#aspd stigma

[antisocialsharky]

ASPD Can Coexist With Other Trauma Symptoms

It is relatively widely agreed upon, that Antisocial Personality Disorder likely originates from a complex mix of genetics and environmental factors (such as childhood trauma, poor living circumstances, etc). Thus its usually the case, that people with ASPD have experienced some form of childhood trauma, be that emotional, s*xual, physical, or something else (there are claims for exceptions to this, which is why I'm saying "usually", whether or not those claims can be believed, there always needs to be space for the possibility).

Since ASPD is just a label, that groups a certain pattern of thoughts and behavioral & emotional symptoms together, it should not come as a suprise, that ppl with ASPD can also present with comorbidities rooted in trauma/other symptoms with trauma origin (and of course also things not rooted in trauma, but thats not the topic).

What this looks like is hella individual, but it does seem to not be rare for ASPDers to also present with one or more other personality disorders (especially from the same cluster), dissociative disorders, depressive disorders, anxiety disorders, substance use disorders, eating disorders, or post traumatic stress disorders.

All of those often present comorbidly in response to the same/similar trauma and/or negative situations the person has been trough and/or may present as coping mechanisms for those situations.

In some cases one may also not fit a specific pattern, to a clinically relevant enough level to receive one of the official diagnoses, but there may still be treatment relevant impairment in the form of a collection of ungrouped symptoms.

It is those ungrouped symptoms, that still cause impairment, but may not have a diagnosis attached to them (for the individual specifically), that I would like to talk about today. I'll be using my own case as an example, so this may not apply to everyone else with my combination of conditions.

I received the following diagnoses/medical recognitions from age 15 on till today (age 24): major depressive disorder, CD/ASPD, adjustment disorder, social anxiety and a*orexia. The adjustment disorder has since been wiped from the record due to the time limit being up (not thanks to no longer struggling, but ending therapy back then), the a*orexia is no longer at a clinically relevant level and I personally disagree with the social anxiety diagnosis, but I'm still listing it for the sake of transparency.

None of those conditions explain all of my symptoms though and it would be surprising if they did, since these categories are not meant to include every single person/case and their symptoms.

Sometimes you simply have struggles/problems, that may not make you fit enough criteria to be diagnosed with something, but that can, especially in interaction with your other symptoms, still cause a lot of distress. The things I'll mention today, are things that have done this for me, at least from age 14 on, but often also for longer:

1. Fear of Abandonment

It always surprises people, that I, as an ASPDer fear abandonment and I rarely admit to it, but its actually something that has caused me a lot of issues both in the past and the present. Its been a relatively consistent thing for me, where I will always assume that people secretly dislike me, that they are just waiting to leave me, that other people are always more important to them, that its impossible to love me, that people who reassure me they do are actually lying, that the other person being mad at me is something I need to avoid at all cost because otherwise I will be left, etc.

These feelings/thoughts terrify me and usually lead to clingy behavior on my part, a sort of obsessive checking of messages (and getting upset if people don't reply), me accepting toxic/hurtful behavior from the other person (because at least they're here hurting me...thats better than them being gone), me also disengaging and abandoning them before they can do that to me, avoiding it to develop a bond in the first place, behaving very pathetically and often impulsively to get their attention on me again (used to be the threatening of SH/sui, but is a bit more tame now), etc.

Its all rooted in emotional neglect in my childhood and always having people promise they'll stay/love me, just for them to do the exact opposite. This affects deeply how much I allow myself to get sucked into relationships, how I handle arguments, how I behave online and what I feel like on a daily basis (which was quite the shocker to find out again).

