#Do you really believe that it makes sense for the story to force Sonic to choose green hill or the shatterverse after all that time spent

[hadesknockedupintheunderworld]

No one:

Some random person, every week since July: Has anyone done this yet? *posts meme redraw of Shadow breaking it to Sonic that they’re gonna have to kill Nine and Sonic going "Damn😔"*

[thankskenpenders]

Amy's fortune cards

The Sonic fandom has long been the kind of fandom that takes minor details very seriously, for better or worse. On the one hand, this means fans will really dig for the diamonds in the rough, latching onto fun character interactions, animations, bits of background worldbuilding, and more in pieces of Sonic media that many would write off as "the bad ones." But it also feels like every week another needlessly hostile debate over Sonic minutia erupts on Twitter, whether it's over individual lines of dialogue, fanart that makes Tails' shoes blue, or the ideal length and volume for Sonic's quills.

So it was probably inevitable that a fandom-wide debate would erupt upon seeing Amy's new gameplay style in the DLC for Sonic Frontiers, which takes the once-obscure fact that she enjoys reading tarot and shines a spotlight on it like never before.

I mean:

The thing is, while I basically always try to tune out Sonic fandom bickering... for once, I kind of sympathize with the detractors? Don't get me wrong, I like Amy's tarot stuff, and people on all sides of the discussion are being overly nasty about their opinions, as usual. (Sonic Twitter remains my personal hell.) But when I set aside the hyperbole and zoom out, I do think I understand why some fans are put off by the sudden shift in focus for the character, even if I think it's cool.

It's complicated. Let me attempt to present the cases for and against Amy's fortune cards

For years, I was always one of those fans who thought it could be fun if they played with Amy's tarot reading, or even leaned into some kind of magic with her. Part of that is my own biases showing, but there's just something that makes sense there, especially when you look at Sonic, Tails, and Amy as a trio. (I would argue that's the real "Team Sonic" these days, especially in the comics where Knuckles is more likely to be stuck on Angel Island or otherwise doing his own thing.)

You could argue that Tails is all about logic, relying on science and technology and deductive reasoning to solve problems. But Amy is all about emotion. She wears her heart on her sleeve, is extremely empathetic, and is very prone to magical thinking - both figuratively and sometimes literally. Her origin story has always been that her tarot cards told her it was her destiny to meet Sonic on Little Planet. She's claimed to be able to "sense" peoples' presences - particularly Sonic's. She's the type to believe that The Power of Love is a literal magical force. So, on some level, it makes sense to mirror Tails's science by having Sonic's other best friend believe in magic. And then Sonic is somewhere in the middle, primarily following his own gut instincts but taking advice from both of them as needed. This isn't totally accurate to how their dynamics actually function in canon stories, but I think it's a mode that could work for them.

Going off of that, it's fun to lean all the way into Amy being a magical girl, or even a witch, using her fortune telling as a foundation. Take, for example, this version of Amy from Diana Skelly's old Sonic cast redesigns from before she freelanced for Archie and IDW. This is one of MANY such redesigns for Amy.

Fast forward to the 2020s, and Amy's tarot cards are, in fact, finally getting brought up again in canon. Which is fun! I like seeing that. I like all of the individual stories involving Amy's fortune cards. This is a fun character trait for Amy, a fun nod to old lore, AND a fun storytelling device, all in one. It's really cool that the Sonic universe has its own thematically appropriate arcana, and that the cards are getting made as physical merch. And sure enough, the official card backs and borders were designed by none other than Diana Skelly, in yet another cool example of an ascendant fan leaving their mark on the series.

BUT... when you step back and look at the big picture, I get why some fans find this shift in focus jarring. At the moment, it's starting to feel like every new story about Amy involves her fortune cards to some degree.

The most recent mainline comic arc to feature Amy as the lead character, 2021's Trial by Fire arc, prominently features a sequence where she reads fortunes while camping with the girls. The Origins version of Sonic CD now bookends the game with scenes of Amy and her tarot cards. Sonic randomly mentioned it in a scene in Frontiers. And now, just this week, we got the (very cute, gorgeously illustrated) Amy's 30th Anniversary comic with a story revolving around Amy's tarot cards, followed the very next day by the Frontiers DLC in which she gets a brand new tarot-based moveset. Even her base melee attack now has her throwing tarot cards instead of swinging her hammer. Again, I like all of these individual things, but after years of it almost never coming up at all, it's VERY noticeable that Amy's tarot cards are suddenly everywhere.

To be fair, I'm looking at this from the perspective of a superfan who's actively following ALL Sonic media. Casual fans - especially kids - aren't necessarily going to be reading the comics every month, buying the thousandth rerelease of the Genesis games, or playing the ultra-hard new alternate ending DLC for a game that came out last year. Each of these stories is going to be someone's introduction to the idea that Amy can read tarot, and that's probably part of the idea behind this unified push.

But to play devil's advocate, for my fellow superfans, I understand why it feels like a very minor footnote of Amy's character is suddenly becoming the entire focus of her personality. While Amy has always been said to enjoy fortune telling, that wasn't really a character trait in and of itself, but rather an example of her being a typical girl who hopes she'll be able to find true love one day. It's less that Amy can literally predict the future and more like her using a cootie catcher or going "he loves me, he loves me not" while picking the petals off of a flower. So I get not vibing with this stuff, or feeling like it's being pushed very hard out of nowhere.

What I don't agree with are comparisons like "it's like if they made Knuckles' moveset revolve around him liking grapes." Like, I get it. Ian Flynn loves shoehorning in his little winking references for us nerds, and mentions of Amy's tarot cards were previously on the same level as other random bullet points from old Japanese manuals. But a multifaceted hobby like fortune telling that opens up so many narrative and aesthetic possibilities is obviously very different from having a favorite food. It's ALWAYS been a part of her story, not just a random fact, and there's no reason why the fortune telling can't be elevated to something more.

And, hell, even if it wasn't an established character trait, there's nothing inherently wrong with injecting new ideas into a character. One of the best Amy stories in recent years, the Free Comic Book Day special "Amy's New Hobby" written by Gale Galligan, came up with the idea that Amy's secretly been drawing little comics about her and her friends. Is this based on Lore? No. But it's cute, and helps tell the story of a younger Amy who's still coming out of her shell as both a hero and a friend.

Certain fans are also looking at Amy's Frontiers moveset and using it as evidence that once again the Vile American Contributors like Ian are CORRUPTING Sonic Team's perfect vision of Sonic with their misinterpretations. And like. Come on. Ian does not control the gameplay. He's a freelance writer. The tarot stuff is clearly something that Sonic Team likes if they made it the basis of Amy's new moveset - and, you know, if they keep approving comics and animations about Amy's fortune telling. None of this gets made without their blessing, and lord knows how much they can micromanage shit and shoot down ideas over the most minor of details.

Like, yeah, Amy's fortune telling was probably conceived less as a sign that she Knows Magic and more as a pretty mundane hobby for a lovesick young Japanese girl to have. But you're gonna sit there and tell me that using Amy's tarot cards for more than that could only be the result of a cultural misunderstanding? That nobody in Japan uses tarot card theming and aesthetics (or the general idea of magical cards) for the cool factor? Stardust Crusaders? Persona? The Astrologian class in FFXIV? Cardcaptor Sakura?? Hello??? Do you think Capcom put Gambit in Marvel vs. Capcom ironically because they thought using magic to throw cards at people was stupid? There's tons of precedent for this! It's nothing like Knuckles throwing grapes at people, be for real.

Giving Amy a very magical girl-esque moveset also just makes a lot of sense. For decades her hammer attacks have literally made sparkly heart shapes appear around her. Leaning into both that and her tarot cards in her new moveset makes a lot of sense to me.

But, admittedly... I do think it's very odd that her hammer is treated as a secondary element here, rather than having her primarily use her hammer and adding the cards for extra flair. If hitting the attack button made her swing her hammer instead of throwing cards, I'm not sure we'd even be having this discussion right now.

But the tarot-cycle and Amy riding her hammer like a witch's broom are fucking SICK and I will not concede on this point

The thing is, this whole fortune card discourse is but a small piece of a bigger problem. Amy's been a character who needed some work for ages, but there's basically nothing you can do with her without pissing SOMEONE off.

Years of stories where Amy's crush was her primary motivator and Sonic went "Ew, cooties!" have lead many casual fans to believe that being Sonic's obsessive fangirl is Amy's entire personality. At best people might call her Sonic's Minnie Mouse. This isn't just a matter of Amy having haters within the fandom - venture outside of that bubble and you'll realize that this is how MOST video game playing people seem to see her to this day. I don't feel like this is a fair assessment of the character, but this idea didn't come from nowhere. No matter how much good deeply entrenched Sonic fans may see in their old dynamic where Amy perpetually chases Sonic, this is a very real problem that Sonic Team has to contend with for their leading girl. Of course all those games where the way-past-cool protagonist thought Amy was annoyingly clingy and tried to get away from her made people think less of her.

