#Adrien the People Pleaser

[ilikekidsshows]

hey I figure that you’re probably tired of talking about the Sentimonster nonsense but I genuinely still can’t stand that it’s an actual thing. The wildest thing about it is that I JOINED the fandom because of the Sentimonster theory, actually got excited for it and looked forward to hints, not believing the skeptics or the salters bc it didn’t seem like such a big deal—that is until I saw with my own eyes how SO MANY FANS said with their whole chest that, in “Ephemeral” Adrien HAD to be a Sentimonster or there was no other “sympathetic explanation” for why he didn’t de-akumatize himself or fight off Gabriel.

Seeing the victim blaming in real time was such a punch in the gut—and then they just kept on coming!! It finally hit me how damaging the entire thing because for the show as a whole. If even regular fans that weren’t even known for salting could so willingly disregard and ignore genuine abuse coping mechanisms in favor of magical BS… it was such a dark time. Abuse Apologism and victim blaming in a whole package

Sometimes, when I write about Miraculous, I pretend I'm writing about a show that only had three seasons. That's what the "zagulous fandom" tag is for; it's for posts that are about the parts of Miraculous that had Zag's executive control keeping Astruc in check. I also kinda accepted long ago that my blog's kind of a support blog for people who are against the Sentihuman concept.

When I first heard of the expanded Sentimonster theory, the one that went "all the rich kids are Sentimonsters", I instantly went: "You do realize how making victims of child abuse nonhumans with questionable rights minimizes their victimhood and excuses their abusers, right?" people told me I was making stuff up and whoopsie doo, the writers did exactly that.

Neither Gabriel nor Tomoe faced any consequences for abusing Adrien and Kagami because, after all, since they're Sentimonsters, the real abuse was that they didn't have their Amoks so giving them their Amoks resolves all their problems. The only abusive parent who gets acknowledged as such is Félix's dad, who is dead by the time we hear about any of this, because we can't have abusive parents face consequences for their actions because that might upset people or whatever excuses Astruc's giving for Gabriel's vindication now.

This also minimises all the affects of the abuse on the kids, since they can be handwaved away with: "They were just programmed that way." Kagami's bad social skills aren't because her mother isolated her, it's because she forgot to program Kagami with those skills. Félix's villainous behavior isn't because his mother is overly permissive with him, he was just programmed that way (by the eeeeevil Colt). Adrien isn't a people pleaser because he's repeating his abuse coping mechanisms with his overly controlling girlfriend to keep her happy the same way he did to his overly controlling father, he was just programmed to be the perfect doting son and boyfriend.

You'll notice how neatly this ties into the crew denying that Chloé was abused in any way ever by her clearly abusive mother. Chloé wasn't made into a Sentimonster, so we can't have her bad coping with her abuse be excused by "Sentimonster programming", so now the writers are just gaslighting the audience and saying: "Chloé wasn't mistreated by her parents which caused her to act to out to get attention (which she literally stated to be her motive in season 3), in fact, she's the one who's been terrorizing her poor, innocent father and he needs to be protected from this naturally occuring evil hellspawn."

All child abuse in this show gets excused.

Of course, now the writers have an added reason to make sure Adrien's abuse gets excused in particular: because they made Marinette benefit from it. As I said, Adrien is repeating abuse coping mechanisms learned from dealing with his father to keep Marinette happy. He's always prioritizing her feelings and never brings up his own problems, and this is good for Marinette, because she can just enjoy having a perfect boyfriend who caters to her every need and doesn't have problems of his own or with the ways she treats him (for all she knows). She's even maintaining this status quo by lying about Gabriel to Adrien, so Adrien won't get upset (and have emotional needs that she would need to help him with). Either we have to excuse Adrien's abuse, or we have to admit Marinette is benefitting from the fact that Adrien was abused, and even taking advantage with the way she makes no effort to improve their communication on her end, preferring to spy on Adrien and lie to him instead of just talking to him like an equal.

The show writers are also allergic to following through on their creative decisions, is what I think. They put all these different victims of child abuse and neglect in the show, and then dehumanized these children in different ways so that they wouldn't actually need to say anything about that abuse they wrote in and they can instead pretend it was never there. This is why I also think that, no matter how much the show's defenders insist the story isn't over yet, we will never be getting a proper resolution to the Sentinonsense.

[theerurishipper]

Honestly... Why does Chat Noir love Ladybug? Even to the end of season 5 I'm just sat here wondering because what qualities is he seeing in her that just made him fall so hard when the things she's pulled in the show would just I don't know make me dislike her lol is that why he fell for her alter ego Marinette even though they barely know each other because she's everyday Ladybug ? I don't like to hate but it sucks that like they really don't know shit about each other when it comes to their personal lives.

To me if I were to be blunt. I don't have any psychology background just guessing I think people look for a partner that heavily is inspired by their homelife and parents relationship. Maybe Adrien or whatever wants Gabriel approval and is just projecting what he goes through on her and that why he caters because she's validates him. Or maybe he just unconsciously seeks a toxic relationship because he's never had a proper dad at home. Marinette basically became a second GABRIEL. Whenever Adrien DARES to be emotional (often as Chat Noir) she cannot handle it, but when he's a submissive people pleaser who pushes down his own needs for hers, he becomes the ideal partner that she would rather keep.

It's why I'm weird about their love story because I don't count it as one. I think they aren't fit to be together even when the whole show tries to shove it down my throat.

As far as the first few seasons are concerned, Adrien loves Ladybug because she is someone who values and supports him unconditionally. When he goes out as Chat Noir, he is playing a character made of everything he is not allowed to express in his daily life because of his father. And Ladybug accepts these less than perfect traits, she encourages and uplifts him and she cares for him unconditionally. And yeah, he does project his relationship with his father onto their relationship as well, but Ladynoir is largely about breaking his misconception about needing to earn others' love and is about Adrien realizing that he deserves unconditional love. Ladybug's role is essentially to be the antithesis of Gabriel, and that's largely how it was portrayed in Seasons 1-3.

The whole problem started in Season 4, when Ladybug started to behave like Gabriel, by lying, keeping secrets, and manipulating Adrien, essentially pushing him away and not considering him before making decisions that affect him. Honestly, you've said it so well yourself here:

Marinette basically became a second GABRIEL. Whenever Adrien DARES to be emotional (often as Chat Noir) she cannot handle it, but when he's a submissive people pleaser who pushes down his own needs for hers, he becomes the ideal partner that she would rather keep.

