#with the exception of lucas and mike's fight in s1

[brionysea]

season 4 hawkins gang not knowing what a decent plan is if it slapped them in the face vs season 3 mike coming up with a prophetic plan comprised of various future events to beat will's campaign in 10 seconds flat

[love-byers]

helloooooo welcome to my account :)

here are my most popular stranger things posts, most of which are byler related, including theories and analyses. some of these were also covered on my tiktok back in the day. i've colored my favorites/the ones i think are the most important:

season 4

'not kids anymore' music coding

wild byler music editing

who makes mike feel better for being different?

the monologue is not a fucking hyperbole please shut up

the ONE time el and will butt heads...

van scene cinematography analysis

s4 epilogue cinematography analysis

Mike's self-pity parallel

Airport shenanigans

Rink o mania lighting

El does not trust mike

Mike dropping everything to fight with will

When blue meets yellow in the west is NOT reach

It's been a year, Mike. (byler s4 analysis/theory)

Harry Potter parallel

Byler being paralleled to canon couples

the whole point of Dear Billy...

Mike is a guilty liar

Mike wont stop whining about it. (byler phone theory)

Bedroom scene script analysis

Byler Romione parallel

Breaking down Mike's apology

You ruined my day!/You basically sabotaged the whole day!

Rink-o-mania detail

Mike/hopper parallel

Season 4 themes analysis

byler/rovickie parallel

Ell/Will parallel

Mike lying vs Mike telling the truth (mileven/byler parallel)

Discogate

max & lucas vs mike & el

mike was lying in the monologue

season 3

lucas the wingman

mike/hopper 'corruption' parallel

s3 finale scenes analysis

byler blocking

mlvn vs jancy cinematography

the concept of liking girls...

love triangle imagery

season 2

What was the point of it was the best thing I've ever done?

El/Will upside down parallel

why the emphasis on mike?

how to make an intimate scene

jancy/byler scenes

mike being weird at the snowball

season 1

mike lashing out at el

mike treats all his best friends the same...except will

stancy +mileven music coding

byler being built up from s1

general analyses

mike and will vs actual "unrequited" ships

DMGATE

Stancy/joyce & bob/mileven parallel

HEARTGATE

The biggest byler proof

el does not trust mike

Mike's weird language when he talks about el

Stranger Things Music Coding

every time we've heard 'I love you' in stranger things (ongoing)

El's makeovers/Elmax analysis

why i stopped shipping mileven

how mlvn could've been likable

"Will is mad at me I hope I die"

Byler if there was no heteronormativity

Use of flashbacks in stranger things (not my post but it is inspired by a discovery i made and it's incredible so give it all the love)

more will be added as i post more!

[stranger-feathers]

Why Lucas' arc in S4 doesn't work narratively

I will not talk about Lucas on the Line or the Dustin Experiment in this analysis, since I have read neither, nor will I go into the topic of racism in the 80s and the show's constant refusal to grapple with it directly. I will purely focus on what the show itself could have done to make the arc work, within the constraints of what the writers established (aka canon typical lack of acknowledgment of racism and its effects on Lucas). Feel free to discuss those topics in the reblogs or replies, I simply didn't find a way to fit them in satisfyingly, since none of these would have single-handedly fixed my issues with the show's choices.

1. Lack of foreshadowing in S3

The sudden inclusion of Lucas playing basketball was a surprise for most viewers when S4 aired, and for good reason : there were little to no hints towards that development beforehand. We know Lucas mows the lawn for neighbours to get money; we remember his iconic wrist rocket and army-like costume in S1, or his "kicking a door open at school" stunt in S2, which are all physical activities he seemingly partakes in happily. But while Lucas has always been hinted to be more sporty than the rest of the party, basketball was never one of the activities associated with him, or even sports in general, let alone school ones. That lack of foreshadowing means that Lucas is likely to lack the viewer's support from the get-go, because he appears to be the one breaking the status quo for no reason by choosing basketball over D&D. That might be intended, it might not, but I lean towards unintended : S4E1 tries too hard to make the viewer empathise with Lucas if they didn't want us to side with him at least partially.

2. Flawed setup

Rewatching Season 4, one of the main issues I had with the setup for Lucas was who it was focused on : Mike. It's a logical choice given their previous interactions, because Mike and Lucas have always been pivotal characters for one another, especially in S3 where they spent the season tied together at the hip. The idea behind the conflict works really well : it's a continuation of their conformism in the previous season, except Mike is now trying to go back to who he was before it all. Lucas is understandably a bit upset that Mike changed his mind on something they apparently discussed (Mike nods when Lucas mentions plans to change things before they started high school), yet the viewer knows why Mike has done so (the rain fight comes to mind, along with the D&D themed goodbye to Will). It could have used a bit of foreshadowing in S3, but it's relatively easy to infer what's going on.

But this setup doesn't work past episode 1, since Mike fucks off to California for his romcom plot, which makes the conflict hard to resolve. After all, by the time Mike comes back, Lucas has bigger problems (his girlfriend in a coma and a pseudo apocalypse). A focus on Dustin would have been much easier to resolve, but the D&D/basketball conflict is never really brought up between them either. So, if it it's not treated as an intraparty conflict that needs resolving (as opposed to the S1 fight, for instance), what is it supposed to be ? A commentary on high school cliques and the damage they cause is my guess.

The other huge component in the setup is the high school cliques. Jason and Eddie are representative of their two clubs : the Basketball Team and the Hellfire Club. The boys are mostly caught in the crossfire between them, rather than the conflict being an active choice by Lucas or Mike/Dustin to not attend either of the activities. Lucas would come to Hellfire if Eddie moved it, and the other two would come to the game if it wasn't for the campaign. None of them are willing to lose their social standing over it, but there is no desire to force the others to choose : the only thing Lucas asks is a rescheduling, not for Dustin and Mike to ditch Hellfire. This in some way absolves them of at least some responsibility in the conflict, and might be why the writers decided that the personal resolution through either Mike or Dustin was unnecessary. None of them wanted to hurt each other, circumstances and high school mentality were the real issue.

The Jason/Eddie conflict is the root cause of the conflict, and it's through these characters that the writers will aim to solve it. The dispute starts as rather petty, one where Eddie is far from innocent : episode 1 leaves the viewer with a pretty terrible image of Eddie, as a pretentious man child who pretends to be more than he is through being the leader of a D&D club. The Chrissy scenes show a better side of him, but he still doesn't come across as a stellar individual with the boys (intended or not, considering Dustin's view of him later on, but that's a "Eddie's writing is eh" issue, and not one directly related to Lucas' arc). Regardless, it's still mostly a high school clique rivalry, not anything serious beyond the overall theme of outcast vs conformity of the series, and the question of "conforming to anti-conformity" while disparaging anything "normal" being, in itself, conforming (a pretty big part of Eddie's mindset). The issue lies in how Jason and Eddie then evolve as characters, and how this evolution forces Lucas to be presented as wrong, while Eddie and the other two boys aren't.

3. Intertwined arcs and delayed payoff

Jason and Eddie start the season as about equally in the wrong : by extension, so do Dustin and Lucas. However, Eddie gets a chance to grow out of the mindset that led to him hurting Lucas (seen notably in his speech to Steve), while Jason falls from grace more and more as the season goes on.