If new stories were to go back to emphasizing Amy's crush on Sonic a little more, they'd probably be taken as confirmation that Amy's just the girl with a crush on Sonic and that this is her entire personality. Conversely, when the crush is played down, you piss off the hardcore SonAmy fans who don't seem to understand that they're Charlie Brown and Sega is Lucy holding the football. You can't win.

And so here we are. In the absence of what was once her defining trait, now reduced to an occasional blush or wink in Sonic's direction, new stories are trying to mine Amy's past for additional material to work with. Having been a thing fans wanted to see for years, right now we're getting a lot of tarot, but we're also getting reminders of her compassionate nature and her desire to go out of her way to help the little guy. This is an ongoing process. I continue to hope that her bubbly, exuberant demeanor can shine more in future stories. Now, I also hope that the tarot stuff gets balanced out a little better with other traits of hers. But I don't want it to go away. I think it's fun.

This course correcting is far from exclusive to Amy. Knuckles is getting stories that remind us that he's a competent fighter, an experienced treasure hunter, and even a self-taught archaeologist after years of him being perceived as either the dumb one or just the guy who stands in front of the Master Emerald all day. And Tails has been getting some stories reminding folks that he's a capable hero in his own right and not just Sonic's timid kid sidekick.

But no supporting character will ever compete with the sheer number of new ideas Sega has tried with Sonic himself. Like Amy, his Frontiers moveset has also given him half a dozen new superpowers that he never had before, from the Cyloop to air-slicing projectile attacks to his own take on Shadow Clone Jutsu and beyond. He's also been a hoverboarder, a swordsman, a time traveler, an Olympic athlete, a racecar driver, cursed with a Flame of Judgment, imbued with alien power, a fucking Werehog with stretchy powers, and on and on and on.

If Sonic can do all that, Amy can try out using a tarot-cycle.

Anyway TL;DR the REAL problem with Amy's current characterization... is where the FUCK is Amy's bestie, Honey the Cat???????

[pixelheartthrob]

Elise & the Duke

Elise's relationship with her father isn't discussed very much. I think it's actually one of the most interesting aspects about 06.

In a flashback, he's shown telling a young Elise "Don't cry" and "Become a strong queen who doesn't cry no matter what happens" in response to her grieving over her mother's death, which is...not great. A child should be allowed to grieve over their deceased parent. Although the Duke means well and says this because he genuinely believes strong leaders never cry (which is far from the truth), that doesn't make what he's doing okay. It doesn't matter that he's saying it in a soft and gentle tone, either. To a child, it's likely gonna seem like a dismissal of their feelings (which it is). This also shows that he was telling Elise to never cry before he used her as a vessel to seal Iblis.

Another thing I find interesting is that Elise says "I understand everything my parents said to me now." It could imply that Elise's mother held the same sentiment as the Duke, but we don't know for sure.

Now, onto the Solaris Project. Some time before the project began, the Duke told Elise that Solaris' power would allow them to travel through time and rectify past mistakes. The main reason the Duke began the project was so Elise could see her late mother again. Once again, good intentions, but the Duke experimenting with supernatural forces beyond his understanding cost him his life and hurt many people, perhaps his daughter most of all.

So long story short, the project goes wrong and the Duke is fatally wounded in an explosion but shortly before his death, he sealed the Flames of Disaster in Elise and pretty much left her clean up his mess. She was cursed to never shed a single tear, had to rule an entire kingdom at a young age, is relentlessly pursued and kidnapped by a madman who wants to harness her power, and when she makes a single friend, he gets murdered right before her eyes by the creature that her father experimented on all those years ago. Elise is suffering the consequences for her father's actions.

And how does Elise feel about her father after all this? She still loves him deeply. She doesn't express any anger towards him or angst about the way he treated her, or that he inadvertently caused her suffering, even though she has every right to do so. You get the sense that she doesn't realize her father's "love" was actually quite abusive, which is just really tragic. At the start of the game, Elise lacks confidence, is unsure of what she can do in her situation, and even blames herself for the things that are happening. Her attitude gradually changes when she meets Sonic, who encourages her to be more proactive and truly enjoy life instead of being restricted by her role as a princess.

Yet people get on Elise's case for breaking down once at the tail end of the game over the fact that she'd lose the memories of her only friend and would be separated from him?

Elise doesn't mean what she said in this moment, and blows out Solaris' flame to save the world seconds later. She had to bottle up her emotions for a decade and now has to say goodbye to the person whom she grew to love over the course of their adventure. Her reaction here is more than justified.

Elise is such a good character 🤍

[beevean]

Didn't someone from Sonic Team also say he thought Shadow would seal himself away again in the future? That does really feel like a big "We don't know what else to do with him anymore" to me, tbh😅 Afaik Shadow doesn't like humanity at all, but I do get the feeling he'd want to stay around and help in his own way, considering he knows Eggman's legacy is still around in the future as well, you know? Certainly not like Sonic in how sociable he is, but I also don't think he'd turn his back so completely on the planet that his allies and family all adored so much either🤔

It was his own creator Maekawa, apparently. I suppose he had played Megaman Zero back then :P except Zero sealed himself to IIRC allow scientists to study him and find a cure for the Sigma Virus, not because he got bored of the world.

Shadow in Forces is pretty much how I imagine him in a post-character development setting. He's still ruthless, but willing to help the world if necessary. Whether he does to keep his promise to Maria or because he genuinely believes in the cause (protecting the Earth, however he feels about humanity as a whole), that can be discussed, but even if it's the former, you can still honor a promise to a dead beloved and heal from the grief.

The entire point of ShTH was precisely to put an end to Shadow grappling with his past: if in the ambiguously canon Pure Hero-Hero ending he chooses to be a hero in Maria's name, in the canon Last Story he takes active steps to move on entirely.

A Shadow Generations game only makes sense if Shadow rejects BD's manipulations precisely because he's no longer the insecure, amnesiac, traumatized person he was in ShTH. But even so, it's pretty clear that Shadow's appeal to the masses is basically his lowest point in his life, even more so since his more recent iterations got bashed because "he's no longer the deep character I loved in the 2000s".

It's a shame. If Shadow's "depth" is entirely his tragic past from which he's not allowed to move on, doesn't it imply that you fans don't actually believe he's deep?

[noeggets]

Noeggets has a lot of deep thoughts about Shadow's characterization

it's so sad that Shadow was only a project to gerald, like we all joke /think that Shadow was "part of the family" but he was only a cure to Maria, that man was not as good a person as we think he was IM NOt SAYING HE WAS BAD but i usually see him depicted as super super kind to Shadow but i was reading the lore of SA2 and watching an analysis video and if the president never asked him to make whatever he asked him to make Shadow very well would not have been created.

It's so dark and so sad, like he manipulated Shadow when he went insane how do you think it feels to Shadow to know the person who made him didn't truly love him? like neither of the things that created/help create Shadow really truly loved him, he's only a cure, he's just a thing to reach immortality, he very well could be immortal himself, Shadow i don't think he can die cause he was created to not be able to catch any disease and be immortality it's self.

How do you think that feels? to just be a thing? Biolizard is just a failed attempt at making Shadow based on Chaos, those Chaos things in the ARK are failed attempts at Shadow also based on Chaos, i never knew this until i read the wiki 2 days ago SA2 has such a dark story i feel so bad for Shadow

re-thinking what i used to think about IDW Shadow lemme explain

And now that i know all this about Shadow the way he acts in IDW makes a little more sense to me, we all thought he was stupid when Sonic said "don't touch those zobot guys you'll turn into one" and Shadow was all "yeah, i dont care this wont effect me" HE WAS LIKE THIS FOR TWO REASONS

he was mad at Sonic cause his whole thing i want to achieve world peace i already talked about how IDW Shadow doesn't have as much compassion as the Shadow we all know from any other game but this is Eggman we're talking about, with everything Eggman's done up to this point do you think Shadow believes there is any good in him when he rarely does anything good Shadow has seen? Time eater, Sonic unleashed, Shadow is not ignorant to Eggman waking up a monster inside the planet everybody whether we seen them or not knows sonic unleashed happen, Sonic brings up sonic unleashed in IDW so it canonly happened. i remember reading that Knuckles and Shadow were gonna be in Sonic unleashed and if that's true SHADOW IS AWARE OF THIS

Eggman is a threat to the world to Shadow but he allowed the doctor to be cause Sonic keeps him check, Sonic is starting to be "unable" to keep him in check from Shadow's view, Shadow was there in forces, he witness what Eggman did to greenhill, he fought infinite who is a merc hired by Eggman mercs off people, Shadow is trying to save people that's his whole thing. After what happen to Shadow in Episode Shadow in forces do you think Shadow would hold any sympathy for Eggman the next time he physically see's him? After what he did to the world, after what he did to Omega? right in front of his eyes? Using Infinite to corrupt Omega and scare him Shadow cares about Omega that's his friend i had a point but i forgot it dang it anyway Shadow was in the war,

i remembered it a little bit i think i think i was gonna say something about when GUN sent Shadow to rescue Omega idk i haven't touched forces in sometime, and Shadow didn't come back as well as Omega. Eggman immobilized Shadow Shadow does not think the world is safe with Eggman around i think that was my point i don't remember...

