mistyspiral

[mistyspiral]

im sure this has been said a lot on here but seriously

normalize not having emotional empathy

a person's ability, or lack thereof, to feel what others feel does not make them good or bad inherently

[mistyspiral]

If you don’t believe RAMCOA/TBMC is a genuine thing, please block me

I’m tired of seeing people post about how “it doesn’t exist” and say that “ramcoa doesn’t exist but the trauma does.” It’s irritating to be told what I went through doesn’t exist and does exist at the same time.

It’s important to hear survivors and to be able to understand that this shit happens and still does. Cults, trafficking rings, etc. they all happen. Just because you think that someone can’t force a system doesn’t mean it’s not possible. Do you know how much trauma that someone faces within shit like that? How easy it is for someone to see that there’s so much dissociation and use it against them?

I’m tired of so many people thinking that ramcoa survivors aren’t real. We are, we exist.

If you don’t believe it, please block me.

[mistyspiral]

therapist validated that based on what we know, it seems like I was programmed

[mistyspiral]

just revealed to my therapist details of my trauma that I think obviously point to it being [ramcoa] (didn't use that term but a specific situation that would fall under it). I'm already dreading my next session cause I kinda for my own sanity wanna be like "I LIED!!! IM A LIAR AND A FRAUD!! NONE OF IT IS REAL!!" (spoiler: its not)

[mistyspiral]

Anyone dx'd with schizophrenia that DOESN'T experience delusions and hallucinations? Is that possible? Recently I've been circling back to thinking I may be on the schizophrenia spectrum. But I don't experience hallucinations or delusions (besides 2 brief episodes of having a singular delusion- which were years apart).

I tend to describe what I experience as "hallucinations and delusions lite". I think I've read it being described as "perceptual distortions" and "magical thinking". It's due to the fact I tend to have insight on the experiences in the moment... as well as it being not as substantial. My "distortions" tend to be things like an object moving or changing shape when it's not, or background noise being heard as something else vaguely? Idk. It's like real things I can perceive but slightly off. "Magical Thinking" for me is like loosely stringed together ideas that are strange but I entertain a bit too much. It's not really a stern belief.

The closest thing that captures my experience has been Attenuated Psychosis Syndrome. It's currently in the DSM under "Other Specified Schizophrenia Spectrum and Other Psychotic Disorder" but is also proposed to having it's own section.

But it doesn't say anything about disorganized behavior or negative symptoms like in schizophrenia- which I do experience. So I'm unsure.

[mistyspiral]

cw: sex mention, vent It feels like my system is destabilized right now. It's hard to have a grip on anything. I'm essentially having mood swings like crazy (strong passive influence I think) and everything else about having parts is so overwhelming right now.

When I switch back in after R was out (most active part currently besides me- they spend a lot of time with my partner) it's so profoundly surreal. I keep having anxiety attacks because I'm too oddly aware of the time lost when I switch with R. I'm here at home for a few hours- then it's 4 days later and I'm at work. Back and forth. It's not like this wasn't exactly happening before... so I don't know what the issue is. My partner positively triggers out R so oftentimes when around my partner, R is the one out. So no surprise that spending time with the partner a lot (again, nothing new) means I'll lose chunks of time. But oh my god. This is too much.

Then both R and I keep getting waves of intense anger over the littlest things- with E (another part) screaming profanities in our head over whatever triggered their anger. This is affecting R more than me because our partner could do literally the most miniscule thing and it'll be perceived as a threat, then it's just chaos internally, and we shut down. There also waves of other emotions / voices from other parts but those are less externally disruptive.

There's also a something-not-new-but-is-causing-me-distress-thing happening where the idea of what R experiences when I'm not there is distressing as well. I don't *really* know the partner- I don't interact with them almost ever, that's not my focus. I am also uninterested towards avoidant of sex. For some reason, I am now more strongly overwhelmed with the idea that R is having sex with the partner. It's technically ME doing that (body and all) but it's like WHAT THE HELL.

The dichotomy between my selves and what we experience, through a relentless series of "jump cuts", is driving me crazy. I wish there was more fluidity and coherence- that feels like the issue.

Why is it so hard to keep it together?