And despite this, they keep trying to tell us that Adrien and Marinette are so perfect for each other. Sorry, I don't see it anymore.

Thank you for your ask!

[generalluxun]

What do you think would happen if Chloe & Adrien had been raised by the others parents given their presumed base temperaments and trauma response?

I always figure that Adrien would still be a conflict averse people pleaser because his dads negligent and his mother is awful, and so would likely get easily taken advantage of by 'friends' in a bid for approval.

Meanwhile I figure Chloe & Gabriel might see eye to eye-at when both are in a cold elitist mood, but that Chloe's penchant to fall into fight instincts means their relationship is vastly more confrontational with her going to extremes to force some degree acquiescence.

Ohhh this is trickier than at first blush, because fight/flight is also a learned response too.

Chloé had to act out to get attention and was rewarded for doing so, reinforcing 'fight'

Adrien's a weird case because Emilie existed but we often overlook her because she seems to have had no impact? Adrien acts like his current life is 'normal'.

We can try to extrapolate some though to a family life where Adrien had all his needs preemptively handled (a doting Emilie) and the only conflict came when he crossed his father. Gabriel's stern no-discussion methods taught Adrien that 'flight' was the only option.

If you just swapped them from birth there is no reason to believe Chloé wouldn't become a sweet porcelain princess in a gilded cage, or Adrien wouldn't become a tyrannical brat.

If we go for the spirit of your ask though and imagine a scenario where they both develop their initial responses then are thrust into the other world...

I feel like Chloé would develop a mixture of actual competitive spirit yet disdain for accomplishment. Winning the class election? Awesome. *Being* the class president? Meaningless. Gabriel gives approval for concrete accomplishment but always in a 'what have you done lately?' way. Each success is simply a standard the minute it is accomplished and tomorrow requires more. There is no gloating from this Chloé, or backstabbing, there is a fight on *everything* though. Every moment, every subject, it is always a battle to be won. As soon as it is won, it is the next thing.

Adrien would retreat deeper into fantasy I think. Neglected like Chloé he would simply recreate the love he once had in the emptiness of his new life. Toys/clothes/things, he would have tons of them just to ise as props. He could be anyone, be anywhere, be anything, just to be someone who was loved again. With friends he would be something of a show off on the surface too, but that would be trying to invite/pull people into his world. Even a fantasy can be lonely.

Hope this answered the question?

[rainbow-arrow]

Something people miss with lukadrien: bonding over daddy issues.

okay yes literally this. I love love love playing with this idea in fics bc they really are such mama's boys it's really funny (also why I fully support Adrien being informally adopted by the Couffaine's so he gets a mom figure back).

They both have such valid reasons to hate their dads. Each were either previously or currently protected by a lie (Anarka not telling Luka, and now Marinette keeping Gabriel's identity a secret), but both Jagged and Gabriel were. not great. Jagged knew the whole time, and well, Gabriel's list is long but mostly he's neglectful and really doesn't care about Adrien, despite saying he does.

There's such bonding potential in the sense they have very different relationships to their dads, but they're both, boiled down, to bad.

Unfortunately as much good as I think it would do for him, I don't think Adrien will ever say he hates his father on the basis that he's his father; we saw his reaction to cataclysm-ing Monarch. But fuck I think Luka should say it for him fjdsklafsa.

I also feel like Luka's response to Jagged in canon was...not accurate to his character? (which I hate saying about canon, but they did make him a twin four seasons in) It is important to consider that yeah, he admires Jagged's music, but he really, realistically, especially with Jagged's reaction to Juleka, should've been more upset. This boy got akumatized over the truth TWICE. For Luka to find out that Jagged KNEW, and they'd interacted multiple times throughout the show before that moment, you'd expected any kind of reaction.

LIKE LISTEN. I love love love Lukadrien bc they're both such people pleasers in such uniquely different ways. With Luka (I say this with all the love in my heart) being so fucking enabling if he likes someone he will let them do wHATEVER (see: whatever the fuck he had with Marinette, and Ephemeral). And then Adrien doing whatever anyone and everyone wanted him to do (see: literally his entire existence, and Wishmaker). It places their dynamic on such a 'what do you want' type care is such an hnnnnn. sO good my fAVORITE.

Luka has every. right. to be upset at Jagged Stone. Adrien has every. right. to be upset at Gabriel Agreste. And they have every. right. to bond over this.

Sorry for the TedTalk, in my defense, I did cut like five paragraphs, but I have four fics to update and so much lukadrien passion

[anna-scribbles]

hey hey anna zo @zodoods back again after reading thirteen i am dumping my thoughts at you because wow idk where else to put them

if i had to describe thirteen as a feeling it would be like a pit in your stomach of nerves and grief and man the sick feeling i had while i read every one of adrien's interactions with emilie and gabriel...you are such a remarkable author truly

scenes that will rotate in my mind forever and ever:

adrien waiting till his mum is in a good mood to ask if he can go to school, immediately pulling back when he senses that he's displeasing her...i think this "people pleaser" behaviour is just so adrien agreste (as a child) that theres this real stark contrast to the 'present' bits where he's talking to marinette and he's not as afraid to displease her in the same sense??

gabriel pushing his son into modelling..the way he was so uncomfortable at the way he was being portrayed,,it really broke my heart like the lengths adrien goes through to please his parents

plagg putting sticky notes on things (being adrien's shoulder to lean on . as he should)

i need to sit on this chapter a bit like i need to let it rise in the oven that is my mind i need to open it like im opening a dusty box in the attic and brush away the dust its just it made me feel a lot and i think thats just a testament to this fic as a whole!!! cant wait for the next chapter <3

HIIIIII ZO IM ANSWERING THIS SO LATE BUT IVE BEEN THINKING AND SMILING ABOUT IT EVER SINCE YOU SENT IT<3333

oh that comparison between how young adrien's interactions with emilie are so fear-based still even though he loves her vs now-adrien isn't afraid of marinette oh im gonna cry so hard!!! yes you get it!!!!!

