#Jon is probably dead and in need of a resurrection

[agentrouka-blog]

Hmm just thinking about your resurrection theory, which I also subscribe to, that Jon’s physical body will essentially be put on ice 🧊 and his mind will be in Ghost, until a time when he can return to that body. I remember I wrote a little meta about how this kind of connects to the Old Norse concept of a ‘hamr’ vs a ‘hugr’. In The Children of Ash and Elm, Neil Price writes:

‘If you met a Viking-Age Scandinavian in the street, you would have seen their hamr—her or his ‘shell’ or ‘shape’—essentially what for us is the body. Conceived as a container for other aspects of the person, the hamr was the physical manifestation of what somebody was, but, crucially, it could alter. This is where the concept of shape-changing comes from, in the sense that the actual structures of the body were believed to flow and shift. But this was not true for everyone, only for the gifted (or, perhaps, the cursed). Most people stayed as they appeared, but some, in special circumstances—on certain nights, when stressed or frightened, in anger, or at times of extreme relaxation—could become something else.

[...]

Inside the ‘shape’ of a person was the second part of their being, the hugr, for which no modern translation really suffices. Combining elements of personality, temperament, character, and especially mind, the hugr was who someone really was, the absolute essence of you, free of all artifice or surface affect. It is the closest thing the Vikings had to the independent soul found in later world faiths, because it could leave the physical body behind.’

But now I’m wondering (and maybe I need to address this in the ch.2 of my current fic)… if we agree that Jon doesn’t die, but is instead in a similar state to Bran post fall… how does this affect his position as a black brother? Only death can release you. Does his walking away from that maybe hinge on others at least believing he died and rose again? I mean, it would be pretty nuts if there was this technicality of oh well, yesss we did attempt to murder you, buttt since that didn’t work you’re still obliged to stick around at the Wall, sorry mate 🤷‍♀️ in that case, it would make sense to ‘oathbreak’ due to the hypocrisy. What are you thoughts on how others might view Jon’s return to his body (his ‘hamr’ even), and how this affects his position in the Night’s Watch?

Cappy x

Me, when cappy talks Norse things:

I think you're right that it's probably going to involve at least some people believing Jon rose from the literal dead, with some further mix of a) taking advantage of that belief, and/or b) some precedent-setting potential move to expel him. It used to be that the kingsguard serve for life, after all. And yet we have Barry and Sandy walking out (or being made to) and Tywin was quick to try and use the precedent to make Jaime follow suit. Unsuccessfully.

And Jon was never sent to the Wall, he volunteered. I suspect, a Watch desire to have Jon's hugr gone will match a Jon desire to haul his hamr and hugr off the premises, and suddenly Resurrection Technicalities will seem very possible.

[daenerysoftarth]

I know it’s unlikely considering the plot ramifications and all, but I like the idea of Ghost being deaf considering that he’s an albino direwolf (and albinism has a high comorbidity rate with hearing issues) and he never makes noise. deaf animals usually still make noise even if they don’t realize that they’re making noise, but I don’t think it’s uncommon either for them to be rather quiet because they simply can’t hear noises, therefore do not mimic them

and imagine if after Jon was resurrected, if he became deaf like Ghost (building on the theory that Jon looks like Ghost when he comes back w white hair and red eyes) or otherwise HoH. I know it probably wouldn’t work for Jon’s position in the story as a military commander who is presumably going to lead armies against the dead, and you need hearing in battle…. but given that grrm focuses so heavily on themes of disability and how it’s treated internally by those who are disabled and externally by how society responds to disabled people, then I’m not ruling it out entirely

having your classic stoic fantasy protagonist become disabled halfway through the series would be a pretty significant trope deviation

[the-king-andthe-lionheart]

not sure how much merit this has but lady stoneheart dying to protect arya would be inline with her characteristics

Hello @ifordawn !

It definitely would! I also think it would be rather poetic. Catelyn in life didn't consider Arya good enough in her eyes (which is really something considering Catelyn was still playing around outside in the dirt at the age of 12). Catelyn in life thought all of her children were dead or completely lost to her (Sansa being a Lannister now). Catelyn in life felt guilty for not being there for her children when they supposedly died. Catelyn in life watching her "last" child dying before her eyes and her being helpless to stop it. So with her now being undead I think it's much more interesting if she is still Catelyn but a Catelyn who is obsessed with vengeance and who no longer distinguishes between black and white when it comes to who she regards as her enemies. I think it would be a lot more interesting and heartbreaking if LSH isn't a complete monster that Arya has to put down.

Like I said on other posts, I think it would be really unnecessarily cruel and pointless to have Arya playing a part in Catelyn's resurrection only for Arya to have to kill her, even if Catelyn asks. For one, I don't believe Arya could do this, and for two, I think her doing this would destroy her and Arya would no longer be Arya anymore. And considering this isn't a grimdark series and Arya is a key player, I highly doubt GRRM would do this. He explores darkness, yes, and realism, but I don't think he'd destroy one of his favorite characters like this. Honestly I think Arya killing Catelyn is beyond OOC, but it's such a popular theory that so many people in fandom consider it to be fact without actually evaluating if this is something Arya is even capable of doing, and what it would actually mean to Arya as a character if she actually was able to do this.

This theory of course isn't impossible, Arya does have themes of mercy and mercy killing, but that doesn't automatically mean she's going to kill her mother because suffice it to say even if LSH is a one note monster, it will still be Catelyn's face she'll be looking into if she kills her. There also seems to be this like consensus that LSH must be killed because she's undead and looks undead, but if that's the case, then what's the consensus for Jon? He's going to look dead as well when he's resurrected. The side of his neck was actually slit, and from how it was described I think his artery was nicked. And Jon will probably come back changed as well, darker, and more feral. So does this mean someone needs to kill Jon as well?

No, I think it's much more interesting and satisfying if Arya reunites with Catelyn when she returns to Westeros, and while Catelyn is indeed a lot darker, Arya still glimpses her mother enough to still consider LSH her mother. I think it would be interesting if Catelyn finally makes Arya feel more accepted by her mother if Catelyn does declare Arya to be QitN with Robb's crown and learning that Catelyn has been searching for her. I think it would be interesting to see Catelyn learn that Rickon is alive, and later Bran, and realizes she didn't completely fail. I think it would be much more interesting to see Catelyn sacrifice herself for Arya. Catelyn failed to save Robb, but this time Catelyn succeeds to save Arya, the child she was the most hard on.

Imagine what it would be like for Arya to finally feel accepted and loved by her mother, even while noticing that her mother is a lot darker and harsher than you remember. Imagine Arya seeing Catelyn doing things she doesn't necessarily agree with and grappling if she should do something, but can never make herself to anything because she still sees her mother in there. Like Arya can still have this story arc with her mother while going through the "heart in conflict" and never going through with it. Honestly this to me is a lot more interesting than Arya just killing LSH in a mercy killing. Not only would it complete Catelyn's arc in a poetic way, but it would mean a lot of development for Arya as well. Not only could she fully witness the harsh realities of vengeance further than ever before, something that is a good lesson when it comes to leading and striding towards justice, but I think it could help Arya's insecurity and self-acceptance, if she is chosen by her mother to be QitN, even if it's something Arya isn't too thrilled with.

I have nothing against anyone believing in this theory that Arya will give LSH mercy, but I do think people need to question what Arya killing Catelyn could serve to her story when it comes to this theory. What would she have gained? Learned? Because suffice it to say, that nothing decent or good would come out of it IMO. I think it would only be a way for GRRM to not only stall her growth but to give her an unsatisfying ending as well. When I've contemplated the show ending, I've asked myself what exactly could cause Arya to just leave her family and society at the end of the story (which I don't believe will happen at all because the show made no sense at all) and the first thing I thought of that could begin that derailment of character is her having to kill her own mother, followed by the further trauma she'll face in the War for the Dawn where she will more than likely lose more people. I definitely could be wrong, but like I said, I think killing her mother would destroy Arya.

Now I do have one plausible theory in which Arya might have to kill LSH, and that's only if LSH is so awful that she becomes unrecognizable to Arya over time after reuniting. She's still somewhat her mother, but in most ways she's a stranger. So I actually have a thought out scenario for how this might happen and it goes like this: Rickon is found and made KitN in TWOW with Jon as his regent, but then Rickon dies, Jon becomes KitN, and this gets back to LSH who wrongly thinks Jon killed Rickon. She then declares Arya QitN, and then declares as Arya's regent that they are going to kill Jon and nothing Arya can say or do can change that, except for Arya killing LSH to protect someone she loves. Honestly this or something similar is the only way I could see Arya killing LSH and not being mentally destroyed at the end of it all, but even if this happened or something similar does it will have big negative effects on her, and honestly, while TWOW is supposed to be the darkest book, I still think it's going to have a lot of good character growth in it, and I still can't see why GRRM would have Arya kill her own mother after playing a part in her resurrection. Like I see nothing that can really be learned here because while Arya may have played a role by finding the body, it's not like Arya was the one to resurrect her and needs a lesson about how resurrecting people is bad. Maybe I'm just missing some crucial lesson Arya can learn with this? Or how this could contribute to her character arc in a non self-destructive way? I don't know.

So yeah, I just think it's a lot more interesting and satisfying on both their ends if Arya doesn't kill LSH and LSH sacrifices her life for Arya specifically.