2. "Dissociation"

I don't deal well with feeling a lot of emotions and I tend to deny that I feel them at all and this has led to a lot of confusion on my part about what I actually feel now, but past me luckily documented his entire mental health journey online from age 14/15 on, so it was relatively "easy" to find out, that yes even with my ASPD being in full swing, I still used to experience a lot more emotions and admit to those more, than I do now. This tendency to build up a barrier around my emotions definitely is connected to ASPD, cus I had to shut down my ability to feel guilt/remorse/empathy during childhood already in order to survive and theres definitely also a touch of depression in there (with losing passion, losing happiness, etc.), but part of it also is just a response to this fear of abandonment, a fear of being vulnerable, a fear of getting hurt again and a response to events during the past few years. I dissociated away from that in order to not feel it and its still my immediate instinct whenever I feel uncomfortable and thats a problem, because it means I don't actually work trough things and I'm a lot less present.

3. Hating it to be perceived wrongly

Theres probably part of this that is rooted in ASPD, but I care way too much about my image and whether people perceive me the way I want them to, for this to solely be attributed to that. I mean I obviously don't mind negative attention, if I did I would not post some of my more bold takes, but I only like it if I specifically invite that sort of response. I absolutely do crash out/get angry whenever someone perceives me in a way, that I did not intend/invite and this too is rooted in past trauma, since it was my whole identity that I'm "better than my brother" and "the better behaved child", so my rule breaking and negative behavior always needed to be perceived as "less bad than my brothers" and I worked hard to soften the blows and hide and manipulate what would happen. I hate it when people have the wrong idea of me and I think about my words and how they'll be perceived a lot more than I care to admit. Its sort of like an art form, but if I fail, I break apart.

4. Hating vulnerability/failure

This ties into the previous point, but if I fuck up, it needs to look like thats what I intended. If I'm bad at something, I need to control the narrative around it and feign nonchalance. If I'm accidentally too vulnerable, I need to joke and make it seem inconsequential. I can't sit down with people and have a heart to heart without crashing out. I can't cry in front of people without hiding away for weeks after and hating myself for having shown weakness. I deny and pretend I don't care about something, or that something didn't hurt me, just so I can avoid having to talk about it. I avoid intimacy like its the plague, both physically and emotionally, because if I don't control the narrative and if I fail at it, or if I think people actually didn't like doing something with me, that is actually the end of the world and I won't recover from that for a while!

5. Feeling like I can never thrive without support

This is probably a direct consequence of my rather impulsive and irresponsible nature, but I feel like I am incapable of taking care of myself to the point where I'd thrive and actually have everything under control. I never really learned how to prioritize myself and my needs healthily and I wasn't taught a lot of life skills growing up, so I stare at life and feel incredibly overwhelmed. I shut down easily and can't wrap my head around how to take care of myself and stay healthy & safe and how to stay on top of shit without someone else telling me what to do. Which is inconvenient for someone who hates to give away control and listen to others, but theres just always been this sort of "knowledge" inside my brain, that I need guidance and help more than I want to admit and more than I'm capable of allowing. This tends to make me push decisions into the future, or simply stagnate, because theres the existing hope of "someone will help me with this if I wait long enough".

6. Idolizing and devaluing people

If I think someone is cool/that thats someone I wanna be friends with/or if that person is actually my partner/etc. I tend to be stuck in this cycle where I'll interpret their actions overly positively and/or idolize them at the beginning? Like their bare minimum will absolutely feel like the best thing in the world, I'll ignore redflags and warning signs, I will try my hardest to keep myself in check and I will feel godlike when they openly appreciate me/show me off. Then this fear of losing them, the fear of them just pretending and shit sets in, or they see something they're not supposed to/they do something to crack the illusion and I will tend to devalue them in my head.

Theres immediately a lot of like disdain? I guess? And fantasies about how much better I'm off without them, things I used to like about them put me off, I fixate on the negative and lose the feelings I have for them. As a teenager I used to really insult people during this and block them and shit and then when the feelings passed, the cycle would start anew and I'd regret ever having done it and beg them to take me back. Today I will usually just pull back, pretend everythings fine and deal with this on my own, but its still annoying, because it makes it harder to value friendships and I have to keep a tight reign on my impulses in order to not fuck shit up.

