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#...i need to stop writing essays in the tags - and write my ACTUAL essay...
asterythm · 3 days
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on the ending of in stars and time:
an essay from someone who couldn’t sit with it at first, & a love letter to the fic that brought me here anyway. (…spoiler warning for in stars and time, naturally, but you knew that!)
if siffrin isat has taught me one thing it's that vulnerability is cool, actually, and being forthcoming and generous with love when there is love to be shared is how the coolest kids do it.
so. hello isat nation of tumblr dot com. i'm here because even after cutting out several chunks to shorten this significantly, i busted through the ao3 comment section character limit and still had more to say, so i needed somewhere to put it all that would let me go longer.
i’m pretty sure this post is for, like, three people, one of whom is me. but look, it’s been moved here to the webbed site so if you wanna read it anyway i won’t stop you!
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i think what it is, ultimately, is this: the ISAT canon ending was beautiful. it was an objectively well-written ending with so much love and hope and thematic satisfaction.
it also left me, for a period, with a deep and unshakeable sense of dread.
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:)!!!!
now enter @faedemon's "None Forward & Two, Two, Two Steps Back" (hiya, fancy seeing you here), a two-chapter alt act 5 in which siffrin finds a New, Worse way to break the loops.
despite being, as mentioned, a notably worse outcome for everyone involved, this alt end managed to cut straight to the heart of that dread and settle it — and not in the sense of "oh, i like this alt ending better", or “oh, the canon ending looks better in comparison against this worse alt ending”… so much as "oh, thanks to this alt ending i am finally able to sit in a place where it no longer feels like the canon ending, as a beautiful outcome which felt impossibly lucky to get, is the only outcome in which life can go on — and therefore i no longer feel the need to look at it only out of the corner of my eye for fear of startling away the good luck that allowed it, and my ability to accept it, and the game as a whole, is elevated for it."
which!! i mean!! i don’t know that that’s exactly what you set out to do; None Forward is explicitly a tragedy!! and one, as your tags say, written because the canon ending didn't ring true for you.
but I realized that the thing that was stopping me from enjoying ISAT’s canon ending was that ugly hard core that was still so, so scared after the canon ending of every way we (that is, siffrin + i as the player moving in that incredible ludonarrative lockstep with him, holy moly the harmony in this game) had not yet grown to earn it. 
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(I’ll take a sec here under the cut to say that when I played ISAT, and then for much of the month that followed, my main reason for engaging with it and its related content at all was that it was a piece of media that came fervently recommended by my incredibly dear friend @iconocat , who it had massively, violently impacted and whose media recommendations in general I trust more than anything.
so i played ISAT, and it was incredible. but even though it's a piece of media that just about hit on every point on my list of Things That Set My Brain On Fire, it failed somehow to. well. set me on fire — at least to the extent I was expecting it to. I still enjoyed myself in the few weeks afterwards of running through fan content and intentionally plunging myself into media analysis, but I was never convinced that I would be engaging with ISAT to the extent I was if it wasn't for the sake of trying to intentionally hack my brain to the point where I could share with my friend something so important to her at the same level of genuine investment. 
I’m telling you all this because, legitimately the same night I posted “nothing but a dull ache” (ie, if you're not charlie faedemon and are somehow caring to read this anyway, the epilogue oneshot I started feverishly writing the morning after reading None Forward), I realized through my rambling in my friend’s discord dms that reading None Forward was the moment the fire finally caught. I spent a month burying myself in ISAT content and asking myself “Is this natural yet?”. after None Forward, the answer to that question finally became a sure, wholehearted yes.)
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so anyway, back to the essay.
don't get me wrong. it's really, really nice, to read a story where the moral is less “you should have asked for help", and more “there are people who will unselfishly give the gift of a love that saves even when you cannot save yourself".
but that whole ending also was only able to happen because 1. they broke in a way no one should ever have to break, and 2. everyone involved got lucky.
which, in media, happens all the time!! it is not inherently dissatisfying for a narrative to wrap by saving you with luck and love in the nick of time!! in fact it should be incredibly satisfying, after the unambiguously-negative downward spiral into Director Siffrin who had begun to learn what to say and do to make his family behave exactly the way he needs them to, for a stroke of unpredictable luck brought about by factors entirely out of his control to finally be what sets him free.
but like... I think it's because the story is set in a situation where it's no longer true that luck and randomness is a factor by which anything significant can change.
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we're hammered over the head with it: until and unless you do something to alter the course of events, they will not be altered. when you are the only dynamic element the world is reacting to in an otherwise looping course of events, you don't get to rely, anymore, on the idea that at any moment something could happen to save you. you have to assume that nothing will happen unless you make it.
and siffrin?? siffrin's literal motto was "stick to the script"!! they spend the loops with a mouth that kept closing tighter and tighter and tighter until i got to act 5 and watched them implode. and then I’m saved, and I know I haven't earned this. I get to the end and I'm still not telling them anything!! I wasn't supposed to get the good ending!! but I get away with it anyway with open arms and acceptance and unconditional love, and it's. kind of nauseating?
how am I ever supposed to learn and grow, if I didn't manage to change my behaviour even then under the threat of Eternal Looping Torment, and still got the good ending anyway? how can I prove there was an alternative way I could have broken free if things hadn't turned out so lucky in that one terrible act 5 loop?
I can't. and that's terrifying.
(aside: I’m speaking in the first person here to emphasize that the thing that got in my way is not because I don't believe siffrin is deserving of this love — quite the opposite, I think the driving force behind the good ending is that siffrin went scorched earth and saw he was loved anyway — but because this is a game designed to frequently encourage the player to deeply feel what siffrin is feeling throughout its course and. well. as a thing to happen to a fictional character it's beautiful. as a takeaway for the player, it's... harder.)
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and that's where None Forward comes in. (i’ve already written thousands of words in comments and epilogue fic declaring my love by now, but i mean. im hoping you won’t mind just a liiiittle more.)
None Forward shows a devastatingly written, all-too-believable version of what might have happened if siffrin didn't get lucky, and the loops continued, and they kept clinging to the script and refusing to Look At It and successfully stagnating and stagnating and stagnating as they were so determined to do. and it's bad, it's worse, it's way way worse — but there's no reliance on outside factors. it comes completely from within siffrin and loop, the only dynamic pieces in the world, finally breaking out.
it was the terrible, nightmarish unfairness of the loops brought to their natural, just-south-of-inevitable conclusion.
and yes, it's a terrible, unfair conclusion, but the loop still breaks.
in a roundabout way, it... gives me so much hope. if the outside factors were different, if the stars did not align just right to allow siffrin's family to get there on time to save them, if siffrin never learned to open their mouth, which by all means seems like the likeliest course of events... they'd still get out. worse for wear, and separated by a gap unbridgeable, but out.
there is a future. there is freedom.
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to speak more specifically on dull ache, if you'll forgive the indulgence, just since this was originally meant to be in a reply to the author in my own comments section:
I think I so desperately needed to write it with a focus on the family siffrin left behind because I wanted to prove, if just for myself, that in that barely-dodged alternative there still could be a future for everyone. (isabeau's just happened to be the voice in which dull ache came to me, but the point was to create an epilogue for all four.)
for the rest of the family, who was not quite so deeply ravaged but was still left in a bad way at the end of None Forward, and for whom randomness is not pretty much unequivocally good just by virtue of being better than the alternative like it is for siffrin and loop (more on that in a sec), I could see it mattering more to set specific pieces up precisely, and I could actually imagine the pieces I could set up that could have a meaningful impact in the immediate future.
so. y’know. I set them, in the way I happened to want to. granted, with some extra... divine indulgence, but siffrin's departure from their family's perspective at the end of None Forward was definitely Wrong but not so obviously wrong that I could believe that without it they wouldn't otherwise either (a) go hunting him down to force out the truth, which felt Worse, or (b) just "accept" that it was as simple as Siffrin not actually caring about them/brushing them off and thus intentionally fade him into the distance in their minds to deal with it. which felt like the WORST POSSIBLE THING.
you'd think it might make more sense to have done this for siffrin and loop, instead. they're arguably the ones who need it most, after all, so why not build them up from rock bottom as a sweeping show of "things get better"?
but... i think it doesn't need to be written to have faith that it will happen: the very fact that Siffrin is about to set out on a new journey in a reality where everything is a dynamic player just. immediately gives me hope all by itself. random lucky things that save you are so much more believable and wonderful when random lucky things in general are happening all the time, and you have all the time in the world for them to happen.
and anyway, I don't think this is the kind of future you’d write satisfyingly as a sequence of events at all. to heal from this is something that will take an incredible amount of time and nonlinear progress. 
until one day, through a series of disconnected small quiet gloriously-random lived experiences, without knowing when it happened or being able to trace it back, you realize, oh —
somewhere along the way, you came to know how to live again.
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just a heads up I may take a break from tumblr for a bit (or I may not. I may fail at it which we’ll deal with if we get there) because it’s starting to feel like the news rn. and I know my limit but also my creativity as an activist and how negativity does stifle it and I’ll be a better activist if I step away and focus on solutions for a while.
I might post some of these solutions:: I’m doing a course on making an impact via business as well as my urban design stuff and I’m gonna post some of that at some point, some guinea fowl pics and I’ve got some music for over at @edge-oftheworld that’s almost ready to put up. so I’ll still check my notifs and if you see something I’d like please please please tag me in it??? I will appreciate an awful lot. just need to not see sad world news for a second but I want to see your neurodivergence headcanons and ideas and what you think of songs.
also dm me if you want my Instagram or fb or email or linkedin idk just know I rarely check all of those too but I will change my ways if we are having a good conversation :)
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licantropa · 2 years
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Happy Holidays!!