This leads us to the finale, where Jason is a direct antagonist, whereas Eddie dies a hero : they're not on equal footing anymore, but the conflict has yet to be resolved. Lucas is therefore forced into a setup where he "admits his wrongs" ("I never should have knocked" and "normal's just a raging psychopath", both very rad lines that nonetheless put him as firmly in the wrong thematically), whereas Dustin waxes poetry about Eddie's bravery. It's an unfair payoff to the initial setup, because Lucas was the character who was wronged in the first place, and is the only one who apologises. Regardless of the reason - unexamined bias on the part of the writers or innocent poor execution - the conclusion still leaves a pretty bitter taste. The payoff came too late into Jason's arc to be right for the initial conflict, and Eddie and Lucas don't get to have any scenes to resolve things before his untimely demise, leaving the viewer unsatisfied.

A simple scene between Lucas and Eddie would have done wonders to resolve the feeling of Lucas having been wronged, and would have let the Jason scene be what it was supposed to be : Lucas' refusal to fall down the same way he did, and his realisation that he will not find safety and happiness in conformity, nor in making himself anything less than he is. Imagine if the Steve scene had instead been a Lucas and Eddie scene, where Eddie gets to admit his wrong mindset and the hurt it caused ? Especially to someone we saw him hurt ? That certainly would have made the scene a lot more memorable than "Nerd learns Steve the popular jock isn't that bad : Electric Bugaloo (but without the build-up Robin's had)", and helped a lot in making Lucas' arc more satisfying.

Alas, that did not happen. The best we can hope for is for some reference to the conflict in Season 5, be it in some lingering tension between Mike and Lucas who have yet to clear the air between them, or in letting Lucas have a differing opinion from Dustin on Eddie. We will have to wait and see, although I would have much preferred the conflict to be well written in the first place.

[alcalystrasz]

Here's the list of all my theories about Stranger Things 5 (not in order):

-Robin dies -> either to sacrifice herself (for Vickie or Steve) or she gets killed by Vecna.

-Max dies -> she doesn't wake up of her coma (episode 6 or 7, preferably after Robin's death).

=> After everyone starts to lose hope, they all get the courage to read her letters and they get determined to avenge her and the other deaths (even from previous seasons, such as Barbara for Nancy).

-Jonathan dies -> by saving Nancy or Will.

=> causes an emotional damage to Will, losing his big brother, the only one who knew about who he was.

-Mike and Eleven break up because Mike wants them to be just friends.

-Mike finally tells Will he's in love with him (episode 6 or 7, preferably after Max's death).

-Mike and Will go in the Upside Down (no reason in my mind right now, except it could be to find something).

=> They find Eddie alive (not dead because or the following reason: it's impossible to get killed in the Upside Down if you're not killed by Vecna himself -> Barb was killed by Vecna in the Upside Down since we see her in the pool she died, trapped like Chrissy, Vecna's mother etc. This could explain why Vecna didn't die when Nancy, Steve and Robin tried in S4). ((This theory is the least possible one in my mind, just so you know)) => he really dies though in the end.

Then, mostly everyone becomes a target of Vecna. Here's the list and the causes (why are they a target) and the characters that saves them (in order):

-Dustin is a target -> cause: Eddie's death, as he feels guilt for letting him go back in the Upside Down without him -> Steve or Lucas saves him because of their strong friendship.

-Lucas is a target -> cause: He feels guilt for not saving Max before Vecna takes her -> Max (if she doesn't die) or Erica saves him.

*Robin dies at this moment before the others gets targeted*

-Steve is a target -> cause: He feels guilt because he couldn't save Robin from the hands of Vecna -> Nancy saves him.

-Nancy is a target -> cause: She feels guilt because of Barbara and Steve being a target, but mostly of Barb -> Jonathan saves her by dying = she feels a second guilt and Steve feels guilt too.

*Jonathan dies at this moment*

-Will is a target -> cause: Vecna shows him his old memories (with his mom, Jonathan, Mike and the Party), but mostly bad memories to show him how his life is miserable. He asks Will to join him but refuses -> The music "Should I Stay or Should I Go" gets a door to open (just like Max when "Running up That Hill" started), and Mike's voice gets Will to escape Vecna's lair. He crushes his left eye before escaping (foreshadowing from Eddie during the DnD campaign in S4).

-Mike is a target (endgame, mostly end of episode 7 or beginning of episode 8) -> El saves him by fighting with Vecna but she still doesn't kill him. She gets hurt because he got stronger.

Now, the most crazy theory:

-Everyone finds a plan: Time travel.

=> They think, if the time in the Upside Down stopped the day Will got into the U.D, maybe he's the key of the U.D. Why? Maybe Vecna gave him this "power" because they're alike (sensitive, lonely, and good drawer). So they think if Will goes back inside, they can come back to the day he got kidnapped by Vecna and kill him when he was less strong.

And the Endgame theories (so episode 8 or end of episode 7):

-The Party finally gets back together and are going to be the leaders of the last episode.

-Eleven saves Hawkins by killing Vecna.

=> Parallel with the first season: Eleven gets Vecna on the wall, being ready to kill him but before that, she turns her head to Mike or the Party and says "Goodbye" one last time just like in the final of season 1. She then kills Vecna inside of the U.D creating a sort of supernova (because she erases him like the Demogorgon in s1, but since she did that outside of the U.D and she teleported them in it, and this time she's inside, this world can't support it and it makes a sort of supernova). This causes the U.D to get closed forever and Eleven dies, closing the possibility of interacting with the U.D from the real world.

That's it!! Tell me what you guys think about this, it's the main theories in big lines, some things a more precise obviously.

[bylertruth3r]

Hiii, what were the signs in the first 3 seasons that will liked mike? When I watched it back in 2019 I thought Will was gay but I when I saw other people say that Will liked mike I wasn’t really convinced, obviously those people were super right, so if you want, can you tell me what were the signs? And are there signs that mike likes Will back? Thank you! 💕💕💕

thanks for asking :)) @palumboompje

1 in s1 Will was able to lie to everyone except Mike and told him that he rolled a 7 during the dnd campaign even though Lucas told Will to lie to Mike (Will was able to lie to Mike in s4 because he was lying for Mike and even there he wasn't able to look at him in the eyes when he told Mike that El commissioned the painting

2 in the Snowballl script it says that Will was looking at Mike who was dancing with El instead of looking at the girl he was dancing with

3 he was really jealous about Mike dating El and spending time with her and it was really evident during the rain fight

4 you can see him staring at Mike's lips in s2 when Mike was arguing with Seth about Nancy and in s3 at the cinema (and Mike was staring at Will's lips too)

and yes there are a lot of signs that Mike loves Will back and i have a pinned post about it but i'm gonna list a few

1 Mike keeps staring at Will's lips

2 his relationship with Willl has always been something more than platonic and you can tell by how much physical touch with Will he initiated and even the bullies know there's something more between them because when they were being homophobic to Will they said those things to Mike's face

3 Mike was the one more affected by Will's disappearance and even Hopper could tell because he was the first one he interrogated in s1

4 in the previous seasons he had no problem hugging Will and being more physical with him but after s3 things started getting awkward between them because of Mike and he hugged Will in that weird way (he doesn't know Will is gay) he took what Will said "and us?" at rink o mania romantically and felt the need to clarify that they're friends twice even though he views Will as straight and then "in the closet (at rink o mania) started playing while the camera was on Mike and he started talking again

5 Mike is the one who starts most of Byler's interaction and he has a soft voice he only uses for Will (his Will voice)

6 he got really jealous in s2 when Will agreed to let Max join them for Halloween because he thought Will also liked Max like Dustin and Lucas did, at the snowball he pushed Will into dancing with that girl and then he regretted it a few seconds after that and moped about it next to Dustin who was moping about Max dancing with Lucas, in s4 he got jealous and thought Will made a painting for a girl (Angela) but then when in the van he realized Will loves him back and that the painting was for him he got really happy about it

7 Mike wasn't able to say "i love you" to El because he's in love with Will just like Nancy wasn't able to say it to Steve in s2 because she's in love with Jonathan

8 he said that his friends are great but they're not Will and that Hawkins wasn't the same without Will "you know Max, Lucas and Dustin they're great, they're great it's just.. it's Hawkins it's not the same without you" and he asked Will to be a team which parallels Hopper saying "we make a great team" to Joyce in s3

9 he said asking Will to be his friend was the best thing he's ever done (he already knew El in s2 btw)

[thestrangestthing89]

Mike and El's behavior towards each other hasn't changed throughout the series. They haven't had any growth. S1 and S4 are essentially the same with regard to how they interact.