[mistyspiral]

It’s so embarrassing to have dissociative amnesia.

We failed tests back in high school because of covert switching and splitting. We got yelled at by people offering to help us study who couldn’t wrap their head around the fact that we obviously couldn’t control our amnesia. We were told to “just learn it, then.” We forget how to do basic things we’ve done a million times before, things we were doing without any trouble seconds before switching. We forget about events. We forget the names and faces of loved ones. It’s fucking misery and I’m sick of people treating it like it’s a negligible symptom that doesn’t cause disruption and despair.

I 100% agree that amnesia can be so embarasing

People always think amnesia is a black and white thing, normally people will associate amnesia to old age and therefore when you show symptoms of having amnesia it can be very embarrassing, not only because of the situations you end up but people talking about you and making a perspective of you like bad just because something you didn't choose

Problems like this can be so debilitating for someone and cause disruption in daily life more often than people give credit for. The amount of times I forgot how to tie my shoes is unbelievable for me and many people who know me, and like this forgetting a "basic" skill and ability can happen at any time and it's pretty fucked up

Amnesia brings out a lot for problems for someone with CDD and makes the adaptive skill of life so difficult, people normally say that amnesia isn't that big of a deal in the CDDs, but it really is...

[mistyspiral]

Every fucking time without fail

[mistyspiral]

Got once again told that I was "good at making conversation" and had "people and communication skills"

and that is the biggest lie I ever heard

so a girl will end up writing some sort of "practical guide to making conversation, by a recovering agoraphobic".

But also. If you need a "how to people when no social skills" guide right now, my absolute no bullshit guide is The Shyness and Social Anxiety Workbook (2018, 3rd ed), esp chap 8 and 10. Includes: how long is appropriate to look at someone in the eyes? What are good conversation topics for your neighbors, your colleagues, your boss, your date? How to safely practice social skills/conversation? How to handle shaking/blushing/sweating/nervous stuttering? How is talking to a group different from talking to one person? How to gracefully end a conversation? How to ask for a change at your work schedule? How to start getting better at it *progressively* without being overwhelmed?

It's not a feel good self help/self improvement book, it is not a magic remedy with secret formula, it is more of a "let's learn a new language", with homework and notes to take. Give it a try, it is very easy to find it online

[mistyspiral]

we are so ableist about memory. people with good memory take for granted the fact that they can recall as much as they can, and use that to taunt, guilt and threaten people with memory issues. many neurotypes and mental illnesses cause memory lapses. traumatic brain injuries can cause memory lapses. brain cancer can cause memory lapses.

even if your memory is good, it's not right to guilt someone because they can't remember something. trust me, people with memory problems are desperately trying to remember: it's just that we literally can't. it is a very literal "i can't remember".

[mistyspiral]

"demedicalizing" complex dissociative disorders caused by severe and repeated trauma is wild

[mistyspiral]

Host: Hiii bestie I finally figured out why I haven't been able to express anger since 2012😍 May I introduce someone to you?👀

* the angriest mf known to man fronts *

[mistyspiral]

I’ve been written up a FEW times from mainly seeming lost and confused like I “don’t know where I am and what I’m supposed to be doing” (real quote from my manager). I’ve also been told by my managers that I’m extremely inconsistent in every aspect of how I work and how I present/behave at my job (they’ve noted some days I’m very social, sometimes taking priority on socialization rather than work, and other times I am reserved and lacking in customer service, etc). Not to mention the amount of times I’ll have an episode (PTSD, severe dissociation, or both) and have to leave early or call out. I am currently fearful of loosing my job.

My healing/recovery journey has been quite sporadic. I technically really haven’t gotten far in terms of the treatment model for DID. Finding and sticking with a good therapist is difficult. But just post-discovery and gaining acceptance and awareness has been helpful on its own over time!

Hey yall, open-ended question: in your opinion and in your experiences, how has having a CDD affected your specific area of work (or if you don't work, your hobbies, school, or any other aspect of your day to day life)? And, if applicable, have there been any differences throughout your healing and recovery journey? (pre-system discovery, post-stabilization, during trauma work, post-integrations, post-fusions, etc.?)