#Mianite#I’d like to apologize for the tag essay you don’t gotta read all that idk what happened#you know its interesting how red has called jordan ‘skipper Sparklez’ implying that he places them on the same level#especially since both of them have messed with capsize’s ship. but jordan places himself on the same level as capsize#because theyre both captains (which stops being true since capsize demotes him to boatswain)#and capsize makes Tom a captain meaning she places him on the same level as herself (Tom is a captain because he owns a ship btw)#(which btw is why capsize was like ‘you’re leaving my crew?’ to Jordan when he got the ss jerry but technically since he says the ship is#‘for capsize’s fleet’ it belongs to her)#I think the issue with Jordan and Capsize is that he doesn’t actually like her as an individual but as an idea#that idea being ‘having a teammate’ because it’s just been him up until that point.#arguably jordan doesn’t really care about capsizes feelings on things examples of this are#her saying no to getting married but he like ignores that and continues on with the idea that they’re together/ going to get married.#him throwing gold at her and assuming that was all it took to get a date out of her instead of asking (like everyone’s given her gold he#ain’t special) and the ss jerry which was made to impressive her but it’s in a color he likes and also he named it#also him stepping over capsizes boundaries and kissing her#me personally I will not write them having a positive relationship because Jordan’s ruined it for himself truly#I think we as a society need to put more blame on Jordan when it comes to capsizes death by the way#like while he wasn’t the only one in the room BUT he was the only one capable#Tucker was stuck in a hole Tom was being a bitch in the background Red was paralyzed in fear#and when Capsize gets threatened you know what he says? ‘Skipper you gonna do something’ (something along those lines anyways I don’t fully#remember) like he let Furia fucking villain monologue are you serious???#also it’s way more interesting that they don’t get along#or maybe i just like issues idk#feel free to disagree ofc
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bjarkboof · 1 year
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taz is back on my brain and i wanted to draw smth easy about how i personally draw and differentiate the elves in it ^_^
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filthyjanuary · 7 months
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these people are actually on crack cocaine
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1o1percentmilk · 5 months
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i dont want to write my ethics essay what if my prof thinks it's cringe
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dallonwrites · 10 months
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at first i was writing a lot of grief stuff to process my own which is still the case but at this point it's mostly the grief has been here for so long and is not going away so and i'm tired so i might as well have fun with it
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rubyrises · 9 months
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I just wanted to say I read all those tags you ate that shit up. You went off and while I never considered that idea I would read tf out of your fic because ITS ACTUALLY SEEMS NATURAL TOO i love your headcanon!!!
AWWWW THANK YOU I APPRECIATE IT!!! <3 I’M GLAD YOU ENJOYED MY THOUGHTS!!! To be totally honest, I spent. Roughly 2-3 hours writing them out. Trying to explain the vision in my mind while not exceeding Tumblr’s character limit in the tags was a CHALLENGE. I still have so many thoughts I didn’t even get to touch on
Maybe I Should write a fic…
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ladykailitha · 5 months
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The Harrington Pattern Part 1
Hey, guys! Sorry I'm late uploading today, but I went to bed early last night and forgot to schedule this.
Oops!
But! Welcome to what I've been calling Steve is a History Nerd agenda. We see in season two on Steve's essay for colleges that he can link his grandfather's military service with his prowess on the basketball court.
It is also surprisingly well written. *shakes fist at the Duffers stop telling us he's stupid and then showing the opposite, please! Let him be smart, too!*
Summary: The Renaissance Fair is finally back in Hawkins after three year absence (Starcourt was built on the fair site and after the fire it was bulldozed back to it's original field). Everyone is excited, even Steve to everyone's amazement. But Steve is hiding other hidden depths as he offers to help the kids make their costumes for the Fair.
Lucas is struggling with being both a nerd and a jock and fears the judgment of his friends. Steve sets out to help him overcome those doubts to be himself.
Tagging the untaggable: @mira-jadeamethyst @rozzieroos @itsall-taken @redfreckledwolf @emly03
***
Nobody expects Steve to be excited for the Renaissance fair. Dustin, Will and Lucas spend hours plotting bribes, schemes and out and out manipulations to get Steve to agree to take them. Even Robin expected him to side with her about the dust and the filth. Eddie expected him to be dismissive of the fantasy aspect of it.
Boy were they all wrong.
For it was Steve to bring up to the group after a rather successful D&D session.
In his hand was a bright pink flier and a wide grin on his face.
“Guys! The Ren Fair is back this year,” he said in lieu of a greeting. “I’ll finally be able to show off that tunic I’ve been working on.”
All heads turned to Steve in shock.
There was a cacophony of questions.
“Since when did you know how to sew?”
“What do you mean back? I didn’t even know Hawkins had one to begin with!”
“You want to go to the Ren Fair?”
“Why would you want to spend all day in the heat and dirt?”
Steve looked around at all off his friends in shock.
“Guys, I love the Ren Fair,” he muttered. “Didn’t you guys know?”
All their jaws dropped.
And Eddie? Eddie felt an icicle to the heart at the sight of Steve’s hurt expression.
“You’ll pardon the peasants, my liege,” Eddie said, bowing grandly. “I’m afraid we have all be harboring under the delusion that Ren Fairs were beneath your notice.”
Steve blinked at him a moment. “But I love that stuff. It’s the history and sword fights and jousting. It’s the like medieval Olympics. It’s the romance and chivalry of knights fighting for a fair maiden’s hand. It’s getting to dress up in fancy clothes and rip into turkey legs like a savage. What’s not to like?”
Dustin frowned. “Who here knew Steve liked history?”
Robin and Nancy raised their hands. They looked around waiting for me people to join them. But they stayed down.
Steve ducked his head and scuffed the floor with the edge of his sneaker.
“The ex-girlfriend I’ll buy,” Dustin continued. “But Robin didn’t become friends with Steve until after he graduated so how did she know?”
Robin blinked at them owlishly. “You mean you guys don’t know?”
Everyone looked around each other and then shook their heads.
“Steve was in my AP history class my junior year,” she said as if this was know fact.
“You do know that AP stands for advance placement, right?” Mike asked.
Eddie smacked the back of his head. “She was in it, dude. Don’t be an ass.”
Steve looked up at him and smiled a little.
Good, Eddie thought. Nothing like a little Mike violence to cheer up Steve.
“He wrote an essay for early placement college exams,” Nancy said. “He didn’t get a chance to turn it in because of our second go round with the Upside Down, but it was really good. It needed a little neatening up with the actual writing, but the history was solid.”
Steve blushed. “Thanks.”
Dustin looked skeptical. “What’s your favorite part of history?”
Steve opened his mouth and then closed it again. “I liked hearing about my grandpa’s time in the US army during WWII, but that was more because he made it interesting. But I really like the Industrial Revolution. Or rather the first Industrial Revolution. There have been four. The first one was from 1760-1840 and featured heavily in the textile movement.”
The room was silent.
“Why textiles, Stevie?” Eddie asked as the silence grew awkward.
Steve lit up like a child at Christmas morning and he began talking about the British textile movement.
“What the hell?” Dustin huffed, breaking into Steve monologue.
Steve ducked his head again and blushed. “Just because I’m not interested in science and fantasy doesn’t mean I’m stupid.” He straightened up. “And yeah, sometimes I get things wrong. But everyone does at some point. In fact I get a hell of a lot more flack for my intelligence than Eddie does and he repeated his senior year twice!” He took a deep breath and then ran his fingers through his hair.
“No offense,” he said waving to Eddie.
Eddie looked up at him with earnest eyes. “None taken. I concur.”
They all looked around at each other in shock. Like they hadn’t realized that they had done that.
After a few moments, Steve put his hands on his hips and pointed at all of them.
“So do you guys want to go or what?”
Eddie sat back with a smile as everyone roared their approval.
*
“No corsets,” was Robin’s only firm and fast rule for Steve when it came to dressing her up for the Ren Fair.
Steve looked her up and down. “Why on earth would I want you in a corset? Have you looked in the mirror?”
“Uh...” Robin said. “Is that a trick question? Of course I have. I don’t what that has to do with saying no to corsets though...”
Steve rolled his eyes. “In order to give you the curve you need to match the proper silhouette you would need to be cinched to hell. And as this is supposed to be fun.”
He grabbed her hand and started hauling her toward his car.
“Where are we going?”
“Thrifting!” he said with glee.
It took three different stores and a stop at the mall to get everything he needed.
“Give me three days,” he told her when he dropped her off at her house. “And I think you’ll like what I come up with.”
Robin eyed him warily. “If you say so.”
Steve laughed.
He crashed the next D&D session, showing up early to pick them up.
“What is everyone wearing to the Ren Fair?” he asked with a note pad on his lap and wagged the pen in his fingers.
“You want us to dress up?” Mike asked, eyes wide.
“Why not?” he asked with a shrug. “I’ve made my costume and currently reworking some thirfted threads for Robin’s outfit.”
Eddie blinked. “You made your costume?”
Steve shrugged again. “Yeah. I like sewing.”
There was suddenly an uproar and he held up a hand. “I can’t make you a full outfit before the Fair, but I can make over already made clothes to make them more historical. And maybe for next year I’ll have the time to make something special for everyone.”
Dustin eyed him suspiciously. “Like what?”
“Like tailoring pants to a tighter fit,” Steve explained “adding a sash or belt, turning old coats into vests and cloaks, things like that.”