AUGH yyeah honestly while prepping to write this fic I did some digging into stories of child actors/stars and things they felt like they had to do and how it impacted them and I really wanted to get that discomfort and loss of autonomy across there

thank you SO much i love plagg and his sticky notes he's a menace and also my best friend<3

thank you thank you for reading and for such a sweet ask!!! ahh im gonna treasure it in my heart forever!

[flightfoot]

Sorry for not being clear about "dragging Adrien to the bottom of the pit", it's actually come from one of Adrien salter in twt who years ago said "Adrien isn't fit to be Marinette' boyfriend because he has a lot of mental health issue and will be dragging her down" as in make her stressed more than she already is to the point of depression.

But the fact that Adrien still somewhat stable despite battling with depression longer than Marinette make me think that she'll be the one who dragged Adrien down even further than his current mental health.

Although it just me projecting what happened to my friend who was in a relationship similar state to Adrienette. Her bf was a control freak and she was a people pleaser and the more her bf get stressed the worsen his control freakiness and it make her felt like she was not worth his love because "my love isn't enough to help him" which result on her doing self harm because she's unworthy, and I hate that.

Ugh, I remember that take. It was mostly to argue that Luka should be Marinette's boyfriend instead, since he had no issues and could just happily receive all of Marinette's emotional trauma without her having to deal with any from him, which I mean... by that logic, either Marinette shouldn't be able to date Luka either because of her own emotional baggage, or Luka should date Adrien and take care of his emotional baggage instead, since he has more of it.

And yeah Marinette tends to have more trouble coping from an outward perspective than Adrien. Adrien's actually remarkably well-adjusted, given what he's been through, and when he breaks down, he tends to be more self-destructive than actually causing problems for others. Marinette, meanwhile, tends to be far more obvious when she's having difficulties, which means she gets help a lot more quickly and easily and a lot more tailored to her issues than Adrien, who just bottles things up.

[youremarvelous]

it is wild to sit back and think...adrien's mental abuse has made him a people pleaser, someone who puts others' needs before his own, someone whose entire worth is wrapped up in his ability to mold his existence into whatever will make the people around him happy, even at the expense of his own happiness and wellbeing.

and marinette actively benefits from that behavior by having a partner she can push around and a love interest she can stalk without fear of retaliation. a dynamic that the writing should scrutinize, but instead chooses to justify through retconned trauma and making chat noir all but useless in battle.

and then they expect the audience to root for them as a couple....hoo boy.

[princess-of-the-corner]

Senti-Adrien

Actually, you know what? I’m not done being salty about this and the ask has a character limit.

I LOVE “character finds out they were X, but become their own person”. I ADORE it. Hunter from Owl House was already one of my favourites, but the moment we found out about Grimwalkers, he shot straight to the top of my list. I LIVE for that shit. Give me the struggle. Give me the angst. Give me the rock bottom moment of thinking they’re “nothing”, and their friends rallying around them. Give me the shock from the creators - “It isn’t possible!”, “You’re just a puppet!”, “I made you!” - as they break out their programming/abuse/misconceptions and become their own person. Give me the sweet triumph of flipping their tormentors the middle finger, surrounded by their found family, confident in the knowledge that they are alive and real. Adrien as a Sentimonster, even if they only thought of it Season 3, could have been SO GOOD, and they SCREWED IT UP! You know how you could have made it good?? You know how you could have kept it going??

We only meet Adrien after he’s already begun to change.

Make the implication that going to school, forging his father’s signature, all of that, wasn’t Adrien’s idea, but Chloe’s. Sure, Adrien wanted to go, but make Chloe the brains behind getting him in school. Chloe is the one who figures it all out, plans the whole thing, and gets Adrien to agree. Sure, it doesn’t work. Sure, Adrien gets caught. He’s ordered back home, and he goes, like an obedient little drone. But then you know what happens?

He gets Plagg. He gets the Black Cat Miraculous. He becomes Chat Noir.

Right away, Adrien is gung-ho about being a superhero. He doesn’t even let Plagg finish EXPLAINING before jumping right into running around in a leather cat suit. And isn’t that weird, if Adrien is a Sentimonster? If he’s supposed to follow orders? Like, I’m not saying Gabriel ever gave him the specific instruction of “If you find magic jewelry, do not use it to become a costumed superhero”, but given how restricted Adrien is, I imagine there were some … strongly worded … advice, that Adrien has been given. “Don’t go out alone”. “Tell me what you’re doing”. “Stay safe”. And Adrien, raised (made) the way he is, such a people pleaser, unaware that he could (and should) be looking for loopholes, probably tries to follow those pleas(orders) to the letter and spirit. Like, he probably still feels stifled. He probably longs for freedom. But he stills obeys (it’s what he was made to do). But the moment, the second, he gets the Black Cat Miraculous, he’s leaping at the chance to do something he wants, something he’s longed for … and something he probably has orders against doing.

At first, this seems like bad writing, if Adrien is supposed to be a Sentimonster the whole time. But. What do we later find out the Black Cat’s power, Cataclysm - what does it do, to Sentimonsters? It cause them to go berserk. To lose coherency. To lash out. 

It destabilizes them. They stop obeying and start rampaging, because they are beings of pure emotion. They stop responding to orders, and start responding to the emotions they were made with.

Normally, most Sentimonsters just go nuts, because they are simple beings made from one emotion. Anger, fear, rage, joy, curiosity. They don’t have a lot of depth, so they respond to the one thing they do have, which often results in a single minded pursuit, and often destruction. But Adrien is different. Adrien isn’t just a Sentimonster. Adrien is a mix, Sentimonster and human. His parents used a Sentimonster to get Emilie pregnant, but they didn’t just have the baby pop out of nowhere. Emilie had a pregnancy. She went through the whole process, from conception to birth. Adrien wasn’t sprung up fully formed, he developed. He was born. He grew up. Yes, he’s a Sentimonster. Yes, he can be controlled. But whatever his emotional core was, that was used to make him, Adrien himself has developed, grown. He has far more emotions than another Sentimonster, because he’s had time to grow.

But he is still a Sentimonster. And that means he can be effected like one.

