#-👁️‍🗨️//Jon

[somepoetwannabe]

You don't have to answer, but I'm just curious:

What, to you, makes DID/OSDD more "proven" then non-disordered systemhood? That seems to be the point you keep coming back to.

Because OSDD/DID weren't always medically recognized. Does that mean before they were medically recognized, plurality itself wasn't real?

You INHERENTLY can't "prove" a subjective experience, and to apply that logic to anything psychological in nature is to ignore the limitations of psychology as a science, which is itself anti-scientific.

I don't have dyslexia. If I suddenly declared that dyslexia isn't real because I don't have it and nobody can objectively 100% without a shadow of a doubt prove to me that it is, regardless of how much supportive evidence there is, I'd still be wrong.

I will never experience the same experiences as a dyslexic person. Doesn't mean I can't acknowledge that the patterns in the wider human population heavily suggest that it's a neurodivergency that exists, because hey, there are all of these people with dyslexia symptoms!

Similarly, there are all of these people claiming to have symptoms of plural experiences without trauma. Not my experience, but ignoring it would be stupid.

And the idea that it must not be "real plurality," but that it could be something else is... I hate to say it, but that's ableist. "Ableist" in this case being used as a word for prejudice against neurodivergent people, yes including those whose neurodivergency may not be a disability in a vacuum but very much is within a societal context, such as endogenic systems.

(^ I could write a lot more on this point in particular, of why the word "ableism" actually is applicable in this situation, but that's ultimately not the point of this ask.)

First off using people with psychosis as your argumentative scapegoat just alienates psychotic systems, and yes, those two things don't cancel out. Even if it was psychosis that doesn't rule out systemhood as a possibility, and the possible interactions between psychosis and plurality definitely aren't studied enough to make that claim.

Also you're inherently promoting the idea that neurodivergent people should not be trusted to speak on their own experiences, which is ableism. I don't think there's any room to argue on that fact.

Especially given that plurality as a subject is extraordinarily under-researched. Even OSDD/DID are far from fully understood.

- A (traumagenic!) system member with a passion for psychology who doesn't really appreciate how y'all have presented psychology as a field.

(Sorry if I come off as rude, I speak rather bluntly but I'm not trying to offend. I am genuinely trying to engage in productive conversation. /Gen)

DID/OSDD is medically recognized, with an accepted theory of how it is formed and a known way/ways to treat it. That is what I regard as “proof” so to speak. You are right, DID/OSDD were not always medically recognized, and I would not claim they were not real prior to medical recognition. However, I do not claim endogenics are completely impossible or definitely do not exist, nor do I refuse to treat them with empathy and respect. I simply offer alternative explanations for endogenic experiences, and possibilities more medically supported than the idea of them being systems. Because of this, I am not entirely sure what your point is here. Just because something might be possible doesn’t mean I should immediately believe it. What I am saying is, without substantial evidence, I have no reason to believe in the idea of endogenic systems being possible. You cannot expect me to trust claims, and I hope you can acknowledge why I may not. Especially online. The idea you cannot prove a subjective experience is…interesting. I am no expert on matters of psychology – I have no qualifications and am simply a high school student with an interest in it – so I am not qualified to speak on that. However, I am yet to see psychology support the idea of endogenic systems. I am also unsure what you mean by “anti-science”. Again, I do not actively claim endogenics are not real, as there is as little evidence to support that as there is to support that they are real. It is not that nobody can 100% prove to me it is, but rather nobody can prove to me at all (as far as I have seen). “Regardless of how much supportive evidence there is"…there is no (or at least none I have been exposed to) evidence for endogenics, but please feel free to give resources if you have any. I am open to be proven wrong. “I will never experience the same experiences as a dyslexic person. Doesn't mean I can't acknowledge that the patterns in the wider human population heavily suggest that it's a neurodivergency that exists, because hey, there are all of these people with dyslexia symptoms!” People lie. That is a reality of life. There is proof of dyslexia [neurobiology supports the idea of dyslexia and there is an understanding of how it occurs in people, though not what causes it] and they are medically recognized. I do not ignore endogenic experiences, as that would be irrational. I would be screaming into a void and arguing against a blank wall. Listening to endogenics is something I must do to come to a reasonable conclusion on whether I believe there is a possibility it is possible to be endogenic. I’d need you to elaborate on the ableist point. I’m not quite sure how it is ableist to propose that there may be other explanations for endogenic experiences. For me, this would only apply if endogenics were supported by psychology and had a suitable theory on how they occur but I was simply choosing to ignore the already fitting explanation. That is not what I am doing. I am not claiming to know other people's experiences better than they do, I am not saying for a definite I know what causes endogenics to experience something akin to plurality. Also, you cannot be ableist to someone who is not disabled. You may say or do things that stem from ableist belief systems, but you cannot be ableist to an abled person. I don’t understand what you mean by “may not be a disability in a vacuum but very much is within a societal context”, you are either disabled or you are not. While someone’s disability may not affect them every second, even when their disability is not affecting them disabled people are disabled nonetheless. Please do feel free to elaborate on these points. (1/2)