Other short mentions:

• the inability to tolerate a messy environment because it reminds me of my brother

• hating it to be touched by people, yet craving it to the point of allowing uncomfortable touch

• tending to age regress if I dont just dissociate

• struggling with trusting others

• full on body anxiety whenever certain topics are brought up/I have to argue with someone

• big time identity issues

• struggling with cognitive empathy, cus I was never given the opportunity to learn it

• increased anxiety about consequences if I'm aware of them and they will damage something I care about

• a tendency to see the world as more negative or black&white than it actually is

• daydreaming/making up scenarios/fantasies and playing them trough just to feel safe/at home/taken care of

• urges to start a new unhealthy behavior to cope with what I haven't worked trough

The reason why I decided to share this is majorly, because people tend to forget that having ASPD doesn't automatically make you incapable of experiencing any other trauma reactions.

Like theres a lot of posts on social media denying that ppl with ASPD can have a fear of abandonment, can care about what others think about them, can fear vulnerability, can feel complicated emotions towards someone, etc. and its just...bullshit pretty much.

Sure everyone is different and it will depend on your upbringing and how you were able to deal or not deal with shit, but some ASPDers absolutely experience these things and experiencing them doesn't make you unable to meet ASPD criteria and doesn't mean you're pretending/faking or giving it a bad name.

They can 100% coexist with ASPD.

first posted on my instagram (same @)

[maive-the-sheep]

As someone officially diagnosed with aspd.

I don't get the problem people have with self diagnosers.

Aspd on record means if go to jail get a worse sentence.

Aspd on record means many therapist in their ableism will refuse to help with any problem.

I knew i had no guilt or shame or affective empathy or feelings of compassion from earliest memories. I didn't suddenly lose those feelings when i got diagnosed.

And there is genetic evidence for aspd.

And there are psychologists that view it more like a neurodevelopmental disorder.

"Well the dsm 5"...was written by people who used studies only on prisoners for their results so it became more action focused over internal as a way to reinforce the prisoner claim.

And it's a work in progress authority...that you are blindly obeying and believing? Now that's a trait that doesn't fit aspd.

Reflect on actual symptoms like problems with boredom. Lower, missing, or weirdly selective care for feelings of compassion, affective empathy, guilt, shame, care. Things viewed differently for you then norm. Urges. Response to things. Having rules need to be explained to make sense and not just accepted in their own right. Etc.

Knowing a spectrum and if fit enough, fit enough.

And then if fit do the best to use how different for best way forward. Like i use my selfishness for long term prisoners dilema as a motivation for me to do good. I turned my high anger into motivation. I found beauty in various things as an alleviation for boredom. Etc.

Tl;dr those "with aspd" trying to fake claim others cause no official diagnoses...are the ones most likely to not have aspd.

[cemitadepollo]

Not a day passes by without me being mad as shit that ableism against demonized mental illnesses is normalised.

We are not criminals. We are not dangerous. We do not owe neurotypicals a complete explanation on why we developed our disorders and why we aren't serial killers that kidnap people.

Fuck hollywood, fuck ableist criminology and fuck saneism.

[msuic-lovr]

*clicks on an interesting drama video* ”this person is a psychopath/sociopath/psychotic/narcissist/delusional!”

*sighs*

*clicks off the video*

[maeinthekinning]

What is it with ableists towards aspd and npd with eyes?

"They get shark eyes" "eyes are like a cheetah" "wolf eyes" "monster eyes" "soul devouring eyes" "evil eyes" "eyes like a winter spirit" are all ive heard

I mean, thanks for the compliment, but they aren't that special, just a slight brownish to my gray eyes

[bpdmaxxer]

[eliana-system]

Guys you do know that abusers most of the time don't have a mental disorder, right? You do know that some people just see the opportunity to be a scumbag and choose to take it.

There is not an "abusive disorder" out there. Some mentally ill people are abusive. Some not mentally ill people are abusive.