They still weren’t sure how that would work out.
“Now I talked to Joyce and Claudia,” he continued. “And they’re both willing to help out in making sure everyone has something nice to wear. That includes Max and El.”
“Are the fair maidens joining us?” Eddie asked.
Steve nodded. “Yeah. Joyce is doing El and Will, Claudia is doing Dustin and Mike, and I’m doing Lucas and Max. Eddie said he already had a costume, so I didn’t have to worry about him.”
Eddie grinned. “You better believe it, pretty boy.”
Steve ducked his head and blushed. “So we’re all going thrifting with a $5 limit for each of you. But I wanted to brainstorm some ideas of what you wanted to go as so we don’t waste time wandering around.”
Everyone started shouting at once and it took Steve a good ten minutes before he got everyone calmed down enough to get what they wanted. Dustin wanted to go as a hobbit, but Steve had to nix that one.
“You don’t want to go running around the grounds barefoot,” he explained with a wince. “It’s not safe.”
“I’m going to have to agree with Stevie on this one,” Eddie said. “You guys have never been but there is all sorts of stuff laying around. It’s not indoors and the pathways are dirt lined. Think the state fair. It’s more like that then going to comic book convention.”
Dustin grumbled but conceded the point. Steve got them to decide on... well not quite peasant gear, but more rough around the edges than what Steve would be wearing.
Well, all but Lucas. He didn’t want to wear what they were wearing but he refused to say what he did want to wear.
So Steve dropped him off at home last.
They pulled into his driveway and Steve turned to him. “Do you not want to dress up? Because I won’t make you.”
Lucas picked at the loose string on his sweater. “It’s not that. I just remember the last time we did a group costume and they all thought I should be Winston because I was black like he was.”
Steve frowned for a moment. “The Ghostbusters, right?”
Lucas nodded. “I knew if I brought it up they’d shoot me down again.”
“So what did you want to go as?” he asked.
Lucas huffed out a sigh. “It doesn’t matter. It’s a stupid pipe dream anyway. Especially since you have to make Max’s dress and Robin’s costume, too.”
He opened the door to get out, but Steve reached over and slammed it closed.
“One, Robin’s costume is almost done,” he said counting out on his fingers. “Two, do you really think your girlfriend is going to want to wear a dress? And three, let me be the judge on what’s too much for me, okay?”
Lucas huffed a laugh at his second point. “Yeah, that was dumb of me.”
“So what is it?”
Lucas looked down again and heaved out a sigh. “An elf.”
Steve’s mind was whirling with the possibilities. “What colors?”
“What?” Lucas asked, not sure he heard Steve right.
“What colors would you want it to be?”
He pulled out the notebook and scrambled for a pen. Lucas pulled a pencil out of his bag and handed it to him.
“Uh I was thinking of a light blue and with a silver trim?” he said hesitantly.
Steve sketched something out. “Like this?”
Lucas leaned over to look at the drawing. “A little shorter so I’m not tripping over it and maybe those puffy pants?”
Steve adjusted the drawing and Lucas nodded.
“Yeah, like that.”
“All right,” Steve said. “I know exactly what to do and how to do it. It won’t be perfect because I don’t have time to do it right so I’ll be doing a lot of cheating. But yeah, it’s doable.”
Lucas gave him a hug. “Thanks, man.”
*
Steve called the one person he knew he could help him.
“Eddie,” he said the second the other man picked up. “I need your nerd connections to do a huge favor for Lucas.”
“Wha’cha got, big boy?” Eddie asked with a grin.
“You wouldn’t happen to know any Trekkies would you?” Steve asked chewing on his bottom lip.
“That depends, Stevie,” Eddie replied, “what’s the need?”
“Pointed ears.”
Eddie hummed. “I’m assuming you’re thinking Trekkie because of Spock and that’s a good thought. But I’m guessing since we’re going to the Ren Fair our stalwart ranger is wanting to be an elf?”
“Yeah,” Steve said. “Do you know anyone who can help?”
���Better than that,” Eddie said. “I know where to get the ears in the right... shade?”
Steve perked up. “Oh? I’m guessing Jeff?”
“Right in one, darlin’,” Eddie said with a soft smile. “I’ll give him a call and then call you back.”
“Thanks, Eds,” Steve breathed. “You’re the best.”
“Thanks, doll.”
****
I am so excited for this, guys. You have no idea. I'm little history nerd myself and this really fun to play around with.
Just a heads up. We WILL be addressing Mike's casual racism from the Ghostbusters scene because I don't like that it's never been addressed.
Part 2 Part 3 Part 4 Part 5 Part 6 Part 7 Part 8 Part 9 Part 10 Part 11 Part 12 Part 13
Tag List: @spectrum-spectre @estrellami-1 @zerokrox-blog @gregre369 @artiststarme ​@a-little-unsteddie @chaosgremlinmunson @messrs-weasley @chaoticlovingdreamer @maya-custodios-dionach @danili666 @goodolefashionedloverboi @val-from-lawrence @i-must-potato @carlyv @wonderland-girl143-blog @justforthedead89 @vecnuthy @irregular-child @bookbinderbitch @bookworm0690 @anne-bennett-cosplayer @yikes-a-bee @awkwardgravity1 @littlewildflowerkitten @genderless-spoon @cinnamon-mushroomabomination @dragonmama76 @scheodingers-muppet @ellietheasexylibrarian @thedragonsaunt @useless-nb-bisexual
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klausinamarink · 11 months
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(saw this post and laughed at everyone’s tags and ended up writing this instead of my actual wips i should really finish whOOPs)
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Eddie bopped his head lightly along to Mötley Crüe on his Walkman as he scribbled his ideas for the Thanksgiving oneshot. He managed to finish the gruelling biology homework and his English essay tonight, so he deserved a treat.
As he tapped his pencil against his desk, he looked up and happened to catch one Steve Harrington’s face at the window.
Eddie perked up, taking his headphones off. Steve grinned, gave his dumb finger wave, and pointed at the window. Eddie gave him a ‘wait a second’ gesture and hurried to close his door, peeking first at the living room where Wayne sat on the couch and read his newspaper. Then he swiftly moved his Mötley Crüe tape to his radio and cranked the volume up that would cover any discreet noise.
He lifted the window open, taking a moment to closely observe Steve’s face in his goofy awestruck glory. “What brings you to my balcony, Romeo?”
Steve shrugged playfully, “Doesn’t Juliet yearn for his lover to come at unknown hours under the moonlight?”
Eddie gave himself a second to turn away and cover his delightful shriek with a palm over his mouth. Goddamnit, his boyfriend is a perfect Shakespeare romantic. He leaned back in with a low whisper, “Sounds like Romeo needs an excuse to see Juliet.”
“That’ll be great since I’m literally tiptoeing on this box right now.” Steve laughed and heaved himself up with a ‘hup!’ Eddie stepped back to let his boyfriend shimmy in, but then his eyes widened in horror when he realized what was under the window in his room.
“Wait, Steve-!” Eddie cut off as Steve landed elegantly onto the small bookshelf instead of the bed because he had switched their places the previous week because his brain was on a weird day and Eddie had thought doing so might shut it up, so he has yet to reverse them.
The bookshelf toppled over on the floor, along with the lamp and other figurines. Steve himself pretty much crashed and rolled before he stopped himself on his side. He looked up at Eddie in bewilderment.
“Uhhh…”
Before either of them could say anything, Wayne burst into the room. Out of instinctive reflex, Eddie threw his bedsheets right on Steve, covering him but not really hiding him.
“What’s going on?” Wayne asked. His gaze landed on the mess and the very obvious Steve blanket lump on the floor.
“Nothing!” Eddie answered, too cheerily. “I was just dancing a lot and, uh, did this. By accident, sorry.”
Wayne stared at him, clearly not believing his ass. “…Right.” He said slowly. “Does Steve want to stay for breakfast in the morning?”
Eddie blinked innocently and, because he was the best liar in the entire world, said, “Who’s Steve?”
Steve made some muffled guffaw sound. Eddie subtly kicked him in where he hoped was in the shins. Wayne gave him another stare before coming to Steve the Blanket Lump and lifted the sheet up where Steve blinked just as innocently back.
“What’s your name, son?” Wayne asked matter of factly.
“…Steve?”
“Steve, would you like to stay for breakfast in the morning?”
Steve looked over to Eddie, who quickly shook his head no, then back at Wayne with his parent-rated charming smile. “Of course, I wouldn’t mind, Wayne.”
His uncle nodded and dropped the blanket, covering Steve again. He turned and walked out of the room, calling out, “Better not hear any more noises again!”
Eddie practically dropped to the ground, his face in his hands, and groaned aloud. This was so embarrassing. He felt Steve’s arms hugging his chest. “Eds, babe, I’m sorry but you know I would die for your uncle’s buttermilk biscuits and jams.”
He glared at his boyfriend half-heartedly. “Stealthy like a ninja, you say?”
Steve pointedly looked down at the fallen bookshelf. “Welllll, I could’ve sworn there was always a bed there-”
Eddie kissed him. “Well,” he said after they broke apart, “maybe I’ll let Romeo help me clean up and all shall be forgiven with our usual duties.”
Steve wiggled his eyebrows with a shit-eating grin. “Clean up, you say, Juliet?”
Wayne hollered at Eddie to close his bedroom door.
