#8.14 trial and error

[rinoa2530]

The fact we didn’t have more of Dean in glasses is an absolute travesty.

8.14 Trial and Error

[spacedean]

DEAN WINCHESTER in 8.14 TRIAL AND ERROR

[aliusfrater]

supernatural, trial and error [8.14]

[padaleckigallery]

Supernatural - 8.14 Trial And Error

[winchestergifs]

DEAN WINCHESTER ✧ 8.14 TRIAL AND ERROR

[castiellesbian]

Cathryn Humphris:

1.20 Dead Man's Blood (with John Shiban)

2.07 The Usual Suspects

2.14 Born Under a Bad Sign

3.05 Bedtime Stories

3.10 Dream a Little Dream of Me (with Sera Gamble)

4.04 Metamorphosis

4.14 Sex and Violence

Andrew Dabb (episodes co-written with Loflin are labeled with*):

4.06 Yellow Fever*

4.13 After School Special*

4.19 Jump the Shark*

5.06 I Believe the Children Are Our Future*

5.11 Sam, Interrupted*

5.16 Dark Side of the Moon*

5.19 Hammer of the Gods*

6.04 Weekend at Bobby's*

6.07 Family Matters*

6.13 Unforgiven*

6.18 Frontierland*

7.03 The Girl Next Door*

7.08 Season Seven, Time for a Wedding!*

7.14 Plucky Pennywhistle's Magic Menagerie*

7.22 There Will Be Blood*

8.02 What's Up, Tiger Mommy?*

8.08 Hunteri Heroici

8.14 Trial and Error

8.22 Clip Show

9.02 Devil May Care

9.10 Road Trip

9.20 Bloodlines

9.22 Stairway to Heaven

10.02 Reichenbach

10.09 The Things We Left Behind

10.17 Inside Man

10.22 The Prisoner

11.02 Form and Void

11.10 The Devil in the Details

11.15 Beyond the Mat (with John Bring)

11.17 Red Meat (with Robert Berens)

11.23 Alpha and Omega

12.01 Keep Calm and Carry On

12.09 First Blood

12.23 All Along the Watchtower

13.01 Lost and Found

13.10 Wayward Sisters (with Robert Berens)

13.15 A Most Holy Man (with Robert Singer)

13.23 Let the Good Times Roll

14.01 Stranger in a Strange Land

14.13 Lebanon (with Meredith Glynn)

14.20 Moriah

15.01 Back and to the Future

15.10 The Heroes' Journey

15.20 Carry On

[scoobydoodean]

hi it's gadreel anon from yesterday and i just wanna say 'there's no way in hell he'd say yes to being possessed by anything' <- direct quote from dean in 9x01. we don't know what sam would actually have said if given the choice but dean believes he would never agree to it so he and 'ezekiel' have to come up with a way to get a yes from sam without sam fully knowing what's happening. good of him to try to tell sam later but he did believe he had to wait until it was too late for sam to say no.

Hi Gadreel anon! For anyone who doesn't know, this would be related to my tags on a reblog last night about the "Gadreel Situation". Anon had also sent this very appreciated message about a much needed uquiz choice!

I also JUST got another anon message that begins with,

obsessed w people who compare sam’s willingness for death in s8/s9 (which, to me at least, read as him being suicidal) to a DNR.

So DNR anon—this is for you too!

So the issue is, Gadreel anon, in my tags I was thinking of a different moment from the one you were referring to! I was thinking of this moment:

and you were thinking of this moment earlier in the same episode:

So my bad in my tags!

(This makes me even more interested in, at some point, doing a uquiz about fandom memory haha).

Too late for Sam to say no though? I didn't say otherwise. I said that Dean wanted to put the choice back in Sam's hands as soon as possible, but then allowed himself to be convinced not to when he shouldn't have, and that either way, Gadreel would never have let Dean tell Sam.

But here's what I always come back to, which is what the OP whose post I tagged on was getting at and what I meant when I talked about analyzing the situation in a vacuum (I'm not saying this is something you are doing Gadreel Anon—it just got me thinking about some of the ways fandom talks about Sam in this context and then DNR anon came in with their frustrations):

Here's 8.14 "Trial and Error" when Sam originally insists on being the one to do The Trials.

This is a Sam full of hope. This is a Sam who knows his brother intends to treat The Trials as a way to off himself because he thinks he's disposable to everyone in his life and he's disposable to himself. So Sam insists, "No—absolutely not—you will NOT be doing The Trials in this state of mind!! I'm going to be the one to do The Trials and I am going to survive then I'm going to save you from your suicidal ideation!"

