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late to the convo but jason's relationship with barbara in three jokers, while ass on top of ass, gave some interesting insight into his character. i doubt it was intentionally done because Lord knows almost no post utrh authors intentionally give him depth. buttt i was really intrigued by the way he pines over barbara after they share a little kiss and how affected he is by barbara rejecting him.

considering it was barbara who initiated the kiss (i think, could be wrong-- kinda irrelevant tho), i don't think he actually was romantically into her but rather, he was taken by her display of care for him. he himself admits that nobody has ever treated him the way she does at that moment. above this screenshot, barb talks about how she was able to heal from the joker because of her support system, which jason blurts out that he's never had before.

they kiss right after this and then barb says that it shouldn't have happened. imo, jason showed no romantic interest in her up until this kiss (which is more a flaw of the heterosexual storytelling that authors can seemingly never resist) and then following this moment, he's sort of just trailing after her like a little puppy. he's very obviously starved for affection/care/love, which is what i think makes him ask barb for more of an actual relationship between them. it's not that he's genuinely into her.

neither of them were really into each other but jason especially wanted something with her because she showed him something he hasn't been given in a while- a sort of love and attention/concern. she gives a shit about him, talks to him like a fellow human being, sees him and his problems (ignoring her annoying outlook on it in this comic)-- and that's what seems to get jason.

his pining after her felt very much like he would've done anything just to continue being treated gently and with understanding. which is why i think he pursues her. sexual, romantic-- he doesn't care what their relationship would be. its kinda implied he would do anything for her to have him, even give up red hood (bad writing lmfao), and this really only shows how starved he is for love.

"i can be something else. or i can be just jason" is pretty heartbreaking because it gives insight into his self esteem and how he views himself. clearly he doesn't hold himself to a high standard if he's offering to be someone else entirely just for barb to keep giving him those little bits of affection and care. he refers to himself as "just" jason like he isn't much to begin with.

he got some affection from barb, was told something that any of the bats could've said, and immediately latched onto it like it was a lifeline. i feel like he confuses the types of love. now understandably, if i was kissed on the lips, i too would think there was a romance sparking between us, but jason just seems unable to distinguish between his feelings.

he's not romantically interested in barb but he's chasing after that care/concern/attention she gave him and will clearly do anything to experience it again. he just happens to think the only way for him to experience it again is through a romantic relationship with her.

"i will devote my life to making you proud" what a sad statement LMFAO but i think it captures a part of the kind of person jason is. a boy starved for love. that same little kid who wants bruce, alfred, dick to be proud of him. he wants to be seen.

he stays with the bats, with bruce, no matter how shitty they treat him and no matter how abusive bruce is to him because he can't distinguish between his feelings. doesn't know love from disdain or concern from abuse. he wants someone to be proud of him, to love him. and if he has to get hurt in the process, get beat on, isolated, yelled at-- if he has to give up some part of who he is just to get that sliver of affection and love-- then yeah he'll do it each time. he knows nothing else.

[jayladfanpage]

AU of an AU: what if Bruce could see ghost!jason?

Got a lil help from @sunlitlemonade - thank youuuu

[jayladfanpage]

I’d like to clear up some common misconceptions about the Attack on Titan Tower, aka when Jason infiltrated it to attack Tim

If you want to read this for yourself, here are some links: readallcomics - I have the best luck with this site on destop zipcomic readcomicsonline - this site can be temperamental

1) Jason did not go there to attempt to kill Tim

Jason seems to have 3 separate goals for this: - size up the new kid. - make sure he knows Bruce just sees him as another soldier - prove to Tim just how dangerous the job is (heavily implied, in my opinion, especially after Tim tried telling Jason he was wrong about how Bruce saw him) He also voiced his anger over being forgotten by everyone. Depending on your interpretation of Jason and his character, this could also be a reason. To me, this feels more like an afterthought because they moved to the Hall of Fallen Heroes before he said this, and Jason likes to be dramatic.

Side note on this. Jason never says anything about being replaced.

2) none of Tim’s injuries were life threatening

Once again, Jason was not attempting to kill him. He beat him up pretty badly, but it was designed to prove a point

3) Jason did NOT cut Tim’s throat.

