#I talk about Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss

[theloganator101]

Helluva Boss is Bad (No Duh)

In all my posts talking about Hazbin Hotel and how it fails at being an enjoyable show, I sometimes mention Helluva Boss in an occasional post or something else. I realized I never really went deep into that show or shared some more opinions on it.

Well that is why I'm making this to lay out my full opinion on Helluva Boss. While there ARE some things in it to make it slightly better than Hazbin, it's still pretty bad in it's own special way. So before I get to ranting, I'm gonna go over what I actually liked about Helluva.

~The few good things I liked~

Starting off, the designs for some of the characters are alright. They look to have had a little more thought behind them than anyone in Hazbin, my favorites being Striker and the Baphomet demons of the Sloth Ring.

I also like how we actually get to EXPLORE the world of this universe, like the characters ACTUALLY go to places that isn't just in the Pride Ring. They go to other rings, they go to earth, they go to different locations beyond the city and their homes. That's at least something Helluva has over Hazbin.

And... I think that's about it. So let's get to the things that I DON'T like about this series. Starting with...

~The Story Sucks~

We all know the story and how it unfolds. It started with a group of Imps wanting to fight the system and opened their own assassination business of going to earth and killing whoever their client wants, only for it to take a one-eighty turn and make it about Stolas and his family drama.

I'm sorry, but that is NOT what I originally followed the series for.

I wanted to see more of IMP doing missions, I wanted to see more of how the main characters bounce off each other, not watch a full grown man cry, bitch, and sing cringy songs into getting what he wants.

And not to mention the side plot with Fizz and Ozzie just ultimately led to nothing and wasted episodes when that time could've been spent on expanding the already big cast. Which then leads into...

~The Characters suck~

No one in this show is likable.

Each and every one of them has done something that just got on my last nerve.

Blitz and how he treats his employees, Moxxie and how his character keeps resetting to zero (And we're not going into him in Unhappy Campers), Millie's a nothing character, Loona's a nothing character.

Verosika's a hypocritical bitch who wants to drag others down with her so she's not the only miserable one, Striker lost his edge as the show went on, Fizz's character was butchered, DHORKS and the Cherubs are just... there to serve as antagonists. And the same can be said for the Sins, Andre should've never existed, Stella was reduced to dumb bitchy wife, Octavia is only a plot device in Stolas' arc.

Oh yeah, and Stolas is the worst.

~Stolas~

This character is such a plight on Helluva Boss.

I already made a post talking about him, it's here if you wanna check it out.

But in all seriousness, Vivzie made a grave mistake in not keeping Stolas as the villain. He's exactly what Blitz is fighting against, a noble blood who sees Blitz's kind as beneath him and can toy with whenever he wants. So to have him as this "Poor ultra victim" whose actions never gets properly acknowledged or receives consequences, clearly contradicts whatever the show was going for.

And this ends up weighing the show down in the process and ends up making things worse for it, including changing the plot to focus on him instead.

So yeah all in all, while Helluva Boss is slightly better than Hazbin Hotel, it's still pretty bad in it's own way.

[yore-donatsu]

Is it October ? Spooky time ? No ! It's time to blow your retinas out with my "xenocosimco omniac raccoon" "fursona" ! 🤣

[crispyliza]

I've got you all figured out fanartists

[tailofalastor]

Oh my god! Amir, Blake, and Christian crashed the Helluva Boss panel to call out Brandon Rogers.

(Edited for higher quality video)

Amir is giving intense 'my husband said no pickles!' energy. Good for him standing up to the gay terrorism from yesterday!

[glitchedcosmos]

Well damn

[birdy-babe]

We finally got the Stolas Works for IMP au…

But at what cost…..

Honestly I usually skipped this trope on AO3 bc it never seemed realistic and it always seemed to change the character’s personality a lil too much - but honestly I fucking LOVE it here. I think the way they made it flow into the story is FLAWLESS and threw me completely off guard. I really, like most people, genuinely believed that this episode would be about Stolas’ divorce court- but no! It was so much better and changed everything in so many ways.

Like I don’t think there’s ever returning from this moment to before- the changes in Blitzo from almost losing Stolas (permanently) without ever speaking his truth, and the terror of Stolas almost losing Blitzo, but ended up losing his daughter instead. IMP almost losing each other- everything about it has severely changed everyone’s characters and the plot line forever- and god am I LOVING IT

I cannot wait to see how they are going to navigate this new roadblock- something that has thrown them all together indefinitely. Will Stolas stay at Blitzo’s permanently? Will Blitzo’s newfound success at IMP hurt their recovery? Will Blitzo even be play with it since it will feel like a betrayal (using Stolas’ sacrifice as a benefit to his company)?

There’s just so much to talk about, I cannot wait to have more time to delve into this episode.