Its obvious if you look at the 1900s where sexisme was so blatant that most people were abusive and racist and homo/transphobic. They could have had empathy towards women, POCs and lgbt+ people, could have made the effort to not be assholes, but most didn't and even exploiter this abusive system to do more harm.

At some point, people choose to be abusers and it isn't that they lack empathy. Its that they don't view the victim as a person. They can be the most empathetic toward their fucking dog and choose to abuse children.

Start holding abusers responsible, stop blaming people with NPD or ASPD.

[headshotters]

realizing that other people experience emotions differently is so interesting, i noticed this recently while talking to a friend of mine and it was genuinely kind of shocking? i figured everyone felt things the exact same way as me and just majorly overexaggerated everything, but learning that people will use the same words to describe very different experiences is actually pretty cool

[sodapillz]

I can't stand @the.bpd.specialist on tt.

I can't remember if I've talked abt this already but she bugs me to no end. And this is coming from someone that used to really enjoy her content. -Info below-

࿔ She still uses the term "narcissistic abuse".

࿔ She constantly compares BPD with other Cluster B personality disorders and, while doing so, demonizes the disorders she's comparing to. (links to that below)

࿔ She has made many tiktoks of her BPD characters being abused or taken advantage of by her NPD characters. Even making out one of the NPD characters to be a r^p!st - I would put the links to those but it won't let me watch the ones I'm talking abt on my laptop :<

࿔ She likes comments calling pwNPD evil or just talking badly abt them in general while also liking comments coddling BPD for doing the exact same things they're mad at pwNPD for doing. (ss below)

I really did used to like her, but she has become insufferable in my eyes.

[stitch-away]

another gripe w aspd/sociopath redditors i have is the insistence on behaviour above all else. "aspd isn't a mood disorder, behaviour is first foremost important" yeah aspd isn't a mood disorder but isn't a behavioural disorder either???? it's a personality disorder, so behaviour and emotions are equally important.

they mainly use that line to invalidate self dx and anyone who thinks they may have symptoms. it feels like the only criteria they care about is breaking the law, ignoring the ableism that goes into the dsm v criteria.

but wtv i think pd spaces should be about support and community not doing everything you can to "gatekeep" a mental illness lol

[antisocialsharky]

ASPD - Reduced To Being Subhuman

Do you know whats its like to be categorically excluded from being human?

Do you know how it feels to know, that no matter how much you work on yourself, no matter what you do, no matter how much you contain your urges and no matter how desperately you try to belong, your entire fucking species has already decided that you are not a part of them?

Its rejection on an uncomprehensible scale. A repetitive slap in the face at every corner. Barely being permitted to walk among them and never more than that.

Fake promises of letting you in, while never stopping to cast you out. Demands of your action and care, while keeping the possibility of actually doing it out of your reach. Its fucked.

"What seperates humans from other animals, is their ability to form deep bonds with others, work together on a big scale, feel deep empathy and care for one another and go against ones survival instinct to protect others out of love"

"If you don't feel empathy, you're not human"

"Art is what connects people, the deeply embedded emotions in it, that can only be felt and understood, if you have what it takes to be human. The ability to feel with others"

"The most important thing for humans is connection and community. Caring about each other, feeling for each other and not having any intentions to harm others"

"Those who harm others are sick and don't belong. They're not human, cus if they were, their empathy and guilt and morals would prevent them from doing it"

If the core of being a human is to feel with others, to care, to connect, to subscribe to morals and to experience all of these things on the regular, that suggests, that those who do not feel that and cannot do that, aren't human.

This would only be an assumption, if it wasn't fucking proven to us in every goddamn moment of our existence.

The world is full of the insistence that without empathy, without connection, without morals, you're not human. It starts with music and books circling around the concept and ends with people using a lack of empathy as an explanation for any depraved thing they can think of.

Its impossible to exist, to consume, to live, without being assaulted by lines and images that question your very right to exist and be a member of this species.