That happened during Hush which predates both Under the Red Hood and Titan’s Tower. Jason was pretending to be Hush, put a knife to Tim’s throat, and put enough pressure to make him bleed (it was not an actual slice) to get Bruce to react to him. That injury was not life threatening either

Edit: I’ve seen some comments about the ‘not life threatening’ statement. Yes, it needed stitches, but it wasn’t spurting blood, therefore not life threatening. Just because you’re bleeding from a neck injury, it doesn’t mean you’re at an immediate risk of dying (spoken from experience). It’s if the carotid artery or jugular vein are cut that it’s a problem, and you’ll know if that happens because of SO MUCH BLOOD. You will bleed out within minutes.

The way it’s portrayed, it’s not a life threatening injury

4) Jason developed a respect and a bit of envy for Tim after fighting him

At the end of the issue while he’s leaving (while outside the tower), Jason acknowledges Tim’s skill. Jason also wonders if he could have had a life more similar to his, where he had friends and a better support system, if he could have had a different life.

5) Tim was NOT a damsel in distress during the fight, and he did NOT develop a fear of Jason.

Tim was making quips and dissing Jason the entire fight. Tim was not afraid of him nor did he bat an eye at being attacked by Jason. He also vocalized just how much he had to work for his cape because of how Jason's death affected Bruce

Also, the next time Tim saw Jason after this, he made sure to kick Jason in the groin

6) Jason wrote "Jason Todd was here" and signed it with a hand print on the wall.

It looks like it could be in blood, but Tim's not injured enough for there to be that much... and blood darkens after a while. There's a bit of time between Tim getting knocked out and the rest of the Titans finding him and the writing so it's probably paint. Again, Jason likes to be dramatic

7) more Robin!Jason slander by Raven

Once again, we get the mention that Jason was "aggressive". I swear, this is the only thing writers remember from Death in the Family and not the point that that behavior was out of the ordinary for Jason. This is a personal pet peeve of mine in the comics.

8) almost forgot to add the most important part, Jason made a homemade Robin costume and wore it under his Red Hood outfit because he could

Again, Jason is a dramatic bitch.

[jayladfanpage]

Hello! :'( I need help with an utrh clarification!! I saw your jason masterlist a while back and that's how I found you (thank you for that!! too!! love love love!!! <3) and thought maybe you could help me out? :0 UTRH takes place during infinite crisis (Bludhaven got NUKED)!! But when I came to issue #4 of Infinite Crisis, Bruce is JUST HERE (???) and this is the rough transcript:

Dick: Bruce? What are you doing here? Bruce: I wanted to make sure... you're alright... I was in New York when it hit. Got here as soon as I could.

????????? I AM SO LOST ???????????? I KNOW BRUCE AND JASON SAW BLUDHAVEN GETTING NUKED IN UTRH ???? THAT WAS A WHOLE BUNCH OF PAGES??? Actually in general, what's up with that purple mist (?) in the final panels of UTRH. And the whole final narration about 'fate' and 'we have been here before.' I love the final confrontation and then I just go into 'huh?' territory. Just some dates I tried to check, but it doesn't mean much: The last issue of UTRH (Batman #650) came out on February 22, 2006, the bludhaven nuke issue in particular on January 25, 2006. Infinite Crisis #4 came out on January 18, 2006. Batman #651 is immediately set a year after Infinite Crisis. I'm so lost :'( Thank you endlessly for your help! <3

--- (シ_ _)シ

Hi anon! I asked dear mutual @dickgraysonsptsd to check if he knew something I didn't, but turns out that Infinite Crisis is just an absolute mess of miscommunication, to the point that Devin (who was writing Nightwing at the time) wasn't even told it was actively happening! And she was the one who had to write the Blud explosion! The most likely answer is that the writers weren't told what happened in UTRH, and the editors didn't catch it. Sorry there isn't a more satisfying answer!

About the purple mist: It's mostly left up to interpretation, but it's the same visual effect that UTRH uses when Jason is revived in his grave. But personally, I believe that it means Jason, Bruce, and Joker all died after the building exploded (because, well, it's hard to survive a building collapsing on top of you) and some Higher Power brought them back to life - like how it's described that Jason's revival was "correcting a mistake" implying that the three of them weren't meant to die in that confrontation either.