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amourcheol · 5 days
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filmbro-zoned (teaser)
❝Who knew all it takes is a hot girl with top-tier taste for a man to admit he's wrong?❞
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g e n r e : college! au, fluff, crack, suggestive
w o r d c o u n t : 1k for teaser (approx 20k words for full fic)
s u m m a r y : self-proclaimed movie mastermind chwe vernon minds his business—whether that be avoiding the popular, problematic kids in his college to reducing customer interest in his parents' film store. his plan of isolation, however, is completely destroyed when you, a seemingly insane disney fan, slams his perfect movie taste and ask for his help to take down an evil ex.
w a r n i n g s : loosely inspired by watching the detectives, film major! vernon who owns an outdated film store, mc is the baddest (but also the craziest) bitch in this fic, vernon is a loser, film major! mingyu who will be violated many times in this fic sorry king, mentions of many filmbro films which will also be violated, self-indulgent mentions of some of my favourite films, kissing, mentions of sex but no actual sex because im fearing god today, barbenheimer reference <3
p l a y l i s t : if you're too shy (then let me know) by the 1975 || q&a by seventeen || wonderful women by the smiths || confidence by ocean alley
t a g l i s t : @hyuckworld @hiraethmae @lllucere @intoanothermind @kokoiinuts
a u t h o r ' s n o t e : who would have thought i'd be writing a college au huh...alice will never let me live this down...also guys once again so sorry for constantly posting this hopefully i have found a way for the loophole...let us see if this teaser gets shown in the tags...
“WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON WOLF OF WALL STREET, AMERICAN PSYCHO, PULP FICTION…FIGHT CLUB, SAVING PRIVATE RYAN, SCARFACE…”
You squinted at the list, finding the names neverending. “Jeez, this list keeps going, huh?” 
He could not help the scoff. “And you called me a Filmbro.” He set his forearms on the counter, locking his hands together. “What do you need these movies for?”
“They’re for my ex-boyfriend.” 
The term had him pausing. Of course—the ex-boyfriend. How has he heard of this man, but not know a thing about him? Shit, he did not even know your name.
“This ex of yours has an…interesting taste,” he said slowly. “What’s he like?”
“I can tell you he attends the same college as you. Well, us,” you clarified, jerking your head towards the college colours of your server’s hoodie. “Film major. Just like you, actually.” 
“Oh?” Small world. “What’s the name?”
“Kim Mingyu. Do you know him?” 
Vernon Chwe nearly shit his oversized jeans.
A hesitant nod of his head. “I have a few classes with him.”
“Oh?” Your stare was a little more intense now. “What do you think of him?”
Right. 
Another fated question—the people around him had to stop asking him such controversial questions, or else he was bound to piss someone off. You were already letting him off the hook too many times; one more judgemental comment, and he was having that Princess movie set smashed on his head.
Kim Mingyu. Fuckass Kim Mingyu. Film major—just like him. One of the most popular boys in the year—very unlike him. All the teachers love his essays, all the girls love his freakishly-perfect six-pack, which Vernon is extremely irritated (and devastatingly intimidated) by. 
What all these people failed to realise, though, was that Mingyu was the biggest piece of shit to grace the halls of his university—and the planet, if dramatics were in order. If you thought that Vernon was a filmbro, then Mingyu was Filmbrother. Filmcomrade. Filmnemesis. 
It was as if you could hear the thoughts churning in his head. “You can be honest, you know. He did dump me at the end of the day.” A smirk began to appear. “Say your worst.”
The reassurance did not help. “I mean,” he started, swiping your card, “He’s okay? I haven’t talked to him enough to have an opinion on him.” 
A half-truth—that should suffice. 
But because the fates like to shit on his head every now and then for kicks, they decided to leave you unsatisfied with his answer. “Or, you can keep lying!” 
Excellent intuition, really. “I’m not!” he exclaimed, slapping the card back on the counter. “I really don’t know much about him.”
The big man upstairs was testing him even further, when, with a determined gaze, you set your elbows atop the surface. You leaned closer, tilting your head to the side as you inspected him, and Vernon blinked back at the sheer lack of space you had created. His mouth twisted, eyes frantically darting at the features of your face, not quite taking in the entirety of your being. Your vision seemed to work perfectly, because it caught the slight flush at the tops of his cheeks, where it was just pale skin seconds before.
Your smirk deepened. “Judging by your blush, you’re either terrible at lying…or,” you offered, voice lowering a little as you drummed your fingers against the counter, “You’ve never had a hot girl this close to you.” 
Fuck everything and everyone, because that only made him blush more furiously. You could not help the chuckle that escaped, deciding to cease torturing him and take your card. “I’ll not say the answer, Mr. Filmbro, but I think you already know.”
Since he had no plans of turning into a human form of a ketchup bottle, he evaded the topic entirely, instead focusing on interrogating you. “You still haven’t told me how Mingyu is related to the movie list you made.”
That seemed to hold your interest. “Oh, of course!” Putting the list back into your bag, you began, “Well, the list holds my ex-boyfriend’s favourite films. I wanted to know your opinion on a few.”
He could not contain his sigh. Oh, he had an opinion on these films that you mentioned. Again, he would rather be buried with his thoughts on the specific genre than ever tell you. The curiosity, though, was eventually going to eat him alive.
So much for minding his business.
“I mean…” he began to think, trying to find the right words. “I don’t mind them? Godfather is a good film, but I’ve seen better from Brando. I like American Psycho, but again, people tend to miss the point of the movie.”
As you nodded, listening to his two-cents on the movies you mentioned, he paused, furrowing his brows. “Why do you care about my opinion?”
You smacked your lips together, folding the list back. “I don’t know much about you, Mr. Filmbro,” you began, “But you don’t run a filmstore without knowing a thing or two about the films you sell.”
“So?” He crossed his arms atop the counter. “Shouldn’t you have asked the guy who you made the list about?”
“Trust me,” you said, your smirk turning more into a rageful flash of teeth, “I know exactly what he thinks of these films.”
Don’t particularly know what to make of that comment. “Well, I don’t know what my opinion for these films is going to help you in any way.”
“It has helped.” You paused then, waiting to see if he would egg you on, asking how his seemingly tame opinions would play into the grand scheme of things. “All part of my master plan.”
Master plan? Vernon may have been interested before, but he was certain that, before, he could have hid it without letting you catch onto it. In a sudden flash, though, as if his mouth was beyond his control, he regrettably slipped out the words which had you smiling more than he would have liked.
“What master plan?”
He almost closed his eyes. Shit. Now I’m fucking invested.
The corners of your mouth, lifting upwards, had him almost nervous. “I was hoping you would say that.” 
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azrielgreen · 5 months
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There's a reason I always moderate comments but i approved this one so people can see how truly vile it gets sometimes. I'm not arrogant. I don't think the way I write is better at all. Exploring them on an authentic level means exploring this, or any, version of them with wholehearted passion, not that this is the authentic interpretation of them. Writing intense stuff isn't a brag, it's a warning so people can be prepared for stuff like arguments and confrontations. I always over-warn for CW stuff so that, again, people are prepared. I never once have asked people to read it. It's just there and I've tried my best to a) write something i loved and b) thoroughly warn those who might read it. Any interpretation of the characters is valid and worth exploring. It's so sad to see a reeled off list of all the way Steve "should be" and the implication that nothing but strict canon adherence could ever be a passionate, worthy exploration. It's... only fanfic? It's not real. They're not real. Nothing is real and everything is possible and that's supposed to be what's fun about it.
I write the characters very intensely, so yes, they are often out of character, sorry for... warning about that? I write different backgrounds for them and play with the negative space of possibilities and potential and i do this with authentic curiosity and passion because I love doing it and i get very into it. Sorry for warning about that too, I guess? When I first started writing in this fandom, some people pointed out to me that I could CW warn for them being OOC and that was new to me, i didn't think I had to warn for that. I thought people would read the tags, like in other fandoms, and understand that the story would do different things with the characters but it became clear that this was actually solid advice as this was a fandom obsessed with "canon adherence" and policing. So I thought I would CW as thoroughly as I could so no one would be shocked or disappointed and then maybe they wouldn't leave an essay of hate in the comments.
But ultimately, people like this would only be satisfied if I deleted everything and stopped writing. I barely participate in this fandom as it is beyond answering asks and writing. I don't rec my own work. The thing i don't ever want, and this is why it was worrying seeing something like YD becoming "popular", is for people to feel like they *should* read my work without having gone and looked for it via the tags. Without having found it naturally, just by browsing and thinking "that's definitely for me". I've only ever posted for small rarepairs in the past so a couple of comments on a fic always made me so happy. I write for myself and the few others in the world who might like it. I have never written for an audience. If you don't like something I wrote, it's not for you. Genuinely. Move along to the next, no? That's what I would do.
This was so spiteful and targeted. YD is so old at this point, I just don't understand people who do shit like this. I don't bother anyone and I try to be here for anyone who needs me. I CW as thoroughly as I can. I don't think I'm better than anyone. I think every single iteration of these characters is worthy and valid and what matters is how fun they were to write, for the author. I had so much fucking fun with these stories that seeing this miserable little rant seems pointless to me. I don't care if you didn't like it. I don't care if it wasn't to your taste. Writing it was what I wanted. Sharing it is secondary, always. It's fanfiction, written for free in my spare time. I didn't take up space, I didn't trample anyone. There is no reason for this beyond spite.
I am sorry about the vest/jacket mixup, however. Truly, genuinely from the bottom of my heart devastatingly sorry about that. I know it'll take time for people to forgive me and maybe no one ever will, I have to make my peace with that.
Anyway, thanks for loudly projecting your feelings onto me and my work.
