#Loki Series Criticism

[gloriousburden]

I think we all know this feeling unfortunately

[magpie-murder]

i can't be the only one who's noticed just how fucked up the concept of loki joining the tva is, right? i personally haven't seen anyone talk about this but it's one of the main things that makes me so uncomfortable about the show.

like, let me describe this without using any of the language that the series does;

a secret police dedicated to killing entire groups of people "for the greater good," one day picks up a man from one of these groups and tells him that if he doesn't help them catch the person who is trying to take them down, they will straight up kill him.

he is then given a coat to wear, branded with the secret police's logo, as well as clarification in huge red letters that he is NOT one of the secret police— he is part of the group the secret police kills.

this secret police is marketed as morally gray, and the company who makes the show releases merch for you to dress up as the secret police (or as the group that they kill) for fun because they want you to think this is cute and aesthetic.

and also the secret police uses gas chambers.

oh and also also, people draw cutesy ship art of this man and the "good cop" cuddling, while the man is clearly labeled and wearing a bland jumpsuit that the secret police forces him to wear.

[therese-lokidottir]

Rewatching Agents of Shield "Who You Really Are" Because I hadn't seen it in so long and there was a lot I forgot.

The basic plot is Lady Sif is on earth looking for someone, but she also has amnesia and doesn't remember who she is or what she was looking for just the work Kavas

First off, hey remember when Asgardians were super strong?

Sif doesn't remember anything except for "Only basic lessons a child would learn."

This is interesting because it shows a lot about Sif. She is very excited about the idea of being a warrior. Also, Thor's name instantly makes her smile, which is adorable. Loki fans may have a harsh opinion of Sif, but I think this episode shows that she has many inherent noble aspects. She is respectful and thankful to the SHIELD agents, and she trusts and credits them for their bravery.

So few things about this first of remember, in this scene, Odin is actually Loki in disguise. At the very least, Loki was being pragmatic and watching out for Earth. He could have easily said that The Avengers or Thor could take care of it themselves, but he took the initiative to ensure that Asgard fulfilled its duty as protectors

Second, I really did forget so much about this episode. They know about the Kree, their reputation, and their history. So, there is no reason they shouldn't know about Thanos. Loki has a reason to want to stay away, but what's the reason for Odin's inaction? He's not a secret.

Even If the Asgardians are more Aliens than Gods in the MCU it's so disappointing to see how they are so lessened over time. They were super advanced; they knew how the technology worked. They saw the universe in a different way.

I wish the Thor lore could have built more on what AOS set up.

[sufferthesea]

if i wanted to watch tom hiddleston play an emotionally damaged, traumatized man with black hair who was neglected by his parents and has an incestuous relationship with a woman while also being attracted to a quirky blonde, i’d watch crimson peak

[alwida10]

After the … horrible*cough* … most deep and tragic, but certainly not satisfying conclusion of the Loki series, I would like to randomly cite one of the writers of Thor (2011) with a random advise for aspiring and established script writers. 🙂

That’s all. 🙂

[humandisastertonystark]

They did not actually make him say this

They did not just—

"Remember the time I was left to die by my abusive father, got captured, tortured and threatened to be brutally murdered if I don't attack earth under constant supervision?

... Yeah, me neither because you and the producers of this show gaslit me into thinking that was just a temper tantrum of an egoistical narcissistic god."

[sigyndottir]

Sorry Marvel, but the Loki Series is NOT my canon!

He deserved better!

[sigyn-fairy]

While I haven't played Marvel Rival I am glad it's kick off a new wave of fan art and shipping Loki with everyone.

The more of that means the less of the D+ series I have to see, so I'm grateful for that.

[starlight-bread-blog]

Why Lokius Should Have Been Canon

This is a sort of combo of two metas that didn't quite get point my across. Some parts will be copied directly, but there's a lot of original content. I will discuss the ship between Loki and Mobius, their place in the show, and the MCU at large. My focus for this meta won't be parallels or motifs, because these things border on well-written friendships. But there will be some of that.

Romance in the MCU

There are a lot of straight couples in the MCU. (Almost) Every main hero is in some heterosexual relationship, Loki included.

(That's not all, not remotely).

But in the LGBTQ+ department... uh.. I think it was mentioned that Valkyrie had a girlfriend... uh... America Chavez had a pride pin... and Loki:

One line. Queer experiences are never a focal point of a show/movie the same way heterosexual experiences are. And that needs to change.