(Also I'm glad you liked my most-read guide!! I put lots of love and bias into it.)

[jayladfanpage]

HI! hush 2 jay appearance thoughts?

Anon I am extremely behind on new releases but I sat my ass down and read this just for you

I mean, Jason didn't really do much in #159 to be honest. I think that it's difficult to judge how he is or isn't being characterized on such a short appearance, especially since Bruce is clearly being an unreliable narrator - see, him insisting that "deep in his heart, Jason still blames Bruce for his death" which is EXPLICITLY textually untrue. Jason EXPLICITLY says he doesn't blame Bruce for his death in their showdown in UTRH, and I know Loeb knows this because he has to have read UTRH for any of this to work. It's the most in-your-face, clear way to put it: Every assumption Bruce makes about Jason's psyche in this comic is wrong. It's clouded with self-righteousness and guilt and grief, getting in the way of understanding how Jason actually thinks. It's honestly pretty clever of Loeb to put it like this! Because if you have Jason directly tell Batman "no, you're wrong!" then it's easy to make it sound like Jason is just being stubborn and a contrarian.

The Bad Person Bruce Wayne lover in me is very excited to see where this goes - I adore it when his hard-set morals ruin his life and he still refuses to change. The Jason Todd lover in me is... proceeding with caution, let's put it like that. It has the potential to be incredible, but only time will tell.

(Also, LOVE the Red Hood design in this. Peak.)

[jayladfanpage]

Jason Todd character info pages from the 1980s

Who's Who: The Definitve Directory of the DC Universe (pre-crisis)

Who's Who: Update '87 (post-crisis)

Batman Annual 13 (after his death)

[jayladfanpage]

Every time someone, whether in-universe or in meta tries to say that Jason's a "loner" I think about two things:

First of all, the fact that Bruce is frequently referred to as a loner, both in universe and out, as if he doesn't literally constantly have his emotional support child and a rotating cast of lovers (sometimes multiple in any given story at once). In this instance, it's used to try and make Bruce seem "cool," which whatever ig.

Batman #359, which, is so fucking funny to me because this is before Batgirl and Talia showed up in this story. Catwoman to. It was a real fucking ensemble. He's berating himself for snapping at Dick, and sending some civilians (The Todds btw) to die, against Dick's advice, because he's being bitchy about Catwoman. Like, my man, you have a mental breakdown every time you're truly alone. You're not a loner but maybe you should be.

Secondly, is Jason a loner or is he just always alone and isolated? Is he a loner or does he just not know how to be any other way? Jason consistently through both pre- and post-crisis express a lot of desire to be around other people/build connections, as well as referencing factors that isolate him from them. (I'm not sourcing every incident here but here's Jay trying to bond with Bruce right after he gets taken in, and some stuff wrt Jason at school)

Detective #527 (Pre-Crisis)

Batman#395 (Pre-Crisis. This is him being jealous of Catwoman, sure, but given how often in this arc it's referenced that he's isolated from the other kids in school- despite being on some kind of presumably sports team. I think it's baseball? I'm trying to find the exact issue that it actually SHOWS him on said team but it is referenced in the issues leading up to when they switch over the histories.)

Batman Annual #12 (This is Post-Crisis)

In Brothers in Blood Jason's trying to reach out to Dick. I'm not saying he did it the right way or that Dick was wrong for rejeting that, but he did literally expressly say that he was trying to reach out to him. in his brief period that he worked with the Titans, it's explicitly stated that he'd had to sneak out from under Batman's nose to join up with them. Jason has a sparse few interactions with mostly adult heroes in Pre-Crisis and the only hero his age he gets to meet is Kid Devil/Eddie Bloomberg and that's nebulously canon or not since Pre/Post-Crisis was a soft, slowly rolled out reboot where they changed a lot of things in retrospect but also implicitly kept others. (N52 was also like this but I get the impression Crisis was marginally more organized.)

