I keep thinking about this exchange.
I must've heard this line many times across my various play-troughs bc I love having Zev along but it never struck me until now that he might actually be lowkey threatening the mayor on the warden's behalf?
Because normally Zevran's pretty lighthearted when making snide comments, or has like a lighthearted tone. But the delivery on this one's downright cold! We didn't even recruit Zev that long ago when he said it but I guess he's taking his oath to protect the warden pretty seriously 🥺 I think he also says this line in regards to Murdock being weird about your warden being a woman, even if you aren't a mage.
But (at least to me) its like extra meaningful when your warden's a mage bc like. You've been told your whole life that the people outside the circle are scared of/ hate you, that you're in the circle for your own protection as well as to protect everyone else from you. So Murdock reacting as he does is really proving the templars right, more or less, but then its instantly contradicted by Zev sticking up for you! Like sure, some people will fear/ distrust you for your magic on sight, but not everyone. There are people out there who won't care at all. Who will see you as a person, not just a mage.
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Wynne defending children from the Templars
It’s interesting to reflect on Wynne’s Establishing Character Moment in Dragon Age: Origins, especially in light of the strange whitewashing of the Templar Order in Inquisition as well as her apparently conservative politics. When we encounter her in Broken Circle (our first interaction with her since the brief chat at Ostagar), we see her fighting to protect a group of young children not only from demons but from the Templars -- the very military force that claims to protect them. If she is recruited into the party, in fact, we discover that she had already sacrificed her life for them. She is technically dead/undead and only kept standing due to possession by a spirit of Faith.
As soon as the party enters the door, she’s fearful that the Warden has come to kill them all on behalf of Knight-Commander Greagoir, and depending on player choices/intentions, she may in fact be correct.
Wynne: It’s you! No... come no further. Grey Warden or no, I will strike you down where you stand!
Warden: Wynne - what are you doing here?
Wynne: I am a mage of the Circle. More importantly, why are you here? The templars would not let just anyone by.
Warden: You have children with you.
Wynne: The tower is a place of learning. Young apprentices are always here. Why is that surprising?
Wynne: But this is no time to discuss that. Why are you here? Why did the templars let you in?
Warden: I am helping Greagoir resolve the Circle’s difficulties.
Wynne: Then you do serve the templars as I feared. Do they have the Right of Annulment?
Warden: The Right of Annulment?
Wynne: The order from the grand cleric allowing the templars to completely annul a Circle. Do they have it?
Warden: No, but Greagoir expects it to arrive soon.
Wynne: So Greagoir thinks the Circle is beyond hope. He probably assumes we are all dead.
Wynne: They abandoned us to our fate, but even trapped as we are, we have survived. If they invoke the Right, however, we will not be able to stand against them.
Warden: It’s nothing less than this Circle deserves.
Wynne: Do these children deserve death too? Will they die by your hand?
Warden: Mages are a danger. If I had a say, you would all be culled.
Wynne: Killing us solves nothing, but with training and education, mages learn to control their powers.
Wynne: You’re mad if you think I’ll let you lay a finger on these children. If will fight you if you won’t listen to reason.
Wynne: I am not afraid of you.
Warden: This Circle must be destroyed, for all our sakes.
Wynne: If you insist on making war on the Circle, we have nothing more to discuss. It comes to blows, then. I will stop you or die trying.
BONUS - terrified child fleeing from being murdered:
Commentary
While Wynne can be condescending and sometimes preachy in her support for the Circle, her dialogue both here and elsewhere indicates that she has no illusions about the Templars keeping them locked inside.
After all, they imprisoned her in Kinloch Hold since she was a young child, took her own child away from her forever, and threatened to slaughter both her and the other children she was mentoring in her son’s stead. If recruited into the party, she opens up about the despair she felt as a girl when she realized she would be trapped there forever, and it was only by turning to the religious faith that was being forced on all mages in the tower that she began to make peace with her fate. She knows that if the Libertarian Fraternity successfully leads a vote for independence from the Chantry, the Templars will simply kill them all. She even uses the term “genocide” to describe what will happen. She explicitly cites this as the reason why she opposes the independence vote.
The mages will never be free! The Chantry would never allow it. Our only hope for survival is to show them we can be trusted! Don’t you remember what happened to the Circle in Ferelden? Do you want to give the templars another excuse to call for the culling of all mages?