[mistyspiral]

i believe survivors of RAMCOA when they talk about the abuse they suffered, but the one thing i cannot wrap my head around is how abusers purposefully program alters? and this makes the moral ocd worms in my brain go NUTS.

i think i dont understand bc not every child who goes through severe torture/abuse will develop DID/OSDD and it feels way more probable that abusers arent attempting to make alters so much as theyre conditioning certain responses (and if a childs brain happens to split these experiences into alters then thats a byproduct that benefits the abuser).

all of this makes me feel like a bad ally to RAMCOA survivors, and while its not your job to educate me would you mind explaining how the programming alters aspect works?

[Trigger warning: talking about how programming works and why not all children who experience RAMCOA develop DID or may not end up becoming fully programmed. Brief mentions of child death. Mentions of child torture. Nothing in detail, obviously. Also talking a lot about how the deprogramming process works. If you are a programmed system yourself and you worry this could be triggering, have grounding items nearby just in case.]

Note: when I say “successfully” or “properly” programmed system, I’m talking about in the eyes of the abusers. Also, this is talking about TBMC (torture based mind control) programmers. I have to put that disclaimer because you wouldn’t believe how many confused computer programmers I’ve gotten in comment sections on other socials.

So, the reason not every child who goes through RAMCOA develops DID is because developing DID requires some pre-requisites. Things like genetic predisposition to dissociate actually do make a big difference. Also, how early the abuse started. If someone goes through RAMCOA trauma, but not until they’re older and their personality has already begun integrating (which can happen younger in some children, even as young as around age 5-7, though some researchers have said personality integration can happen as late as the teen years) it will be significantly harder to develop DID and therefore properly program the child. In addition, how much access programmers have to the child, how long they had access to the child, and how much support the child has outside of the abuse are also contributing factors.

If programmers see this kid one week out of the month, the parents don’t know about it and therefore the kid has a relatively okay home life with love and support, and they only have access to the kid for a couple years, that’s not going to be good grounds for programmers being able to properly do what they want to do. Some may still try if they don’t have access to anyone else, but this rarely creates a “successful” programmed system. Conversely, if they see the kid every day or multiple days a week, a parent is in on it/they have a bad home life where abuse (of possibly a lesser magnitude but not always) occurs, the parents are neglectful or very busy and likely to not notice things, and they have access to this kid for several years, that makes for a better chance that this kid will be properly programmed.

Because of all of these factors, programmers will often pick children who they know have parents with PTSD or CPTSD (or a dissociative disorder, if the parent has disclosed that to them), who they can access early in their life or have prior history of abuse (so are more likely to already have begun developing a dissociative disorder), and whom they have access to frequently. Sometimes, the child’s parent will be programmed by the group themselves and be born quite literally just to be programmed by the group. Some groups take great care in keeping family groups within the group because that creates stronger loyalty bonds and gives them easy access to children to program. It’s not uncommon for a group goal to be for their grown programmed systems to have kids to eventually give to the group, which is why apprehending a programmed system and having them work on deprogramming before this can happen is essential.

A lot of kids that programmers desire to program actually end up “failing out” because they aren’t able to take to the programming. Depending on the group, this could mean they will end the kid’s life or they will just stop the programming-related abuse altogether. And contrary to what most people know, even successfully programmed children have loads of failed programs, or parts that didn’t take well to programming. Most of the time these parts who have failed programming will be put in “discard areas” in the system’s inner world, and they will be either forced into dormancy or they will be stuck there until amnesia barriers eventually break down as the grown person starts to work on deprogramming (if they ever do.) A successfully programmed system’s most active parts are parts who did not fail their programming, and these are often the most well-rounded parts retrofitted with a personality that would have likely been created by the abusers.

