#yu suffaid

[starving-and-arting]

“I will. I will always find you. And you won't even know it's me, sometimes.”

• Yu Suffiad is a baddie tho 👀

[super-shapeshifter-showdown]

[nanana-nari]

[a-couple-of-notes]

I said in this post that the showdown with Yu revealed some juicy stuff about how Bells Hells operates separately and together, and after watching it back on YouTube...yeah, I absolutely stand by that. Let's talk about it.

Imogen, Information, and Self-Control

As much as we love to talk about Imogen's moments of rage, or whether or not she'll crack and go ham on the moon, Imogen's actions here remind us that she operates on a baseline of extraordinary self-control. Imogen doesn't blast Yu to bits, even when Yu turns into Imogen to manipulate Laudna. I don't think this is out of character or Laura going easy on a guest PC. I think this is Imogen exerting an iron grip on herself because Yu has information, and Imogen's priority is getting information.

All of Imogen's moves here - starting with knowledge-seeking questions ("What the heck is the Unseelie Court?" [0:18:44]), Mage Handing the door, casting Detect Thoughts, Commanding Yu - are about controlling the situation long enough to get all the information.

If there hadn't been information in the balance, it would have been a very different thing, because then all of Imogen's need for control would have gone to "how to end the fight efficiently." This is what we saw in the fight at the museum and the Deathwish Run.

Chetney and Emotional Distance

Like Imogen, Chetney first digs for information, and he seems to give Yu the most benefit of the doubt. He's either less attuned to Yu's manipulation (constantly telling the party that Yu has told them the truth and isn't attacking anyone), or - more likely - he doesn't care about Yu's manipulation as much as he cares about people not getting killed.

I wonder (though this is pure speculation) whether he's willing to give Yu more leeway because he (thinks he) knows how assassins operate, while being less sure of how Birdie operates. A devil you know situation.

Chetney also comes up with the deal - it's an objective move that neatly resolves the situation but also depends on him not really being attached to either Birdie or Yu. He absolutely offers Birdie up to Yu ("If in a month, you bring the heat, you take her and the item, and we'll see" [1:20:13]). Chetney operates objectively, and his priority is keeping things stable long-term.

Laudna and Emotional Blindness

Where Chetney keeps an astonishing amount of emotional distance and objectivity, Laudna...does not. Other people have already written about Laudna's trust/susceptibility to manipulation and its potential liability to the party, so I just want to add a couple of things here.

First: yes, absolutely, Laudna gets attached fast, and that could lead to dangerous indecisiveness in the future (here, she gives up on deciding and Banes Yu, Fearne, and Birdie). Laudna operates emotionally, according to personal bonds, and her priority is keeping the group together.

However, Laudna is also the only one of Bells Hells willing to call out Yu's emotional manipulation directly. She also gets extremely uncomfortable when Yu turns into Imogen, not being swayed at all. I get the feeling that, on some level, she understands how susceptible she is to this sort of thing, and she hates that it still works.

Orym, Fearne, and the Present Moment

Orym and Fearne act the most aggressively toward Yu, and I think that's for pretty similar reasons. Orym and Fearne do not care about what's going to happen in the future; they don't care about long-term politics or information they can gather or even what this means for the party. Both Orym and Fearne operate in the present moment, according to what is necessary right now.

Fearne's priority is whatever she wants in that moment. This is why Yu can trip Fearne up massively one moment, while hitting a complete block the next. When Fearne is emotionally rattled and doesn't know who to trust, she can't decide on a priority. But the moment she goes, "nope, actually, we can take on the assassins," Yu doesn't have a hold anymore.

Orym's priority is keeping the party safe. This is why he gets so stabby one minute and then de-escalates the next. The moment he and his party are threatened, he'll respond; likewise, the moment things seem to be calming down, he'll honor that.

Ashton and FCG

Ashton's pretty quiet this whole fight. I think that's partly due to Ashton not having a relationship with Yu prior to the reveal (and thus Taliesin stepping back to let the others RP). But it also speaks to Ashton's willingness to go along and support whatever shit the party decides to get into. Ashton, like Orym, operates in the present moment, and their priority is taking care of the party.

FCG is also pretty straightforward. They heal Yu. FCG's priority is helping whoever they can, and they operate as such. Like Laudna, this form of emotional blindness could be (and has been) a strain on the party.

Almost done, folks!

So What? (Or, Applying This to Bells Hells)

So, why did I write all of this, and what can we extrapolate from it?

First, Bells Hells is an extremely fragmented group right now. Everyone - everyone - in this confrontation was going off their own internal priorities. There was no unified party stance, fractured between the need for information (Imogen and Chetney), the emotional turmoil (Laudna and Fearne), and the going-with-the-flow-I-guess-we're-doing-this (Ashton and FCG).

Second, as fascinating as it is that Laudna describes them as family, they're not. They are friendly coworkers who are good at pulling each other through scrapes. See above: the fact that everyone pretty much takes their own course of action regarding the conflict and no one objects/pulls them together means that Bells Hells still need a bunch of time to cohere properly.

Third, though the assertion that "Bells Hells are less violent than the Mighty Nein/other DnD parties" is not true, I do think Bells Hells has a significant investment in information. Imogen is driven by it, Chetney likes to use it, and the rest of the party will follow along as long as no current threat is being posed. This means that if an NPC can give them information, Bells Hells are more likely to try to get it from them than fight straight out.

Fourth, Yu did exactly what I wanted an antagonist PC to do for this party: expose the fractures, blow them open, and make it clear that they need to address them. If we could just get a tiny pause in the lore to do that...

[simplysparrow14]

I love how there are only three accents you can have in the Feywild:

Hoity-Toity (Fearne, Yu, The nightmare king, The sorrowlord)

Irish/Scottish (Oleander Calloway, Lady Elmenore)

Backwoods southern hillbilly (Birdie Calloway)

There are no in-betweens.