S1: Mike and El meet and have a plan for their time together - finding Will even though they are both scared. S4: Mike and El reunite and have a plan for their week - pretending to be the perfect couple even though they are both unhappy with their relationship.

S1: Their interactions are about finding Will. Every conversation (except 1) is about Will and how to get him back. S4: Their interactions are about Will - He's framed in every shot, in the back of Mike's mind constantly. Their relationship is centered around Will's feelings.

S1: The one conversation they have that isn't about Will is about bullying. It's a brief conversation. She says she understands. S4: Mike tries to talk to her about bullying again and she shuts him down. This wasn't a thing they bonded over.

S1: El lies to Mike repeatedly and Mike gets upset about it. S4: El lies to Mike about her whole life in Lenora and Mike gets upset about it.

S1: El is scared and defensive and accidentally attacks Lucas. Mike gets mad and she runs away. S4: El is scared and vulnerable and attacks Angela. Mike gets upset with her and they fight. She runs away.

S1: Mike triggers El's trauma with Brenner several times. He is also compared to Hopper several times (he finds her in the woods, takes care of her) S4: Mike triggers El's trauma with Brenner. He is also compared to Hopper several times (bringing her eggos after a fight, the platonic way they reunite)

S1: After El runs off, Mike and Dustin go looking for her. She's their best hope of finding Will. S4: After El runs off, Mike, Will, Jonathan, and Argyle go looking for her. She is in danger and is also the best hope of saving their friends in Hawkins.

S1: The group reunites and continues to work together to find Will. S4: The group reunites and continues to work together to help Hawkins.

S1: El exhausts herself trying to save everyone. At the end of the season she is laying on a table and Mike is talking to her telling her to hold on and keep fighting. El ends up sacrificing herself to save them. S4: El is struggling to fight. She is laying on a table and Mike is talking to her telling her to hold on and keep fighting. El ends up losing. (As a side note, I'm pretty sure Mike was flashing back to the moment in S1 here. It would account for some of his hesitation (obviously some of it is that he is lying). He pushed her to keep fighting then and she ended up "dying". He feels guilty for having to push her again. It's essentially the same situation).

S1: El feels guilty for putting the group in danger and doesn't try to find Mike. Instead she wanders around the woods until Hopper finds her and takes her in. S4: El distances herself from Mike for a lot of reasons. She reunites with Hopper and her family at the end.

So why is it that so many people can realize that Mike and El's interactions in S4 are a problem but not in S1? I think a lot of that has to do with their ages. People are more forgiving of mistakes when a 12 year old is making them than someone older. But interpreting their relationship in S1 as adorable is so weird to me. They have gone out of their way to make it clear that it isn't. The writers are seriously driving home these comparisons over and over again. They want people to see it. It's not bad repetitive writing - they are trying to tell us something. When they do a storyline like this TWICE, you need to pay attention. It's there for a reason. Their relationship hasn't changed at all. It's the same as it ever was. So if people can see that their interactions in S4 are a problem they need to take a look at why their interactions in S1 are ok. Because they are the same.

[foreverautumn89]

Thank you! I appreciate that so much. You have no idea how much.

I'll write down more if I think of them, but the ones off the top of my head:

-The ST teens [the older and younger ones] and the UA met because they're all in a type of support group that helps each other emotionally [think of it like therapy because thats what it is kind of] and the people in the group also help each other fight off the bad guys too when they show up in their lives again. For example, if Vecna showed up the UA would help to fight him [It's like one huge crossover fic thats not written down just going on in my head].

The ST teens were here first like the S1 OGs the party and Stoncy, but there have been newcomers [like Eddie ext] and they came in at the same time the UA joined this group. Jonathan and Steve and the party in particular were helping to teach them [everyone new from ST and the UA] about this group while also helping/guiding them through their own emotional issues since thats what they do there. Discuss their issues and have little therapy sessions. And they all helped each other get through lots of trauma. So there is a special bond between the two groups.

-Jonathan is the leader of the teens and he is the one who went through the most trauma so he usually would take the lead on helping people with their problems [the new st teens and the UA alike]

-Jonathan was especially helpful to the UA when they talked about their abusive fathers. He understood how they felt and comforted them about it and they were all helping each other through their trauma.

-Ben is the moral compass of his group and Jonathan is the moral compass of his group. They just hit it off immediately and usually their groups listen to their advice and listen to them over anyone else because Jonathan and Ben really think things through and try to encourage people to be their best true selves.

-Ben, Klaus, and Alison are the ones that Jonathan is closest to. He loves the others, but hes just closer to these three.

-Ben is Jonathan's guide and moral compass. Jonathan treats his word as the holy gospel. Ben loves Jonathan and often comforts him when he feels down about himself.

-It's become a sort of tradition now that the Academy has a habit of starting a dance off when they come to visit. They let them know they're here by one of them saying 'I don't know what circus you people escaped from or how you got past our security but we're done here….' except one of the Umbrella Academy says it and they reinact the S3 dance scene with them [Max Mike Dustin Lucas El Will] They do it because its funny and they just like being silly together. It helps to do that when their lives are usually filled with drama. I know the dance scene was part of Diego's imagination, but here Diego's 'dance scene with his family' wish is a reality.

-The UA and all the teens always have to listen to the song 'Twistin the Night Away' and dance to it together everytime the UA visits. Its their happy song.

-The UA are coming to the Stonathan wedding and are really supportive of their relationship.

-Jonathan and Steve hang out with Klaus and Ben the most and they make each other laugh and have the most fun together.

-The UA also were one of the groups who helped teach the teens especially the new ones how to fight better. like if they ever had to have a psychical fight again with something Vecna sent their way again or how to fight the town of Hawkins considering what happened with the townspeople coming after them in s4.

@faithfulcat111 Thank you so much for always liking my posts and supporting me. It always cheers me up. 😊 Just wanted you to know I appreciate you. I love your background of Alison and Ray btw. In my headcanons, the ST group and Umbrella Academy group are friends. 🥰

[charlie-pippin-faraday]

the stranger things gang ranked by oldest sibling energy to youngest sibling energy

jonathan byers

nancy wheeler

steve harrington

lucas sinclair

robin buckley

will byers

mike wheeler

eddie munson

argyle

max mayfield

el hopper

erica sinclair

dustin henderson

[lordystrange]

10 best byler proofs by me

10. The cast, especially David (who knows the ending) and Finn (who might know something), are always so happy talking about Byler. They wouldn’t be if Will ended up dying alone as a sad gay. Also no one likes milkvan except maybe Millie unless she’s acting… Caleb even said ”Lucas and Max’s love is real unlike Milkvan’s”.