ANYWAY that's why when Shadow came to see mr tinker he was pissed that Sonic allowed Eggman to be, this is dangerous to Shadow. when Shadow was getting mad at Sonic cause Sonic was preaching let Mr. Tinker live Shadow was thinking about the bigger picture: This man is terrorizing people and the only way to keep everyone safe is getting rid of him, this may be the only chance we get, but he let him live because Sonic explained that Shadow did bad things in the past as well so does that mean Shadow gets to go down with Eggman?

Shadow was mad at Sonic and the mess he made, Shadow was being compassionate i just didn't see it or understand it until now, it shocked him greatly when he was consumed by metal virus because he truly believed he could not catch a disease, this is a disease, so he wasn't being stupid i will admit he should have been more cautious not to put it to the test if it would work on him but Shadow was so sure he couldn't catch it, cause he believed he can't catch any KNOWN diseases this was a new disease his body wasn't created to understand therefore it works on him.

We thought SEGA didn't know what they were doing when they were writing IDW Shadow BUT THEY KNEW WHAT THEY WERE DOING people probably don't even care or remember about when that issue came out and everyone got so mad that Shadow was written "wrong" and being "stupid" but now that i have a understanding i think understand what he was doing and his thought process.

Shadow is moving up on my favorite list for this i feel so bad for Shadow F in the chat for Shadow his story is so sad like really. also heres an old thing i did that's really valid now

[toaarcan]

(please excuse my English I actually speak German) hello, huge Fiona fox fan here I have been reading lots of your rants about fiona, on how her character had lots more potential and that her relationship with scourge is heavily abusive (on which I really agree btw) and since their not many fiona fans here I just wanted to ask you since I literally have no one to talk to. In sonic the hedgehog issue 179 on page 14 sonic says a specific line dialogue that's been driving me crazy. He explains to tails that he hooked up with Fiona hoping that he would move on, but ALSO because he was still getting over Sally stating that "Fiona was there*. Which kind of feels like that even if Fiona had genuine feelings for sonic he would have been still thinking about her. Now I am really wondering could this be a reason Fiona cheated on him, since she felt again like getting burned? We never saw the process of Fiona meeting secretly with scourge, but I heavily theory that A. He could have lied to her at a lot of points and B. That just maybe he could have told her about sonic maybe not truly loving her. Either all of that is true or I'm just going crazy but what's your opinion?

Your English is better than my German, to need to apologise.

You're right about that, while Sonic says his primary motivation for getting together with Fiona was his terrible plan to help Tails, it's also pretty apparent that Fiona is a rebound girl for him. The timing of when the relationship started is much too obvious for that: He and Fiona start their relationship in Issue 155, the same one where Sally's forced marriage to Patch is announced. I have no doubt that this information stirred up all of Sonic's hurt feelings from Issue 134 and drove him toward the course of action he took.

Now, that doesn't justify what he did, what he did is still an awful thing to do to someone, but it does explain it a little better.

I don't think Fiona knew what was going on in Sonic's head during their relationship. If she did, she almost certainly would've brought that up as a point against him, instead of only referring to her traumatic backstory.

(Sidenote: I think her betrayal makes a lot more sense if you reorder some of the stories in the 170s so that Eggman's attack on Knothole comes first, and reopens all of her old wounds. Then it makes total sense for her to snap and accuse Sonic of being too weak- instead of a dumb "I think being good is weak and being evil is strong!" logic that so many shallow villains have, she actually has a point, and an obvious example, that after everything Eggman did to them, a repeat of what Robotnik did to her, the FF still let him go when they easily could've captured or killed him)

That said, I think it's likely that Fiona realised she was a rebound and this pushed her closer to accepting Scourge's advances.

I think Scourge lying to her should be taken as given. Probably about Sonic, definitely about himself. However, I don't think he knew for sure how Sonic felt, simply because Scourge doesn't understand Sonic at all, ironically enough. We can see as much from his attempt at a "One bad day" speech, he fully believes that Sonic is only a bad day away from turning out like Scourge himself did, but Sonic has arguably had a rougher life than Scourge ever did. We've seen him have plenty of bad days and never once has he turned into Scourge.

Scourge thinks everyone is worse than they actually are, in essence. I have no doubt that he presents his flawed perception of everyone to Fiona, why else would she, a character who owes her whole life to the support she's received from other people (first Nic, then the FF) suddenly turn around and declare that "You can't count on anybody?"

It's an idea that fits so little with what we know of her character and history that it more than likely came from someone else, like the known liar and manipulator she's suddenly 'romantically' entangled with.

That said, him not knowing about how Sonic felt doesn't mean he can't tell Fiona that Sonic doesn't love her. He is, after all, a liar, and likely playing to Fiona's fears and anxieties. If he realises that Fiona believes Sonic is using her as a rebound, he would absolutely have agreed with the notion despite not knowing whether it was true or not.

This is part of what frustrates me with Fiona's character: There's the pieces here to make something absolutely fantastic with her, and Archie just... didn't do that. Her existence pre-155 is largely an afterthought, from 155-171 she's "Sonic's shady girlfriend" and then post-172 she's "Scourge's girlfriend", and that's all she's allowed to be. Even her one outing as an independent villain (with her own team, because of course the character who believes you can't trust anyone has immediately gone and gotten herself another team) turns out to be setup for her getting Scourge back.

Whether you prefer her as a hero, villain, or somewhere in the middle, Fiona has enormous potential as a character, and Archie never used it.

[randomthefox]

Do you think the tweet Evan made about Surge being in Forces was some form of damage control after realizing how utterly pathetic surge's character and arc really are?

"I know a lot of you were hyped up for Surge's run as a villain and became extremely disappointed with how lackluster all of her showings were but uuuhhh she'd DEFINITELY singlehandedly change the plot of a game!! I'm one of her designers, so take my word for it! Surge is definitely a competent villain, and I totally didn't make her look like a punchline!"

That's the only way it could make sense. Especially when you consider how depressingly pathetic Evan made Surge look when writing the story.

Now I'm just wondering why FLYNN made Surge look so pathetic when writing her storyline since she's meant to be his ideal vision of sonic rival and whatnot

I think it was her shit talking Sonic Forces. Because it's a popular game to hate on.

I don't think it goes any deeper than that. She went "lol [Sonic game] would have been SOOOOO MUCH BETTER if [comic character] was in it AMIRITE?"

Because they hate the video games and explicitly pander to the audience that also hates the video games. I don't believe it went any deeper than that.

[sage-nebula]

arcane au you say? :eyes:

Well, not a full AU, but more like "ideas for what an AU could look like while keeping the characters true to who they are, rather than forcing them to fit the characters from the show."

Like for instance . . . Sonic does have some things in common with Vi, and Tails does have some things in common with Powder. But while I can see some exchanges between Vi and Power working between Sonic and Tails (e.g. I could see Tails' borrowing Powder's line: "Just that you were 'twice the person at half my age'. You heard them, I'm not a fighter"; as well as Sonic borrowing Vi's, "What makes you different makes you strong. Remember that"), I can't see their relationship breaking apart in the same way that Vi's and Powder's did at the end of episode three. It's probably my unbreakable bond bias speaking, but—actually, no, you know what? It's not, because I didn't come up with "unbreakable bond" for them. Sega came up with that. It's their team-up name in Sonic Advance 3. Sonic and Tails literally have an unbreakable bond, so I just can't see their relationship fracturing or falling apart like Vi's and Powder's did in Arcane. It just doesn't work, on numerous levels:

1.) Tails' inventions work. RIP to Powder, but he's different. So already, there's a critical difference in how the story would play out.

2.) Unless he was mind controlled or otherwise out of control of his own body, I really cannot see Sonic hitting Tails. I definitely can't see him continuing to manhandle Tails as Tails sobs and cowers and pleads with him to stop. Not only is Sonic a pretty private person with his more painful emotions (this is why Sega says he can't cry), but even in a situation where some of Tails' tech malfunctioned or was used against them, and their other friends died . . . seeing Tails breaking down into hysterics over what happened would quell Sonic's own rage. Yeah, of course he'd feel some kind of way about it. He might bench Tails for a while. But he wouldn't smack him, wouldn't manhandle him, wouldn't scream at him, wouldn't storm off and leave Tails screaming and crying after him. That's just not who Sonic is.

So already, the thing that separates the two before the timeskip would have to be different. To keep it in-character, I think it would make much more sense for there to be an intense situation, perhaps a face-off against Eggman or something. The situation is really bad, they're being overwhelmed, maybe a few of their friends have already been killed. And Sonic, because he always makes Tails' safety a priority, shoves Tails out of a window or something to get him out of the proximity of the danger. And then, before Tails can get back in there to help Sonic escape, the building explodes and Tails is made to believe that Sonic perished in the explosion.