Romance In the Show

Wrong, toxic, or unsuccessfu romantic love is a recurring theme in the show.

Sylki

Sylki was an icky relationship right off the bat. They are the same person. I can't find the post at the moment, but someone has pointed out in their post that them being the same person is referenced in every episode in season 1 (edit: here it is), which is when the romance took place. This made their romance uncomfortable for many viewers.

(Some consider Sylki a toxic relationship, but for this post, the topic is too large to handle with the nuance I'd like to handle it with).

When he's drunk, Loki compares love to a dagger, stating that it hurts you, but when you try to find strength in it, it's not real.

Which is exactly what happens. Sylvie pushes Loki into a portal and they never get back together.

The Love Triangle

In 02×03, Ravonna Renslayer is infatuated with Victor Timely, but he leaves her behind and betrays her when Miss Minutes told him to. One episode later, we discover that they were indeed an item, and established the TVA together. He Who Remains deleted her memories and they never rekindle their love.

Later in the episode, is the best example of "wrong" romance in the show. Miss Minutes, the AI clock, confesses her love to Viktor Timely. He, obviously, freaks out and shuts her off. Nothing ever comes of this.

Brad and Dox

This one is small, but a big indication to romance being a theme. In 02×01, we're shown this:

The gap in the age of the actors is uncomfortable, and a character in universe has this reaction to it. It is never mentioned again.

So what does all of this leave us with? Not much. None of this properly ties to the finale, or anything really. If I were to write the show I would cut a lot of this out, since it serves no purpose. But it does make you keep romance and its shortcomings in mind. The writers want it to be there, in the back of your head.

Loki and Mobius

Finally! I got to talk about them. The two people in question. First things first, who are they, together? They became really supportive, close friends.

Fans even drew parallels to Chaos & Order, which is a very important theme in Loki. But I'm not here to unpack them. These things don't necessarily make them in love. So what does make them in love? I'll present you my evidence, and you ask yourself,

Would it be valid to suggest romantic implications if a man and a women are:

1) Extremely thouchy with each other.

2) Riding on a tandem bike together.

3) Willing to suffer a fate worst than death for another.

4) Falling on each other after that^

5) Literally the Interrupted Declaration of Love trope. (Ex)

6) Being framed in a circle.

7) Waiting & giving permission to attack.

8) Fixing themselvs before seeing the other.

Of course yes. Maybe you think some of these are a strech, but ultimately, people would point out romantic connotations across the board. And I'm here, pointing them out right now. Some scenes between Loki and Mobius have romantic implications.

Conclusion

Loki is a queer protagonist in the MCU, a universe that lacks representation of queer experiences. His show constantlty reminded us of romance, sometimes for seemigly no reason. In the second season, they wrote him and his best friend with romantic implications. And then, nothing. It should not have been nothing. Lokius should have been canon.

[deaddee-anime-brownfanlady]

Though I've forever lost interest in the "Larry " show and didn't want to have anything to do with its second season regarding the MCU /Disney continue fuckery of Loki character.

I couldn't help myself in seeing how Loki "story" concluded, and honestly.... I feel like loki was far better off dead in Infinity War. Just seeing him holding all of the timelines together for eternity with that somber sullen look on his face. Carrying the burden of the Multiverse.

Like really? This is how Loki story ends,

I wish there's was a better Loki series made by someone who actually gives a shit about Loki as both an character and individual when it comes to his complexity and the nauauces of how he was originally written within the first two Thor films before the retconning of Taika Waititi and Mike Waldron. Anyone who had a true actual interest and care for his character similar to the previous movies and truly put a legit focus on him and his personal perspective.

I'm just so done with the MCU and what they've done with Loki and how his "story" ends. Please give me 2011-2013 Loki anytime of the day or a version of Loki not fucked over by Disney/MCU or anything other than the damn Larry show conclusion for Loki.

[gloriousburden]

(No disrespect intended towards OP whatsoever ‼️)

If you read any of my posts about Loki, let it be this one. I feel this is the best and most coherent I’ve been able to explain why I dislike the series so much.

Found this from a post analyzing Loki’s costuming throughout the MCU and it’s just… really depressing to me. Got me thinking.

(OP is speaking in favor of the series btw)

He had all freedoms taken away from him. Even the most basic such as dressing himself. He couldn’t even express himself stylistically/through his clothing.

‘He is forced to wear the same clothing as his captor.’

They’re aware.