The moment Adrien is given the power of the Black Cat, immediately, his first act, is responding to his own strongest emotion - his desire for freedom. He becomes Chat Noir - submerging himself further in the Power of Destruction - and he takes off. And all throughout Origins, you see Adrien responding to situations emotionally. He rushes into fights, he jumps first, thinks later. He has one big moment of admiration for Ladybug, and decides then and there that whoever is behind the mask, he loves them. Heck, throughout the series, at least the very early stuff, Adrien is very emotionally driven. He does things, not because he thinks it’s a good idea, but because he feels it is. Best example is the Bubbler. Logically, it is a terrible idea for Adrien to let Nino stay Akumafied just so he can have a party. He should have ditched immediately to change into Chat Noir. But he doesn’t, because in his head it’s his first birthday party. Nino threw him a party. His friends are there. He’s going to have fun. Adrien feels happy. Appreciated. Loved. So he stays. He parties with the Bubbler. But then he sees others aren’t having fun. That they were forced there. Trapped. When Adrien finds out exactly what’s going on, he feels awful, and realizes how it’s effecting everyone else, and that’s when he ditches to become Chat Noir.

But Rachel, I hear some people thinking, you’re saying that despite all this, Adrien is still a Sentimonster. He can still be controlled. The Amok still affects him. Even if the Cat’s Power is effecting him, Eventually, wouldn’t Adrien become more unstable? Wouldn’t he go nuts?

Maybe, if he had the Black Cat and that was it. If all of this was taking place in a vacuum. But it’s not, is it? Because Chat Noir is fighting alongside Ladybug. The Creation to his Destruction. The strategist, the one who pulls him back, who balances him. Whose power fixes what his destroys. Who was there from day one, when he first put on the ring.

Because again, watching the first few seasons, that’s their whole dynamic. Chat is emotionally driven, Ladybug is the thinker, the strategist. When Chat wants to dive forward claws first, Ladybug hauls him back by the tail. Chat wants to confront the threat (the emotion) head on, but Ladybug makes him stop and think. And it even works in reverse! When Ladybug is overthinking, when she’s stuck in her head, Chat is there to pull her out of it - to destroy her doubts and get her to think clearly. The balance each other, change each other, and for Adrien in particular, the effect is more than just strategic thinking. It’s helping him grow past his programmed purpose.

It isn’t obvious, not at first, but Adrien becomes more thoughtful, less emotionally driven. He learns. He grows. He changes. Each Cataclysm and Miraculous Ladybug help it along, make it brighter, stronger. Adrien thinks. He plans. He finds loopholes. Hell, give me tha tiny shit! He slouches more. His hair isn’t as perfect. He gets freckles because he’s in the sun more. He stutters. He lies. He acts exactly like a sheltered rich kid breaking out for freedom, not an automaton meant to be perfect.

Make it gradual. Make it subtle. Give me Gabriel not noticing at first. Give me Nathalie not even thinking about it. Give me arguments with Chloe, because “You never used to act like this, Adri-kins!”. Give me flashbacks. Show Adrien as a strict rule follower. As a kid who wouldn’t dare think about sneaking out. Show how he’s changed, and in some cases more tellingly, how he hasn’t. Give me tiny, quiet moments where Gabe is reflecting on this. Give me the realization that Adrien is changing. He isn’t acting like a Sentimonster anymore. He’s acting like a person.

Give me the day he tries to command Adrien with the Amok … and Adrien refuses. Adrien says “No”. It isn’t easy. It’s the hardest thing Adrien has ever done. But he does it. He plants his feet, squares his shoulders, and defies the thing he was made to do. He makes his choice, his own choice, asserts himself as his own being. He is real. He is alive. He is a person.

Give me the Amok Fucking Shattering because the Sentimonster it was made to control is gone. Adrien Agreste is real, and nothing will control him anymore.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHERE I THOUGHT THEY WERE GOING WITH THIS!?!?

-

YEAH NO THAT WOULD’VE BEEN FANTASTIC ACTUALLY

[glitterpensupremacy]

Time for the problematic Queen!

Chloe MTS

As usual:

1. General Info

2. Personality

3. Key Relationships

4. Character Growth

Edit: I’m so sorry guys I forgot the “read more” 😭

1. General Info

It’s probably pretty obvious by now, but this will be a Chloe-demption Miraculous story. I don’t blame people who don’t really like that or her in general, but that’s the story you’re gonna get here. (Granted, this Chloe will be a bit easier to make a better person than the original, for reasons I’ll go over soon.)

2. Personality

Chloe Bourgeois seems like the typical rich girl: self-centered, superficial, vain, spoiled, not very good at listening to others, melodramatic, mostly mean to other people, and used to getting what she wants.

That being said, there’s a bit more to her than that. Her lack of self control and immaturity is mainly the result of having a father who would hand her whatever she wanted to keep her busy. Similarly, her mother is only interested in the “exceptional”, so Chloe often strives to be more like her. The fact that neither parent really tried to raise her is why she’s so infantile and prone to ridiculing others to feel better about herself.

A different side of Chloe tends to come out around her loved ones. She’s somewhat overbearing and clingy, but will shower those close to her (especially family) in gifts, pet names, and affection. Compared to OG Chloe, (and most other fan made takes on her), she’s a lot softer and more naive (dare I say a little cute). Every once in a while she lets the confident facade drop, becoming quieter and being genuine about how she feels.

3. Key Relationships

Marinette: As I’ve mentioned in the Marinette MTS post, Chloe and Marinette have a friends-to-enemies storyline in the first season. Basically, Chloe’s constant need for attention and favors was too emotionally draining for Marinette, so she broke things off between them, which Chloe does not take well. At all. After spending the larger part of season two trying to antagonize her, Chloe finally understands why Marinette left and leaves her alone. Things are still pretty tense between them, but they can exist in the same room without blowing up (and if Chloe sometimes still misses her ex-best friend? Well she doesn’t! Don’t be ridiculous, utterly ridiculous!!!)

Adrien: Chloe and Adrien are also childhood friends, (only they’ve known each other practically since birth while Marinette and Chloe met in their early school years) with Chloe actually being the one to introduce the two. At first, Chloe’s glad that her precious “Mari-roon” and “Adrikins” are getting along; when he decides to keep being Marinette’s friend after she stops hanging out with Chloe, she’s a little less enthused. Adrien also plays a more active role in helping Chloe become a better person, as he’s one of the people with the most knowledge of why she is the way that she is, as well as her better qualities (that and Chloe is determined not to lose him like she lost Marinette, even if she isn’t consciously aware of this yet). It also probably goes without saying that her feelings for Adrien aren’t ever really romantic like in the OG show.