💜💜💜
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thealexandriaarchives · 2 months
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'Oh I'm Really Dune-it Now!' Masterpost
Welcome to the blog, the usual mishmash of nonsense will continue but for anything I'm creating myself lately it will likely be for the Dune Fandom, mostly a hodgepodge of Villeneuve Movie & Book Canon.
If you want to opt-out of this, all my original posts related to Dune will be tagged #duneposting for blacklisting.
Finally, add me on twitter @montager7 & Discord as montager if you use either for fandom stuff. I'm trying to get a feel for the size & shape of the Dune fandom, I think we can get writing & art events going in hiatus!
My Live & Updated Fiefdom of Dune Creations:
Dune Meta Rants, AKA:
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Dune Fandom, We Need to be Hornier About Fluids
The One Where I Scream About Sand and Balance in Dune's Rigged Fights
Brian Herbert's Bitchy Dune Messiah Intro
The One Where I Talk About Feyd-Rautha's Introductory Scene and How We Were Too Distracted By Rizz to See Trauma UPDATED: The DEFINITIVE Version With Duke Leto (2.0) (New)
(Optional Alternate Early Cut): (1.1) Where I Went Back & Had Even MORE Traumatic Realizations about Feyd-Rautha that later got validated somewhat by Villeneuve's interviews confirming he wanted the final fight to be a 'consummation' of what never was.
Hey Do You Guys Remember in the Book Paul Was Going to Let Gurney Halleck do War Crimes on Feyd-Rautha? (New)
Meta Coming Soon - Yell at Me in DMs:
Heavily Academically Source-Cited Essay on Why Blacking Feyd-Rautha's Teeth was a More Insane and Correct Decision than Even Villeneuve Could Have Probably Considered.
Pollution, Shaving, Hierarchy of Nobility, & Gendered Clothing on Giedi Prime
The Detailed Breakdown of Bullfighting Imagery & Metaphor in Villeneuve's Dune 1 & 2.
The Impassioned Defense of Why Villeneuve's Feyd-Rautha Actually Might Like Rabban, Siblings in Abusive Homes, the Relationship Therein, and Fandom Mischaracterizations.
Dune Memes & Misc Shitposts:
The Arrakeen Royal Ballet AU (Fair game to write or draw) (New)
FeydPaulChaniIrulan needs to be called 'The Paulycule' (New)
Dunewave Exists, It Fucks, and I Need You All To Listen To It (New)
Paul Atredies, Cinnamon Roll Evolution (New)
Dune: MerMay Edition (New)
"Feyd-Rautha is a Cannibal"
Focused Feyd-Rautha Meme
RIP NoHo Hank i know you would have rocked just the sluttiest little couture Feyd-Rautha Halloween costume
Dune Fanvids / Crackvids
Big New Feelings Paul Atredies & Lady Jessica w/ PaulChani & FeydPaul Comedy/Crack - 2:41
Family Secrets Always Come Out... (1.0?) Lady Jessica & Paul Atredies/Muad'dib & Glossu Rabban Comedy Crack/Character Study? - 0:50 CW: Canon-Level Emetophobia & Violence
[BIG WIP - REDACTED] (Coming Soon) Kwisatz Haderach General / Drama - 3:30+
Dune Fanfiction:
Detailed Outline Stages, yell at me to stop making low effort memes and write.
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maoam · 1 year
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DISSECTING SAKURA - WHY IS SHE SO TERRIBLE?
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INTRO
I promised to write a post about Sakura’s character long time ago so here’s that now. If you want to read my Hinata post it’s here.
Sakura is a character that is very hated in the Naruto fandom. Many people acknowledge she’s one of the worst female characters in anime. And yet, she also has many dedicated stans that defend her character and insist she is simply misunderstood, that she’s actually a good shinobi and a person, or not as bad as people think. While there are many videos and essays about Sakura, my issue with them is that they often either praise Hinata who isn’t any better than Sakura or they do not acknowledge Sakura is supposed to be the way she is. She is intentionally written as an unlikeable person and she was never supposed to be inspiring or a positive character. I will try to explain this to you the best I can by dissecting her character. As usual, if you’re a fan of her character you might not want to see what’s next. This will be tagged under the anti tags so if you see it in the character tag that is not intentional.
SAKURA AS A SHINOBI
I will first focus on Sakura as a shinobi and her skills in fights since Naruto is a battle manga. Sakura is, as it's often acknowledged to the point of memes, pretty useless. A lot of her stans don’t understand why. She might get to punch once every 200 chapters or heal fodders but in the end she is featless. She is placed in many important situations where she does nothing to contribute or even gets in the way. This is not acceptable for a main character that has a lot of screentime. Naturally, this is something that annoys many people but it’s made even more annoying by the fact Sakura is constantly talking about how much stronger she has gotten and how she wants to be on par with Naruto and Sasuke.
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In the beginning, during the bell test, Sakura doesn't even attempt to get the bells from Kakashi and only ends up fainting. In the Land of Waves, because Sakura was able to climb the tree due to her chakra control, she became smug and overconfident and thought she doesn't need to train. Which is funny considering she does nothing except stand around during an actual fight while Naruto and Sasuke actually contribute to the fight with the main antagonists. She's tasked to protect Tazuna, yet she can't do that either, but Kakashi has to intervene and get injured. It’s also worth mentioning Kakashi pointed out that during the tree climbing Sakura was able to control her chakra better because she had little chakra to begin with. Thus Kishimoto establishes very early on Sakura as someone who brags and overrestimates her own skills.
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In the Chunin exams, Sakura hopes that Naruto and Sasuke aren’t foolish enough to cheat during the written exam, and she’s sure that she can answer the questions based on her knowledge. But what she doesn’t realize is that the real intention of the test is for the takers to use their observation and deductive skills to gather information and cheat. We find this out in the same chapter through Sasuke. Sasuke, unlike Sakura, realizes that the test makers want them to act like a shinobi. Sakura is book smart and a rote learner, but as we have seen in the Land of Waves and what we will see in the rest of the Chunin exams, being book smart won’t help her on the battlefield. Kishimoto wanted to show us that Sakura is just someone who brags and thinks she’s got everything under control, despite the fact she’s not the right kind of smart to be a shinobi, she doesn’t think like one.
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In the Forest of Death, we then see she isn’t able to actually put anything into practice and Naruto and Sasuke again do all the work, while Sakura does nothing except stand around, scream and cry. Sasuke even has to yell at her to stop merely standing around. Eventually though, when Naruto and Sasuke are knocked out after the encounter with Orochimaru, Sakura has no choice but to protect them from Orochimaru’s henchmen. But she of course fails. She sets traps that fail, and gets mocked for her amateuristic skills by her opponents. We see characters like Kiba are able to put up traps that actually work, but Sakura who is supposedly smart isn’t. Then Rock Lee arrives to her rescue. After he gets beaten up, Kin grabs Sakura by her hair and calls her out on her vanity and tells her she should have trained more, which is basically what Sasuke did at the beginning of the arc, when he told Sakura if she has time to flirt maybe she should use that time to learn a jutsu or two. In the chapter cover she is also seen brushing her hair in front of a mirror in the forest, so Kishimoto makes it pretty clear Sakura is someone who cares a lot about her looks even during a mission. Kishimoto uses the villains to point out Sakura’s flaws, since the main characters can’t do that considering she is one of the main characters. So we see Dosu point out Sakura’s lack of observation skills and talent, and Kin point out her vanity and boy chasing personality. Sakura then dramatically cuts her hair and gives a speech on how she wants to walk in front of Naruto and Sasuke and wants them to look at her back. Despite the little fight she puts up, she is easily beaten down and is saved by Ino, Shikamaru and Chouji, before Sasuke wakes up and beats up Orochimaru's henchmen, driving them away. Sakura acted like this was going to be her moment, yet it wasn't at all. She had five other characters, 4 of them supporting characters, all of whom showed much better ninja skills than her, come to her rescue.
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During Sakura and Ino's match, Sakura starts boasting how Ino is nowhere near her level. What happens is despite her bragging, she falls right into Ino's trap. Unlike Sakura, Ino actually used her wits and shinobi like strategy during the fight, using Sakura’s ego against her to successfully trap her. But because Naruto yelled Sakura's name, her inner Sakura somehow interrupted the fight and it ended in a tie. I think Ino should have won this fight but regardless it didn't make Sakura look good, just an overconfident brat who got lucky.
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The rest of Part 1 Sakura spends moping over Sasuke and getting one-paneled by Gaara in the Konoha crush arc where she again becomes a damsel in distress to no one’s surprise. Her uselessly holding a kunai has become a meme because she does it many times during the series. Despite being a liability to her team she never thinks about how to better her skills nor tries to train. After Sasuke leaves and Sakura fails to stop him, she goes to Naruto and begs him with tears in her eyes to bring Sasuke back. Considering how many support characters have contributed massively in Part 1, a main character like Sakura achieving nothing just puts it into perspective how useless she really is. She has been a damsel in every single arc. When Naruto fails to bring Sasuke back, Sakura decides to ask Tsunade to train her, and tells Naruto next time she will go with him to get Sasuke back. The thing is, she should have had the resolve to train and change herself already before Sasuke left. She should have realized she put her team constantly in jeopardy by being weak. She read all about what life of a shinobi entails yet she seemed to treat it as some playground where she can play damsel while everyone around her protects her. It’s only when her crush left and Naruto failed to bring him back that she bothers to make an effort.