[tideswept]

Trick or treat 🍭tma, if you don't mind? Or kingsman

From this ask game |

🕸️ ᴀɴᴅ ʏᴏᴜʀ ᴛʀᴇᴀᴛ ɪs…! 👁️‍🗨️

A Beholding's Own Drabble!

(set after the events in chapter 36, aka, Jon Got Better)

"What did it feel like?" Jonah rests his cheek over Jon's heart. It's still beating fast from their lovemaking. Their skin is tacky, and the air is muggy, window cranked open to the night sounds of Edinburgh.

Dying, he means, but doesn't clarify. Not when he can feel his thoughts stretched thin like spider silk, like instead of the reality of Jon petting his hair, Jon is instead drawing out the threads and spinning then between his fingers, fondly examining the contents of his mind and soul in an effortless show of power.

(Jon loathes comparisons between him and the Mother, so Jonah tucks that analogy away into a deeper recess that Jon won't probe at without good reason.)

"Cold," says Jon. His tone is flat. "Cold and vast and empty. Like I was every atom between the stars, every grain of sand on every planet, but I was also the in-between, the nothingness that separates everything."

"An abstraction," Jonah suggests.

"No; an absolute, unrelenting reality."

There's a shift, and Jon's palm smooths down to cup Jonah's nape, his thumb digging into bone, sending little flames of pleasure and pain radiating from the point of contact until there's a bonfire behind Jonah's closed eyelids. "I was in the air you breathed as you walked the hallways of Rayner's mansion, I was in the drops of blood a dying mother shed on the other side of the world. I was there, and I was nowhere. Contained and ever-present."

Jonah contemplates that. His flesh crawls with goosebumps. "No dreams, no vagueness, no respite. No you."

"No me," agrees Jon, still in a monotone, as if every death-tinged memory and sentiment has been wiped bare of color, leaving a stark chiaroscuro where passion should have thrived.

There's a reason they don't speak much on the matter of Jon's death.

But never again. The stage is set, and the Watcher's Crown is waiting. The Eye is opening.

Death has ruled for long enough.

[thecardiovascular-system]

🫀INTRO THING🫀

atlas - he/it 🐦‍⬛

frodrick - it/he 🍓

shard - it/they 🐉

good lird we look like the christmas crew over here

shut up

NEW PERSON WE ARE NO LONGER THE CHRISTMAS CREW‼️‼️‼️

kinger - he/him ♟️

allsi - it/bone/dark/light 👁️‍🗨️

perfectly - he/it 🖍️

ghost - she/he/it/burn/meat 🕯️

General Mangrove - he/they/it 🌳

Cain/Violet - he/they 📱

ramsey - he/they 🐀

andromeda - she/they/it 🐦

pine - he/it/they/plush/soft 🦕

archer - he/it/they/arrow/caw 🏹

liam - he/they 🎒

mess - they/it ✉️

Jon - he/they/it 📚

The Sad Conductor - he/they/it 🚇

Phoenix - any pronouns 🌷

Websurfer - they/it/he 🏄‍♂️

Ricky/Savannah - xe/zir/she/he/they/it/meow/cat/space/star 👾

Spud! - he/she/they 🥔

Pest - he/they 🪲

Crowley - he/any 🐍

Tpm - he/they 🟣

DR. SUNSHINE - ANY PRONOUNS ☀️

henry - they/xe/hymn/it 🫐

[you-can-be-what-you-want-to-be]

What’s the Elias Martin soulmate au 👁️‍🗨️

sigh…… so I wrote out an outline with a friend and promise I’ll get to it SOMEDAY… I’m just not that into TMA anymore.