UtH was Jason reaching out to Bruce for connection. Again, not really the right way to go about it but he pretty obviously/expressly wanted affirmation that his relationship with Bruce DID matter to someone other than himself because he felt it had been stripped from him and false.

Someone who keeps reaching out to other people, but gets rejected because they did it wrong, is not a loner.

When those attempts fail and he reaches out less and less, that's not loner behavior, that's lonely behavior, maybe even a dash of self-loathing. When he starts sabotaging his relationships further he thinks they're already fucked, that's not loner behavior, that's bad coping mechanisms for childhood trauma. I don't care that they state it exactly that he's some kind of "loner," his actions don't agree with that statement.

Is his status something of a self-fulfilling prophecy at this point? Yeah. I keep seeing people refer to him this way and, jesus. y'all wanna ostracize him so badly sometimes. You don't want him here you don't want him there. You use the "loner" rhetoric to enforce the idea that his isolation is a good thing that he wants. They use it IN UNIVERSE from the mouths of characters who have biased views about him.

If he's such a loner why does he keep going back? Why does he answer every call? Like a beaten, but unfortunately faithful dog that can't help but return to their abusive master.

[jayladfanpage]

"This is the way the world ends—Not with a bang but a whimper." The Hollow Men; T.S. Eliot.

Oh, Jason. The tragedy that you are.

[jayladfanpage]

[jayladfanpage]

I wish you would write a fic where Jason thinks he's an intimidating werewolf and everyone else has to convince him he's just a big pupper, and that's okay!!! (You're right; we do sometimes just need a Big Pupper AU!)

Dick refuses to be cowed by some 'roided up runt.

The second armchair from the right is his favourite seat in the family room, and it is unfortunately Jason's favourite as well. He would have thought that, with tonight being the full moon and all, a werewolf would want to be somewhere out on the vast, wooded manor grounds eating baby rabbits or chasing his tail or something, but apparently their resident lycanthrope feels like having a night in. And while Jason had to take precious time to rinse off his dirty paws in the mudroom (lest he soil Alfred's floors), Dick had kicked his shoes into the coat closet with perfect aim and snagged The Seat for himself in preparation for a post-backyard-soccer-game movie night.

Dick is trying to enjoy the cute little dragon movie Damian put on, wrapped up in one of the old throws they keep in the hall closet just outside the den, except his stupid brother has planted himself between Dick and the screen, staring him down like if an evil horse were a fucked up dog. Dick doesn't need to speak wolf to understand what Jason wants from him; he just doesn't care.

"I got here first, Jase," Dick scoffs. "Will you move, please?"

The large, brown wolf does not move, in fact. His gaze is focused and heated like he's trying to spontaneously develop laser vision and kill Dick dead. He's slowly leaning into Dick, razor-sharp teeth inching closer, hackles raising, a low growl rumbling from his massive furry throat. Those finger-sized claws can (and have) tear bigger men than Dick clean into two. His eyes glow in the dim light, rage crackling behind the hard glare.

It's too bad Dick isn't scared at all. A regular person might feel a chill as an unnaturally huge wolf starts snarling and spittling into his face, but Dick has seen this moron with those goofy prepubescent puppy feet and pathetic little "awoo" howls. Jason looks scary and grimlike now, but all Dick can see is the big puppy who likes romance novels and belly rubs. Ignoring the growls that get louder as his hand gets closer, Dick flicks Jason's angry, scrunched up snout without fear. The wolf's eyes seem to burn with indignant rage, and he snaps his huge, killer maw at Dick's outstretched hand a few times.

"Jason," Duke snaps with exasperation from beside them on the corner couch seat. "Shut up."

The wolf turns his pointed gaze at the teen and Dick flicks him again. Suddenly, a nearly three hundred pound wolf pounces straight at him. The chair nearly tips over, even with the reinforced base that Bruce installed in most of the furniture when he got a kid who liked to do flips off of them.

The chair is just not big enough for two large men—much less one large man and a large wolf draped across his lap—but Dick remembers a time when he and a juvenile wolf fit pretty comfortably with fondness, so he'll accept the loss of feeling in his legs for now. Whatever shuts Jason up for the rest of the movie.

(for the record, wolves get up to like, 180 lbs. jason is a big motherfucker.)