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At the start of Part 2, Kakashi gives Naruto and Sakura yet another bell test, and Sakura shows some potential by showing off her chakra punch. But in the end, they manage to finally get the bells due to Naruto's plan. Some people act like Sakura is the smart one in team 7 yet she constantly fails to showcase this smartness of hers. Next, team 7 is assigned by Tsunade to rescue Kazekage Gaara. Sakura swears that this time, she will save both Naruto and Sasuke. Again, she sets up a high goal for herself, only to never achieve it. Sakura does however, mix up an antidote to heal Kankuro after he got attacked by Sasori. Next Chiyo and Sakura get ready for a fight with Sasori. Notice how this is the only fight where Sakura actually manages to not fail? It's because Chiyo is literally directing her moves, both verbally and physically. But I will give her credit for using the antidote to survive Sasori's poison, and taking the hit for Chiyo. Sasori was also apparently suicidal and didn’t avoid the last hit but I don’t dwell on that too much.
Now I need to mention something that is very important to note when it comes to Sakura’s character writing. Whenever Sakura does anything she’s complimented countless times by Kakashi, Chiyo, Sasori, and basically everyone she comes across. Kakashi starts to talk about how she might be able to surpass Tsunade, just because she punches the ground once in front of him. Chiyo hails her as a girl who can surpass Tsunade as well, before even seeing her fighting abilities. Hashirama thinks her power might be greater than Tsunade’s despite not even seeing what his granddaughter can do. And this goes on and on. This is Kishimoto intentionally raising up the audience's expectations, only to later intentionally bring them down. Superficial readers think she is smart and could possibly surpass Tsunade because other characters say so, but people who actually read the manga and pay attention can see that Sakura never lives up to the expectations placed on her.
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Right after this arc, Sakura goes back to being useless and not contributing much especially considering the screentime she gets. Despite being able to avoid Sasori’s attacks with the help of Chiyo, in the Tenchi Bridge arc she gets first knocked out by Kabuto's flying butt because she's not watching where she's going, and needs to be saved by Yamato. Then she doesn’t let Yamato do his job and gets knocked out by Naruto's 4-tailed form, and needs to be saved by Yamato and healed by Kabuto. When they finally meet Sasuke she charges at him with no apparent strategy and needs to be saved by Yamato again, who gets injured in the process.
So after the entire part 1 of being useless, and 15 chapters of not being useless, Sakura needs to be saved multiple times by Yamato while contributing nothing. To people who paid more attention when reading the manga, this arc made them realize Sakura was never gonna change and this is how her character would always going to be. But others were still starstruck by the previous arc, and would only realize it later.
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In the Akatsuki Suppression arc she pretty much does nothing worth mentioning. She is tasked to go help Shikamaru but the latter has already taken care of Hidan by himself. In the Itachi Pursuit arc she doesn’t do anything either, but only follows the dogs tracking Sasuke’s scent. In the Pain arc a lot of characters contribute in the fight against Pain, even Konohamaru who is just a kid manages to defeat one of the paths of Pain, while Sakura is again shown crying and screaming for Naruto. What was that about saving Naruto and Sasuke? If she’s so strong as she acts like she is she could have at least tried to buy some time for Naruto instead of crying like a total whimp.
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There’s also a constant pattern of Sakura trying to demonstrate her "powers" or "strategy" and failing. This happened again in the start of the Five kage Summit arc when she tried to fight with the Kumo warriors, got immediately facekicked to the ground and had to be rescued by Naruto yet again. And this is not even the worst. In the same arc she attempts to take down Sasuke by herself, drugging her teammates so they can’t help her, and ends up failing when Sasuke figures out what she’s trying to do and she needs to be saved first by Kakashi and then by Naruto. As always, she aims too high and falls flat on her face. She ends the arc moping how she can’t do anything except to trust Naruto. Of course, Kishimoto doesn’t forgot to mention that Sasuke is resistant to poison, so Sakura’s attempt of killing him whether she succeeded stabbing him or not would have been futile either way. Again, she is failing to come even close to her own goals she set for herself. She is once again a liability that needs saving. And so the audience is frustrated and annoyed with her character. They are thinking, why is this girl who is constantly bragging about her skills constantly making a fool out of herself, crying pathetically and needing to be rescued? Well, that would be because she is supposed to be a person who is completely misguided about her own skills.
In the war arc, Sakura isn’t any better. The war arc only amplifies what we already have seen and know. That Kishimoto uses subversion to show Sakura’s character as overall irrelevant, and to show she’s all talk. In part 1, Sakura is said to be smart and she boasts about her skills yet she can’t do anything in an actual fight, but has to be saved by multiple characters, including Naruto, whom she considered inferior to herself. This of course made people annoyed with her character. When part 2 started, other characters were again commenting on her potential and how she had supposedly grown. So many people got hopeful that she had actually grown a lot and changed. And yet, as I have pointed out, she tried to show off many times and failed miserably. Which made people even more frustrated with her. Because they had gotten their hopes up. The Five Kage Summit arc was definitely the ultimate breaking point. After Sakura’s ridiculous attempt to manipulate Naruto, her drugging her teammates while leaving them defenseless on the ground and her trying to take down Sasuke and failing, she was certified as the fandom’s laughing stock. But some of her stans still remained, and thought she would redeem herself. Somehow.
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Then comes the 4th shinobi war. Sakura has mostly been in the background healing people, but when Sasuke shows up, she is suddenly motivated to show off for real. She even gets pissed when Naruto is about to go with Sasuke and suggests to her that she could take a break. Sakura insists she is also part of team 7 and that she surely can keep up with the two of them. We have a panel hyping up Team 7. Then Sakura gets a moment to make a big punch after which she boasts and thinks she’s better than Tsunade, insulting the latter in the process. But she’s not paying attention to her surroundings and needs to be saved by the boys, after which she starts to boast how she will steal the Hokage seat from Naruto and how now they will all fight together with their backs to each other. She then reaffirms herself that she has finally caught up to Naruto and Sasuke. This level of arrogance needs to be backed up, otherwise the audience will get annoyed. And it did annoy a big portion of the fandom, considering they had seen for the past 600 chapters or so Sakura talking about how she wants to be on par with Naruto and Sasuke, how she won’t be a liability anymore and it all leading to nothing except disappointment after disappointment. Sakura’s confidence and ego are greatly disproportionate for someone of her capabilities, which a big part of the audience notices, whether consciously or subconsciously. And this is of course intentional.
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She is left on the sidelines again when Naruto and Sasuke are too busy being ”the main act” and fighting perfectly in sync. Sakura has to ask Hinata what is even happening with the two of them. Sakura keeps healing people, but eventually Naruto’s chakra starts to help her with the healing.
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Then we get to one of the most infamous moments with Sakura, that resembles another infamous moment in the Five kage summit arc, when she tried to take down Sasuke with a poisoned kunai. In this moment Obito is asking Sakura to stab his rinnegan eye with a kunai. In both moments, she can’t come up with a resolve to use her kunai but just trembles centimeters away from her target. Taking her time shaking she then gets attacked by her opponent, and ends up being saved. In both cases, she wastes her chance because she’s a total whimp who has no resolve to do what she pretends she can do. And thus, the audience is annoyed once again. And the people who always knew what she was like make fun of her.
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But Kishimoto won’t stop there. In the very same chapter, when Sakura is trying to heal Kakashi, Naruto takes over and not only heals him but also gives him a brand new eye, something Sakura of course isn’t able to do. Healing was the only thing she could do and even that was taken from her! So much for her being a relevant member of Team 7 who is on par with Naruto and Sasuke.
Kakashi then starts reminiscing about Team 7, and it ends with him reminding the three about his first lesson, which was team work being the key to success. So what happens?
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Sakura begans to once again nurse her own insecurities and tries to show off to satisfy her own ego by charging at Madara and telling the boys to follow her. She has no idea of Madara’s strengths and weaknesses and what would you know, her punch is stopped and she gets stabbed in the chest and is once again rescued by Naruto. And what does she do? Mopes that Sasuke doesn’t pay attention to her nor seems to care. She cares more about showing off to Sasuke than defeating Madara, even when this is about a threat to the whole world. What a great shinobi. It’s a callback to part 1 when she moped over the fact Sasuke didn’t care about her climbing the tree. Just like with her shaking with the kunai, it’s just another moment that shows she never truly changes. Not in ways that matter.
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And then we see Naruto and Sasuke actually fight Madara, and Sakura literally just stands there in awe of them. She’s shook by Madara’s power which she obviously had no clue about. Of course Sakura still tries to go after the boys but Kakashi stops her and says it’s pointless to do so unless she has a plan. And she stops, and stares at Naruto and Sasuke’s backs as they disappear. Hah. She once again, has failed to achieve the goal she sets for herself. Kishimoto hyped up team 7 yet constantly showed Sakura failing and being left behind, despite how much she claimed she could keep up with the two of them. The way Kishimoto writes her, by making Sakura herself or others hype her, and then showing she’s actually lame is very consistent and relentless.
Taking into consideration that she’s a main character, and all the times that she’s promised major improvement, what we received was just pathetic. When you add it to the fact that she’s a member of such an over-achieving team, it makes her look pitiful in comparison. But it’s supposed to be. Don’t even think this is unintentional from Kishimoto. Sakura was supposed to be someone who never changes.
SAKURA’S PERSONALITY AND HER RELATIONSHIPS WITH OTHERS
Now a little more on Sakura’s personality and the way she interacts with others which is definitely one of the reasons why many people hate her.