[hbheavensent]

Asmodeus/Fizz

Teehee my blue boy and my second favorite clown :33 My thoughts/reasons for changes below the cut!

I'll start with Ozzie first because I don't even really mind his original design, I just dislike his head looking bug-like and sorta awkward. I DID love his drag fashion style so I wanted to keep most of that. I also wanted to limit his colors a bit to give his look a touch more focus.

In regards to his outfit I wanted to play into a bondage sort of aesthetic with the ribbons. I imagine they shoot out to grab people while also constraining him, adding in some body horror to the whole thing. I was also thinking that he is affectively blind which is apart of his punishment after falling from grace for trying to consort with Raphael repeatedly. He is the fifth to fall just after Mammon does. Something I also want to change is how Succubi come about, rather than being made by Ozzie like how Satan made the Imps, Succubi are a product of his ring and humans becoming more and more lustful. They spawn in at first as opposed to being made and are unable to carry children but can breed with others as long as they carry the child. No "Pure Succubi" has blood related parents. Succubi I also think have a slightly longer lifespan of an average 150 years vs an Imp's 80 years, though they show no signs of aging until they die. Other than that, Lust is really similar to the show.

Ozzie in my version has the best intentions most of the time, his sin is the weakest because it impacts his and others day to day lives the least arguably. Ozzie at his worst is committing adultery and cheating but if he has a partner who is FINE with him being like that? It's no big deal. Not to mention a lot of people in Hell are sex positive, rarely is anyone clutching their pearls about these things. This sort of laxness is what gives Ozzie a skewed perception on the other Sins, sure he understands compulsions because he has them just as strongly but it's not actively ruining his quality of life like it would for Mammon or Belphegor. In this way it's caused a lot of friction between him and the other sins with the exception of Beelzebub, who they only hang out once in a blue moon since she's always busy. Ozzie is also one of the sins who very heavily interacts with the "lower class" of demons, seen as approachable but not in the same way Bee is. He for sure floats above things a bit but he's known to have relationships with just about anyone, often coming back home to just one person. This is where we get into his relationship to Fizz. They're not toxic by any means, Ozzie and him communicate well all things considered. Naturally they did meet through Mammon requesting the sex bots, because frankly Mammon does NOT want to handle any of that and knows Ozzie would.

Through multiple meetings and measurements Fizz/Ozzie started having flings which turned into a more stable relationship. Fizz doesn't mind that Ozzie messes with other people and the power dynamic between them rarely comes into play in their personal lives. Rather, the reason Fizz and Ozzie avoid public stuff is due to Fizz being uncomfortable with other people's observations about them. To Ozzie this is something he's experienced thousands of times. That's the thing though isn't it? Ozzie has had this kind of relationship with a mortal creature over and over again. He's a wonderful partner, supportive and kind- but in 60-80 years when Fizz gets old and dies? How long will it take for Ozzie to forget him? To forget the moments they had?

He's forgotten others, so.. what makes Fizz different?

He's not.

That's where their main conflict comes from, Fizz already feels insignificant unless he's performing and getting that external validation. So much of Fizz is wanting a legacy, wanting people to know him and look up to him. Fizz, at his core, is insecure unless he's in the limelight and peacocking or acting. To know that he is a blip in eons of time to Ozzie and someday that he won't matter to the person he loves most? That sucks. I want his arc to focus on that though admittedly I have some more writing to do there. For Fizz's new outfit I really just wanted to have him.. perform in his bosses colors. Because why would be represent Ozzie on Mammon's stage??? EVER??? Not that he can't have his cannon look/outfits since I borderline changed nothing and I like his design a lot :P

Anyway, here's the lineup as per usual! I'll be adding my four Angel OCs before moving to the Hazbin Hotel side of things :)

[sweet-marigold]

Final 8 pages!!!

And chapter 1 is done!!! I hope you all enjoyed this I’ll start posting chapter 2 soon page by page c:

[aegomonsterfucker]

The Hellaverse antis are breaching my dashboard. Ig they decided to stop using "critical" tags, though they don't seem to have many actual criticisms outside of "show bad". Would actually like to know what they hate about the shows that makes them feel the need to constantly post about it.

Like there's actual criticisms to be made, like with the pacing, or maybe some songs aren't as good as others, or there are some jokes that don't land or just aren't good or will be dated in a few years. The art style isn't everyone's cup of tea and neither is the humor. Idk like we could just have a discussion about it like adults, that would be neat.

[celtrist]

I really want to see a more fucked up version of Charlie in canon. Like, okay, I am a die-hard for sweet bubbly girls in media. But I always see how some people make Charlie actually, oh I dunno... demonic? And it's so refreshing for her type of character. I could honestly see her having low empathy (and we kinda see this with how she handled Angel's situation or even Vaggie's nervousness about taking control on an activity). An exploration of that trait (if it was intended) would be interesting to see for a protagonist, especially when her main goal is about helping others. I would love to see her actually have a level of difficulty in understanding others' feelings from the other residents, sinners, and even her father.