If your love isn't an emotional care for others, its not human.

If your friendship isn't based on deep emotional connection, its not human.

If your care isn't based on genuine distress at seeing the other upset/in pain, its not human.

If your activism isn't based on being emotionally appalled and angry and distressed about what you're seeing, its not human.

If your actions aren't based on morals that are important to you, they're not human.

If you cannot understand art and do not feel moved by books and songs and movies, you're not human.

If you wouldn't go out of your way to save others, you're not human.

If your apology isn't motivated by genuine remorse, its not human.

If your behavior change isn't motivated by genuine care and guilt, its not human.

Not human. Not human. Not human. Never fucking human.

Do you know that they call those who they perceive as not human? Monsters. Sick. Deranged. Insane.

Do you know what things they classify as monstrous and sick and deranged and insane?

• not feeling empathy

• not feeling remorse

• being aggressive

• feeling pleasure at other peoples suffering

• feeling pleasure at your own suffering

• making reckless impulsive decisions

• living in a different reality

• being able to handle and look at topics they find morally wrong

• being obsessed instead of feeling love

• lying and being manipulative

• breaking laws

• not thinking about other people's safety/health

• being self obsessed or grandiose

• mood swings/erractic mood

• and basically every other symptom of all the mh conditions

Its not just behaviors that could cause harm, that make you a monster in their eyes. Its your brain. Its who you are. You will never actually be human in their eyes, because you lack everything they require in order to see you as human.

They make that clear by defining healthy relationships with these human qualities.

They make that clear by having them be part of job descriptions.

They make that clear by having them as community guidelines and rules.

They make that clear by inserting them into laws and judging you based on them in court.

They make that clear by defining their prosocial society based on them.

Without the human qualities, you will never be their equal. You will never get to experience what they do, you can always just watch from the outside and imagine what it might be like.

They make fake promises, telling you, that if only you went to therapy, if only you changed, if only you took those meds, if only you just followed what they told...you would finally get to be human.

But no. They may pretend. They may accept the show you put on as barely passing, but their requirements will not change and you're still not meeting them. You're tolerated, not accepted.

And they still don't want you there. If they did, they wouldn't make therapy so hard to access, they wouldn't continue spreading the stigma in psych lectures, they wouldn't continue refusing you treatment, they wouldn't continue telling you that you're destined for prison, they wouldn't demand for the d*ath pentalty to be brought back for people like you.

If they truly wanted you there, they would change the requirements for what makes you a human being. They don't.

So you do the only thing that is left for you. Your only option.

You find comfort in sickness. You make yourself at home in your deranged insane mind. You embrace the monster.

You adjust to being aggressive first and anything else later. You grow comfortable with the demons in your brain suggesting violent ideas. You get used to your fascination with the morbid and wrong. You learn to tolerate the loneliness and absence of others and your own emotions. You grow okay with recklessly and impulsively ruining your and other peoples lifes every now and then.

You embrace who you are and maybe you push the boundaries and delve deeper into the sickness of your own mind. Cuddling up under blankets of new levels of violence. Resting on added defenses and removing yourself further and further from other peoples idea of what and who you should be.

It doesn't always stop the longing. You might still catch yourself desperately hoping that maybe you can change, maybe you will get to experience those things as deeply and humanely as others do. You might grow frustrated and angry with yourself when you can't. You might lie in anguish, tossing and turning while your brain throws insults at you and repeats how much of a failure you are for being subhuman, not wanted, not perfect.

But maybe the longing becomes less. Maybe you don't need to be angry with yourself quite as often. Maybe you can be understood by other monsters, by others who are sick and insane and deranged. Maybe you can finally talk freely about your thoughts and your emotions and your urges.

Maybe you didn't need to be human afterall. Maybe being a monster is enough.

first posted on my instagram (same @)

[maive-the-sheep]

The more extreme your aspd is, the less and less drawn towards in group vs out group mentality. Because of lower or missing of a certain neurochemical base line.