[marypenelope]

Oh shit guys I just thought of something

Yu knows about Dancer. Yu was there when FCG found out she was alive and possibly in the city, including the specific area shes possibly in.

Yu could totally track Dancer down and kill and replace her

[smolspoopy]

Behold the shitpost I spent way too much time on

Version without the meme text under the cut!

I,,,,,, idk how it went for meme to full rendering but here we are

[the-most-critical-of-rolls]

this is probably an unpopular opinion because i see most people being very in favour of stabbing yu, BUT what can i say...

yes, the arguments were long and circular. the manipulation was aplenty and the pushing of buttons real shitty -- but they’re a villain and they’ve brought incredible tension to the party. 

they’re sexy and evil and i am honestly very glad they walked out of there and get to be evil another day 🤷

[kobaltsoul]

Erika (to Matt): they’re never going to trust you after this deception

Matt: oh they never trust me

Ashley: nope

Talesin: no

[ruvi-muffin]

" It's a shame, then. My bad. "

THE HOTTEST OOPSIE I EVER DID HEAR, ERIKA HOW DARE YOU

I am but a weak lesbian you can't do this to me !!!

[villainandhero]

Did... Did Erika call her character 'Yassified'?

[fortunesfavours]

hm thinking about the yu/birdie thing and what I think really got on my nerves about the whole scene was that yu Was violent towards them, just through manipulation and psychological harm (especially think orym n shape shifting n continuing to flirt/hold will over him) n the way they acted with laudna n also fearne so the whole “oh they haven’t been violent towards us thing”. Man it might just be my own past shit but seeing people discredit that weight n ignore all that in favour of the stealing thing (when it’s established that ownership with the fey is funny already) n just. Missing some nuance (mostly with a few characters n fandom) n like. Birdie is a whole different situation n I don’t think she should necessarily be trusted especially regarding a complete lack of like. Consideration of weight of actions? If that makes sense. I get it’s a fey thing and such but goin forward I worry still. Erika did really well at balancing that whole situation n of course there’s stuff there with guest vs npc but damn if yu didn’t activate every single self-defence mechanism I had in place

this isn’t neatly written at all and it might be because yu’s manipulation (especially with fearne) really plays on my own past traumas but. Hm. Just thinkin.

[antlereed]

pretty little head

imogen gets some

[a-couple-of-notes]

Thoughts on Yu post c3e29

I want to be clear: if Yu were a real person, I would hate them. They are unequivocally terrible. I've seen some things going around to the tune of "they didn't attack the party, just talked sexily evilly" and "stabbing was an overreaction" and "actually, Birdie seems just as untrustworthy for stealing the crown/making this machine that will definitely have unintended consequences." And let me just say - no. Absolutely not. To run down the list:

"They didn't attack the party, just talked evilly." A number of different people have already covered this, but you don't have to attack people physically to hurt them. Yu constantly gaslights ("I have been forthright with you about most things"), emotionally manipulates (turning into the half-elf man and Imogen, making Fearne doubt her affection for her mother/grandmother, bringing up Delilah, all the circular arguments about trust), and belittles ("you need me, you couldn't survive without me, you couldn't even choose breakfast without me") the party. This is absolutely intentional hurt, much like Saundor and his emotional manipulation of Vex'ahlia in Campaign 1.

"Stabbing was an overreaction." For DnD, with a legacy of stabbing bad things? Not really. In terms of causing yikes-damage to Yu, the only people who try are Fearne (it's Fearne) and maybe Birdie with the sneak attack. Orym does a bunch of damage as well, but mainly wants to knock Yu prone; the damage stacks because Yu keeps succeeding on strength checks. (He also jabs at her back a lot, but those seem to be escalating warnings.) In a world where you have healing spells and long rests bring you back up, the act of stabbing becomes a lot less dire than in real life. It's fiction, y'all!

"Actually, Birdie seems just as untrustworthy." So? Whether or not Birdie has bad intentions or has worked with bad people, this does not change the fact that Yu infiltrated the party, repeatedly lied to them, and then done all the above stuff when Bells Hells confronted them. Or the fact that they're there to kill Birdie, Ollie, and probably Fearne (they did say, "I will end the Calloway line" in their conversation with the Sorrowlord).

Okay. But with all that said: As a character pushing the narrative, Yu is great, and I'm so glad the party didn't kill them.

Again, this is fiction! Yu would be a terrible person in real life, but story-wise, the way they shook up the party is so, so interesting. We got to see Bells Hells confronted with barbs targeted to cause maximum emotional distress! We got to see what they do in the middle of a messy conflict with confusing sides! There were so, so many juicy actions that revealed these characters' lines and priorities, and also really solidified (for me) their actual approach to conflict as a party.

That's great stuff. And the fact that they didn't kill Yu means it's possible they could come back and shake things up again.

It would have been very gratifying if the party had overcome Yu's manipulation and killed her. But it would have been gratifying if Vox Machina had managed to kill Delilah all the way, too. In both cases, I think we got something far more interesting.

[the-most-critical-of-rolls]

also -- and this is 100% JUST my opinion -- i’m not particularly swayed by the “had good intentions but worked with some fucked up people and maybe contributed to/did some bad shit” narrative that birdie has going on rn. 

maybe it’s cause i’ve seen that narrative a lot? and i know it can be effective and well-executed -- and maybe it will be excellent here eventually! but. at the moment i’m much more into someone evil who knows they’re evil and manipulative and just fucking. sticks by that. more refreshing and interesting, at least to me, at least right now. 

[the-most-critical-of-rolls]

i know yu turning into imogen is serious but i’m just imagining them doing a shitty accent imitation to sound like imogen and i’m giggling