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In the beginning, she is introduced as a shallow girl who is focused on her looks and getting the attention of the popular boy in the class, rather than being a good shinobi. She gets called out on her vanity by not only Sasuke but also by her enemies. She is pretty quick to give up on the bell test which annoys Sasuke. One wonders why is she even a shinobi when her resolve is so weak. She beats and berates Naruto and is only able to treat him better by mimicking Sasuke. Despite Kakashi’s comments on all of them maturing Sakura hasn’t changed at all at the start of the Chunin exam arc but she keeps asking Sasuke on dates instead of training and also squeals for him like a fangirl. She mopes that she’s not good enough for the Chunin exam and only gets motivated when Sasuke compliments her. This type of shallow and weak characterization made many people instantly dislike her.
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In the chunin exams we also find out she broke her friendship with Ino after she found out Ino liked Sasuke as well. This is something that gave more background to her character but at the same time made people dislike her even more, since Ino is someone who reached out to Sakura and helped her build her self-esteem yet Sakura simply dumped her and started a catty rivalry over Sasuke. In Part 2, they only interact once, and during that moment Sakura wants Sai to call Ino ugly. You can’t really call it a beautiful friendship when Sakura is constantly shown as catty and the only person who does anything for the other is Ino. It’s Ino who reaches out to Sakura. It’s Ino who comes to her rescue in the Forest of Death. It’s Ino who compliments her after their match. What has Sakura done for Ino other than wanting her to be called ugly and teaching her kid to keep Ino away from Sasuke?
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During Sakura and Ino’s match, Kakashi says Sakura isn’t the type to brag and bully others, even when we have seen her do both constantly. Already in the Land of Waves she bragged how she doesn’t need to train despite not being able to do anything in a fight. She also constantly berates Naruto and acts superior to him, aside from punching him all the time over nothing. Sakura having a bloated sense of superiority and tendency to brag about her skills is a consistent character trait of hers. But she never manages to truly back up her arrogant attitude but comes off as weak and overall irrelevant, which is yet another thing that makes her an unlikeable character in the eyes of the audience. In the war she also insults Tsunade, the one who taught her, while boasting how she is better than her like she’s some badass when she is far from it. When has she created her own jutsu or made anything revolutionary? During the same chapter she also brags how she’s gonna steal the Hokage seat from Naruto. Yes Naruto, the guy who keeps saving her useless ass all the time.
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Speaking of Kakashi, he is a character that Kishimoto used in his writing as someone who treats Sakura with kid gloves and coddles her. This is one reason why some people defend her character, and why some people ship the two of them. If you’re a Sakura stan, it must feel validating when some character constantly defends your fave’s stupid behavior. But Kakashi is someone who not only admits to not understand Sasuke, but also someone who clearly doesn’t understand Sakura, as we see from the earlier image how Sakura’s behavior contradicts with Kakashi’s claims since the beginning. Basically, if you need to know how Sakura really is like, just flip what Kakashi says about her and you’ll know. Since Sakura is part of the main team, Kishimoto needed some character to defend her behavior so she wouldn’t be confronted about it too much. But smart readers aren’t fooled. It’s also worth noting that Kakashi tells Sasuke Sakura still loves him despite the fact Sasuke tried to kill her, while conveniently omitting the fact Sakura went there to kill Sasuke herself. This makes Kakashi look hypocritical but Kishimoto needed some character to do this because of Boruto, and it’s not like he was gonna use Naruto, the one he himself called Sasuke’s ally.
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Then we have Sakura’s hypocritical behavior, that Kishimoto also consistently portrayed. During Sakura and Ino’s match, Sakura says Ino is a girl who is focused only on her looks and that she wouldn’t want to be on the same level with her, despite the fact Sakura herself was shown brushing her hair in the Forest of Death and getting dragged for her vanity. She also got upset and hit Naruto when he tried to pee in front of her, saying she’s a lady, yet thought to herself how she would like to see Sasuke pee in front of her. When trying to plead to Sasuke to not go, Sakura says revenge won’t bring anyone happiness, but when it doesn’t work she flips completely on what she said and asks Sasuke to take her with him so she can help him. Even if she acts like she cares about Sasuke’s well-being, what she really cares about are her own feelings. Sasuke unsurprisingly finds this annoying as do many readers. Sakura makes fun of Naruto and insults him, yet gets enraged when Sai calls her names and she proceeds to hit both him and Naruto. She also gets mad at Konohamaru and Naruto for their sexy no jutsus, yet when Konohamaru showed her hot boys naked, one of them being Sasuke, she went all gaga over it.
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Sakura is also introduced as a bully who beats Naruto up and mocks him in front of Sasuke who then proceeds to call her out on her terrible behavior. In this chapter, Kishimoto made Sakura call Naruto ”annoying” and then made Sasuke throw her own insult back at her when Sakura mocked Naruto, by calling her annoying. Something that is worth noting is that while Sakura also reacted to Lee badly at first, after he saved her she didn’t do anything bad to him anymore. Yet while she later realizes she was wrong about Naruto’s resolve, and that he cheers for her when she needs it, and that he saved her countless times, she keeps beating him up over nothing and berating him. She still keeps calling him stupid and acting like she knows better. This is why whenever she cries for him, it’s hard to feel any liking to her, because she comes off as more like a poser who will surely soon bash his head in if he dares to behave like himself, or drop him for the sake of Sasuke. Her treatment of Naruto is unreasonably bad at times, but it’s easily explained. In the beginning we find out Sakura dislikes Naruto because she thinks he comes between her and Sasuke. And we see many instances where this notion is amplified by the text. But Sakura is too delusional to understand the reason there is distance between her and Sasuke is simply because Sasuke isn’t interested in her, she’s too shallow and juvenile for him to pay attention to.
Her fake confessing to Naruto and trying to manipulate him made a lot of people lose all respect for her. She also showed she knew so little of Naruto she accidentally managed to tap into all of his insecurities in her confession. She also somehow believed Naruto was really chasing Sasuke for her sake and that he would give up if she offered herself to him.
Her second confession to Sasuke is also very telling of her jealousy of Naruto and Sasuke’s bond. She yells how she can’t exchange blows with Sasuke, how she can’t get close to him, how the only thing she can do is cry and beg. Considering how Naruto is the one who is about to exhange blows with Sasuke yet again, and how Sasuke after their fight talks about how Naruto kept coming closer to him, Sakura is clearly thinking of Naruto when she is having this meltdown. Sakura was shown to be jealous of Naruto’s improvement and skills in Part 1, but she is also jealous of Sasuke’s care and love for Naruto, which she wants for herself and thinks she is entitled to. Even at the start, Kishimoto said Sakura thinks Naruto stole Sasuke’s first kiss which she thought belonged to her. It’s no different at the end of the series. Her outburst is her fighting for what she thinks is rightfully hers, Sasuke, despite the fact he has given no indication that he loves her. But this makes sense. Afterall, we see Sarada come between Ino and Sasuke while Sakura laughs nervously in the background. Despite everything Ino has done for Sakura’s sake, she still sees her as a threat, to the point her own kid is doing the dirty work for her.
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Let’s talk more about Sakura’s relationship, or lack there of, with Sasuke. We know Sakura was portrayed like any other fangirl of Sasuke in the beginning, who liked his looks and how cool he was. She never tried to approach Sasuke as a friend but only kept asking him on dates despite his blatant rejections. She never says why she loves him, or even likes him. According to herself Sasuke never says anything to her. Her first confession showed how little she understood Sasuke. She was the girl with everything, with family, while Sasuke and Naruto had nothing. Yet she had the nerve to say if Sasuke left she would be just as lonely as he was. She’s comparing the massacre of Sasuke’s family to a boy she never talks to leaving her, while disrespecting her own parents in the process. How juvenile that must have sounded like to someone like Sasuke. In Part 1 Sasuke occassionally protects Sakura because she’s too weak to protect herself, and in part 2 Sakura probably wanted to entertain the thought Sasuke would still have this consideration for her. But in Part 2 Sasuke treats Sakura like a fodder ninja. She doesn’t manage to get a proper reaction out of Sasuke who focuses on Naruto everytime he meets up with his former team. Sasuke also leaves Sakura to die couple times while choosing to save Naruto instead. Despite all this, Sakura still thought she’s entitled to Sasuke, and in her second confession she started to yet again scream how much she loves Sasuke and how much she hurts due to it. In both of her confessions she is guilt tripping Sasuke and trying to make him pity her. In both of her confessions she makes everything about herself. She admits to herself she can’t do anything for Sasuke, yet she tries to win him over by pity. But she annoys Sasuke once again, and he puts her in a murder genjutsu. Sasuke then says they have no reason to love each other. And he’s right. What does Sakura know about Sasuke? Clearly nothing, considering she said the worst things she could have said during both of her confessions. She heard Sasuke talk about wanting change, yet she started to scream how if Sasuke stays with her, things can go back to how they were. It’s like the most basic things she doesn’t understand. She’s just an overemotional child who has nothing of worth to say. Kakashi who coddles her tries to talk to Sasuke on her behalf as well, insisting Sakura suffers for loving him. Sasuke then thinks of his family and says perhaps those are ties to a failed past. As in Sakura literally lives in the past. And she does. Despite the fact everything has changed, she thinks about the moment when Sasuke thanked her, and ignores him calling her annoying for her ignorant comments, or the fact someone who wants change obviously doesn’t want to go back to the way things were. This brutal rejection though still won’t slow Sakura down, but after Sasuke is leaving to his atonement trip Sakura blushes like a school girl and asks to come with him. After him mocking her and putting her in a genjutsu, this is what she does.