But give her a fucked up side. Not a "she gets more power when she's angey uwu", but a "oh, she's a little fucked in the head". It would give so much to her character that she just doesn't have.

@/murmurmurena (don't wanna bother them so slash there we go) has some fun ideas with Charlie. I highly encourage people to check their stuff out! So many fun dark ideas with her character while also still keeping to her canon personality pretty well! Personally, I think Charlie being a bit more naive to her own messed up traits would work best but her also being aware of these traits can make for some interesting character for her.

THIS FIC, "A Game Between You and I". RIGHT HERE WITH THE FIRST CHAPTER. A bit of spoil for the fic here: but I love how they handled Charlie’s absolute ignorance as to why the idea of Russian roulette is horrifying to Angel Dust. It doesn't feel like her being intentionally malicious or aware that she's the odd man out here. This is also a pretty old fic going by only the pilot, but the point still stands that it was such a fun take for her character!

Charlie is one of my favorite characters in the show in part of the POTENTIAL she could have as being the most bubbly sweetheart character while also being the most messed up character in the show. I can't say I have strong confidence with the show's writing and fully expect them to stick with Charlie being the "nice girl but oh no, don't get her angry or she gets scarwy". Which isn't bad for a character mind you, there's just so much more potential to Charlie outside of that trope, especially when you get into the theories of her either being a doll, Roo's biological daughter, or what have you. And for the MAIN CHARACTER of the show, it would be not only interesting but also bring the spotlight back to her.

There's really no question that the side characters steal the show, particularly all the male characters. If I'm honest, Charlie does not feel like she gets a lot of love from the show itself when she's supposed to be the main character. She feels far more flat compared to the rest of the characters (again, the male cast in this "female-lead" show has more depth than most of the female cast currently. I wouldn't be pointing this tidbit concerning the genders of characters if it weren't for the fact Viv defended Helluva's lack of development with their female cast by saying "Hazbin is a female-lead show and Helluva is a male-lead" and Hazbin ended up with it not feeling female lead (to me) and the male cast just completely stealing the show. I don't normally care about gender stuff, especially since I do personally lean interest towards male characters. But using one show as a defense for poor development of the female characters, and then that show not really holding up with no very interesting well-developed feeling female characters irritates me. It's just very clear that these shows don't seem to care much about the female cast :/)

If you like how Charlie is written that's totally fine. PERSONALLY, I just think they're missing so much opportunity with her character by just making her the standard female character type. I honestly don't have a lot of faith they'll actually do something with Charlie's character though. She's a pretty static character in S1 being the same from start to end. Not changing or learning anything to create any development. What does the end of season Charlie do that start of season Charlie wouldn't do? Fight back? Because we see with the pilot (which is the “first episode”) that Charlie does fight people if pushed like with Katie Killjoy and even Valentino. Static characters can work in media depending on the show or their role. But Charlie is the MC of a show about “bettering one's self”. So to have her as a static with not a lot of strong dilemmas for herself (like we see with Angel Husk Al and even Vox) seems silly. Plus, considering Hazbin is telling a whole story and it's not a fun episodic thing, characters are expected to grow on some level. Or else, what was the point of their hero's journey?

[funhouse-mirror-barbie]

What it should mean to support ALL survivors—Fandom discourse and the depiction of sexual assault in media.

So. Okay.

Below is a video that, in my opinion, is a very well thought out and respectful critique of the writing decisions surrounding Angel Dust’s character and purpose in Hazbin’s narrative.

The author of the video does a great job clearly stating their thoughts and opinions, and put a lot of effort into explaining their reasoning in a concise and easy to understand way.

I really recommend giving it a watch—(TW for discussions of rape, sexual assault and abuse. )

However, one of the most important things about this video though, is that the author, Limus, takes the time to specify that the video is only her opinion, and that she does not want to invalidate the feelings of other people or survivors who like or feel represented by Angel Dust. (More below)

In their conclusion, Limus states, “…If you enjoyed “Hazbin Hotel” and Angel Dust as a character, that’s fine. I don’t want you to walk away from this thinking your opinion is less than mine. People have their own reasons for liking media, and the discourse surrounding this show and the harassment that people receive just for liking it is unacceptable. You can have your reasons for disliking a show, but people can also have their reasons for liking it as well. Everything I have said in this video is in relation to my own personal life…”

I was REALLY glad and really relieved that Limus took the time to specify this, because one of my biggest grievances with the discourse regarding Hazbin’s depictions of sexual abuse, assault and rape, is that I see a LOT of people, both critics and fans, disregarding the experiences and feelings of survivors with opinions opposite to theirs.