Love and connection can change others, but this is him changing himself in order to receive that “love” and “connection.” (You guys already know how I feel about his “relationships” in the series, but let’s just go with it for now.)

Loki has never been loved or accepted for who he is, and instead of the series uplifting/proudly presenting those traits of his that haven’t been loved by others, they have him abandon those traits instead. You can only be loved or accepted if you change every aspect of who you are. You can only be included if you strip yourself of who you are. That’s the message the series/his characterization in the series sends. It doesn’t send a message of acceptance, and friendship. He couldn’t even be accepted “despite” who he is. How is him changing who he is to feel a sense of belonging acceptance?

(And I don’t even mean traits such as his coldness or harshness. No, I mean everything from his own way of speaking, his intelligence, his ability to stick up for himself, his ambition, his mischievousness, just… all of it. He lost even the non “difficult” traits.)

He wasn’t worthy of being loved as is. He had to conform in every way. From the way he expresses himself, all the way to his mannerisms. Consciously, and subconsciously. He rejected pieces of himself, to become like those around him.

I understand why the writers did this as they are ignorant and the series was never meant to be about Loki or about uplifting him, but to have “fans” accept this… Loki, I’m sorry they couldn’t love you for who you were. I know he’s not real, but it makes me emotional that the characters around him didn’t accept him for who he was, nor do his “fans.”

Ignorant “fan” talk aside, the writers in the first place didn’t understand that one of the reasons we love Loki is because he wasn’t loved for who he is. No one who truly loved him, wanted him to change and conform to other’s ideals. I understand that Loki needed to be dumbed down and stripped of everything that made him himself in order for the series to work, but no one wanted this.

To make the god of mischief, someone who’s chaotic in nature, conform to order… ooh, it is so irritating.

And this is one of the reasons I dislike the motives behind the costuming in the series. It’s not because I hate Tom Hiddleston and don’t respect his choices, or because the costuming is ugly (it is, but that’s not what I’m here to talk about), it’s because I hate what these choices represent. I hate the fact that people feel that they need to change every aspect of who they are in order to be loved, when there is always someone who will love you for who you are. I hate that it’s encouraged, and seen as acceptance when it’s nothing of the sort.

‘The new costuming shows humility’, as if Loki was ever allowed to be anything but humbled in the first place. As if he were allowed to be above anyone in the first place. As if he was able to be celebrated in the first place. Those “bad” traits, were never accepted. They don’t realize that just because Loki was the villain of the Avengers, it doesn’t mean he walked out successfully.

He was humbled just like in every movie he’s been in. Whether that’s him being rejected by Odin, disrespected by The Warrior’s Three + Sif, humbled by Thor ‘Know your place, brother’, tortured by Thanos, defeated by The Avengers, left to rot in a cell in the dungeons of the Palace he grew up in and was raised as Royalty in, denied the ability to say goodbye to his own mother after her death, threatened by people who were once his friends… You know I can go on forever.

I don’t think there’s been a moment where Loki was allowed to feel better than anyone else without immediately being shut down, denied, humbled, dehumanized, or humiliated.

So for that all to happen to him about a thousand times more in a series that was meant to uplift him… it just sucks. ‘Healthy self-worth and self- love’ he was stripped of who he was and constantly belittled, and did not stick up for himself. He just accepted everything that was said about him, and he accepted the disrespect. I don’t see how that is him having healthy self worth. He was treated horribly by those around them and instead of attempting to stick up for himself like in the previous projects he’s been in, he just accepted it. As if he felt he deserved it. He has less self worth/self love than he’s ever had.

He never got uplifted or praised or accepted or anything besides gaining new physical abilities and a new title. He’s been given a position he’s never wanted, because Loki’s always sacrificing himself. He’s always sacrificing himself the better of other characters, and other MCU plot lines. It’s what the MCU does when they get bored, or need to start a new plot.

I don’t want to see Loki be humbled. He already has been in everything he’s been in. He’s already been humiliated and made the laughingstock. I want to see him uplifted. I want to see him proud of who he is. I want to see him accepted.

I want him to realize he can be happy, even if he doesn’t belong or fit in. He can be loved for who he is.

The series did nothing of the sort, and I don’t know how people can be so unaware of that. Or if they are aware of it, I don’t know how they can accept it.

It’s not even the bare minimum “I accept you despite your flaws” no, it’s “I sort of accept you now that you’ve sacrificed yourself for me and changed every aspect of who you are, but I still do not like you as a person and I still won’t give you even the most basic respect.”

I want better for him. Not more humbling that he accepts without any complaints.