Zoe: Chloe adores her darling baby sister, and tends to bring her wherever she goes. She initially tries to help her younger sister understand how the world issupposed” to work, but when that backfires (due to that pesky traitor Dupain-Cheng and her new friends) she has to remain content with simply showing Zoe off and doing what she can to help her sister succeed in her ambitions. (Due to being more of a people and family pleaser, Zoe doesn’t really do much in Chloe’s redemption, but she is one of the characters who can occasionally get her to play nice.)

Alya: These two don’t really know each other very well at first. To Chloe, Alya’s just the blogger girl who doesn’t properly appreciate the perfect Ladybug! When they interact more often due to being in the same class, things aren’t much better, seeing as their opposite ideals and personalities clash (hardworking vs lazy, integrity vs self-indulgence, etc). They do have to team up against a common enemy though (that being Lila), as well as share the struggles of being the only two superheroes with public identities. By the end of season two, Chloe and Alya become hero partners. (Despite sometimes being annoyed at what a “goody two shoes” Rena can be, Queen Bee can admit that she’s pretty smart, and secretly considers her to be a better hero than she is.)

Other key dynamics include: her parents, Ladybug (and Chat Noir to an extent), Kim, and Sabrina.

4. Character Growth

A lot of Chloe’s development is about learning to care about others and not resort to making other people’s lives more difficult just because she’s unhappy about something. This is mainly through how she interacts with acquaintances (not being as insulting or harming the rest of the class through her schemes) and her friends (learning how to be a good friend is a major part of her character arc). Another aspect of this how she matures.

MTS Chloe’s stunted growth is generally attributed to the lack of involvement that both parents have had throughout her childhood. While she doesn’t completely grow up (which makes sense, seeing as she is still very much a child), she does learn to occasionally think things through beyond the obvious and take certain issues more seriously.

Her familial relationships also factor into this development. She both grows in relation to her family (trying to be a good big sister for Zoe and eventually realizing that Audrey is a terrible mother/person and standing up to her), and inspiring them to change as well (seeing Chloe work to improve herself is one of the motivations for Zoe wanting to be more honest with others, Andre also acknowledges that he’s been a selfish and irresponsible father and works to become a better parent for Chloe and Zoe).

Conclusion

Alright, that’s the general rundown for Chloe. The more whimsical vibes that she has might be a bit disappointing for people who prefer a tougher, sassier mean girl type of Chloe, but hopefully she’s still likable in her own regard.

Up next will be Alya (who will also have an akuma design posted around the same time I have her character notes ready, so keep your eyes peeled if that kinda thing interests you)

[bittersweetresilience]

Thinking about “Apetite of a people-pleaser” by Ghost in the context of Senti-twins..

“Ideas forming out of thin air” <The peacock and its creation of sentimonsters

“I know I'm subservient but all of this is necessary” <Adrien “Sometimes my appetite is violently contrary” <Felix

“Whether I've been caramelized or rotten to the core Which one should I be?” <The whole hero-villain thing those two got going on

And just a whoolleee lot more, these were just the most obvious ones. It’s just such a them song for me.

OMG you're so right anon i am kissing the back of your hand tenderly. caramelized or rotten to the core... identity issues... adrien forced to be a people pleaser agreste... you get it...

émotion félix to me

PATTE DE VELOURS TO MEEEEEEEEEEEE

[adrinoir]

Headcanon: Adrien Agreste is Trans? (Part 4)

I absolutely love writing about this headcanon. Feel free to read my other sections of the trans headcanon: part one, part two, and part three.

Usual disclaimer: this is just for fun! Obviously cis boys can have these same qualities and traits. Don’t take it too seriously. These are all just things I’ve noticed. Also please keep in mind I haven't watched anything beyond Kwami's Choice: part 1 when I'm writing and posting this (so, I'm using what I currently know).

The incredibly strong dislike of modeling

This relates back to part one where I talked about Adrien’s discomfort in being a model. I had mentioned modeling is all about body - your face and body being everywhere, having to pose in front of a camera all the time, having to walk down the runway. There's a lot of visible discomfort we see in Adrien whenever he has to model.

Anyhow, what I want to add is that this discomfort never eased up for him despite the many, many years he had to model. He was extremely adamant about quitting. Obviously, modeling is a very stressful job as is, especially with the amount of gigs and events to attend and the insane fans who want to know where he's at, plus he said he just wants to be treated as a son by his dad. However, having gender dysphoria is something that can really be heightening this discomfort and desire to quit.

I feel like there are a lot of people out there who would desire to live this lavish lifestyle of being a model, but Adrien can't stand it. So therein lies the question: aside from the normal stress, what is heightening his strong dislike for this job? It could also be the fact that it's keeping him from getting to try out new things he'd enjoy doing, but also consider that his father controls his life as a whole, it isn't just his modeling position getting in the way. And, as I've previously said, there's a lot of visible discomfort, which could easily be what's making him dislike modeling even more.

Additionally, Adrien's face is now not only plastered on billboards, but on almost everyone's Alliance ring. Gabriel scanned Adrien's entire body and created this AI version of him to relieve him of his modeling duties. However, Adrien is still uneasy and doesn't like seeing his face and voice on just about everyone's device (if they have him as their option and not Lila). Yes, it's obviously weird for him to see a fake version of himself saying things he never recorded. But, 1) his face has been all over Paris for years (MASSIVE photos of him), and 2) this should not be incredibly shocking behavior for Gabriel Agreste. So, is there some dysphoric discomfort here, too? Possibly. I know it's a stretch, but it's definitely a small piece to take into consideration.

He often lets people perceive him how they want to

I had also mentioned in part two that he's a people pleaser and melds himself to be who other people want him to be. I want to add, he also lets people define who he is instead of trying real hard to correct them; he lets them think what they want of him.

A good example of this is in Lies when Kagami is trying to draw Adrien. He tries to pose as a cat to try and vaguely show his Cat Noir side; to be silly. But, Kagami doesn't believe this. He even promises her that this is who he really is, that being silly is part of who he truly is. However, Kagami pushes him against a wall, stares directly into his eyes, and says he’s perfect and, "There. This is really you." To which he answers, "Do you really think...?" and just lets Kagami kiss him. Yes, Kagami was being a bit forceful (like, oof. She shouldn't have done that). But, Adrien didn't try to tell her she's wrong. He let Kagami perceive him in her own way.