But the idea is basically they all have soulmate marks but they’re on the persons body, so through sheer misfortune, OG Elias was supposed to be Jons soulmate. maybe make him take a fucking hit and chill out. Fancy academic dude who went to fancy college who tells him to stop worrying about snobs opinions or something. Idk it doesn’t really matter to the plot, what DOES matter is Jonah uses this to his advantage to manipulate Jon worse and make it a more difficult time, especially in season three where Jon is realizing he’s less and less human and Jonah is of course like answering the questions of Jon’s morality questions with just. Comparing them. And the archives are worse to Jon bc. That guy trapping them is his soul mate of course they can’t trust Jon.

and this is about the time Jonah sees Martins soulmark for the first time, and takes it as fates sign he was supposed to live this long and destroy the world. Why else give him a soulmate over a hundred years from his life span? This makes it far more interesting for him and makes it potentially easier to solve? He just doesn’t get why Martin of all people yet, doesn’t see him as manipulative and complex yet, but he’s going to slowly be realizing how much alike they are.

then season 4: he’s in jail and making things worse fkdkdkdkd. For shits and giggles Elias is trying to push Jon closer to Martin and then guilt trip him about how he’s getting closer to another man while leaving his soulmate alone in jail, and also implying without saying that Peter might be Martins soulmate, comments how he knows who it is and it’s an older man who’s a bit manipulative and is involved with the institute, ect. It’s mostly for the laugh but it ALSO works for his bet with Peter. He needs Martin to not be cut off enough that he’ll actually kill him and he needs Jon attached and guilty enough to chase him.

then there would be a long LONG bit in the safe house where they now know elias is martins soulmate, but they’re choosing each other. But it’s a horrifying realization for him for sure, he worries about the kind of person he is, and the fact he is dating Jon who Elias had fooled around with is also not helping him both because 1) it proves that they have something in common and 2) does this mean he’s hurting Jon as well? If his soulmate is a monster doesn’t that make HIM a monster? And maybe Jon’s just with him out of guilt or to do damage control? Jon is also spiraling in a similar matter but got most of his out of the way when he thought Elias was still his soulmate. Still though, so much of his talk of being a monster was dependent on his relation to Elias and now his boyfriend is ACTUALLY the man’s soulmate, so it’s a bit of that situation where your parents insult themselves and you see it and put it on yourself? Like Martin sees Jon aligning himself with being a monster as confirmation HES a monster, so you get a similar situation to season five with the push to repress the inhuman bits.

there was supposed to be something about season five with Martin and Elias kind of duking it out via Jon but that was planned pre season five so I’d have to redo that 😅

[jaumesclub]