9. Mike has been queercoded throughout the whole series. Especially with queer colors, he spent s4 dressed as a gay pride flag. Also bi and pan colors are associated with him. Also Ted’s ”our son with a girl?” and everything Eddie said about forced conformity etc

8. Byler parallelling other romantic ships like Jancy, Jopper and Lumax. I’m not listing examples because there are SO MANY! (Also Milkvan parallelling all the platonic/dead ships)

7. Mileven being bones. We have nothing that shows their actual, deep love they’re ”supposed to have”. We don’t know what Mike loves about El and what El loves about Mike. We don’t know what makes them a compatible match romantically. We only know things that don’t make them compatible: El feeling the need to lie to Mike, Mike feeling embarrassed of his nerdy self with El, El feeling unloved by Mike, Mike feeling inferior to El…

6. The desert scenes. The triple take ofc, but also the car roof top convo with Will (jancy parallell). Will is talking about how it’s scary to say how you really feel because what if they don’t like the truth. And Mike NODS. If the truth was that he loved El exactly like El wanted, El would like that truth. So what is the truth Mike is worried that El doesn’t like…?

5. Mike’s monologue. He had to be pushed by Will to open his mouth. He lied about him loving her at first sight. He copied the t-shirt part from Eddie. He kept saying she’s his superhero which El doesn’t wanna be. He didn’t include anything personal about El and their relationship after the t-shirt thing… Also El didn’t seem to like what she heard and their love didn’t save the world. And they didn’t even talk after it. And while filming it they didn’t focus on just the couple (like they did with byler in s2 shed scene) and they let Finn improvise as if it wasn’t that important (as important as the van scene…)

4. Mike would be so poorly written if he wasn’t into Will and I don’t think the Duffers would just ignore his character. Also all the lip glances and heart eyes wouldn’t make sense.

3. Byler/Milkvan contrast. When Will was gone and they found his ”body”, Mike heard Will breathing in a radio channel and believed he was alive. He didn’t rest for a second, he did everything he could to find him. When he thought El was dead, he didn’t go looking for her, even tho a couple times he actually saw her. Also in s3 when Milkvan had a fight, Max said Mike will be crawling back to her begging for forgiveness in no time. Instead Mike laid on a sofa and ate and complained. When Byler had a fight… well we all know what Mike did then.

2. Mike and Will’s relationship has always been different from other friendships. They’ve said it themselves (”pls don’t tell the others, they wouldn’t understand”, ”Hawkins is not the same without you”, ”you make her me feel better for being different”). Also their scenes together have always been a big deal (van scene took an entire day to film, crazy together was written before s1 was even filmed) and they are shot in a really romantic way (music, lighting…)

1. In the beginning of s3, Will said to Joyce that he’s not gonna fall in love. That made his arc about romance. We know now that he already fell in love, but he doesn’t believe it’s requited. If s5 goes from ”i don’t think he loves me back” to ”he doesn’t love me back” we get literally nowhere and the entire storyline (since s1) would be useless and waste of time and money. They wouldn’t make Will suffer 4 seasons and then suffer some more. So believe me when I say it goes ”I don’t think he loves me back” to ”He does love me back!”

I wish you all a very merry byler endgame in s5! 💚

[sarahivess]

60 questions to ask the Duffers if Byler isn’t endgame

Thank you @merth-or-nothin for the help!

1. Why emphasize so much on the strong “Friends don’t lie” in the very first episode of the show, showing Will couldn’t even lie to Mike, only for him to lie to Mike for the first time in the second to last episode of the second to last season?

2. Why did Mike and El such a short build up before getting together? If they were meant to be endgame, why not build them slowly, so the audience could be invested in the development of the relationship?

3. Why were Mike and El separated every single season?

4. Why do Mike and El fight so much when they’re together? They barely have any cute scenes at all when they’re dating.

5. Why did El refer to Mike as "her first boyfriend?"

6. If she was meant to only date (then marry) Mike, why draw attention to the fact that he's the only boy she's dated?

7. What was the purpose of El asking Mike if he'd be like her brother in s1? Why give them a familial association?

8. In season 4, why is it revealed that Will is in love with Mike as Mike's relationship with El is eroding?

9. Why make a point to show the audience Will loves Mike the way he wants to be loved, while El makes him feel like a random nerd?

10. Why have Will in the background of every single Mileven scene (except for their bedroom fight) in the entire S4, making the audience to root for Will?

11. Why have Will love Mike at all?

12. Why bring Will into Mike and El's relationship? If Mike doesn't feel the same way, it's a waste narratively and it's anticlimactic.

13. Why did Mike change so much between seasons 2-3 without any perticular reason? And no, it wasn’t just puberty. That change made Mike go from being one of the most loved characters to one of the most hated ones.

14. Why frame Mike and Eleven’s relationship in S3 as unserious and unhealthy?

15. Why make everyone go against their relationship and why break them up as early as in the beginning of the second episode of S3?

16. Why empathize so much on El in EP3 and her independence, making us (the audience) feel genuinely happy when she breaks up with Mike and frame the breakup scene with light-hearted humor and comedy?

17. Why make Will and Mike’s first fight scene in the show dark and angsty? And making it a huge contrast to Mike and El’s comedic breakup scene.

18. Why make Max say “he’ll come crawling in no time begging for forgiveness” to El, which was true, but he didn’t come crawling back to El. He went to Will’s house, begging for forgiveness.

19. Why spend SO MUCH time on the Byler scenes and putting so much effort in them so they’ll look intimate? It’s such a contrast to Steve and Dustin’s scenes for example which is almost always comedic.

20. Why have so MANY Byler scenes at all?

21. Why have “tender emotional music” in almost all of the Byler scenes in S4?

22. Why make Will even confess behind El’s name instead of just confess himself and having Mike rejecting him right away? Why drag it out all the way to the very final season?

23. Why spend an entire day filming the van scene if it wasn’t that important anyway? If Will is just ending up getting rejected anyway?

24. Why the whole painting plot?

25. Why so many parallels with Jopper, Jancy and Lumax?

26. Why the very same soundtrack when they became friends again as when Lucas and Max became friends “On the bus”?

27. Why is Finn describing Mike’s story arc for both season 3 and season 4 as “Mike is trying to be a normal teenager”, “Mike is trying to be as normal as possible” and “He’s trying to keep on a normal path” why so much focus on Mike trying to be normal?

28. Why spending two seasons on Mike trying to say the word “love” to his girlfriend? Isn’t that a kinda boring arc for someone who’s just having bad self esteem because of his parents loveless marriage?

29. Why does the whole cast and even the Duffers always so secretive and giddy and smiley every time Byler gets brought up if it’s just another sad tragic unrequited love story?

30. Why having Will say “I’m not gonna fall in love” with such a heartbreaking tone and then end up making him not get the boy he’s in love with and has been since the very beginning?

31. Why put so much effort in the set design to queer code Mike (as in rainbows, shirtless men, monsters with muscles, the word BOY in the bg, multiple closet imagery, even a big sign towards the closet saying “One way” if it meant nothing or was just weird coincidence’s?

32. Why the triple take? What was the point of that?

33. Why filming and editing the last scene of S3 emphasizing that Mike is going to miss Will more than El? (Him looking back at Will’s house, then it cuts to Will, then it cuts back to Mike who walks up to his mom and hugs her with a heartbroken look on his face)

34. Why make El say in the letter “I think there’s someone Will likes, cause he has been acting weird” but all we see in s4 is Mike acting weird?

35. Why make Mike being able to hug everyone except for Will, when he could hug him just perfectly in s3?

36. Why make Mike treat Will differently than his other friends?

37. Why make Mike and Dustin have the same look on their faces as they watch Will and Max dance with other people and then after that Mike looks upset until El shows up?

38. Why is The Duffers so “hushy hushy” about Byler at all? If it was obvious it’s unrequited why not just clear that shit up because they KNOW they’ll get a lot of backlash if it turns out it was a big queer bait all along.

39. Why start to build up and hint at Will’s love for Mike from the very first episode and make it canon in the second to last season?

