether it's just or unjust, according to our modern perspective, that is just how feudalism works, and it works like this based on centuries of precedent and law that was created to maintain societal order. It is based on these laws that the entire feudalist society operates. Had the king officially legitimized Joffrey, though, there would be less ability to dispute his succession. He would be seen in the eyes of the law as Robert's lawful heir.

In a very similar yet uniquely different situation, Rhaenyra Targaryen had bastards that she tried to pass off as legitimate Velaryons. Everyone (literally, at least in the show - even Daemon and Laena knew from an entire continent away) deciphered the truth based on hair color (and skin color, in the show) and many took issue with the fact that Rhaenyra's children were not Laenor's children and were not legitimate heirs to seats of power, especially Laenor's (or his father's) seat of power. Because people, like Vaemond Velaryon, knew that Lucerys was illegitimate and that Rhaenyra was trying to usurp lawful, rightful succession with her bastard, they tried to prevent Lucerys from taking Corlys Velaryon's seat of power after his death (and based on illegitimacy, they would likely challenge Jacaerys' inheritance of the Iron Throne after his mother). Having illegitimate children created a huge problem for Rhaenyra.

However, unlike Cersei, Rhaenyra was a woman who had a considerable amount of political power given the context. Rhaenyra was the heir to the Iron Throne, and she also had the full support of her father the king. At any point, it was extremely possible that the king and Corlys could and would officially legitimize the Strong boys and let them take their place in the line of succession. They could even justify it as "Targaryen exceptionalism" if they want, as many Targaryen rulers had done with the law in the past (see: incestual marriage and Jahaerys I Targaryen). This would especially make sense in the case of Jacaerys, who many argue naturally gains his legitimacy to sit the Iron Throne from being Rhaenyra's son. Others at the same time argue that Laenor and Corlys' adoption and acceptance of Lucerys as a "true Velaryon" gives him legitimacy to sit the Velaryon seat of power, and Corlys and the king could have officially decreed this by legitimizing Lucerys as a legitimate heir to the Velaryon seat of power. The act of legitimizing Rhaenyra's sons was possible and always an option.

Of course, this would mean that Rhaenyra would have to declare them first illegitimate and admit to an extramarital affair with the heir to Harrenhal. However, the king could protect her from the fallout, much like he protected her from other consequences she created by her actions. He could claim "Targaryen exceptionalism" and provide justification for her actions (like that argument that she had to, as Laenor was infertile or otherwise unable to produce heirs, for example) and then not only would you have the king's word as law but you would also have the king's decree as law. There would be no room to argue that. Her claim to the throne would be cemented again by the king and her sons would be officially and legally made legitimate heirs. Everyone already knew they were bastards. Officially legitimizing them would have been the solution to any problems that created.

There is no doubt that having her sons officially legitimized would strengthen her claim more than trying to continue to (unsuccessfully) gaslight everyone that they were always legitimate, instead demonstrating that she believes herself to be above the law or somehow smarter than everyone else. However, that's truly the crux of this issue here. Rhaenyra sees no need to legitimize her sons officially, because she believes that the wants of those she is destined to rule are "of no concern" to her. She views herself as above others due to her blood and birthright, so she would never take the politically aware and advantageous step of actually trying to solve the problem she created when she birthed not one but three obviously illegitimate children. She would instead prefer to continue to rely on her father to defend her, even in his dying days. The problem comes, then, when her father is gone. With the king dead, who else could she rely on to solve her problems for her?

In summary, Jace and Luc could have been officially legitimized at any point. This was uniquely a situation where they could have been officially legitimized and this would have solved a lot of problems. But they weren't.

[thesunfyre4446]

ok, so i've been getting a lot of "rhaenyra would never kill her siblings" asks recently.

first of all, no one is saying that rhaenyra WANTS to kill her brothers. but there's just no way that a woman & a bastard can inherit peacefully when 3 legitimate sons (with legitimate sons of their own) exist. this is not how westerosi politics work. the men in power wants to keep the men in power, this is the definition of patriarchy. and i'm not saying that's a good thing - because obvs it's not - but that's the truth. westeros is a patriarchal society.

the lords of westeros - the men in power - wants to preserve the existing order. legitimate sons inherit over daughters, bastards can't inherit. it's important to them because their own power is dependent on this very system. let's say rhaenyra becomes queen, and all of the sudden other firstborn daughters start to stand up and demand to be named heirs to their houses . let's say jace becomes the prince of dragonstone, and suddenly bastards that are older then their legitimate siblings start to demand their rights as well. from our modern pov - that's a great thing, but for the lords of westeros that's literally their worst nightmare.

"but a lot of houses supported rhaenyra". true! i'm not saying every lord in westeros will not accept her, i'm saying some of them def won't, and as long as aegon\aemond\daeron lives, there will always be someone advocating for their rights - and that's dangerous for rhaenyra and her family. so yeah, to protect herself and her children she will 100% kill her brothers. i'm not holding it against her - she's obvs going to care more about her children & herself then her brothers.

"but dorne ..." i feel like GRRM has made it abundantly clear that westeros does not want to become like dorne. dornish people are stereotyped and discriminated against - especially dornish women, that are viewed as promiscuous and are constantly oversexualized. westeros becoming like dorne is def not something westerosi men want.

ironically, jace will have to face the exact same situation with his own brothers aegon and viserys, but i digress.

also, did we forget how easily rhaenyra offered to have her 10yo brother tortured when she felt like her children were in danger? do you guys really believe that she's above murdering to protect them?