Not to mention, I once read GRRM saying that LSH is going to be a really important character going forward which makes me think she's lasting beyond TWOW. And it's one of the main reasons I started speculating and really thinking of this theory in depth in the first place, especially considering my own theories that Arya will be back in the Riverlands 50-65% through her TWOW arc. But my own theories combined with that quote, making me rethink this theory, made me actually question what that theory could do to Arya emotionally and on a character level within the narrative and made me realize how bad this could be for Arya if this theory is indeed true. :(

[alaynestcnes]

how do you think the series is going to end? obviously jonsa ;) but do you think it'll be similar to the show?

I go backwards and forwards tbh. I do feel like where most of the characters ended up in the show is probably a good indicator for their book ending (I think D&D got told the broad strokes of GRRMs ending but they just got too turned around w what they wanted/thought would make good TV).

More under the cut bc I rambled on for longer than I thought I would 😵‍💫

I do think Jonsa will be canon in some capacity and to me there’s only really two realistic routes;

1. Tragic star-crossed lovers who are tortured by their forbidden feelings (a la the original outline). Honestly if it goes this way I can see their romance being a subplot that isn’t entirely focussed on tbh. GRRM is a romantic but it’s usually subtle - look at Ned/Cat, Jaimie/Brienne. Even with Robb/Jeyne, it was bare bones. These are definitely love stories, but the love is so truthfully woven into the workings of the narrative that it’s barely a plot point itself. Jon and Sansa will have the same, where it’s there and unspoken and painful and probably motivates some of their decisions, but it’s not some epic Romeo and Juliet thing that consumes them. If they do have this plot where they have feelings, I doubt they’ll end up together (I don’t think we can have both). It’ll probably end like the show with everything unspoken/unresolved with Jon exiled or dead and Sansa on the throne.

2. Ned/Cat 2.0 political marriage. I generally lean more in this direction. Jon and Sansa are both political characters and their plots/desires are leading them to Winterfell. They are both positioned to be leaders of the North - it makes sense that it would be together. I think there will be Northern conspiracies that will lead to a politically fractured North with the various Starks becoming figureheads for the different remaining houses vying for power (Manderly wanting Rickon on the Northern throne, Petyr/the Vale wanting Sansa, and miscellaneous others wanting the newly resurrected Jon). Rickon will probably die (I hate it but I can’t see another way for him 😭), his followers split between Jon and Sansa’s camps. Targ reveal will happen, which will lessen Jon’s claim. But he’s a god-like figure after his resurrection so he’ll still have followers and he’ll know he needs the power of the entire united North to fight the WW. Makes sense that some advisors would suggest a marriage instead of tearing the North apart, especially with Jon wanting to go off to face the WW threat immediately. Sansa will want peace and she’ll see sense in marrying a man she knows (who I’m sure LF (if he’s alive atp) will imply that Jon will accidentally die in the war anyway and leave it all to Sansa). So they get married to unite the North, despite being essentially strangers atp. As above, I don’t think we’ll get much of an actual love story, but they are suited to each other and I think by the end of the series we’ll come very full circle with Ned/Cat ‘love didn’t just happen, we built it’. And ofc with the final book being A Dream of Spring (i.e rebirth, new life, hope) I’m betting on a Stark baby.

Idk about the other characters ngl I don’t spend half as much time theorising on them 🙃

Jon will likely seek out Dany to face the WWs. I think it’ll be pretty similar to the show where she’ll be split between wanting to help and wanting to take KL. Maybe a bit of the politcal!Jon theory here to convince her (we do need that betrayal for love, which I 100% believe is Jon - maybe with him knowing the war/their plan will likely be her doom but he goes through with it to protect the North). Ultimately, I think she’ll die fighting the WWs in like an epic sacrifice. BUT while she dies, at least one of her dragons will survive. Which means that while Dany saved the world, she also doomed them to another terrible fate - having a grown, enraged, untamed dragon loose upon the world with the only woman able to control them gone. So, even though the WW will be defeated, in the remaining/following book there’s still a Big Bad to cause drama. I like the idea of Dany’s end being conflicting - she dies a true hero but also her great act is her worst act and has long lasting consequences for the survivors.

Cersei will probably try to capture Drogon in her greed for power and in doing so causes KL to burn (Drogon’s fire + all that hidden wildfire). This is actually based on nothing but vibes haha but I like her end being caused by her own hand and greed, reaching for more when she could have lived with the power she already had. I’m choosing to ignore the Valonquar bc idc I’m not GRRM.

Bran King of Westeros bc why not.

Arya’s ending has me lost. I think she def meets Lady Stoneheart and it will make her question her own pursuit for revenge. I don’t think Arya’s story is meant to end with her becoming a heartless professional assassin dedicating her life to killing the enemies of her family; she is so much more than that. Seeing LSH will make her witness the horror of being entirely consumed by hate and bloodshed. She’ll kill LSH out of mercy and it will also symbolise her putting to rest her own anger and desire for revenge. Idk where she’ll finally end up tho so she gets a wildcard and can do whatever she wants.

Andddd all of this is subject to change on any given day. I’m just rocking w whatever feels right atp bc god knows we’re never seeing Winds.

[snowsandstones]

How do you think Jon and Sansa will reunite in the books?

it’s a good question! there’s a lot of pieces to it and a lot of theories on each piece: Where? As Sansa or Alayne? Before or after Littlefingers death? Before or after Jon’s resurrection? Etc etc.

this post breaks down two prophecies relevant to this: the girl in grey and slaying a giant and textual evidence that suggests sansa is the center of both, so will kill littlefinger in the eyrie and then flee to castle black. maybe like the show she will run into brienne and pod on the way and take them into her service, in the books she’s also due to meet sam at some point since all the other starks have. in this case, she’d likely be reuniting with him as sansa. and in this case maybe jeyne learns that jon is dead when she arrives so she turns back? so that’s one possibility.

personally, despite that text evidence I would love to see littlefinger live a little longer and I mean, maybe he’ll die in the eyrie later? maybe it does mean winterfell after all? ( I also would love for lady stoneheart to be the one who kills him, which I can elaborate on if you want. )

I also think that it is possible the girl in grey is jeyne after all, even if that’s the more obvious answer. because the show morphed their arcs it’s hard to tell where exactly they diverge again (and of course what will even be the same from screen to book).

but the reuniting the north/stark restoration/rebuilding winterfell arc will happen in some fashion and that’s definitely solidly sansa. so here’s my take on how the books could hit those key beats from seasons six and seven in a way that aligns with book canon:

>everyone is banking on sickly little Sweetrobin to die which means in grrm terms he almost certainly won’t

>Harry on the other hand…. idk. some shit is gonna happen where Alayne is not betrothed/married for very long but definitely after she’s at least betrothed?

>Jon will probably live on as ghost for a bit, who knows what he’ll get up to then. and then be resurrected. but still quit the nights watch, and at some point be united with davos who clues him into the whole rickon being alive and the quiet northern rebellion manderly is already brewing around the stark heir.

>from his time as lord commander Jon will know the Eyrie has plenty of food and supplies that the north needs, maybe he will be the one to go to the Eyrie. Regardless, if he does himself or not I think someone will have to treat with Littlefinger and bring them into the fold and I can’t see Jon trusting littlefinger much but he has begrudgingly worked with people he hates so

>and also that the thing of the Knights of the Vale winning the battle of the bastards and joining in because Sansa, I’m sure will still happen but that won’t be the twist I think the way it happens will be

>I think from Littlefinger’s perspective, this is what he would orchestrate upon hearing the North’s request: the food, supplies and men of the vale only in exchange for an alliance of wedding “Arya” to Robin after the battle is won and she is widowed, and to ensure they don’t go back on their word like Robb, Jon to Alayne in the meantime. In his mind, he knows Arya isn’t real so he can reveal that whenever it’s convenient and once Sansa has magically reappeared, marry her to Robin instead and at some point dispose of Rickon and Robin so that Sansa now controls the Vale and Winterfell, he can marry her and now they rule the North and the East while Lannisters and Tyrells have all their shit going on and now he has a line to the throne. He, and no one, would yet know that Robb named Jon his heir. And to him, Jon would probably be a great way of getting Sansa physically back in Winterfell and not be risking anything because she’ll know the truth of who they are and couldn’t possibly fall for him/have Jon be a true threat to him.

> with this, then a lot of the stark restoration arc from the show could end up unfolding similarly, and Rickon doesn’t even have to die necessarily. and it resolves the discrepancy that book Jon repeatedly insists winterfell belongs to Sansa. he and Sansa would be ruling together as king and queen. in the script for the winds of winter it literally even draws a parallel to Jon sitting in Ned’s place with Sansa seated beside him how Catelyn was. and there’s also parallels between Jon and Alayne and Jaeherys and Alyssane as well as Jonnel, Rickon and Sansa Stark. Sansa as Queen Alayne would be in a similar boat as Alayne is in the Vale sort of being the stand in Lady and show Sansa, offering counsel to Jon and organizing the maintenance and behind the scenes of the castle.

>and lastly, I think Jon will still leave the North at some point and this is probably where Sansa would reappear

I really think there’s a reason Sansa is Alayne, like having to mentally put herself into this position as a whole new bastard girl to the point that her chapters are renamed and when Jon *literally* comes up, she thinks that Alayne has no brothers. And that GRRM hated the Sansa Bolton arc and said specifically that his Littlefinger never would’ve arranged it. And that Jon literally muses about asking Lysa for help.