(Sonic didn't. Instead, he was captured by Eggman and imprisoned for the next five or six years. But Tails doesn't know that.)

And then that brings us to the next change. Because while Eggman would still be the big bad in this, I can't see any scenario where he takes in and genuinely comes to love Tails. And that's a pretty big thing for Silco and Powder/Jinx; Silco saw himself in the little girl sobbing over her feelings of betrayal by a sibling, which is why he took her in. And he truly came to love her as his daughter. It wasn't a ploy, or an act. He really loved her. But Eggman only loves himself and I can't see that changing / don't want to drastically change the characters for an AU to work. So although he's still the primary villain in the story, he can't be the Silco equivalent when it comes to the brothers.

But you know who could? Shadow.

Because in this scenario, Tails wasn't abandoned; instead, his big brother sent him away from the danger, and then was killed basically right in front of him (or so Tails thinks). And what do you know, but the same thing basically happened to Shadow. His older sister-figure, Maria, sent him away from the danger, and then was gunned down herself as a result. It's something that, in canon, fucks him up to this day, to the point where in the Twitter Takeovers not even Eggman will taunt Shadow with it. So in this case, when Tails is sobbing his heart out in the street because he thinks that Sonic just got blown to pieces while he, Tails, could do nothing but watch, well . . .

Shadow: "You're a heartbroken younger sibling whose older sibling died in front of you in an effort to protect you?"

So in this scenario, perhaps Shadow knew Sonic and Tails a little before this, and so he still asks Tails where his brother is. And Tails, like Powder, launches himself at Shadow, still sobbing, and says that his brother died, he's dead and Tails could do nothing, because Sonic sent him away before he could help. And Shadow remembers the this-AU-version of how Maria died, and so he slowly hugs Tails back, and Silco's line changes just enough so that it's:

"It's okay. We'll avenge them. We'll avenge them both."

And that's how he adopts Tails as his new little brother and teaches him such things as "revenge feels awesome" and "murder is okay."

Sonic's in for a big surprise when he gets busted out of jail, let me tell you.

[therummesoccupied]

WHY (I used to think) SONIC THE HEDGEHOG HAS A SPLIT TIMELINE - EVEN IF SEGA SAYS IT DOESN'T (and some insight as to why I'm less inclined to believe so now)

So earlier this month, IDW's Fang the Hunter Issue #3 came out, and I've really wanted to share my thoughts on it, but...

The thing is, it ends on a pretty big plot twist, and it has me going full Tin Foil-Hat about a certain theory, and to talk about that, I first need to talk about what I believed about the Sonic the Hedgehog canon before reading this issue in order to properly address what changed.

So I need to talk about the Sonic Timeline, and how my personal interpretation of it has been at odds with word-of-god information coming out of SEGA for some time.

At some point some time ago, it was confirmed by writer Ian Flynn on his podcast, that every single Classic Sonic game takes place in Modern Sonic's past - this covers not just the Genesis/Game Gear/Saturn games, but Classic Sonic's perspective of Sonic Generations and Sonic Forces, Sonic Mania, and all of IDW's Classic Sonic stories as well. In any other franchise, this is a no-brainer. But for Sonic the Hedgehog this doesn't make sense.

Specifically, it does not make sense for every Classic Sonic story, starting with his perspective of Generations, to take place in the same timeline as the Modern Sonic games starting with Sonic 4 (or Sonic Adventure depending on what you consider canon) because, from that point onward, the Classic Sonic characters have memories that the Modern Sonic characters do not have.

For the unfamiliar, Sonic Generations is a sort of chronological-crossover story in which the Modern incarnation of Sonic joins forces with his past, Classic, self - reliving events from various adventures he's had over the course of his life.

At the end, a mysterious portal opens up and whisks Classic Sonic away back to his own time period. From here on out, we start getting new stories taking place in the Classic era, starting with Sonic Mania, in which Dr. Eggman seeks to utilize the power of a mysterious, new gem called the Phantom Ruby. At the end of the game, the Phantom Ruby opens a strange portal and (Classic) Sonic jumps through it.

This leads directly into Sonic Forces, another crossover story in which the Modern Dr. Eggman uses the Phantom Ruby's power to take over the world and (Modern) Sonic and his friends band together to stop him. Part of the way into the story, a mysterious portal opens up - the same mysterious portal from the end of Sonic Mania - and Classic Sonic emerges from it to team up with Modern Sonic again before being sent back to his own era at the end of the game.

Here is where the problems begin. Classic Sonic experiences all of the events of Sonic Generations, and is shown to remember them when he reunites with and appears to recognize the Modern characters (this cannot be literally confirmed, as Classic Sonic is always portrayed as mute during these crossover stories, but he doesn't appear to be confused or anything when they verbally recognize him). Yet, when the same events happen to Modern Sonic... he doesn't remember them.

He doesn't go "Oh weird white void. And Green Hill's here? I remember this! This is that time I went to the future and fought that Time Eater thing!"

Furthermore, over the course of Sonic Generations, (Classic) Sonic meets a whole bunch of his future friends, and yet, when he first encounters them as his Modern self, he... doesn't recognize them.

When Shadow first shows up in Sonic Adventure 2 and starts rambling about a jewel containing the ultimate power, he doesn't say "Hey! I know you! You're that guy from the future! Are we friends? You seem like a bad guy right now..."

On top of that, there is a series of canon Sonic Forces prequel comics that set the stage for the game's story - one of which involves (Modern) Eggman finding the Phantom Ruby - which he, you guessed it, does not recognize, despite having had an entire adventure (allegedly in his own past) entirely centered around him using its power!

As Forces' story progresses, the Heroes learn that the Phantom Ruby is at the core of Eggman's operation, and lo and behold none of them recognize it.

It's not even like so much real-world time had passed that the writers themselves forgot - Sonic Mania and Sonic Forces were released three months apart! The games' stories are deliberately written in such a way that they are meant to be connected together!

So what explanations do we have for these characters not remembering events that supposedly happened to them? Personally, I have seen three theories floating about.

Theory #1: Due to Time Travel Shenanigans, Classic Sonic's memories were wiped upon his return to his own timeline.

This is fairly a common plot device in time travel stories, I can specifically think of some instances where this happens in Doctor Who. A character meets their future self, who does not have any prior memory of this encounter, and to conserve the nature of their meeting, time itself wipes the past incarnation's memory so that they won't remember it when it happens to them later.

I've always thought this kinda thing to be a bit of a cop-out, but this one is actually kind of implied by the very last issue of Archie's Sonic comics. However, those distinctly take place in a different continuity, and are not considered canon in any way to the main games or the IDW comics.

This doesn't even explain everything to begin with, since Sonic Mania doesn't have any time travel until the very end. The entire story takes place in the Classic Era. Sonic doesn't time travel - and therefore does not encounter his "future" self - until the adventure is already over! Mania even has a DLC Encore campaign that opens with Sonic exiting the portal at the end of Sonic Forces and having another adventure centering around the Phantom Ruby, once again set entirely in the Classic era, post-time travel!

To hammer this point even further home, in IDW's Classic Sonic stories, which have been stated and demonstrated to be canon to the world of the games, Sonic and crew encounter the Hard-Boiled Heavies, who were first introduced in Mania, and by god they recognize them, meaning that these characters, in their Classic incarnations, definitely do remember the events of Sonic Mania after the fact while their Modern counterparts do not.

So Time Travel Memory-Wipe is out. This brings us to

Theory #2: Sonic has had so many adventures, he doesn't remember all of them.

This one almost makes sense. In IDW, it's stated that Sonic has saved the world literally nine hundred times.

I have never done nine hundred of anything and remembered all of them. The problem once again comes from Sonic Forces. In that game, Eggman imprisons Sonic for six whole months and takes over 99% of the world - which might as well be the whole thing. You cannot convince me that Sonic could go to the future, see a world where Dr. Eggman has completely conquered the planet and his future self is a war prisoner, and that he just forgot about it. Not when he's shown to remember it the second time around. Not when he remembers The Deadly Six. It stretches the imagination far, far beyond the shattering point of suspension of disbelief, even for a plucky video game franchise about a cartoon hedgehog.

This leaves us with

Theory #3: Sonic Generations and its Time Travel Shenanigans cause a Legend of Zelda-style timeline split, resulting in all Classic Sonic stories that take place after that point being set in another (Classic) universe that shares history with the main (Modern) universe up until the point of the split, at which point it branches off into an alternate timeline.

Believe it or not, this one was kind of implied by the game that caused Most Of The Problems to begin with, Sonic Forces. Upon encountering Classic Sonic in that game (Modern) Tails exclaims:

The use of the words "Other Dimension" is odd here, as last time they met, Classic Sonic was Sonic From The Past as far as Tails was concerned. Even if he had quickly worked out a Timeline Split here, "Dimension" instead of "Timeline" was a fairly poor choice of words - and if I'm being honest, that kind of inconsistent writing and its commonality within the Sonic franchise it the true culprit behind literally every one of these issues.