And Kishimoto still won’t stop there. After all of Sakura’s boasting that ended in failure, after the brutal genjutsu and her being made mostly irrelevant, we see her destroy her own house because her kid asked about her marriage with Sasuke and she got insecure. I have to ask how do some people not realize Kishimoto despises Sakura and writes her as a terrible person? She is a bad daughter who doesn’t understand how lucky she is but is ready to ditch her parents for an indifferent boy’s sake. She is a bad student who disrespects Tsunade for no reason. She is a bad friend who treats Ino and Naruto badly out of insecurity. She is a bad person who treats the target of her crush like an object instead of a person. She is a bad shinobi as well who is most of the time a liability. And she is a bad mother as well. When she’s insisting to Sarada that Sasuke cares about them, she’s sweating and looking nervous, she’s clearly not confident in what she says. Kishimoto also drops two implications that Sasuke never kissed Sakura. Because that is apparently important for us to know. Sakura then tries to insist a forehead poke is better than a kiss. Yet when Sasuke is leaving, she is waiting for a kiss and not a poke. And she is rejected, and looks like a wet rag just like everytime Sasuke rejected her before ever since she was a kid. It’s hard to think of a female character that is more pathetic than her.
And yet, we have SS insisting Sasuke surely knew Sakura could take care of herself, that’s why he left her to die and saved Naruto instead, who didn’t need saving. Surely Sasuke thinks about Sakura as an individual and not just a member of team 7. Despite the fact we have never seen Sasuke think about Sakura outside of team 7 context nor say anything about what he likes and admires about Sakura. Surely Sakura is the most important person to Sasuke, that’s why Kishi wrote Sasuke say to Hagoromo, to Naruto and to himself that Naruto is the only one he still cares about. That’s why Kishimoto wrote Sasuke say Naruto is the only one who never gave up on him. That’s why he wrote Sasuke say Naruto alone saved him. Despite the fact Sakura wanted to be part of saving Sasuke with Naruto, Kishimoto would never let her. Because he doesn’t like her, or SS.
As a final note, a lot of the manga revolved around the importance of family and bonds, yet Sakura, the girl who had parents unlike the rest of her team, is shown to disrespect them everytime she brings them up. And she’s never redeemed on this. This is also intentional from Kishimoto, of course. Sakura is too selfish, too ungrateful and shallow to understand what she has. She’d rather chase a guy who keeps rejecting her like he’s some trophy she owns, all the while trivializing his pain over the loss of his family, by acting like she understands. And she’s ready to throw away her parents, her friends, and her dignity for the sake of this guy who was never interested in her. What’s worst is she had many opportunities to change and mature, yet she choose not to. And thus she remained the same self centred, superficial person she always was.
Actually this is the final note: @sneezemonster15 is a co-creator of this post. She has also talked about Sakura on her blog, for example that war arc part here. Another example is here (but you can just generally go through her anti-sakura tag). But I wanted all this on one big text since certain people are very stubborn about us “picking” supposedly minor things to bash Sakura for when this is throughout the whole manga. And since tumblr doesn’t let her add more than 10 images to a post for some reason I decided to write this down.
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tonguetyd · 20 days
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If your wings won’t find you heaven, I will bring it down like an ancient bygone
I’ve always liked this line, but hearing it live made it click in a way it hadn’t before
Feels scheduled ahead
When Ves sang this line in Radio City I had the image pop in my head of the scene from It’s A Wonderful Life. “What do you want Mary, you want the moon? Just say the word and I’ll throw a lasso around it and bring it down for you. Say that’s a pretty good idea. I’ll give you the moon.”
So another way to look at this line. “If you can’t find your heaven, despite the wings you have, despite the divinity you have been granted, if you just cannot find joy? That’s ok. I’ll bring it down for you. I’ll fight like hell for you. I’ll give you that joy, I’ll sauté those horrors, you postpone that funeral RIGHT now, I am going to find the heaven you deserve.”
I wish I could remember who it was (probably @melit0n ‘s Euclid essay tbh but it may have been someone else) but someone wrote a theory that Euclid is the first song written thru not the character of Vessel’s eyes, but the guy/singer/songwriter/ACTUAL dude on stage Vessel himself. And I thought it was kinda an interesting theory but I think combining that with this idea makes it a little weightier. Because, Vessel the character is very much a part of Vessel the guy by virtue of the fact he embodies the character on stage every night. Just as Vessel the guy is (presumably) in a lot of Vessel the character. They’re the same, he’s not real, hes just some guy, hes acid and alkaline, etc etc.
(Edit I reread my tags, this post from @a-s-levynn is definitely the first time I saw this idea, yes THANK YOU LEV)
So. Point being. If this is Vessel the guy singing to Vessel the character, “despite your wings and all that Sleep has given you, you still cannot find peace. So I will bring it down for you. I will be your mouthpiece, I will write the words and tell your story. And you will find the love you want.”
That’s Ves speaking to himself.
And I think that is incredibly powerful and the most self-romantic thing I have ever heard. I’ll be your my joy and bring you myself heaven and the moon.
.
Recovering from depression and wanting to leave everything behind is a long fucking road. Idk that you ever really stop being on that road. I certainly still feel like I’m on that road even all these years later, but…the biggest thing that keeps you going is for your past self. At least for me anyway. I fight for the little girl that lives in me who thinks she will never be loved and needs to be perfect and ruins everything and is constantly reminded of how unforgiving the world is.
Baby girl, if you can’t find yourself heaven, I will bring it down for you. I’ve got you. I am hugging you so tight and telling you everything will be okay, my love. Look at us now. We’re still here. And we’re just fine. We are doing great. We’re alright and loved. And I will keep fighting like hell for you and to keep you safe and happy.
And so I think this is similar to what Ves is saying to himself. And it makes it that much more of a hopeful song. “Yes, I must be someone new, but moreso…I will keep living.
I will fight, for you.”
The next time you sing that line. Sing it to your younger self. Or to the parts of you that you feel are most difficult to love. Promise to fight for them. Bring down heaven.
And try not to cry
And if YOUR wings won’t find you heaven? I got you, too. ❤️
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psychhound · 8 months
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ttrpgs in the classroom (part 4)
howdy!! back again after,, a time away (grad school is insane <33 save me <33) for a long overdue classroom post!!
so this one is about our first big essay assignment, the personal narrative essay! we'll actually be going over a number of games for this one!!
the assignment:
write a 900-1200 word personal narrative essay by playing a solo journaling ttrpg and reflecting on the experience using the prompts provided
the prompts:
What memory surfaced while you were playing the game, and why do you think that is?
What was your main emotion while playing, and where do you think that emotion came from?
What story from your childhood did your playthrough remind you of, and how did you come to know that story?
How did playing through the game inspire you? Is there a change you want to make in your life because of this experience?
Did playing through the game remind you of a success or failure from your real life, and if so, how did playing help you reflect on this?
the games: (as presented on the assignment sheet)
The Lighthouse at the Edge of the Universe by @lostwaysclub
You are a lighthouse keeper in the far reaches of space. Every day, there is work to be done to maintain your lighthouse, safeguarding passing ships from the edge of the universe. Log your observations, maintenance, and events while facing threats like emotion-driven weather.
Yourself
You have just discovered that you are a changeling: something between human and fey. Over five acts, you will reckon with this new discovery, and let your feelings shift and grow.
Snow
There’s something on your mind. There’s snow in the driveway. As you take the time to shovel it out, you think through and process your situation, whether mundane or life-altering.
Long Haul 1983 by @seanpatrickcain
You are a long-haul truck driver making a journey through an empty but dangerous world. Each day, you face a long, lonely highway filled with threats—whether mechanical, supernatural, or psychological. Each night, you make a payphone call to your most important person and leave them a message, though they never pick up.
Last Tea Shop (CW: death)
You own a tea shop on the border between the worlds of the living and the dead. As people pass from the first to the last, they stop into your teashop to have a drink and talk with you.
&
village witch - which was not on the assignment sheet but one student asked special permission to play this one after we listened to an actual play podcast that played this game (alone at the table by @ladytabletop) and the themes of the game really spoke to her
(if folks know other tumblrs for the creators feel free to tag them!!)
the results:
i was really really happy with these essays overall. the students wrote about some very impactful memories and emotions, and all seemed to get a lot out of playing
i had a lot of essays that came back and said "i never thought i'd be a gamer but i really enjoyed this" or "i didn't think i would get anything out of this experience but it really moved me". i was particularly happy with the essay from the business major that said "this was way better than being on my phone" considering these are 18 year olds still adjusting after years of the pandemic and leaving home for the first time and also this was homework
the most popular game played was last tea shop, and i had a mix of responses of "this made me realize how much i value my friends" to "i really need to value my friends and memories with them more" to "i really want to make more friends". i also had students who said this game helped them process grief over losing loved ones
long haul was also a popular one, and i got my most descriptive writing out of this game. it was interesting who the students chose to make their calls to, as well as what they chose the threats to be. one student got a bad ending and decided to play the whole thing again so he could make it home
the students who played lighthouse found it really soothing, as the game intends, and said it was a good way to process things that were on their mind after some of them had rough days leading up to playing (one student said he had to start over because he almost fell asleep on his desk after the game was too relaxing)
and with snow, none of the students chose to meditate on things directly from their lives, but all ended up finding that they had unconsciously put things they needed to process into the game and found new perspectives on them from playing. the kids who chose this one were the most surprised at what they got out of the experience
no one ended up choosing to play yourself, so i may switch this one out for future classes
the reason i chose these games in particular is that they all have an element of choice, and they all deal with emotions in some way. i thought this was a really successful first assignment and was glad the students all seemed invested and excited to play more after this
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