Why doesn't he correct her? It could be because he wouldn't want people knowing he's trans. It’s a very scary thing. You don’t know how the people who claim they love you will react. Letting them think what they want to doesn’t raise suspicion that he’s hiding something, and clearly his effort on trying to open up to her more didn’t even work in the first place.

You could say he acts like "being silly" is such a big, important part of him that he feel must be hidden at all costs, because it seems that he thinks that him being silly and telling puns would possibly give away that he's Cat Noir. BUT him posing that way for Kagami and him telling cat jokes in the middle of class (in Ephemeral) proves that notion wrong.

One could say he also doesn't want people to know he's dealing with a bad home life, but it's been common knowledge from the start that he has a controlling father. Nino has come up with plans on multiple occasions to free him from his father so they can hang out together. Kagami's mother and Gabriel are friends. It's how Adrien and her met, and Kagami makes it very well known that she's aware of how controlling Gabriel is.

In Elation - one of the most recent episodes - he mentions to Marinette that his fans "wouldn't be such big fans if they knew who was really behind the mask". So, even now, he still feels the need to hide his truer self and that he wouldn't be liked for who he truly is. But, let's think about this for a moment. He has fans both as Adrien and as Cat Noir. He has friends who know his situation and care about him. So then…what is being left out that he feels people won’t like about him? THAT brings us to the next point.

Why does he think people wouldn’t like him?

With all that being said (in the last section), there’s no exact, definable reason as to why Adrien says people wouldn’t like the real him. So, this could mean Adrien is hiding something we as the audience can’t even see.

It’s obvious Adrien has underlying insecurities. But, it seems there’s more than just those insecurities, and this could be him possibly being trans and internally struggling with that gender dysphoria.

People like what they see in Cat Noir - his silly puns and kind heart. People like what they see in Adrien - his kindness and friendliness. So, why will it be problematic once people know they’re the same person? There’s no solid reason.

I had mentioned in my other parts of this headcanon that he’s very closed off which can be pretty common amongst closeted trans people. Adrien thinking people won’t like who he truly is without any definable reason could contribute to that. He doesn’t want people to know he’s trans because he feels they’d think very differently of him and may not like him.

Think about how quickly he believed Marinette in Elation when she said she liked Adrien but doesn’t anymore. It shows that sign of insecurity and dislike for himself. When the girl he likes shows so many signs that she like him throughout the entire show but denies that, he doesn’t believe her. It’s really sad.

The closeness with his mom

So, we aren’t given much background on Emilie, but one thing we do see is that she’s closer to Adrien than Gabriel is. However, what makes them close? We’re never given a reason.

There’s that possibility she’s manipulative like Gabriel but in a different sense, one that makes Adrien like her despite being abusive. But, of course there’s the possibility that she isn’t, which makes her the better parent.

So, if it were true that she never abused Adrien, that leaves the question: what makes them close?

Hypothetically, if my headcanon was actually canon, she could be the one parent who supports Adrien being trans. That reason alone would make them closer, but could also be just one reason amongst many others.

The headcanon still works if I flip it

What if instead of Adrien being a trans guy who already transitioned, he’s a trans girl who hasn’t transitioned yet? I know that might sound like a massive stretch, but I’ve heard this headcanon from other fans and there’s some good back up for this, too.

We all know Gabriel is a very abusive father. We all know Adrien’s childhood dreams were nonexistent because was forced to be who his parents wanted him to be (or he’s forcing himself to please them). What if this is because they don’t support Adrien when he told him he felt like a girl? That’d mean he’s forced to continue living as a boy to please his parents, because his parents don’t accept the fact that he’s trans.

And modeling? That discomfort in having to show the body he has this disconnect from the body he was born in but still has to have pictures taken of all the time.

And him overcompensating his masculinity as Cat Noir? Trans people who are still questioning or don’t have a choice to transition can overcompensate to try being comfortable in the body they were born into. For example, a trans guy who can’t transition might try to be a very feminine girl (makeup, dressed, etc) or a trans girl who can’t transition might try to be a very masculine guy (get real muscular, grow out their facial hair, etc).

Just about every reason I’ve listed in all parts of this headcanon work just the same if Adrien was supposedly a closeted trans girl which makes this headcanon even more interesting imo.

Also, we do see him shirtless in Mr. Pigeon 72 which some people say debunks this whole headcanon that he’s a trans guy. BUT, this isn’t necessarily true. 1) Puberty blockers exist 2) it supports the flipped version.

This flipped headcanon would also be extremely sad if it is true that Adrien is a sentibeing. The ability to change Adrien to be the gender he connects with would be possible, but his parents chose not to recreate another version of him for their own sake. Or, they did possibly try but it’s what ended up wrecking the peacock miraculous, which might’ve made them feel some hostility towards Adrien.

There’s other characters in the show that are canonically queer

There’s absolutely no denying that there are queer characters in the show. Even though it’s not directly stated that Juleka and Rose are dating and that Nathaniel and Marc are dating, it’s made very clear that they are just based on their interactions.

I also heard Marc is based on one of the staff’s gender fluid friends, which is really cool! That’s direct queer representation that they clarified outside the show.

If you know anything about Disney, you’ll know there’s some homophobia and transphobia around the company. For instance, I also watch The Owl House where the main character Luz is openly bi and Amity is openly lesbian. They end up crushing on each other and dating. They directly state in the show that they’re girlfriends, show Luz coming out to her mom as bi, and have scenes of Luz and Amity kissing. There’s also Raine who’s an openly non-binary character - they directly refer to Raine with they/them pronouns. Their VA is also non-binary. And what does Disney do, despite how incredibly successful this show is? They wouldn’t let the creator renew it.

So, other Disney shows such as Miraculous and Star vs the Forces of Evil show queer characters without directly saying that they are. People might refer to that as queer baiting, but with Disney’s proof of being homophobic and transphobic, I can understand why these shows wouldn’t directly say what these characters’ sexualities and identities are.

Anyhow, considering how they massively hint at Rose and Juleka being girlfriends and Marc and Nathaniel being boyfriends, there’s that possibility that other characters in the show are queer, too. That’s why I and many other fans of the show can easily create these queer headcanons for many of the characters. There’s a lot of signs in the show.