Still, I think it was pretty clear what was being implied here. Classic Sonic's perspective of Generations and Forces, as well as Mania and all the IDW Classic Sonic stories take place in a separate universe created by Generations' events.

So why did they change this?

I have my theories, but they're not particularly confirmable. For a long while, SEGA has had a habit of keeping Classic and Modern Sonic more or less separate, except in the case of crossovers. Modern Sonic stories seldom reference the events of any Classic stories, and characters and enemies from the Classic games seem to be strictly off-limits to appear in Modern Sonic material. It's kind of lame, and from what I can gather, the fanbase at large has never been particularly happy about it.

I believe that, with this arbitrary separation already in place, many fans were lead to misinterpret this "Other Dimension" line. Instead of a new timeline that branched off after a certain point, I think many fans believed this line meant that literally every Classic Sonic story - Sonic 1, Sonic 2, Sonic CD, Sonic 3 & Knuckles, etc. - took place in a separate universe from literally every Modern Sonic story, and that the Modern Sonic universe as we know it begins with Sonic 4/Sonic Adventure.

I remember seeing blacklash against this idea - an idea that, as far as I could tell, wasn't even what the creators were trying to communicate. In turn, those same creators appeared to misinterpret the criticism they were receiving, believing the fans were upset at the idea of a Split Timeline rather than realizing the fans were operating under the notion of altogether Separate Timelines. Because of this, instead of clarifying what they actually meant, SEGA did something SEGA is wont to do, and took a sharp turn in the opposite direction - with Ian Flynn confirming that they are now operating under the notion of one shared timeline.

Now, the Split Timeline theory isn't perfect. It brings up its fair share of questions, like "Why did Sonic Generations' Time Travel cause a Timeline Split when the Time Travel of Sonic CD and Sonic '06 seemed to have a direct effect from the past to future?"

The thing is, there are lots and lots of ways to handwave this pretty concisely. Perhaps the nature of the Time Eater is different from the power of the Time Stones, Solaris, and Chaos Control-induced Time travel. Nothing in the series outright implies this, but it's pretty quick and easy and works just fine. I can't think of a single other explanation for the memory discrepancies between the Modern and Classic Sonic casts that doesn't bring up more, harder-to-answer questions.

Now, this was not necessarily a huge deal. As long as Mania and the Classic IDW stories weren't being referenced in any Modern Sonic material - and, again, SEGA tends to like to keep those things separate - I, and anyone else who wanted to, could safely ignore what SEGA was saying out-of-continuity. Heck, at one point, SEGA was saying that the Sonic series took place on two planets instead of one, and the fanbase collectively ignored them so hard that they ended up changing their minds and retconning it. I appear to be in the minority in this particular case, however, so I don't see that as being likely.

The new problem arises in the case of Sonic Superstars, the latest main-series Sonic title, set entirely within the Classic era. This game causes two wrinkles.

One comes from TailsTube. TailsTube is a YouTube series produced by SEGA in an attempt to clean up some of the franchise's worldbuilding and answer some questions audiences might have about the series' universe and lore.

All of the information presented in these videos is meant to be considered entirely canon to the series, and in Episode 5, we hear Sonic (in his Modern incarnation, mind you) mention the upcoming anniversary of his adventure on North Star Island - referring to the events of Sonic Superstars. This reference being made by Modern Sonic specifically implies that the game's story takes place in the Modern Timeline, despite being a Classic story created after Sonic Generations.

Now, there's a fairly quick workaround explanation for this - it's that Sonic Superstars takes place entirely in the Modern Timeline, just before the point when Sonic's appearance changed to his Modern design - as even in a Split-Timeline scenario, Modern Sonic would have had the same appearance as Classic Sonic up to a certain point.

However, the idea of a single Classic Sonic game set in the Modern Sonic Timeline, after the Timeline Split, but before the appearance change is an exercise in mental gymnastics exhausting even to someone who has spent the past two hours writing about Sonic the Hedgehog Timeline Theories.

This also causes an issue when we consider our second wrinkle: Sonic Superstars' relationship to the IDW Comics.

The IDW comics are currently running a full arc set entirely in the Classic era, centering around Fang the Hunter. According to Flynn, this story takes place sometime after Sonic Mania, and sometime before Superstars, serving as something of a lead-in to the latter. This is a word of god we can't really ignore, as the events of Sonic Mania are pretty directly referenced within this story - so if there is a Timeline Split, it must take place in the Classic Timeline. But if it's leading up to Sonic Superstars, it has to take place in the Modern Timeline.

I'm sure there's a way to rectify this while keeping the Split Timeline theory in tact, but, again, my brain is tired of searching for answers to try and make the timeline of this Family Video Game Franchise work.

Or it was.

You see, Fang the Hunter #3 dropped earlier this month, and it did some stuff.

Ooooooohhhhh did it do some stuff. Some stuff that might not seem big at first glance, but when you're thinking too much about Sonic the Hedgehog at all hours of the day and night like I am, oooohhhhh boy.

I have a new theory about the Sonic Timeline. "Timeline." Singular. I don't even know if they meant to, but SEGA, Sonic Team, and Ian Flynn have brought me right around on this Unified Timeline thing.

But I won't get into it right now. I'm saving that nonsense for my Thoughts Post for Fang #3. So if you read this whole thing like some kind of Maniac,

A. Thanks for sticking with me for the duration of my Mad Ramblings

and

B. Please join me again when I do my Thoughts Post on Fang the Hunter #3, and how it informs my new theory about How the Sonic the Hedgehog Timeline works.

[skaruresonic]

My bf linked me this article that just dropped today about Bioware's hypothetical vision for a Chronicles sequel and I'm like, lol okay. Bit too late for that, Bioware, but sure.

This is painful to read, even as someone who thinks Chronicles' core concepts weren't all that bad in theory.

Big oofs ahoy.

"Nocturnes." You didn't actually play the game, did you? I can tell.

First the Encyclospeedia's "Precurator Shade," now this.

Collectively, they're called the Nocturnus clan. The individual soldier or unit is a Nocturne (as well as the clan's base of operations seen at the climax of the first game), but the game doesn't pluralize the name as "Nocturnes" with an E.

Research fail.

Also, I find it kind of weird that real-world locations are figuring into Eggman's conquest. Most locations in Chronicles were based on locations in Sonic's world (if they weren't already just those locations wholesale, like Green Hill), such as Blue Ridge being the remains of a post-Chaos Station Square.

So basically just Forces but several years before Forces.

"Terminator future" - ah, yes. Much vision, many wow. I can completely see how much it would suck to be oppressed by Eggman in such a future.

Also, don't you love the Big Bad Monster of the Week usurping Eggman yet again? Except this time it's so omgwtfbbq superspeshul that not even Super Sonic can defeat it, ohhhh noooo whatever shall we doooo, and... Wait, have I heard this somewhere before?

:/ The more things change...

"DYKG also says that Shade and Knuckles will be able to 'continue Knuckles' bloodline.'" - well that's a totally cool and normal thing to say about two characters in a kids' game who so happen to be the same species. not creepy at all

I love the implication here that Bioware were so certain their mega-awesome sequel would be such a hit with Sega and the fans that they believed they would have been able to get away with implementing yet another cliffhanger ending in order to keep pumping out sequels. You gotta love the hubris.

...Argus' motivations make no sense. It's a god, but apparently was so afraid of death at the hands of a mortal that it... trapped the most bloodthirsty races in the universe in the Twilight Cage to let them duke it out for the rest of time... because...? Stay tuned for the answer, ig?

Plus, why is it Bioware couldn't have answered the questions the first game raised in the second game? What would be the point of even making a sequel if that's the case?

This is the exact same problem Valve is having right now with Half-Life: they keep making sequels that end on cliffhangers while postponing the narrative. "Haha we totally have an awesome conclusion in the works, you guys, you just have to be patient ;> (doesn't even have an outline written)."

It could not be more obvious that they don't know how to end the story. Or, perhaps more accurately for Bioware's case, don't care, since apparently "they considered their obligations finished after the first game."

So like... What the hell were they even complaining for when Sega gave Chronicles the axe, then? If another party would have had to make the sequel anyway because Bioware washed their hands of the development process, then it inherently stands to follow that some of Bioware's Artistique Vision would have had to change.

Iizuka has... questionable ideas about the series, so I don't really place as much stock in his creative vision as that of other ST members. No offense.

In all honesty, though, as someone who likes the theoretical ideas underpinning Chronicles and Shade's character, I'm struggling to consider how Shade and Argus would impact the series in any substantial way without radically altering Knuckles' character and role. It's not like they'd have anything to do after Chronicles is over.