Specifically, I saw a LOT of people talking about the portrayal of sexual abuse in Hazbin, and media in general, as if it was something that could be judged as being OBJECTIVELY “good” or “bad”.

And then proceeding to argue with people over their opinions and feelings as if they were in some sort of debate and the other person’s beliefs could be disproven.

This was really frustrating to me, because I’m hyper-aware of how media is extremely subjective especially when it comes to serious topics like sexual assault, violence, substance addiction, abuse, etc. etc.

So, I’m going to talk, in detail, about what I see as a lot of hypocrisy within fandom and critical spaces.

This really started in January of this year (2024) when a trailer (or maybe a leak? Sorry I can’t remember) for Hazbin came out, and a scene from Poison was shown.

There were a lot of people who were really concerned with the way Angel Dust’s abuse was shown in the preview, a good amount of them survivors of sexual abuse themselves, and from there the discourse got pretty out of hand.

Worst of all though, people, both fans and critics, allegedly started demanding “proof” of survivor’s assault from those they disagreed with.

This was very gross behavior, and I don’t care what your opinion on Hazbin Hotel is, NO ONE should have done that. It’s not only incredibly invalidating, but also potentially re-traumatizing.

Seriously. I hope ANYONE who engaged in this behavior, REGARDLESS of if they love Hazbin and think it’s the best thing in the world or if they hate it and think it’s the worst piece of media ever, were able to take a step back and realize how hurtful and inappropriate their actions were. And hopefully grow from that.

What disappointed me the most though was seeing Hazbin’s creator’s reaction to all of this. It was, in my opinion, very hypocritical and set the stage for the sort of harassment that is continuing in the fandom today.

A Disclaimer—this is going to be one of the ONLY TIMES I talk directly about the creator of Hazbin Hotel, Vivienne “Vivziepop” Medrano. I’m doing so because she was engaging directly and openly with this discourse when it was happening, and I think it’s important to talk about her actions and reactions because it provides some context for the background in regards to the ongoing conversations surrounding Hazbin’s SA depictions.

I generally do not like publicly talking about or making judgements on creators as people based on the art they create, because while a creator’s art is almost always influenced by their personality and experiences, it’s not a good way to judge someone’s ENTIRE character. All people are multi-faceted, and the art or media we create usually reflects only part of someone. Additionally, people use art, fiction, and media to explore all kinds of things, including things they would never do or want in real life, and that’s valid and normal. Obviously.

But when a creator publicly expresses an opinion in regards to ongoing discourse, of course people are allowed to discuss it and have their own opinions. Especially when that creator has a lot of fans who look to them as a role-model. Not saying that Vivziepop is responsible for actions of her fans, but when you are a public figure like she is, I do think it’s important to be as mindful as you can about your influence.

With all of that said. Yeah. I was. Incredibly disappointed by Vivziepop’s reaction to this. Because, I actually do agree with a lot of the things she was saying about supporting survivors—

I 100% agree with this. Everyone processes trauma differently, and that should be respected. We should not judge survivors for how they cope or process their trauma.

If this statement was made in response to the all judgement and struggles that survivors generally have to deal with, I would not have any issue with it whatsoever.

But. It wasn’t. Vivziepop said this because people were criticizing Hazbin Hotel—specifically there were survivors who were upset and triggered by scenes from the musical sequence “Poison” that leaked prior to Hazbin’s official release.

Now, obviously, I can’t know her true intent or beliefs. But her bringing all of this up after she had received criticism from survivors about her show leads me to believe that she doesn’t really care about supporting all survivors. Especially since after she said this, she proceeded to dismiss the concerns that several survivors brought to her because “the show hadn’t come out yet”.

To me, this is just hypocrisy.

Now, to be fair. Im also an artist. I understand feeling like your art or story is your baby, and feeling really protective of it. In some ways I was conflicted when all of this was happening back in January, because I get the frustration and hurt that comes with people not liking your art or not giving it a chance.

That can be very disheartening, and definitely feels unfair. I can empathize with Vivziepop in regard to that, because I don’t know how I would handle the amount of criticism her art gets. I’ve had my art criticized pretty harshly online, and it does really hurt. I really can’t imagine how emotionally taxing that is on such a large scale.

But with all of that said, at the end of the day, as creator, especially a creator making something for widespread international audiences, you have to learn how to be okay with the fact that your art, whether it’s music, visual arts, storytelling, or whatever, will not be universally loved. That’s pretty much impossible, and it’s also okay.

And while you obviously don’t have to listen to EVERY bit of criticism you receive, I do think it is vitally important to listen to criticism and concerns when they come from a whole group of people you are trying to represent.