And finally, I can elaborate on this elsewhere since this is already really long but I think post resurrection Jon is going to, at least for some time, have some memory confusion that’s also going to play an interesting role here.

[justadram]

Great chapter!

The discussion between Daenerys and Sansa was fantastic! It seems that is to driven by emotion and by her dislike of the Starks and the North, that she isn't able to maintain and develop a cordial relationship with Sansa and i imagine with everyone else from the North. I'm guessing that outside strategy meetings, Dany stays in her own part of the camp, surrounded by Dothraki and Unsullied, right?

And in her talks with Sansa, she also told her that she is barren and that she will need to relay on Jon to provide an heir to the Iron Throne. I'm guessing that Dany's plan after the war, would be to take Jon, Sansa and their child to King's Landing and to be very involved in the raising and education of their child, right?

Also, is Sansa pregnant or has her period stopped coming due to the stress she is under?

It was also nice to see Theon step in and take Sansa from the situation she was in. It was nice to see their conversation and to see that Sansa has started noticing him watching her, as Jon said. Will the two of them talk about that at a later date? Or will Theon stop watching her and move on, once the war is over and he sees that Jon and Sansa do love each other?

I'm quite eager to see them return to Winterfell and to see how Catelyn and Sansa's siblings will react to what happened and how they might treat Jon, considering all that's happened.

Will we also see Jon getting closer with Catelyn, Ned, Robb and the others?

Also, i'm guessing that the Night King will resurrect Viserion and use him on the attack on Winterfell, right?

driven by emotion and by her dislike of the Starks and the North

Her issue with Sansa goes much much beyond some dislike of House Stark. It is distinctly personal. But yes, I'd expect she keeps to people she trusts more so than mixing with Northerners.

Yeah, she needs Jon, her current heir in King's Landing for various reasons and she'd probably want the next in line there too. It's fully where Jon and Sansa expect to end up though. Jon daydreams about a different outcome because he knows that's not possible.

is Sansa pregnant or has her period stopped coming due to the stress she is under

Sansa can't be sure.

Or will Theon stop watching her and move on, once the war is over

That is well beyond the scope of where this narrative will end. :D But Theon is aware they have feelings for each other at this point. He acknowledged it to Sansa, much like Jon pointed Theon's feelings out to Sansa in the previous chapter.

i'm guessing that the Night King will resurrect Viserion and use him on the attack on Winterfell, right?

Rhaegal burned Viserion's dead body! Only one commenter seemingly caught that, but it's there in the battle chapter.

[reginarubie]

I'm reading old asks (to catch up on topics that were already brought up) and I have to agree with the anon who brought up Larys Strong. Sansa x Larys interactions are going to be so fun to read. Battle of wits is on! But besides Larys (and Aemond obviously), I'm very excited to see how Sansa is going to get along with Helaena.

I'd be so funny if Sansa is going to crack the code that Helaena has a gift of prophecy. It would make sense that she would be the one to find out, considering that she's in a completely different environment and would be extra sensitive to what people say or do. She'd probably think to herself: 'Guys, this girl is spitting truth lyrics at y'all left and right and you don't even listen to her.' *shakes her head*

With that being said, I don't see Sansa perceiving Helaena as an 'odd' individual. I mean heck, she saw the Army of the Dead, the Night King, her half-brother/cousin came back to life, her younger sister is an assassin, her younger brother is the Three Eyed Raven/warg, etc. I think it's safe to say that she's pretty immune to strangeness.

Not only Sansa is in a completely different environment so she's gonna be more alert, she also knows how shit is going to go down (our little history nerd) at least in the way history recounts so I wouldn't be surprised if she, who has the fucking Three Eyed Raven as brother would be the first one to understand that Helaena is not only a dragon rider but also had prophetic visions or interpretation of the world around her.

If anything, after she gets over the whole she's a Targaryen queen train of thought, she's going to remember Helaena is a queen who lost virtually everything, children included and she's going to emphasize with her for sure, especially since Helaena did not manage to escape the fate Sansa escaped (marrying a blond prince who is not the exact represetantion of what a prince and king should be and suffering for it) and probably be like “Mine. Mine now. You never deserved her anyway” (wolves be like that at times, look at Arya with Hot Pie and Gendry or Jon with Samwell) especially because gal saw the Others, she saw walking deads, she knows her sister steals faces and kills people and her brother resurrected. What oddity, Helaena in her fragility and oddness is gonna be like a breath of fresh air for her.

So, yeah I think you are totally right, it'd be so in character of Sansa to just crack Helaena's code, also gal has a record for breaking traditions and generation trauma as well as getting somehow everyone to expose their evil plan and secrets before her so that she can later use it to her advantage if needed.

For sure it's going to be interesting!

[jeweled-blue-eyes]

I love your ideas, of Jen “resurrecting” and having an equivalent of “targaryen madness” and stuff, it's so good! So good that now I can't choose between it and my original idea! I'm gonna ramble a bit about my original idea here, hope you don't mind:

In my original idea I wanted to make Obelia fall into chaos— running with the headcanon that Obelia glomped territories resembling East Asia even, Obelia getting too big for its own good and then subsequently imploding (I supposed it'd be an equivalent of War of the Five Kings in asoiaf), and Jen's hand in marriage becomes like a McGuffin everyone wants because of her claim to the throne, just like how the Tyrells wanted to have Sansa for her claim, how the Lannisters wedded her to Tyrion for Winterfell... Everyone kinda forgot about Athy because... they were a wallflower and lowborn anyways, and they were probably sent away or something so that their claim couldn't contest with Jennette's. In my version I wanted Jennette to grow up in the Imperial Palace, possibly with Penelope alive? But I don't know what to do with Penelope if she's alive. Maybe Penelope could be dead but Rosalia could be there. Either way they both knew each other for just a little while before smol Athy got taken out of the picture for one reason or another. Maybe they could squire for some knight? Become a ward of some random family? Maybe Athy could re-enter the political sphere like a wrecking ball, whether of their own will or not, and everyone except for the ones backing them are like, “oh shit...”

Jen running from place to place disguising herself to escape from a forced political match paralleling Alayne Stone while Athy's rise to power paralleling Jon Snow becoming Lord Commander... though the resurrection thing doesn't fit with Athy so some fiddling will have to be done.

Maybe I could have both as two versions of the same AU— I really like both ideas. Also consider Athanasius, with wavy hair like Diana and probably having darker skin like a Siodonnan.

Though I need ideas on where the Alpheus family and Felix and Lily would come in in both versions of the AU!

I don’t mind it! You can ramble to me any day about your amazing AU’s. I love it when people gets excited about their art or writing.

Adding my own ideas to the mix: What if Athy has to flee after having been accused of the poisoning? In this AU the person poisoned could be Claude instead of Jennette and he actually dies or permanently falls into coma, leaving the country unprotected. The neighbouring countries, which have only been waiting for such a moment of weakness, are gearing up for war. It's a war on two fronts. There are fights outside and inside the country over control over Obelia. Outside there are the neighbouring countries that are demanding justice for the killed princesses that once entered Claude's harem and fell victims to his wrath after Diana died. And inside we have the colonies fighting for their independence. Obelia isn't as united as it used to be, even the Obelian nobles are killing each other over who gets to be the regent until Jen is of age. Her suitors drop dead like flies and Jennette is forced to run away to avoid doing further damage. (She als feels hella guilty for causing this mess.)

smol Athy and Jennette starting out rlly close. Childhood friends, sisters..they were basically inseparable until Rosalia entered the picture and removed Athy. Send her to the wall/tower to be trained as a magician. Magician's have to freeze their hearts so passion doesn't overcome logic. Let's say that magicians killing off their emotions and pledging their loyality to the crown makes it impossible for them to marry or have children. Ever. They aren't interested in love because they are basically emotionally crippled ands are bound by their vow to have only one person they are allowed to feel loyality to: their Emperor. Rosalia hopes that if Athy passes the final exam to become a magician she'll never have children that could contest Jen's claim.

Ijekiel could be a Tyrell or maybe a Lannister. Felix could be Ana's former guard who he betrayed. He earned himself the title kingslayer although it was Claude who dealed Ana the final hit. Siodonna would be Dorne. Lily probably belongs to a minor noble house that doesn't do much and likes to stay in the shadows and go unnoticed. They are too afraid to be caught in the crossfire of the intrigues of the court and prefer to remain neutral. So it would probably come as a big shock when she does start to show a political savy side and uses her family to back up Athy as a potential successor candidate when she gets presented at court.

[flippiner]

Wake the dragon meme

#Wake the dragon meme full#

#Wake the dragon meme tv#

There are funny anime memes that look better than ever before and cover lots of new subjects that are actual for everyday use. Our anime memes 2019 is better than ever with plenty of new updates and new material being released. Whatever it comes to anime school memes it will always keep the smile on your face and ensure the perfect and shiny mood as well as plenty of joy and happiness. All of the anime memes that we have on offer are frequently updated so there is always something new at your disposal and something that will keep your friends smiling at all times. Here is an outstanding collection of variety of anime and manga memes, which could be used at any time and will be a decent complimentary to your social media sharing or share with your friends and relatives. There could not be anything better than to have all memes in one place particularly if you are the fun of manga memes. Our funny manga memes are probably the best that could be found on the internet, so please do not hesitate to use it at any time you want to and share it with your friends!