For all of this speculation about Argus, who was nothing more than a diablo ex machina only mentioned in passing in the first game, I can't help but notice that, conversely, almost nothing has been said about Shade and her motivations aside from her possible use in perpetuating Knuckles' bloodline, which... I find a little distasteful, to say the least. I mean, it isn't surprising. Whatever character development she could have had while battling alongside Sonic and co. in the first game is overlooked in order to turn her into an exposition fairy.

But, given that Bioware intended for there to be multiple sequels and for Shade to possibly earn a place as a permanent fixture in the cast, I'd at least expect something in the way of character development? Is she connected to Argus in some way? Is Argus the reason her warp belt hasn't yet broken, allowing her to stay on Earth for much longer than she should have? Better yet, how does Shade feel about helping other conquered peoples rise up against Eggman? Does she feel ill-equipped to lead, having served a tyrant for 4,000 years? Does she see similarities between Eggman and Ix, and internally kick herself for being so foolish as to fall for the same trick twice? Does it give her trust issues? Does Knuckles help her work through these issues and overcome her prejudices? Does her character actually matter here in an appropriate context given her circumstances? Does she have any internality of her own, or is she just a convenient sexy lamp means for Knuckles to not be so alone anymore?

[blazehedgehog]

I feel like this is a "me" thing but, does it seem like lately Sonic is the only character allowed to do anything important? (Bear in mind, I only really watch the shows and play the games.)

I mean, to some degree, yes. But that's because the mainstream at large spent 3-4 games absolutely furious at how distractingly big the cast of characters was in Sonic games.

I do not like to invoke them much these days, but for example, I believe Penny-Arcade had a fake award for Sonic Adventure 2 that was something like "Best Sonic game where you do not play as Sonic."

People were not happy with all of the spotlight stealing. More than humans suddenly appearing in the games, more than the change of Robotnik to Eggman, people hated having to play as Knuckles, or Tails, or Amy Rose, or Big the Cat, or Rouge, or Vector, or Espio, etc. etc. etc.

Especially when it was implemented in such frustrating ways. A lot of games from this era forced you to stop playing as Sonic and switch to someone else, whether it was dictated by the story (SA2, Sonic 06) or the gameplay (Heroes). You could never pick Sonic and stay Sonic.

Which lead to the shift in Sonic Unleashed, where they specifically promoted that game on "you only play as Sonic" even though the Werehog may as well have been a separate character for how different it was from Sonic.

And I guess that's been the driving force ever since. Sonic does all the important stuff because Sonic is the one you play as. It keeps cinematics short and simple, and makes for a more tidy experience overall.

Nowadays the people who grew up on games like Sonic Adventure 2 and Sonic Heroes are getting old enough that they're getting louder about their demands to go back to ensemble gameplay again and it doesn't make any sense to me. There's a serious financial burden to that kind of stuff, and unsurprisingly, certain quality of life elements became significantly better once they focused on a more narrow gameplay structure.

The ensemble games were messy, and while I know there's a certain charm to that, it's also very easy to get a game that is messy in a bad way. I'm not one for romanticizing these things.

[prowerprojects]

Heh, welcome to why I've always been so selective of Tails content in this fandom. I remember the early 2000s days of the fandom where he was either killed off to either enrage Sonic to hype up some new villain or replace him with a "better" partner. {Be it someone's OC or other popular characters like Shadow or Blaze} Or, due to accusations of being useless/not cool, he rarely used in anything meaningful. He's just cute and that's it. (With Tailsmo for flavor.)

Then Colors-Forces happened; I don't think I need to explain to this one, but no doubt this caused a shift in how he was viewed. (And the dynamic with Sonic.)

Stuff has somewhat chilled since then, but it feels like a 180 was done. (Like, fans are quick to bring out the knifes if you speak ill of their bond, and due to recent media like the movies and Prime, this probably the most Tails' character has been deeply and widely discussed, but now we're in this weird limbo were people want a more independent and active Tails, but won't let Sonic "let go of his hand" and protect him at all cost. People understand they're partners, but won't grasp they're equals. They cover the other's flaws, they take care of each other. That's since the day they met.) I like a "blue hedgehog takes care of a [smart] baby fox" story as much as the next person, but do you think that said baby fox never tried to pull his own weight? Never tried to return the favor to this blue hedgehog; who respects his skills [and his tails] and comes to him when he can't figure something out or the best and quickest solution? That they don't think twice on throwing themselves in danger for one another? That's what's so fun about this dynamic. It evolves, but it's ultimately the same premise.

TL:DR Depending on how fanon Tails is written more or often not gives away what kind of Sonic to expect and the dynamic that comes with it. Am I seeing two individuals with their own thoughts and beliefs bounce off each other? Or is one being heavily guided by a figurative leash by the other? ( I'm scared depending on how Nine's story ends, if it's going to cause yet another shift of how Tails gets looked and portrayed and his relationship with Sonic. Cause I'm still seeing some miss the point on why Nine is the way he is and is not a more "complete/developed" Tails. Latching on to him for stuff Tails has done before in games and other adaptions. {And I'm speaking as a Nine fan. Yeah, he's more independent and self-sufficient, but not a healthy way.})

Sigh

I don't even have anything to add, but I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed this weird two-way thing with Tails. Fans want him to get character development and be independent, because it's good for his character arc, and this is what makes sense, but in their hearts what they really want is for Tails to be the little baby brother that Sonic tucks in every night and gives him funny kisses and checks for monsters under his bed; who exists solely to show how great of a big brother Sonic is, sacrificing so much of his freedom and taking on so much responsibility to raise a child, can you believe this? (Not saying you can't be independent and still get affection and help from your family, note the word "solely") (And if Sonic doesn't need to keep an eye on Tails because Tails is such a helpless baby, then it's because if he's left without supervision for 5 seconds, he starts killing people and destroying cities and Sonic needs to keep him in check)

And yeah, I get it, fandom, we're all having fun, I also think jokes about Tails being a little unhinged are funny, and I enjoy the brotherly fluff between Sonic and Tails, but I wish it wasn't all that he got reduced to (Especially in fics where the focus is one Sonic + some other character who isn't Tails. If it's a shipping fic there's often a plot where Sonic's partner would have to babysit Tails (never mind he lives by himself in canon) and bond with him, to kind of "get approval from Sonic's family".) But it's hard to talk about these kinds of things. Like when you criticize the way people portray characters in a ship, you could say "don't reduce them to just a generic love interest, remember that they're a character with a full personality also", and people understand what you mean, but how could you say "don't reduce this character to just a little brother type"? They are brothers after all, we just want to make them act like real brothers do/s

Yep, I've seen way to many people being like "Nine is what I always wanted Tails to be". And it's like. Ok. So you just hate Tails then. Let me guess, is Shadow your favourite character? I also like Nine, he's a great character, probably the best written one in the show, but he's not "cool", he doesn't represent "Tails reaching his full potential" or anything like that. He's deeply hurt and kind of pitiful honestly. Tails becoming more like him would be a regression if anything because he'd already overcome a similar (maybe just not as... prolonged) situation before. But I don't think this is what the show is building up to, Tails (in the show) is portrayed to be a pretty competent person already, just the one who is willing to put aside his issues because he doesn't want to risk creating any kind of conflict in his relationship with Sonic (in contrast to Nine who doesn't have as much history with Sonic and is willing to tell him exactly when and how he fucks up), and it's Sonic who needs to change his attitude. But we'll see how it goes. (I wouldn't want their relationship to turn into "long-suffering Tails holds his dumbass older brother on a child leash otherwise he'll run off and do something stupid" in popular conciousness either)

[sweetescapeartist]

SONIC FRONTIERS

Before I'm a DB fan, I was a Sonic fan. And Sonic The Hedgehog still important to me but now I want to see what direction the games could be headed. So heres a unorganized review of what I thought from watching the cutscenes.

Watched the cutscenes for Sonic Frontiers. I think its a good story. The problem is that it felt stretched out because SEGA wanted to stretch out the gameplay and story. A shorter story would've been better. Sonic Team was a bit over ambitious and did too much. Which isn't a bad thing if they didnt always try to release games within a holiday season. It makes them rush some things.

°spoilers°

As for the characters? Pretty good. Gonna take more for me to get fully on board from the terrible character interpretations from 2010 to 2017.

Sonic was cool again. Just need to better balance the jokes with this more serious tone. Some of his attacks were stupid tho. Like giant fists and giant feet when Duper Sonic? Just no.

Amy was great. Not obsessed with Sonic but obviously likes him still. Her compassion is handled well.

Knuckles was great. Really liked what they did with him. Showed his compassionate side as he has opened up to his friends more. And the fact that he wants to go on his own adventures is great. Looks like we'll be getting a globe trotting, treasure hunting Enchidna! And no more butt of the joke either. 🙏

Tails? Thank you Sonic Frontiers! They saw the mistake that was the terrible writing of Forces. But instead of pretending it didnt happen, they correct it masterfully. I also love the references to Dark Gia and other previous adventures Tails was on with Sonic. And the Tails development is something we already saw before, but since the 2010 games ruined Tails' character, he had to become who he was from Adventure 1 to Unleashed. So hopefully we get to see him.become a hero in his own right.