This was Vivziepop’s response to survivors of sexual assault who asked to have their concerns about Angel Dust and the portrayal of his assault also taken seriously:

In my opinion, these replies are all really dismissive. I agree with everything Vivziepop said about survivors who felt represented being spoken over was also wrong. But these are survivors being open about how Vivziepop’s show has already affected them negatively, and the fear that their reactions to and opinions on the show will be, or in some cases—have already been, invalidated and called into question by the Hazbin fandom.

Vivzie’s response to them is that the show hasn’t come out yet, so they are getting upset “preemptively”. It really comes across like their concerns did not matter to Vivziepop, and like it didn’t matter to her that they had already been triggered or felt as if the handling of the scene was fetishistic based on what came out.

She states that her fans are “speaking out on their own experiences and reminding that the scene isn’t out yet”. I’m not denying that some fans do feel represented, but to me, it doesn’t, and didn’t matter if the show hadn’t come out yet.

The full episode can’t magically “take back” the fact that a lot of survivors saw this small clip on its own and it was enough to affect them. And that is just as valid of an experience as people who felt represented.

And listen. No group of people is a monolith and that includes survivors. People WILL have many differing opinions about the way sensitive topics are portrayed, especially when it’s as traumatic as sexual assault and abuse.

I am not saying Vivziepop should have somehow magically concocted a show that handles sexual assault objectively perfectly and pleases every survivor ever. That’s impossible, and I would NEVER ask or expect ANYONE to be able to do that.

But, it’s very clear to me in the interactions above that the people who were upset only wanted their opinions and experiences to be heard and respected as well, and they were essentially told that their feelings didn’t matter.

And to me, Vivziepop’s reaction to all of this was really giving Sia circa 2020:

I really think that, a lot of this could have been mitigated if someone from the Hazbin team, not even necessarily Vivziepop, had just acknowledged, “hey, you’re absolutely in your right to not like the scene and those feelings are valid”.

But there is a very strange sort of hypocrisy that is almost like. Tinted with virtue signaling*??? About listening to all survivors voices, while simultaneously dismissing the voices of survivors that are saying they have already been hurt.

THAT is what bothers me the most. It really seems like the only survivors that a lot of people involved in this discourse, including Vivziepop, were willing to listen to or validate were the ones that already agreed with them.

If you are going to support survivors you DO have to ACTUALLY SUPPORT ALL survivors. Even if they disagree with you.

If you’re still with me, I really really appreciate it. I felt I had to go over all of this to add context, because the concerns those survivors talked about over 10 months ago, foreshadowed the EXACT situation that some people in the Hazbin fandom have now put Limus in.

All because, after the episode came out, they expressed their honest opinions on the subject matter and the way Angel Dust was written in a way fans disagreed with.

I find it really disturbing that, the whole point of Vivziepop’s dismissal was that the show hadn’t come out, and that she said she would “respect” if people had concerns AFTER it came out. But I haven’t really seen any acknowledgment from her that survivors, who after seeing the whole scene, were still negatively affected.

The below is a tweet Vivziepop liked shortly after the episode came out in full.

I agree that any survivors who felt seen by Angel Dust and the show and were invalidated and had their experiences dismissed and questioned by others deserve apologies. But I can’t help but think about the fans who didn’t feel the same, who were hurt, and triggered by the depiction of SA before AND after the show released. I don’t want to read to much into likes, because people like shit for all sorts of reasons, but Vivziepop liking this tweet saying she deserves an apology too does rub me the wrong way, especially after she was told that survivors have ALREADY been hurt.

Don’t those people deserve apologies too? Or at the very least just an acknowledgment that their hurt and concern was valid?? It just comes off to me as a confirmation that Vivziepop doesn’t really want to listen to ALL survivors, just the ones that haven’t criticized her and praised her show.

To clarify—just as Limus did at the end of her video—I AM NOT SAYING THAT SA SURVIVORS WHO DIDNT LIKE THE SHOW’S HANDLING OF SA ARE THE “CORRECT” SURVIVORS AND THAT PEOPLE WHO FELT SEEN AND REPRESENTED BY ANGEL DUST AND THE SHOWS WRITING ARE “WRONG”.

The WHOLE POINT of me going over ALL of this is to take a look at the hypocrisy of many people both in the fandom and outside of it who SAY they care about ALL survivors feelings and experiences, but then call those experiences into question the MOMENT a survivor has an opinion different than their own.

And sadly, I personally believe the creator of Hazbin also contributed hugely to this hypocrisy.

When we look at what happened in January, it now feels weirdly prescient. People are treating Limus’ opinion as if she is personally attacking them, or saying that their experiences are invalid. She did not do that.