She doesn’t reject freedom for her fellow mages for any personal advantage, throwing others like her under the bus to reap the rewards of brown-nosing. If she wanted any semblance of power or status, after all, she would have accepted the post of First Enchanter (or second-in-line to it) a long time ago. As of Dragon Age Origins, she has consistently rejected the opportunity to become Irving’s successor. As of the end of Broken Circle, if she joins the party and defeats Uldred’s rebels, she still needs to ask for permission just to temporarily leave the tower, despite having proven her loyalty and competence beyond any reasonable doubt both here and over the past thirty or so years of incarceration. It takes helping the Hero of Ferelden save the entire country by defeating the Archdemon to convince the Templars to allow her to come and go freely - an opportunity that, as her own son later points out, no one else has had or probably ever would have in their lifetime (and one, as the only the player knows, that is entirely conditional on player choices).
The only context in which she ever even considers fighting the Templars is when she has no other way of preventing the Templars from killing them all anyways - both during Broken Circle and in the climax of Asunder.
Her politics are, in the end, based on fear.
Not the usual fear of the Other or fear of social change that hamper normal politics, but the completely rational fear, as someone at/near the bottom of the social hierarchy, about what the authorities will do to her and everyone like her if they step out of line. As it turns out, she’s not wrong about what the powers that be are and how they will react - she’s only wrong about the potential for a better future and the rewards of fighting for it.
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It's in my head that, near the end of season 3, Pete would have said something random and Ed looks over and goes "OMG! THAT'S THERE I KNOW YOU FROM! You're little Peter! You were our ship's boy when I first got started!" As everyone stares in shock.
It turns out Pete DID serve on Blackbeard's crew, but as a pre-teen. The stories he tells that seem so inflated are ghost stories the crew told to mess with the new kid, but just resulted in sparking Pete's overactive imagination (hence the hero-worship). Izzy didn't remember him because Izzy never really interacted with the kid, and he predates Fang and Ivan, but something small causes Ed to remember this unruly kid with an attitude and extreme imagination.
At the end of the explanation, Pete looks at everyone and yells "I TOLD YOU SO! Maybe not like exactly as I said but I TOLD YOU I WAS ON BLACKBEARD'S CREW!!!!"
And everyone's like "yeah, still not calling you dread black pete" and Ed says 'no, guys, c'mon, I gave him that nickname to boost his confidence!"
To which everyone stares at him again, although this time it's half shock and half irritation because there will be NO living with Pete now. They have a few minute's grace period, though, because Pete is still overjoyed that Ed remembers him at last.
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Y'know? I suspect less players would side with the Templars if Bioware didn't hold back the true horror of the Right of Annulment when the player chooses to take part in it. Like... the Templars murder everyone in the Circle down to the youngest child. That's how Annulments work. But as far as I'm aware when the Warden or Hawke sides with the Templars in those "Do you want to help murder all these innocents for the crime of existing in this place that the people wanting to murder them locked them into, or do you want to Not Do That" quests you only face adult mages, abominations, and demons. I get that having to murder children would be... a lot to put in even an M-rated game, I'm not going to pretend I can't see why they didn't do it even before the "Actually the Templars are great and the mages need to stop whining about being imprisoned, tortured, raped, and murdered for being born" retcons in DAI, but can you imagine the impact? You wanted to do it, even in the face of your companions telling you not to. Maybe a couple companions even encouraged you to do it, although in DAO at least I don't think many of them do. But you made this choice; when the Templars asked you to help murder everyone in the Circle, you said yes. Now you have to face the fact that when they said everyone they meant everyone, from the oldest Senior Enchanter to the youngest apprentice. Hey, you thought this was the right call! You thought the whole population of the Circle should be put down based on the actions of people barely connected to them if at all! So now put these screaming children to the sword as they beg you to stop because that's what the Templars told you to do. That's what you wanted, right?
Even showing the bodies of the young apprentices of the Circle would've been an excellent gut punch if the player chose to help the Templars; you could explain that as the Templars thinking maybe the people assisting them would change their minds if they had to murder children while still giving the player a glimpse of what an evil thing they're willingly taking part in. Much like how if you choose to abandon Redcliffe to its fate in DAO you then have to fight your way through the wreckage to get to the castle, I feel like the real fallout of the Annulment, which for the first two games is treated as an evil act (even when treating Anders like a monster Meredith moving to kill the population of the Circle using his actions as an excuse is treated like a horrific thing to do), would be so much more effective if the players actually had the full horror of it shoved in their faces as a punishment for choosing to take part.
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