#Wake the dragon meme full#

Game of Thrones season 7 is almost over but the fun isn’t! Especially when the Internet is full of memes and the Night King, yes the Night King.There could not be anything better than to have all memes in one place particularly if you are the fun of manga memes. #Game of thrones wake the dragon meme full# We need more of the Night King because he looks like a “cool” guy. If you haven’t watched Game of Thrones season 7, episode 6 yet, there’s a lot more than just laughter you can gain from these memes. Through the highs and lows of it all, Game of Thrones is as funny as it is dramatic. Season 7 has been the most dramatic yet and we’re not just talking about the awesome dragon battle or Jon Snow and Daenerys’ interactions! Hackers tried to dampen the enthusiasm, but Game of Thrones season 7, episode 6 still got the viewership it deserved, even after all the leaks.

#Wake the dragon meme tv#

So, it looks like HBO gets the last laugh! Speaking of laughs, did you know there were some rather cool Game of Thrones season 7 memes on the Internet? When you add the greatest TV show ever to the best use of Internet mockery, some of the greatest memes surrounding the show are birthed. #Game of thrones wake the dragon meme tv# animators and crew members share the history of the show’s most meme-able side character. Since episode 6 titled “Beyond the Wall” ended on such an epic note, we should celebrate with some GoT memes and a special mention of the Night King. One of the worst things that can happen to anyones sex life is the day you wake up and realize your sexuality in no way reflects anything youve witnessed in the. If six guys fight 20,000 dead people and one dragon flies 80 mph, how dumb does Hound have to be to throw one stone? #algebra #GameOfThrones He’s just eager to get back and eat some chicken! Jon: sure man, just keep your guard up and don’t do anything stupidĬlegane:#GameofThrones /wHoxt5TTBZ If Jon Snow had been turned into a white walker will he become Johnny Walker or Snow White? #GameOfThronesĬlegane: Can I come beyond the wall as well? The Winter Olympics team looks strong!Ī post shared by Game Of Thrones Memes on at 4:00pm PDT If he’s dancing to Drake’s “Passionfruit” he can’t be such a bad guy, right? #1. He may know nothing, but he’s going to avenge his cousin! The Night King: Why yes, I did happen to have four incredibly large iron chains just lying around–are you saying you don’t? #GameOfThrones Tonights episode was jaw dropping #gameofthrones /BKj8qrwzk9

#Game of thrones wake the dragon meme tv#Ĭlegane to Night King’s resurrected dragon: “But did you die?” Rowing for years…now running for hours? LET HIM REST ALREADY ? #GameOfThrones #ThronesYall /OB1ZTNUK6uĬongratulations to Gendry and the Night King on their First Team All-Westeros Track and Field selections! #GameOfThrones /oPdQQBqLBs Raven: “Say no more fam!” #GameofThrones #ThronesYall /cedvVBJMyK Rhaegal and Viserion were besties.#GameofThrones #ThronesYall /huUZV1V38Q Jon had the “How dare you kill my girl’s baby” face, lmao.#GameofThrones #ThronesYall /yngJeTCWv5Ĭan you imagine how Rheagal must be feeling? They were so inseperable.

#Game of thrones wake the dragon meme full#.

[lorelei-4]

Jon Snow Appreciation Month

Day 28: Ending Speculations

Speaking of endgame speculation for Jon, I want to start my ramblings with how I see the continuation of his arc after we see him murdered (or injured) in ADWD.

No matter what happened to him, his character would take turn towards a darker and, so to say, more callous side. After all, he was betrayed by his own brothers in arms, which is painful and hurtful and it's something you don't forget easily.

It might happen that Jon was only injured and someone would save him and treat him. Or if he is indeed dead and later resurrected, it would be nothing like Lady Stoneheart and more like Lord Berric, but unlike them, Jon is a warg and Ghost is nearby. Jon is more or less used to being inside the direwolf's mind and Varamir's POV showed us certain possibilities quite clearly, when his body died and his mind warged into his wolf One Eye, and this POV to be sure carries some purpose in it. So, I don't think Jon's mental health, so to say, will be damaged severely. So, he'll be able to stay sane when he's resurrected.

The readers, the author and the narrative need the Jon we know from the previous five books. First of all, there's a huge mistery of his parentage, which is yet to be revealed. Jon is so hunted by the image of his mother that all the pages devoted to her would be useless if Jon is dead or turns into a walking corpse. Jon's parentage would be meaningful to the narrative and its revealiation would make a great deal to Jon. To process all that he has to stay thinking and feeling human being.

Also, the meeting with Dany cannot be avoided. They are destined for each other by the narrative. They are the ice and fire. Both of them long for family with Jon always feeling as some kind of afterthought due to Cat and Sansa and Ned himself not being so warm with him and Dany longing for a house with the red door and for a family she never had. Both of them have political and diplomatic talents and leadership experience to play a very important part in the upcoming events.

Speaking of ending, there's the ending I want and the one I think can be probable. The first one is Jon and Dany as king and queen with kids to secure the Targaryen line and the baby dragons, so that the great creatures could florish again. But I doubt GRRM would go for it. At the same time both Jon and Dany do not deserve a bad ending. They are not saints, but they tried to make choices they deemed right, they tried to make people's lives better, they suffered enogh since childhood. What kind of message will it deliver, if it's all is ruined in the end? That is why I think, they may end up together somewhere far from Westeros with their family, dragons and Ghost. After all, their true wish was always family, not the power or kingship/queenship. And it would be only fair to give them that.

[robinrequiems]

hey any1 want some superman jon and batman Damian hcs? too bad cause you’re getting them

• damian realized why no one wanted to be batman when he turned 18 and Bruce decided to give him batman when he was 22.

• jon realized why jon didn’t want to be superman when he also turned 18

• oh and right, by gave, I mean bruce sorta can’t be batman anymore. medical reasons…

• damian sorta uh. persuaded clark into giving jon superman.

Damian: look. I don’t wanna be worlds finest with you, old man.

Clark: im- im not old—

Damian: listen here, jon and i? we are gonna surpass you and my dad. so give it to jon and let me prove it.

Clark: this doesn’t seem like a good idea— you aren’t ready— neither is jon

Damian: wait- wait, you don’t believe in your son and i??? wow. WOOOW. okay. i see.

Clark: that’s not it!-

Damian: sure. sure. don’t worry. I see now.

Clark: wait I do!

Damian: no, no you don’t.. it’s— it’s okay, I get it, it’s me, huh?

Clark: no!

Damian: I get it

Clark: please i do! I’ll - oh my rao, you’re playing me

Damian: i am. i cant do this without jon though. please, Clark.

Clark: *sigh, how did he get manipulated by a kid he used to babysit* okay.

• okay so now jon may be a little overwhelmed because one day he’s flamebird, the next, he’s becoming superman? huH. it’s extremely uh. worrying. and really just? wow.

• does Damian feel bad? oh yeah. he does. so bad. but he really can’t do it alone. they always dreamed of being their parents. or being better than them. but they grew up and realized that they really didn’t want to be their parents.

• but here they were, getting fitted for their suits and adding their own details to it.

jon: hey, you look hot

damian: please. shut up.

• they could do this. they could do this. shoot they can’t do this.

• damians own anxiety was going 50 mph. look, okay? remember before heretic when Bruce thought that Damian would become a satanic batman and basically rain hell all over gotham? yeah. that’s what is going on in damians mind.

• he doesn’t want to be that. ( “you won’t be like that, cmon, d, we’re gonna be better.” ) and how Damian wants to believe jon so bad..

• he doesn’t want to become obsessed with Batman like his father did, he still wants to have a life. he doesn’t want to isolate himself away and adopt kids as a coping mechanism. that’s why he needs jon to be superman. jon helps him, he helps him not go off into his own little world and stay there. he believes that with Jon, he’ll be okay. he has to be. maybe he uses jon as his own coping mechanism, but that isn’t the point.

• together, they will outshine their parents. the supersons can do this. they are the next generation, and it’s not like they are alone. they have so many other people to help them. they’ll be okay.

• they have been preparing for this their whole life, but they both feel like they got it too soon. they thought they had more time. Damian does feel guilty when he hears jon talking about how stressed he is about superman and not living up to whatever the hell he has to live up to, but Damian does fear what would. or could. have happened if he didn’t have jon with him. becoming batman took a lot out of him, more than he would like to admit. he just got constant flashbacks to heretic and that whole fiasco he thought he put behind him a loong time ago.

Jon: are you sure you’re okay?

Damian: yes idiot, quit worrying.

Jon: I’ll always worry about, d.

• jon somehow becomes MORE sappier when he becomes superman.

• okay, also, funny story. ( Clark and Bruce don’t find it funny AT ALL ) superman and batman? yeah they sorta kissed after an almost alien invasion. in their suits. uh. in front of an alien who they were arresting for the green lanterns. most people believe that when people say it, it’s a lie, kidding. no they don’t. there were pictures.

bruce: you want to explain this?

damian: not really, no.

• the public knows there’s a new Batman and Superman since yk. Jon’s face is public and was seen as superboy flamebird and now superman, and batman was slightly smaller and had some different moves

• but here’s their main line up: batman ( dami wamie, obvi ), superman ( jonnyboy kent ), nobody ( maya:)) ), green lantern ( tai pham, my baby boy ), lace ( wallace west 2, he goes by lace instead of flash because i said so. ), and shazam ( billy b ).