It also seems like a lot of people who like Angel Dust and feel he represents them are taking Limus’ critique of the character writing decisions made for Angel Dust, who is not a real person and does not exist, as personal attacks on their real lived experiences. She did not do that either. She was extremely clear that her opinions were in regards to the way Angel Dust was written as a character.

But because Limus critiqued Angel Dust, her experience with abuse has been called into question, just like the above survivors that were concerned about all of this way back in January. This is absolutely fucking unacceptable.

I am saying this to CRITICS AND FANS of Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss, and fuck it, honestly ALL fandoms—If you have engaged in this sort of behavior, you have got to stop. I think the love and passion you have for the art that is important to you is beautiful and wonderful. But NOTHING justifies treating other people this way. It does not matter how much you love a certain character or how much they comfort you or what solace you find in them. There is NO EXCUSE for bullying and harassing someone over this shit.

I am saying this fully aware that it may cause people to get mad at me and want to send me hate. And honestly that’s fine. I will deal with it if it comes. But I couldn’t sit here and watch so many people shit on someone for talking about their experiences and opinions again.

Please, if you find the tweets/threads I referenced in this post, DO NOT ENGAGE WITH THEM OR HARASS THE POSTERS. This whole long massive post was all about why we should NOT do that.

When these conversations happen, I often see people just. Putting words into other’s mouths like it’s an Olympic sport. If someone says they don’t like the way Angel is written, they are not saying your experiences are invalid. If someone says they love the way Angel is written, they are not saying you have to love him and feel represented by him too.

Please. Please try to empathize with each other. Or at the very least, maybe just take some time to sit with your feelings instead of harassing others. I’m using Hazbin as an example because it’s a fandom I’ve had experience with recently, but this really does apply to all fandoms.

As I final note—if you love Angel Dust and think he’s the best written character and feel really represented and seen by him, that’s wonderful and I’m really happy to hear that the show was cathartic or comforting for you. Genuinely.

And if you hated the way Angel Dust was written and the show triggered you, I am so sorry that happened. It is so painful to re-live trauma like that, and I hope any that pain you felt from being reminded of what happened eased quickly and gently.

Both of your experiences and opinions are completely valid, and you have every right to express your opinions to others. Your trauma is real, and however you process it and cope with it should not be judged by anyone.

I just ask that we all be more respectful, and try to be curious about other’s perspectives regarding this stuff.

Thank you again for bearing with me through all of this. I hope you have a great day or night.

*I really really HATE the term “virtue signaling” because in MOST cases, I only ever see it being used to dismiss minorities and allies concerns about injustices. But, given the circumstances of this situation, I do think it’s actually appropriate here, given that survivors where expressing their concerns to Vivziepop and she was justifying her dismissal of them by saying the show hadn’t come out yet, and then went on to say that all survivors mattered. I don’t know whatever word I should have used, other than it just being hypocritical. Again I hate that term, and wouldn’t be using it here if I didn’t really believe it was appropriate and accurate.

[yasmiralotta]

Look, I love Lucifer, but, why are so many Stolas-antis prasing Lucifer for the bare minimum while Stolas can do nothing right in their eyes? 🤨

⚠️Warning: Stolas-antis being hypocrites⚠️

These are just two out of like hunderdes of them btw 😒:

Like, this makes me hate Amazon Prime even more. If the series got more episodes, then Lucifer's "redemption" arc wouldn't get rushed and he wouldn't be seen as such a saint. (People really can't seem to handel characters that doesn't change their way in one episode or less it seems 😬) People like this seems to forget he ignored Charlie for 7 years at this point. (Yeah, he probably had a good reason, but, having good reasons for not being a perfect father has never stopped them from shitting on Stolas. So why do Lucifer get a pass?) Like, he didn't know Charlie ran a hotel, or has a girlfriend (Or that she even likes girls) or anything really, as far as we have seen. I mean, he even sings in 'More than anything' that he can't wait to find out who Charlie is. Like, he has been a very absent father for a long time it seems, alot more than Stolas if you ask me. 🤷‍♀️ Like again, I love Lucifer, but, Stolas-antis like this has really soured his character for me at this point, ngl 🫤

[starlattethesqueakwal]

How I feel about the Vivziepop situation in a nutshell.

I need someone popular to call Vivziepop out. More than a million views worth.

I have been hurt by her stans and haters alike countless times and I even know someone who was hurt by Vivziepop directly.

I/We need a hero...

[birdy-babe]

“everyone hates better-than-blitzo guy because he makes Stolas happy >:(“ “why can you let Stolas be happy and not hate that guy?” “why do you hate that guy so much”

You want to know the real reason I hate that guy ?

because if it weren’t for him

WE WOULD KNOW WHAT BLITZO WAS GOING TO SAY HERE

I NEED TO KNOW WHAT WAS HE GOING TO SAY???????????? AFTER ALL THAT???? AFTER????