Loki I’ll always love you for who you are

[magpie-murder]

we can all agree that the mcu loki deleted scenes are good, right? which means that, logically, the show will become good if they just delete all the scenes :)

[therese-lokidottir]

Saw a girl walking around at con covered in full TVA gear. The jacket, a purse, the works. I’m not one to stop people from liking things but damn, it’s weird how the fandom is just okay with this nasty ass organization and treats it like it’s cute/silly.

I'd say this is an example of the death of media literacy, but in all honesty plenty of blame for this also falls on the one making the media.

This is a weird mess all around, I have to say starting off the in-universe the TVA is repeatedly shown to be terrible. The hurt people, they torture and destroy all for a false cause. The people working there have been manipulated to be a part of it and are horrified when they learn the truth. So, the TVA is bad right? Well, apparently not, apparently its grey and needs to keep existing because loom bulls*** and also it still needs to exists even after loom bulls*** is taken care of.

This is a problem that is with both the consumers and the makers of the product. In the story, in the thing going on in-universe at no point does the TVA do anything good or even necessary. At most they scramble around trying to put out a fire they help start. But then they go on and just keep being terrible. Deadpool 3 what to we find out, they are just leaving people to rot in the void, people who can be consider heroes and the TVA only help when it can conveniences them.

It is amazing how viewers get so hung up on the induvial character they like they ignore the story going on around them, to the point they don't even seem to realize that even those individual characters have been hurt by the TVA and what they were tricked into doing was bad actually.

As I've made this point so many times and will keep making, the TVA are fascists. Their aesthetic it directly taken from Orwell's 1984, they have used straight up nazi imagery. The TVA has used more nazi imagery then the MCU version of hydra.

I don't even think this can be call a lack of media literacy when the media makes stuff like this and then decides to sell it on a handbag, when it goes so hard into the merchandising it neglects the titular character.

[galaxythreads]

okay, here's the thing about the loki series that I came to the conclusion to a few days ago. If you want a series that explores the aftermath of the Avengers in any meaningful way (or Loki's past actions), then the series isn't for you. Unfortunately, given the timeline that they presented us with, most people who watched the show thought it would be about that (myself included). As s2e5 has shown us though, the Loki series isn't really about Loki. It's about Loki and his relationship with the characters from the TVA, mainly Mobius. If you have no interest in the two, then the show doesn't work and is extremely boring.

Unfortunately, unlike other TV series and movies, the series didn't really delve into Loki's psychology. Moon Knight had an entire episode dedicated to Marc/Steven, so did WandaVision. I think that when a series doesn't have that background dig on a character, that the audience is actually really, deeply unhappy with it. The same thing happened with the Falcon and Winter Solider that has with Loki. The audience doesn't care. Secret Invasion had the same problem. Like the plot is happening, but that's not the point. No one cares about the plot, its' just a nice back drop. We want the psychology dig. I just don't see us getting that in episode 6, though.

One of the things I was personally hoping would happen in episode 5 is that Loki would do more timeline jumping, but timeline jumping on his timeline, not gathering the TVA. I wasn't unhappy with it, but I was disappointed because I wanted to see what they could do with it. I wanted the psychology dig. But again, the Loki series isn't about Loki. It's about Loki and his relationship to the TVA.

[oceanicpoetry]

i just saw a gifset of that scene in the loki series where he does a bunch of random theatrical moves in the hopes that it will activate the time-slipping and all i could think about was 'yes this is definitely the most powerful sorcerer in asgard, the guy who studied his craft for over a millennium' and i just sighed. goodbye loki who was a multi-faceted, fully realised character. hello comic relief loki who does bizarre dance moves in front of another person fully believing that it will activate random mystical powers.

[humandisastertonystark]

So...let me get this straight again once and for all because I can't believe this isn't just a very, very bad fever dream.

After horribly killing him off in Infinity War, they decide to bring him back as a complete caricature of himself, basically making him an incompetent bumbling fool, to let their insufferable Mary Sue shine who shits all over him with the rest of the other characters for a whole damn season and then they reward him, after all this unnecessary additional torment, with the responsibility to fix the mess caused by Mary Sue, holding the timelines together for all eternity, doomed to be alone forever...something they also made him say he is the most scared of, multiple times.

How very fucking lovely

I can't believe I'm actually saying this but I wish he would've just stayed dead after IW

Also I hope everyone responsible for this, steps on Legos multiple times a day for the rest of their lifes