[redtippedfox]

WARNING: Blood, and Eyesore colors are below

The Insanity of the Miraculous Guardian

“Even a Worm will Turn”

So Marinette in this AU has been through hell and back. She’s still a sweet person to those who are deserving of her kindness and her love but to those that she hates and doesn’t like…well unlike 13 year old Marinette who always apologized for being blamed and framed for things she didn’t do older Marinette has learned that its okay to stand up for yourself and not take any bullshit from people.

That doesn’t mean that she is cruel! She’ll still bless people who deserve it, make stuff for people who she loves, be kind to Akuma victims and others.

But Paris doesn’t realize that Ladybug is only being merciful to their cruelness and that their hero could be their worst nightmare.

When she is kicked out by her parents or even called the bully of the school she’s okay with it, she’s the so-called Villainess of Paris. Ironic, and yet hilarious.

When she finally snaps Monarch was the first to go, all Monarchs of the past were beheaded so Marinette followed her ancestors lead..unfortunately Argos got away from her before she could finish the job.

She’s gonna take back everything she’s lost.

———————————————————————-

“You know what they say Monarch…La Viva Revolution…or in other words…off with your head!”

————————————————————-

Okay so to clarify, Marinette isn’t always mean or cruel, she isn’t like teenager Chloe. She’s still Marinette it’s only when she is threatened or being treated cruelly that she’ll stick up for herself, she’s not a pushover. She has never shown Adrien this side of her nor any of her friends. Chat Noir knows that Ladybug can be cruel sometimes but he has never seen her go all out. There will be certain parts in the story where Marinette acts cruel and mean but they are very short and the only reason people will see her as a villain is because no one has ever seen shy Marinette act that way, it certainly will be a shock to the people of Paris when they see just how much bullshit younger Marinette has dealt with, from her own friends calling her a clutz to being bullied, it’s no wonder she learned to bite back.

People don’t usually like it when people pleasers start to fight back. That doesn’t mean she is Morally Gray she’s just finally standing up for herself unlike 13 year old Marinette.

She’s a badass woman who takes no shit from anyone and she’ll bite back if you try anything

She’s no villain…she’s just stopped being a people pleaser who gets pushed over.

[cassiekayscreams]

Jeckyll and Hyde Miraculous AU

Miraculous has come up again in my hyperfixation cycle, so I’ve decided to revive an old concept I never had the time or energy to do anything with. In fact, I’ll probably just drop this and then disappear into obscurity again. I love the idea of the civilians and superheroes actually being different people - sort of a Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde situation. (More directly inspired by Jackson Jekyll and Holt Hyde from Monster High; I never read the original Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde so I don’t know how much of an accurate representation it is.) So instead of the miraculous holder having a Kwami that transforms them into a superhero, the miraculous basically allows the superhero person to “possess”? the person. The holder and superhero share a body, though the appearance transforms when the superhero “takes over.” The holder/host is completely unaware that they are the superheroes/that the superheroes are inhabiting their same body, other than they black out for extended periods of time and come to in different places or situations than they last remember. The heroes, meanwhile, are aware enough that they are inhabiting another person’s body and they’re aware enough of their lives to know things they need to know to protect their identities - where they live and go to school, who their family is, etc. But they don’t share memories with the host so they don’t feel the same way about people. They’re their own separate person with their own separate ideas, relationships, and personalities.

Key Differences from Canon Rather than “miraculous holders” being chosen based on their own personality traits (ie Marinette and Adrien both showed kindness and self-sacrifice in helping Fu), it’s based on if their auras are comparable with and can sustain the miraculous. No kwamis Since holders/hosts don’t really realize they’re the superheroes/villains (am gonna have to come up with a name for this persona/form of them), the miraculous can’t be misused in the sense that the person chooses to use it for evil. Instead, the miraculous itself, and thus the “possessor”, is corrupted and evil. The holder/host may even be a good person and not realize their alter ego is evil. Opposite can be true with heroes, as well.

Marinette

Characteristics -Anxious overthinker -Clumsy -Hard time standing up for herself but will absolutely stand up for others, especially her friends -Chronic people pleaser -Very sweet but has a hard time making friends (comes off as shy; is kind of wary of opening up to others) Differences from Canon -Instead of her improved confidence coming from her being Ladybug and also support from Tikki, it’s from her new friends (namely Alya) -No Tikki to help keep her from spiraling

Ladybug

Characteristics -Fairly serious/no-nonsense -Very focused -Excellent strategist -Civically minded -Major sweet tooth Differences from Canon -Opinions of others not colored by Marinette’s relationships with them (no favoritism to the Ladyblog due to Alya being Marinette’s friend, no crush on Adrien from knowing him at school) -Since Mari is unaware she is Ladybug, Ladybug can’t be used to solve Marinette problems (swinging across town when running late, checking on Adrien, telling Lila off) -Ladybug eats a bunch of sweets instead of Tikki

Adrien

Characteristics -Chronic people pleaser -Lonely and isolated -Sheltered sunshine child that’s secretly depressed (neglect’ll do that to ya) -Longs for acceptance, friendship, and love -His father still forced him to be a model, but on his own, he’s actually quite the bookworm/nerd due to using books, video games, and shows/movies for escapism -Totally geeks out over there being real life superheroes, which gives his slight crush on Ladybug Differences from Canon -Doesn’t get the benefits of escape/freedom as Chat Noir -Hasn’t interacted with Ladybug as Chat Noir and doesn’t know about what she’s like in person, so his crush on her is really just a celebrity crush -Not a sentimonster cuz I don’t wanna deal with that nonsense

Chat Noir

Characteristics -Chaos gremlin -Somewhat feral and unhinged -Genuinely a Good Boy but comes off off-putting -Public probably wouldn’t like him if not for Ladybug -Easily distracted -I Do What I Want -Sneaky -Cat -Loves cheese, esp Camembert Differences from Canon -Opinions of others not colored by Adrien’s relationships with them -Doesn’t have all of the trauma that comes along with being Adrien -Chat Noir eats the Camembert instead of Plagg

[generalluxun]

I mentioned this elsewhere but its kind of fascinating that the writers seemed to try and do a "Spoiled Sweet VS Spoiled Rotten" thing with Adrien & Chloe but ended up more with:

Emotionally abused and neglected into being a people pleaser (Fawn) with occasionally bursts of (Fight) along side, emotionally abused and neglected into imitating your abuser (Fight) with occasionally bursts of (Fawn)

Agreed. Adrien is the classical 'good victim' being all sad and meek most of the time. Chloe is the 'brat' who acts out to try and relieve her pain.