40. Why so many coded talks which easily could be interpreted differently? Like Karen’s “I want you to know you can talk to me, I don’t want you to feel like you have to hide anything from me”, Ted’s “See what happens?” About Will’s disappearance (as in see what happens if you’re queer? You get abducted, killed etc) and Ted’s “our son with a girl?”

41. Why make Mike NOD in the scene when Will talks about how difficult it can be to open up about something the other person may not like to hear?

42. Why make Will having to remind Mike of the painting and his coded speech before Mike can say it? Why could he only say it the moment El was about to die?

43. Why make it look like Mike doesn’t want to kiss El by removing her hands away from him (3.01) and not reciprocating, not kissing back with eyes wide open looking confused in 3.08? Why frame him like he isn’t interested in girls at all? (Princess Daphne, Phoebe Cates, Max etc.)

44. Why never show us Mike’s pov?

45. Why SO MUCH effort in flashbacks during the entire S4 except for the monologue when El only remembered one single moment with Mike? Why did she had so many with Max but only one with Mike?

46. The ending scene in S4. WHY put them in couples when they could just have made them stand together all of them instead?

47. Why does it look like El isn’t talking to Mike at the end of S4? Why does she look annoyed at first and THEN sad when she finds the bottle under her bed which reminds her of Max?

48. Why SO MUCH yellow and blue coding when it comes to Will and Mike? Even their colors of their clothes are almost always blue and yellow as well.

49. Why make Mike nervous every time Will is close to him in S4 or accidentally touches him?

50. Why make Mike say “we’re friends” to Will twice when both him, Will and the audience clearly knows that already?

51. Why associate the word “crazy” with “love” and then make the “crazy together” scene?

52. Why having Mike saying “it was the best thing I’ve ever done” about meeting Will but then having him say his life didn’t start until he met El?

53. Why did Mike’s words work for Will in S2 (making him being able to communicate) but didn’t for El (not until she looked over at Max)?

54. Why write the lines for Will “We could just play DnD for the rest of our lives” and “Not possible” about him joining another party?

55. Why make Mike look at Will’s lips so much? Why the flirtiness in the bedroom scenes in S4? They could easily have remade those scenes if that wasn’t intentional.

56. Why all the classic romantic interruptions in season 4 which we’ve seen plenty of times in the show between “more than friends”-couples earlier?

57. Why make such a HUGE contrast between El’s reaction to being without Mike and Will being without Mike in S3? (El did a high five with Max while Will cried and destroyed Castle Byers)

58. Why make Mike say “Hawkins isn’t the same without you” to only WILL and not to El? Why does Mike not have any problems opening up to Will but only to El?

59. Why couldn’t Mike say the full reason why he and El had their fight in 4.03?

60. Why have so much hints and clues in the show that Byler is endgame so it’s possible to make 300+ pages slideshows, hours of long videos with proof of Mike being gay, if everything is just unintentional or “made up”?

[kedreeva]

Honestly, I don't think Steve even noticed what he did or didn't feel or what he was or was not actually lacking in his parents until post-Nancy. He's exactly the sort of person who doesn't think about something unless he has to. I'm NOT saying he's stupid, just that literally he does not think about things he thinks aren't worth thinking about, and I genuinely do not think he thinks his parents are worth thinking about unless it's to plan around them.

"My dad's a grade-A asshole" and Steve worrying about getting in trouble if his dad finds out what he's done is in direct opposition to his willingness to do the thing in the first place, if he thinks about his father beforehand. "My parents are not home" and "my parents are somewhere else" are separate thoughts, and what matters to the plans Steve wants to make is the latter, and I'm not entirely sure he recognizes the former as a problem. His parents not being home is the solution to 'my dad's an asshole.' His parents not being home is a point in his favor, not a problem

And honestly, why would it be a problem then? Season 1 Steve has parents he prefers to be absent, and friends that are quicker to sneer and bite than they are to smile. Season 1 Steve, prior to getting sense literally knocked into him, is concerned about getting in trouble rather than worrying about his gf having just lost her best friend. Season 1 Steve takes one look at Jonathan in Nancy's room and his first reaction isn't to worry about Nancy's well-being, not yet. His first reaction is to rile up his sharp-teethed friends and go be destructive. Before Nancy scolds him and Jonathan hits him and an entire fucking monster drops through the ceiling and tears his paradigm of the world apart, I don't think it really occurred to Steve that things should (or even could) be different. Parents are just like that, right? Everyone's parents and family and friends are just like that. Right?

Except, then he's seeing what Jonathan and Nancy will do for Jonathan's little brother, how all the kids stick together and fight for each other. What Joyce will do for her son, what Hopper will do for her kids, for the small, strange girl they're saying has superpowers. The way Dustin's mom loves him, even if she's a little oblivious. How even the parents who know nothing, like the Sinclairs and the Wheelers, actually do love their kids; it's not a show. They're not in the news, they have no reputation to keep up, there's no one to impress. They just genuinely love their children. This friend group genuinely cares about each other. even when they are at odds with each other, they care. Absolutely mindblowing to the kid who couldn't get his family or friends to give a shit about anything, including him.

And I think he gets a bigger inkling about it all at the start of season 2, when he gets more involved in the whole group, but I think the moment he realizes he's got to protect Max from her family that it really clicks about his own family. She's scared about what her brother will do, and Steve remembers being scared about what his father would do. And it's one thing to kind of Know that your parents are not good, and be in the middle of coping with it, but it's another to see that reflected in someone else and realize oh.

And I think that's.... I think that directly leads to what's going on with Steve in season 3. He mentions his dad wanting to teach him a lesson and we can assume it's about Having A Job and Work Ethic etc, and maybe it is, but I think no small part of it is also that Steve got more defensive toward his parents about them being bad parents. I think instead of just being mad that he wasn't gonna get his way with them like in S1, or cranky they were gonna punish him for doing Teenage Stuff he thinks he should get away with, that he was actually a little hurt that his parents were more like Max's family than like Dustin's or Will's or even Lucas or Mike's. And I can imagine his dad reacting the way Entitled Parents act when their kid figures them out, and saying well if we're so terrible how about you experience what it is like without us, so you can see how much you owe us for everything we do for you.

and he ends up at Scoops Ahoy, because his dad is trying to teach him a lesson, but it's NOT a lesson about work ethic, it's a lesson about how to be grateful for the things his parents give him, as if taking care of their child was a favor that Steve now needs to pay back.

Except the lesson he learns is that he can pick his family. The lesson he learns is that his family sucks. And yeah, the lesson he learns is that he hates the way things have gone, he hates the big empty house, he hates the distance his parents put between them (while simultaneously being grateful for it because he doesn't want to be close to THEM, he wants to be close to better parents). And his reaction to that isn't to want better things with his family. Maybe if he was someone else, but this is the boy who doesn't think about things that aren't worth thinking about, and it's not worth thinking about something that will never happen. His parents will never be those people and, frankly, he doesn't want them to be. It's too late. Cut that loss.

His reaction, rather, is to imagine having a new family, one where no kids are going to be alone because there will be more than one of them, a family where no kids are treated like Max was, or untreated at all like he was, because he'll be there for them. That's something he can think about as long as he likes.

[wibble-wobbegong]

S4 Wheelclair

Let’s talk S4 Lucas and Mike.

I really, truly do believe that people undermine their importance to each other because it isn’t given the same emphasis as Mike/Will or Lucas/Max. They aren’t in love so that’s a hard comparison to make, but they are best friends. Actual best friends. Dustin literally says that Mike and Lucas are closer than he is with either of them, and he’s right!