[hbheavensent]

Eve/Charlie

The long awaited and requested Eve and Charlie post is here! HEAVY TW on the Eve side of things for: Grooming, Postpartum Depression, The Whole Cain Thing, and suicide

So lets roll into it!

So we're actually gonna start with Charlie since she's on the lighter side of things lmao For her design, I mainly wanted to make her feel more like a main character when you look at her, add some interest to her look while still keeping it simple enough so The Viewer tm can project onto her and find her approachable. I also wanted her to look a lot more like a mix of her mother and father while mostly keeping the obvious "child of the devil" thing. I took away a lot of her red in favor of a bright yellow to make her stand out against most of the Pride Ring, and I added in the goat features with a heavier hand than the show does. She also distinctly has Eve's eyes with little hearts in each of them, because that's just. Cute as fuck. And as a bonus, her Eve-Like features down to her natural optimism and sweetness is HAUNTING for Adam. A huge reason why he's so aggressive with her is the only way he deals with his issues are to forget about them or get rid of them. (Apart of why Charlie has to deal with Adam at all is that Lucifer knows that it would upset the guy.)

Then there's Charlie's Demonic Form, she adds a total of 2 inches to her height (lmao) and gets a more hellish color pallet. I wanted it to feel magical girl-esk which is something I'm drawing from her original transformation sequence in the show. Really heavily leaning into the demon thing with her horns getting longer and that streak in her hair desaturating along with her skin. I really disliked that Charlie's Big Fight outfit was so simple so I may have overcompensated but I enjoy the colors. The one arm not having armor is because I imagine her still using the shield as her main weapon. Also, a small detail is her hands are a bit bigger and more claw-like on purpose.

For her story/personality, I'm keeping her naive attitude and her nearly sickening optimism. A lot of that has to do with Lilith desperately keeping her happy as a means of distracting herself until she "disappears" and in part due to Lucifer heavily sheltering her. I've mentioned it before but it does not make sense for Charlie to be 200 years old so I'm knocking it down to 20 years. She's wildly bright eyed and bushy tailed. The reason she has the idea to redeem sinners at all is because she wants Lilith to be able to see Heaven, which because Lilith is dead missing, isn't going to happen.

But she doesn't know that! So it's fine!

She meets Vaggie much the same way, though Charlie is nice enough to know what Vaggie is- it's more of a secret to everyone else in the Hotel than herself. This is also how they come up with the idea to attack back, which Charlie is hesitant to do until it comes down to the wire. She's not a huge fan of violence, naturally.

Charlie's relationship to her father is.. strained, because the second she becomes a person- starts having her own opinions and all that, Lucifer is no longer interested. Lucifer is especially uninterested in the Hotel, he doesn't believe sinners should have the second chance even if they could have it. So Charlie's secondary motive is to prove to him that anyone can be redeemed and that they deserve it, which is something she'll have to reconsider as she gets to know her residents.

For Eve, who makes me so god damn sad, I wanted to show the light leaving her eyes Post Apple Incident. I really wanted to give her curly hair and make her just an adorable cutie patootie. In her Garden Version I gave her these sort of magical birthmarks to symbolize that she came from Adam's rib. I also gave her a tooth gap, because I think it's just plain adorable.

Then as she gains free-will and is banished to Earth she loses that bubbly personality and becomes more and more curt as she becomes a mother. The scar on her hand is from getting it caught in a thorn bush, which admittedly I don't think it looks like that but I'll go back to fix it later. I also kinda deflated the volume in her hair to make her look a touch more downtrodden.

THEN there's her Hell Version, I completely desaturated her besides the red and made her hair more sharp and contained in two short twin braids. I tried to allude to Roo's original design as much as I could by keeping her checkered shirt and the thorn motif- but I wanted to show that her and Adam have very similar tastes, with their leather and spike, punk-like outfits. I also gave her "apple bottom jeans" (they're actually bell bottoms but hush), and a moon pendant that she turned into a bracelet that she got from Lilith.

I imagine Eve has a lot of plant/thorn based powers and can meld into shadows- but I really haven't got all of that sorted.

For her story, and this is where it gets intense so this is your final warning, I wanted to really showcase how wrong Lucifer did her. Not only does she have trouble making Adam happy in the garden, which was hard with his first wife currently being lured in by The Literal Soon To Be Devil... But she also was currently being tempted. Any time her mood soured, Lucifer was there to tilt her chin up and tell her everything she wanted to hear. So of course she trusted him, he was nothing but nice! He always talked about how much he loved her, loved Lilith, loved Adam... So when she was offered The Apple, she took a bite grateful to be included. Adam was a little too late to stop anything, not that he could have but what's one more pound of salt in the wound.