Eggman? I really enjoyed his story. The relationship he has with Sage is great. And idk if anyone else has said this yet, but this felt like Gerald Robotnik and his granddaughter, Maria. But instead of becoming a mad scientist after having his beloved granddaughter taken from him, Eggman has become kinder due to Sage whom he views as his daughter. And when she "died" he managed to bring her back in a post credits scene. Never thought there would be character development for Dr. Eggman. And for it to be that he might become who his grandfather once was? Man, that's just smart.

Cant wait to see where their story leads them with Ian writing for them. Felt like a continuiation of Unleashed a bit.

The story was interesting too. The ancient race were the Kocos who once held the Chaos Emeralds. And they're aliens I believe. Their whole cyber space thing makes sense at the end. And the fact that they look like tall versions of Chaos is cool too. Because Chaos is a Chao that absorbed a lot of energy from the Master Emerald.

Character interractions are good too. Im interested in what Sonic Team does in the future.

But the gameplay? Too repetitive. This is part of the overambitiousness comes in. Why give Sonic certain combat moves? And why not have him make use of the spindash and homing attack more? Like when Sonic parries an attack, he should do it by getting into a ball, not swatting it away with his hand. Knuckles would do that because thats where his strength comes in to play.

And boss battles were very repeditive and too long. Could have been better with better quick time events where you press multiple buttons instead of 1 singlular button.

Thats it. Time to see what Sonic Team does next. Kinda hopeful bht also very cautious.

[galsgeneration]

What do u love abt sonadow? :oc

Oh, there are quite a few things I love about them! Sonic and Shadow's canon dynamic is fascinating in so many levels, since their interactions mostly leave something unsaid or not acknowledged directly - the subtlety is the main point for me. I believe another point that made me like and see them as a cool and interesting pairing in the first place is how important their rivalry - in every aspects of life - is and means to them. It pushes them to do better in every way and help them learn/unlearn things about themselves, such as limits and beliefs, even as friends or foes depending on the circumstances.

Their lifestyles are different albeit similar, considering both of them value freedom and act by their own rules, not following orders or what's morally correct. It all depends on their principles (for Sonic) and goals (for Shadow), yet these two lines also can blur. Moreover, their communication through actions (from the games to recent comics) and gazes (like in Sonic X for example) is something I love to see explored within their dynamic, knowing how sometimes they understand each other in a sense, though not always agree with the other's ways of handling a certain situation they're in/a part of.

This idea is also tied to how they don't seek each other actively for anything, but for some reason, whenever they end up crossing paths again, Sonic and Shadow tend to stick together for a bit. Whether for the sake of the world or to basically challenge each other, they do have some fun in their own little ways. It's a very unconventional, impersonal yet meaningful dynamic and that's exactly why I love it.

SEGA JP was right to describe it as a rare, up-close and personal relationship. It really doesn't fall under a common pattern or can be compared to any other dynamics, since the details we get to see are very much them if you look closely and connect to past events/interactions. There's also a little care between them, not in the romantic sense, but they do appreciate each other's "existence" and input/assistance in a few moments.

Another point I absolutely enjoy is how whenever "they're off in their own little world" (Knuckles' words) at times, other people or main conflicts don't seem to matter until they're done with their competition. Sonic also tends to distract Shadow a lot from his goals, which is amazing and hilarious since his cold-hearted rival is very strict when fulfilling those. He has this hidden respect for Shadow (much like the other does), even when their opinions clash. He doesn't judge him when he gets to understand what and why he's doing what he does - even showing eventual trust (such as in Sonic Battle). Still, he is suspicious of him, and it's something fun to point out, because in the end, Shadow's methods tend to prove him wrong most of the time (like shown in Sonic Forces, Team Sonic Racing and the recent Sonic x Shadow Channel story).

Shadow barely cares for what Sonic has to say about him and vice-versa, though they can rile each other up depending on the words they use or the situation at hand. They have a slight effect on each other and you can see that a lot from Shadow's side. He also likes to show Sonic how worthy of an opponent he is, and that's another point to pay attention to, because he doesn't do that to anyone else. This is why I love them, no matter the setting - as potential lovers or simply two guys being dudes, never excluding their rivalry. Their dynamic would remain the same in both cases, since their unusual interactions are what makes them so special to me!

[cattyanon]

Well shit guess I gotta talk about the AUs now.

Okay, so ones a Werehog AU (less developed) and an ‘exe’ inspired character based on a concept I found neat.

Since I don’t got much on it since it’s more recent I’ll start with the Werehog AU. 

So the premise is that after Chip seals Dark Gaia away and gives Sonic the bracelet it basically becomes an inhibitor to his Werehog form.

Ya see, I never really liked the fact that Dark Gaia, even though it does make sense, just took all the Dark Gaia energy outta Sonic. In this case I’d like to imagine that after spending so much time trapped inside Sonic the Dark Gaia energy bonds to him. 

So basically the bracelet keeps him from turning into the Werehog but I also would like to think he’s still got a few quirks even with the bracelet. Like him having longer fangs and a longer tail. He’s probably also slightly poofier which is unnoticeable until you touch him and since Sonic isn’t a touchy person nobody notices except maybe Amy. Plus his quills are slightly darker.

The ‘story’ would start off with Eggman accidentally breaking it. It probably happens in the afternoon which makes Sonic more prone to lashing out. Which he then proceeds to do since Eggman broke his only keepsake of Chip.

Anyways this makes things extremely harder on Sonic, the main issue being a Werehog 24/7. Then there’s also the fact that he’s more prone to sleeping during the day than at night which is a problem since literally everybody else is awake during the day. This kinda fucks with his sleep cycle as he tries to stay awake during a time where his body thinks he should be asleep.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _

Second AU is inspired by the FNF Below the Depths mod. I thought the eternally drowning thing was such a cool concept and since my brain refuses to give me an original idea I’m stuck with being inspired instead.

For those who don’t know about the mod, basically in the first game while going through one of the underwater zones Sonic manages to get himself stuck in one of the giant spike ball traps and sinks to the bottom. Due to... something... he keeps reviving every time he drowns. The catch is that when he revives he gets to drown again. Also after being stuck so long Sonic starts forgetting things. TL;DR It’s basically a never ending cycle of Sonic drowning with some eventual memory loss.

I mostly just took the “eternally drowning” and “Starts losing his memories” concept and expanded on it.

So, during Sonic Forces when Sonic is captured he gets tortured almost every day by Infinte by using the Phantom Ruby. At some points a few loss of limbs happen. First a leg, to hinder his running. Then some other time he cut off one of Sonic’s arms and half of one of his ears.

Eventually Eggman decides that it’d be best to get rid Sonic altogether instead of risking something happening. So then, what better way to off your worst enemy then by one thing they fear the most? Water!

So Eggman proceeds to chain up Sonic in a special chamber and waits for him to wake up. When he does, Eggman explains the situation and what he’s about to do. At first Sonic doesn’t believe him, but the more the water fills up the less confident he becomes that Eggman is bluffing.

Eventually, when Eggmsn confirms that Sonic is dead, he leaves the room and turns out the light. Then he proceeded to just... kinda forget about Sonic being there due to being so focused on winning the war. Aka he has no idea what happens with Sonic (which I will get to).

Anyways, they eventually win the war thanks to Silver’s interference. Shortly after Silver leaves they go on a search for Sonic. The thing is, they have no clue the place Sonic is trapped in even exists due to it being in space. Plus Eggman never really mentions it even in his database.

So despite everybody’s best efforts they just can’t find Sonic. Years go by with no sign of Sonic and most presume he’s dead. Tails still has a small flicker of hope that somehow Sonic is still alive.

Now here comes the juicy part...

One day, Shadow is tasked by Gun to investigate Eggman bases. Especially the super obscure one they managed to find out about not too long ago.

You can probably see where this is going but eventually Shadow stumbles upon the room Sonic is in. At first he thinks he might be imagining it but once he manages to turn on the lights in the room it’s painfully clear it’s Sonic.

Shadow, assuming this is Sonic’s corpse, decides to take him back to Earth for a proper burial. Imagine his surprise that not long after freeing Sonic he’s somehow still alive. This is where the story really takes off.

I bet at this point you’re going “But how is he still alive?” and the answer is Chaos Energy. Despite after so long his Chaos Energy managed to barely keep him alive. Every time he’d drown the Chaos Energy would basically revive him again and again.

Much to Sonic’s dismay, this gives him an affinity for water that he had no idea about until sometime after Shadow rescues him. One of these things include water limbs that replace what was torn off him.

Despite this fact, Sonic still hates it. Mostly because it reminds him of what happened.

I kinda wanna make a fic about it. Though I’m not sure what the end goal of the fic would be. Maybe Sonic recovering? Yeah let’s go with that.