To add: there is often layers upon layers of amnesia even in these single well-rounded parts (that often end up having an alters-in-alters subsystem, and said part might not even be aware they have one) and the “top part” or most front-facing part of that subsystem may not even be aware they are programmed. At least, until a cue happens and their program starts running and they start doing things they wouldn’t normally be doing. A lot of programmed parts don’t even know their own cues or even what traumas they have that would have created their programming. They might know they have trauma, but the memories of the programming might be missing, or the context surrounding the programming traumas might be missing. Usually these cues and context behind the traumas are hidden in EPs or fragments that are buried pretty deep within their subsystems. Accessing these EPs in therapy is integral to the deprogramming process, as learning what manipulations were done to make a programmed part believe what they do is essential in undoing it. All deprogramming really is, is showing programmed parts that what their abusers made them believe was true is a lie and that they are not at risk to be harmed anymore if they no longer have contact with the group. (Cutting off a system’s communication with the group is first and foremost what they should do when deprogramming)

As for your assumption, that abusers are trying to condition children and these experiences happen to split an alter to hold the conditioned response, you are partially right. In some cases, especially in cases where it’s a single parent or a family unit doing this to their own kids, it’s often more likely that the parent is not fully aware that they are creating a DID system. This is where the difference between programming and conditioning is important to note. We made a video about this here: link to TikTok video.

However, in larger groups, programmers do know they are creating a system. DID is not some unknown secret to much of the world, and research about it is easy to find. Even inexperienced groups can find research on DID and how alters form very easily and use that to try and create a system in a child. Whether or not they will be successful with that info alone is hard to say. I was abused by two different groups, one of them inexperienced and one of them very experienced. The initial attempts at programming were often unsuccessful, and we assume they got in contact with the experienced group to learn more and they essentially showed our main handler/programmer how it was done. (We have memories of him being taught and observing/taking part as necessary to the teachings, so this is not speculation, we know this was the case.) Once we were in the hands of the experienced group, we became very well programmed and our system’s organization changed massively. On top of that, the inexperienced group was now experienced, so we actually have alters who are programmed by two separate groups, each loyal to their own group. Some of our parts were loyal to both because they were programmed by both. (“Were” loyal because we’ve deprogrammed significantly and they no longer feel loyal to the groups anymore.)

Like I said in my initial post, programming alters is actually not that complicated on the surface, though in practice it is difficult, and to create a well programmed system takes a lot of skill and intelligence. Skilled programmers are unfortunately often incredibly smart individuals. Anyone who’s been willing to speak with me about their programmers often cite them as being people with high level college degrees. Doctors, engineers, mathematicians, scientists, psychologists. If not a college degree, they often work in areas like police work, political work, religious ministry, or other city/county/state positions. If none of these, they (horrifyingly) tend to work in areas where children are often present. Pediatric doctors/nurses, summer camp counselors, Sunday school teachers, daycare attendants, nannying jobs, teaching, etc. While not all programmers will fit this bill, a lot of them do. In the world outside of their programming job, they are often well-liked by their community. This is not to say everyone in these positions is a programmer, also. Want to make that REALLY clear. Not every person with this job has a secret side job of torturing kids, these just happen to be common areas they tend to gravitate toward. They are often thrill-seeking sadists and egocentric. Having a position in their community in which they are consistently recognized for their accomplishments or adored is often important to them. Sometimes, programmers are also programmed themselves, especially in large groups with generational aspects involved.

Now that that’s out of the way, I’m not going to explain in explicit detail how programming works because that doesn’t make me comfortable to share, but a very dumbed down version of it is pretty simple:

1) torture child to create alter splits

2) get one of these splits to front via triggers related to the torture that caused them to split

3) indoctrinate them with a behavior or action that, if they do not do that action, means they will be punished further. While they are doing said action/being indoctrinated with certain beliefs, have a specific trigger or cue present so that when they see that trigger/cue in the future, they will immediately do the action/enforce the beliefs they have been taught.

4) repeat steps 1-3, basically.

This is why I explained that programming is kind of like conditioning on steroids. Except the child is severely manipulated, tortured, and has extreme threats of harm to self or others to reinforce it, and this is done repeatedly, to the point where it causes the alter extreme duress if they do not do their assigned task because if they didn’t do their task in the past (in childhood) they would be tortured or would have to witness other children be tortured. They will fully believe if they do not do the thing, they or others WILL be hurt, and they believe the programmers WILL know if they don’t, so they often just do it automatically in efforts to avoid the punishment they believe is coming. It is extremely hard for them to override the emotional flashbacks, somatic flashbacks, etc, if they try to resist doing the task. Adding onto that, programmers will often create alters who will punish parts in the inner world the same way the abusers would if they do not do their task, so that is another layer of fear on top of that. These programmed parts often cannot distinguish the difference between outer world torture and inner world torture, as they rarely get contact with the outside world except to do their tasks. So if they don’t do their task, they will be punished by alters in the inner world space and they may fully believe they are being punished in real life. Creating safe spaces for alters to go in the inner world if they don’t do their assigned task is an important part of deprogramming. Because once an alter realizes they will not be punished both externally and internally by not doing a certain action, they will be much less inclined to do said action.