By 8.21 though, Sam is no longer a man full of hope. He's a man who believes he needs to die so everyone can be spared of him—so that he can become clean:

[Gifset (EVEN MORE HEARTBREAKING) here]. And here's a rant back and forth between me and a friend about that moment, which is also a more general commentary on my thoughts about fandom framing things as "Sam had peacefully come to the conclusion that he was ready to die and Dean shouldn't have tried to stop him from killing himself in "Sacrifice", and season 9 is just him doubling down on when he was "manipulative" and "selfish" in 8.23 because he *checks notes* convinced his suicidal brother not to kill himself, just like Sam did for him in 8.14 (also, if anyone is actively attempting to manipulate anyone in 8.23—which is not how I like to view the scene on my good days—it's not Dean <3 love and light <3).

So yeah—despite the popularity of reducing the entire thing down to "Sam was ready to die and Dean just couldn't let him go!!!" It is, in my opinion, a terrible take, because it ignores literally everything that happened and Sam's actual state of mind! He originally intended to live!! That was the WHOLE POINT!!! Then that changed to him wanting to kill himself because he thought he was dirty and that he deserved it!

So then Dean makes the same promise to Sam that Sam made to him in 8.14 and couldn't fulfill. He takes on the burden of that promise for both of them instead, and he becomes the one saying, "I'll show you to the light at the end of the tunnel and you'll see there's a future and a hope for you and that you are not irreparably broken and disposable". And Sam agrees!! He agrees that he wants to live!!!

Then they get to the hospital, and Gadreel is saying "There's only one way left I can think of to save Sam" and Dean immediately dismisses it, but then he asks Gadreel, "If I consider this – and I mean just consider it – I need something, man. You got to prove to me how bad he is." And when Dean says that, he means how suicidal is his brother? How much does he still hate himself and how much is he refusing to fight on his own because he hates himself? Is he even really fighting? And this is the answer he gets:

"Nobody else can get hurt because of me"!!! Ahhhhh!!!!

I do think one thing we can argue, is that Dean should have entered Sam's mind and convinced him to fight on his own! However, in desperation, Dean happened to have made an ill-thought-out prayer doxxing his location earlier in the day to a legion of very pissed off angels, all of whom hate his guts and know that a guy whose guts they hate even more is obsessed with him (like—Naomi making him kill thousands of fake Dean's obsessed), so beating him and his brother to death sounded really nice at that moment! So Dean did not have the time! And Sam's issues were far larger than one conversation could fix (as proved by Sam's state of mind in 9.01 coming immediately after agreeing to continue fighting in 8.23).

Dean, when he first made the decision to go into Sam's head through Gadreel to get him to say "Yes", considered the action he took as applying the charge to jolt Sam back to life after he tried to kill himself, which absolutely—was against Sam's expressed wish (re: conversation with Death) that he wanted to die. But when fans complain about that, they are complaining about something we as a society do all of the time when we want people who want to kill themselves to not kill themselves. It's just that this charge Dean applies is angelic and comes with extra strings and complications and another "thing that Sam did not want" besides just wanting to live. However, Dean was thinking, "As soon as Sam is back, I can put the decision in his hands!" Then he kept allowing himself to be convinced "A little longer", "a little longer", "just a little longer" and he thought, "Well, even if Sam hates me, at least he'll be alive!"

Some people will shrug and think, "Well, Dean should have just taken the L!" And that's okay! I have no problem with someone saying, "Dean should not have done it, because even though his motive was wanting to save his suicidal brother, the actions he took to do so were too far and therefore were wrong, and he should have prioritized respecting Sam's wishes and Sam's principles over applying angelic life-support Sam would disagree with". But that isn't what Dean did, and I... just don't think the motivations for his actions were nearly so selfish and evil as a lot of fandom wants to make them out to be, and are choices a lot of people would probably make in the same circumstances and in the same situation. Including, according to himself, Sam—who admits in 9.23, after his initial claim at the end of "The Purge" that he wouldn't do the same thing—"I lied". Then he spends all of season 10 proving all kinds of insane and morally questionable lengths he'll go to to keep Dean around!!! Things that he knows Dean does not agree with!!! While Sam doesn't directly let something possess Dean, in season 10, Dean does not want Sam to use the Book of the Damned and tells him directly not to use it several times—that he does NOT want to be saved using that book, because he is afraid of the consequences. However, Sam uses it anyway and orders Oskar up a human sacrifice in his wake with absolutely zero remorse—like he is ordering pizza—which is something Sam also knows, and has known since season 3 when Sam had a couple of plots that involved it, that Dean is not cool with at all!!! And hardcore Sam stans will argue "Well Sam was trying to save the world from Dean!" but actually no!! He chose this specific path that involved removing The Mark and saving his brother (despite the forewarned cosmic consequences and Dean's repeated insistence that said consequences were unacceptable) rather than locking Dean away forever, because he wanted his brother back!!! And while they were standing in a town being ripped to shreds by Amara, Sam said, "I would do it again"!