I’m gonna be covering their history, Lucas’ POV, Mike’s POV, and then their potential S5 arc. This is a very broad analysis, so I won’t be going into the grainy details in this post, or else it would be MASSIVE lmao

History

Most people are probably familiar with this, but I feel like I need to point out some things that often get glossed over. Keep in mind this is a brief summary.

In S1, there are two major things established about Mike and Lucas:

- They’re very close friends

- They’re both incredibly determined to find Will

We see them established as close friends through small things like Lucas’ teasing, having Lucas be the one to pull Mike away after the pissing incident, Dustin suggesting that Lucas is jealous, and their argument being resolved.

There is a ton of emphasis places on Mike and Lucas’ friendship in S1. One of the bigger of the side plots is this fight that Lucas and Mike get in because they’re disagreeing on the best way to find Will.

For Mike, when Lucas started going off on his own, I think there was a huge fear of losing Lucas too. We talk about how Mike only apologizes to Will, but he reaches out and apologizes to Lucas with that handshake. He does so teary-eyed, hoping Lucas will forgive him.

I think Lucas was frustrated with Mike because he doesn’t understand why Mike would do things that seem stupid when they have to be looking for Will. Lucas’ perspective isn’t stressed as much, but he was happy to shake Mike’s hand and move past their issues.

There are also moments like the end of S1 where we see Mike throw himself on top of Will and then Lucas throwing himself on top of both of them. That’s something else that connects Mike and Lucas, which nobody else really seems to have except the Byers family.

Mike’s relationship with Will is something we see heavily because y’know. He’s in love with Will. However, there’s also a fair amount of emphasis placed on Lucas’ relationship with Will. We see Lucas’ determination to find Will, we see them being close in S2 and S3 through their hugs and teasing Mike together. Lucas, Mike, and Will were put together for a reason.

In S3, there’s a lot going on for them. Firstly, Lucas was trying his hardest to be supportive of Mike. Yes, Mike was putting on a show and trying to win over Lucas’ approval by acting like a Straight Man, but Lucas didn’t know that. He was there for Mike and he tried to help him through his relationship problems with El.

From Lucas’ perspective, he saw one of his best friends struggling with his new relationship and was just trying to help. He and Mike were the only ones going through these sorts of problems, as Mike was trying to follow in Lucas’ footsteps in some ways.

From Mike’s, he was trying to put on a show in front of Lucas and Will — his closest friends at the time. He was trying to act as much of a typical Heterosexual as possible, and he was very much so seeking Lucas out to do this. He spent a lot of time looking to Lucas whenever he would act like an asshole because he was trying to be like him (not that Lucas is an asshole, but they were both trying to grow up and is resulted in them acting like dicks sometimes).

Essentially, Lucas and Mike are very, very close friends and we saw them heading down the same path in S3. They were as close as ever and their dynamic hadn’t changed much, but rather than butting heads they were much more agreeable with each other as Lucas tried to empathize with Mike’s struggles.

Lucas and Mike are best friends and their relationship is given a lot of emphasis considering their platonic nature (in comparison to their other weighted relationships being romantic).

Lucas’ POV

Lucas’ POV is something I find interesting, because we talk a lot about Mike feeling alone, but Lucas was also alone in his situation. When Lucas continued down the path of being normal, Mike started backtracking and returned to being a nerd and a freak. It left Lucas somewhat stranded, and when we have that confrontation between them in 4x01, Lucas was appealing to things he knows Mike understands. He says he’s tired of being bullied and that he’s tired of being made fun of by girls, which is something that is established that happens for Mike was back in S1 (he faces a lot of bullying and girls are grossed out by him).

For Lucas, he’s trying to be normal to escape the severe racism he faces as a black kid in the middle of Indiana, which was only made worse by being a nerd. Lucas goes on a journey in Lucas On the Line (LOTL) that heavily describes his experience with racism and his love for Max. He also wants Max to come back, hence the, “tired of being made fun of by girls.”

Something important from LOTL is Lucas getting to be friends with other black boys and seeing these qualities that are beautiful and unique in people like him, which was something Lucas definitely needed in his life. That’s not something Mike would see, as Mike only saw them as jocks.

These aren’t the same things Mike is going through, Lucas doesn’t know what’s going on with Mike, but he knows that Mike can at least understand why he’s doing this. He and Mike were on the same page in S3, and suddenly Mike is backtracking and is no longer trying to grow up and be accepted by the world. Lucas and Mike aren’t on the same page anymore, and Lucas feels alone and abandoned. We see it when he realizes he’s been replaced by his little sister.

Another thing in LOTL, Lucas gets annoyed by Mike thanks to his sudden rise in assholery after the Byers moved. Specifically, it’s around the start of school that the conflict between them starts to kick in a little. Mike’s dealing with stuff he won’t tell anyone, but Lucas doesn’t understand that and he doesn’t have to. As far as he knows, both he and Mike lost Will and they’re both affected similarly. He thinks this is about El. Lucas has never really been a fan of Mike’s relationship with El, and this is definitely adding onto that.

At the end of the season, we see Lucas complete his arc of realizing that he’d rather be a freak than a raging psychopath normal. He’s accepted that the life he thought would be good for him, that would make him happy, is one that ultimately rejects him and he learns to reject it in return. He no longer holds this need to be normal, which is important because Mike was trying to not be normal at the beginning of the season too. It’s what their conflict was about.

Mike’s POV

Mike’s perspective on his relationship with Lucas at this point seems a lot like he’s having an internal war. He’s finally learning to embrace himself and making steps to accept his sexuality, and in accordance he’s playing DND and hanging out with outcasts, which is the exact opposite of what he was trying to do in S3. However, there are some things that suggest that there’s still a part of him that wants to be like Lucas.

Like, I’m their confrontation, the way Mike reacts shows a lot more reluctance and that what Lucas is saying hits closer to home. He’s not being argumentative, showing that same complacency he had in S3 that differs from his stubbornness with Lucas in S1 & 2.

On the table at the cafeteria, we also see this book which talks about learning how to play sports. That doesn’t make any sense for any of the Hellfire Club members. Except for Mike. That part of Mike that still wants to be like Lucas has him reaching out to learn about sports and how to play. He’s torn right now.

As established in S1 & S3, Lucas’ approval in regards to Mike’s acceptance with his sexuality means a lot. Lucas was the one who initially pushed him to consider El as a romantic interest, the one to point out that girls don’t like him, and the one to walk him through a lot of relationship problems in S3. Assuming LOTL is canon, we also know that Lucas thought Mike was the “worst person to be around” right as school started after Mike’s isolation. Mike’s reaction to the move was deeply rooted in his feelings for Will, and I personally think this when he really came to terms that he was in love with Will (not necessarily the first time he realized he had feelings, though. I think that was the S2 monologue). Lucas reacting like that to Mike’s post-isolation probably felt like a rejection in some way.

Mike also doesn’t really understand the depth of Lucas’ need to be normal. Mike can never have the experience Lucas has. Mike won’t be able to realize that Lucas wants to be around other black people and people who will help him become normal/popular because of his experience with racism. That creates a divide, because Mike doesn’t see the motivation to become normal beyond what he and Lucas have in common, which is being bullied and being made fun of by girls. Mike is realizing that he doesn’t care about girls, though, and the bullying itself never seemed to bother Mike much. He only ever got upset when it came to his friends being targeted.

Games and being an outcast and DND are all important to Mike’s journey of self acceptance, but more importantly Eddie was important to Mike’s journey. Lucas didn’t seem to get along with Eddie, which was something that made it even harder for Mike to be on the same page as Lucas. Eddie’s heavy queer-coding (no not steddie) sets him up as a role model for Mike in a lot of ways. Mike is seeing someone like him be completely, honestly himself. Zero shame. That was something Mike needed in order to move towards accepting his sexuality.