• fun fact, they have a den mother even though they are all in their 20s. poor dinah.. yeah black canary is their den mother. ( stole it from from yj )

• dinah makes sure they get their injuries checked out, train regularly, and you know. don’t blow up a building.

• again.

• ( when damian and jon were younger, in their teen years, they stupidly accidentally blowed up a building. in their defense, the building was owned by the penguin. and there were no civilians in the area. but they also got a lot of men sent after them.. oops. )

• they are very chaotic. they are the definition of dumbass energy sometimes.

• damian tries to keep the pda down whenever he’s batman, BUT JON DOESNT KNOW HOW TO DO THAT

• hence the amount of photos of jon hugging Damian or kissing him

• damian has never once initiated one in suits

• ( that one time jon almost died does not count )

Damian: thought you were gonna be batman.

Tim: nah, i don’t wanna be bruce. i saw what it did to dick. I would’ve became just like him.

Damian: am i like him??

Tim: god no, bruce would never kiss superman or date him or spray paint the new justice league logo— nice logo, by the way— onto villains bases

Damian: is that a good or bad thing?

Tim; good, that means you probably won’t be a total emotional stunted person using crime fighting as an outlet for unresolved childhood trauma.

Damian: you do realize why i became Robin right

Tim: .. not the point im trying to make. I mean now, brat.

• sometimes you can see some of the heroes dropping by to surprise kids, they heard that their old mentors used to go to children’s hospitals to visit sick kids, so they did that too. on a rare day where there isn’t any crime, which is really rare, they go to a school and talk if it’s a weekday, or they drop by an orphanage to hang out with kids.

• they have gotten into a lot of trouble though. they’re still learning how to work as a team. jon and damian are used to being solo and working with each other, Tai had tagged along a few times when they were younger and knows how they work, along with maya, but billy and Wallace do not.

• they often all get into arguments.

• damian lacks a filter and will criticize everyone if they mess up. and he often goes off alone or is too blunt.

• it takes a long time before they all realize that Damian is just: Damian, he doesnt mean to be mean. ( surprisingly )

• billy is used to being the big kid stuck at the kids table, it’s funny that he’s actually the second oldest when he used to be the youngest. ( lace is like.. 27? shazam is 25.. nobody 24. & the supersons 22. pulled all those ages outta my ass. you’re welcome. )

• dinah is also their therapist. poor dinah.

• like really giving pity to dinah. but dinah loves those kids, she has known some since they were kids. she used to take damian out for ice cream and train with him, and also babysit him. ( AUNT DINAH IS MY FAVORITE GOODBYE ). and she did the same with Jon.

• dinah actually does help a lot of them get over their trauma, not completely, but most have finally spoken about it. they began talking after they all got hit with fear gas.

• that was a bad night.

• they had almost disbanded before when they thought lace had died by the hands of captain cold. they had been arguing all day, and if they didn’t, they might’ve saved him:

• but turns out he wasn’t dead.

• but the argument was still there, and it was strong. it took a while for them to actually work together without dinah forcing them.

• then soon came another new member after maya left to go do some undercover mission for the justice league regarding some alien tech being distributed some place. it was a sad goodbye, but she would be back and she would have a place here.

• welcoming: yara flor. yara was a bit headstrong and wild. damian has screamed at her a lot and almost got into a fist fight with her before being dragged off by his boyfriend 💋

• but she settled in fine. minus the fact damian really wanted to shove a batarang up— anyways. she just had to learn teamwork and shit, she was used to being a solo and she was somewhat new. so they helped her out and she became a solid member of the team.

• sometimes damian and jon just go and sit on a rooftop like they did as kids togeyher. just alone with each other. thinking about how their life changed so quickly.

Damian: i thought we’d ruin our fathers’ legacies and plummet to the ground.

Jon: *he coughed* ..what?

Damian: yeah. i didn’t think we’d get this far, but here we are.

Jon: of course we got this far, and we’re gonna get further.

Damian: i know.

• oh yeah. so. superman. fucking proposed after they defeated darkseid. ( the battle was long, so many people were left injured and on the brick of death, Damian and jon had been separated when it all started. Damian had stayed on earth at first before going to apokolips. Damn he hadn’t seen it since he got resurrected.

Darkseid: oh. I remember you.

Damian: mhm?

Darkseid: ah yes, the little boy who was resurrected here.. the chaos share, your father used it on you.

Damian: i know. i remember what happened. I was there afterall.

Darkseid: I wonder if you are as smart as the original batman.

Damian: i am.

• damian was buying time. he was waiting for reinforcements, namely the people who had powers and could take him down. damian wasn’t stupid. he realized darkseid liked to talk. his friends were fighting off the female furys or whatever they were called. he just had to wait and entertain.

Darkseid: quite the ego there.

Damian: i saved the justice league when i was 13, i deserve to have an ego.

Darkseid: oh, you are by far more talkative than the original.

Damian: thanks.

Darkseid: not a compliment, you fool.

• yeah so. darkseid tried to kill damian, with a beam thing. Damian was about to flip away like the baddie he is, but. jon. went out and yk. took the hit. dumbass.

Damian: you have such a big hero complex.

Jon: wow I just saved you and that’s what you say?????

Damian: yes.

• anyways, after they defeat darkseid, jon pops out a ring from his pocket and asks damian to marry him on apokolips.

Damian: you seriously couldn’t wait til we got on earth?

Jon: dames you almost died. what if- what if something happens, I’ve been putting this off for so long. cmon please?

Damian: you’re seriously asking me to marry you here where, I’m pretty sure, a lot of shit happened to our parents here.

Jon: no time like the present.

Damian: fair. okay.

Jon: just okay???

Damian: im sorry, do you want me to cry or something?

Jon: ughh, you can be so extra and petty sometimes.

Damian: i am not being petty.

Jon: just because I ask you to marry me here you wanna be like “okay” and that’s it

Damian: you’re so dramatic. I’ll marry you. I wanna marry you. Better?

Jon: yeah:)

[shieldofrohan]

Speaking of POV's. I am insanely curious. Do you think Jon will stop being a POV character after his death like Catelyn/Lady Stoneheart?

Hello Anon,

Maybe at first? Because he will be inside Ghost for a while. But I have to admit that a Ghost/Jon PoV would be awesome.

But do I think Jon will stop being a POV character for good?

No. Because unlike Cat we need his POV. He is a main character. More than Cat ever was.

And don't forget that Cat died for good because now there is only Lady Stoneheart. This is not like Sansa becoming Alayne or Arya becoming this and that. Martin wants to emphasize that Catelyn Tully Stark is dead and Lady Stoneheart is just a woman who seeks revenge.

Martin accepts the similarities between Beric, Stoneheart and Show!Jon when it's asked:

GRRM: [...] That’s, in some ways, me talking to Tolkien in the dialogue, saying, “Yeah, if someone comes back from being dead, especially if they suffer a violent, traumatic death, they’re not going to come back as nice as ever.” That’s what I was trying to do, and am still trying to do, with the Lady Stoneheart character.

Q: And Jon Snow, too, is drained by the experience of coming back from the dead on the show.

GRRM: Right. And poor Beric Dondarrion, who was set up as the foreshadowing of all this, every time he’s a little less Beric. His memories are fading, he’s got all these scars, he’s becoming more and more physically hideous, because he’s not a living human being anymore. His heart isn’t beating, his blood isn’t flowing in his veins, he’s a wight, but a wight animated by fire instead of by ice, now we’re getting back to the whole fire and ice thing.

SOURCE

So it is safe to assume that Jon will be less like Jon, his memories might fade and physically he won't be a normal human. But we also have to remember some factors:

Unlike Beric Jon has died only once, he will be resurrected only once so resurrection will have less effects on him

Unlike Catelyn he probably won't stay dead too long

Melisandre is probably a better priest and she says that magic is stronger at Wall.

I think Cat's death was worse considering her watching Robb dying and whole massacre in Red Wedding

And most importantly he has GHOST.

I am 99% sure that he warged into Ghost and it means that his soul and mind has not actually died. And in Jon's case we have to look at Varamyr's situation in ADWD Prologue.

Varamyr could feel the snowflakes melting on his brow. This is not so bad as burning. Let me sleep and never wake, let me begin my second life. His wolves were close now. He could feel them. He would leave this feeble flesh behind, become one with them, hunting the night and howling at the moon. The warg would become a true wolf. Which, though?

[…]

“They say you forget,” Haggon had told him, a few weeks before his own death. “When the man’s flesh dies, his spirit lives on inside the beast, but every day his memory fades, and the beast becomes a little less a warg, a little more a wolf, until nothing of the man is left and only the beast remains.”

Varamyr knew the truth of that. When he claimed the eagle that had been Orell’s, he could feel the other skinchanger raging at his presence. Orell had been slain by the turncloak crow Jon Snow, and his hate for his killer had been so strong that Varamyr found himself hating the beastling boy as well. He had known what Snow was the moment he saw that great white direwolf stalking silent at his side. One skinchanger can always sense another. Mance should have let me take the direwolf. There would be a second life worthy of a king. He could have done it, he did not doubt. The gift was strong in Snow, but the youth was untaught, still fighting his nature when he should have gloried in it.