[ilikekidsshows]

The thing I don't like from the senti theory that been going around lately in the fandom is that some people like to simplified and reduce Adrien's reaction and act simply because Gabriel create him that way. Adrien having trouble to express his anger? Oh it's because he's created that way. Adrien is a people pleaser? Yeah that's because Gabriel create him that way. Adrien can't talk back to his father? Gabriel made him can't do it by twisting his ring! Gabriel commanded Adrien and he comply? That's because Gabriel has his amok! They agree that Adrien is abused but most of them also agree that Adrien's inability to fight back Gabriel command is solely because of the amok not a trauma respond or at least mostly the former.

I'm a firm believer that senti Adrien is a big bullshit because if Gabriel has that power to control Adrien 24/7 then he would do it without hesitation, he won't need to wait until Adrien show a sign of rebelling to use it. He would do it every fucking single time! This is Gabriel, the same person who mock Ladybug and Cat Noir for getting sentimental over a sentimonster after all.

If I have a power that could control my son-puppet emotion, feeling and action, I wouldn't bother to manipulate-gaslight him. It's a waste of time and energy. He doesn't like the pancake I made? Twist the amok and he would eat it without protest. No effort needed. Unless this is the whole Even Evil Has Standard but I doubt it is.

This is another case of the Senti Stans being completely unaware of the implications of the things they’re saying. Like, they do not mean to imply the things they imply, you’ll see this in how genuinely angry and defensive they get every time someone points out said implications. This doesn’t change the fact that almost every single time a new defense of SentiAdrien shows up, it does indeed imply some stuff that really grinds people’s gears.

Because, here’s the thing; chalking up Adrien’s trauma responses as being a result of him being a Sentimonster is literally saying that he acts the way he does because he is not human. This idea that his Sentimonster programming informs his behavior is the same thing as saying that these actions make more sense if he’s not human. Said actions being trauma responses creates the implication that people who act like they’ve been traumatized act in unreasonable, weird or inhuman ways. It’s literally othering trauma victims as something other than a “normal” human.

This is why people who are against the SentiAdrien concept say that the concept makes light of Adrien’s story being an abuse story. The Stans can claim until they’re blue in the face that they still view Adrien’s abuse as abuse, but everything else they say creates implications that ring as the opposite, especially when they say that him being a Sentimonster would “explain” his or Gabriel’s behavior, when nothing about their situation is different from a real life abusive relationship.

If something already happens in the real world, unless the fictional universe is changing its mechanics, it requires no fantastical explanation. In the world of Equestria, seasons don't pass naturally, so the ponies need to pull off a Winter Wrap-up to change winter to spring. The only reason Gabriel's abuse and Adrien's responses to it would need to be explained is if neither existed naturally in the world of Miraculous. And, since Miraculous seems to be functioning similarly to our world when it comes to family stuff, that would be like the show was denying the actual existence of abusive families, especially if all the rich/abused kids are Sentimonsters, which is the popular current take on the concept.

In a fandom where people still vilify Adrien for his trauma responses, let’s not give the hatedom even more reasons to demonize him by saying him being a Sentimonster explains jack shit. It just gives people who don’t sympathize or empathize with trauma victims a free pass.

Here’s the thing about Gabriel’s characterization in a SentiAdrien situation: it doesn’t work no matter how you spin it. No matter what he’ll come out of it with inconsistent characterization and his behavior not making sense.

Option one is that Gabriel doesn’t care about Adrien and doesn’t care about Sentimonsters. That means that he would be using the Amok constantly to get out of dealing with Adrien wanting different things than he does, but he doesn’t do that so it’s inconsistent.

Option two is that Gabriel loves Adrien and therefore doesn’t want to control him. Then why is he okay with other people keeping hold of his son’s essence when he couldn’t trust them to begin with (Félix) or is learning he can’t trust them anymore (Nathalie)? It still doesn't make sense.

Either way we spin Gabriel’s relationship to his remote-control robot son, it just doesn’t work. Even if we go back by about a year back to the third option of Gabriel not knowing Adrien is a Sentimonster, that would just make all the Sentimonster “foreshadowing” nonsense.

[celestiall0tus]

Paradise - For Every Miracle, a Price

I have a little more information for Paradise. This will be... interesting. It will have quite the dark undertones as well as tragic circumstances for a good number of the characters. These circumstances will have been brought on by unfortunate events, mental and emotional health, etc. As such, major CWs for this work in the future. With that said, you've been warned as I dive into these certain characters:

Adrien Agreste - The catalyst for the villains' actions. Adrien was a miracle child, but a sickly one. His health deteriorated over the years and is in the worst state he's been at 17. With no cure for his mysterious ailment, he is estimated to live for just one more year.

Marinette Dupain Cheng - A victim of unfortunate circumstance. She was in a nasty car accident as a young teen. It killed her parents and nearly took her own life. Through a miracle, she survived, but lost a lot. Her family, her voice, dreams of a normal life. Her body and mind weakened by the crash that makes life a little bit harder.

Couffaine Twins - Both twins had been spiraling for their entire lives, causing and getting into trouble, recklessness, among other things. This an effect of their environment as they grew up with a mother that, despite trying to provide for them, wasn't as around and neither was their father, who was completely absent.

Alix Kubdel - An LGBT teen that has been very dark places mentally and emotionally. She attempts to be the golden child, excelling in every task before her, aside from one that she hasn't failed to notice. To follow in her parent's and brother's own paths of happiness, she tries to find a partner, but no matter what she does, there's nothing deeper than friendship. She forces herself to put on a show until it broke her.

Rose Lavillant - A girl always abandoned and betrayed by those that she loved. This has led to her becoming a people pleaser, always eager to make everyone happy and keep them in her life, even at the expense of her own health and well-being. She keeps people at arm's length to avoid rejection and being hurt, save for those she is codependent with and often controls them, or tries to.