At the end of the season, Mike has gotten over El. He’s ready to truly give up on being normal, just like Lucas has.

S5 Predictions

As for S5, I think Lucas and Mike are both starting off on the stance that they’ve finally given up on being normal.

Lucas thought Mike had accepted being an outcast already, but he doesn’t know about Mike giving up on trying to be straight.

Mike doesn’t even know that Lucas is against conformity now.

I think we’re gonna be getting a reconciliation arc between them in S5. Especially considering that we’re returning to S1 dynamics, I’m hoping we’ll get S1 callbacks as well. I think we’re gonna get a scene of them really talking it out; Lucas admitting that he was wrong, and that he’s sorry for leaving DND behind while Mike apologizes for not being a good friend. I hope that leads into a coming out scene between Mike and Lucas.

Mike coming out to Lucas is the ideal, in my opinion. Lucas is so heavily tied to Mike trying to be straight and he’s sought Lucas’ approval of that straightness, so for Mike to come out to him and be accepted would be the best way to satisfy Mike’s acceptance of his sexuality in words.

For Lucas, I want that conversation to lead to him getting his best friend back. He spent a lot of S4 feeling alone, and almost all of pre-S4 as well. Lucas deserves to have his friend back, for Mike to bring him back into the party (I know he never technically left but emotionally…). I need for Lucas to feel like he hasn’t been abandoned, that he hasn’t been replaced.

Lucas and Mike need to really accept each other, and I think their arc will play heavily into that idea in S5.

bywheelclair hug to end the post :) these three make me wanna bawl like a BITCH bro

[grapesodatozier]

apologies as always for how incoherent I get when talking about mileven lmao but I’m having thoughts about them again and how important mike is to el, and how consistently there for her he is, and how that plays into st4 vol 2 especially.

as soon as mike meets her, he’s listening to her. he doesn’t tell her it’s weird when she says no to closing the door, he finds an in between and asks her if it’s okay with her before walking away. he spends 353 days listening for her, and reminding her that he’s there for her whenever she’s ready. he listens in s3 and thinks over what she said, and even in the midst of all this when she’s hurting or in trouble he shows up for her and defends her against flayed billy and holds her when it’s over and she’s exhausted, then apologizes and encourages her to be her own person and pursue what makes her happy, while making clear that he wants to be there with her when she does. he pays attention, and he remembers what happened when el turned herself to dust to save them all in s1 so he stands up for her in s3 when she won’t stand up for herself bc no one else there (except lucas, who also comes through for el in a big way) understands what el has been through and how far she’ll push herself for others bc she feels like it’s all on her. mike again is there for her in s4, crossing half the country to prove that he’ll always be there for her.

and to me that’s the crux of his speech to her. el’s series-long arc, to me, is about guilt and feeling solely responsible and alone. so it’s so powerful to me that she tells brenner he’s at fault, not her, and at the end of that she has mike right there, who led a multi-day, endless search across the desert for her, showing her she’s never doing anything alone anymore. but, naturally, when faced with the stress of seeing max being hurt, she slips back into the guilt and gets incredibly overwhelmed (especially bc she has henry constantly blaming her), so what helps her get through is mike. and to me it’s not even really about the “I love you,” to me it’s about the “I’m right here” and the “i can’t lose you” and “I need you to fight.” that’s what it’s always been about. when el is faced with all this pressure and is falling back into that place where she thinks it’s all on her, when she’s feeling powerless and alone and immense guilt, mike is there to say “this is not all on you, I’m right here, I’m always gonna be right here, you’re never alone in doing this anymore.” and to me, that’s what that scene is all about. he says I can’t fight this the way you can but I’m here for you and I always will be. please come back to me. and she does! she always comes back to him like he always comes back to her 💕

there’s a beautiful children’s book I love about grief, and in it one of the characters has a huge block she has to drag around, and her new friend comes up to her and asks her to hang out, and she says “maybe tomorrow?” bc she doesn’t feel she can move the block or let go of it. and over the course of the book, the new friend keeps coming back, and listens, and helps the grieving character pull the block until she can talk about her grief, and the block gets smaller. it doesn’t go away, and it’s still hers, but her new friend helps her with it and stays with her and it gets smaller. and it just makes me cry all the time bc like…that’s what love is!!!!

and that’s what mike does for el. el has gone through so much terrible shit, but mike is always there to listen to her and help her carry it. he never stops waiting for her, he never stops writing to her, he never stops looking for her, he’s always there at the end of each season to listen to her.

and we hear from mike that el still thinks it’s all her fault, but she told mike she feels that way!! that is a huge step!! even if she does still feel solely responsible at this incredibly low point, she knows that she can share that feeling with mike. a part of her knows she’s not alone even in the moments she feels most alone bc mike always shows up for her and listens to her. when visiting max in the hospital, el leans on mike. even in her darkest moments of isolation and guilt, she knows instinctively that she can lean on mike.

and that’s where their relationship is for me. in every single time they say to each other, “I’m here.”

[aemiron-main]

concept: mike and his superman fixation + s5 mike gets carried by Will (Will being Superman) the way that Superman always carries Lois Lane except it’s ‘The Death of Lois Lane’ from the 1979 Superman and from other Superman comics and Mike is dead in Will’s arms.

LIKE ALL OF THESE SCENES AND EL IS WONDER WOMAN IN THAT ONE SCENE AND WILL BLAMES HIMSELF FOR IT AND THESE NEXT PARTS EXCEPT ITS WILL AND MIKE IN THE UPSIDE DOWN AND EL AS WONDER WOMAN

and then in his grief, Will goes alone to fight vecna while leaving El with Mike. and before he leaves El with Mike, he unknowingly revives Mike with his powers while holding onto him, but he still thinks Mike is dead so he a.) feels like he’s lost a large part of his will to live/one of the biggest people who makes him feel like he’s not a mistake and b.) he’s weakened from inadvertently using his powers to revive Mike, so by the time he shows up to Henry, he’s both mentally/emotionally weakened and physically weakened. El, trying to convince Will not to go, pleading with him, because he’s her brother and she loves him. Will, staring at her with grief and a deep pain in his eyes and just giving her the saddest smile ever before he goes, a smile that tells her how much he loves her, his sister, and how much he loves Mike but also how devastated he is and how he’s going to fight vecna BECAUSE he loves El and he’s already lost Mike, he can’t lose her to Vecna too and so he makes his way to Vecna’s mindscape.

And then Mike wakes up and El is just absolutely distraught and crying and has to choose between staying with Mike and trying to keep him alive vs going after Will and she didn’t want to choose but she knew it would destroy Will if Mike was left to die because she just WATCHED IT destroy him because Will ALREADY thinks Mike is dead and then Mike gets up and starts chasing after Will even though he’s still badly injured despite still being alive/revived.

And Mike and El both show up in vecna’s minds or or wherever to help Will at the last minute, right as Vecna’s getting to swill/Will’s losing the fight. Will’s face is absolutely covered blood from using his powers and he’s totally exhausted and a small part of him wants to give up especially because he thinks Mike is dead.

And when Will sees Mike. And El. And that’s the last push that he needs to absolutely obliterate Henry, because if he can’t do it for himself, he CAN do it for the people he loves.

And as he does, as he kills Henry’s sorry ass, as that connection is severed, he collapses onto the ground and Mike, who’s been bolting across Vecna’s mindscape with El towards Will and Henry the whole time, finally makes it to Will and grabs him as he collapses and they collapse together especially because Mike’s still badly injured and shouldn’t have been running and as they collapse together, Vecna’s mind lair collapse too, and so does the upside down, and they find themselves in the rubble of the library, where the four gates met.