If all of that sounds extremely messed up and fucks with your moral OCD, you’re right to feel that way. It is messed up. These people are vile, fucked up, and cruel. They often do not see the children as human beings and care not of how much this damages the child physically, psychologically, and emotionally. These children are dehumanized beyond belief. Many programmed parts of a system do not see themselves as human unless they were specifically meant to be human. Commonly created alters are things with no free will or no ability to think for themselves, such as angels, robots, and inanimate objects. If a child truly believes they cannot think for themselves, it will be harder to deprogram them. Which is why deprogramming often involves teaching the grown system that they are allowed to make choices outside of their group’s desires and control. It is not easy.

For those that read this and are feeling dissociated and/or anxious, remember your grounding techniques. Get some mints, cinnamon candies, or sour candies and munch. Smell a strong scented candle. Hold some ice or hand warmers in your hands. Look around the room and pick out items that you recognize to be from the present. Pet a cat/dog/[insert animal here] or hug a stuffed animal. Remember, it is currently 2024 and you are safe. Your abusers will not know you read this unless you tell them yourself. You are brave, capable, and safe. I believe in you and your healing journey.

Take care, everyone.

[mistyspiral]

Photo Credit- Unknown

[mistyspiral]

I know this can represent anything or anyone however for me this feels very much like a representation of a Persecutor

[mistyspiral]

Do you have any resources for RAMCOA? Resources for like...the types of programs and stuff like that. We're going through things and trying to research and pinpoint things, but finding resources has been absolute hell. If you get this twice, I'm sorry. Our tumblr is kind of shit.

Hello! I have several resources that I think may be helpful to you:

This document (LINK) of "rare programs" and their descriptions, posted by @killercatboys.

Chapters 4 and 7 of Becoming Yourself by Alison Miller (LINK) discuss programming and chapter 7 includes an anecdote with specific programs and definitions. The entire book is really a great read and is geared towards survivors of RAMCOA, just be sure to take it slow and take care of yourself.

Common Programs Observed in Survivors of Satanic Ritualistic Abuse by David W. Neswald (LINK) - massive trigger warning for suicide, self-harm, and abuse.

Spin Programming: A Newly Uncovered Technique of Systematic Mind Control by John D. Lovern (LINK) - includes symptoms, implementation, and uses of spin programs; trigger warning for abuse/torture methods.

Healing the Unimaginable by Alison Miller (LINK) is geared towards therapists and professionals and includes more in-depth information about RAMCOA than Becoming Yourself does. Again, massive trigger warning throughout the book for RAMCOA.

Kinds of Torture Endured in Ritual Abuse and Trauma-Based Mind Control by Ellen P. Lacter (LINK) - partial list of torture methods used in RAMCOA; trigger warning for abuse, near-death, and torture.

Mind Control: Simple to Complex by Ellen P. Lacter (LINK) - describes twelve "stages" of mind control and programming, going from outward compliance to torture/trauma-based mind control; trigger warning for descriptions of abuse.

Some Indicators of Trauma-Based Mind Control Programming by Ellen P. Lacter (LINK) provides common indicators of TBMC; most survivors of programming will have many of these indicators, but their presence does not prove the existence of TBMC and their absence does not prove that one has not experienced TBMC.

Adult and Adolescent Indicators of Ritual Trauma by Ellen P. Lacter (LINK) provides indicators of ritual abuse in teens and adults; as with the last bullet point, their presence does not prove ritual abuse and their absence does not disprove it.

Child Indicators of Ritual Abuse Trauma in Play and Art by Ellen P. Lacter (LINK) provides potential indicators of ritualized abuse in children and pre-teens; as with the previous two bullet points, their presence does not prove ritual abuse and their absence does not disprove it.