[…]

A sleeping direwolf raised his head to snarl at empty air. Before their hearts could beat again he had passed on, searching for his own, for One Eye, Sly, and Stalker, for his pack. His wolves would save him, he told himself.

That was his last thought as a man.

True death came suddenly; he felt a shock of cold, as if he had been plunged into the icy waters of a frozen lake. Then he found himself rushing over moonlit snows with his packmates close behind him. Half the world was dark. One Eye, he knew. He bayed, and Sly and Stalker gave echo.

When they reached the crest the wolves paused.

More about Jon and One Eye: XX

As we can see Varamyr thinks like Varamyr for now but he knows that the beast will take him over in time. So it will be important for Jon that how long he'll be in Ghost's body (not too long imo).

And guess what? Martin gave us a Varamyr POV. You might say that he gave it for us to understand post-resurrection Jon because we won't have his pov in next books but I feel like as a writer Martin will take the challenge.

He didn't give us Beric/Cat POV and he only gave us a dead warg's pov. But what about a resurrected dead warg's pov? I think we need to read it and he needs to write it.

And Jon is such a central figure for the story... we still need him for: Wall, retaking WF, RLJ, DoD 2.0, Others plots.

Imagine not having a Jon POV after him learning about his real parents. RLJ is the main mystery of the series and he is in the middle of it. Even just for that plot we need his pov so I am almost sure that we'll keep reading his povs in next books.

Thanks for the ask.

[tomakeitbeautifultolive]

Something I've been wondering about: If Jon comes back as a fire wight like Beric Dondarrion and unCat, will he be able to get it up? Blood won't really be flowing in his body anymore, so would his dick be powered by fire magic or something like that?

I, too, have spent a great deal of time pondering Jon Snow’s dick, Anon. 😏 Jokes aside, I will admit right off the bat that most of what I have to offer is total speculation, but over-thinking the most minor details of ASOIAF happens to be my favorite pastime, so let’s go!

Like pretty much everyone who read the quote, I was totally thrown off by the “fire wight” revelation. Here’s the quote for reference:

“..poor Beric Dondarrion, who was set up as the foreshadowing of all this, every time he’s a little less Beric. His memories are fading, he’s got all these scars, he’s becoming more and more physically hideous, because he’s not a living human being anymore. His heart isn’t beating, his blood isn’t flowing in his veins, he’s a wight, but a wight animated by fire instead of by ice.”

So, an important distinction to make here is that this quote is about Beric Dondarrion specifically, not Jon Snow.

The condition of Jon Snow’s corpse might matter

George can be very clever with how he words things. Note that he goes into Beric’s deaths, describing multiple resurrections and how he’s falling apart before stating that his heart is no longer beating. It could be that a fresh “fire wight” might still possess bodily functions—at least at first. Catelyn, too, was a very sorry looking corpse by the time she was reanimated, therefore not a great comparison, either. Especially since it’s Beric rather than Thoros who, with very little life force to lend, resurrects her.

If nothing else, Jon will be “fresh”, and his location at the Wall means the low temperatures will help preserve his body even if the resurrection takes some time. 

And speaking of the Wall… there happens to be a special lady there who could help Jon, and whose powers happen to be amplified by the magic of the Wall...

Melisandre is profoundly more powerful than Thoros of Myr

Thoros may be a red priest, but otherwise he seems to be a pretty normal human man. We get a clue about when he converted from Jaime:

“Jaime had once heard Thoros tell the king that he became a red priest because the robes hid the winestains so well.”

Relatively recently, one might guess, as most children aren’t yet drunks. Further, he was never very dedicated to his faith, even questioning it at times.

Melisandre, on the other hand...

“Melisandre had practiced her art for years beyond count, and she had paid the price. There was no one, even in her order, who had her skill at seeing the secrets half-revealed and half-concealed within the sacred flames.”

While we don’t know much about her, this confirms that she spent countless years studying her craft, and no one in her order can match her skill. And no one believes in their faith more than Melisandre. Like in the television series, it’s a safe bet that she’s actually much older than the natural human lifespan, particularly if she managed to lose count of how many years she’s studied magic.

If Melisandre is the one to resurrect Jon Snow, she might not use a ‘last kiss’ method at all, or, if she does, it could be more powerful than anything Thoros is capable of.

Unlike Beric, Jon Snow is probably the prophesied prince

Speaking of Melisandre’s ability to glimpse secrets in the flames… there’s someone she sure seems to see a lot of:

“I pray for a glimpse of Azor Ahai, and R'hllor shows me only Snow.”

“Skulls. A thousand skulls, and the bastard boy again. Jon Snow.”

“The flames crackled softly, and in their crackling she heard the whispered name Jon Snow. His long face floated before her, limned in tongues of red and orange.”

I know. There is some contention about who the Prince that was Promised is. Regardless of whether you agree that it’s Jon Snow, you’ve got to admit that Melisandre is seeing him in the flames for a reason. And if he’s not the prophesied prince, then perhaps his blood has something to do with it. It’s likely that, for some reason, the combination of Targaryen and Stark blood matters. At least, Rhaegar Targaryen seemed pretty convinced...

Whatever Jon Snow’s business is in Westeros… it’s unfinished. And part of that unfinished business might just involve becoming a father.

The emphasis put on Jon fathering a child is notable

Let’s go back to Jon’s first chapter ever. It opens with Jon at Robert’s feast, the author uses Jon’s eyes to describe the setting and multiple characters. And then enters Benjen Stark. This is when we really get to know Jon. When you read this passage, really consider the author’s intent here:

"You don't know what you're asking, Jon. The Night's Watch is a sworn brotherhood. We have no families. None of us will ever father sons. Our wife is duty. Our mistress is honor."

"A bastard can have honor too," Jon said. "I am ready to swear your oath."

"You are a boy of fourteen," Benjen said. "Not a man, not yet. Until you have known a woman, you cannot understand what you would be giving up."

"I don't care about that!" Jon said hotly.

"You might, if you knew what it meant," Benjen said. "If you knew what the oath would cost you, you might be less eager to pay the price, son."

Jon felt anger rise inside him. "I'm not your son!"

Benjen Stark stood up. "More's the pity." He put a hand on Jon's shoulder. "Come back to me after you've fathered a few bastards of your own, and we'll see how you feel."

Jon trembled. "I will never father a bastard," he said carefully. "Never!" He spat it out like venom.

Suddenly he realized that the table had fallen silent, and they were all looking at him. He felt the tears begin to well behind his eyes.

This is how George R.R. Martin chooses to introduce us to Jon Snow. And gods, that always hits me right in the gut. It’s absolutely supposed to. Jon’s trembling, venomous anger is palpable. You feel the deep hurt and resentment in his words, right down to his core. Jon says he doesn’t care—but the bite in his words and the tears welling in his eyes tell us otherwise.

Jon Snow easily embraces his vow of celibacy. At first. And then comes Ygritte. And after getting his first taste of love and later flirting with the idea of becoming a lord when it’s offered to him by Stannis, Jon Snow begins to imagine what it might be like to have a wife...

“I might someday hold a son of my own blood in my arms. A son was something Jon Snow had never dared dream of, since he decided to live his life on the Wall.”

And look what happens the moment he does dare to dream of it...

“I could name him Robb. Val would want to keep her sister's son, but we could foster him at Winterfell, and Gilly's boy as well. Sam would never need to tell his lie. We'd find a place for Gilly too, and Sam could come visit her once a year or so. Mance's son and Craster's would grow up brothers, as I once did with Robb.

He wanted it, Jon knew then. He wanted it as much as he had ever wanted anything. I have always wanted it, he thought, guiltily. May the gods forgive me. It was a hunger inside him, sharp as a dragonglass blade.”

And the feeling transitions into an almost tangible hunger felt by his wolf, Ghost.

Speaking of Ghost…

Grab your tinfoil! ‘Cause Jon’s life might’ve already been ‘paid for’ ...By Daenerys

First… in case you didn’t know, Daenerys is probably a skinchanger:

“The slightest pressure with her legs, the lightest touch on the reins, and the filly responded. As she turned to ride back, a firepit loomed ahead, directly in her path. A daring she had never known filled Daenerys then, and she gave the filly her head.”

Basically, it goes like this:

As Daenerys wanders the Dothraki Sea in search of food after being whisked away by Drogon, she hears a wolf’s howl.

“Will (Ghost) howl for me when I'm dead, as Bran's wolf howled when he fell?”

Feeling lonely yet no less hungry, she eats some strange green berries. Her stomach begins to cramp.

“My flesh will feed the wolves and carrion crows, she thought sadly, and worms will burrow through my womb.”

Unfortunately, Daenerys then experiences some horrible diarrhea. Poor girl! I don’t bring it up to be crass, but because this purge bears striking resemblance to an earthly drug called Ayahuasca—a substance that, aside from emptying your bowels, is often used as a means to ‘open your third eye’ (Just as Bran does in the crypts, and he can finally reach Jon and Ghost…)

Dany falls asleep and begins experiencing trippy dreams about her brother—perhaps even achieving contact with the other side? Then...

“When she woke, gasping, her thighs were slick with blood.”

Assuming it’s nothing more than her period, Dany begins to wonder the last time she bled—hinting that it might’ve been a little while.

“The sight of so much red frightened her. Moon blood, it's only my moon blood, but she did not remember ever having such a heavy flow.”