And at the same time, we get a parallel to the dustin-mike-El hug from s1 except it’s El draped on top of Mike and Will, having leapt on top of them to protect them when Vecna’s mindscape started collapsing, just absolutely devastated and sobbing and praying that they’re not dead and begging them to wake up.

And that’s how the rest of the group finds them. Lucas and Dustin having to pry an absolutely hysterical and bloody and bruised and covered in rubble El off of a completely limp Will and Mike, Hopper running over and grabbing El from Lucas and Dustin, while Lucas and Dustin try to see if Mike and Will are actually alive, and then Joyce and Jonathan and Nancy and Steve and Robin get there too and it’s a whole shitshow and they’re just trying to pull Will and Mike out of the rubble and make sure they’re alive. Hopper, leaving El in the care of Lucas and Dustin and making his way over when Jonathan calls for him, and ends up carrying an unconscious Will again like he did back in the hospital s2. Steve, carrying Mike because Nancy begged him to (he would have done it anyway but she was already asking him the moment he showed up) because she couldn’t do it herself and sure, she hasn’t been the best sister, but she never wanted this to happen.

Mike, waking up before Will in the hospital and we get our return of the king “Sam (Mike) and Merry and Pippin (Lucas and Dustin) and El and everyone/the rest of the fellowship show up to Frodo’s room when he wakes up at the end of ROTK” scene except Will is Frodo and while Lucas and Dustin are basically jumping on Will’s bed, Mike, still injured and only recently awake and probably shouldn’t be out of bed, stares at Will from the doorway and Will immediately bursts into tears.

Timeskip and Will and Mike leaving Hawkins, like Bilbo and Gandalf leaving Middle Earth for Valinor at the end of ROTK.

Many thoughts.

[mlchaelwheeler]

Ok so after reading this post by @wibble-wobbegong it got me thinking about how the Duffers said S5 would be returning to the "group dynamics of S1," as well as the fact that Will is going to be central to the plot, similar to S1, except he won't be offscreen for most the season.

Looking at the kids' dynamic from S1, they were trying to save Will (using El) while Joyce and Hopper went into the actual Upside Down to do so. Within the kids' group, there was a lot of tension between Mike and Lucas early on, as they disagreed on the best course of action to find Will: Lucas thought they should go straight to the gate to get Will back, while Mike thought they needed to follow El's lead in order to stand a chance at surviving the dangers between the party and Will ("we're no use to Will if we're dead-- she's a dangerous weapon!").

If we apply this same dynamic to their group in S5, it kind of still works. Except this time, Max is in Will's place, as she's "missing"-- her mind/soul is trapped in Vecna's mindscape. El would be in the place of Joyce/Hopper from S1, since she's the only one (so far) with the ability to enter Vecna's mindscape and find Max to physically bring her back. If Mike, Lucas, and Dustin stay in their original roles from the S1 dynamic, that puts Will in El's role from S1. He has the connection to Vecna/the Upside Down, so even though he isn't able to physically go get Max back (like El can), he can use his connection to distract Vecna from Hawkins, buying time for El to get in and fight Max (like what the older teens did with the demogorgan in S1).

Like S1, I could see this leading to a lot of tension between Mike and Lucas again, with Will in the middle this time. Lucas will argue that they need to go straight to a gate (and maybe even into the Upside Down) to get Max back. He loves her so much, so obviously he's going to stop at nothing to get her back. However, Mike knows the depth of Will's connection with Vecna, and he might be more on the cautious side (less confrontational) this season. Like S1 with El, Mike may be focused more on helping Will first before rushing into a plan to help Max.

This could lead to a lot of tender byler moments, in which Mike checks up on Will, making sure he's ok, despite the fact that they're all in danger. Bonus points if Will gets separated from the party in some way, only to return and save Mike from near death, just like El did at the quarry in S1. This could be the big emotional reunion™️ of the season, where they both finally break down and admit their feelings. The brief time in which Will is separated from the group could also be when Lucas and Dustin begin to notice Mike's feelings-- because if we're being honest, Mike's feelings are blatantly obvious to everyone except himself.

Anyways, returning to S1 dynamics but having Will as the focus (and onscreen for the entire season this time!) will likely lead to scenes with the whole original party for a lot of the season, but this time, Mike and Will are both going to be very obviously pining for each other.

[quercus-queer]

More absurd stranger things “hot takes” from tiktok that I know the intellectuals on tumblr will chuckle at followed by homophobia:

Steve was framed as an asshole in s1 for no reason: he was a douche bag… he used queer as a slur to Jonathan, brought up his abusive father and missing brother as well as his mothers mental health, he was extremely insensitive about Barb, self centered, and slut shamed Nancy for the whole town to see… this starting point is why his development is so good and why everyone is surprised he’s actually a nice person every season afterwards. He wasn’t even right to break the camera, Nancy has agency and the ability to fight her own battles, Steve doesn’t own her. Jonathon and Steve were both assholes and treated as such by the narrative.

Barb gets brought up for no reason and was a bad friend to Nancy: Literally what??? She gets brought up because of Nancy’s guilt for getting her best friend killed??? Barb was a good friend to Nancy. She didn’t want to go to the party but did after Nancy pressured her and told her to “make sure I don’t do anything stupid.” Nancy pressured her to drink, which resulted in her cutting her hand which is why she died. When Barb tried to make sure Nancy didn’t do anything stupid like sleeping with a guy after she’s been drinking, Nancy told her to go home… but she DIDNT. She stayed there to make sure Nancy was okay afterwards and drive her home and ended up dead. Also she wasn’t being clingy because Nancy was “branching out.” Steve was a dick! He was a fucking douchebag hanging around absolute assholes that mocked Barb at every opportunity!!!

Steve’s reaction to Robin coming out was unrealistic: I’ve been seeing comments practically fantasizing about hatecriming gay characters like straight up saying Steve would’ve hit Robin or sneered at her… not even citing the fact Steve used queer as a slur in s1… just wanting homophobia for the vibes… like fuck off it’s not realistic nor is it even in character, Steve’s development includes not being a dick to people different from him

Homophobic reactions to Will and/or Robin coming out: NO CENTRAL CHARACTER IN THE SHOW WOULD HATECRIME OR CALL ANYONE A SLUR. Or even be that weird about it, literally no one. This includes Hopper actually. Joyce, Jonathon, and Hopper have KNOWN Will is gay since s1. Mike, Lucas, and Dustin are Will’s friends and have been dealing with the slurs and bullying Will has faced… they wouldn’t do the same. Robin already came out to Steve. El literally does not know what gay people nor homophobia are unless Jonathon decided to tell her. Nancy is the most likely but she is also too smart for that and rebelling against conformity and her parents lifestyle is her thing. Gay people existed in the 80s!!! And the defining trait of all the characters in the show is that they don’t fit in with society and are outcasts (except for Nancy and Steve… and Hopper) the main theme of the show is unconformity or whatever.

The fucking pronouns thing: They’d just be confused or think you’re stupid, Nancy would probably tell you to get a tutor. Also it is a tv show with monsters who CARES if someone makes a stupid video for the trend. Also again since people forgot, GAY PEOPLE EXISTED IN THE 80s JESUS CHRIST THIS INCLUDES TRANS PEOPLE

Eddie’s bandana means nothing: Nah, the duffers know. Forgetting wills birthday? Bad. However, will also had august 28th as a bday pre-s2 and no other birthdays are ever relevant or even mentioned except for the offhand thing from Suzie. They don’t care about birthdays, character design though? They very much care about that. Eddie is an entirely new character that requires zero continuity… plus he has handcuffs in his room… the show runners know lol. Definitely won’t say anything though because Eddie is gonna die and they don’t want that backlash