🎬19 #CINEJAU Les estrenes de cine de la setmana!!! El programa CINEJAU s'emet cada dijous a les 10 del vespre al canal JauFibla de Twitch, i ara us portem en diferit aquesta festa a Youtube! 🎉 Si ets un amant del cinema i del carismàtic sex symbol Jau Fibla, aquesta és la teva oportunitat de submergir-te en un món de pel·lícules, humor i entreteniment, i tot presentat en català! 🍿🎥 A la cartellera d'aquesta setmana hi trobem autèntiques joies cinematogràfiques: "Los Asesinos de la Luna" 🌙 El retorn d'Scorsese a l'escena amb una pel·lícula que promet trastornar les teves emocions. "Mi otro Jon" 👻 Una comèdia espanyola que et farà riure fins que et faci mal la panxa, i potser hagis d'anar al lavabo, amb la llegendaria Carmen Maura. "Juego prohibido" 👁️‍🗨️ Hideo Nakata, el director de "The Ring," ens ofereix una nova experiència de por i misteri, i potser un xic de vergonya aliena. "El reino animal" 🦄 Una pel·lícula de fantasia que ha sorprès a Cannes i Sitges, segur que ens farà viatjar a mons salvatges. "La isla roja" 🌍 Un drama francès que denuncia el colonialisme a Madagascar. "El legado" 🕵️ Basada en una famosa novel·la de misteri que et mantindrà enganxat des del principi fins al final. "Vermeer: la mayor exposición de la historia" 🎨 Un documental que ens descubrirà tots els secrets d'aquest gran pintor. "Nyad" 🏊 Jodie Foster i Annette Bening ens porten una història real sobre una nadadora que, com les dues actrius, ho dóna tot. "O home e o can" 🐶 Manuel Manquiña ens sorprèn en aquest drama en blanc i negre ple d'emocions. "Camino de la suerte" 💑 Tito Valverde i Maria Jesús Sirvent ens transporten a una història romàntica entre persones grans. "Conversaciones sobre el odio" 😡 Un drama argentí amb Cecilia Roth que ens farà reflexionar sobre temes importants. "Bidasoa 2018-2023" 📢 Fermín Muguruza dirigeix un documental de denúncia social que no et pots deixar de veure. "Madre no hay más que una" 🤱 Un documental espanyol que aborda la maternitat en tota la seva grandesa. Prepareu-vos per una nova dosi de cinema i entreteniment amb el trempadíssim Jau Fibla! No us ho podeu perdre! 😄 Subscriviu-vos al canal i feu clic a la campana per estar al dia de tots els continguts! #Losasesinosdelaluna #nyad #jaufibla #jautv #català #totoro 

[yo-sostenible]

Syngenta, su herbicida paraquat y el negocio de envenenar

👁️‍🗨️ La multinacional Syngenta, productora de semillas transgénicas y agrotóxicos, fue denunciada por impactos en la salud provocados por su herbicida paraquat. Entrevista al toxicólogo y ex empleado de la compañía, Jon Heylings, que detalla los encubrimientos corporativos, la corrupción científica y la complicidad de los organismos de control. Por Anabel Pomar “Probablemente esta sea una de…

[catsnraincoats-archive]

TMA as things said in one of my groupchats

Tim Stoker:

[ID:. a message reading "My gender is actually hawaiian shirt fun fact end ID]

The Beholding:

[ID: a message reading 👁️‍🗨️👄👁️‍🗨️ end ID]

Peter Lukas (Left) and Elias Bouchard (Right:

[ID: messages between two people. the right oke says "You fish fucking boi" abd the left one says "I love fucking fish man. You want to be the fish." end ID]

Melanie King:

[ID: a message reading "We have an hour to commit a crime" end ID]

Jane Prentiss and Helen (Or Michael):

[ID: a message reading "You're tall gor a worm and I'm shortish for a cryptid so I think it evens out" end ID]

NotSasha:

[ID: a message reading "I'm you but if you stopped listening to 100 gecs and started killing families like the rest of us" end ID]

Martin Kartin Blackwood:

[ID: A series of messages reading "Do not drink milk you're cowphobic. Lactose intolerant. I forgot the word." end ID]

Nikola Orsinov (Left) and Jon Sims (Right):

[ID: messages between two people. the left says "Its just in the prototype phase, but they've created a phone case that looks and feels like human skin, and if thats not the most fucked up thing-" the right reads "what. WHAT. No but eating phone cases is, like, bad." end ID]

Archive assistants:

[ID: a message reading "Life Hack: die" end ID]

Anatomy Students:

[ID: messages reading "I know what, like, 26.8% of my organs do and the rest just vibe. one of them has acid right?" end ID]

[somepoetwannabe]

Can somebody explain to me why tumblr is transphobic to trans women? I keep seeing posts about it but I don't know what exactly is going on, could someone please inform me?

[somepoetwannabe]

A reminder to all endogenics that it is not ableism to scrutinize the validity of your claimed disorder. It is science. That is the proper way of doing things, and trying to scare a community of traumatized people (DID/OSDD) into simply accepting supposition as truth is considerably worse than what you call “sysmeds”.

[somepoetwannabe]

I am going to lose my mind if I hear one more person group NPD and/or ASPD in with literal crimes and act like they are both equally red flags

[somepoetwannabe]

Parents are so weird for shipping their kids in real time

[somepoetwannabe]

Introduction

/ \ ,,, / \ ꒰Xヮ@꒱ - ✩°｡⋆⸜ 🦋✮ THE BUTTERFLY [EFFECT] SYS !! If you think you know us IRL, NO YOU DON'T !!