No, that serial killer that went after specifically prostitutes isn't aspd. Likely just an anti prostitute prosocial. Probably typical empathy levels.

No, those cops poisoning their citizens aren't "sociopaths". They are likely prosocials that view those citizens as others. Standard empathy levels average. And likely classist or other bigotries.

No, those countries dehumanizing citizens of other places aren't psychopaths. They are xenophobic in group vs out group. Standard empathy levels average.

No, your parents abusing you isn't likely aspd. They are likely ageist in group vs out group and pro social. And standard empathy levels.

The most evil, despicable, horrific people. Have on average. Average empathy, care, compassion, guilt, shame. You are not immune to horrific actions by having them.

I'm not saying aspd means immune to bad actions. But most bad actions, are done by pro socials. Cause their is a lot more of them.

You're emotions don't make you good or bad.

[gonerface]

To the people using 'antisocial' (ASPD) instead of asocial

You realize that you mean asocial right? Probably not since you didn't use it but hey

There is a difference

Googling asocial:

Asociality refers to the lack of motivation to engage in social interaction, or a preference for solitary activities. Asociality may be associated with avolition, but it can, moreover, be a manifestation of limited opportunities for social relations.

What you find googling the meaning of antisocial:

1. : averse to the society of others : unsociable.

2. : hostile or harmful to organized society.

3. psychology : of, relating to, or characteristic of antisocial personality disorder

What does it mean to be an antisocial person:

A person with antisocial personality disorder may: exploit, manipulate or violate the rights of others. lack concern (also about themselves), regret or remorse about other people's distress. behave irresponsibly and show disregard for normal social behaviour. have difficulty sustaining long-term relationships. Also not caring if things end.

Not being sensitive to or respectful of others acts, emotions, behaviors, thoughts. May use charm or wit to manipulate others for personal gain or pleasure. Having a sense of superiority and being extremely opinionated. Having problems with authority, the law, can include criminal behavior. Being hostile, aggressive, violent or threatening to others when they protect themselves.

And also being reckless about your own safety, health (physical, mental, emotional), not caring about their own education or job.

Difficulty with planning ahead. Impulsive thoughts.

Issues with splitting (just like BPD, HPD and NPD)

Homicidal ideation (can be intrusive, yes even for someone with ASPD)

So... After reading all of that... Which one do you wanna be associated with now?

Stop using words as if they mean nothing.

Especially when people suffer from the thing you throw around like it's nothing.

You're not cool for using 'antisocial' when you don't have ASPD. You're just another annoying edge lord being ignorant and ableist.

[onethousand825days]

if you're a licensed therapist who paid for an education in mental disorders and trauma, and genuinely believe that NPD/ASPD means a person is inherently evil and bad, you should ask for your money back. because nowhere in the DSM-V does it say that narcissists/sociopaths are more evil than the rest of the population and going around saying that we are just makes you look stupid

[a-sip-of-milo]

Someone with a cluster b disorder: *tries to educate people on OUR disorders*

Ableists: "No, I'd rather listen to this self-proclaimed "empath" who thinks they can spot a narcissist in the wild, read people's minds and has no real concept of what it means to have a cluster b disorder."

[maeinthekinning]

So many people say aspd means someone is emotionless or heartless. I have emotions, just not as much variety as prosocials.

And my actions, i actually do stuff that helps many others, much different reasons then prosocials.

And so many "caring, empathetic" people do not think their actions through so cause so much harm but just view themselves as the ultimate good cause emotions.

Your emotions don't make you good or bad. Just like me missing some doesn't make me good or bad.

Actions, benefit vs detriment.

No more of this toxic positivity, appeal to emotions, appeal to normalcy, thought crime believing, ad hominem using, appeal to motive, appeal to authority used as a general belief.

Fallacies and biases come up, the goal is to minimize them and their impact, not make your identity around them.