All of that to say—I'm not saying nothing Dean did was wrong, but fandom's analysis of the whole situation is bad and attributes motivations to Dean and Sam that are wrong!!!

[demigodcastiel]

Dean’s depressing ass speech in 8.14 Trial And Error makes me cryyy

[milfsisyphus]

watching dean set up his room in the bunker. the records. the picture of mary. no one look at me. i..

[winchesternova-k]

dean saying he’s just a grunt and that he’s willing to die so sam can have a normal life makes me hate john even more than before. dean rlly thinks he’s worth nothing and that he’s only good for making sam’s life better

*WINC*ST SHIPPERS DNI*

[arwenadreamer]

Sam and Dean arguing over who should do the trials to close the gates of hell.

Dean: And you told me yourself that you see a way out. You see a light at the end of this ugly-ass tunnel. I don't. But I tell you what I do know – it's that I'm gonna die with a gun in my hand. 'Cause that's what I have waiting for me. That's all I have waiting for me. I want you to get out. I want you to have a life, become a man of Letters, whatever. You, with a wife and kids and – and – and grandkids, living till you're fat and bald and chugging Viagra, that is my perfect ending, and it's the only one that I'm gonna get. 

Later.

Sam: I want to slam hell shut, too, okay? But I want to survive it. I want to live, and so should you. You have friends up here, family. I mean, hell, you even got your own room now. You were right, okay? I see light at the end of this tunnel. And I'm sorry you don't – I am. But it's there. And if you come with me, I can take you to it.

Favourite quote per episode

8.14 Trial And Error

File that under: Things that hit different after the finale.

Bonus favourite quote:

Sam: I believe in you, Dean. So please, please, believe in me, too.

[samgifsdaily]

[spacedean]

DEAN WINCHESTER in one random episode per day ‣ 23/327 8.14 TRIAL AND ERROR

[padaleckigallery]

Supernatural 8.14 Trial And Error

[a-walking-fandom-reference]

spn pride week day 4 + 6: wlw + queer poc - stacy, stevie, ellie, linda tran, patience turner, dagon, tasha banes

spn pride series 17/?: wlw of color

[ID: Seven edited photos of different Supernatural characters of color shown from shoulders up. Their backgrounds are edited to be pink with hues of light lavender and their shirts/jackets are edited to be purple. Each photo has the character's first name in a pride flag gradient and their last name or descriptor underneath and slightly behind in smaller white caps.

1: Stacy from Lebanon is sitting next to Max and turned to look at her with a sweet smile. She has a purple coat on. The text says “Stacy” in a sapphic flag gradient and “Lebanon” in white.

2: Stevie is leaning over a table smiling down at Charlie from Apocalypse World after serving her breakfast. She has a purple t-shirt on. The text says “Stevie” in a lesbian flag gradient and “Apocalypse” in white.

3: Ellie from 8.14 is looking up at Dean with her head tilted slightly to the right and a kind smile. She has a purple jean jacket on. The text says “Ellie” in a pan flag gradient and “Trial and Error” in white.

4: Linda Tran is standing with her eyebrows raised and arms crossed giving a determined expression towards the Winchester brothers. She has a purple floral top on over a white tank top. The text says “Linda” in a bi flag gradient and “Tran” in white.

5: Patience Turner is looking over her shoulder with a small smile. She has a purple sweater over a light purple collared shirt. The text says “Patience” in a lesbian flag gradient and “Turner” in white.

6: Dagon is sitting facing forward, their head turned to look slightly to the right. They have a slightly forced smile and a purple jacket on. The text says “Dagon” in a sapphic flag gradient and “Prince of Hell” in white.

7: Tasha Banes is looking over at her kids (offscreen) smiling. She is wearing a purple jacket over a dark denim button-up. The text says “Tasha” in an omni flag gradient and “Banes” in white. END ID]

[deansraspberrypie]

Dean in henley

❤️😍🔥🥰

Supernatural - 8.14 - Trial and Error

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