Maybe a bit of a stretch, I know. But… this wretched and graphic scene of Dany’s loose bowels really made me wonder what in seven hells George was thinking. I was so embarrassed for Dany that I HAD to figure out why he’d do this to her.

And my best guess is that she’s using these latent skinchanging abilities to tap into this strange connection with the “blue rose” over at the Wall of Westeros and the silent wolf who finally howled for help upon his death… And so, Dany’s miscarriage may be the death that will pay for Jon’s life.

I might’ve found some more evidence to back this claim up, this is very new ‘evidence’, so bear with me:

“Fire”, in the world of ASOIAF, often translates to “life”. As is seen here in Sam’s speech following Aemon’s death (thanks, bridge4!):

“He was the blood of the dragon, but now his fire has gone out.”

Further, according to the wiki:

“When a follower of the Lord of Light dies, priests fill their mouths with fire and breathe flame into the deceased”

In the House of the Undying, Dany receives a series of chilling prophecies, one of which happens to be about fires:

“Three fires you must light, one for life, one for death and one to love”

I know, I know. Drogo’s pyre, the Khals, etc etc. But George might be playing with double meanings here… So, if we think of fires as conceptions, this could maybe mean:

One in exchange FOR the Dragon’s lives (Life)

One in exchange FOR Jon’s resurrection (Death)

One conceived (likely with Jon) and carried to term (TO love)

Food for thought! Especially considering that, like Jon, Dany possesses the blood of Old Valyria, and these sacrifices are probably all the more powerful as a result. But even if I’m dead wrong about that prophecy, well, fire still broadly means life, which bodes well for our brooding ‘bastard’, who might just end up as a “fire wight”.

Hopefully something in this drivel has given any Jon fans reading this a little bit of faith that, despite the slight setback of death, Jon will still be able to exercise his, uh, virility when he finally meets Dany. 😅 Thanks for the ask!!

[fedonciadale]

What’s your take on what’s going to happen at Castle Black once everyone knows that he’s dead? Is it going to be immediate chaos? Or something else? I hesitate to think Stannis will have Shireen burned in the books... could Selyse and Mel take Mance’s “baby” to burn only for the wildlings to retaliate and take Shireen? Or will Selyse choose to burn Shireen? Is GRRM going to do something with human/child sacrifice trope? Where is he taking this scenario?

Hi there!

I am not quite sure, what will happen or in what order. There will be chaos and Satin will probably be the one who brings Jon’s body to safety. The NW will be rudderless and out for the time being.

I do think though, that Stannis will indeed sacrifice Shireen. If I remember correctly it was more or less confirmed after season 5 that the burning of Shireen is supposed to be a WTF moment and that it was together with Hodor and one other thing one of the three WTF moments yet to come in the books.

I do think Stannis is build up to make the ‘wrong’ sacrifice for the ‘wrong’ reasons. More so, since Davos, who is his conscience and who has a clear cut opinion on child sacrifice is not available.

Remember that Stannis already wanted to kill Edric Storm as a king’s son and that was before he sailed to the Wall.

Stannis is a hypocrite and I think he will get into an almost impossible situation and will decide to make a huge sacrifice, something that will count.

I can easily imagine that it will be a clusterfuck of a situation, because of course Stannis will think of Mance’s  son first. Val who knows that Mance’s son is gone and that the baby ‘Monster’ is Craster’s son will either try to save the baby she has grown attached to and spirit him away or she will spill the truth about him. This will then mean that the only king’s blood available will be Shireen. And Val might direct desperate people towards Shireen. She thinks Shireen should be dead anyway because she has greyscale. I think Stannis will sacrifice her in an act of desperation.

I’m not sure what will happen to Craster’s son. We had another baby swap in King’s Landing: Aegon, son of Rhaegar, possibly swapped against not a random baby but against the child of Brandon and Ashara Dayne (cf. @une-nuit-pour-se-souvenir posts on Lemora, the ‘septa’ that raises Young Griff). If the second baby swap plays out like the first it is the swapped baby that will die in place of the king’s son.

I think that Selyse will be the one to take revenge for Shireen, the Klytemnaestra to Stannis’ Agamemmnon. It can’t have a good ending.

Also I think that the real effect of Shireen’s sacrifice will not be a ‘change of winds‘ (something that Stannis probably will pray for) but that it will give Melissandre the magic to resurrect Jon. Or Meilissandre will think that Shireen’s sacrifice gave her the power, when in reality it was Jon’s warging abilities - a gift from the old Gods of the North.

When Jon will be ressurected, Craster and Gilly’s son will be dead, Stannis gone and he’ll be half beast because he will have stayed quite some time in Ghost. I don’t know if Val will survive. If she had a hand in Shireen’s death Jon will probably be very angry with her.

I think Davos has it right and speaks for the author:

"Your Grace," said Davos, "the cost . . ."        

 "I know the cost! Last night, gazing into that hearth, I saw things in the flames as well. I saw a king, a crown of fire on his brows, burning . . . burning, Davos. His own crown consumed his flesh and turned him into ash. Do you think I need Melisandre to tell me what that means? Or you?" The king moved, so his shadow fell upon King's Landing. "If Joffrey should die . . . what is the life of one bastard boy against a kingdom?"                 

"Everything," said Davos, softly. (ASOS, Davos V)

There can be no victory when you do not care about the lives of the innocent, because this is what this is about after all. The ends do not justify the means.

Thanks for the ask!

[asprettyasyourown]

How/Where do you think Jon and Arya will meet again? And how/where do you think Dany and Arya will meet?

Honestly, I can’t see Arya and Jon meeting anywhere else other than Winterfell. It would be such a satisfying “conclusion” to this aspect of their storyline. For Arya, both Winterfell AND Jon have been associated with home. She has tried since day one to return to either of them, and to see her do both at the same time would be so lovely. And Jon too, who has struggled for so long with his desire to have Winterfell (feeding his rivalry with Robb and his conflict with his status as a bastard) and Arya (contradicting his position as a member of the Night’s Watch, who have no family), would then get both at the same time. I know GRRM doesn’t like to hand things on a silver platter, and that “Be careful what you wish for” is a massive theme in the series, but come on. You can’t tell me they had it easy, and that they didn’t fight for it.

Now how and when is a little trickier.

Unfortunately, it won’t happen before a loooong time. Arya has a long way to go before leaving Essos, let alone reach Winterfell. She still needs to: 

Tie the story with the FM (including a “training” with the courtesans/the Black Pearl, and of course leaving them);

Deal with the wildlings women and children that are stranded in Braavos now that the Sealord captured the ship (= slavers) that intended to sell them;

As I’ve mentioned before, I very much see the Iron Bank being involved in her storyline, so there’s that to deal with as well;

Meet Dany (I’ll go back to this later);

Go back to Westeros;

Deal with the Riverlands, the Brotherhoods Without Banners and, most importantly, Lady Stoneheart;

Reconnect with Nymeria.

And all that doesn’t even take into account what GRRM could throw in her way on top of all of this. That’s a lot. And since Arya will definitively not see Jon anywhere outside of the North, it could only happen after she resolved all those things.

Jon too has a lot on his plate. He first needs to be resurrected (duh). He also needs to deal with the traitors who stabbed him and his future in the Night’s Watch. If you omit the whole murder thing (kinda hard to tbh), there is still the fact he broke his vows for Arya. He was already set to leave before he died. And since his last thoughts were about Arya, and we know the dead who get resurrected focus on their last conscious thoughts, his resolve to get her back will not be lessened.

Honestly, I think he’s done with the NW. I think he’s gonna do what he intended to before dying, aka kill Ramsay and get “Arya” back, whether by allying with Stannis or at the head of his own wildling army. I don’t know if he’s gonna become King in the North like in GoT, but he’s definitively going to be considered for the role; and since Bran, the legitimate heir, is still alive and will one day return to Winterfell, this could be the catalyst for the tension between these two George planned in his original draft. Not to mention the tensions it would create with the other northern lords, who would not see with a kind eye a bastard allied with the wildlings (enemies of the North for generations) and Stannis; or those who simply won’t appreciate a king not as malleable as a child (side-eye to the Manderlys).

(Oh, and there is also the matter with fArya and Theon. I’m going on a limb here, but I doubt he’s gonna be happy to learn that what he thought was his precious “sister” is really an impostor (though he might be happy to know the real Arya didn’t get what Jeyne had to endure). Or that she’s bringing along the guy who betrayed the Starks and supposedly killed Bran and Rickon. His first reaction definitively won’t be good, though it will probably soften once he learns what happened to them and how Ramsay is the real culprit. But I’m not anticipating much benevolence from him, especially since he’s in dark mode now).

So yeah. Lots of issues to be resolved before they can be reunited, and that’s without counting on the threat of the Others or what other characters might do. Honestly, I’m anticipating a reunion between the end of TWOW and the beginning of ADOS. On one hand, I think it would be more impactful in TWOW; most specifically, the last act of either Jon or Arya’s chapters. It would be a nice conclusion for the both of them, before the Others mess everything up. But I’m also aware that all the issues I’ve previously mentioned might not be resolved in one book, and that it might spill on the second one.

-----------------------------

Now Dany.

Honestly, it’s kinda hard to be sure of how they’re gonna meet. They will, that’s a certainty. There is so much hints, since the first book really. Remember this?