In the same breath Lilith and Lucifer were cast out, Eve was to be dammed to Earth. Adam demanded to go with her, he didn't want to be alone. God, he couldn't do that. So, off they went. They quickly had a Horrible Time, but soon they had Cain. Cain was a sweet child originally, maybe a bit rough with animals and intense with his feelings but.. it really got bad when he was seven and Able was born. Able was a golden boy, no doubts about it.. And he wasn't Adams. Eve had met once again with her fallen friend, see she had just been miserable since being on Earth.. and there was one Angel she reluctantly missed. He always said the sweetest things, after all. Adam didn't notice or care, he loved his sons and was... frankly, too exhausted to notice. Eve after Able was becoming more and more withdrawn into herself, not really caring for ether kid as much as she probably should of. Falling into a deep depression and rarely even feeding herself, it was around this time that Lucifer stopped making his visits to Earth. Both due to Heaven being watchful of the new child and that he wouldn't want to "deal with all that" as he would put it.

When Cain killed Able due to his jealousy, Eve strangled her firstborn and proceeded to cry for the remaining hours of the day. Until Adam came to bury them, she didn't have the strength to do so herself and ate hemlock that same night.

She woke up in Hell, taking a lot of solace in Lilith and Lucifer's company for many years. Lilith naturally missed her and Lucifer was happy to have his "toy" back. (His words, we hate him.)

It took her awhile to adjust but as humans started flooding into hell (post Adam death and then post evolution) she found solace in taking advantage of others, it made her feel powerful. Something she never felt, in control. Yet, she still ended up visiting her favorite couple from time to time for quick kisses and any kind of social engagement. At some point she takes on the nickname of Roo (short for Root, short for Root of All Evil) and is a sort of legend among Sinners.

Later rather than sooner, one of these meeting with just Lucifer ended up with Lucifer wanting a child from her, he promised that she could try again as a mother. She agreed to have her, gave birth to her... but once she saw Charlie's face? She couldn't do it. She couldn't raise a child again even after thousands of years, so.. she left Charlie with Lilith, who never got the chance to have a child and got out of there. Lilith was happy to raise the kid, have any sort of distraction from Lucifer's gilded cage. So, Eve went into hiding in hell and is currently still avoiding Lucifer's eye. Eve only really started killing, gaining souls, and becoming prominent again after Lilith's disappearance. Enraged and ultimately scared for her situationship/best friend, thinking that Lucifer must have done something so she needs real power to question him.

Naturally since being in Hell for a long time she'd learned that he's Actually Not Good and was Just Lovebombing her, but it doesn't stop her from missing him from time to time. And her literal soulmate (Adam) is forever out of reach unless he's in Hell killing Sinners, and she's not so sure he wouldn't hurt her after years of memories distorting and emotions being built up.

Anyway that's... pretty much all I have to say. It's hard to summarize so I apologize if anything is unclear. I want to talk about Eve so much but I find myself just Making Noise instead of having comprehensive statements sometimes. There's also a lot I still have to figure out with Cain/Able and Adam so, we'll get there eventually.

Also here's the line up as per usual.

And a zoom-in on the Morningstar family (+ Eve)

[eyebulb]

Still thinking about the cringelevel of the hellaverse and why it's actually awesome.

Like I was very much an edgy kid, like.. One who thought romance and cheese was cringe af. Couldn't deal with it. Hated musicals too.

But.. One musical in particular changed that for me. Moulin Rogue. It's so theatrical and so tragic and so whimsy and it dragged me in and captivated me entirely. Cus whatever it wanted to do, it did it unapologetically 110%. No excuses, no limits. It had a bunch of very silly over the top funny shit, but also made me cry like a motherfucker and I loved that soo much.

After Moulin Rogue, my cringelevel was obliterated. Cus.. I'm an artist, ok. And I've always drawn whatever I want even when people don't like it. I've always loved individuality, especially if they meet resistance. And Moulin Rouge did that with everything. Suddenly "cringe" became "creative freedom" in my head. And nowadays, none of my pleasures are guilty. Cus why should I be ashamed about enjoyment?

Marvel did the opposite. I used to be really into Marvel movies, particularly Iron Man. But as the culture changed, so did superhero movies and suddenly Marvel couldn't do superhero stuff without adding a wink and a "haha isn't this silly?? We know it is so that still makes us cool right??" and it lost all it's charm for me. If you're gonna do something, don't apologise, just do it. Stop being a pussy and stand behind your craft! Ffs...

And so.. With the Hellaverse. Yes they're vulgar but they make no excuses about also being very much theatre. Cheesy, queer musical theatre, and everyone involved loves it and it shows. They don't shy away from over the top cheesiness, they go full out, no excuses. And fuck me, I LOVE IT! That should be celebrated, not shamed. Like yes, more people shedding the cringe label from their person!!