[jayladfanpage]

the sillies

[jayladfanpage]

jason todd, again

[jayladfanpage]

hey hey, i love him??? so much??

[jayladfanpage]

Jason Todd you are me

[jayladfanpage]

i feel like a lot of Jason and Bruce's relationship can only be explained if you understand the depth of Jason's isolation while living with Bruce and the depths of codependency the dynamic fostered.

Unlike Jason's predecessor and his successors, Jason never had a superhero team. He wasn't deeply connected to the superhero community. He didn't really even have friends. His world was school, the manor, and Batman and Robin. Robin, being a piece of his identity and his first sense of belonging. Batman and Robin as a dynamic requires synchronicity and a lack of questioning. It's about doing what Batman says. Jason, who lived in constant fear of being abandoned again, or kicked out, did his damnedest to not step a toe out of line. Jason was looking for safety and a parent who loved him, and Bruce stepped into that role in a way Jason had never experienced before. (mind you, Bruce himself was dealing with the conflicts regarding his relationship with Dick and no longer have Dick's presence.)

When Bruce and Jason started to have tensions themselves over 'excessive force' and the Garzona's situation, that read to Jason like rejection. And rejection, in a codependent relationship is cause for severe alienation and isolation. Jason had zero people to turn to; and the single person he loved most in the world didn't trust him anymore. Bruce had ripped the little bit of emotional safety that Jason felt away. So Jason went to find a mother who might want him.

point is: Jason Todd can never leave Bruce Wayne. Not in the way his other siblings can. Bruce Wayne is the center of his universe, and the only person Jason ever fully trusted. Jason wrapped his identity into being loved by Bruce, into being the son of Bruce. Into being Batman's Robin. Which is why being replaced felt like confirmation of all of his worst fears. It's why nobody else seems to understand the depths of this betrayal the way Jason does. Jason thinks his relationship with Bruce is normal. He thinks that Tim has replaced Jason in this codependent bond. That Tim has somehow played the part better than Jason did.

It's why Red Hood can't ever move on without Bruce proving to him that he is worth killing the Joker for. It's why Jason keeps crawling back to the batfamily despite the constant cycle of abuse and conflict. Bruce is gravity, Bruce is the sun, and Jason's world revolves around him and what Bruce says about him. If Bruce says Jason isn't worth it, then he's not. If Bruce says Jason is, then he is. They're soOOoO "Love me like a god and I'll betray you like a man" "I bet on losing dogs" "i'm going to die in the universe you loved me in (before you decided you didn't)" "I was fifteen when you left and I have been fifteen ever since" "losing your faith in your parents feels like losing faith in your religion"

@prlssprfctn <- bless you for this panel <3

[jayladfanpage]

The thing is that even in the interpretation of "Bruce let the kids be Robin because they would've gone out on their own otherwise" you can't actually deny Bruce's selfishness, at least when it comes to Jason. Even with the idea that Jason wouldn't have gone home with Bruce if he hadn't been offered Robin (which I don't subscribe to,) Bruce still only took him in because he missed Dick.

"Oh but you just said that he would've been running around alone anyway-" Bruce made Dick step down from being Robin because Dick got shot during a fight with Joker and almost fell to his death. Bruce specifically ended Robin because he couldn't risk Dick dying. And yet when Jason comes around- they meet twice before he offers Jason the position of Robin. And when Dick asks about it?

Bruce outright admits that Jason was there because he'd missed Dick. Because he felt lonely. In universe, Bruce knew that the idea of a child sidekick was both dangerous and senseless, and yet he still took a child home, put him in his eldest's clothes and took him out into the night to get himself killed. Which Bruce knew would could happen.

It doesn't matter if Jason would've gotten himself killed on the streets anyway. Bruce's decision to make him Robin wasn't based on that. It was based on selfishness and the love he has for Dick Grayson and Dick Grayson alone.

If Dick had come crawling back on his knees and begged to be Robin again Bruce would have all but shut him off. But Jason (and the other, subsequent children) have always been less valuable than Dick. So he can take them out to die, because it means he keeps Dick alive.

[jayladfanpage]

Two jasons…..for the price of one.