This time the monsters did not frighten her. They seemed almost old friends. [Arya, IV, AGOT]

Which is exactly how I’m anticipating their relationship. At first, things are going to be tense, especially on Dany’s side who has been fed lies about the Starks and their role in her exile (and who could blame her). So there’s definitively room for Arya to be frightened. But once she gets Dany to see her side to the story, and her vision of the events become more balanced, they’ll become fast-friends. They have so much in common, it’s impossible for them not to.

But, once again, the details of how they’re gonna meet is blurry. Arya will need to at least be done with the FM. And Dany... Dany has a lot on her plate too. She’s gonna need to deal with the khalasar she hears at the end of ADWD, and a possible confrontation (alliance?) with the Dothraki. She will also need to end the plot in Meereen (aka choose between “fixing” its whole culture or do what she always intended to, return to Westeros and seize back the Iron Throne). Of course, we know she’s gonna choose the latter - but a bunch of things can happen between that, and with them time passing.

At this point, Arya and Dany are very far away, each at one extremity of Essos. For them to have a chance to meet, I anticipate that Dany will end things with Meereen at the same time Arya closes the storyline with the FM (maybe even before, so Dany could already be on the road towards Braavos). Now is the tricky part. I have two theories on how they will meet: through the lost Wildlings and through the Iron Bank.

The lost Wildlings

We know the wildlings women and children in Braavos were “freed” when the Sealord seized the ship carrying them. Unfortunately, others were not so lucky.

“I know why the Sealord seized the Goodheart. She was carrying slaves. Hundreds of slaves, women and children, roped together in her hold.” Braavos had been founded by escaped slaves, and the slave trade was forbidden here. “I know where the slaves came from. They were wildlings from Westeros, from a place called Hardhome. An old ruined place, accursed.” Old Nan had told her tales of Hardhome, back at Winterfell when she had still been Arya Stark. “After the big battle where the King-Beyond-the-Wall was killed, the wildlings ran away, and this woods witch said that if they went to Hardhome, ships would come and carry them away to someplace warm. But no ships came, except these two Lyseni pirates, Goodheart and Elephant, that had been driven north by a storm. They dropped anchor off Hardhome to make repairs, and saw the wildlings, but there were thousands and they didn’t have room for all of them, so they said they’d just take the women and the children. The wildlings had nothing to eat, so the men sent out their wives and daughters, but as soon as the ships were out to sea, the Lyseni drove them below and roped them up. They meant to sell them all in Lys. Only then they ran into another storm and the ships were parted. The Goodheart was so damaged her captain had no choice but to put in here, but the Elephant may have made it back to Lys. The Lyseni at Pynto’s think that she’ll return with more ships. The price of slaves is rising, they said, and there are thousands more women and children at Hardhome.” [The Blind Girl, ADWD]

So the Goodheart was too damaged to go to Lys, but the Elephant wasn’t. It means there are still hundreds of wildlings women and children enslaved there. Honestly, I’m not sure how Arya could be involved in freeing them. Lys is a long way from Braavos, which means she would have to travel down there (with no resources and the other half of the wildlings), free them and get back up to sail across the Narrow Sea, deal with the Riverlands and then go North. It’s a little much for one girl, even one as resourceful as Arya. Sure, she could ask help from the Iron Bank (see my second point), but I doubt they would indulge her (high risk for no rewards).

But. You know who is as strongly against slavery as Arya, whose path might make her travel to Lys and who has the resources to fuck shit up? Yep, Dany.

The way I see it is, after being disheartened by Meereen and her failure to change the slaver(y) culture, Dany could very much decide to go home to Westeros - and set everything ablaze in her path. If she failed to abolish slavery from the inside, she might decide to do it by force, as a last FUCK YOU to the masters. This could be the beginning of her rock bottom, before she rises back again. It’s also coherent with the Dothraki culture of “Submit or be killed”, which could play a part if she allies with them again.

So I could see her attacking the big cities of Essos, destroying the masters and freeing the slaves as she goes along, until she reaches Braavos - who may be protected since 1. she would use its port to journey across the Narrow Sea and 2. they’re famously known for being founded by slaves and anti-slavery as a whole (and they actually enforce that rule, not just preach it and close their eyes when it counts). There, she could meet Arya through the wildlings women reuniting. Like I said, things would be tense at first, but if they might not be friends at first, they might respect each other for having their hearts set on the same goal (protecting their people). Friendship would come later, I’m not worried about that.

The Iron Bank theory

For me, the Iron Bank doesn’t get the recognition it deserves as a threat, and I fully anticipate them having a much larger role in the next book.

I really believe they will have a hand in Arya going back to Westeros. After she leaves the FM, I very much see them stepping in to offer their “help” to Arya. Personally, I believe the Kindly Man informed them of her real identity (though his motivations are yet unclear). I believe he’s aware of her value as a princess, and the (supposedly) last heir of the North. Look how people are rallying for her in the North when they hear “Valiant Ned’s precious little girl” is being brutalized. Do you think the Iron Bank is gonna pass on such a prize? I can see them trying to do to her what the Manderlys are doing with Rickon, or what Illyrio tried to do with Dany - offer their protection and help so she would be/feel indebted. They could get ahold of the North through Arya, and of the other Kingdoms through Stannis/the crown’s debt. Not too shabby.

But wait, there is a problem arising. A problem named Daenerys, who fully intends to take back the Iron Throne - and if she does, she’s not gonna care about reimbursing the debt her predecessors/usurpers left, thus lessening their leverage (and with three dragons, a Dothraki army and the Unsullied, threatening her is not gonna fly well). I can see them trying to step in too, promise the same things to her they did to Arya - except she’s not gonna fall for the same ploy like Viserys did with Illyrio.

(Btw, I’m sure Arya too will see right through them - she had a whole training dedicated to make her see beyond appearances, and she’s always been pretty observant (like when she didn’t fall for trap Cersei laid for her, with Lannister soldiers dressed as Stark men in AGOT). But she also don’t have the same resources Dany has, and if she frees the wildlings, she’ll have hundreds of mouths to feed and transport back to Westeros. I can’t see her do that without external help, so she might be playing along til a better opportunity arise.)

Now, both these theories have their flaws. The biggest one, for me, is time. Meereen is not gonna be resolved in a day (unless Dany just sets everything on fire the moment she arrives and takes off into the sunset, but I doubt that). She still needs enough time to travel to Braavos. Even if George takes his sweet time closing the FM storyline, dealing with the wildlings in Braavos and the Iron Bank, it’s not gonna take a million chapters. Unless he throws something in there to delay her departure, something that wasn’t foreshadowed yet? Because I don’t see them meeting first in Westeros. What would be the point of having them on the same continent if they don’t meet there? As always, there’s a lot left hanging in the air.

[yeniayofnymeria]

The Parallel Plot; Jon Snow and Arya Stark

Hello,

Similar or parallel plots are also included among Martin's writing techniques. He can use this for a variety of reasons. For example; To show how two queens exercise power in a patriarchal universe in parallel with Cersei and Dany. Or he can use it to show what two characters are like when Jon and Theon have similar living conditions, as well as surrendering to their ambition and not surrendering to their ambition.

Or, as in our present topic, he can use to show the depth of the relationship between the two characters and their impact on their stories.

Jon and Arya have an important and deep connection since the first book. We've seen this in a lot of ways, but I think it's also very important that GRRM puts both in similar conditions because he frees them both in this way.

You probably didn't understand what the word "free" means last time I wrote it. Let me explain.

There is a parallel plot development between Arya and Jon. The two got into an organization where they would never marry, have no children, and would leave their families behind completely. These are the things that are demanded of them. Both of them have to spend their entire lives in this organization. Jon Snow is a member of Night's Watch and Arya is an apprentice at the FM house. When Arya completes the training she will be a FM, not a FM at the moment, Martin has made it clear.

First of all, Jon had to be a member of the NW, because that would give him the skills and awareness he would need for the role he was supposed to play in the future. The same goes for Arya.

The problem is that both have to get rid of these organizations in the story. Because they are cooked now, they have to get out of the oven and come to the table. But how? Jon already took an oath. Arya did not, but she will has to take an oath in the future. So she has to left them before it.

Since Jon has already sworn, the only thing that can set him free is "death" And he died. If Arya swears, she will probably have to die to be free, too. There are enough people in our story who die and resurrect, repeating the same plot over and over reduces the strikingness of the event. So Martin has to send Arya out of there otherway. This will most likely be Jon's death. Yes, this second part is more of a theory, but a theory with solid foundation. I will not explain this here, there is already a topic for this. I already took this part from that topic to discuss it more broadly.

Jon died once, and his oath after he was resurrected saves him from staying there as NW. He will be free to leave Night's Watch. And Arya will leave FM before take an oath because of his dead.

Joining two different organizations that demand the same thing ... The reason they to get out of here is each other ... The author uses Arya and Jon for each other as a factor to free both them. I think that's great! It is also very meaningful.

Jon's death was due to Arya. Jon was constantly struggling to save Arya in the last book, and as soon as he finally realized that Arya's life was in danger, he immediately took action and was killed for breaking his vows. Martin used Arya factor to free him. Likewise, Arya will leave Braavos and FM when she hears about Jon's death after learning her FM skills, so she will not have to swear, Arya's identity will not be lost ... Martin will also use Jon factor to free her.

Thank you for read. :)