[aawesomepenguin]

SONIC RANGERS, EVERYTHING WE KNOW ABOUT IT, LINK FOR ALL SOURCES AT THE END

Ok, the time has come. I spent my entire day doing some searches on the 4chan website, picking and trying to find every nugget of information I could find that I was 100% sure it was connected to Sonic Rangers.

I’ll get this right out of the gate: I’m 95% sure the next main Sonic game will be open world, and what will follow is all my evidence towards it. It’ll be uncharted territory for the Sonic franchise, and we’ll need to see how it pays off.

Also, spoilers for Sonic Rangers, but kind of broad ones, so in my opinion, your experience wouldn’t be ruined if you read all of this. But if you’re one of those that want to go 100% blind, then I think the time to jump off this ship is now.

Here we go.

As it turns out, as I did some digging of my own, and thanks to other observant people, I can confirm that the “Sonic Rangers” name has been circulating on the Internet way, WAY before the accidental leak revealed on May 27th. I will show an entire timeline of these discoveries, and how they connect.

But okay, before we dive in, a general vision of Sonic Rangers: the game will take a brand new approach with the character, placing Sonic in an open world for him to explore. Where through his speed, he’ll do platforming challenges, do puzzles, fight against badniks, etc. When fighting against enemies, the player gains XP, that can be used to give Sonic different abilities. Spread through this world are bosses, where after you defeat them, Sonic obtains orbs, and when enough of them are gathered, Sonic can enter Special Stages, that are structured like a Sonic Generations/Sonic Unleashed boost level. When you complete them, you get a Chaos Emerald.

Ok, now let’s go to the 4chan leaks. From what I can tell, SEGA has been inviting different test groups to testplay their next main Sonic game, under a strict NDA. After it, SEGA collects feedback from the testers. I can’t exactly pinpoint when SEGA began to do these tests, but if I had to guess, it has been around as early as March 2020.

1st Occurrence

In July 2020, another fake leak claiming to be the 30th anniversary game showed up on 4chan, but then, as an answer to it, a person that has really played a test version of the next main Sonic game called the fake leaker out. The person that has put their hands on the next main Sonic game had the following to say:

“I playtested the game back in march and played it for an hour. There were no levels just an overworld. You’re full of s***.”

In another post, the person that got their hands on the testing version of the next main Sonic game, had the following to say:

“It was called Sonic Rangers when I played it.”

1st Occurrence analysis

I believe that the person that played the test version of Sonic Rangers has erroneously interpreted the open world as an overworld, which makes sense. Sonic Rangers name gets dropped for the first time.

2nd Occurrence

In August of 2020, another person that played a test version of Sonic Rangers, stated the following about the next title on the Sonic series:

“It’s not an adventure remake. I playtested it. They ARE working on something, but if they take feedback me and the other panelists gave them, SEGA might change quite a bit from what I ended up playing.

Open World

Set on a gloomy, grassy, uninhabited island dotted with ruins.

Big BOTW influence, little korok-like puzzles scattered everywhere.

Robot/alien bosses scattered throughout the island, defeat them and you get a Chaos Emerald.

Get all Chaos Emeralds and you gain entrance to the final boss area, a foggy forest you couldn’t enter before.

No major characters appeared aside from Sonic.

No story, just dumped in.

Turn Super Sonic to fight the boss, he’s a giant colossus-like entity that you climb, hit his weak points.

These could all be changed because I played a couple of months ago and there still hasn’t been any reveal, so I assume they might be reworking a lot.”

2nd Occurrence analysis

As you can see, in this version, some of the elements that were talked about in the most famous leak aren’t present, some missing elements were added later, but the basic was already present and in place. Sonic can travel through an open world, doing puzzles, defeating badniks and fighting against bosses, to then fight against a final boss as Super Sonic. 

The most interesting thing is how the person that leaked these details claimed that they played it “a couple of months ago”, meaning that this version could take place after the build shown in the first occurrence. Some things have changed since then.

Another cool thing that I wanted to point out was that this build uses placeholder from previous Sonic games. During the final boss, the theme for the first boss fight against Infinite from Sonic Forces is used.

3rd Occurrence

In January of 2021, another anonymous 4chan user talked about Sonic rangers, once again mentioning the name “Sonic Rangers.” As their version is pretty edgy, and negative because Sonic Negativism gets clicks, I’m going to present it in a unbiased manner, and be direct to the point on what they said.

Sonic Rangers, around the end of 2020, was presented once more to a select group of people, two demos were shown. The first one allows exploration of the open world under a time limit of twenty minutes, and another demo that has an apparent Final Boss battle.

Open world is filled with small enemies, puzzles, and platforming challenges.

Completing puzzles, challenges and defeating badniks gives XP to the player as a reward, that can be used to unlock abilities for Sonic.

Among the abilities that Sonic can unlock, there is the “spincycle”, where after pressing the Y button, Sonic begins to create a line behind him, and if the player creates a circle-ish shape around the enemy or a group of enemies, Sonic attacks all the enemies that were “marked” within the spincycle line.

Homing Attack that can target multiple enemies at once, from Sonic Lost World, is back.

There are lots of bosses spread through the open world, when they are defeated, Sonic gets some “orbs”.

If the player gets enough orbs, he can access the “Cyberspace”, essentially this game’s special stage.

The cyberspace levels are like the boost levels in Sonic Generations.

When beating a cyberspace level within a certain amount of time, the player obtains a Chaos Emerald.

New voice clips for Roger Craig Smith were used.

Some new music was made for this build.

In regards to the demo where the player faces the final boss:

After reuniting all the Chaos Emeralds, Sonic can go through a dense fog that the player couldn’t access before in the open world.

A Giant Tree Robot is the apparent final boss.

Fly as Super Sonic using the spincycle and other abilities that were unlocked throughout the game to help defeat the final boss.

Can’t take damage, on a timer of rings. A Ghost girl refills the player’s ring count multiple times.

Demo ended after defeating the boss.

3rd Occurrence analysis

As you can see, this version polished even further the concepts that were talked about in the second occurrence. Instead of getting Chaos Emeralds after defeating a boss, Sonic gains orbs, where after this Sonic has to go after EVEN more bosses to get more orbs. With these orbs, the player can access a Special Stage, named Cyberspace, where you’ll be able to play a more traditional like Sonic game, to get the Chaos Emeralds.

This certainly helps the game longer, which is a plus for me. We’ll probably have seven boost levels, with them being treated like a Special Stage. They also added a XP system, and the main gimmick of this game, the spincycle, was shown in the trailer for Sonic Central.

Sonic will keep building up abilities, which is something I believe the player will be able to use them as different strategies on how to beat different types of bosses.

4th Occurrence

Sonic Central takes place, with a trailer for a new Sonic game at the end. Sonic is running through a forest, and then he begins to glow blue, creating a pixel effect, with a line following him. Sonic then runs in a circle with this new ability that makes him glow blue, and then exits screen.

4th Occurrence analysis

With the context we’ve piled up from previous occurrences, you can put some pieces together. Sonic is clearly activating a spincycle, the main gimmick for this new game, just like how it was said in the January 2021 leak. And just like how the leaker said, Sonic formed a circle-ish shape with this ability in the teaser trailer. Sonic creates a blue energy, creating a line behind him, allowing him to make patterns with it, maybe creating a shape that could surround his enemies?

5th Occurrence

Dataminers and modders are able to get their hands on the 4K trailer for the new Sonic game, finding out that the name of the game is, Sonic Rangers.

5th Occurrence analysis

It perfectly fits with what was stated previously in 4chan threads, specifically, the one from July 2020 and the one from January 2021. Helping give the 4Chan leaks even more credit.

6th Occurrence

SEGA, while sending out press kits to news websites, ends up slipping out the name for their next main Sonic game, Sonic Rangers.

"Announcing new console experiences, Sonic Colors: Ultimate and Sonic Rangers, further details on Netflix's Sonic Prime, mobile news, musical events and much more!"

-SEGA

It was an accident, and SEGA stated they sent an erroneous version, and when pressed about the Sonic Rangers name, it didn’t dwell into it any further.

6th Occurrence analysis

Coming straight from SEGA’s mouth, the name for the next main Sonic game is gonna be Sonic Rangers. This fits a lot with the rumours that came from 4chan from July 2020 and January 2021, making it EVEN MORE likely that the next main Sonic game is gonna be an open world game.

Conclusion

And that’s where we’re at now in terms of Sonic Rangers news. In my opinion, I’m 95% certain that these leaks are legit. Keep in mind that after the Sonic Rangers name came to light, 1001 other rumours were created, but these I have my doubts, since they now have a sturdy base, they can make up more stuff to go along with it.

My opinion: I’m particularly excited for this next main game. Sonic Rangers deals with uncharted territory for the Sonic series, and I feel like it could be very fun. But of course, I’m a guy that’s mostly chill and cool with most Sonic media out there, so form your own opinions.

Anyway...

HYPE FOR SONIC RANGERS!

Source 1, Source 2, Source 3, Source 4, Source 5 and Source 6.