─── ⋆⋅☆⋅⋆ ──

Collectively

𓏲 ✮﹗ collective names: Sam / Samuel [or use our system name] 𓏲 ✮﹗ collective pronouns: They/them + It/its + He/him 𓏲 ✮﹗ collective labels: Trans male and queer + Autistic, ADHD, DID and BPD 𓏲 ✮﹗ bodily age: 14 years old ･ﾟ ･ﾟ·:｡･ﾟﾟ･⚬•・✦⋆°☽

─── ⋆⋅☆⋅⋆ ──

System Info

-- We have frequently changing common fronters, and unsure of a set host. We are a polyfragmented system with a lot of fictives! Though unsure whether or not we are fictive heavy. Here are some current frequenters :

🕸️ Bill ┈➤any but she/her | host + persecutor + bpd holder | 16 y/o

👁‍🗨 Jon ┈➤he/they/it | co-host + stress holder + caretaker | 37 y/o

⚫⚪ Mollie / Ran ┈➤she/they | protector + internal helper | 17 y/o

🧨 Will ┈➤he/him | protector + persecutor | 27 y/o

N/A Tim ┈➤he/him | uplifter + social alter | 26 y/o

We may update this if needed! @TheButterflySys - pronouns.cc -- We'll add more of the Guys on here at some point probably (this bit was added by me -📹🌑//Anthony)

─── ⋆⋅☆⋅⋆ ──

Current fandoms are:

★ QSMP ★Helluva Boss ★Hazbin Hotel ★Six of Crows ★Generational Loss ★The Magnus Archives ★The Magnus Protocol ★The Umbrella Academy ★Good Omens ★Heathers ★Ride the Cyclone ★Sherlock ★Omori ★Five Nights at Freddy's ★Harry Potter ★Percy Jackson ★Hannible ★Malevolent

Current interests are:

★Psychology ★Literature ★Art ★Theatre ★Film study ★Entomology ★Music ★Debate [ literally anything controversial intrigues most of us ]

─── ⋆⋅☆⋅⋆ ──

Have a nice day! We are always open to questions, whether it be about our system or our stance on things. Please do keep in mind though that we are never obliged to answer you.

[somepoetwannabe]

i think the issue with this post

https://www.tumblr.com/somepoetwannabe/746656181013151744/a-reminder-to-all-endogenics-that-it-is-not

is that a. endogenic systems can be disabled. they can suffer from other disabilities without having a dissociative disorder. some even became systems as a way to cope with their disabilities.

and b. most endogenic systems don’t claim to have a dissociative disorder at all.

not to mention a large amount of medical professionals and researchers these days are not as quick to dismiss plurality-without-trauma as you seem to claim in your post? here’s some science for you to back that up (a systemic review of 13 studies…)

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/cpp.2910

just sending this because you posted in they “syscourse” tag. the “system discourse” tag. so we’re assuming you’re open to discourse, conversations, and learning new things since you posted in a discourse tag.

We are! Currently I am forming a full explanation of my own stance of endogenics, in reply to a system of mixed origins who I think gave a rather interesting reply to us on how they believe endogenics (and other origins) may form. We are always up to learning. I do not think it is progressive to ignore endogenic voices. I will check out these sources once I get the time, I am currently working through the sources provided by the system we asked for an opinion from. Thank you for them, you are always welcome to have a differing opinion on this page. As for a response... A. I do not claim people who claim to be endogenics cannot be disabled, and I'm not sure where you got this in my post. Feel free to elaborate in another ask if you wish B. I am currently looking into what actually classifies as a disorder so that I can accurately disprove or prove my own idea of whether what endogenics claim to experience would count as a disorder. Please bear with me on this, I hope you can understand! Again, I am always up to hearing other opinions on such topics! There is no voice unworthy of hearing

[somepoetwannabe]

What is mogai??

[somepoetwannabe]

Well, today's challenge is to let him say hello first, because I have done it every day this month

[somepoetwannabe]

I hate when something happens to a friend and they tell us about it but it's me in front. I am awful at celebrating and comforting, I have a narrow emotional range and autism